Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers
Sunday, November 11th, 2018 3:47PM CST
Category: Toy NewsPosted by: william-james88 Views: 24,220
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The recent Seibertron galleries have shown the Transformers Siege toys to be smaller than previous incarnations. For instance, Siege Megatron and Hound are shorter than Titans Return Megatron and Combiner Wars Hound respectively. But does that mean we are getting ripped off? Especially since the MSRP is now $19.99 for deluxes and $29.99 for voyagers? Well TF Fan West Lee, on Facebook, chose to look at this from a mass perspective. Figures in the past might be tall but if they are hollow, a very common complaint from fans, then maybe fixing that aspect might mean more material and thus lower the overall height for this line. And he found that this line offers more in terms of mass (and thus meterial) than previous lines. Here is what he had to say along with the images showing that Siege Megatron, for instance, has much more material than most other voyagers.
Have you seen the complaints that WFC-S figures are smaller than the previous figures? Well are they smaller? In terms of height, some Siege figures are slightly shorter yes, but in terms of mass? Well let's use facts here, people say that TR Megs is bigger than WFC-S Megs, well in terms of mass (g) the latter is bigger. Here are a few other comparisons. Based on the weights, the figures have NOT decreased in mass at all. The unified scale is the explanation as to why some are shorter. All in all, Siege is a massive improvement.
There is a misconception of cost / height, the height of a figure in relation to cost, saving, cutting etc is irrelevant, the weight is relevant, pay per gram not per inch, raw materials go by raw weight.
Credit(s): West Lee
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Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993639)
Posted by Mkall on November 11th, 2018 @ 4:13pm CST
Posted by Mkall on November 11th, 2018 @ 4:13pm CST
I'm curious how this matches the mass of other Voyagers from previous Generations lines.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993641)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 11th, 2018 @ 4:38pm CST
Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 11th, 2018 @ 4:38pm CST
Skritz wrote:Can't wait to get a matching Targetmaster for my Triggerhappy and Hot Rod.
Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993650)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 11th, 2018 @ 5:12pm CST
That would make him more similar to Pinpointer:
Transformers G1 1987 Pinpointer Gallery
But I see what you're going for. Still, G1 toy accuracy isn't all that's "crack"ed up to be (ha ha):
Transformers G1 1987 Peacemaker Gallery
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 11th, 2018 @ 5:12pm CST
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Skritz wrote:Can't wait to get a matching Targetmaster for my Triggerhappy and Hot Rod.
Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.
That would make him more similar to Pinpointer:
Transformers G1 1987 Pinpointer Gallery
But I see what you're going for. Still, G1 toy accuracy isn't all that's "crack"ed up to be (ha ha):
Transformers G1 1987 Peacemaker Gallery
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993668)
Posted by deliciouspeter on November 11th, 2018 @ 6:37pm CST
Posted by deliciouspeter on November 11th, 2018 @ 6:37pm CST
Fun. I hope someone weighs the leaders too.
They look great, but man those deluxes are short.
They look great, but man those deluxes are short.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993676)
Posted by Solrac333 on November 11th, 2018 @ 7:12pm CST
Posted by Solrac333 on November 11th, 2018 @ 7:12pm CST
Ok. Now weigh an $20 voyager Classics Optimus with this new $30 Optimus.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993677)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 11th, 2018 @ 7:18pm CST
Eh, not really. As is very clear in that image you showed, Pinpointer's barrel mount is located on the backs of his feet, not the backs of his knees.
On Firebolt, the barrels are definitely attached to the back of the knees.
Maybe not, but I think it's important to have the general arrangement of things right, especially with the Targetmasters' gun modes since that's all they've got. As-is, Firedrive's gun mode... Forget the details, it's got the barrels sawn off and stuck to the lower back of the stock compared to the original!
...I may have obsessively studied the details of Fracas, Nightstick, Recoil, and Firebolt with an eye to building homemade ones for myself. Just maybe.
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 11th, 2018 @ 7:18pm CST
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Skritz wrote:Can't wait to get a matching Targetmaster for my Triggerhappy and Hot Rod.
Oh yeah. Cog and the Battle Masters are still very definitely "Take my money!" Even if Firedrive needs a mod right out of the package (migrating the barrel mount to the back of his knees) I'm still excited for him.
That would make him more similar to Pinpointer:
Eh, not really. As is very clear in that image you showed, Pinpointer's barrel mount is located on the backs of his feet, not the backs of his knees.
On Firebolt, the barrels are definitely attached to the back of the knees.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:But I see what you're going for. Still, G1 toy accuracy isn't all that's "crack"ed up to be (ha ha):
Maybe not, but I think it's important to have the general arrangement of things right, especially with the Targetmasters' gun modes since that's all they've got. As-is, Firedrive's gun mode... Forget the details, it's got the barrels sawn off and stuck to the lower back of the stock compared to the original!
...I may have obsessively studied the details of Fracas, Nightstick, Recoil, and Firebolt with an eye to building homemade ones for myself. Just maybe.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993679)
Posted by Skritz on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:03pm CST
Posted by Skritz on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:03pm CST
I'm not too bothered by the transformation scheme on the gun-base Battlemasters. I imagine this was just some cost-cutting mixed with shared engineering. Make me wonder if people won't 3d print new gun parts to make custom targetmasters. 
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993681)
Posted by william-james88 on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:14pm CST
If it was $20 in 2006 then it would be at least $25 today when considering inflation.
Posted by william-james88 on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:14pm CST
omega666 wrote:Ok. Now weigh an $20 voyager Classics Optimus with this new $30 Optimus.
If it was $20 in 2006 then it would be at least $25 today when considering inflation.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993686)
Posted by YoungPrime on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:26pm CST
Posted by YoungPrime on November 11th, 2018 @ 8:26pm CST
Not feeling the height of these Voyagers. You can tell that Starscream isn't even all that big which is those ports on his shoulders are so ridiculous tall.
