Optimus vs Transit Fight Released to Promote Digital Release of Transformers ROTB

Optimus: "Where is it!?"

Me: "Where is what?"

It's been years and years since I popped in a DVD/BD and watch the special features.

Sabrblade wrote:Optimus: "Where is it!?"

Me: "Where is what?"

It. He means it.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of this scene! Transit's design is pretty cool

There are 2 concepts shown in this video of Transit. The flat, low-poly version is the one with the bug eye that the (iirc, Japanese?) bio card hinted. The more polished (with more polys & lighting FX applied) version is an unfamiliar design for me.... but it looks more boring/generic to me.

Quantum Surge wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Optimus: "Where is it!?"

Me: "Where is what?"

It. He means it.

We'll likely hear in the full scene, but a synopsis of the scene had them fighting and Transit taunted Optimus by saying he'd destroyed "it", it being the ship Transit came to earth on. The Decepticons basically sent Transit to mock the fact that Optimus was stuck on Earth and couldn't get back to Cybertron to continue to fight the war.

Bounti76 wrote:

Quantum Surge wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Optimus: "Where is it!?"

Me: "Where is what?"

It. He means it.

We'll likely hear in the full scene, but a synopsis of the scene had them fighting and Transit taunted Optimus by saying he'd destroyed "it", it being the ship Transit came to earth on. The Decepticons basically sent Transit to mock the fact that Optimus was stuck on Earth and couldn't get back to Cybertron to continue to fight the war.

Just imagine how wild it would be if Optimus was talking about the AllSpark.

Sabrblade wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:

Quantum Surge wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Optimus: "Where is it!?"

Me: "Where is what?"

It. He means it.

We'll likely hear in the full scene, but a synopsis of the scene had them fighting and Transit taunted Optimus by saying he'd destroyed "it", it being the ship Transit came to earth on. The Decepticons basically sent Transit to mock the fact that Optimus was stuck on Earth and couldn't get back to Cybertron to continue to fight the war.

Just imagine how wild it would be if Optimus was talking about the AllSpark.

Or a book not literally starring the lowest US coin filled with wisdom.

Seems like it was missing some dialogue after the "I'll destroy you* *then I'll go smell boys". Beast wars voice actors lucked out on not being given time of the day for this.

Having now seen the full deleted scene, the Transit fight would have been awesome, and the test audiences saying it was "too dark" is utterly ridiculous. Even with the Maximal opening, this could have been in the film.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Having now seen the full deleted scene, the Transit fight would have been awesome, and the test audiences saying it was "too dark" is utterly ridiculous. Even with the Maximal opening, this could have been in the film.

WHO are those "test audiences?"

Because way too often, they are so, SO wrong.

Like for example, they preferred the "Hollywood cliché" ending for I Am Legend rather than the real and thought provocative one.

Ah man this is a real shame to have been left out.

Marks a very clear departure from Bayverse Prime as well (I know they're meant to be the same, but let's be real, the casual audience don't care about detailed continuity anymore); willingness to negotiate and peacefully resolve a conflict, and not in permanent godmode against anyone except the main antagonist.

Helps set a different tone for the movie compared all the predecessors (barring TF1 and Bumblebee).

Watched it, sadly not in russian.

Felt like an average sequel to the Bee film and seperate to bayverse. Out of three movies with a history museum in it (ww84, eternals and this) maybe slightly below eternals but def better than ww84.

It doesnt really do the dirty on beast wars characters because they dont have any character, so yay for that?

more spoilery thoughts below.

___________________________________________________________________________

not much to grumble or swear at, the story doesnt really make sense but hey ho. Just transwarp to the past when Unicron finds you, rinse and repeat. Ignoring that, the Maximals thinking unicron is a myth but yet they know of Optimus for primal to name himself after him was probably another picky plot hole.

Kid needs medicine for bad hands after playing on a years old ancient game boy despite his bro knowing electronics and having street contacts seemed off.

Ron Perlman is surprisingly okay as Primal, h e might not sound like Primal but probably the best voice in it -his character isnt there (doesnt threaten his own team mates with beating thme with their severed limbs but hey, his team mates dont speak kinda so it would be pointless).

Very bot orientated but not that good a thing when they have very little characterisation and wheeljack was like...could they just have him not speaking too.

didnt find anything funny or comical. Freezers were a bit like dull versions of live action frenzy. Why they reuse scorponoks name again on things that arent scorponok is just becoming a hting.

nightbird just flying, because, why dont all the car bots do that...but probably less of a headache than trying to figure out tripple changing toys like they couldn't with Bees villains.

