Michael Bay Defends Robo-Racial Stereotyping

I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, ive met more white guys who talk like that

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic, and more importantly, it's certainly not limited at all to an African American stereotype. In fact, without a doubt, I have not seen one African American talk like this, but tons of Caucasian people. When I first saw the movie, that's what I thought. They were the young punk kids who try to act cool but just come across as silly. Which they're supposed to be silly, that's point. Like Reno Wilson suggested, they downloaded K-Fed data.

As for the faces, yeah they're dumb, and probably should have been changed. But I personally don't see any resemblance at all to any person, no matter what their skin color.

Which doesn't mean I'm defending the characters themselves. While some jokes they made were funny, mostly they took up time that could've been devoted to Sideswipe or Arcee.

All in all, they weren't on screen long enough to register as anything but either annoying or funny, depending on the person. They're on screen for total about ten minutes, like a 1/14th of the run time. In fact, the limited time with each robot is a more justified criticism. If we had gotten to know them better, perhaps people wouldn't be so angry.

Just IMHO.

It's interesting to call it racial stereotyping when it isn't necessarily just one race that's doing it. If it's stereotyping at all, it is a parody of the hip-hop CULTURE...and last time I checked hip-hop wasn't a race. Being a "gangbanger" isn't exclusive to one race either...

...I kinda liken it to if Kevin Federline was doing the voice acting.

If it's offensive, then say it is and move on. As I can see it, it's just comedy in the same way that Carlos Mencia, Chris Rock, and other comedians parody their own race.

If you really want a valid opinion, ask Reno Wilson what he thought about it while he was doing the voice.

Yeah, it's a stereotype. But it's a robot. It isn't black. It isn't white. The TransFormers learned English from the internet (as stated by Prime in the first film). Go online sometime and read all the slang and various dialects people use. Skids and Mudflap just picked the vocabulary that they themselves felt suited their personalities. I actually liked the characters, I thought they were hilarious. And by the way, I know a lot of white people that speak like that. They aren't "black" phrases anymore. Like it or not, it's an urban, pop-culture vocabulary. That's it. Are they gonna be angry next that Jetfire walks with a cane and sounds like an old man? Isn't that a stereotype as well?

Kuribohfett wrote:All in all, they weren't on screen long enough to register as anything but either annoying or funny, depending on the person. They're on screen for total about ten minutes, like a 1/14th of the run time. In fact, the limited time with each robot is a more justified criticism. If we had gotten to know them better, perhaps people wouldn't be so angry.

I have to agree with that statement. They aren't on that much - and at some point, even Bumblebee smacks them around a bit, because they're being annoying.

However, I would have liked to seen more with Arcee, Sideswipe, and even Jolt, the latter having very little to do. The only time we actually get to see him in action is towards the end.

Well thankfully we didnt hear megatron going Ima firing my lazor! before firing haha. or soundwave was rickrolling the entire planet. It could been waaaay worse if they learn about us from the internet heh.

I had read all this stuff online from critics before actually seeing the movie... how these twins were so bad and stereotyping all these horrible stereotypes...

So, I was worried about the movie before seeing it.

I finally see the movie and about 3/4's of the way through I'm like "this is what all these critics are upset about? This is it? You've got to be kidding me."

I totally feel that it's "cool" right now in the eyes of critics to make a bigger deal about these robots then what they really should. They should be more upset about the lyrical content many gangsta rap artists have and how many of them promote gang activity, not these stupid Mudflap and Skids guys.

It's all about the negative hype machine. Give me a break.
That's my 2 cents.

I completely and totally agree with all the posters stating that the twins are a reflection of pop urban culture as a whole and not just a reflection of one specific societal demographic. From the start I have assumed that the twins' stupidity was characterization drawn from today's youth culture and NOT black culture. The critics and the people who assume that their behavior and actions are a derivation from "black society and culture" are wrong and they are prejudiced in their opinions of a whole community. If they assume that the twins are acting like two stupid black kids, then that is a giant insult to a huge group of people.

while there at it they might as well complain about wheelie too

I'm sorry but the Bloggers and writers who are calling this Racially sensitive are just a bunch of attention seekers. Theres MUCH MUCH worse stereotyping on Kids cartoons. I loved Skids and Mudflap, comedy relief, no different then any worthy comedy in the last few years.

people need to grow up and realize its a PG13 movie, and is not made for the SpongeBob class of Movie Goer's. I'm really sick of having everyone pick apart this movie.

