Pictorial Review - Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Leader Class Ultra Magnus

Burn wrote:The cost of importing Takara products into Australia works out to roughly the same price of buying Hasbro figures in Australian retail stores.

So ... yeah.

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

That ... seems kinda pointless. Just get Hasbro's UM if you want Minimus.

-Kanrabat- wrote:For the time being, I think I will not ruin my Takara figure by gooping all over poor ol' Alpha Trion.

william-james88 wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:
Sometimes. If we are lucky. Not always though and usually it isn't. I'm talking about SRP though. And honestly, I think the idea that costs would be different in Japan is hard to trust. All the toys are made in China or Vietnam. If anything wouldn't it be more expensive to have them shipped to the states?

Well for the talk of the extra cost due to importing, this below comes straight from BBTS for their alternity line listing:

Please Note: These items are bought at retail in Japan and marked up before being sold to us - the price is high for an Alternity, but it is the only option.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Rated X wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Wouldnt it make more sense to buy the Hasbro version and paint the rims and very minor paint apps ? That is, unless you like the red thighs or the slightly different shade of blue that much...

Sabrblade wrote:There's also different colored plastics involved:

Rated X wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Still too much money for just a Minimus Ambus figure

You know, if Japanese prices were more comparable in retail I would actually say get Takara and Hasbro and sell the Hasbro. But I mean, I hate the mark up TT does for some paint apps. Yeah they do look better and for deluxes I dont mind paying $10 more for awesome decos...but leader class that are almost $30 more? nah.

Paying 10$ more for a deluxe, or 30$ more for a leader ammount to paying 50% more. It's the same thing. Still, it may look bigger for you Americans.

No its not the same thing. This is not a math thing. Its a price gouging thing. Its clearly about how much more money can Takara justify adding to the price for a few extra swipes of paint. If $10 is the cost, then Takara UM should only cost $55. And if $30 is the cost, than every takara deluxe figure should cost $45. The few extra swipes of paint only have one cost to the factory no matter how big a piece of plastic they are painted on.

Engaging subject. But to put it simply......everything in Japan costs higher. Using as analogy, in the USA, a 12 episode BD compilation of lets say Samurai Girls/Fate StayNight would cost you $ 60.00. In Japan, thats just (1) episode/disc. They really do jack up the prices with all the bling that comes with it.

You also have to contend with packaging. Different fonts. Different instruction manuals plus those sales gimmicks where you scan the codes. That comes as extra cost for the advertisement sales gimmicks.

The extra apps also entail reassignment of painting resources. Now, it's more complicated with the programming of computer controlled resources. Of course, you add more paint. More paint......extra cost.

But it's done on the same plant? Yes it is but the product is programmed for a different market. Tomy isn't even considering the overseas market for their product. Iirc, in one of TFYuki tweets or was it in a Hobby magazine, the designers mentioned the foreign market as an after though when they repurposed Slingshot from another mold instead of A-B. So no huffing and puffing will ever get the prices to be at par with the USA domestic release.

Some of what you say has the potential to make sense, but I would be inclined to think the factory workers have the paint machine programming down to a science. The only difference is the size of the piece of plastic being painted. Some takara deluxes that get the shiny paint treatment actually have more paint apps than the larger takara voyager figures which never get shiny paint job, just a different shade of color plastic. Yet the bigger ones with less extra paint apps get a bigger price gouge.

And then sometimes you get the real suspect takara items...

Jetfire- Hasbro has chrome weapons while takara has no paint on the weapons, shouldnt Hasbro cost more ?

Springer- same paint apps different shades of green and yellow plastic. Where is the extra cost ?

Grapple -same figure but twice the price for a painted yellow head and an autobot tampo ?

