Buyer beware: KO Menasor
Sunday, June 6th, 2010 3:12AM CDT
Categories: Toy News, Knock OffsPosted by: Dead Metal Views: 64,977
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KOToys has posted two images of an upcoming KO set of the Generation 1 Stunticons. What is interesting about this set is the fact that it comes with Deadend and Wildride which are usually replaced with two Technobots in all of the KO Menasor releases, making this set here closer to the original and thus harder to distinguish from it.
To view the original post over at KOtoys just click here.
Stay tuned to seibertron.com for all your Transformers related news!
To view the original post over at KOtoys just click here.
Stay tuned to seibertron.com for all your Transformers related news!
Credit(s): KOtoys
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Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082701)
Posted by steve2275 on June 6th, 2010 @ 4:21am CDT
Posted by steve2275 on June 6th, 2010 @ 4:21am CDT
thats damn good lookin rip off
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082705)
Posted by Relic Dinobot on June 6th, 2010 @ 5:03am CDT
Posted by Relic Dinobot on June 6th, 2010 @ 5:03am CDT
It still amazes me to no end that Hasbro and Takara aren't jumping onto these "re-issues" with all the recent combiner love we're getting from various sources like the PCCs, Movie Devastator, Superion and Bruticus. Sure they'd probably need to reverse engineer a couple older degraded molds but still... And they'd get the chance to secure 6 names (7 with the Constructicons) at once. Combiners are great play value and have great potential as reissue/repaint fodder, too. Just look at RiD Ruination. 
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082712)
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 5:56am CDT
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 5:56am CDT
Rated X wrote:This is great !! I want one !!! I only have Dead End, Wildrider, and Breakdown from my childhood G1 collection. I could care less about the value. Heck, it wouldnt bother me if the stamped "knock off" where "Hasbro" used to be. It's not like my collection is going to be inspected by my visitors. I have it for display purposes, and nothing attracts attention better than something "retro".
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082713)
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 5:58am CDT
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 5:58am CDT
I almost forgot to ask...whats the going price on a set like this ???
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082715)
Posted by Flux Convoy on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:31am CDT
Posted by Flux Convoy on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:31am CDT
Come to poppa!
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082716)
Posted by steve2275 on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:33am CDT
they'd rather make ugly ass bayverse toys
Posted by steve2275 on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:33am CDT
Relic Dinobot wrote:It still amazes me to no end that Hasbro and Takara aren't jumping onto these "re-issues" with all the recent combiner love we're getting from various sources like the PCCs, Movie Devastator, Superion and Bruticus. Sure they'd probably need to reverse engineer a couple older degraded molds but still... And they'd get the chance to secure 6 names (7 with the Constructicons) at once. Combiners are great play value and have great potential as reissue/repaint fodder, too. Just look at RiD Ruination.
they'd rather make ugly ass bayverse toys
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082721)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:44am CDT
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:44am CDT
If it has the launcher, he's so mine. I'd turn him into an Autobot for Metroplex...that is, if I had the repainting skills.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082722)
Posted by Zeds on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:47am CDT
Posted by Zeds on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:47am CDT
I have been considering expanding my KO collection as more are being released. Reasons:
1. Obviously cheaper than the originals.
2. I keep them MISB to display.
3. It will be less money to insure them.
4. I don't care if people touch them or something happens to them.
The only con would be supporting the KO marketplace which I would blame Hasbro for for not giving fans what they want in the first place.
1. Obviously cheaper than the originals.
2. I keep them MISB to display.
3. It will be less money to insure them.
4. I don't care if people touch them or something happens to them.
The only con would be supporting the KO marketplace which I would blame Hasbro for for not giving fans what they want in the first place.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082734)
Posted by Scaleface on June 6th, 2010 @ 7:42am CDT
Posted by Scaleface on June 6th, 2010 @ 7:42am CDT
That common KO set not only has 2 Technobots, it's all plastic, and the rub symbols are fake (the are just solid black squares of sticker! they don't have heat-sensitive material!). Some early versions had normal Decepticon and Autobot symbols, but later versions changed it to been weird generic faction labels (I think the actually wanted to move away from using copywritten symbols!) It has all Motormaster's assessories, but none of the accessories for the other robots. It does feature a working launcher for Motormaster. Also, the box for the common KO is EASILY not a real Hasbro/Takara item.
As you can see here, the earlier Chinese release has better stickers with real factions. Later version for US release had faction symbols changed or remove.
They also made a mini-version of that KO, where the combined size is about that of a large Deluxe, and the individual robots are a bit bigger than a WST toy:
As you can see here, the earlier Chinese release has better stickers with real factions. Later version for US release had faction symbols changed or remove.
They also made a mini-version of that KO, where the combined size is about that of a large Deluxe, and the individual robots are a bit bigger than a WST toy:
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082736)
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 7:51am CDT
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 7:51am CDT
nice to see the other 2 Stunticons make a return.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082737)
Posted by Sid Burn on June 6th, 2010 @ 7:53am CDT
thats the BIG CON, supporting the KO marketplace is asking to get burned the next time you want to purchase an authentic hasbro or takara G1 mold.
every serious collector knows what a pain in the ass it is to buy a cyclonus, mirage, any of the dinobots or devastator (to name a few) because they have been reproduced outside of hasbro at lesser quality. I hate that I am well versed in how to spot the fakes, but it is almost essential if you want a full G1 collection.
KO manufacturers should NOT be supported. Everyone cries foul over scalpers (remember movie bb?) but its cool to make KOs? To me, a transformer display with KOs as cheap stand ins is not a transformers display.
Posted by Sid Burn on June 6th, 2010 @ 7:53am CDT
Zeds wrote:The only con would be supporting the KO marketplace
thats the BIG CON, supporting the KO marketplace is asking to get burned the next time you want to purchase an authentic hasbro or takara G1 mold.
every serious collector knows what a pain in the ass it is to buy a cyclonus, mirage, any of the dinobots or devastator (to name a few) because they have been reproduced outside of hasbro at lesser quality. I hate that I am well versed in how to spot the fakes, but it is almost essential if you want a full G1 collection.
KO manufacturers should NOT be supported. Everyone cries foul over scalpers (remember movie bb?) but its cool to make KOs? To me, a transformer display with KOs as cheap stand ins is not a transformers display.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082743)
Posted by krayziejones on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:10am CDT
Posted by krayziejones on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:10am CDT
ko toys suck and should be shut down. i cant believe you guys wanna support that crap. get a job and buy the real stuff so you can be proud when you look at your collection. instead your looking at your collection thinking, i have a shelf full of crap. if you guys wanna pretend to have a quality collection, go ahead cause i cant stop you.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082745)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:14am CDT
If it makes you feel better, to me KO's are good for only one thing: kitbashing.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:14am CDT
krayziejones wrote:ko toys suck and should be shut down. i cant believe you guys wanna support that crap. get a job and buy the real stuff so you can be proud when you look at your collection. instead your looking at your collection thinking, i have a shelf full of crap. if you guys wanna pretend to have a quality collection, go ahead cause i cant stop you.
