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[BlueBefore]

For all this America rules talk, here's the counter argument written by Americans:

Because one privileged white rich democrat complaining about how the gov't doesn't give him enough free stuff speaks for all Americans?

[TheMuffin]

Wow. Really loving those hollow legs and back. Really sets off the snap on wheels and lack of articulation. If Hasbro gets any cheaper they're going to start doing card back vac form packaging for the larger figures. Like the Big Lot KOs from the mid 00's they seem to be trying to emulate.

[Rated X]

Still too much money for just a Minimus Ambus figure

You know, if Japanese prices were more comparable in retail I would actually say get Takara and Hasbro and sell the Hasbro. But I mean, I hate the mark up TT does for some paint apps. Yeah they do look better and for deluxes I dont mind paying $10 more for awesome decos...but leader class that are almost $30 more? nah.

Paying 10$ more for a deluxe, or 30$ more for a leader ammount to paying 50% more. It's the same thing. Still, it may look bigger for you Americans.

No its not the same thing. This is not a math thing. Its a price gouging thing. Its clearly about how much more money can Takara justify adding to the price for a few extra swipes of paint. If $10 is the cost, then Takara UM should only cost $55. And if $30 is the cost, than every takara deluxe figure should cost $45. The few extra swipes of paint only have one cost to the factory no matter how big a piece of plastic they are painted on.

Engaging subject. But to put it simply......everything in Japan costs higher. Using as analogy, in the USA, a 12 episode BD compilation of lets say Samurai Girls/Fate StayNight would cost you $ 60.00. In Japan, thats just (1) episode/disc. They really do jack up the prices with all the bling that comes with it.

You also have to contend with packaging. Different fonts. Different instruction manuals plus those sales gimmicks where you scan the codes. That comes as extra cost for the advertisement sales gimmicks.

The extra apps also entail reassignment of painting resources. Now, it's more complicated with the programming of computer controlled resources. Of course, you add more paint. More paint......extra cost.

But it's done on the same plant? Yes it is but the product is programmed for a different market. Tomy isn't even considering the overseas market for their product. Iirc, in one of TFYuki tweets or was it in a Hobby magazine, the designers mentioned the foreign market as an after though when they repurposed Slingshot from another mold instead of A-B. So no huffing and puffing will ever get the prices to be at par with the USA domestic release.

Some of what you say has the potential to make sense, but I would be inclined to think the factory workers have the paint machine programming down to a science. The only difference is the size of the piece of plastic being painted. Some takara deluxes that get the shiny paint treatment actually have more paint apps than the larger takara voyager figures which never get shiny paint job, just a different shade of color plastic. Yet the bigger ones with less extra paint apps get a bigger price gouge.

And then sometimes you get the real suspect takara items...

Jetfire- Hasbro has chrome weapons while takara has no paint on the weapons, shouldnt Hasbro cost more ?

Springer- same paint apps different shades of green and yellow plastic. Where is the extra cost ?

Grapple -same figure but twice the price for a painted yellow head and an autobot tampo ?

Its a load of BS honestly. Which brings me to my next argument...been collecting CHUG since 2007 and still dont get this imaginary "Asian market". Especially when Takara has a tendency to replicate paint schemes designed by American animators for an American cartoon that Japan got a voiceover of. I used to argue with board members back in 2009 about Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge. Their response was other than botcon the US would never get them in retail because thats the "Asian market". Needless to say they ate their words eventually. But then the US gets Black Shadow (a Japanese character) from Hasbro but Takara never makes one. Shouldnt that have been the Asian market? And how about skids? Everyone anticipated a G1 accurate darker blue Takara skids that never happened. Instead takara decided to do Rollbar, an AOE homage of a non transformer vehicle in a movie made for western audiences. How is that the "Asian market" ? And then theres slingshot and wildrider who Hasbro introduced first before Takara. Once again, the "Asian market" doesnt seem so Asian all of a sudden. Wasnt the western market version supposed to be IDW Alpha Bravo ? Im surprised Takara beat Hasbro in announcing a deluxe CW Groove ? We all know the inevitable Hasbro version will come as an online exclusive on American websites. Ok Ive given enough examples, the bottom line is that there is no "Asian Market". Its all a scam to get collectors to buy online and spend more money for more desired paint schemes. And my arguement from the very beginning more desired doesnt necessarily mean more costly to produce by the factory. You cant tell me silver rims, some knee paint, and a few other small apps costs $30 more to program or produce. Its price gouging. Theyre coming out the same mold as the hasbro version and being shipped straight to American online retailers. So in reality Japans higher cost of living has nothing to do with the price difference. The Hasbro version is just as much an Asian import as the takara version. To make it even worse, the factory is in China, and the figures being dubbed "Japanese" have never even set foot on Japanese soil. Yet they are being sold at Japanese prices out of the same shipping container used to ship hasbro versions the same route overseas from China. And they try to justify it with 25 cents more worth paint applied by a guy they paid 2 dollars a day dirt cheap Chinese labor. Now do you see where Im going with this ? The Takara price difference is total BS just like the "Asian market".