It's a Bad ass Summer movie, and Bay gave us more then we probably needed but God, if this stuff is so bad, I can't believe what people think about R rated movies.

And I agree with the Other poster, the Skids/MF characters are based on Inner City youth, to claim its racism or offensive to Blacks just means you are a closet racist and assume that's what it is.

[They] never seem to understand that I make movies for people to take a ride and escape. - Michael Bay, on being unable to do anything more with his movies than crudely maneuver actors around the space he thinks explosions and special effects should occupy.

RodimalToyota wrote:I'm really sick of having everyone pick apart this movie.

That's, in essence, what critics do - pick apart the subject they're critiqing. Unfortunately, whether because their job requires it, or personality quirk, or their ideal that all films should be Sundance Festival material, they are apparently completely incapable of just sitting back and watching the show for the simple enjoyment.

i just dont see why everyone has to drag this type of stuff in everything.im sory,you can flame me if you want,but it just ruins the whole fun that this movie is suppose to be when everyone is talking negetive and pointing out every little thing that people have a problem with.

just saying,i hate stereotypes as much as the next guy,but dr.heavy b has a point,the way the high pitched voices are,they sound like little hipster 12 year olds trying to act like L.L.cool J

I honestly don't care.

Kuribohfett wrote:I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic

And what about the anti-semetic cartoons published by the nazis in the second world war? By your standards that was also not racist.

If one is going to attack ROTF for racist stereotyping then one must attack virtually every film or show with a black character in. I've never met a black guy who talks like that but on TV they ALL do, a'ight? The black guy in Panic Room talks perfectly eloquently apart from that one line where he says "what da f**ks da madder wid you?" which is totally out of character.

Really, it's double standards, a'ight yo? They banned the lil' black sambo stuff innit, but this street-cool-can't-talk-properly-staccato-speach crap is all the rage. Word.

Prime Riblet wrote: The critics and the people who assume that their behavior and actions are a derivation from "black society and culture" are wrong and they are prejudiced in their opinions of a whole community. If they assume that the twins are acting like two stupid black kids, then that is a giant insult to a huge group of people.

I agree 100%

I found them (Skidz/Mudflap) comical. Why isn't everyone upset that wheelie sounds like a stereotypical N.Y. Italian? People just need to relax about this. I have met people who talk similar to both wheelie and the skidz/mudflap duo. So what. Skidz and mudflap are just cartoon characters, they are really very slapstick. I don't think that its harmful. The movie is aimed at adults, obviously by the subject matter and language of this film. I won't take my 7 year old to see it. So I say everyone just needs to relax.

I had a group of friends that were all a stereotypes: the African "Gansta" type guy, the Preppy stuck up guy, a cowboy (from Texas) and a metal head (me) Everywhere we went we had people come up to us and ask us if what they were seeing was true; that we were all friends and hanging out together. People stereotype everything. make it a big issue. I understant the way it was in the past, but you didn't see skidz and mudflap picking cotton or anything like that (watch old bugs bunny cartoons)

Although I do understand the way people feel about this. I think its more light hearted than offensive. And they are not the only racial stereo types in that movie.

Mykltron wrote:

Kuribohfett wrote:I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic

And what about the anti-semetic cartoons published by the nazis in the second world war? By your standards that was also not racist.

Definitely agree with you with there being a lot of examples on TV and in the movies now. But IMO, there's a pretty big difference between the over exaggerated sterotypes in entertainment today and the hate propoganda the Nazis (and KKK, etc.) used. Neither are good but their intent completely different.

I'm going to break this down to you why this is racist. This is with information from my fiancee who is an African American woman with a history major and a lot of knowledge of the history of Black history, including lynchings and black stereotypes. The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans. Having people believe in these stereotypes as being the 'norm' would create a fear or distaste in the white population of the black population, keeping African Americans subjugated even though they are no longer slaves.