If it makes you feel better, to me KO's are good for only one thing: kitbashing.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082746)
Posted by Scaleface on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:17am CDT
Posted by Scaleface on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:17am CDT
I use them to get accessories, kitbashes, to get toys in sized they were never released (WST Dirge and Ramjet! GIANT Mini-Cons) or to get colors never released.
I also might consider them on the rare occasion that the original toy just isn't available for any reasonable price - like my Sky Garry or Galaxy Shuttle KOs.
I also might consider them on the rare occasion that the original toy just isn't available for any reasonable price - like my Sky Garry or Galaxy Shuttle KOs.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082752)
Posted by Flux Convoy on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:47am CDT
Posted by Flux Convoy on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:47am CDT
Newsflash, I have a job and I do what I damn well please with my money. Or you can keep crying a river over things that won't change and be completely ineffectual in the process.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082753)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:58am CDT
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:58am CDT
Is there any site that has an ongoing article on how to spot the KO TFs? I know there used to be forum posts, but the ones I checked recently had a lot of broken images.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082756)
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:19am CDT
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:19am CDT
I personally see plenty of reasons someone might buy a KO instead of the real thing. Fair enough if you don't want to, but if the option is there its good, IMO.
As to a G1 collection of 100% authentic toys being "better" than one full of Knock-offs? Really? You're discussing how much "better" you are than someone else because you've paid a hell of a lot more for slightly higher quality plastic (and occassionally metal) toys?
People might be buying KOs to give to their kids to play with, and can't/won't spend hundreds of dollars for something that's not unlikely to get broken regardless of how high the standards are. People might have jobs, but have other expenditure that takes precedence over buying back childhood memories. The KOs might be for kitbashes. What people do with their money might not be all that important to someone who's so clearly "better" than them?
edit: I don't think it's all that difficult to tell the KOs from the real thing either. Certainly there's a few examples that prove otherwise, but most packaged examples are quite different. If Hasbro/Takara want to stop these guys, then that's their right, as its those companies the KO sellers are theoretically stealing money from.
As to a G1 collection of 100% authentic toys being "better" than one full of Knock-offs? Really? You're discussing how much "better" you are than someone else because you've paid a hell of a lot more for slightly higher quality plastic (and occassionally metal) toys?
People might be buying KOs to give to their kids to play with, and can't/won't spend hundreds of dollars for something that's not unlikely to get broken regardless of how high the standards are. People might have jobs, but have other expenditure that takes precedence over buying back childhood memories. The KOs might be for kitbashes. What people do with their money might not be all that important to someone who's so clearly "better" than them?
edit: I don't think it's all that difficult to tell the KOs from the real thing either. Certainly there's a few examples that prove otherwise, but most packaged examples are quite different. If Hasbro/Takara want to stop these guys, then that's their right, as its those companies the KO sellers are theoretically stealing money from.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082757)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:20am CDT
HighEndTF's.com has an article on Counterfeit figures.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:20am CDT
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Is there any site that has an ongoing article on how to spot the KO TFs? I know there used to be forum posts, but the ones I checked recently had a lot of broken images.
HighEndTF's.com has an article on Counterfeit figures.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082758)
Posted by krayziejones on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:24am CDT
Posted by krayziejones on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:24am CDT
look, do what you wanna do with your money. you're right, i shouldn't worry about it. me personally, i will never buy knock offs because i like quality. im not trying to come across like i'm better than anyone cause i spend money on originals. i do think i was a little harsh in my last comment but i still think ko toys suck.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082760)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:41am CDT
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:41am CDT
The only really bad thing I can see about KOs like this is that they pollute the market for G1 collectors. Either out of ignorance or malicious intent, they can be passed off too easily as the real deal. Especially when out of the package. So a site like HighEndTFs is great. It should really be posted more prominently here.
Can't really blame anyone for wanting to buy an official-looking KO. It has the same appeal as the old reissues: it's a shiny new old TF. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), from what I understand, the quality is still KO.
Still, there's some neat items. Like the small combiners. Or even the KO Star Saber, which is good to get some of those missing accessories.
Can't really blame anyone for wanting to buy an official-looking KO. It has the same appeal as the old reissues: it's a shiny new old TF. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), from what I understand, the quality is still KO.
Still, there's some neat items. Like the small combiners. Or even the KO Star Saber, which is good to get some of those missing accessories.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082767)
Posted by dragons on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:07am CDT
1 for some poeple who have disgreminated by bosess, fired, layed off can you blame them
2 if you dont have or want to spend 400 or more for complete combiner when ko is cheaper go for it there chouice i have few ko combiners 1 original cbominer with 1 or 2 ko combiner limbs attached to it but im satisfied i did not have to pay 500 or more weapons cheaper than the acual figure itself loose on ebay unless you have orignal predaiking that would cost you 600 or more almost same as fortress maximus
Posted by dragons on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:07am CDT
ko toys suck and should be shut down. i cant believe you guys wanna support that crap. get a job and buy the real stuff so you can be proud when you look at your collection. instead your looking at your collection thinking, i have a shelf full of crap. if you guys wanna pretend to have a quality collection, go ahead cause i cant stop you.
1 for some poeple who have disgreminated by bosess, fired, layed off can you blame them
2 if you dont have or want to spend 400 or more for complete combiner when ko is cheaper go for it there chouice i have few ko combiners 1 original cbominer with 1 or 2 ko combiner limbs attached to it but im satisfied i did not have to pay 500 or more weapons cheaper than the acual figure itself loose on ebay unless you have orignal predaiking that would cost you 600 or more almost same as fortress maximus
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082772)
Posted by Sid Burn on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:18am CDT
you clearly havent done your research on G1 KOs, I dont think anyone against KOs is talking about the dimestore obvious knockoffs, we are talking about the KOs that are DESIGNED to fool collector's into overpaying for cheap copies.
mirage, sunstreaker, dinobots, scourge, cyclonus, devastator, gnaw, wheeljack, reflector, the insecticons, prowl, optimus prime as well as all the minibots have been KO'ed with the intent to mislead collector's into paying for something of lesser quality. That is more that a "few"
please do some research before you spout off.
exactly, the problem here is that they are being manufactured with the INTENT of screwing people over, why did EBAY remove KOs? for this very reason, sellers trying to fleece people out of their money.
Posted by Sid Burn on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:18am CDT
craggy wrote:I personally see plenty of reasons someone might buy a KO instead of the real thing. Fair enough if you don't want to, but if the option is there its good, IMO.