If we are using the amiami/hobbysearch price reference, which I also failed to mention

amiami: Y 5650 (30%) at retail= Y 8100
hobbysearch: Y 6375 at retail= Y 7000

Price difference? Beats me.

You can huff and puff and blow the house down with your rant of an imaginary market. The Japan market IS different from the Asian Market. We can go on to geographics where Japan is but that's a marketing strat.Some TF stuff don't get released in Japan and Asia at the same time or vice versa. Pricing is waaaaaaaaaaaay different.

My post makes perfect sense. It's you who can't comprehend. In Japan, the standard of living is different to the USA. Everything costs more there. Their "hobby market" is different ther than good old US of A.

It is Kanrabat who does make sense when the American side of the Pacific keeps on complaining about prices when the domestic market is more price friendly than Japan or Asia. Here, you guys complain of lack of paint apps or in Metroplex's case, lack of guns and expect it to be priced less than the Tomy version?

In an ideal world, I wish both sides of the Pacific would release the same version at the same pricing but wer ARE in the REAL world where we don't always get what we want.

Also surprising that you complain of Hasbro's predatory pricing and still can afford tons of overpriced 3rd party figs. Don't hear you rave against their price range.

Dude, as I stated earlier, the figures come from China and never touch Japanese soil. It has nothing to do with economics in the US or Japan. Its one big scam. The bottom line is they sell Takara figures for a lot more money in the US because they CAN. The real test would be to see how much hasbro versions are going for in Japanese toy stores, if there even available. If a kids toy costs $80 in Japan, fine thats Japan. I dont live in Japan. Here in the US it costs $45. A different shade of blue and 25 cents worth of extra paint DOES NOT double the production costs. Its not economics, its price gouging. Im not buying from Japan so I shouldnt be paying Japanese toy prices. Im buying from a multicultural corporation based out of China and ships ships toys all over the world. So the same toy should cost the same price equivilant in its respective economy where ever you travel regardless of the color of plastic. If it costs $45 dollars in TRU, then I should be paying the US equivalent of $45 in Japan, not $80. I can understand adding an extra $10 for the extra paint apps and desired color plastic, (like the deluxes) but not an extra $30. Thats price gouging, plain and simple. Hastak needs to decide whether the product they produce is considered a toy or a collectible ? How can it be priced higher when its the same damn thing in a different color ? Either give us toy prices or collectible prices ? No more US vs. Japan excuses. There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe. Theyre just pimping the crap out of the western hemisphere.

[Agamemnon]

[snip]

[snip]

Wow....there was that other pic with Classics OP that I thought made these two look really good together in alt mode. But these pics actually make CW UM's cab look too small...

[BlueBefore]

price gouging

Again, you make yourself look absolutely ridiculous by calling it that.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

price gouging

Again, you make yourself look absolutely ridiculous by calling it that.

The whole pricing issue should belong in a totally different thread, who's with me?

[KnightStrike]

A lot of stereotyping going on in Hastak corporate about exactly who collects transformers and who just plays with them on the sidewalk.

When filthy rich white manchildren complain about how capitalism is oppressing them I can't help but to laugh.

How in the bloody nine Hells have you turned this into a race thing? Are you seriously claiming anyone who has an issue over prices is a "filthy rich White"? America isn't that great anymore for everyone bud and believe we aren't all rich, far from it. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt is the where a good deal of us are and it effects all races, so take the race card off the table and could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

[KnightStrike]

price gouging

Again, you make yourself look absolutely ridiculous by calling it that.

The whole pricing issue should belong in a totally different thread, who's with me?

I whole heartedly back you

[BlueBefore]

There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon. Besides that Takara has to compete with tons of other toy robot makers in Japan. There is very much demand for certain paint apps and colours. Hasbro has no real competition in the US.