Mudflap and Skids had these characteristics, and Skids even had a gold tooth with some symbol on it (reflecting stereotypical black rappers), and they also acted very stupid. Now, no other robots had these physical characteristics, or were stupid. So by making these the only stupid robots, they were basically saying that 'everyone with this characteristics are stupid'. Considering that it's a stereotype of African Americans (a WELL DOCUMENTED ONE, mind you), it's like saying that African Americans are stupid. Now, it could be either that Michael Bay wasn't aware he was doing this, that he was really stupid (ok, that's a valid concern if you think about it), but it is very suspicious that they all came together into these two characters. Not to mention that they had next to no redeeming characteristics or abilities lends even more credence to the whole racism problem. They had scenes where they did something sort of important, but they existed to basically stand around and be dumb. That's the problem.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that what is the biggest problem is the combination of the actions, speech and physical characteristics is why it's racist. If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.

Ballistic90,

Everyone only looks at this as if its Blacks vs. whites. Its more of a gang banger stereotype. Are you saying then that Only black people get gold teeth or grillz? My buddy has a grill and is white. I wasn't under the impression that this was a "Black thing"

I don't see the Sambo reference. Its not similar to me. I will admit making them illiterate was a bit much, but I don't think its racist. I think it may be a negative portrayal of a lifestyle. However, jazz should have been there to mix it up a little. If he was there I don't think people would have seen this a a racist issue.

Look at those green and orange alien robots! They act vaguely like black stereotypes, therefore Michael Bay must have maliciously made them act like that because he hates black people! It's okay when the Wayans brothers make a movie explicitly black stereotypes because they're black, but when there's a vague hint of two secondary characters being stereotypes in a movie by a non-black man, it's racism! It all makes perfect sense now!

I liked the two guys its good comic relief and up to date with the world today, get over it press. Youre only helpin with ticket sales, because face it if he was bein racist, some people are sick minded and will have pay to check it out. similar to people seeing Dark Knight just because Heath was dead.

I thought we figured this out already, Bay is racist ans sexist. And him "doing it for the kids" is just a mad up excuse so he can get away with it. And a pretty damn lame one at that. I also think Wheelie was a stereotype to. Go ahead think about it for a sec and youll see what i mean. There are times and places where the hole stereotype thing fits but this wasnt one of those times.

[quote="Megatron Wolf"]I thought we figured this out already, Bay is racist ans sexist. And him "doing it for the kids" is just a mad up excuse so he can get away with it. And a pretty damn lame one at that. I also think Wheelie was a stereotype to. Go ahead think about it for a sec and youll see what i mean. There are times and places where the hole stereotype thing fits but this wasnt one of those times.[/quote

I

[quote="Megatron Wolf"]I thought we figured this out already, Bay is racist ans sexist. And him "doing it for the kids" is just a mad up excuse so he can get away with it. And a pretty damn lame one at that. I also think Wheelie was a stereotype to. Go ahead think about it for a sec and youll see what i mean. There are times and places where the hole stereotype thing fits but this wasnt one of those times.[/quote

I guess I don't understand. What is the Wheelie stereotype?

They said the same thing about Jazz. "Which Autobot did they kill? The black one!"

*scratches head* I thought Ironhide was the black one.

This is a question of culture, not race or skin color.

If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.

So we'll just ignore Sergeant Eps I guess.

Booda wrote:They said the same thing about Jazz. "Which Autobot did they kill? The black one!"

*scratches head* I thought Ironhide was the black one.

This is a question of culture, not race or skin color.

If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.

So we'll just ignore Sergeant Eps I guess.

It is a question of race, as, again, race isn't just skin color. These characteristics that I pointed out were applied to those specific robots, making them the 'black' stereotype. Robots have different colors than people do, but they are obviously the closest to the 'black' stereotype. Strangely enough, the black human characters didn't abide really by the typical stereotypes of black people, but then again there was what, 1 important black man in the whole movie?

UPDATE!: Here's a fun link. Apparently, Orci and Kurtzman, the writers for the movie, were offended by the characters.
http://www.scifiscoop.com/news/the-tran ... sm-debate/

Oh for goodness sakes. They're robots, and they're awesome. I am so damn sick of these critics. There was one on New Zealand TV the other day saying ROTF had "major plot holes" (which ok, it had one or two plot holes, but not lots of major plot holes as the retard pointed out). Although it was funny for her to point out that Transformers 3 was already underway with creation, which we all know is 110% false. But these "critics" are nothing more than a bunch of idiots that sit around and have a go at movies because they've seen every other movie ever made, and so each new movie never excites them.