I don't think it's all that difficult to tell the KOs from the real thing either. Certainly there's a few examples that prove otherwise, but most packaged examples are quite different. If Hasbro/Takara want to stop these guys, then that's their right, as its those companies the KO sellers are theoretically stealing money from.
you clearly havent done your research on G1 KOs, I dont think anyone against KOs is talking about the dimestore obvious knockoffs, we are talking about the KOs that are DESIGNED to fool collector's into overpaying for cheap copies.
mirage, sunstreaker, dinobots, scourge, cyclonus, devastator, gnaw, wheeljack, reflector, the insecticons, prowl, optimus prime as well as all the minibots have been KO'ed with the intent to mislead collector's into paying for something of lesser quality. That is more that a "few"
please do some research before you spout off.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:The only really bad thing I can see about KOs like this is that they pollute the market for G1 collectors. Either out of ignorance or malicious intent, they can be passed off too easily as the real deal. Especially when out of the package.
exactly, the problem here is that they are being manufactured with the INTENT of screwing people over, why did EBAY remove KOs? for this very reason, sellers trying to fleece people out of their money.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082774)
Posted by Sid Burn on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:33am CDT
maybe people who are layed off from their jobs dont need to be expanding a transformer collection. Collecting is a hobby where pay to play rules apply. No one is forcing you to buy transformers.
by creating a demand for KOs, you expand the market and insure more KOs in the future. Maybe in the future you WILL want a legit complete combiner... maybe other tf collector's don't want to sift through the crap produced by Zhong Jin and other KO manufacturers.
Either way I think collectors who purchase these items are doing a disservice to the tf community.
Posted by Sid Burn on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:33am CDT
dragons wrote:
1 for some poeple who have disgreminated by bosess, fired, layed off can you blame them
maybe people who are layed off from their jobs dont need to be expanding a transformer collection. Collecting is a hobby where pay to play rules apply. No one is forcing you to buy transformers.
by creating a demand for KOs, you expand the market and insure more KOs in the future. Maybe in the future you WILL want a legit complete combiner... maybe other tf collector's don't want to sift through the crap produced by Zhong Jin and other KO manufacturers.
Either way I think collectors who purchase these items are doing a disservice to the tf community.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082775)
Posted by Torneira on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:35am CDT
Posted by Torneira on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:35am CDT
When I get my wife knocked up I will buy cheap knock offs.
That way my child can play with Transformers without hurting my wallet or my eyes when it get trashed.
By the way you can't blame knock-offs to be ripping of buyers thinking it's an original. It's the seller that needs to be held responsible for this.
That way my child can play with Transformers without hurting my wallet or my eyes when it get trashed.
By the way you can't blame knock-offs to be ripping of buyers thinking it's an original. It's the seller that needs to be held responsible for this.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082782)
Posted by Bouncy X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:44am CDT
Posted by Bouncy X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:44am CDT
wow, those totally look legit. obviously if you buy them in package you know they aren't official but if you ever find them on their own...i could see how someone might think its official. and wow they actually put two character from the technobots in there as a replacement? weird. lol
but i mean toy quality aside, these look near identical so how come these sorta companies aren't getting their asses sued on a daily basis? how are they legally able to make and sell these?
but i mean toy quality aside, these look near identical so how come these sorta companies aren't getting their asses sued on a daily basis? how are they legally able to make and sell these?
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082787)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:57am CDT
They can't, everything they do is illegal to various degrees. The main problem is that often the company information is plain missing to avoid detection, on both the packaging, and the toys they make.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:57am CDT
Bouncy X wrote:wow, those totally look legit. obviously if you buy them in package you know they aren't official but if you ever find them on their own...i could see how someone might think its official. and wow they actually put two character from the technobots in there as a replacement? weird. lol
but i mean toy quality aside, these look near identical so how come these sorta companies aren't getting their asses sued on a daily basis? how are they legally able to make and sell these?
They can't, everything they do is illegal to various degrees. The main problem is that often the company information is plain missing to avoid detection, on both the packaging, and the toys they make.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082789)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 11:21am CDT
Er ... when you go up the food chain, even at the highest point, everyone is selling them at some point.
Sometiems even toy stores get suckered. A bunch of KO Metroplexes got shipped to BBTS instead of the real reissue ones and BBTS was left footing the bill after it was noticed they were KOs.
I don't mind these "high end" KOs being sold AS KOs. Hell, KO toys is called "KO Toys". But when someone on ebay fools a collector into buying soemthign they don't want to ... well, that's just not right.
And, sadly, someday these KOS will get mixed up with originals. Out of sheer ignorance.
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 11:21am CDT
Torneira wrote:When I get my wife knocked up I will buy cheap knock offs.
That way my child can play with Transformers without hurting my wallet or my eyes when it get trashed.
By the way you can't blame knock-offs to be ripping of buyers thinking it's an original. It's the seller that needs to be held responsible for this.
Er ... when you go up the food chain, even at the highest point, everyone is selling them at some point.
Sometiems even toy stores get suckered. A bunch of KO Metroplexes got shipped to BBTS instead of the real reissue ones and BBTS was left footing the bill after it was noticed they were KOs.
I don't mind these "high end" KOs being sold AS KOs. Hell, KO toys is called "KO Toys". But when someone on ebay fools a collector into buying soemthign they don't want to ... well, that's just not right.
And, sadly, someday these KOS will get mixed up with originals. Out of sheer ignorance.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082794)
Posted by Bouncy X on June 6th, 2010 @ 11:59am CDT
yean but isnt the fact the toys are clearly identical copies enough to warrant suing or arresting or whatever? i understand the company logos etc. may not be present but like in this particular case...they look exactly the same down to the color scheme. so you'd think that is breaking some copyright issue or whatnot. or is the fact they are made of cheaper or even just different material enough to dissuade things in the technical eyes of these laws?
Posted by Bouncy X on June 6th, 2010 @ 11:59am CDT
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Bouncy X wrote:wow, those totally look legit. obviously if you buy them in package you know they aren't official but if you ever find them on their own...i could see how someone might think its official. and wow they actually put two character from the technobots in there as a replacement? weird. lol
but i mean toy quality aside, these look near identical so how come these sorta companies aren't getting their asses sued on a daily basis? how are they legally able to make and sell these?
They can't, everything they do is illegal to various degrees. The main problem is that often the company information is plain missing to avoid detection, on both the packaging, and the toys they make.
yean but isnt the fact the toys are clearly identical copies enough to warrant suing or arresting or whatever? i understand the company logos etc. may not be present but like in this particular case...they look exactly the same down to the color scheme. so you'd think that is breaking some copyright issue or whatnot. or is the fact they are made of cheaper or even just different material enough to dissuade things in the technical eyes of these laws?
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082796)
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 12:14pm CDT
Yes; you just need to know who you need to sue. Plus, the KO's are pretty obvious and from small time companies, who quickly go out of business. That pretty much spoils Hasbro's plans on taking them to court, which could take years.
The furthest Hasbro has gone so far is ordering stores, spefically discount chains like Big Lots! to not carry KO's of Transformer toys during the movie craze.