Can't really defend more G1 characters or find a good enough reason to replace a lot of the CHUGS you already have when Hasbro is half@ssing everything but their prices.
Can't really defend more G1 characters or find a good enough reason to replace a lot of the CHUGS you already have when Hasbro is half@ssing everything but their prices.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993698)
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 11th, 2018 @ 9:20pm CST
The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 11th, 2018 @ 9:20pm CST
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...
Now, not so much.
The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993700)
Posted by Flashwave on November 11th, 2018 @ 9:31pm CST
Except the fan gripe is not solely limited to one figure, the toyline as a whole is averaging down. I'm not a Scale guy, as long as Big Guys are Big and Little Guys are Little, ans the size of things doeant really bother me, but they arent wrong in saying that the Deluxes as a qhole are shorter. Siege Hound is smaller than Universe Hound, and by comparion he's not nearly the biggest oy out of his pruce range. Am I gwtting Siege Hound? Absolutely, I want a g
Figure with a better foot and the clip that holds on the holp generator on my Uni Hound is showing a stress fracture. But I'm not sure I will even see him above the other guys on my shelf.
Posted by Flashwave on November 11th, 2018 @ 9:31pm CST
Wolfman Jake wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...
Now, not so much.
The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.
Except the fan gripe is not solely limited to one figure, the toyline as a whole is averaging down. I'm not a Scale guy, as long as Big Guys are Big and Little Guys are Little, ans the size of things doeant really bother me, but they arent wrong in saying that the Deluxes as a qhole are shorter. Siege Hound is smaller than Universe Hound, and by comparion he's not nearly the biggest oy out of his pruce range. Am I gwtting Siege Hound? Absolutely, I want a g
Figure with a better foot and the clip that holds on the holp generator on my Uni Hound is showing a stress fracture. But I'm not sure I will even see him above the other guys on my shelf.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993706)
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 11th, 2018 @ 10:37pm CST
Yes, Deluxe Class figures are shorter, but that's been true since Fall of Cybertron/Thrilling 30. It's not a new "problem." The Siege figures aren't really appreciably different compared to like-classed figures from the Prime Wars Trilogy. In some instances, you can point out a figure that is a hair (mm or so) shorter than another from recent history, but the figure isn't really "smaller." That's why some people are looking at overall mass too. Siege Hound has a lot more bulk down in his calves, simply due to the transformation scheme. If it had been done differently, some of the extra mass in the legs might have ended up in the torso, making him just a bit taller. Some of the comparison pic can be misleading too. If all you're going off is something like this:
...then yes, Siege Hound looks shorter than Universe 2008 Hound, who in turn looks shorter than Combiner Wars Hound. The difference sure look significant in these pictures. However, what we're experiencing is a bit of an optical illusion. When the figures arranged as they are, left to right, with the smallest toys at the right and seemingly the largest at the left, our eyes are exaggerating the differences we're seeing, because we're expecting a size gradient based on how everything is arranged. The sharp drop off at the right end is making the differences at the left end seem more substantial than they actually are. (It also doesn't help that our perception of size differences is further compromised by the wide shot nature of this picture, putting the figures out in the "distance" of our visual field. Think of the moon illusion and how the moon looks different sizes at different distances from the visual horizon. The same issue happens here, on a much smaller scale (no pun intended). Take a look at these comparisons between only two figures at a time:
Suddenly, those height differences look a LOT less drastic. We've got nice, close up shots of these figures paired together in our "near vision field," making for less "guesstimating" on the part of our visual processing. Siege figures are really not smaller or shorter than what has come before in the past six years or so. If you were somehow expecting the figures were going to get "bigger" again, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment (and you haven't really been paying attention for the last several years). This is the new normal with Transformers figure scaling, and it has been like this for a while. If your collection is primarily based on figures from between 2006 and 2011, when all figures were bigger, you're definitely going to have some scale problems now. Siege figures are meant to fit in with more contemporary figures from Thrilling 30 and onwards, and they do that very well.
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 11th, 2018 @ 10:37pm CST
Flashwave wrote:Except the fan gripe is not solely limited to one figure, the toyline as a whole is averaging down. I'm not a Scale guy, as long as Big Guys are Big and Little Guys are Little, ans the size of things doeant really bother me, but they arent wrong in saying that the Deluxes as a qhole are shorter. Siege Hound is smaller than Universe Hound, and by comparion he's not nearly the biggest oy out of his pruce range. Am I gwtting Siege Hound? Absolutely, I want a g
Figure with a better foot and the clip that holds on the holp generator on my Uni Hound is showing a stress fracture. But I'm not sure I will even see him above the other guys on my shelf.