Mykltron wrote:

Kuribohfett wrote:I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic

And what about the anti-semetic cartoons published by the nazis in the second world war? By your standards that was also not racist.

You are honestly going to compare propaganda to promote genocide to what is, at worst case scenario, a director being an idiot? That's ridiculous, and a completely different situation. Perhaps I misspoke with that one part of my post, but I believe my point remains as others have said in this thread. Also, I researched the whole "sambo" thing for my defense, and I personally don't see any similarity. Personally, after a third viewing I feel the only leg any one has to stand on is MAYBE Skids' face. Which, yeah, is a pretty stupid decision, but it's a pretty big stretch. Although it is true that perhaps if they did something else then it would be better. But realize that no matter how much I loved the movie I never said Bay was a good director.

TCJJ wrote:Oh for goodness sakes. They're robots, and they're awesome. I am so damn sick of these critics. There was one on New Zealand TV the other day saying ROTF had "major plot holes" (which ok, it had one or two plot holes, but not lots of major plot holes as the retard pointed out). Although it was funny for her to point out that Transformers 3 was already underway with creation, which we all know is 110% false. But these "critics" are nothing more than a bunch of idiots that sit around and have a go at movies because they've seen every other movie ever made, and so each new movie never excites them.

I'm sorry, but without the racist BS, this movie is still pretty bad. What's worse is that you're saying that this is the best we should expect? They added so many new characters and dropped them as background almost immediately. I was annoyed and bored at the 'I love you' conversations between Sam and Mikalea, almost fell asleep when they were exploring Egypt, and just... infuriated that they added in characters like Sideswipe, Jolt and the Arcee motorcycle robots that should be VERY interesting characters, but drops them almost immediately. There's a lot more, and the movie does have a lot of plot holes, like if the matrix of leadership was destroyed, then wouldn't the Fallen just least the Earth? He couldn't 'earn' it anyways, not by the movie logic. Also, there are a LOT of stars out there. If it was such a problem getting the machine on Earth to work, why not go to another star system? Then there was the inconsistent characterizations of Starscream, Megatron, and more. Just... why shouldn't we demand more? The Dark Knight was so much more than Revenge of the Fallen was, and I wanted that level of quality.

And Kuribohfett, you don't see it because you don't have to. It doesn't affect you personally, so you let it pass. I'm sorry, but when I look at stills of the twins faces, you can easily see it.

I speak jive.

Dr. Heavy B wrote:I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, I've met more white guys who talk like that

Given their asymmetrical deformed faces, their incompetence, and their exaggerated dialogue... I thought they were supposed to be inbred southeastern trailer-park white-trash posers.

When I first saw them carrying on I thought "black", and then realized that the fact I jumped to that was actually what was really racist, especially when they were so much more like 50% of the white guys I knew back home. Of course, I found those guys to be offensive in and of themselves...

Caelus wrote:

Dr. Heavy B wrote:I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, I've met more white guys who talk like that

Given their asymmetrical deformed faces, their incompetence, and their exaggerated dialogue... I thought they were supposed to be inbred southeastern trailer-park white-trash posers.

When I first saw them carrying on I thought "black", and then realized that the fact I jumped to that was actually what was really racist, especially when they were so much more like 50% of the white guys I knew back home. Of course, I found those guys to be offensive in and of themselves...

That's not necessarily racist to think it's a black stereotype, because a lot of what made up the twins was derived FROM black stereotypes, but it's racist to think that all black people are like that.

Ballistic90 wrote:The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans.

http://www.amazon.com/Ren-Stimpy-Show-Seasons-Half-ish/dp/B0009CTV4U/ref=sr_1_3?tag=seibertron07-20&ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1246158314&sr=1-3

While that may have been true a hundred years ago, you need to look at it in context today. Not every instance of "big ears, big teeth and stupid," is a black stereotype. Even putting urban slang in the mix doesn't necessarily imply blackness, since every video game, movie, TV show, and song today that's trying to be cool and hip uses that language.