Its a load of BS honestly. Which brings me to my next argument...been collecting CHUG since 2007 and still dont get this imaginary "Asian market". Especially when Takara has a tendency to replicate paint schemes designed by American animators for an American cartoon that Japan got a voiceover of. I used to argue with board members back in 2009 about Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge. Their response was other than botcon the US would never get them in retail because thats the "Asian market". Needless to say they ate their words eventually. But then the US gets Black Shadow (a Japanese character) from Hasbro but Takara never makes one. Shouldnt that have been the Asian market? And how about skids? Everyone anticipated a G1 accurate darker blue Takara skids that never happened. Instead takara decided to do Rollbar, an AOE homage of a non transformer vehicle in a movie made for western audiences. How is that the "Asian market" ? And then theres slingshot and wildrider who Hasbro introduced first before Takara. Once again, the "Asian market" doesnt seem so Asian all of a sudden. Wasnt the western market version supposed to be IDW Alpha Bravo ? Im surprised Takara beat Hasbro in announcing a deluxe CW Groove ? We all know the inevitable Hasbro version will come as an online exclusive on American websites. Ok Ive given enough examples, the bottom line is that there is no "Asian Market". Its all a scam to get collectors to buy online and spend more money for more desired paint schemes. And my arguement from the very beginning more desired doesnt necessarily mean more costly to produce by the factory. You cant tell me silver rims, some knee paint, and a few other small apps costs $30 more to program or produce. Its price gouging. Theyre coming out the same mold as the hasbro version and being shipped straight to American online retailers. So in reality Japans higher cost of living has nothing to do with the price difference. The Hasbro version is just as much an Asian import as the takara version. To make it even worse, the factory is in China, and the figures being dubbed "Japanese" have never even set foot on Japanese soil. Yet they are being sold at Japanese prices out of the same shipping container used to ship hasbro versions the same route overseas from China. And they try to justify it with 25 cents more worth paint applied by a guy they paid 2 dollars a day dirt cheap Chinese labor. Now do you see where Im going with this ? The Takara price difference is total BS just like the "Asian market".

Rated X wrote:price gouging.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:At least, based on Canadian price of 60$CAN+tx for a Hasbro leader, the Takara one at Amiami is around 55$CAN.
Add Shipping and the cost OF THE TAKARA IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE HASBRO WITH TAXES.

TAKARA IS SAME PRICE AS HASBRO FOR BETTER PAINTS APS!!!

Once again, privileged Americans live in another world, with their cheaper everything and all-the-time free shipping.

Well Japan has those used underwear dispenser.....nothing can top that )

Sabrblade wrote:Not sure why the term "Asian market" keeps getting tossed around when Takara only handles the Japanese market while Hasbro Asia covers all of the rest of Asia.

Burn wrote:Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

Rated X wrote:A lot of stereotyping going on in Hastak corporate about exactly who collects transformers and who just plays with them on the sidewalk.

william-james88 wrote:For all this America rules talk, here's the counter argument written by Americans:

fenrir72 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:

Mkall wrote:Still too much money for just a Minimus Ambus figure

You know, if Japanese prices were more comparable in retail I would actually say get Takara and Hasbro and sell the Hasbro. But I mean, I hate the mark up TT does for some paint apps. Yeah they do look better and for deluxes I dont mind paying $10 more for awesome decos...but leader class that are almost $30 more? nah.

Paying 10$ more for a deluxe, or 30$ more for a leader ammount to paying 50% more. It's the same thing. Still, it may look bigger for you Americans.

No its not the same thing. This is not a math thing. Its a price gouging thing. Its clearly about how much more money can Takara justify adding to the price for a few extra swipes of paint. If $10 is the cost, then Takara UM should only cost $55. And if $30 is the cost, than every takara deluxe figure should cost $45. The few extra swipes of paint only have one cost to the factory no matter how big a piece of plastic they are painted on.

Engaging subject. But to put it simply......everything in Japan costs higher. Using as analogy, in the USA, a 12 episode BD compilation of lets say Samurai Girls/Fate StayNight would cost you $ 60.00. In Japan, thats just (1) episode/disc. They really do jack up the prices with all the bling that comes with it.

You also have to contend with packaging. Different fonts. Different instruction manuals plus those sales gimmicks where you scan the codes. That comes as extra cost for the advertisement sales gimmicks.

The extra apps also entail reassignment of painting resources. Now, it's more complicated with the programming of computer controlled resources. Of course, you add more paint. More paint......extra cost.

But it's done on the same plant? Yes it is but the product is programmed for a different market. Tomy isn't even considering the overseas market for their product. Iirc, in one of TFYuki tweets or was it in a Hobby magazine, the designers mentioned the foreign market as an after though when they repurposed Slingshot from another mold instead of A-B. So no huffing and puffing will ever get the prices to be at par with the USA domestic release.