Posted by Jelze Bunnycat on June 6th, 2010 @ 12:14pm CDT
Bouncy X wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Bouncy X wrote:wow, those totally look legit. obviously if you buy them in package you know they aren't official but if you ever find them on their own...i could see how someone might think its official. and wow they actually put two character from the technobots in there as a replacement? weird. lol
but i mean toy quality aside, these look near identical so how come these sorta companies aren't getting their asses sued on a daily basis? how are they legally able to make and sell these?
They can't, everything they do is illegal to various degrees. The main problem is that often the company information is plain missing to avoid detection, on both the packaging, and the toys they make.
yean but isnt the fact the toys are clearly identical copies enough to warrant suing or arresting or whatever? i understand the company logos etc. may not be present but like in this particular case...they look exactly the same down to the color scheme. so you'd think that is breaking some copyright issue or whatnot. or is the fact they are made of cheaper or even just different material enough to dissuade things in the technical eyes of these laws?
Yes; you just need to know who you need to sue. Plus, the KO's are pretty obvious and from small time companies, who quickly go out of business. That pretty much spoils Hasbro's plans on taking them to court, which could take years.
The furthest Hasbro has gone so far is ordering stores, spefically discount chains like Big Lots! to not carry KO's of Transformer toys during the movie craze.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082801)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 12:42pm CDT
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 12:42pm CDT
Many of you would do well to review information regarding KOs to separate fact from myth.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Bootleg
Our own rationalization seems to be the only legitimate reason, if you can call it one, for the purchase of KO items of any kind.
I have 3 reasons rationalized:
1.) Assist in properly identifiying authentic items when I enter the market for a figure. I may pick up 1 (at most), and it's sold soon after.
2.) Perhaps a 'clear' variant or recolor that would most likely never be produced by Hasbro/TT. For example, Clear Sludge and Slag.
3.) A stand-in until I can get an authentic figure if I want it badly enough. I have 2 KOs right now. G1 Defensor and Devastator. I'm in the hunt for original MIB, stickers unapplied samples. When I find them, the KOs will be gone from my collection. I suspect Menasor will join Devastator and Defensor.
My reasons are no better or worse than anyone else's. The fact is, they are all wrong, no matter how we rationalize them. Selling and purchasing KOs is wrong and it amounts to theft.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Bootleg
Our own rationalization seems to be the only legitimate reason, if you can call it one, for the purchase of KO items of any kind.
I have 3 reasons rationalized:
1.) Assist in properly identifiying authentic items when I enter the market for a figure. I may pick up 1 (at most), and it's sold soon after.
2.) Perhaps a 'clear' variant or recolor that would most likely never be produced by Hasbro/TT. For example, Clear Sludge and Slag.
3.) A stand-in until I can get an authentic figure if I want it badly enough. I have 2 KOs right now. G1 Defensor and Devastator. I'm in the hunt for original MIB, stickers unapplied samples. When I find them, the KOs will be gone from my collection. I suspect Menasor will join Devastator and Defensor.
My reasons are no better or worse than anyone else's. The fact is, they are all wrong, no matter how we rationalize them. Selling and purchasing KOs is wrong and it amounts to theft.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082804)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:12pm CDT
Get your facts straight, please. You may end up damging the reputation of legitimate retailers. BBTS has never sold KO Metroplex. It was TFsource. In fact, TFsource continues to sell them to this day:
KO Metroplex in stock at TFsource
http://www.tfsource.com/products/view/product_id/840/
BBTS official statement on KO Metroplex
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... lex/14804/
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:12pm CDT
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Torneira wrote:When I get my wife knocked up I will buy cheap knock offs.
That way my child can play with Transformers without hurting my wallet or my eyes when it get trashed.
By the way you can't blame knock-offs to be ripping of buyers thinking it's an original. It's the seller that needs to be held responsible for this.
Er ... when you go up the food chain, even at the highest point, everyone is selling them at some point.
Sometiems even toy stores get suckered. A bunch of KO Metroplexes got shipped to BBTS instead of the real reissue ones and BBTS was left footing the bill after it was noticed they were KOs.
I don't mind these "high end" KOs being sold AS KOs. Hell, KO toys is called "KO Toys". But when someone on ebay fools a collector into buying soemthign they don't want to ... well, that's just not right.
And, sadly, someday these KOS will get mixed up with originals. Out of sheer ignorance.
Get your facts straight, please. You may end up damging the reputation of legitimate retailers. BBTS has never sold KO Metroplex. It was TFsource. In fact, TFsource continues to sell them to this day:
KO Metroplex in stock at TFsource
http://www.tfsource.com/products/view/product_id/840/
BBTS official statement on KO Metroplex
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... lex/14804/
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082806)
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:16pm CDT
just because something is illegal does not necessarily make it wrong. Pretty sure no American can say otherwise with a straight face.
I also don't see how me spending money on a KO of a toy that Hasbro/TT are not selling in stores is costing them money. Honestly, the only KOs I do have are some Legends-sized Constructicons I got for a couple of pounds, but if I were to go and buy a KO of something that hasn't been reissued, I wouldn't feel like I was stealing from Hasbro. The company making these is stealing the real manufacturer's intellectual property, if not their actual property in the molds for these things.
What I'm doing is refusing to pay some guy who has hoarded these things in-package (thus depriving kids at the time of getting them to play with) for 25years of the £200 he's charging for something that cost £40 or something when it was released. And I'm still getting something inferior, and well aware of it. Outside of the comic-book market, I can't think of such drastic inflation in prices over the years.
Besides, I'm going to open toys when I buy them. If I was to buy a boxed Menasor from the 80s, and open it, I'm sure some collectors would be shocked and appalled. If I buy a KO, that original is still there for someone who likes having MISB collectibles.
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:16pm CDT
HighPrime wrote:My reasons are no better or worse than anyone else's. The fact is, they are all wrong, no matter how we rationalize them. Selling and purchasing KOs is wrong and it amounts to theft.
just because something is illegal does not necessarily make it wrong. Pretty sure no American can say otherwise with a straight face.
I also don't see how me spending money on a KO of a toy that Hasbro/TT are not selling in stores is costing them money. Honestly, the only KOs I do have are some Legends-sized Constructicons I got for a couple of pounds, but if I were to go and buy a KO of something that hasn't been reissued, I wouldn't feel like I was stealing from Hasbro. The company making these is stealing the real manufacturer's intellectual property, if not their actual property in the molds for these things.
What I'm doing is refusing to pay some guy who has hoarded these things in-package (thus depriving kids at the time of getting them to play with) for 25years of the £200 he's charging for something that cost £40 or something when it was released. And I'm still getting something inferior, and well aware of it. Outside of the comic-book market, I can't think of such drastic inflation in prices over the years.