Choosing Apeling rather than using ANYTHING that doesnt look like Primal, BBoom, Lioconvoy, Owl Prowl, a floating Butt, anything might have been a better choice.

blackeyedprime wrote:
Felt like an average sequel to the Bee film and seperate to bayverse. Out of three movies with a history museum in it (ww84, eternals and this) maybe slightly below eternals but def better than ww84.

Seriously, worse than Eternals? Respectfully, I wouldn't wipe my butt with the film Eternals was filmed on and found ROTB far more entertaining and coherent. WW84 was horrifically executed, but more entertaining than Eternals.

But again, just my opinion. I'd put ROTB above both of those three.

It wasn't too bad.

There was a glimmer of hope that the never ending talks about whether or not the Transformers live action film franchise was rebooting with these newer films would end once Rise of the Beasts came out. But it didn't because the film chose not to be too much of a change stylistically from the other live action Transformers films. Plot wise, connections to other films were kept vague and they even introduced a tool that any writer can use to bring whatever character they want into any point in time (the Transwarp key, which while now destroyed is still around in the past to be picked up and used at any point in time). Some fans have accepted that this wishy washiness and lack of commitment to a full on reboot of the franchise is all intentional on the part of Paramount, but others still want a clear answer.
Well, for those wanting a real answer, Steven Caple Jr has one: Continuity in this franchise DOES NOT MATTER. Even though this is all the same film series, the events will not match up, because each movie or series of movies focuses on their own thing. They should instead be treated as stand-alones. And not just the new films, but the previous Bay films too. Below is the transcript of that part of the interview, within the Empire Podcast Spoiler Special with Steven Caple Jr, where continuity is discussed.

Interviewer: In terms of the continuity of the franchise, are you worried about matching it up with the first Bay film, which suggests that Optimus has never been to earth before…
Caple Jr: … But now it’s kinda broken already. For me, I’m not like fully worried about it. There are things I would love to stay within that line, but at a certain point, we all know it, Bay has admitted it, I had certain conversations with him like, in terms of tracking the storyline by movie 3, 4 and 5 (5 specifically i would say), now it’s kinda like …
Interviewer: … they were freestyling it
Caple Jr: They were freestyling. Unicron is planet earth, it was things like that. Cool conceptually but that’s a lot to unravel and will we ever see Unicron? Cause now it’s Earth. Probably a reason why they stopped right there. So like, for me, I’m not worried about it, it’s about what’s best for the movie. For me, I have my classics. We got movie 1 with Sam witwicky, it’s a classic. Then we got 3, some of the best action I’ve seen in any movie, best Transformers battles, like it was really good. Those are the movies, they’re like stand-alones. For us, we just make sure about our story and if it tracks through each one [we make]. If we try to hold ourselves to what another storyline/ timeline was, we’d definitely be in trouble. Cause at a certain point, I don’t think anyone knew exactly where they were going with 4 and 5.

What you just read is the new official take on the matter of continuity: that it does not matter. You'll see that the word reboot is not uttered because that's not what anyone making these films want to convey either. This film, Bumblebee, AOE, TLK, and the initial trilogy are all their own stories within the same franchise, but with no need to connect perfectly to eachother. They are all constant (soft) reboots in their own way, if you want to see it that way, but also all (soft) reboots of Bayverse. So the Bayverse is far from dead, it is instead fragmented, and anything can happen from here on out. So have fun with that take.

My interest in the movie franchise was never that high after watching the first live-action Transformers film in 2007 (sans the 2018 Bumblebee film), but this completely kills it for me.

This is silly and why Transformers up untill now is still just silly action fun and a toy commercial.

I would love for a team to take Transformers seriously and of course for them to be competent (unlike the netflix show, my god the writing is some of the worst I've ever seen).

Transformers needs a reboot, and a different top management. The same buttfaces are still in charge of the movie franchise and as long as they are there, all Transformers movies will suffer.

"We're not concerned with continuity" is writer speak for "We're not competent enough to write a compelling serialized story, so we'll just make a bunch of unconnected stories about whatever we want."

Lore Keeper wrote:"We're not concerned with continuity" is writer speak for "We're not competent enough to write a compelling serialized story, so we'll just make a bunch of unconnected stories about whatever we want."