In cartoons, like the Ren and Stimpy I linked above, when the artist wants to depict "stupid," the first thing they do is add big ears and big teeth. Skids and Mudflap are basically cartoons, so their look isn't surprising at all.

Ballistic90 wrote:And Kuribohfett, you don't see it because you don't have to. It doesn't affect you personally, so you let it pass. I'm sorry, but when I look at stills of the twins faces, you can easily see it.

First off, you don't know me from the next person on the internet, so you can't say that it doesn't affect me personally.

Second, racism affects everyone personally, as a human. So I don't just let racism "pass." To me, it's fairly offensive that you would suggest that I would do that. Just because I don't see it here doesn't mean I ignore it elsewhere.

I could look at a tree and see a danish if I tried hard enough. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that the fact that this issue is not clear cut proves this isn't a simple case of "Song of the South" racism. There's a good case that it's not there at all.

I heard about this. Personally it gave each robot a certain character and that made it better. We live in a world of stereotyping and we have to overcome it. Michael Bay shouldn't have to defend this "Robo-Racial" issue. Excellent movie and excellent characters! Thanks for giving the nation something fun to look forward during hard times!

karellan wrote:

Ballistic90 wrote:The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans.

http://www.amazon.com/Ren-Stimpy-Show-Seasons-Half-ish/dp/B0009CTV4U/ref=sr_1_3?tag=seibertron07-20&ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1246158314&sr=1-3

While that may have been true a hundred years ago, you need to look at it in context today. Not every instance of "big ears, big teeth and stupid," is a black stereotype. Even putting urban slang in the mix doesn't necessarily imply blackness, since every video game, movie, TV show, and song today that's trying to be cool and hip uses that language.

In cartoons, like the Ren and Stimpy I linked above, when the artist wants to depict "stupid," the first thing they do is add big ears and big teeth. Skids and Mudflap are basically cartoons, so their look isn't surprising at all.

The fact that 'other people are doing it' doesn't excuse it or explain it away at all. In fact, you could be point out that a surprising number of cartoons over the years have been racist, which is probably more true than anyone is willing to admit. You're also forgetting the gold tooth that kind of pushes it way beyond that train of thought. Gold teeth are associated with rappers more than any other group.


"First off, you don't know me from the next person on the internet, so you can't say that it doesn't affect me personally.

Second, racism affects everyone personally, as a human. So I don't just let racism "pass." To me, it's fairly offensive that you would suggest that I would do that. Just because I don't see it here doesn't mean I ignore it elsewhere.

I could look at a tree and see a danish if I tried hard enough. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that the fact that this issue is not clear cut proves this isn't a simple case of "Song of the South" racism. There's a good case that it's not there at all."

First, I can tell that you are a white man by what you just said. To you, it's theoretical. To others, it's real life. It doesn't affect everyone the same way. You want to see how it affects people? Here. Let me help you REALLY understand.

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/caricature/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/men.htm
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/more/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/cartoons/

Although I will note that it's more 'big lips' generally in these examples, big teeth is also a big part of it.


"I heard about this. Personally it gave each robot a certain character and that made it better. We live in a world of stereotyping and we have to overcome it. Michael Bay shouldn't have to defend this "Robo-Racial" issue. Excellent movie and excellent characters! Thanks for giving the nation something fun to look forward during hard times! "

A dumb black stereotype isn't a 'flavor'. He should have to defend it. Along with the rest of the crap in the movie.

[quote="Ballistic90"]


"First off, you don't know me from the next person on the internet, so you can't say that it doesn't affect me personally.

Second, racism affects everyone personally, as a human. So I don't just let racism "pass." To me, it's fairly offensive that you would suggest that I would do that. Just because I don't see it here doesn't mean I ignore it elsewhere.

I could look at a tree and see a danish if I tried hard enough. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that the fact that this issue is not clear cut proves this isn't a simple case of "Song of the South" racism. There's a good case that it's not there at all."

First, I can tell that you are a white man by what you just said. To you, it's theoretical. To others, it's real life. It doesn't affect everyone the same way. You want to see how it affects people? Here. Let me help you REALLY understand.