Yes, Deluxe Class figures are shorter, but that's been true since Fall of Cybertron/Thrilling 30. It's not a new "problem." The Siege figures aren't really appreciably different compared to like-classed figures from the Prime Wars Trilogy. In some instances, you can point out a figure that is a hair (mm or so) shorter than another from recent history, but the figure isn't really "smaller." That's why some people are looking at overall mass too. Siege Hound has a lot more bulk down in his calves, simply due to the transformation scheme. If it had been done differently, some of the extra mass in the legs might have ended up in the torso, making him just a bit taller. Some of the comparison pic can be misleading too. If all you're going off is something like this:
...then yes, Siege Hound looks shorter than Universe 2008 Hound, who in turn looks shorter than Combiner Wars Hound. The difference sure look significant in these pictures. However, what we're experiencing is a bit of an optical illusion. When the figures arranged as they are, left to right, with the smallest toys at the right and seemingly the largest at the left, our eyes are exaggerating the differences we're seeing, because we're expecting a size gradient based on how everything is arranged. The sharp drop off at the right end is making the differences at the left end seem more substantial than they actually are. (It also doesn't help that our perception of size differences is further compromised by the wide shot nature of this picture, putting the figures out in the "distance" of our visual field. Think of the moon illusion and how the moon looks different sizes at different distances from the visual horizon. The same issue happens here, on a much smaller scale (no pun intended). Take a look at these comparisons between only two figures at a time:
Suddenly, those height differences look a LOT less drastic. We've got nice, close up shots of these figures paired together in our "near vision field," making for less "guesstimating" on the part of our visual processing. Siege figures are really not smaller or shorter than what has come before in the past six years or so. If you were somehow expecting the figures were going to get "bigger" again, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment (and you haven't really been paying attention for the last several years). This is the new normal with Transformers figure scaling, and it has been like this for a while. If your collection is primarily based on figures from between 2006 and 2011, when all figures were bigger, you're definitely going to have some scale problems now. Siege figures are meant to fit in with more contemporary figures from Thrilling 30 and onwards, and they do that very well.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993708)
Posted by Emerje on November 11th, 2018 @ 10:48pm CST
I said the same thing last week and it went largely ignored. The "Lambo" mold was ridiculously tall even next to other tall Universe figures like the "Datsun" mold. I don't know why people keep using the Sideswipe comparison as an example of how much the line has shrunk when that Universe figure is just so absurd.
It's going to be hard to properly judge sizes without actual measurements.
Emerje
Posted by Emerje on November 11th, 2018 @ 10:48pm CST
Wolfman Jake wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...
Now, not so much.
The Universe 2008 Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold is REALLY big for a Deluxe Class figure, even back in the day, when all size classes were generally larger than they are now. It really makes what are essentially current par for the course sized figures look small by (unfair) comparison. Just judging by the comparison pics in the Seibertron galleriers, I can assure you that Siege Sideswipe is not as short as he seems next to his Universe 2008 counterpart, and out of context with contemporary Deluxe Class figures. He'll scale very nicely with anything from Thriling 30 onward.
I said the same thing last week and it went largely ignored. The "Lambo" mold was ridiculously tall even next to other tall Universe figures like the "Datsun" mold. I don't know why people keep using the Sideswipe comparison as an example of how much the line has shrunk when that Universe figure is just so absurd.
It's going to be hard to properly judge sizes without actual measurements.
Emerje
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993711)
Posted by Dr. Caelus on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:21pm CST
Combiner Wars Hound is crouching in the second picture.
Posted by Dr. Caelus on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:21pm CST
Wolfman Jake wrote:Take a look at these comparisons between only two figures at a time:
Suddenly, those height differences look a LOT less drastic. We've got nice, close up shots of these figures paired together in our "near vision field," making for less "guesstimating" on the part of our visual processing.
Combiner Wars Hound is crouching in the second picture.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993712)
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:44pm CST
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:44pm CST
I can see fans being salty a bout WFC:Siege being smaller than Combiner Wars figures... But as others have stated... Those are also more hollow, and effectively share a *lot* of engineering across the line saving costs (which they could budget into slightly larger figures?). Siege figures look more complex than any of the CW line.
As far as those that keep complaining "these aren't CHUG" (Pre-thrilling 30) again, as others have pointed out that was a time when plastic was cheaper and inflation was lower. While for being large-for-largeness-sake is one thing.... stylistically I wouldn't call them better figures than siege. Also nobody brings up Binaltech/Alternators.... if you want to talk about "big figures for your $". But I would also argue they haven't aged well (at least their robot modes).
As far as those that keep complaining "these aren't CHUG" (Pre-thrilling 30) again, as others have pointed out that was a time when plastic was cheaper and inflation was lower. While for being large-for-largeness-sake is one thing.... stylistically I wouldn't call them better figures than siege. Also nobody brings up Binaltech/Alternators.... if you want to talk about "big figures for your $". But I would also argue they haven't aged well (at least their robot modes).
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993713)
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:45pm CST
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 11th, 2018 @ 11:45pm CST
One could also argue by the figures trending smaller in the current line... they'd *scale better* with the Combiner War combiners in gestalt mode?!
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993715)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:07am CST
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:07am CST
The weight is an important factor to consider, because of a property you should have learned in physics: density.
Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.
Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.
Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.
Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993725)
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 3:17am CST
That's a good question.... My guess would be the Unicron Trilogy would be the "current" heavy-weights. Though some of the first series of movie toys could surprise people.
But taking a cross section of Thrilling 30/Age of Extinction/Studio and CW trilogy could get interesting.
Posted by SpikeyTigertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 3:17am CST
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The weight is an important factor to consider, because of a property you should have learned in physics: density.
Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.
Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.
That's a good question.... My guess would be the Unicron Trilogy would be the "current" heavy-weights. Though some of the first series of movie toys could surprise people.
But taking a cross section of Thrilling 30/Age of Extinction/Studio and CW trilogy could get interesting.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993731)
Posted by X3ROhour on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:16am CST
Posted by X3ROhour on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:16am CST
is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993732)
Posted by Hellscream9999 on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:24am CST
I am, but I guess we're in the minority
Posted by Hellscream9999 on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:24am CST
Z3ROhour wrote:is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
I am, but I guess we're in the minority
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993734)
Posted by durroth on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:48am CST
Honestly I'm more bothered by the fact Battletrap *does*, but that's just me.
Also, I vote we use Generations Trailbreaker as the standard measure for things getting shorter. If its not shorter than trailbreaker we're probably fine.
Posted by durroth on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:48am CST
Hellscream9999 wrote:Z3ROhour wrote:is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
I am, but I guess we're in the minority
Honestly I'm more bothered by the fact Battletrap *does*, but that's just me.