Exactly. The MCU was able to do it for over a decade, and it's still going. So why can't Transformers?

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Lore Keeper wrote:"We're not concerned with continuity" is writer speak for "We're not competent enough to write a compelling serialized story, so we'll just make a bunch of unconnected stories about whatever we want."

Exactly. The MCU was able to do it for over a decade, and it's still going. So why can't Transformers?

Probably because they wrote themselves into a story they no longer want to follow

If it works for star wars the why not transforners... Oh wait.

There has been this back and foward with this subject. I'm not sure if I believe it 100%.

We will know for sure when they announce the next film.

Yeah, this is why I have no sympathy for the writers on strike right now. Most of them are already criminally overpaid for churning out disjointed nonsense that an AI can do for little or nothing.

I have no problem with this. Considering the mess the original series became near the end, the chance to overlook some of it is welcome.

bluecatcinema wrote:I have no problem with this. Considering the mess the original series became near the end, the chance to overlook some of it is welcome.

I do have a problem with this considering the same mistakes that began to plague the original series will begin to fester in the new series. Playing loose and fast with continuity is why a good number of fans get disinterested with Ips like Star Wars, The MCU, The DCEU, and even as recent as Rise of the Beasts. And considering that ROTB isn't doing too well at the Box Office, this does not bode well for the future films. When you tell the audience that you don't care, they shouldn't be surprised when audiences show that they don't care.

Slashercon wrote:

bluecatcinema wrote:I have no problem with this. Considering the mess the original series became near the end, the chance to overlook some of it is welcome.

I do have a problem with this considering the same mistakes that began to plague the original series will begin to fester in the new series. Playing loose and fast with continuity is why a good number of fans get disinterested with Ips like Star Wars, The MCU, The DCEU, and even as recent as Rise of the Beasts. And considering that ROTB isn't doing too well at the Box Office, this does not bode well for the future films. When you tell the audience that you don't care, they shouldn't be surprised when audiences show that they don't care.

The only continuity point that has been altered is the whole "Unicron is Earth" thing at the end of TLK. All things considered, not that big a loss...

What's that? The Bayverse/Live movie people didn't care a fig about "continuity"?

Slashercon wrote:

bluecatcinema wrote:I have no problem with this. Considering the mess the original series became near the end, the chance to overlook some of it is welcome.

I do have a problem with this considering the same mistakes that began to plague the original series will begin to fester in the new series. Playing loose and fast with continuity is why a good number of fans get disinterested with Ips like Star Wars, The MCU, The DCEU, and even as recent as Rise of the Beasts. And considering that ROTB isn't doing too well at the Box Office, this does not bode well for the future films. When you tell the audience that you don't care, they shouldn't be surprised when audiences show that they don't care.

Well said. Just because something original devolved into a mess is not justification to repeat the same nonsense. If you're using an IP to attract the built-in fanbase, but show that you don't give a damn about them or the story, you just ruin the IP.

Next: Di Bonaventura comes out and say the opposite. Yawn.

I discarded Bay's 4 & 5 from memory already minutes after their end credits. Don't even care to own them on media or digitally.

I never cared to argue with anyone whether BBM/ROTB is or is not a reboot. They SHOULD have been, and still COULD have been in my head and that's it, anyone else can consider different and I respect that. Caple Jr. should capitalize on the good will of the BBM & ROTB fans and move the next live-action movies further away from Bayverse and start telling stories in new coherent timeline. Don't jump all over the place because "such & such concepts are cool, let bend it in."

Personally I don't mind Bay designs for the Decepticons & Terrorcons factions (still need more colors). But the Autobots should continue to look like the BBM Cybertron ones or more humanoid, as being the "good guys" and thus need the connections with human, that's the way to go. Pay hommage to Bay & G1 designs to please most fans, but scrap the plot links to Bay is the smart move imo.

bluecatcinema wrote:

Slashercon wrote:

bluecatcinema wrote:I have no problem with this. Considering the mess the original series became near the end, the chance to overlook some of it is welcome.

I do have a problem with this considering the same mistakes that began to plague the original series will begin to fester in the new series. Playing loose and fast with continuity is why a good number of fans get disinterested with Ips like Star Wars, The MCU, The DCEU, and even as recent as Rise of the Beasts. And considering that ROTB isn't doing too well at the Box Office, this does not bode well for the future films. When you tell the audience that you don't care, they shouldn't be surprised when audiences show that they don't care.