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/caricature/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/men.htm
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/more/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/cartoons/

You have got to be kidding me. Talk about hubris. I never said it was theoretical at all. Never even implied it. You made a judgement based on your interpretation of what you think I said, which is pretty damn bad on its own. And I got news for you, college professor, I don't think any of those look like the twins at all. So your attempts to "educate" me and help me "understand" have failed. Although I'm sure you just think I'm not looking at it properly, the way you do. You think I don't know how hurtful it is to people? You think I'm that insensitive? Shows what you know. Stop making judgements based on me for defending what is, in my mind, not racist. Or am I just one of the affected masses to you?

Kuribohfett wrote:

Ballistic90 wrote:

"First off, you don't know me from the next person on the internet, so you can't say that it doesn't affect me personally.

Second, racism affects everyone personally, as a human. So I don't just let racism "pass." To me, it's fairly offensive that you would suggest that I would do that. Just because I don't see it here doesn't mean I ignore it elsewhere.

I could look at a tree and see a danish if I tried hard enough. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that the fact that this issue is not clear cut proves this isn't a simple case of "Song of the South" racism. There's a good case that it's not there at all."

First, I can tell that you are a white man by what you just said. To you, it's theoretical. To others, it's real life. It doesn't affect everyone the same way. You want to see how it affects people? Here. Let me help you REALLY understand.

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/caricature/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/men.htm
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/more/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/cartoons/

You have got to be kidding me. Talk about hubris. I never said it was theoretical at all. Never even implied it. You made a judgement based on your interpretation of what you think I said, which is pretty damn bad on its own. And I got news for you, college professor, I don't think any of those look like the twins at all. So your attempts to "educate" me and help me "understand" have failed. Although I'm sure you just think I'm not looking at it properly, the way you do. You think I don't know how hurtful it is to people? You think I'm that insensitive? Shows what you know. Stop making judgements based on me for defending what is, in my mind, not racist. Or am I just one of the affected masses to you?

Considering that you just posted back this fast, it's obvious you just looked at the pictures and didn't actually read the first, and most important, link. So... what do you have to argue with? That you know more about racism than people that study it? That you don't want to have to read up on it at all? I don't talk about rocket science because I haven't read anything on it.

Actually, I did. Nice to know you made another judgement because you think I'm stupid. And once again, how do you know what I know about racism and what I don't? Answer is, you don't. Just because I read your link doesn't mean I have to agree with you, in fact it furthers my opinion that the Twins are just stupid designs and not racist.

You're too pompous and high on your own degree to listen to other people's opinions, so maybe you shouldn't be on a public forum. No one here is defending racism.

At least in the Spanish dubbed version I saw, no character sounds the most remotely racist (One of the twins (or both) happens to be dubbed by the guy who voices Donatello in TMNT, the main character in Bleach, one guy from Naruto (Gaara)). The only thing objectionable left in the movie are the sex jokes (Even Wheelie saying bitch is cut!).

There's nothing to worry about here. People are just being too sensitive. Hell, a black voice actor was one of the twins.

Skidz and Mudflap were my favorite characters of the film. Their dialogue just flowed, and they were pretty funny.

Kuribohfett wrote:Actually, I did. Nice to know you made another judgement because you think I'm stupid. And once again, how do you know what I know about racism and what I don't? Answer is, you don't. Just because I read your link doesn't mean I have to agree with you, in fact it furthers my opinion that the Twins are just stupid designs and not racist.

You're too pompous and high on your own degree to listen to other people's opinions, so maybe you shouldn't be on a public forum. No one here is defending racism.

You're the pompous one. First, that link had about an hour of reading material. Did you skim through it? How about you PROVE it? Define the 'coon' stereotype. I'm waiting. You can find it somewhere else, I don't care, but until you can tell me what that is, then you don't know near enough about racial stereotypes to even defend yourself at this point. Do yourself a favor, and either stop, or read enough on this.

And yes, it is a problem when people put this crap into a movie.

I finally saw the movie today. I enjoyed it. I am an African-American male who studied media driven oppression as the focus of my communication major at Denison University (granville, ohio).