Besides, I'm going to open toys when I buy them. If I was to buy a boxed Menasor from the 80s, and open it, I'm sure some collectors would be shocked and appalled. If I buy a KO, that original is still there for someone who likes having MISB collectibles.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082807)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:28pm CDT
My statements have nothing to do with law. And you've proved my point; rationalization on what justifies a 'comfy' feeling in your mind on the legitimacy of buying a KO.
Hasbro and Takara make transformers for one reason: money. There's a market for it. It's obvious that the KO markers want a piece of this action. This robs Hasbro/TT of the money due them for their ideas/inventions. Not only that, when these sort of KOs flood the market, it lessens the chances that authentic reissues will be made as the market is saturated. Even worse, these Kos damage the reputation of Hasbro/TT. Have you ever held KO wheeljack in your hand and an authentic Wheeljack from Hasbro/TT? The people who aren't TF-savy associate the lack of quality with Hasbro/TT and lose trust. This damges the brand.
What I'm talking about is theft of intellectual propety. These KO company have absolutely no right to be selling anything with the Transformers brand name on it, let alone duplicate copies of them.
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:28pm CDT
craggy wrote:HighPrime wrote:My reasons are no better or worse than anyone else's. The fact is, they are all wrong, no matter how we rationalize them. Selling and purchasing KOs is wrong and it amounts to theft.
just because something is illegal does not necessarily make it wrong. Pretty sure no American can say otherwise with a straight face.
I also don't see how me spending money on a KO of a toy that Hasbro/TT are not selling in stores is costing them money. Honestly, the only KOs I do have are some Legends-sized Constructicons I got for a couple of pounds, but if I were to go and buy a KO of something that hasn't been reissued, I wouldn't feel like I was stealing from Hasbro. The company making these is stealing the real manufacturer's intellectual property, if not their actual property in the molds for these things.
What I'm doing is refusing to pay some guy who has hoarded these things in-package (thus depriving kids at the time of getting them to play with) for 25years of the £200 he's charging for something that cost £40 or something when it was released. And I'm still getting something inferior, and well aware of it. Outside of the comic-book market, I can't think of such drastic inflation in prices over the years.
Besides, I'm going to open toys when I buy them. If I was to buy a boxed Menasor from the 80s, and open it, I'm sure some collectors would be shocked and appalled. If I buy a KO, that original is still there for someone who likes having MISB collectibles.
My statements have nothing to do with law. And you've proved my point; rationalization on what justifies a 'comfy' feeling in your mind on the legitimacy of buying a KO.
Hasbro and Takara make transformers for one reason: money. There's a market for it. It's obvious that the KO markers want a piece of this action. This robs Hasbro/TT of the money due them for their ideas/inventions. Not only that, when these sort of KOs flood the market, it lessens the chances that authentic reissues will be made as the market is saturated. Even worse, these Kos damage the reputation of Hasbro/TT. Have you ever held KO wheeljack in your hand and an authentic Wheeljack from Hasbro/TT? The people who aren't TF-savy associate the lack of quality with Hasbro/TT and lose trust. This damges the brand.
What I'm talking about is theft of intellectual propety. These KO company have absolutely no right to be selling anything with the Transformers brand name on it, let alone duplicate copies of them.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082813)
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:55pm CDT
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 1:55pm CDT
True, High Prime.
However, if Hasbro/TT did put out reissues of these toys maybe less people would buy the KOs? I don't know if there is a KO of G1 Hot Rod, but I bought the Reissue because I'd always wanted it, it was in the shops and I had the money. Same with Soundwave.
Yes, it is IP theft on the manufacturers part, but I see less of a problem with KOs of decades old toys that are not being sold any more by the original manufacturers than I do, say KOs of the new Universe or TFA lines.
To people confusing KOs (often clearly identifiable as such - TRANSMORPHERS or SUPER ROBOTO MCCHANGE-A-ROONIE on the box) with legit products and damaging Hasbro's good name, those folks are pretty silly. And you're blaming the unscrupulous for the actions of the unintelligent.
However, if Hasbro/TT did put out reissues of these toys maybe less people would buy the KOs? I don't know if there is a KO of G1 Hot Rod, but I bought the Reissue because I'd always wanted it, it was in the shops and I had the money. Same with Soundwave.
Yes, it is IP theft on the manufacturers part, but I see less of a problem with KOs of decades old toys that are not being sold any more by the original manufacturers than I do, say KOs of the new Universe or TFA lines.
To people confusing KOs (often clearly identifiable as such - TRANSMORPHERS or SUPER ROBOTO MCCHANGE-A-ROONIE on the box) with legit products and damaging Hasbro's good name, those folks are pretty silly. And you're blaming the unscrupulous for the actions of the unintelligent.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082816)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:02pm CDT
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:02pm CDT
Okay, I misremembered. TF Source, not BBTS. I don't think it'd damage their rep as I clearly say they were ripped off.
Anyhow, the intellectual thing doesn't bother me so much. It's true that it's wrong to trample on HasTak's intellectual property, especially to the point where they're copying the toy. I just ... don't care that much about that aspect. No excuses made here.
It bothers me MUCH more that people could trick others into buying something they didn't pay for and that these KOs could "contaminate" the collectors market. The quality, as I understand it, isn't up there with the originals, but that's pretty hard to tell from photos.
Yeah, I'm a selfish fan. I can admit it.
Anyhow, the intellectual thing doesn't bother me so much. It's true that it's wrong to trample on HasTak's intellectual property, especially to the point where they're copying the toy. I just ... don't care that much about that aspect. No excuses made here.
It bothers me MUCH more that people could trick others into buying something they didn't pay for and that these KOs could "contaminate" the collectors market. The quality, as I understand it, isn't up there with the originals, but that's pretty hard to tell from photos.
Yeah, I'm a selfish fan. I can admit it.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082824)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:25pm CDT
Let me preface this by saying we're justing chatting here. No one is looking for blood
I certaintly don't think I'm better than anyone else, either.
IP theft is theft. There's no time limits. You mentioned there's a difference between wrong and illegal, so I'm not going mention ongoing copyrights (directly)Even though Hasbro hasn't reissued a figure you want, there's still no justification for it's purchase as a KO other than personal rationalization that makes it OK.
Whether we're talking about a company that issues 'Super-Happy-Amazing 5-bot Dingyman' that looks like Menasor, but is not named as such or even the same size; or a like for like KO of the original Menasor; a KO is a KO. There's nothing stopping any of these companies from coming up with their own ideas and product.
And you're mixed up; I blamed the unscrupulous, not the unintelligent. They've got their own problems. However, I would consider it my duty to at least provide the education to the less-informed so that they can make an informed choice. I can't make them use the information to their advantage, though.
Now both of us are intelligent, informed consumers. We know full well what we're doing when we buy KOs and who we are harming; whether we want to believe it or not.
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:25pm CDT
craggy wrote:True, High Prime.