[Rated X]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Wouldnt it make more sense to buy the Hasbro version and paint the rims and very minor paint apps ? That is, unless you like the red thighs or the slightly different shade of blue that much...

There's also different colored plastics involved:

And to play devils advocate, Hasbro used an extra color plastic (red) to make the trailer multi-colored while Takara molded the whole trailer in blue. Doesent more colors mean more time and money invested ? Thats the excuse given for the price of extra paint apps. Does it not apply to base colors too ?

Since all leader class figures cost the same, lets compare the differences in color and paint apps of Jetfire.

1. Same color white (or a very close shade certainly not more expensive plastic)

2. Minor paint app differences on the figure itself, but overall the same amount of paint used. (just in different places)

3. The chromed red accessories on the Hasbro version. Love it or hate it, Hasbro took not one but two extra paint steps on the acessories. First they chromed them, then they dyed the chrome red. (applying colored chrome is a two step process just like removing it) Meanwhile Takara just gave us naked red plastic. (which we just happen to like better because it is G1 cartoon accurate)

With all that being said, cost wise shouldnt the Hasbro version be the one selling for $80 and the Takara for $45 ???

[Moosey]

I'm personally going with Hasbro's since it's cheaper and has Minimus Ambus, but I may paint in the smaller details. Plus red thighs don't matter THAT much to me.

[Rated X]

There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon.

You do realize that the G1 cartoon was created by American animators for an American audience financed by an American company to market American versions of the Diaclone line, right ?

Japan got OUR cartoon DUBBED in their language. It wasnt until 1988 that Japan took over the G1 cartoon as pretenders and action masters made the brand take a downward spiral in America.

[BlueBefore]

America isn't all rich. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt. It affects all races. Could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

Even America's poorest are well off compared to a great deal of the people on this planet.
So poor and in debt that you can afford hundreds of dollars of children's toys?
I live in America and last time I checked racial equality isn't a thing there.
This is why I complain when people say that transformers made for poorer people shouldn't be made. It shows the lack of consideration of the welfare of others that seems almost inherent in fandom.

As for getting back to discussing Transformers I like Combiner Wars legion class Magnus much more than the leader class figure. Mostly because I don't like IDW and prefer to have a Cab that's not fixed to the trailer.

[BlueBefore]

There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon.

You do realize that the G1 cartoon was created by American animators for an American audience financed by an American company to market American versions of the Diaclone line, right ?

Japan got OUR cartoon DUBBED in their language. It wasnt until 1988 that Japan took over the G1 cartoon as pretenders and action masters made the brand take a downward spiral in America.

That's a pretty big sting of non-sequiturs you got there. Also love how you assume if I knew the history of the brand (which I did) I would agree with your argument. Which is yet another non-sequitur. Got any more you want to throw my way? I don't think you met your quota.

[-Kanrabat-]

With all that being said, cost wise shouldnt the Hasbro version be the one selling for $80 and the Takara for $45 ???

Where in the nine hells do you take your prices from? BBTS? If that's the case, it dosent count because BBTS must recoup an extra shipping cost from Asia because the Takara one don't come from the Hasbro warehouse. (Don't argue that point, please)

Based on BBTS, UM cost 47$US+10$US shipping. So, 57$ total. I dunno about taxes, but you may have to pay some, being online or retail.

From Amiami, never mind the suggested retail price, it cost 5650JPY, meaning 47.37US. At worst, add 15 or 20$ of shipping.

So. basic price:
Hasbro: 47$.
Takara: 47$.
EXACT SAME FAWKING PRICE.
Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

[BlueBefore]

Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

Asking X to stop is like walking in front of a train and asking it to stop. Ain't going to happen no matter what you do. He's really desperate for attention and he knows he's going to get it here.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

There is NO Japanese market for certain colors or more paint apps. Its a myth. We all love the G1 cartoon accuracy on both sides of the globe.

Most Americans haven't even seen the G1 cartoon.

You do realize that the G1 cartoon was created by American animators for an American audience financed by an American company to market American versions of the Diaclone line, right ?

You got most of that right: like many cartoons of the 80's the animation was outsourced to Japan, Korea and other Asian countries. That includes Transformers which had no less than 4 studios: Toei (currently the largest in Japan), AKOM (the worst of the bunch), Shinsa and a fourth one from the Philippines. Sunbow and Marvel may have been US-based but all the animating itself was done overseas.