Also, I vote we use Generations Trailbreaker as the standard measure for things getting shorter. If its not shorter than trailbreaker we're probably fine.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993735)
Posted by wolverinetodd on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:53am CST
I'm a bit disappointed by that fact, but then Hasbro spoiled us by giving us two completely new Legends Class figures in POTP with Roadtrap and Battleslash to create Battletrap. Originally both Duocons were comprised of two vehicle alt modes that didn't have individual Con modes, but both vehicles combined to form one Con, just as we're seeing with Siege Skytread. If Hasbro had introduced Battletrap into the POTP Deluxe Class line as just one Con that transforms into two different vehicles, as it was originally in G1, then the reveal of Siege Skytread (Flywheels) wouldn't be an issue. Apparently there's no Legends Class in the WFC line, otherwise we might would've gotten a "Skyspear" and a "Dirt-Tread" that combine to form Skytread.
Considering I'm going to display both my POTP Battletrap and WFC Siege Skytread (Flywheels) in their combined Deluxe Class size Con forms, I'm okay with the way Skytread is.
Posted by wolverinetodd on November 12th, 2018 @ 7:53am CST
Z3ROhour wrote:is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
I'm a bit disappointed by that fact, but then Hasbro spoiled us by giving us two completely new Legends Class figures in POTP with Roadtrap and Battleslash to create Battletrap. Originally both Duocons were comprised of two vehicle alt modes that didn't have individual Con modes, but both vehicles combined to form one Con, just as we're seeing with Siege Skytread. If Hasbro had introduced Battletrap into the POTP Deluxe Class line as just one Con that transforms into two different vehicles, as it was originally in G1, then the reveal of Siege Skytread (Flywheels) wouldn't be an issue. Apparently there's no Legends Class in the WFC line, otherwise we might would've gotten a "Skyspear" and a "Dirt-Tread" that combine to form Skytread.
Considering I'm going to display both my POTP Battletrap and WFC Siege Skytread (Flywheels) in their combined Deluxe Class size Con forms, I'm okay with the way Skytread is.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993737)
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on November 12th, 2018 @ 8:33am CST
I think Skytread looks far better and has a more pleasing aesthetic and colour layout than Battletrap and obviously easier to buy both vehicles needed to make him since they're both in one Deluxe package whereas Battletrap's were two seperate Legends purchases (which often cost a fair chunk more than one Deluxe and many stores ran out of one or the other forcing customers to wait or look elsewhere before combining them into his actual true form). Some aspects of Battletrap's design feel worsened by making both sections into their own robot forms (Battletrap's hands in particular). That said, the arms of Skytread being quite noticable as junk under his jet component is somewhat off-putting but otherwise I think his vehicle components both look better than those of Battletrap. Can't have it all. Heck, part of the appeal of the original Duocon toys was the oddly satisfying (though purposely simplistic) transformation of pressing the air vehicle on top of the ground vehicle to make the robot pop into shape. I liked that but yeah...
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on November 12th, 2018 @ 8:33am CST
durroth wrote:Hellscream9999 wrote:Z3ROhour wrote:is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
I am, but I guess we're in the minority
Honestly I'm more bothered by the fact Battletrap *does*, but that's just me.
I think Skytread looks far better and has a more pleasing aesthetic and colour layout than Battletrap and obviously easier to buy both vehicles needed to make him since they're both in one Deluxe package whereas Battletrap's were two seperate Legends purchases (which often cost a fair chunk more than one Deluxe and many stores ran out of one or the other forcing customers to wait or look elsewhere before combining them into his actual true form). Some aspects of Battletrap's design feel worsened by making both sections into their own robot forms (Battletrap's hands in particular). That said, the arms of Skytread being quite noticable as junk under his jet component is somewhat off-putting but otherwise I think his vehicle components both look better than those of Battletrap. Can't have it all. Heck, part of the appeal of the original Duocon toys was the oddly satisfying (though purposely simplistic) transformation of pressing the air vehicle on top of the ground vehicle to make the robot pop into shape. I liked that but yeah...
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993746)
Posted by o.supreme on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:43am CST
So...our toys are getting fatter, like me, not necessarily a good thing
Posted by o.supreme on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:43am CST
william-james88 wrote:The recent Seibertron galleries have shown the Transformers Siege toys to be smaller than previous incarnations. For instance, Siege Megatron and Hound are shorter than Titans Return Megatron and Combiner Wars Hound respectively. But does that mean we are getting ripped off? Especially since the MSRP is now $19.99 for deluxes and $29.99 for voyagers? Well TF Fan West Lee, on Facebook, chose to look at this from a mass perspective. Figures in the past might be tall but if they are hollow, a very common complaint from fans, then maybe fixing that aspect might mean more material and thus lower the overall height for this line. And he found that this line offers more in terms of mass (and thus meterial) than previous lines. Here is what he had to say along with the images showing that Siege Megatron, for instance, has much more material than most other voyagers.
So...our toys are getting fatter, like me, not necessarily a good thing
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993753)
Posted by Emerje on November 12th, 2018 @ 10:44am CST
Muscle weighs more than fat and this is looking like a strong series.
Emerje
Posted by Emerje on November 12th, 2018 @ 10:44am CST
o.supreme wrote:So...our toys are getting fatter, like me, not necessarily a good thing
Muscle weighs more than fat and this is looking like a strong series.
Emerje
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993755)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 12th, 2018 @ 10:52am CST
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 12th, 2018 @ 10:52am CST
The Universe Sideswipe mold is only half a head taller than Titans Return Highbrow (I happen to own Red Alert so I can check such things). It's tall next to, say, Generations Wheeljack but that's because he's squat like the original Wheeljack toy was.
Regarding Skytread and Battletrap:
1. The original Duocon toys never had separate robot modes for the components, so Battleslash and Roadtrap are effectively a bonus feature and nothing more.
2. Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.
And now some questions about Cog:
1. Do Gasket and Grommet use the same connector as the Duocons?
2. Has anyone tested whether either Gasket or Grommet can work as a Titan Master taxi as-is?
Regarding Skytread and Battletrap:
1. The original Duocon toys never had separate robot modes for the components, so Battleslash and Roadtrap are effectively a bonus feature and nothing more.
2. Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.
And now some questions about Cog:
1. Do Gasket and Grommet use the same connector as the Duocons?
2. Has anyone tested whether either Gasket or Grommet can work as a Titan Master taxi as-is?
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993757)
Posted by o.supreme on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:00am CST
I know you added that "retail" part to justify Punch/Counterpunch, but I'd like to see said mandate. Also you can spin it the opposite way. One could say that Skytread was initially planned to be part of PotP, but because it was reduced to a 12 month line, Hasbro cut costs by ditching the individual bot mode designs, and just released it as a deluxe for the Siege line. ...I'm not saying this has any merit, but it is just as likely theorizing.
Posted by o.supreme on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:00am CST
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.
I know you added that "retail" part to justify Punch/Counterpunch, but I'd like to see said mandate. Also you can spin it the opposite way. One could say that Skytread was initially planned to be part of PotP, but because it was reduced to a 12 month line, Hasbro cut costs by ditching the individual bot mode designs, and just released it as a deluxe for the Siege line. ...I'm not saying this has any merit, but it is just as likely theorizing.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993758)
Posted by YoungPrime on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:04am CST
I was never that big a fan of that 2.0 Sideswipe mold. I honestly wish that Ironhide, Ratchet and Trailbreaker were that height and bulk in bot mode. While Siege Sideswipe's height would be fine.
Posted by YoungPrime on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:04am CST
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...
Now, not so much.
I was never that big a fan of that 2.0 Sideswipe mold. I honestly wish that Ironhide, Ratchet and Trailbreaker were that height and bulk in bot mode. While Siege Sideswipe's height would be fine.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993759)
Posted by Evil Eye on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:08am CST
Posted by Evil Eye on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:08am CST
You know one of the things I'm happiest about with Siege? The Weaponizer gimmick is entirely based around 5mm ports, which means not only can you (as Ryan did) go crazy with mega-combinations, but literally any figure with 5mm ports is technically cross-compatible with the line. Like, if I'm not very much mistaken, Cog's torso/shield component could easily mount on Rook's shoulder, which combined with his already-present "power fist" gimmick with his combiner hand would allow for him to take his "violence arm" thing up to 11. Likewise, MechTech figures from DOTM made ample use of 5mm pegs and ports, so they can join in the fun too.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993760)
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:14am CST
Mentioned a couple times that I'm almost certainly buying a couple of Lionizers to go with my SS Lockdown as his Steeljaws but I'll likely take photos of him wielding them in weapon form too. Using Firedrive with Titans Return Hot Rod probably gives him a decent gun (cos the two supplied with him looked ridiculous with the hollowed out seating space for the Titan Master) so he can stop envying the Takara version in that aspect. So yeah. More weapons are always a good thing! (I've always wanted weapon packs for Transformers, to help arm up all those who don't have a gun or could use more anyways) As long as they don't look silly like the Micromasters combined 'weapon' forms and actually look feasible as guns and melee weapons and such.
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:14am CST
Black Hat wrote:You know one of the things I'm happiest about with Siege? The Weaponizer gimmick is entirely based around 5mm ports, which means not only can you (as Ryan did) go crazy with mega-combinations, but literally any figure with 5mm ports is technically cross-compatible with the line. Like, if I'm not very much mistaken, Cog's torso/shield component could easily mount on Rook's shoulder, which combined with his already-present "power fist" gimmick with his combiner hand would allow for him to take his "violence arm" thing up to 11. Likewise, MechTech figures from DOTM made ample use of 5mm pegs and ports, so they can join in the fun too.
Mentioned a couple times that I'm almost certainly buying a couple of Lionizers to go with my SS Lockdown as his Steeljaws but I'll likely take photos of him wielding them in weapon form too. Using Firedrive with Titans Return Hot Rod probably gives him a decent gun (cos the two supplied with him looked ridiculous with the hollowed out seating space for the Titan Master) so he can stop envying the Takara version in that aspect. So yeah. More weapons are always a good thing! (I've always wanted weapon packs for Transformers, to help arm up all those who don't have a gun or could use more anyways) As long as they don't look silly like the Micromasters combined 'weapon' forms and actually look feasible as guns and melee weapons and such.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993762)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:31am CST
I'm pretty sure someone has a quote from an interview or announcement handy about it, I seem to recall reading it in the PotP thread. And it's similar to the "Evewrybody above Legends is a Headmaster" mandate from Titans Return.
The mandate is evident in the Dinobots, in Jazz and Moonracer, in making Dreadwind and Blackwing from the Skydive and Air Raid molds (instead of something more suitable, especially in Dreadwind's case). It's also present at the Voyager level, resulting in Grimlock and Starscream's molds being made into combiner torsos. While I think the Dinobots, Jazz, Moonracer, and Starscream/Elita pull it off with aplomb... it's still something they weren't originally but had to be because of the line's directives.
If Skytread had been planned to have separate robot modes for his components - which I doubt - there would likely be vestigial traces.
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 12th, 2018 @ 11:31am CST
o.supreme wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.
I know you added that "retail" part to justify Punch/Counterpunch, but I'd like to see said mandate. Also you can spin it the opposite way. One could say that Skytread was initially planned to be part of PotP, but because it was reduced to a 12 month line, Hasbro cut costs by ditching the individual bot mode designs, and just released it as a deluxe for the Siege line. ...I'm not saying this has any merit, but it is just as likely theorizing.
