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News Credits: 402 · by **Mkall** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:06 pm

Member ShGarland_1383 has found an article in Cinematical where Michael Bay responds to calls about racial steriotyping in Revenge of The Fallen:

Among the criticisms leveled at Michael Bay's rock 'em, sock 'em Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen are charges that two of Bay's secondary robot characters, Mudflap and Skids, promote offensive racial stereotypes. The director doesn't disagree -- he just doesn't see anything wrong with it.

Lest you think that these critics are being hopelessly, knee-jerkingly PC, consider the following: The comic-relief robots have enormous jug ears and bug eyes. One of them has a gold tooth. They speak in a high-pitched, rapid-fire drawl that calls to mind Chris Tucker and the Wayans brothers (as reported here by Erik Davis, the voices were done by black actor Reno Wilson, and comedian and voice talent Tom Kenny, who also voices Spongebob Squarepants). Their "street" dialogue runs along the line of one of them suggesting "popping a cap" in another robot.

"We're just putting more personality in," Bay told the Associated Press. "I don't know if it's stereotypes - they are robots, by the way. These are the voice actors. This is kind of the direction they were taking the characters and we went with it."

Mudflap and Skids are hardly the only thing that critics are finding wrong with Bay's sequel, but in a film that's chock-a-block full of things to hate, it still stands out as one of the most egregious botches. In her review in the New York Times, critic Manohla Dargis wrote that the characters speak with "conspicuously cartoonish, so-called black voices that indicate that minstrelsy remains as much in fashion in Hollywood as when, well, Jar Jar Binks was set loose by George Lucas."

"I purely did it for kids," the director said. "Young kids love these robots, because it makes it more accessible to them."

See the original article here.

News Credits: 1 · by **Heavy B** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:21 pm

I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, ive met more white guys who talk like that

News Credits: 1 · by **Kuribohfett** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:28 pm

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic, and more importantly, it's certainly not limited at all to an African American stereotype. In fact, without a doubt, I have not seen one African American talk like this, but tons of Caucasian people. When I first saw the movie, that's what I thought. They were the young punk kids who try to act cool but just come across as silly. Which they're supposed to be silly, that's point. Like Reno Wilson suggested, they downloaded K-Fed data.

As for the faces, yeah they're dumb, and probably should have been changed. But I personally don't see any resemblance at all to any person, no matter what their skin color.

Which doesn't mean I'm defending the characters themselves. While some jokes they made were funny, mostly they took up time that could've been devoted to Sideswipe or Arcee.

All in all, they weren't on screen long enough to register as anything but either annoying or funny, depending on the person. They're on screen for total about ten minutes, like a 1/14th of the run time. In fact, the limited time with each robot is a more justified criticism. If we had gotten to know them better, perhaps people wouldn't be so angry.

Just IMHO.

News Credits: 2 · by **First-Aid** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:30 pm

It's interesting to call it racial stereotyping when it isn't necessarily just one race that's doing it. If it's stereotyping at all, it is a parody of the hip-hop CULTURE...and last time I checked hip-hop wasn't a race. Being a "gangbanger" isn't exclusive to one race either...

...I kinda liken it to if Kevin Federline was doing the voice acting.

If it's offensive, then say it is and move on. As I can see it, it's just comedy in the same way that Carlos Mencia, Chris Rock, and other comedians parody their own race.

If you really want a valid opinion, ask Reno Wilson what he thought about it while he was doing the voice.

News Credits: 97 · by **Savage** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Yeah, it's a stereotype. But it's a robot. It isn't black. It isn't white. The TransFormers learned English from the internet (as stated by Prime in the first film). Go online sometime and read all the slang and various dialects people use. Skids and Mudflap just picked the vocabulary that they themselves felt suited their personalities. I actually liked the characters, I thought they were hilarious. And by the way, I know a lot of white people that speak like that. They aren't "black" phrases anymore. Like it or not, it's an urban, pop-culture vocabulary. That's it. Are they gonna be angry next that Jetfire walks with a cane and sounds like an old man? Isn't that a stereotype as well?

News Credits: 3 · by **Archanubis** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:34 pm

Kuribohfett wrote:All in all, they weren't on screen long enough to register as anything but either annoying or funny, depending on the person. They're on screen for total about ten minutes, like a 1/14th of the run time. In fact, the limited time with each robot is a more justified criticism. If we had gotten to know them better, perhaps people wouldn't be so angry.

I have to agree with that statement. They aren't on that much - and at some point, even Bumblebee smacks them around a bit, because they're being annoying.