Some of what you say has the potential to make sense, but I would be inclined to think the factory workers have the paint machine programming down to a science. The only difference is the size of the piece of plastic being painted. Some takara deluxes that get the shiny paint treatment actually have more paint apps than the larger takara voyager figures which never get shiny paint job, just a different shade of color plastic. Yet the bigger ones with less extra paint apps get a bigger price gouge.

And then sometimes you get the real suspect takara items...

Jetfire- Hasbro has chrome weapons while takara has no paint on the weapons, shouldnt Hasbro cost more ?

Springer- same paint apps different shades of green and yellow plastic. Where is the extra cost ?

Grapple -same figure but twice the price for a painted yellow head and an autobot tampo ?

Its a load of BS honestly. Which brings me to my next argument...been collecting CHUG since 2007 and still dont get this imaginary "Asian market". Especially when Takara has a tendency to replicate paint schemes designed by American animators for an American cartoon that Japan got a voiceover of. I used to argue with board members back in 2009 about Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge. Their response was other than botcon the US would never get them in retail because thats the "Asian market". Needless to say they ate their words eventually. But then the US gets Black Shadow (a Japanese character) from Hasbro but Takara never makes one. Shouldnt that have been the Asian market? And how about skids? Everyone anticipated a G1 accurate darker blue Takara skids that never happened. Instead takara decided to do Rollbar, an AOE homage of a non transformer vehicle in a movie made for western audiences. How is that the "Asian market" ? And then theres slingshot and wildrider who Hasbro introduced first before Takara. Once again, the "Asian market" doesnt seem so Asian all of a sudden. Wasnt the western market version supposed to be IDW Alpha Bravo ? Im surprised Takara beat Hasbro in announcing a deluxe CW Groove ? We all know the inevitable Hasbro version will come as an online exclusive on American websites. Ok Ive given enough examples, the bottom line is that there is no "Asian Market". Its all a scam to get collectors to buy online and spend more money for more desired paint schemes. And my arguement from the very beginning more desired doesnt necessarily mean more costly to produce by the factory. You cant tell me silver rims, some knee paint, and a few other small apps costs $30 more to program or produce. Its price gouging. Theyre coming out the same mold as the hasbro version and being shipped straight to American online retailers. So in reality Japans higher cost of living has nothing to do with the price difference. The Hasbro version is just as much an Asian import as the takara version. To make it even worse, the factory is in China, and the figures being dubbed "Japanese" have never even set foot on Japanese soil. Yet they are being sold at Japanese prices out of the same shipping container used to ship hasbro versions the same route overseas from China. And they try to justify it with 25 cents more worth paint applied by a guy they paid 2 dollars a day dirt cheap Chinese labor. Now do you see where Im going with this ? The Takara price difference is total BS just like the "Asian market".

If we are using the amiami/hobbysearch price reference, which I also failed to mention

amiami: Y 5650 (30%) at retail= Y 8100
hobbysearch: Y 6375 at retail= Y 7000

Price difference? Beats me.

You can huff and puff and blow the house down with your rant of an imaginary market. The Japan market IS different from the Asian Market. We can go on to geographics where Japan is but that's a marketing strat.Some TF stuff don't get released in Japan and Asia at the same time or vice versa. Pricing is waaaaaaaaaaaay different.

My post makes perfect sense. It's you who can't comprehend. In Japan, the standard of living is different to the USA. Everything costs more there. Their "hobby market" is different ther than good old US of A.

It is Kanrabat who does make sense when the American side of the Pacific keeps on complaining about prices when the domestic market is more price friendly than Japan or Asia. Here, you guys complain of lack of paint apps or in Metroplex's case, lack of guns and expect it to be priced less than the Tomy version?

In an ideal world, I wish both sides of the Pacific would release the same version at the same pricing but wer ARE in the REAL world where we don't always get what we want.

Also surprising that you complain of Hasbro's predatory pricing and still can afford tons of overpriced 3rd party figs. Don't hear you rave against their price range.

Va'al wrote: [snip]

Generator_G1 wrote:[snip]

Rated X wrote:price gouging

BlueBefore wrote:

Rated X wrote:price gouging

Again, you make yourself look absolutely ridiculous by calling it that.