I'm pretty sure someone has a quote from an interview or announcement handy about it, I seem to recall reading it in the PotP thread. And it's similar to the "Evewrybody above Legends is a Headmaster" mandate from Titans Return.
The mandate is evident in the Dinobots, in Jazz and Moonracer, in making Dreadwind and Blackwing from the Skydive and Air Raid molds (instead of something more suitable, especially in Dreadwind's case). It's also present at the Voyager level, resulting in Grimlock and Starscream's molds being made into combiner torsos. While I think the Dinobots, Jazz, Moonracer, and Starscream/Elita pull it off with aplomb... it's still something they weren't originally but had to be because of the line's directives.
If Skytread had been planned to have separate robot modes for his components - which I doubt - there would likely be vestigial traces.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993764)
Posted by ScottyP on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:18pm CST
Posted by ScottyP on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:18pm CST
I wouldn't use the term "bothered", but I am definitely disappointed that it doesn't. This is not because I necessarily want a Flywheels like that, it's because PotP Battletrap was amazing and I would like more toys similar to it.Hellscream9999 wrote:Z3ROhour wrote:is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?
or is that just me?
maybe i missed a post.
I am, but I guess we're in the minority
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993766)
Posted by o.supreme on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:27pm CST
Posted by o.supreme on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:27pm CST
Honestly, my disappointment, doesn't come from the toys themselves, Both Battletrap, and Skytread are uniquely great on their own. It's just the lack of consistency on the part of Hasbro that bugs me. Make them both with individual bot modes & combined mode, or just a combined mode, is all I would wish.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993771)
Posted by Galvatronian on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:53pm CST
Posted by Galvatronian on November 12th, 2018 @ 12:53pm CST
Hadn't quite seen it that way, as like some others I agreed that battletrap should have been like skytread, but you reminded me of the joy of him when I first got him (having no idea there was a combined mode) and just exactly why it won toy of the year.
On the other note, we ask for less hollow transformers, they give it, then we're unhappy they are smaller? it just stands to reason, you can't have tall toys, no hallowness, the same price, good in both alts modes AND that intuitive/complex but not too complex, with a twist of clever transformation, it just doesn't work. More plastic, higher price. Scale up sideswipe or hound by a cm (1/3 of an inch), and it's volume increases a lot, probably putting up to voyager price point. If you really want perfect bots to perfect scale, not just fun kids toys with a g1 aesthetic buy masterpiece!
On the other note, we ask for less hollow transformers, they give it, then we're unhappy they are smaller? it just stands to reason, you can't have tall toys, no hallowness, the same price, good in both alts modes AND that intuitive/complex but not too complex, with a twist of clever transformation, it just doesn't work. More plastic, higher price. Scale up sideswipe or hound by a cm (1/3 of an inch), and it's volume increases a lot, probably putting up to voyager price point. If you really want perfect bots to perfect scale, not just fun kids toys with a g1 aesthetic buy masterpiece!
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993774)
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 12th, 2018 @ 1:34pm CST
Posted by ZeldaTheSwordsman on November 12th, 2018 @ 1:34pm CST
Or, here's a thought, you people could stop acting like hollow thighs and such ruin a toy. Seriously, they aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be, get over it already.
I would rather have a Generations figure with hollow bits if it means said figure can stand next to both other CHUG toys and toys from mainline series (RiD, Unicron Trilogy, movieverse, Animated, Prime) without looking like a midget! That's half the fun of the CHUG toys in the first place. We're not asking for perfect scale, just for "good enough" scale. And the degree of shrinkage seen... It keeps them from being good enough.
I would rather have a Generations figure with hollow bits if it means said figure can stand next to both other CHUG toys and toys from mainline series (RiD, Unicron Trilogy, movieverse, Animated, Prime) without looking like a midget! That's half the fun of the CHUG toys in the first place. We're not asking for perfect scale, just for "good enough" scale. And the degree of shrinkage seen... It keeps them from being good enough.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993776)
Posted by Evil Eye on November 12th, 2018 @ 1:44pm CST
Technically speaking, they could probably make them better than they are AND sell them at the same price, but that would mean shaving a few pennies off the CEO's profit margin. As is I think Siege looks awesome, but pretending that they have no choice but to hollow things out is disingenuous.
Posted by Evil Eye on November 12th, 2018 @ 1:44pm CST
Galvatronian wrote:Hadn't quite seen it that way, as like some others I agreed that battletrap should have been like skytread, but you reminded me of the joy of him when I first got him (having no idea there was a combined mode) and just exactly why it won toy of the year.
On the other note, we ask for less hollow transformers, they give it, then we're unhappy they are smaller? it just stands to reason, you can't have tall toys, no hallowness, the same price, good in both alts modes AND that intuitive/complex but not too complex, with a twist of clever transformation, it just doesn't work. More plastic, higher price. Scale up sideswipe or hound by a cm (1/3 of an inch), and it's volume increases a lot, probably putting up to voyager price point. If you really want perfect bots to perfect scale, not just fun kids toys with a g1 aesthetic buy masterpiece!
Technically speaking, they could probably make them better than they are AND sell them at the same price, but that would mean shaving a few pennies off the CEO's profit margin. As is I think Siege looks awesome, but pretending that they have no choice but to hollow things out is disingenuous.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993782)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on November 12th, 2018 @ 2:29pm CST
Posted by AcademyofDrX on November 12th, 2018 @ 2:29pm CST
I'm not going to invalidate others' criticisms of size, I'm just going to say that I think this line is exactly what I'm looking for. My end goal is a complete CHUG set for the 1985 catalog,* and I think the WfC trilogy is going to slot into that perfectly. T30 / Prime Wars Legends for Minibots and Insecticons, Unite Warriors Devastator, PotP Dinobots, WfC for Deluxe cars (assuming the next two lines complete the lineup), the Classics seekers, and the Siege Voyager commanders. T30 and TR fill in the gaps.