The argument that the characters in question are racist is false. They are problematic but not racist. There are negative portrayals of all races in these films especially white people. The issue with the negative black stereotype in the movie (we can call it the poor socioeconomic stereotype- not able to read or speak well) is that there are very few or zero positive images to counter the negative ones. When you see a white person portrayed poorly you will see a white hero (or genius, or middle class citizen), but minorities are type cast into stereotypical roles all the time in media and they are not counter balanced with positive images.

All that said, I found skids and mudflap to be funny and well timed in their comedic actions. They were deliberate characters, Bay made them. It was not malicious in intent, but it is problematic none the less. The issue is perpetuating stereotypes that lay the underlying seeds of oppression. Also, never say its just a movie. I work in advertising now, and these images and messages are deliberate and powerful. The Chevy Camaro is selling like crazy thanks to this movie, clearly its images affect people. Portrayals of characters on the screen do impact people. All that said, really enjoyed the movie. I found the violence more problematic to the kids seeing the film, much more so than the characterizations of the robots.

Am I the only one (because I mentioned it before and no one caught onto it) that Jetfire was also "stereotyped" as an old fuddy duddy with a British accent?

I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?

Burn wrote:Am I the only one (because I mentioned it before and no one caught onto it) that Jetfire was also "stereotyped" as an old fuddy duddy with a British accent?

I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?

That is very true too. It's actually a Scottish accent, to be precise. He's still portrayed better than the twins because he had redeeming characteristics, like his sense of duty and pride, and self sacrifice.

"You know what my father was? He was a wheel. The first wheel! You know what he turned into? Nothing! But he did so with pride!"

I think it is a type of racism, but I don't think it's as painful as the twins.

Burn wrote:I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?

Because it's a lot easier for critics to call out a movie for being racist against black people since that's the most common form of racism.

As for the twins being useless, I couldn't have been the only one who laughed his/her ass off when one of the twins (I forget which) said he was like a ninja as he hung from a ledge.

TurbofireJames wrote:I finally saw the movie today. I enjoyed it. I am an African-American male who studied media driven oppression as the focus of my communication major at Denison University (granville, ohio).

The argument that the characters in question are racist is false. They are problematic but not racist. There are negative portrayals of all races in these films especially white people. The issue with the negative black stereotype in the movie (we can call it the poor socioeconomic stereotype- not able to read or speak well) is that there are very few or zero positive images to counter the negative ones. When you see a white person portrayed poorly you will see a white hero (or genius, or middle class citizen), but minorities are type cast into stereotypical roles all the time in media and they are not counter balanced with positive images.

All that said, I found skids and mudflap to be funny and well timed in their comedic actions. They were deliberate characters, Bay made them. It was not malicious in intent, but it is problematic none the less. The issue is perpetuating stereotypes that lay the underlying seeds of oppression. Also, never say its just a movie. I work in advertising now, and these images and messages are deliberate and powerful. The Chevy Camaro is selling like crazy thanks to this movie, clearly its images affect people. Portrayals of characters on the screen do impact people. All that said, really enjoyed the movie. I found the violence more problematic to the kids seeing the film, much more so than the characterizations of the robots.

I'm still saying that the twins are racist, because they fit the stereotypes of 'sambo' and 'coon' way too much to be coincidence. And there's also the fact that an enormous amount of the reviewers picked up immediately, even if they didn't have a huge breadth of knowledge on the subject, and even a lot of white people. This isn't just a few sensitive people, even the WRITERS acknowledged it. I mean, come on now.

TurbofireJames, Well said. Bravo. I couldn't agree more.

I understand, and respect what your saying. The term racist is thrown around a lot though.

rac·ism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

I will agree that skids and mudflaps are problematic and make people uncomfortable. What is interesting though is that they are still autobots, and they show a lot of character in their battle against devastator. There is something novel about a character who is a "black stereotype" or seemingly of a lower socioeconomic status breaking the mold and showing a lot heart, compassion, and a very strong will when the chips are down. I studied oppression in media, so I dont disagree with your argument but i think this case is an interesting study and calling it racist outright does not do the complexity of the situation justice.

Very well thought out. I agree with you that Skids and Mudflap needed to do a lot more to redeem themselves simply to avoid being useless. THEY should've taken down Devastator themselves, from the inside out, instead of giving another another Con kill to the US Army.