Rodimus Prime wrote:I'm a little surprised Sentinel is not getting more votes. Not only was he THE pivotal character in DoTM, but he had a good design, alt mode and a great voice actor. But I guess that's just my opinion.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
A lot of Star Trek fans also hate how Sentinel disgraced and distorted the meaning behind Spock's dying words.Deadput wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:I'm a little surprised Sentinel is not getting more votes. Not only was he THE pivotal character in DoTM, but he had a good design, alt mode and a great voice actor. But I guess that's just my opinion.
Most casual fans I know hate Sentinel because he killed Ironhide.
They don't care if he is a well written character or not.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:A lot of Star Trek fans also hate how Sentinel disgraced and distorted the meaning behind Spock's dying words.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
It was intentional to have Leonard Nimoy besmirch his most beloved role of all time? Ouch.Deadput wrote:Sabrblade wrote:A lot of Star Trek fans also hate how Sentinel disgraced and distorted the meaning behind Spock's dying words.
While I understand that I feel like that was intentional though.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:It was intentional to have Leonard Nimoy besmirch his most beloved role of all time? Ouch.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
I would think if it was intentional Nimoy would have refused to say the line. Unless he didn't think it was a detriment to the line or the character of Spock and it's just another pointless thing some fans are bellyaching about. And I guess just because a character is good it doesn't mean he can be a fan favorite.Sabrblade wrote:It was intentional to have Leonard Nimoy besmirch his most beloved role of all time? Ouch.Deadput wrote:Sabrblade wrote:A lot of Star Trek fans also hate how Sentinel disgraced and distorted the meaning behind Spock's dying words.
While I understand that I feel like that was intentional though.
Peter Cullen objected to several of his own lines in DOTM and AOE, yet he was overruled and (after some mental conditioning on his part) had to say them anyway.Rodimus Prime wrote:I would think if it was intentional Nimoy would have refused to say the line.Sabrblade wrote:It was intentional to have Leonard Nimoy besmirch his most beloved role of all time? Ouch.Deadput wrote:Sabrblade wrote:A lot of Star Trek fans also hate how Sentinel disgraced and distorted the meaning behind Spock's dying words.
While I understand that I feel like that was intentional though.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Those 2 are not the same. Cullen's bread and butter is Optimus Prime. It's the character he's most famous for. Nimoy voiced Sentinel simply because he was related to Bay and Bay asked him to do it. The only thing I can think of is Nimoy not wanting to break the contract, but really how hard is it to get out of that, if the line was a big deal to him?Peter Cullen objected to several of his own lines in DOTM and AOE, yet he was overruled and (after some mental conditioning on his part) had to say them anyway.
They're still Spock dying words, which are sacred to a lot of Star Trek fans. Taking them out of context and using them in a negative, even downright villainous, light is what bothered those fans.Rodimus Prime wrote:Those 2 are not the same. Cullen's bread and butter is Optimus Prime. It's the character he's most famous for. Nimoy voiced Sentinel simply because he was related to Bay and Bay asked him to do it. The only thing I can think of is Nimoy not wanting to break the contract, but really how hard is it to get out of that, if the line was a big deal to him?Peter Cullen objected to several of his own lines in DOTM and AOE, yet he was overruled and (after some mental conditioning on his part) had to say them anyway.
Personally, I thought it was a nice homage, even if the line was used in the complete opposite situation. It was still appropriate to Sentinel's intentions.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:They're still Spock dying words, which are sacred to a lot of Star Trek fans. Taking them out of context and using them in a negative, even downright villainous, light is what bothered those fans.
It's fine if you don't agree, but understand their perspective, at least.
Deadput the angry fan wrote:"it's just a movie quote nothing to blow a fuse over"
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
I try to. I'm not a Trekkie though, so I can't relate. I do comprehend that the character's sacrifice was an important moment in the franchise, making that particular line more meaningful, and that they view using it in DoTM as sacrilege, especially by the same person who played Spock. Do Trekkies blame Nimoy?It's fine if you don't agree, but understand their perspective, at least.