Will they all scale perfectly together? No. Legends will be a little small, the Leaders like Blaster will be too big, but I want to split the difference between you accuracy and cartoon accuracy, and I think this will do it.
As it is, I expect shorter Autobot cars to fit better beside the minibots and Classics seekers. Some people are happy with their less show-accurate decade-old CHUG collections, and that's fine. But I don't have one yet and I would rather be getting in on the ground floor with this line. Sure beats trawling eBay for those older figures.
* Not including the Deluxe Insecticons of course
Will they all scale perfectly together? No. Legends will be a little small, the Leaders like Blaster will be too big, but I want to split the difference between you accuracy and cartoon accuracy, and I think this will do it.
As it is, I expect shorter Autobot cars to fit better beside the minibots and Classics seekers. Some people are happy with their less show-accurate decade-old CHUG collections, and that's fine. But I don't have one yet and I would rather be getting in on the ground floor with this line. Sure beats trawling eBay for those older figures.
* Not including the Deluxe Insecticons of course
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993783)
Posted by Emerje on November 12th, 2018 @ 2:44pm CST
Posted by Emerje on November 12th, 2018 @ 2:44pm CST
I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993793)
Posted by Wireless_Phantom on November 12th, 2018 @ 4:26pm CST
To be fair I think that the hole in the back is where the head goes. The fore-arms are a bit annoying but there may be a reason.
Posted by Wireless_Phantom on November 12th, 2018 @ 4:26pm CST
Emerje wrote:I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
To be fair I think that the hole in the back is where the head goes. The fore-arms are a bit annoying but there may be a reason.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993794)
Posted by Amelie on November 12th, 2018 @ 4:38pm CST
Posted by Amelie on November 12th, 2018 @ 4:38pm CST
Its possible the backs of the arms had to be hollow because of how the toy was being cast\molded.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993795)
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 12th, 2018 @ 5:19pm CST
The hollow forearms seem to be par for the course the past few years. Maybe something gets tucked away in there during transformation? The hole in the back, though, I think is more off putting, but it may not be as bad as it seems. Being a gray plastic prototype may be playing with our sense of depth, along with the bright photography lights creating strong shadows and contrasts along with the increased greebling in the sculpt, which is known to create a false sense of increased "depth" in an object. Other visual cues are also probably distorting our perception, such as the 5 mm hole, which actually seems to be protruding quite a ways out from the outer plane of the back. I think the bulk of that recess probably only goes about 1 mm or so deep. If you look lower in the back, where the deeper gap is, you start to get a sense that the majority of that recess isn't quite as drastic as it at first appears. Some in hand picks are going to answer a lot more questions, so we just have to be patient until then.
Posted by Wolfman Jake on November 12th, 2018 @ 5:19pm CST
Emerje wrote:I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
The hollow forearms seem to be par for the course the past few years. Maybe something gets tucked away in there during transformation? The hole in the back, though, I think is more off putting, but it may not be as bad as it seems. Being a gray plastic prototype may be playing with our sense of depth, along with the bright photography lights creating strong shadows and contrasts along with the increased greebling in the sculpt, which is known to create a false sense of increased "depth" in an object. Other visual cues are also probably distorting our perception, such as the 5 mm hole, which actually seems to be protruding quite a ways out from the outer plane of the back. I think the bulk of that recess probably only goes about 1 mm or so deep. If you look lower in the back, where the deeper gap is, you start to get a sense that the majority of that recess isn't quite as drastic as it at first appears. Some in hand picks are going to answer a lot more questions, so we just have to be patient until then.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993800)
Posted by Full-Tilt on November 12th, 2018 @ 5:33pm CST
forearms only appear to peg together, and it does not appear that the hands fold into the arms. Only reason I could see would be to bulk up the figure. I may be wrong though.
Posted by Full-Tilt on November 12th, 2018 @ 5:33pm CST
Wireless_Phantom wrote:Emerje wrote:I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
To be fair I think that the hole in the back is where the head goes. The fore-arms are a bit annoying but there may be a reason.
forearms only appear to peg together, and it does not appear that the hands fold into the arms. Only reason I could see would be to bulk up the figure. I may be wrong though.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993846)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 12th, 2018 @ 8:22pm CST
Thank you for bringing up casting, as that's the only real way to create the arms as a single piece.
What needs to be kept in mind is that casting 3-dimensional objects with a hollow interior, like an egg, can not be done as everything is a heavy solid chunk: you'd have to separate the halves and cast those. Of course that'd require more molds with drives up the cost for material, plus extra assembly. The hollow arms are a necessary evil here.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 12th, 2018 @ 8:22pm CST
Amelie wrote:Its possible the backs of the arms had to be hollow because of how the toy was being cast\molded.
Thank you for bringing up casting, as that's the only real way to create the arms as a single piece.
What needs to be kept in mind is that casting 3-dimensional objects with a hollow interior, like an egg, can not be done as everything is a heavy solid chunk: you'd have to separate the halves and cast those. Of course that'd require more molds with drives up the cost for material, plus extra assembly. The hollow arms are a necessary evil here.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993850)
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:10pm CST
I have been thinking about this a lot lately as well. One thing that has been sorely missing from Transformers toys are hands that slide in and out of the forearms via a tab (such as G1 Soundwave). I'd really like to see a return to that transformation concept again to overcome some of the hollow forearms, though I'm not sure I'd want to see that applied to the legs like with G1 Shockwave because it seems like there often was the problem of the upper legs sliding back into the lower legs due to friction wear or whatever.