That does not make Transformers an anime, mind you

[Rated X]

America isn't all rich. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt. It affects all races. Could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

Even America's poorest are well off compared to a great deal of the people on this planet.
So poor and in debt that you can afford hundreds of dollars of children's toys?
I live in America and last time I checked racial equality isn't a thing there.
This is why I complain when people say that transformers made for poorer people shouldn't be made. It shows the lack of consideration of the welfare of others that seems almost inherent in fandom.

That was NEVER the arguement.

The arguement IS that Takara is taking your poor mans toy and adding 25 cents worth of paint and doubling the price.

When I say Hasbro versions shouldnt even exist, I say that because I think YOU deserve the right to buy a takara colored leader class figure in your local walmart for $44.99.

Its that simple. There is no imaginary "Asian or Japanese market" that justifies non G1 accurate versions be produced for maybe a dollar less in production costs. Its a total scam. Let the little kids play with G1 cartoon accurate colored leader class figures that cost $44.99. Im sure they wont complain if Hasbros inferior paint schemes were to disappear.

All im saying is that an international standardization of the figures color schemes should also include an international standardization of the retail price.

Save the price gouging for ebay. Theres already enough price gouging going on in shipping costs. People who live in BFE always get screwed. Hastaks lies about production costs based on an imaginary Asian market just adds insult to injury.

[Bradimus]

Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

Asking X to stop is like walking in front of a train and asking it to stop. Ain't going to happen no matter what you do. He's really desperate for attention and he knows he's going to get it here.

Then why keep engaging him?

Burn, I know you hate splitting off tangents that derail threads but this has gotten way out of hand. I agree with everyone who would like the price discussion moved someplace else.

Back on topic...

I don't see the big deal with Magnus' back. The hollowness of the legs are covered by the sides of the trailer, and who cares about the hollow bottom of the back of the cab? It would have been nice if the wheels folded in against the back, but they don't. As for the hole around the neck, Springer and Sandstorm have the same problem. Maybe Minimus Ambus helps fill that in, maybe he doesn't. The reviewer did not show a comparison shot from above of what Magnus looks like with and without Ambus. Without there is a minor gap. Big friggin' deal. I see no need for a third party fix to something that doesn't need fixing. This isn't super soft garbage rubber antennae that had to be replaced on Superion's head.

Magnus looks extremely poseable, more so than the MP version, so that makes me happy. He's extremely poseable because of the gaps in his legs. I wish Hasbro went with all blue sides to the trailer, but they didn't. Oh well. And I can paint the rims myself if I want to, it's not a big deal. That's what silver Sharpies are for. For those of you who can afford the Takara version, enjoy! Barring a video review disaster I will be quite satisfied that I am finally getting a proper Ultra Magnus for my CHUG collection.

Now if only Hasbro made a leader class Astrotrain...

[BlueBefore]

You got most of that right: like many cartoons of the 80's the animation was outsourced to Japan, Korea and other Asian countries. That includes Transformers which had no less than 4 studios: Toei (currently the largest in Japan), AKOM (the worst of the bunch), Shinsa and a fourth one from the Philippines. Sunbow and Marvel may have been US-based but all the animating itself was done overseas.

That does not make Transformers an anime, mind you

You are giving him too much credit by explaining these things to him.

[BlueBefore]

Then why keep engaging him?

I am very charitable.

[-Kanrabat-]

The arguement IS that Takara is taking your poor mans toy and adding 25 cents worth of paint and doubling the price.

No, it's not anymore.
Same price, but Takara have better deco. That's for main mass retail lines.
Don'T count the exclusive limited lines, please.

If you have to rant, just blame Hasbro for being cheap-ass on paint aps since 7 years or so.

[Bradimus]

Then why keep engaging him?

I am very charitable.

I bow to your generosity.

[KnightStrike]

America isn't all rich. Taxed to bloody death and sinking in medical debt. It affects all races. Could we please get back on topic to TF toys.

Even America's poorest are well off compared to a great deal of the people on this planet.
So poor and in debt that you can afford hundreds of dollars of children's toys?
I live in America and last time I checked racial equality isn't a thing there.
This is why I complain when people say that transformers made for poorer people shouldn't be made. It shows the lack of consideration of the welfare of others that seems almost inherent in fandom.

As for getting back to discussing Transformers I like Combiner Wars legion class Magnus much more than the leader class figure. Mostly because I don't like IDW and prefer to have a Cab that's not fixed to the trailer.