The only continuity point that has been altered is the whole "Unicron is Earth" thing at the end of TLK. All things considered, not that big a loss...

And even then, there's the notion that ROTB Unicron was technically from the future, suggesting he eventually gets out of the Earth in some later era.

But, yeah, simply ignoring TLK is best for everyone's sanity.

For many reasons, I have started to discard the Bay films from my viewing palette - especially after I attempted a full rewatch when TLK came out only to find myself disappointed. I discovered then I had a lot of issues with the film's continuity (or lack thereof) really from the treatment of specific characters on down. I have come to see every movie have the same plot from the '07 movies plot again, again, and again albeit dumbed down because of Bay's lack of care for developing and creating a story that connects in any meaningful way or has any worthwhile character development because of his concerns of explosions and lens flare. He's a director that is purely spectacle and eye candy and it shows, unfortunately. The effort put into the 07 films just dramatically vanishes by the time you make it to TLK. Does anyone remember the fact that Decepticons were capable of hacking and shutting down human technology? Effective owning us? It's never brought up again and they are never shown attempting that again. While the Bumblebee movie was a good departure from all that I was exhausted with the Bayverse at that point because there really was never a definitive "this is a reboot" and that was just beyond frustrating.

I still haven't seen Rise of the Beasts. I am waiting for it to come to a streaming service like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Max, or Hulu even. It may be a great film, it might not be, but if you can't respect the continuity or be creative enough to care to tie it all together then what is the point? If I wanted spectacle I'd go to a theme park.

Coming to a point so I don't get anger and pitchforks, I get that a lot of people grew up with Bayformers and it served as their intro to the series, which is cool and fantastic. If people love ROTB, good. If people hate it, good too. Each piece of media functions as it should, as an ambassador of the brand, and from that people find something else they like or enjoy in the series that keeps them hooked. Beast Wars opened that door for me, and there are some good and bad elements of that too. In recent years I've been sampling and I found I enjoy most of what I see unless there are a lot of problems with it like the problems in the Bayverse with not respecting your continuity or your story.

The recent Bay film "Ambulance" (supposedly) won some praises for its "maturity." So I rented it, and it was just as bad as anything he did. Bay hasn't learned a thing different.

Explosions alone don't sell a TF movie anymore I think. Bay's kind of action is so old-school now, the same non-sensical Bayplosion spectacles yield ever diminishing results in a franchise, it's just science. I got bored from the action, let alone the plot by TF3. And his views that robots are stupid, "people only interested in militarism & sexy people" (I'm paraphrasing) views are not fit for helming TF movies if you're looking for any depth for the bots imo.

But Bay did a good thing in giving Caple Jr. a fairly free rein in ROTB even though Bay's a Producer, credit where credit is due.

Way I see it, BBM is still a smart reboot, ROTB is a decent sequel to it. Pray that Caple Jr. don't mess up BBM's and his own continuity. Keep the scope of each movies manageable.

My ranking for fav live-action: #1 is a tie between '07 and BBM ('07 got the initial hype & now nostaglia, BBM is a better plotted story and got the better designs. Objectively I'd say BBM is definitive #1 in a few years), #3 is ROTB (not great, but competent enough, Caple Jr. is young as a director, give him room to grow), DOTM #4, ROTF #5. AOE & TLK don't deserve to be ranked as canon and best forgotten (other than some cool designs) for the sake of Bay.

Continuity is for nerds. Either the story works, or it doesn't, and continuity doesn't have anything to do with it.

I think I made a long post a while ago about how, if you took one specific introduced element from each of the movies (including AoE and TLK), you could create a legitimate story that tied together. I doubt they will do that though. I wish I could find that post but I'm old and I forget where I put all my stuff...

...you would think the Writers Guild could come up with something while they are walking the packet lines to increase their $295,000 median salaries.

AcademyofDrX wrote:Continuity is for nerds. Either the story works, or it doesn't, and continuity doesn't have anything to do with it.

Thank you for acknowledging our supreme intellect over everyone else.

Nerds make the world work after all, it's high time we got some credit for that.

The ideas coming out of the Writer's Room are bad not because Bay used them, but due to Bay cramming as much of the ideas into his movies as possible like there's no tomorrow.