However, if Hasbro/TT did put out reissues of these toys maybe less people would buy the KOs? I don't know if there is a KO of G1 Hot Rod, but I bought the Reissue because I'd always wanted it, it was in the shops and I had the money. Same with Soundwave.
Yes, it is IP theft on the manufacturers part, but I see less of a problem with KOs of decades old toys that are not being sold any more by the original manufacturers than I do, say KOs of the new Universe or TFA lines.
To people confusing KOs (often clearly identifiable as such - TRANSMORPHERS or SUPER ROBOTO MCCHANGE-A-ROONIE on the box) with legit products and damaging Hasbro's good name, those folks are pretty silly. And you're blaming the unscrupulous for the actions of the unintelligent.
Let me preface this by saying we're justing chatting here. No one is looking for blood
I certaintly don't think I'm better than anyone else, either.IP theft is theft. There's no time limits. You mentioned there's a difference between wrong and illegal, so I'm not going mention ongoing copyrights (directly)
Even though Hasbro hasn't reissued a figure you want, there's still no justification for it's purchase as a KO other than personal rationalization that makes it OK.Whether we're talking about a company that issues 'Super-Happy-Amazing 5-bot Dingyman' that looks like Menasor, but is not named as such or even the same size; or a like for like KO of the original Menasor; a KO is a KO. There's nothing stopping any of these companies from coming up with their own ideas and product.
And you're mixed up; I blamed the unscrupulous, not the unintelligent. They've got their own problems. However, I would consider it my duty to at least provide the education to the less-informed so that they can make an informed choice. I can't make them use the information to their advantage, though.
Now both of us are intelligent, informed consumers. We know full well what we're doing when we buy KOs and who we are harming; whether we want to believe it or not.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082827)
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:30pm CDT
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:30pm CDT
oh, without a doubt it's personal rationalization, but that's the best kind 
don't worry, I realise we're having a discussion here. I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree (whilst actually kinda agreeing as well) that you don't like KOs at all, while I see a point to them until legit versions of the products come back into circulation. I've even seen some KOs that I've liked the look of more than the originals (for different colours, or sizes than the originals) but like I said, I've yet to take the plunge and actually buy some. I don't really begrudge anyone that does though.
don't worry, I realise we're having a discussion here. I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree (whilst actually kinda agreeing as well) that you don't like KOs at all, while I see a point to them until legit versions of the products come back into circulation. I've even seen some KOs that I've liked the look of more than the originals (for different colours, or sizes than the originals) but like I said, I've yet to take the plunge and actually buy some. I don't really begrudge anyone that does though.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082829)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:36pm CDT
I wouldn't go out and say I don't like KOs, but let's not kid ourselves on their legitimacy, either.
Good discussion
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 2:36pm CDT
craggy wrote:oh, without a doubt it's personal rationalization, but that's the best kind
don't worry, I realise we're having a discussion here. I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree (whilst actually kinda agreeing as well) that you don't like KOs at all, while I see a point to them until legit versions of the products come back into circulation. I've even seen some KOs that I've liked the look of more than the originals (for different colours, or sizes than the originals) but like I said, I've yet to take the plunge and actually buy some. I don't really begrudge anyone that does though.
I wouldn't go out and say I don't like KOs, but let's not kid ourselves on their legitimacy, either.
Good discussion
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082838)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 3:13pm CDT
No worries. Your point was understood, though. Additionally, I was generalizing damage to a retailers brand, not necessarily TFsource. The 2 places I frequent the most are TFsource and BBTS. Loyal patron to both for many years
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 3:13pm CDT
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Okay, I misremembered. TF Source, not BBTS. I don't think it'd damage their rep as I clearly say they were ripped off.
Anyhow, the intellectual thing doesn't bother me so much. It's true that it's wrong to trample on HasTak's intellectual property, especially to the point where they're copying the toy. I just ... don't care that much about that aspect. No excuses made here.
It bothers me MUCH more that people could trick others into buying something they didn't pay for and that these KOs could "contaminate" the collectors market. The quality, as I understand it, isn't up there with the originals, but that's pretty hard to tell from photos.
Yeah, I'm a selfish fan. I can admit it.
No worries. Your point was understood, though. Additionally, I was generalizing damage to a retailers brand, not necessarily TFsource. The 2 places I frequent the most are TFsource and BBTS. Loyal patron to both for many years
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082843)
Posted by Zeds on June 6th, 2010 @ 3:24pm CDT
Posted by Zeds on June 6th, 2010 @ 3:24pm CDT
From a cost standpoint though I think that I would rather display G1 KOs than the originals. Compare it to an extreme example of displaying a copy of a painting instead of the original or a copy of a Ming vase to the original.
In the end it is Hasbro/Tak/Tomy's collective fault for leaving this part of the collector's marketplace dry. Is it that hard for them to re-release these G1 combiner sets in their original boxed glory and slap on the box 25th anniversary edition? Not in my opinion. Lost opportunity that the KOs are simply taking advantage of. Could the KO producer do this? Yes but why would they? They realize what some would want to do with these figures once produced. Sad but true.
Some G1 collectors are at least happy that these KOs are being made, but I am a purist. I will not however judge those that want to buy these. Hell even I would get more (only have G1 Swoop when he came out to see what he was like) just from the cost savings vs. owing the originals. KOs will not go away. I do agree though that those that try to pass the off as originals to less educated buyers should be tarred and feathered. THAT IS NOT COOL. The KOs are here to stay though and in the end you have to accept the bad with the good as with everything in life. NOTHING IS PERFECT.
In the end it is Hasbro/Tak/Tomy's collective fault for leaving this part of the collector's marketplace dry. Is it that hard for them to re-release these G1 combiner sets in their original boxed glory and slap on the box 25th anniversary edition? Not in my opinion. Lost opportunity that the KOs are simply taking advantage of. Could the KO producer do this? Yes but why would they? They realize what some would want to do with these figures once produced. Sad but true.
Some G1 collectors are at least happy that these KOs are being made, but I am a purist. I will not however judge those that want to buy these. Hell even I would get more (only have G1 Swoop when he came out to see what he was like) just from the cost savings vs. owing the originals. KOs will not go away. I do agree though that those that try to pass the off as originals to less educated buyers should be tarred and feathered. THAT IS NOT COOL. The KOs are here to stay though and in the end you have to accept the bad with the good as with everything in life. NOTHING IS PERFECT.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082904)
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:40pm CDT
Posted by craggy on June 6th, 2010 @ 6:40pm CDT
I will say that I wish more KO manufacturers did crazy/boring colour schemes. The recent orange ramjet was pretty cool looking. The grey Blitzwing and Octane/Tankor were also nice.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082928)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:36pm CDT
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on June 6th, 2010 @ 8:36pm CDT
I gotta admit, looking at the KO Golds won me over. So shiny. I kinda want one.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082946)
Posted by LOST Cybertronian on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:27pm CDT
Posted by LOST Cybertronian on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:27pm CDT
I have the highquality KO dinobots and they are very hard to tell they are knockoffs. Grimlock even has Takara and Hasbro stamps on him.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082952)
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:48pm CDT
The dinobots maybe of higher quality, but that is relative. Of the recent high quality KOs, they are among the worst. Wheeljack gets the grand prize, though.