However, I would have liked to seen more with Arcee, Sideswipe, and even Jolt, the latter having very little to do. The only time we actually get to see him in action is towards the end.

by **Lastjustice** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:48 pm

Well thankfully we didnt hear megatron going Ima firing my lazor! before firing haha. or soundwave was rickrolling the entire planet. It could been waaaay worse if they learn about us from the internet heh.

by **oldskooltf** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:08 pm

I had read all this stuff online from critics before actually seeing the movie... how these twins were so bad and stereotyping all these horrible stereotypes...

So, I was worried about the movie before seeing it.

I finally see the movie and about 3/4's of the way through I'm like "this is what all these critics are upset about? This is it? You've got to be kidding me."

I totally feel that it's "cool" right now in the eyes of critics to make a bigger deal about these robots then what they really should. They should be more upset about the lyrical content many gangsta rap artists have and how many of them promote gang activity, not these stupid Mudflap and Skids guys.

It's all about the negative hype machine. Give me a break.
That's my 2 cents.

by **Prime Riblet** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:10 pm

I completely and totally agree with all the posters stating that the twins are a reflection of pop urban culture as a whole and not just a reflection of one specific societal demographic. From the start I have assumed that the twins' stupidity was characterization drawn from today's youth culture and NOT black culture. The critics and the people who assume that their behavior and actions are a derivation from "black society and culture" are wrong and they are prejudiced in their opinions of a whole community. If they assume that the twins are acting like two stupid black kids, then that is a giant insult to a huge group of people.

by **Ultra Markus** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:18 pm

while there at it they might as well complain about wheelie too

News Credits: 5 · by **RodimalToyota** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:21 pm

I'm sorry but the Bloggers and writers who are calling this Racially sensitive are just a bunch of attention seekers. Theres MUCH MUCH worse stereotyping on Kids cartoons. I loved Skids and Mudflap, comedy relief, no different then any worthy comedy in the last few years.

people need to grow up and realize its a PG13 movie, and is not made for the SpongeBob class of Movie Goer's. I'm really sick of having everyone pick apart this movie.

It's a Bad ass Summer movie, and Bay gave us more then we probably needed but God, if this stuff is so bad, I can't believe what people think about R rated movies.

And I agree with the Other poster, the Skids/MF characters are based on Inner City youth, to claim its racism or offensive to Blacks just means you are a closet racist and assume that's what it is.

by **Achiever** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:26 pm

[They] never seem to understand that I make movies for people to take a ride and escape. - Michael Bay, on being unable to do anything more with his movies than crudely maneuver actors around the space he thinks explosions and special effects should occupy.

News Credits: 3 · by **Archanubis** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:29 pm

RodimalToyota wrote:I'm really sick of having everyone pick apart this movie.

That's, in essence, what critics do - pick apart the subject they're critiqing. Unfortunately, whether because their job requires it, or personality quirk, or their ideal that all films should be Sundance Festival material, they are apparently completely incapable of just sitting back and watching the show for the simple enjoyment.

by **primeoptimus** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:37 pm

i just dont see why everyone has to drag this type of stuff in everything.im sory,you can flame me if you want,but it just ruins the whole fun that this movie is suppose to be when everyone is talking negetive and pointing out every little thing that people have a problem with.

just saying,i hate stereotypes as much as the next guy,but dr.heavy b has a point,the way the high pitched voices are,they sound like little hipster 12 year olds trying to act like L.L.cool J

News Credits: 6 · by **Jacob P. Galvatron** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:00 pm

I honestly don't care.

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:11 pm

Kuribohfett wrote:I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic

And what about the anti-semetic cartoons published by the nazis in the second world war? By your standards that was also not racist.

If one is going to attack ROTF for racist stereotyping then one must attack virtually every film or show with a black character in. I've never met a black guy who talks like that but on TV they ALL do, a'ight? The black guy in Panic Room talks perfectly eloquently apart from that one line where he says "what da f**ks da madder wid you?" which is totally out of character.

Really, it's double standards, a'ight yo? They banned the lil' black sambo stuff innit, but this street-cool-can't-talk-properly-staccato-speach crap is all the rage. Word.

by **madhatprime** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:52 pm

Prime Riblet wrote: The critics and the people who assume that their behavior and actions are a derivation from "black society and culture" are wrong and they are prejudiced in their opinions of a whole community. If they assume that the twins are acting like two stupid black kids, then that is a giant insult to a huge group of people.

I agree 100%

I found them (Skidz/Mudflap) comical. Why isn't everyone upset that wheelie sounds like a stereotypical N.Y. Italian? People just need to relax about this. I have met people who talk similar to both wheelie and the skidz/mudflap duo. So what. Skidz and mudflap are just cartoon characters, they are really very slapstick. I don't think that its harmful. The movie is aimed at adults, obviously by the subject matter and language of this film. I won't take my 7 year old to see it. So I say everyone just needs to relax.