Caple Jr. *might* have a bit of that tendency too. As during one interview he was like "I want Unicorn on the big screen!" without making the case for it. I felt the theatrical release left out a whole lot of plot & character developments on the cutting floor. That's a sign of Caple Jr./script wrtiter taking in far more than one can chew for a movie.

Also, what's the case for WHY continuity is NOT important in a franchise (unless you're rebooting)?

cloudballoon wrote:The ideas coming out of the Writer's Room are bad not because Bay used them, but due to Bay cramming as much of the ideas into his movies as possible like there's no tomorrow.

Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.

cloudballoon wrote:Caple Jr. *might* have a bit of that tendency too. As during one interview he was like "I want Unicorn on the big screen!" without making the case for it. I felt the theatrical release left out a whole lot of plot & character developments on the cutting floor. That's a sign of Caple Jr./script wrtiter taking in far more than one can chew for a movie.

Yeah, the usage of Unicron in this movie kind of feels like a case where Caple simply let his inner fanboy do the talking instead of his director mindset.

Which, honestly, is pretty wild, considering how much of an anti-fan Bay was.

cloudballoon wrote:Also, what's the case for WHY continuity is NOT important in a franchise (unless you're rebooting)?

From this interview, it sounds like Caple is a fan of the first and third Bay movies, so is okay with not contradicting those, but would rather ignore AOE and TLK. Which, in a sense, is also an opinion held by a lot of us here in the fandom (preferring Movie 1 and DOTM over AOE and TLK, I mean).

Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.

That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.

Sabrblade wrote:Yeah, the usage of Unicron in this movie kind of feels like a case where Caple simply let his inner fanboy do the talking instead of his director mindset.

Spot on. It's what have me worried for the upcoming movies. Judging from all the bonus extra features released already, The ROTB theatrical cut's editing leave much to be desired. Paper-thin character development, bots with lines... I can image ROTB could've been much better, and it's kind of inexcusable given the added delay of a WHOLE year to improve on it.

Sabrblade wrote:It sounds like Caple is a fan of the first and third Bay movies, so is okay with not contradicting those, but would rather ignore AOE and TLK. Which, in a sense, is also an opinion held by a lot of us here in the fandom (preferring Movie 1 and DOTM over AOE and TLK, I mean).

As fans, WE can forget/ignore AOE and TLK. But as director/producer/IP holder, that's not the right approach to make a new continuity IMO. Caple Jr. can reveal plot points & character backgrounds in his new timeline that are exactly the same as some Bay ones (that he likes), but shoot it your own way. Can't just go and pick and choose some stuff from 5 Bay movies and discard the rest. It's way more confusing than just start over. Besides, Caple Jr. is just limiting himself with character selections too.

william-james88 wrote:Well, for those wanting a real answer, Steven Caple Jr has one: Continuity in this franchise DOES NOT MATTER.

Interviewer: In terms of the continuity of the franchise, are you worried about matching it up with the first Bay film, which suggests that Optimus has never been to earth before…
Caple Jr: … But now it’s kinda broken already. For me, I’m not like fully worried about it.

What you just read is the new official take on the matter of continuity: that it does not matter.

I'll be the one to beat the dead horse: I'm not seeing the director say that definitively.

cloudballoon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.

That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.

I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate. Probably saw a picture of the place that was presented by a staff member and said, "that one works". I think you're giving him too much credit and spewing hate in a direction where it probably isn't warranted because of ignorance. Think of his "Smithsonian" scenes going into the aircraft graveyard in New Mexico, the Art Museum in Milwaukee being in NOT Milwaukee, etc. If he sees something he likes, I doubt he even gets as far as "what building is this" as opposed to "will I get good camera angles and will kilotons of exposives look cool here?"

continuity is important for story narrative.

just proving he's a lazy c**t much like the modern marvel/dc comics and star trek.

cloudballoon wrote:As fans, WE can forget/ignore AOE and TLK. But as director/producer/IP holder, that's not the right approach to make a new continuity IMO. Caple Jr. can reveal plot points & character backgrounds in his new timeline that are exactly the same as some Bay ones (that he likes), but shoot it your own way. Can't just go and pick and choose some stuff from 5 Bay movies and discard the rest. It's way more confusing than just start over. Besides, Caple Jr. is just limiting himself with character selections too.

I mean, it's happened before. Like when Warner Bros. made Superman Returns a sequel to Superman 1 and 2, but chose to ignore Superman 3, 4, and Supergirl (in other words, the "bad" Superman movies of the time).