The dinobots are fairly easy to distinguish compared to the originals. For one the paint is a different shade and chips easy, the chrome on swoop is not even close to the original color or texture. Sludge is missing details on his chrome and plastic. Slags horns aren't sized properly. I could go on....
They are ok for stand-ins, I suppose. Perhaps I'm too snobbish, but they don't hold a candle to the originals.
If KO Menasor is anything like KO Defensor, though, the average not-taking-collecting-too-seriously crowd will be in for a treat.
Posted by HighPrime on June 6th, 2010 @ 9:48pm CDT
Unicronic wrote:I have the highquality KO dinobots and they are very hard to tell they are knockoffs. Grimlock even has Takara and Hasbro stamps on him.
The dinobots maybe of higher quality, but that is relative. Of the recent high quality KOs, they are among the worst. Wheeljack gets the grand prize, though.
The dinobots are fairly easy to distinguish compared to the originals. For one the paint is a different shade and chips easy, the chrome on swoop is not even close to the original color or texture. Sludge is missing details on his chrome and plastic. Slags horns aren't sized properly. I could go on....
They are ok for stand-ins, I suppose. Perhaps I'm too snobbish, but they don't hold a candle to the originals.
If KO Menasor is anything like KO Defensor, though, the average not-taking-collecting-too-seriously crowd will be in for a treat.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082960)
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:10pm CDT
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:10pm CDT
I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I ask why such negativity on knock offs ???
I dont even own any knock offs, but I support them to the fullest. I own an original G1 Bruticus, Devastator, Piranahcon, and Abominus plus 3 of the Stunticons from the 80's. Instead of worrying about the value of them, Im supporting the ever growing transformers fanbase by endorsing knock offs. If we dont pass on retro style toys to the younger generation at affordable prices, the hobby will die with us and those originals you cherish so much will decline in value like many other 80's collectibles with no fanbase.
Plus, I never got to complete my Menasor in the 80's because I wasnt doing well in school and mom and dad wasnt buying no rewards for F's on the report card...LOL I can finally get my hands on him brand new !!!
I dont even own any knock offs, but I support them to the fullest. I own an original G1 Bruticus, Devastator, Piranahcon, and Abominus plus 3 of the Stunticons from the 80's. Instead of worrying about the value of them, Im supporting the ever growing transformers fanbase by endorsing knock offs. If we dont pass on retro style toys to the younger generation at affordable prices, the hobby will die with us and those originals you cherish so much will decline in value like many other 80's collectibles with no fanbase.
Plus, I never got to complete my Menasor in the 80's because I wasnt doing well in school and mom and dad wasnt buying no rewards for F's on the report card...LOL I can finally get my hands on him brand new !!!
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082963)
Posted by GetterDragun on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:16pm CDT
Cause it's stealing? Your ok with people stealing Hasbro and Takara's intellectual property?
Posted by GetterDragun on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:16pm CDT
Rated X wrote:I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I ask why such negativity on knock offs ???
Cause it's stealing? Your ok with people stealing Hasbro and Takara's intellectual property?
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082965)
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:24pm CDT
Cmon...
The molds are 25 years old. The people who invented them are probally in a wheelchair. And Im sure the rights have been sold off so many times that the inventors probally dont even know the names of the people who currently own them. With all due respect, stop worrying about the corporate machine and think of the fans that made them rich...
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:24pm CDT
GetterDragun wrote:Rated X wrote:I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I ask why such negativity on knock offs ???
Cause it's stealing? Your ok with people stealing Hasbro and Takara's intellectual property?
Cmon...
The molds are 25 years old. The people who invented them are probally in a wheelchair. And Im sure the rights have been sold off so many times that the inventors probally dont even know the names of the people who currently own them. With all due respect, stop worrying about the corporate machine and think of the fans that made them rich...
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082966)
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:38pm CDT
Posted by Rated X on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:38pm CDT
Cmon...
The molds are 25 years old. The people who invented them are probally in a wheelchair. And Im sure the rights have been sold off so many times that the inventors probally dont even know the names of the people who currently own them. With all due respect, stop worrying about the corporate machine and think of the fans that made them rich.
bottom line if Hasbro and Takara want to stop knock-offs for good, they need to stop being greedy and re-issue everything. When they repealed prohibition at the end of the 1930's, all the mobsters went broke cause their gold mine (bootleg whiskey) was available legal to the public. Supply and demand determines what bootleggers are going to invest money into. With that being said, the current legal owners of the molds need to give the fans what they want and stop hoarding.
The molds are 25 years old. The people who invented them are probally in a wheelchair. And Im sure the rights have been sold off so many times that the inventors probally dont even know the names of the people who currently own them. With all due respect, stop worrying about the corporate machine and think of the fans that made them rich.
bottom line if Hasbro and Takara want to stop knock-offs for good, they need to stop being greedy and re-issue everything. When they repealed prohibition at the end of the 1930's, all the mobsters went broke cause their gold mine (bootleg whiskey) was available legal to the public. Supply and demand determines what bootleggers are going to invest money into. With that being said, the current legal owners of the molds need to give the fans what they want and stop hoarding.
Re: Buyer beware: KO Menasor (1082968)
Posted by Autobot032 on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:53pm CDT
Posted by Autobot032 on June 6th, 2010 @ 10:53pm CDT
The expected price for this set is between $70-85 I believe. (I read it earlier, hours and hours ago.)
That's much, much more affordable than some of the prices we've seen for the originals.
Now, with that out of the way, I think some of you are taking this way, way too seriously and you're bordering on abusive/trollish posting.
Some of you are being outright offensive with what you say, and all because of TOYS.
Some of you I agree with, some I disagree with, some of you I've agreed with in the past and have just lost my respect.
I understand the frustration of seeing people get ripped off with fakes, I understand being angry about paying full price and someone comes along and provides nearly (notice I said nearly) the same product for a fraction of what you paid.
I get all of that.
Here's the problem. Hasbro and TakaraTomy have done you the disservice. Not your fellow collector. While it doesn't exactly help matters when people buy bootlegs*, they are not causing the problem.
Hasbro and TakaraTomy are CREATING the problem by not giving us the combiners. They can reissue Convoy to the point I've lost count, in various packaging styles and schemes, but they can't reissue the combiners? No. That's a load of crap, and you and I both know it.
1.) The Bruticus Encore sold out fast in many places. It proved that there's a market for the combiners.
2.) Piranicon has been reissued twice (and now, possibly a third time), and he sold like hot cakes both times.
3.) Fans have been asking the companies to put these guys out for quite some time, and the answer is always "NO". (They give a lengthy, detailed response sometimes, but the gist is "NO".)