You know what, you are on this forum as well bud. Why are you using internet and electricity when people in parts of Africa and Asia don't even have clean water? Some one, some where always has it worse, does that mean no one has a right to say anything without your approval of their situation or that we should all just spend money without a care? Guess its the fault of all us "rich white manchildren" as you put it. We collect toys, this is supposed to be fun and an escape from the crap that is daily life, not to have someone come on the forums and start dragging race into everything and chastising us for our hobby, especially when its the same bloody hobby they apparently engage in since they are on the same forum. I am sort of surprised no mod has stepped in top get this thread back online and I will probably get myself in trouble for voicing my opinion, but I don't care as I am done with this forum. I have better things to do with my time than get insulted.

[Rated X]

With all that being said, cost wise shouldnt the Hasbro version be the one selling for $80 and the Takara for $45 ???

Where in the nine hells do you take your prices from? BBTS? If that's the case, it dosent count because BBTS must recoup an extra shipping cost from Asia because the Takara one don't come from the Hasbro warehouse. (Don't argue that point, please)

Based on BBTS, UM cost 47$US+10$US shipping. So, 57$ total. I dunno about taxes, but you may have to pay some, being online or retail.

From Amiami, never mind the suggested retail price, it cost 5650JPY, meaning 47.37US. At worst, add 15 or 20$ of shipping.

So. basic price:
Hasbro: 47$.
Takara: 47$.
EXACT SAME FAWKING PRICE.
Now, would you kindly stop your pointless rant?

My price for the hasbro version of $44.99 comes from the walmart down the street just saw armada megatron there yesterday. And yes my $80 takara price comes from BBTS. Remember us Americans that buy in bulk quantities pretty much get free shipping or dirt cheap. My pile of loot starts with a base UPS charge of 7.49 for the first item and adds a buck or two for each additional item based on weight. Shipping $1000 worth of transformers in packages never comes out to more than $20-25. If you look at the price difference between walmart and BBTS, its practically retail. They make their profit by buying in bulk from Hasbro. And we know Takara figures come from the same factory in China and get shipped to BBTS in the same shipping crate WITH the hasbro stuff. Do you really believe they pay to ship it to Japan first, only to reship it to America and pay shipping twice ? That would be incredibly stupid. A company smart enough to create an imaginary market to justify price gouging wouldnt waste their money double shipping from port to port. So I feel pretty safe to conclude that BBTS is making profit on their Takara imports not by upselling, but by buying in bulk. With that being said BBTS is pretty much retail for Takara products in America. Places like robot kingdom and chimungmung only lower the prices $15-20 to attract American buyers who would otherwise be deterred by outrageous shipping costs. They can afford to do this because once again they BUY IN BULK. Its really a simple concept, im suprised your failing to grasp it. I sell you 80 units at retail price but ship you a crate of 100 units. Those 20 free units are your profit making margin. It has nothing to do with profit on sales of each figure individually. That extra couple bucks BBTS adds to the retail price pretty much just covers the bulk shipping they expect most hardcore collectors to pay for through the pile of loot feature. It actually hurts BBTS when you just buy one figure and ship it for $7.49 because theyre not saving money on combined shipping. They want you to buy one of those 20 free units they got and combine it with your "loot" so they make straight profit minus maybe a buck for the combined shipping increase. So I dont know where youre getting this Takara Ultra Magnus costs only $47 (same as hasbro) Im not sure if youre doing some weird math calculation based on profit margin guesses, cost of living, or whatever. Or can I (not you) actually go online somewhere RIGHT NOW and buy a TAKARA ultra magnus and have it SHIPPED TO MIAMI, FLORIDA for only $47 in US currency plus standard shipping fees ? If yes, please enlighten me with the link...and provide proof that your foreign currency conversions are accurate. Ive never heard of Amiami. Sounds TGTBT It sounds like your website is just doing what Chimungmung an Robot Kingdom do. It just appears they got a better bulk deal so they can undersell them. Sounds more like they got the "family deal" if you ask me...

And while you say americans whine and complain about Takaras higher prices, that in no way compares to the amount of complaining foreigners complain about shipping fees. For every American complaint about Takaras prices, theres like 10 complaints on here about "customs fees". OMG are they really that bad ? Theres got to be a way to circumvent the system. You should see the creative ways Miamis Cuban population finds to beat the Embargo and the fees associated with both import and export. They dont whine about it, they do something about it.