Indeed. The death of Spock, Star Trek's most popular character of the time, in The Wrath of Khan was a bold move that both shocked and touched tons of Trek fans back then, similar to how the death of Optimus Prime in the '86 movie affected many kids, only with Spock it was adults who were affected too. His death was one of the most powerful and moving moments in Star Trek history up to that point, and still holds a lot of emotional weight to this day. Helps that it happened in what's not only considered the best Stark Trek film ever, but also a pretty darn good movie, in general, in and of itself, full of rich characterization, compelling performances, and thought-provoking messages that, when taken altogether, has made people consider the film to be almost "Shakespearean".Rodimus Prime wrote:I try to. I'm not a Trekkie though, so I can't relate. I do comprehend that the character's sacrifice was an important moment in the franchise, making that particular line more meaningful,It's fine if you don't agree, but understand their perspective, at least.
The most ire I've seen from Trek fans about the line's misuse was either directed at the movie itself, or directed squarely at Bay himself, as people are wont to do in general when it comes to Michael Bay films that they don't like (it's not just us TF fans who do this, but fans of other franchises/interests as well, such as history buffs who hated the Pearl Harbor movie). Of course, I'm sure some still recognize that there are/were others at fault besides Bay, like the writers and such.Rodimus Prime wrote:and that they view using it in DoTM as sacrilege, especially by the same person who played Spock. Do Trekkies blame Nimoy?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
He planned to wipe out humanity and destroy Earth to rebuild Cybertron. Premeditated global mass murder qualifies as evil don't you think? Even though as was stated in DoTM Earth was a pre-planned meeting place for Sentinel and Megatron "so many years ago." I haven't read any other movieverse support material so I don't know if it was ever explained if there was life on this planet when that decision was made. If we go by Bayverse chronology it had to be after the Star Harvester was built by The Fallen and by then there was sentient life here so that means Sentinel made a conscious decision to wipe out the entire population of a planet when he could have found an uninhabited planet to use. Or maybe as it was said, they needed slaves to help rebuild. Man I wish Bayverse wasn't such a jumbled mess story-wise.Michael Alex Kawa wrote:Also in a way was Sentinel really "evil", he just wanted to save his planet and his race from extinction and as he explained "You simply fail to understand that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
I doubt the Autobots would have approved.Sure from a human perspective he would seem like the "big ol' bad guy", but if you were a Cybertronian he very well could have been your savior.
I agree that the line fit well with Sentinel's intentions but I think it was written after Nimoy's involvement was decided. As Sabrblade said, it's what he's most famous for. Not the line per se, but the event (Spock's death) that's associated with it.I thought the line was used perfectly in both context of his motives and as a cool homage.
He wasn't there when Lockdown killed Ratchet.Swoop77 wrote:I voted for Ratchet. Loved him in the first one, and enjoyed his look and brief glimpses in the series. I hated his outright murder in AoE, especially by Fraiser.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
I forgot the word "there". Attinger wasn't there when Lockdown killed Ratchet. Savoy and other Cemetery Wind soldiers were, but not Attinger.Swoop77 wrote:Maybe I'm thinking of when they caught him on the docks I guess. I just remember him pleading for his life saying he was a medic. I've only seen AoE once.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Why are we so against the concept of heroes dying?Swoop77 wrote:I voted for Ratchet. Loved him in the first one, and enjoyed his look and brief glimpses in the series. I hated his outright murder in AoE, especially by Fraiser.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
There's a difference between a character dying and a character being murdered in cold blood, er, oil. The latter is what he didn't like.Deadput wrote:Why are we so against the concept of heroes dying?Swoop77 wrote:I voted for Ratchet. Loved him in the first one, and enjoyed his look and brief glimpses in the series. I hated his outright murder in AoE, especially by Fraiser.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum
Registered users: Bing [Bot], Glyph, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Majestic-12 [Bot], Zordon