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.

That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.

I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate.

Oh, he definitely knew, and had to be a fool not to know. The filming of that scene stirred up some massive controversy long before the movie itself saw release. There were news stories and articles about the filming of that WWII scene in which locals were disgusted and outraged by the presence of those banners on that building, with Bay giving responses to the complaints in said news reports in order to justify his decisions about that scene. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Sabrblade wrote: had to be a fool not to know.

Well, it IS Michael Bay so...

My suspicion is he didn't know before the fact, only learning about the controversy after the scenes were shown, OR he didn't think it would be a big deal. He kind of lives in his own little world, like he majority of Hollywood.

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote: had to be a fool not to know.

Well, it IS Michael Bay so...

My suspicion is he didn't know before the fact, only learning about the controversy after the scenes were shown, OR he didn't think it would be a big deal. He kind of lives in his own little world, like he majority of Hollywood.

Yeah, in those articles, he argued that the final presentation of the scene would honor the Allies and make Churchill proud.

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote: had to be a fool not to know.

Well, it IS Michael Bay so...

My suspicion is he didn't know before the fact, only learning about the controversy after the scenes were shown, OR he didn't think it would be a big deal. He kind of lives in his own little world, like he majority of Hollywood.

Yeah, in those articles, he argued that the final presentation of the scene would honor the Allies and make Churchill proud.

Well they did win...heh heh.

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.

That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.

I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate. Probably saw a picture of the place that was presented by a staff member and said, "that one works". I think you're giving him too much credit and spewing hate in a direction where it probably isn't warranted because of ignorance. Think of his "Smithsonian" scenes going into the aircraft graveyard in New Mexico, the Art Museum in Milwaukee being in NOT Milwaukee, etc. If he sees something he likes, I doubt he even gets as far as "what building is this" as opposed to "will I get good camera angles and will kilotons of exposives look cool here?"

So... just arrogance then? But at this point, I'm kind of beyond caring anything Bay-wise, inside or outside of the TF franchise to be angry anymore. As I said before, Bay as a producer of ROTB he was hands off enough to not interfere Caple Jr. too much it seems... and that's a credit to Bay. Let give TF a fresh start from BBM/ROTB on, for a better planned future. Stick to whatever elements you introduce and give the viewers consistency, followups and closure, not a thousand dropped plots & contradictions.

cloudballoon wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.

That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.

I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate. Probably saw a picture of the place that was presented by a staff member and said, "that one works". I think you're giving him too much credit and spewing hate in a direction where it probably isn't warranted because of ignorance. Think of his "Smithsonian" scenes going into the aircraft graveyard in New Mexico, the Art Museum in Milwaukee being in NOT Milwaukee, etc. If he sees something he likes, I doubt he even gets as far as "what building is this" as opposed to "will I get good camera angles and will kilotons of exposives look cool here?"

So... just arrogance then?

Ignorance disguised as "artistic intent".

Just want to point out that I believe, it's been said not directly but implied, that Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman probably departed from writing anything for the film series after RotF. Their ideas seemed to carry directly over to Transformers Prime, where I recalled reading in an interview with them, they were able to finally get to more connected storytelling. I really feel Bay is a lot of the reason they saw themselves out of the production as they knew he was more focused on lens flare and big explosions. It's sort of why RotF ended up so half-assed in the writing department because both Orci and Kurtzman got replaced due to the writer's strike at that time too. I feel like they used it as a convenient door to jump fully on board to work on Transformers Prime to put all of their ideas and notes to use in another area altogether since Bay was probably difficult to work with for them based on how uncreative he is with his approach.

I'd also venture that the whole writing quality tanked due to both creative differences with Bay and them and the writer strike at that time for both RotF and DOTM.

I admit, my assertions are based solely on assumption and probably not what actually happened. To me, however, this is just what I thought transpired or why the sudden tonal shift and lack of care regarding story cohesion.

Tyrannacon wrote:I'd also venture that the whole writing quality tanked due to both creative differences with Bay and them and the writer strike at that time for both RotF and DOTM.

I admit, my assertions are based solely on assumption and probably not what actually happened. To me, however, this is just what I thought transpired or why the sudden tonal shift and lack of care regarding story cohesion.

The writer's strike taught the producers they could make almost a billion dollars practically without a script. Is it any wonder that none of the core movies have had good writing?