Well, there's a problem. You have the market for it, you have the demand, but no one's willing to make the product. Enter the bootleggers.
Here's something to think about...you blame the people buying the bootlegs for supporting this, but you too are helping to support this so called travesty. How? Because you're okay with taking "NO" for an answer and listening to Hasbro and TakaraTomy give us LAME ASS excuses as to why they aren't making these.
Not to mention, seeing what they gave us with an official Encore, was just pathetic. Mold warping, pieces not fitting right, etc. Even the bootleggers were able to produce sturdier and better looking bootlegs, recently.
So, you want your fellow collectors to overpay, you want to support HasTakTom giving us horribly made reissues, and you're willing to just take their excuses as the end all, be all of this issue?
No. Absolutely not. Not when a bootleg of equal or even just slightly lesser quality (I.E. a solid C-7.5-8.5 out of C-10) for much, much less than a used and abused 20 something is available.
Has everyone forgotten that this is supposed to be all in fun? Sure, the hobby can be expensive, but it's not supposed to be about the money. It's about having the toys. The toys were and are made for fun. They stand for fun. Even though it's big business, it doesn't have to be serious. Some of you folks taking this hard, just aren't having fun anymore. So really, what is the point?
I think it's great that you're purists (though I only agree with it to a certain extent), but I see now that you're not only taking it WAY too far, but you're starting to take it personally and making it personal and outright attacking your fellow fandomites.
That's ridiculous, it's crossing a line, and it's absolutely unnecessary.
If you want to be pure and keep your collection original, more power to you.
If your fellow collector wants to willingly buy a bootleg and save some money, more power to them.
If someone isn't bright enough to figure out that REMAKE means it's not ORIGINAL, then it's their fault they got rooked.
Anybody with common sense and simple reading ability can read the word remake and think "Oh, this is not an original from the 1980s. Okay. That explains why it's cheaper."
If you can't do that or you're not willing to, then it's your fault and you shouldn't blame anyone else for it.
This is absolutely ridiculous and downright offensive, and all because of toys. Some of you should be ashamed of what you said and how you said it. It was rude, cruel, and absolutely disgusting.
This reminds me of my experience playing Left4Dead today. I actually had people SCREAMING at me and other players about the purity of the game and being serious about it.
IT'S A FRIGGIN' VIDEO GAME! IT'S MEANT TO BE FUN! NOT SERIOUS BUSINESS!
Grown adults SCREAMING at each other over a video game!
And I'm seeing the same despicable actions taking place here.
You want to assign blame? You point those fingers at HasTak, and right in your own mirror. It's not just the people who buy them, you and the companies are to blame as well. And that, is fact.
*=(these are bootlegs, seeing as they're exact copies. New designs based off of original characters and wacky remolds are knock offs. It could be said that FansProject's stuff is knock off territory.)
That's much, much more affordable than some of the prices we've seen for the originals.
Now, with that out of the way, I think some of you are taking this way, way too seriously and you're bordering on abusive/trollish posting.
Some of you are being outright offensive with what you say, and all because of TOYS.
Some of you I agree with, some I disagree with, some of you I've agreed with in the past and have just lost my respect.
I understand the frustration of seeing people get ripped off with fakes, I understand being angry about paying full price and someone comes along and provides nearly (notice I said nearly) the same product for a fraction of what you paid.
I get all of that.
Here's the problem. Hasbro and TakaraTomy have done you the disservice. Not your fellow collector. While it doesn't exactly help matters when people buy bootlegs*, they are not causing the problem.
Hasbro and TakaraTomy are CREATING the problem by not giving us the combiners. They can reissue Convoy to the point I've lost count, in various packaging styles and schemes, but they can't reissue the combiners? No. That's a load of crap, and you and I both know it.
1.) The Bruticus Encore sold out fast in many places. It proved that there's a market for the combiners.
2.) Piranicon has been reissued twice (and now, possibly a third time), and he sold like hot cakes both times.
3.) Fans have been asking the companies to put these guys out for quite some time, and the answer is always "NO". (They give a lengthy, detailed response sometimes, but the gist is "NO".)
Well, there's a problem. You have the market for it, you have the demand, but no one's willing to make the product. Enter the bootleggers.
Here's something to think about...you blame the people buying the bootlegs for supporting this, but you too are helping to support this so called travesty. How? Because you're okay with taking "NO" for an answer and listening to Hasbro and TakaraTomy give us LAME ASS excuses as to why they aren't making these.
Not to mention, seeing what they gave us with an official Encore, was just pathetic. Mold warping, pieces not fitting right, etc. Even the bootleggers were able to produce sturdier and better looking bootlegs, recently.
So, you want your fellow collectors to overpay, you want to support HasTakTom giving us horribly made reissues, and you're willing to just take their excuses as the end all, be all of this issue?
No. Absolutely not. Not when a bootleg of equal or even just slightly lesser quality (I.E. a solid C-7.5-8.5 out of C-10) for much, much less than a used and abused 20 something is available.
Has everyone forgotten that this is supposed to be all in fun? Sure, the hobby can be expensive, but it's not supposed to be about the money. It's about having the toys. The toys were and are made for fun. They stand for fun. Even though it's big business, it doesn't have to be serious. Some of you folks taking this hard, just aren't having fun anymore. So really, what is the point?
I think it's great that you're purists (though I only agree with it to a certain extent), but I see now that you're not only taking it WAY too far, but you're starting to take it personally and making it personal and outright attacking your fellow fandomites.
That's ridiculous, it's crossing a line, and it's absolutely unnecessary.
If you want to be pure and keep your collection original, more power to you.
If your fellow collector wants to willingly buy a bootleg and save some money, more power to them.
If someone isn't bright enough to figure out that REMAKE means it's not ORIGINAL, then it's their fault they got rooked.
Anybody with common sense and simple reading ability can read the word remake and think "Oh, this is not an original from the 1980s. Okay. That explains why it's cheaper."
If you can't do that or you're not willing to, then it's your fault and you shouldn't blame anyone else for it.
This is absolutely ridiculous and downright offensive, and all because of toys. Some of you should be ashamed of what you said and how you said it. It was rude, cruel, and absolutely disgusting.
This reminds me of my experience playing Left4Dead today. I actually had people SCREAMING at me and other players about the purity of the game and being serious about it.
IT'S A FRIGGIN' VIDEO GAME! IT'S MEANT TO BE FUN! NOT SERIOUS BUSINESS!
Grown adults SCREAMING at each other over a video game!
And I'm seeing the same despicable actions taking place here.
You want to assign blame? You point those fingers at HasTak, and right in your own mirror. It's not just the people who buy them, you and the companies are to blame as well. And that, is fact.
*=(these are bootlegs, seeing as they're exact copies. New designs based off of original characters and wacky remolds are knock offs. It could be said that FansProject's stuff is knock off territory.)