I had a group of friends that were all a stereotypes: the African "Gansta" type guy, the Preppy stuck up guy, a cowboy (from Texas) and a metal head (me) Everywhere we went we had people come up to us and ask us if what they were seeing was true; that we were all friends and hanging out together. People stereotype everything. make it a big issue. I understant the way it was in the past, but you didn't see skidz and mudflap picking cotton or anything like that (watch old bugs bunny cartoons)

Although I do understand the way people feel about this. I think its more light hearted than offensive. And they are not the only racial stereo types in that movie.

News Credits: 198 · by **DevastaTTor** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:18 pm

Mykltron wrote:
Kuribohfett wrote:I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic

And what about the anti-semetic cartoons published by the nazis in the second world war? By your standards that was also not racist.

Definitely agree with you with there being a lot of examples on TV and in the movies now. But IMO, there's a pretty big difference between the over exaggerated sterotypes in entertainment today and the hate propoganda the Nazis (and KKK, etc.) used. Neither are good but their intent completely different.

by **Ballistic90** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:53 pm

I'm going to break this down to you why this is racist. This is with information from my fiancee who is an African American woman with a history major and a lot of knowledge of the history of Black history, including lynchings and black stereotypes. The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans. Having people believe in these stereotypes as being the 'norm' would create a fear or distaste in the white population of the black population, keeping African Americans subjugated even though they are no longer slaves.

Mudflap and Skids had these characteristics, and Skids even had a gold tooth with some symbol on it (reflecting stereotypical black rappers), and they also acted very stupid. Now, no other robots had these physical characteristics, or were stupid. So by making these the only stupid robots, they were basically saying that 'everyone with this characteristics are stupid'. Considering that it's a stereotype of African Americans (a WELL DOCUMENTED ONE, mind you), it's like saying that African Americans are stupid. Now, it could be either that Michael Bay wasn't aware he was doing this, that he was really stupid (ok, that's a valid concern if you think about it), but it is very suspicious that they all came together into these two characters. Not to mention that they had next to no redeeming characteristics or abilities lends even more credence to the whole racism problem. They had scenes where they did something sort of important, but they existed to basically stand around and be dumb. That's the problem.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that what is the biggest problem is the combination of the actions, speech and physical characteristics is why it's racist. If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.

by **madhatprime** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:22 pm

Ballistic90,

Everyone only looks at this as if its Blacks vs. whites. Its more of a gang banger stereotype. Are you saying then that Only black people get gold teeth or grillz? My buddy has a grill and is white. I wasn't under the impression that this was a "Black thing"

I don't see the Sambo reference. Its not similar to me. I will admit making them illiterate was a bit much, but I don't think its racist. I think it may be a negative portrayal of a lifestyle. However, jazz should have been there to mix it up a little. If he was there I don't think people would have seen this a a racist issue.

News Credits: 2 · by **Autobobby1** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:29 pm

Look at those green and orange alien robots! They act vaguely like black stereotypes, therefore Michael Bay must have maliciously made them act like that because he hates black people! It's okay when the Wayans brothers make a movie explicitly black stereotypes because they're black, but when there's a vague hint of two secondary characters being stereotypes in a movie by a non-black man, it's racism! It all makes perfect sense now!

News Credits: 12 · by **nemesis-prime** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:36 pm

I liked the two guys its good comic relief and up to date with the world today, get over it press. Youre only helpin with ticket sales, because face it if he was bein racist, some people are sick minded and will have pay to check it out. similar to people seeing Dark Knight just because Heath was dead.

News Credits: 8 · by **Megatron Wolf** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:38 pm

I thought we figured this out already, Bay is racist ans sexist. And him "doing it for the kids" is just a mad up excuse so he can get away with it. And a pretty damn lame one at that. I also think Wheelie was a stereotype to. Go ahead think about it for a sec and youll see what i mean. There are times and places where the hole stereotype thing fits but this wasnt one of those times.

by **Prime Riblet** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:43 pm

[quote="Megatron Wolf"]I thought we figured this out already, Bay is racist ans sexist. And him "doing it for the kids" is just a mad up excuse so he can get away with it. And a pretty damn lame one at that. I also think Wheelie was a stereotype to. Go ahead think about it for a sec and youll see what i mean. There are times and places where the hole stereotype thing fits but this wasnt one of those times.[/quote

I

by **Prime Riblet** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:44 pm

[quote="Megatron Wolf"]I thought we figured this out already, Bay is racist ans sexist. And him "doing it for the kids" is just a mad up excuse so he can get away with it. And a pretty damn lame one at that. I also think Wheelie was a stereotype to. Go ahead think about it for a sec and youll see what i mean. There are times and places where the hole stereotype thing fits but this wasnt one of those times.[/quote

I guess I don't understand. What is the Wheelie stereotype?