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:10pm CST
Emerje wrote:I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
I have been thinking about this a lot lately as well. One thing that has been sorely missing from Transformers toys are hands that slide in and out of the forearms via a tab (such as G1 Soundwave). I'd really like to see a return to that transformation concept again to overcome some of the hollow forearms, though I'm not sure I'd want to see that applied to the legs like with G1 Shockwave because it seems like there often was the problem of the upper legs sliding back into the lower legs due to friction wear or whatever.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993852)
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:12pm CST
I hadn't thought of that issue. Still think nicer figures like Masterpiece would benefit from the hands sliding into the forearms. Bumblebee especially.
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:12pm CST
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Amelie wrote:Its possible the backs of the arms had to be hollow because of how the toy was being cast\molded.
Thank you for bringing up casting, as that's the only real way to create the arms as a single piece.
What needs to be kept in mind is that casting 3-dimensional objects with a hollow interior, like an egg, can not be done as everything is a heavy solid chunk: you'd have to separate the halves and cast those. Of course that'd require more molds with drives up the cost for material, plus extra assembly. The hollow arms are a necessary evil here.
I hadn't thought of that issue. Still think nicer figures like Masterpiece would benefit from the hands sliding into the forearms. Bumblebee especially.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993861)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:38pm CST
Telescoping limbs is one of my pet peeves actually, and I'm so happy that Hasbro devised an alternate mechanic for them for Combiner Wars on. So it uses more parts and molds, but the longevity is worth it.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:38pm CST
Seibertron wrote:Emerje wrote:I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.
How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.
Emerje
I have been thinking about this a lot lately as well. One thing that has been sorely missing from Transformers toys are hands that slide in and out of the forearms via a tab (such as G1 Soundwave). I'd really like to see a return to that transformation concept again to overcome some of the hollow forearms, though I'm not sure I'd want to see that applied to the legs like with G1 Shockwave because it seems like there often was the problem of the upper legs sliding back into the lower legs due to friction wear or whatever.
Telescoping limbs is one of my pet peeves actually, and I'm so happy that Hasbro devised an alternate mechanic for them for Combiner Wars on. So it uses more parts and molds, but the longevity is worth it.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993862)
Posted by william-james88 on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:41pm CST
I preffer a flap opening and folding the hand into the forearm. My problem with sliders is the friction aspect and having that outwards tab/button and slide visible, which kind of disrupts the look of the forearm.
Posted by william-james88 on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:41pm CST
Seibertron wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Amelie wrote:Its possible the backs of the arms had to be hollow because of how the toy was being cast\molded.
Thank you for bringing up casting, as that's the only real way to create the arms as a single piece.
What needs to be kept in mind is that casting 3-dimensional objects with a hollow interior, like an egg, can not be done as everything is a heavy solid chunk: you'd have to separate the halves and cast those. Of course that'd require more molds with drives up the cost for material, plus extra assembly. The hollow arms are a necessary evil here.
I hadn't thought of that issue. Still think nicer figures like Masterpiece would benefit from the hands sliding into the forearms. Bumblebee especially.
I preffer a flap opening and folding the hand into the forearm. My problem with sliders is the friction aspect and having that outwards tab/button and slide visible, which kind of disrupts the look of the forearm.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993864)
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:51pm CST
Moreso than a giant gaping hole where a fist was previously?
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:51pm CST
william-james88 wrote:Seibertron wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Amelie wrote:Its possible the backs of the arms had to be hollow because of how the toy was being cast\molded.
Thank you for bringing up casting, as that's the only real way to create the arms as a single piece.
What needs to be kept in mind is that casting 3-dimensional objects with a hollow interior, like an egg, can not be done as everything is a heavy solid chunk: you'd have to separate the halves and cast those. Of course that'd require more molds with drives up the cost for material, plus extra assembly. The hollow arms are a necessary evil here.
I hadn't thought of that issue. Still think nicer figures like Masterpiece would benefit from the hands sliding into the forearms. Bumblebee especially.
I preffer a flap opening and folding the hand into the forearm. My problem with sliders is the friction aspect and having that outwards tab/button and slide visible, which kind of disrupts the look of the forearm.
Moreso than a giant gaping hole where a fist was previously?
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993865)
Posted by william-james88 on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:55pm CST
No, thats why I preffer the flap I mentioned.
Posted by william-james88 on November 12th, 2018 @ 9:55pm CST
Seibertron wrote:william-james88 wrote:Seibertron wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Amelie wrote:Its possible the backs of the arms had to be hollow because of how the toy was being cast\molded.
Thank you for bringing up casting, as that's the only real way to create the arms as a single piece.
What needs to be kept in mind is that casting 3-dimensional objects with a hollow interior, like an egg, can not be done as everything is a heavy solid chunk: you'd have to separate the halves and cast those. Of course that'd require more molds with drives up the cost for material, plus extra assembly. The hollow arms are a necessary evil here.
I hadn't thought of that issue. Still think nicer figures like Masterpiece would benefit from the hands sliding into the forearms. Bumblebee especially.
I preffer a flap opening and folding the hand into the forearm. My problem with sliders is the friction aspect and having that outwards tab/button and slide visible, which kind of disrupts the look of the forearm.
Moreso than a giant gaping hole where a fist was previously?
No, thats why I preffer the flap I mentioned.
Re: Mass Analysis of the Transformers Siege Voyagers (1993866)
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 10:02pm CST
I completely glanced over the first part of your post. Doh! Yah, the flap method works well too. I'd still like to see that on Masterpiece Bumblebee at some point.
Posted by Seibertron on November 12th, 2018 @ 10:02pm CST
william-james88 wrote:No, thats why I preffer the flap I mentioned.
I completely glanced over the first part of your post. Doh! Yah, the flap method works well too. I'd still like to see that on Masterpiece Bumblebee at some point.