BlueBefore wrote:

Rated X wrote:A lot of stereotyping going on in Hastak corporate about exactly who collects transformers and who just plays with them on the sidewalk.

When filthy rich white manchildren complain about how capitalism is oppressing them I can't help but to laugh.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

Rated X wrote:price gouging

Again, you make yourself look absolutely ridiculous by calling it that.

The whole pricing issue should belong in a totally different thread, who's with me?

Rated X wrote:There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rated X wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Wouldnt it make more sense to buy the Hasbro version and paint the rims and very minor paint apps ? That is, unless you like the red thighs or the slightly different shade of blue that much...

There's also different colored plastics involved:

BlueBefore wrote:

Rated X wrote:There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon.

KnightStrike wrote:America isn't all rich. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt. It affects all races. Could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

Rated X wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

Rated X wrote:There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon.

You do realize that the G1 cartoon was created by American animators for an American audience financed by an American company to market American versions of the Diaclone line, right ?

Japan got OUR cartoon DUBBED in their language. It wasnt until 1988 that Japan took over the G1 cartoon as pretenders and action masters made the brand take a downward spiral in America.

Rated X wrote:
With all that being said, cost wise shouldnt the Hasbro version be the one selling for $80 and the Takara for $45 ???

-Kanrabat- wrote:Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

Rated X wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

Rated X wrote:There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon.

You do realize that the G1 cartoon was created by American animators for an American audience financed by an American company to market American versions of the Diaclone line, right ?

BlueBefore wrote:

KnightStrike wrote:America isn't all rich. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt. It affects all races. Could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

Even America's poorest are well off compared to a great deal of the people on this planet.
So poor and in debt that you can afford hundreds of dollars of children's toys?
I live in America and last time I checked racial equality isn't a thing there.
This is why I complain when people say that transformers made for poorer people shouldn't be made. It shows the lack of consideration of the welfare of others that seems almost inherent in fandom.

BlueBefore wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

Asking X to stop is like walking in front of a train and asking it to stop. Ain't going to happen no matter what you do. He's really desperate for attention and he knows he's going to get it here.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:You got most of that right: like many cartoons of the 80's the animation was outsourced to Japan, Korea and other Asian countries. That includes Transformers which had no less than 4 studios: Toei (currently the largest in Japan), AKOM (the worst of the bunch), Shinsa and a fourth one from the Philippines. Sunbow and Marvel may have been US-based but all the animating itself was done overseas.

That does not make Transformers an anime, mind you

Bradimus wrote:Then why keep engaging him?

Rated X wrote:The arguement IS that Takara is taking your poor mans toy and adding 25 cents worth of paint and doubling the price.

BlueBefore wrote:

Bradimus wrote:Then why keep engaging him?

I am very charitable.

BlueBefore wrote:

KnightStrike wrote:America isn't all rich. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt. It affects all races. Could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

Even America's poorest are well off compared to a great deal of the people on this planet.
So poor and in debt that you can afford hundreds of dollars of children's toys?
I live in America and last time I checked racial equality isn't a thing there.
This is why I complain when people say that transformers made for poorer people shouldn't be made. It shows the lack of consideration of the welfare of others that seems almost inherent in fandom.

As for getting back to discussing Transformers I like Combiner Wars legion class Magnus much more than the leader class figure. Mostly because I don't like IDW and prefer to have a Cab that's not fixed to the trailer.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rated X wrote:
With all that being said, cost wise shouldnt the Hasbro version be the one selling for $80 and the Takara for $45 ???

Where in the nine hells do you take your prices from? BBTS? If that's the case, it dosent count because BBTS must recoup an extra shipping cost from Asia because the Takara one don't come from the Hasbro warehouse. (Don't argue that point, please)

Based on BBTS, UM cost 47$US+10$US shipping. So, 57$ total. I dunno about taxes, but you may have to pay some, being online or retail.

From Amiami, never mind the suggested retail price, it cost 5650JPY, meaning 47.37US. At worst, add 15 or 20$ of shipping.

So. basic price:
Hasbro: 47$.
Takara: 47$.
EXACT SAME FAWKING PRICE.
Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

KnightStrike wrote:Rant

munkimus prime wrote:It's funny I'm going for the version with Ambus and I'm not even up to date with the Comics so I'm not even sure who he is besides he 's the guy inside Magnus.

shajaki wrote: