Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Its nothing new though. It's hard to believe that Star Trek TNG came out over 30 years ago. Prior to the Internet, fans could only argue Kirk vs Picard at conventions, in fanzines and chain penpal letters. I remember Night Court actually poking fun at that. Night Court anyone remember that? Anyone...anyone....

I sympathize however. Long gone are the days of me arguing for the original series over BW, or RiD, or Armada....most fans are going to be most closely connected to the series of their formative years (usually between 6-12), it just makes sense.

o.supreme wrote:I sympathize however. Long gone are the days of me arguing for the original series over BW, or RiD, or Armada....most fans are going to be most closely connected to the series of their formative years (usually between 6-12), it just makes sense.

Funny you should say that. Up until the mid-90's Sunbow was shown on a virtual loop of repeats. I was 12 in 1995, so I grew up with Sunbow. In particular The Movie (the pinnacle of the Sunbow series) and Seasons 3 & 4. My second all-time favourite Transformer - Soundwave - is my only fond memory of Season 1 & 2.

That said I have a deeper affinity to Beast Wars. Although there hasn't been a single TF series post-Beast Machines I have had any interest in. I had only two toys from beyond Beast Machines: The Ten-Former Gigatron from Car Robots and a monstrous looking Ultra Magnus from the Unicron Trilogy. More because I liked their designs than I followed the shows.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Funny you should say that. Up until the mid-90's Sunbow was shown on a virtual loop of repeats. I was 12 in 1995, so I grew up with Sunbow. In particular The Movie (the pinnacle of the Sunbow series) and Seasons 3 & 4. My second all-time favourite Transformer - Soundwave - is my only fond memory of Season 1 & 2.

That said I have a deeper affinity to Beast Wars. Although there hasn't been a single TF series post-Beast Machines I have had any interest in. I had only two toys from beyond Beast Machines: The Ten-Former Gigatron from Car Robots and a monstrous looking Ultra Magnus from the Unicron Trilogy. More because I liked their designs than I followed the shows.

You were, as they say "on the bubble" so your preference could have gone either way. But might I ask...how did you watch the original series? From my memory it was airing early mornings on Sci-Fi cannel in the early/mid 90's, and there was also the awful G2 "cybernet spacecube" in syndication. or was it perhaps from VHS rentals or recordings form an older sibling perhaps?

I think it was Sky One showed it early in the morning. I still remember they made a big deal of "The Rebirth" as the End of the series. I think they repeated it the whole way through one more time before.. the "G2" repeats. My Older brother wasn't as into Transformers as I was. Funnily enough one of our earliest Christmas's I actually remember he was bought Optimus Prime (with rubber wheels) and I had Galvatron. This was before the release of the Movie as no one had any idea who Galvatron was. My parents merely knew he was "a baddie" and I like those.

I knew it aired on the wide awake club block which was broadcast on ITV in the UK. It's also where a fresh faced Canadian comedian called Mike Myers appeared...along with Timmy o'mallet.

I watched G1 from video tapes (from car boot sales and taped off TV) problem was that I always remember G1 being better than it actually was when I rewatched it later on.

I don't consider myself to be in the fandom. Hell, it took me years before I ever posted here.
I do consider myself to be a fan of transformers. I've pretty much enjoyed ever series, except the Unicron Trilogy, yes even Transformers Animated.

I loved G1 as a kid. I did not cry in the movie although I remember others around me crying, and Hot Rod became my favorite Transformer because of the movie. As a kid I wondered why they made Rodimus Prime act the way they did, as an adult, and hinted in the special features, it seemed more like the writers were still made about the Death of Optimus Prime, so they made Rodimus a putz.

I had many of my old toys stolen at various points by friends, and finally stopped with transformers around the time of the power masters. Then years later I saw Generation 2 in the toy isle and went for them. The hero Optimus being one of my favorite toys in the line along with 1st Tank Megatron. I was always disappointed they didn't reissue a number of other figures though, like Hot Rod.

Years later I saw beast wars and was like WTF! I did however bought the Megatron Gator and Optimus Bat two pack. I really loved that bat. But then I sort of ignored the toys for a while until I saw the Cartoon. My eyes were wide and I was in love. I once again found myself seeking out the toys. especially the ones in the show but eventually as many as I could find, and I think I got almost all the B&M available ones.

I started to go to Botcon, and man I liked the dealer room, but couldn't stand the set-up of the con itself. It felt like the guys in charger were just using fans to finance their Transformer wet dreams. Don't even get me started on the "Dinner" they did. Bot con came closest to getting me out of transformers then anything else did.

I did get some of the Car Robots transformers (including the reissue Fort Max same con I think I got the original For Max nearly complete) through dealers though, before they had decided if it would be released outside of Japan.

I liked the toys from the Unicron Trilogy, but the shows were terrible. How many times can you have Megatron turn into Galvatron and then back again.... ugh..

Transformers Animated had some weird designs to me, but the stories, I really enjoyed and I bought most of if not all the toys available to the general public.

Then the Generation toys were coming out too, and like a few others have mentioned, I loved the updates to the designs. I wish they would have given Prime his trailer though, a trailer base, not this whole robot suit we always see now.

Some were cool, others not so much, but I really liked the Majority and picked up the ones I liked and missed out on a few I regret.

The Live action movie figuees, in my opinion, mostly sucked. I picked up both versions of Arcee though. I have the Hot Rod, his care mode being pretty sweet. I want to get Cogsman if he ever gets released and I might pick up Nitro since you can swap his head out for a headmaster.

The combiner wars and Titan's return figured, I mostly like, but really why do we need to turn every tank into Megatron and every Truck into Prime? I'm tired of the updates of all these same characters. I want to see more variety of the characters. Instead of getting headmasters of already existing figures, I would like to have seen some of the other headmasters made (headmaster jrs, both America and Japanese), and the target masters. Heck, even the power masters that I didnt care much for as a kid (and I mean like really power masters, not what they are currently doing with a few of them).

Power of the Primes is a odd one for me. I like a lot of the figures they are doing, but WHY IS PRACTICALLY EVERYONE A COMBINER! What was a cool feature on a few is now too commonplace. AS much as I wanted a Dinobot Combiner, It really should have been done as a Titan Class. The rest, lets not worry about it.

Still I'm a fan, but I don't consider myself to be part of the Fandom. I just like to visit it on occasion though.

Great article Va'al. You're not alone in your thoughts, and in no way are you a fake geek. Not everyone has an ultimate passion, and you don't have to. Enjoy it all, thats what it's there for.

God I miss this site. I really need to spend more time online here.

Seiberton til we die!

From my experience, I'm not a fan of creative fiction when it comes to a brand. Why you ask? Because ultimately the owners of that fiction own it and can sue the hell out of you. Or simply make any of your adapted fan fiction null and void. After the Star Wars Expanded Universe was branded non canon, that's it, you realize someone else has the power to change it. Now reading Heir to the Empire is useless for me. It's only useful because it would impact the movie verse. If it doesn't, then it's just another fan fiction. That's how I look at a franchise, I consume it and expect the service to be of high quality because they have resources I know I'll never have. No matter how good the fan fiction is, I can't make a blockbuster movie nor build a toy line. So when that said behemoth of a brand fails, I hold them accountable because that is the expected agreement we have. I pay them for a product/service and the business should deliver.

When the business then decides to go against a specific narrative and starts to become amateur like the fan fictions out there, that's why I decide to leave the franchise. Because, as I said earlier I do not own any right to publish anything in that medium. So I can't get involved and fix it. Too much effort.

I'm not saying creative fiction is not valuable or worth something, but it's just so saturated. It would have to take a large amount of motivation to puzzle together my own "head canon".

Transformers for me has been big a disappointment with this regard. We start in G1 and we agree that Optimus likes Pancakes for example. I like that idea, it attracts me to the show. I buy the figure/comic/movie to see Optimus Prime enjoying pancakes. I'm getting something that I paid for.
Then Hasbro pulls off a 180 and changes the entire continuity to something completely different. I sit there hoping that in this continuity I will get to see the moment Optimus finds a pancake. Of course they tell me he's Optimus, he sort of is, but looks completely different, save for the colour palette. So I invest in the product waiting to see my expectation come to reality. He never eats pancakes and now he likes steaks. I get disappointed, because that wasn't our agreement, they created the expectation of credibility and suddenly they bail on the agreement. (you'll say, but they never said it's the same Optimus, it's a different reality...correct you are little Timmy, but the problem is, they advertise it on the box. Join Optimus the Pancake Monster in a new adventure." Then he eats steak. So I decide ok fine I'll like the Optimus that eats steak, I accept it. And within the same continuity they change it up so he doesn't eat at all. >_<

Along comes some shifty guy in a trench coat and says "psssst hey you, yeah you, wanna see some pancake eating Transformers like you used to?I was just like you, then I decided to do something about it"

I roll my eyes, and say ok fine show me the stuff.

And it's freaking bootleg stuff that are knock offs. Not to the standard I had hoped.

So I find something I like in the mess of a creative off shoot. Neat, this specific artist captured the proper way to eat pancakes as a Transformer. I want more please....aaaaand we hit the issue with resources. The artist would drip feed pictures or words of pancakes. I'd have to say to myself, "pretend it's real pretend it's real."

It's exhausting. I paid money for this, I invested time, effort, emotions. Yes I know it sounds entitled, but you would sound the same if you buy a Mercedes Benz for $50,000 and find out they swapped the parts from a lower tier Kia. Anyone would be frustrated if they'd been hustled.

"But Bud, what's wrong with Kia's? Do you have a problem with Kia's? You hate Kia's? Why are you judging Kia's.What's wrong with Kia's"

It has nothing to do with Kia's!

I bought a Benz, I should get a Benz. Simple transaction. You're defending Kia's or shoehorning Kia's into this for no reason. Unless it is in your interest to push Kia into the Benz line. You somehow make a profit out of the inclusion of Kia, be it monetary or emotional or makes you feel happy with your current Kia. Or maybe you too were hustled...and trying to say..."shut up plz, at least we got a Benz, stop saying anything so we continue getting at least a benz."

Again, has nothing to do with Kia. I don't hate Kia. In fact I have friends who own Kia. I owned a Kia at some point....dammit why am I being side tracked.

No the issue here is I paid for a Mercedes Benz. I should get a Mercedes Benz. It's only fair. I ordered a pizza with no pineapples, yet they continue to give me a pizza with pineapple. "I love pineapples on my pizza, you should try it'....I did!.....I hate it. Can I please just get what I ordered....

So that's my weird explanation of why the franchise and the fandom don't meet my expectations. Hasbro alters the deal (kills off a character to sell more toys, so they're after their own interests, and they're after them militaristically) and the fandom yells at me for reacting to them altering the deal. The fandom wants to deny me that reaction, that frustration.

"If you don't like the altered deal, then don't accept it in the first place, or do what I do, pretend."

Correct, I shouldn't accept it in the first place, but I won't know that piece of info that the dealer is a no good hustler until I actually try and deal with them. And that's what I refer to as the brand image. Also I don't have that magic ability to pretend as you do. I can't simply imagine Optimus eating a pancake while I literally see him slaughter the pancake king!

There are brands that don't hustle and those that do. I'll complain about the ones that I perceive hustle and will support those that do not.

Transformers for the longest while have been playing the hustling game. Actually from their inception, making entire decisions solely based on toy sales and not the more fitting in universe path. More fitting doesn't have to my idea , just the general consensus. There is a formula to those things.

Sounds jaded...yes.
Salty....perhaps.
My opinion...you bet.

Besides making decide that I will be making pancakes on my next day off for the kids and I, I just want to say, I get it. A little odd on your comparisons, but frustration for what you have compared to expectation is understandable. But, good on you for knowing what you want, it helps you decide on how you enjoy what you do. I'm really enjoying following this thread and, even though I don't comment often to it, getting to know my fellows on here more.
This is what a good fandom is, different and whole.

budmaloney wrote:From my experience, I'm not a fan of creative fiction when it comes to a brand. Why you ask? Because ultimately the owners of that fiction own it and can sue the hell out of you. Or simply make any of your adapted fan fiction null and void. After the Star Wars Expanded Universe was branded non canon, that's it, you realize someone else has the power to change it. Now reading Heir to the Empire is useless for me. It's only useful because it would impact the movie verse. If it doesn't, then it's just another fan fiction. That's how I look at a franchise, I consume it and expect the service to be of high quality because they have resources I know I'll never have. No matter how good the fan fiction is, I can't make a blockbuster movie nor build a toy line. So when that said behemoth of a brand fails, I hold them accountable because that is the expected agreement we have. I pay them for a product/service and the business should deliver.

When the business then decides to go against a specific narrative and starts to become amateur like the fan fictions out there, that's why I decide to leave the franchise. Because, as I said earlier I do not own any right to publish anything in that medium. So I can't get involved and fix it. Too much effort.

I'm not saying creative fiction is not valuable or worth something, but it's just so saturated. It would have to take a large amount of motivation to puzzle together my own "head canon".

Transformers for me has been big a disappointment with this regard. We start in G1 and we agree that Optimus likes Pancakes for example. I like that idea, it attracts me to the show. I buy the figure/comic/movie to see Optimus Prime enjoying pancakes. I'm getting something that I paid for.
Then Hasbro pulls off a 180 and changes the entire continuity to something completely different. I sit there hoping that in this continuity I will get to see the moment Optimus finds a pancake. Of course they tell me he's Optimus, he sort of is, but looks completely different, save for the colour palette. So I invest in the product waiting to see my expectation come to reality. He never eats pancakes and now he likes steaks. I get disappointed, because that wasn't our agreement, they created the expectation of credibility and suddenly they bail on the agreement. (you'll say, but they never said it's the same Optimus, it's a different reality...correct you are little Timmy, but the problem is, they advertise it on the box. Join Optimus the Pancake Monster in a new adventure." Then he eats steak. So I decide ok fine I'll like the Optimus that eats steak, I accept it. And within the same continuity they change it up so he doesn't eat at all. >_<

Along comes some shifty guy in a trench coat and says "psssst hey you, yeah you, wanna see some pancake eating Transformers like you used to?I was just like you, then I decided to do something about it"

I roll my eyes, and say ok fine show me the stuff.

And it's freaking bootleg stuff that are knock offs. Not to the standard I had hoped.

So I find something I like in the mess of a creative off shoot. Neat, this specific artist captured the proper way to eat pancakes as a Transformer. I want more please....aaaaand we hit the issue with resources. The artist would drip feed pictures or words of pancakes. I'd have to say to myself, "pretend it's real pretend it's real."

It's exhausting. I paid money for this, I invested time, effort, emotions. Yes I know it sounds entitled, but you would sound the same if you buy a Mercedes Benz for $50,000 and find out they swapped the parts from a lower tier Kia. Anyone would be frustrated if they'd been hustled.

"But Bud, what's wrong with Kia's? Do you have a problem with Kia's? You hate Kia's? Why are you judging Kia's.What's wrong with Kia's"

It has nothing to do with Kia's!

I bought a Benz, I should get a Benz. Simple transaction. You're defending Kia's or shoehorning Kia's into this for no reason. Unless it is in your interest to push Kia into the Benz line. You somehow make a profit out of the inclusion of Kia, be it monetary or emotional or makes you feel happy with your current Kia. Or maybe you too were hustled...and trying to say..."shut up plz, at least we got a Benz, stop saying anything so we continue getting at least a benz."

Again, has nothing to do with Kia. I don't hate Kia. In fact I have friends who own Kia. I owned a Kia at some point....dammit why am I being side tracked.

No the issue here is I paid for a Mercedes Benz. I should get a Mercedes Benz. It's only fair. I ordered a pizza with no pineapples, yet they continue to give me a pizza with pineapple. "I love pineapples on my pizza, you should try it'....I did!.....I hate it. Can I please just get what I ordered....

So that's my weird explanation of why the franchise and the fandom don't meet my expectations. Hasbro alters the deal (kills off a character to sell more toys, so they're after their own interests, and they're after them militaristically) and the fandom yells at me for reacting to them altering the deal. The fandom wants to deny me that reaction, that frustration.

"If you don't like the altered deal, then don't accept it in the first place, or do what I do, pretend."

Correct, I shouldn't accept it in the first place, but I won't know that piece of info that the dealer is a no good hustler until I actually try and deal with them. And that's what I refer to as the brand image. Also I don't have that magic ability to pretend as you do. I can't simply imagine Optimus eating a pancake while I literally see him slaughter the pancake king!

There are brands that don't hustle and those that do. I'll complain about the ones that I perceive hustle and will support those that do not.

Transformers for the longest while have been playing the hustling game. Actually from their inception, making entire decisions solely based on toy sales and not the more fitting in universe path. More fitting doesn't have to my idea , just the general consensus. There is a formula to those things.

Sounds jaded...yes.
Salty....perhaps.
My opinion...you bet.

I can understand your point...sort of...the pancake thing just makes me hungry and glad it's pancake day next Tuesday for us brits

If I understand though you basically didn't like the notion that they created alternative timelines that reused characters (either for nostalgia or just to keep trademarks)?

That's a fair enough stand to take as it was how you viewed the beginning of G1. My only comment would be that I think hasbro has never lied about their intentions which as a business, is all about making money, after they only started producing brand new molds for the franchise a few years in once it was clear it was a bit and they had exhausted all the possible diaclone/micro change toys.

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum(s)...

I used to be heavily invested in the forums, fan meet-ups, and the podcast.

I posted constantly, contributed regularly, and worked to get our local gangs together just to talk shop.

Perhaps it's all the moving I've done, perhaps it's the needs of my profession finally catching up with me, perhaps and in some way likely; it's having a son...but I don't have the energy to do so any more.

I still collect voraciously. I still love the fiction. I still love talking Transformers with my friends and meeting up with people when possible. But I don't have the energy to take the lead any more. I don't have the time.

I really enjoy taking pictures of my toys and doing little bits of work like stickers or small mods to them. I do not enjoy talking or debating the toys on forums any more. I think perhaps I've been around long enough that I know what I like, what I don't, and how to weigh the opinions I hear in between. But I don't feel the need to get in the mix, advocate, or argue.

It's not worth the energy anymore.

That statement has turned my hobby interests inward. I'm far more introverted now than a few years ago.

Counterpunch wrote:A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum(s)...

I used to be heavily invested in the forums, fan meet-ups, and the podcast.

I posted constantly, contributed regularly, and worked to get our local gangs together just to talk shop.

Perhaps it's all the moving I've done, perhaps it's the needs of my profession finally catching up with me, perhaps and in some way likely; it's having a son...but I don't have the energy to do so any more.

I still collect voraciously. I still love the fiction. I still love talking Transformers with my friends and meeting up with people when possible. But I don't have the energy to take the lead any more. I don't have the time.

I really enjoy taking pictures of my toys and doing little bits of work like stickers or small mods to them. I do not enjoy talking or debating the toys on forums any more. I think perhaps I've been around long enough that I know what I like, what I don't, and how to weigh the opinions I hear in between. But I don't feel the need to get in the mix, advocate, or argue.

It's not worth the energy anymore.

That statement has turned my hobby interests inward. I'm far more introverted now than a few years ago.

But, isn't that the shake of things? As a teen you want to fit in/belong somewhere, and it stays that way for a while. It changes a little bit as you mature and you just want to share with others of similar bent. Marriage and children can change that, you have other people who mean so much to you that you want to share the likes they have as well, even if they aren't necessarily yours. It's life, it's cool, and the best part of that maturity, you don't have to take the lead, just provide the wisdom of age.

I think its also reddit and facebook compete for people's attention. I never liked facebook (don't get me started!) and reddit doesn't really have the same sense of community. Its like talking with a bunch of strangers. On a forum you can at least get to know people who are memorable.

I think (after having been involved in several hobbies/fandoms over the years)the biggest challenge a person faces in any endeavor of this type is boredom. Or at least burn out. But I think it will force you to do as you have and step back to re-evaluate things. Where is your place? How do you fit in? Should you fit in? And when you start asking those types of self reflective questions, you find yourself becoming distant. And I believe that at that point you're not really trying to answer those questions to find out the answers so much as you are trying to validate whether you should continue to immerse yourself in whatever you are doing.

So, for transformers, it's a pretty finite universe as much as we would love to think/wish it's not. This can lead to the "same old", "same old" that a lot of you seem to be bothered by. The same good versus evil storyline/plot, autobots vs decepticons, repaints and remolds, recreations of the same "popular" characters(I use that term very loosely)a million times with a million new tweaks. Yes, it can get old.

Then there are the the gripes about old fans versus new fans who are only seemingly fans because the movies came out. People who get upset or at least disappointed that some of the new fans have no real "background" or love for or in the hobby/fandom(this is a huge, IMO, somewhat silent angst among comic fans and fans of the newer comic related movies as well as some of the Star Wars crowd due to those newer movies). Same can be said about the toys, those that prefer G1 versus those who would just as much rather have a TR version of a character because they never had G1 toys themselves growing up(and to be truthful, if you didn't grow up with them, and you see the new figures now, it's sort of hard to fault someone for dismissing the older figures for being blocky, mostly non-poseable, and expensive in comparison).

Then you have the separation of movie fans, toy fans, comic fans, and people who generally just casually cling to the "fandom"/universe itself. And of course there are combinations who do some or all of these things. I am starting to meet some people who seem to be heavily leaning towards their own side of the fandom in regards to this and it's almost as if they totally refuse to take part in other aspects. Comic readers who are not in any way fond of the toys, toy collectors who hate the comics or at least the way the story line seems either perpetually regurgitated or not what they feel truly represents the characters or what they imagine the stories or universe should be. Movie or even cartoon fans who think collecting toys or reading the comics is either boring/stupid/a waste of money, or any combination of the three. And people who indicate they like the transformers concept and universe but when asked how they choose to participate, have no real answer, and do not seem readily willing to take that step. Almost as if the mere fact the universe of transformers exists is enough for them(I didn't say I understand it, I'm just saying it's out there).

That brings me back to my original point. The universe of transformers is finite. An adult with a job and disposable income(and depending on how you choose to participate, disposable income may not be a factor) can readily participate in any number of ways. But humans are creatures of habit and tend to find their niche and stick to it.

You could be on message boards all day but how long will it be before every conceivable topic has been discussed to the point of exhaustion? You can collect the toys but eventually you'll run out of room, have them all, or maybe just have all the ones you wish to have. You can go back from the very first comic, and read everything through present, owning them all either digitally, in single issue form or in tpb/collected form. You can watch every movie or cartoon from original G1 to the latest movie/animated.

However you wish to participate, this fandom has a reachable beginning and you can jump on wherever you choose, whatever you decide will be your "beginning", and get to a "current" point where you feel you are on par with the peers of your niche. But at that point, once you've reached the "current", whatever that personally means to you, you are simply waiting for something new. Whether it's new toys, the next comic, the next movie, the next animated series, the next topic of discussion. That can be fun, but it can also become boring. With any hobby/fandom. From any aspect of your participation. And sustaining that over a long period an be difficult. Especially when you have a universe like transformers.

I think there are other things that can be done with the universe. New characters, new story lines. Things that can pump life into it. But we are getting things like a bumble bee movie. And we just finished a line of toys where we had old G1 characters get yet another figure/remake. Hasbro will continue in this trend. I would not look for them to alter their course. If you feel distant, or burned out, I don't know if looking for alternative avenues is going to help. Maybe it will. But it's probable that whatever means you originally chose to participate, you did so because it's either what you enjoy or the other aspects of the fandom did not agree with you. And if you've been at it for a while, that statement may be even more true.

You could try immersing yourself in other hobbies or fandoms and take a break from the TF universe. Allow it, and yourself, to refresh. I think a lot of people do this. But many people quit/give up on hobbies because it's almost as if they're expecting the hobby/fandom to change in some way that pulls them closer. And it doesn't always do that.

I'd like to add(as my previous post was quite lengthy and I truly feel bad for those of you reading it on your phones, so I definitely didn't want add to it further) feeling like you "belong" to any part of a fandom should be a carefully tread line. In short, you should only participate in what you yourself enjoy. You should never feel like you need to do anything to "fit in". I myself am going back and reading all of the IDW comics because I do enjoy them. A lot! I love the character dynamics. I also happen to like the energon and armada toylines although most people I have spoken with absolutely loathe them. I prefer the cartoons over the movies and I like the first transformers movie(2007) more than any of the others. When buying a G1(or any) toy on ebay or at a shop, I will pore over it for hours learning everything I can regarding it's transformation and subsequent engineering, how to spot fakes and the various differences to look for, etc.

I have around 200 transformers and with the exception of a few G1, beast wars, and energon/armada toys I will be adding, I am almost done with buying older figures and will be selective with the newer figures I do buy. I have seen you tube videos where some collectors have well over 2000 figures(several members here have shared their collections which equal or even surpass this amount) but while I appreciate the vigor and tenacity of these collectors, that's not me, nor is it for me. And that's ok.

One part of any hobby or fandom that I truly do not agree with is the idea that something, anything really, makes one person less or more of a fan than another. The logic is flawed and it does not help in growing that hobby or fandom. If you really enjoy that universe, it would seem unusual that one person's enjoyment would in some way bother you or hinder/detract from your enjoyment. And it would also seem that you would want to help facilitate interest/growth in that universe not only so you have others to share it with but also so that you can help keep it alive.

Va'al wrote:If you've been active online in talks surrounding general science fiction material in the past year (from comic book movies to Star Wars to Transformers, too, though not as much) you might have encountered people discussing the difference between curative and creative fandom, denoting two different ways to enjoy and - dare I say it? - consume media which is part of a franchise. Curative fandom is the part more easily associated with 'wiki' style attention, curating an interest for information, references, knowledge seen as a collection of facts and trivia, assimilating the media offered by creators (official or not) of the franchise. Creative fandom is, on the other hand, the more hands-on interaction with a franchise: expressing your interest not necessarily through knowledge but generating new content, often unofficial, such as custom work, fan art, fan fiction, fan events, videos, shorts, even sh**posting, why not. Neither is the better way, of course, and neither is wrong, though both receive scorn from the other side despite a lot of fans finding themselves somewhere in between the two.

Recently, I read an interesting opinion piece about the ending to the series "Startrek: - Discovery". Here is a (spoiler-free) section which I thought was relevant to Va'al's quote, above:

-

"...I think at this point that Star Trek fandom has divided into two groups. Really, this could apply to many highly elaborated fandoms, but we're talking about Trek here. To borrow from terms usually used in legal analysis, these two groups are "formalist" fans and "realist" fans.

Formalists view all of Star Trek as arising out of one, originary text: Star Trek: The Original Series. A few of the movies might be allowed to serve as originary texts too, depending on how orthodox the fan is. All other Star Trek properties, from books and movies to TV series and games, are judged based on whether they adhere to the rules laid out in ST: TOS. Formalists want to see characters, ideas, and places from the originary text. They often appeal to an idea of "real Star Trek" in their analyses, by which they mean "any Trek narrative which stays true to the originary text of ST:TOS."

Obviously the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies are formalist: they return to the originary text. That's why the debates over them were so intense, and full of people yelling about what "real" Star Trek is. You can also see a lot of formalist flourishes in Discovery, especially in the finale...

...Realist fans, on the other hand, like to reinvent and reinterpret the originary text. They want to apply the Trek rules to novel situations, with new kinds of characters and situations we've never seen before. Certainly a lot of TNG represents realist fandom, as do Deep Space Nine and Voyager. All three series took the show into the future, and reinvented a lot of the fundamental rules for the franchise. Replicators made the Federation a post-scarcity culture, and the Prime Directive became much more robust. We met radically different civilizations, our point-of-view characters became much more diverse. There were androids and shape-shifters, but also a black captain, a female captain, and a number of mixed-race or mixed-species characters..."

(WARNING - SPOILERS -
Source: - https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/ ... th-a-bang/ )

lakebot wrote:
One part of any hobby or fandom that I truly do not agree with is the idea that something, anything really, makes one person less or more of a fan than another. The logic is flawed and it does not help in growing that hobby or fandom. If you really enjoy that universe, it would seem unusual that one person's enjoyment would in some way bother you or hinder/detract from your enjoyment. And it would also seem that you would want to help facilitate interest/growth in that universe not only so you have others to share it with but also so that you can help keep it alive.

This all damn day. I sometimes see some dumb arguments over things (Generation preference and headcanons mostly) and it makes no sense to me. It's like one person saying to another 'you can't enjoy this thing differently than I do' when they don't own that thing. Transformers belongs to all fans not just one person.

I find it annoying too because everyone's introduction to the fandom is different. It's okay to have preferences and give constructive criticism at times. Maybe some people like TFP over RiD or prefer G1 to Bayverse. We are all allowed to have those opinions but should not treat others poorly based on them. It doesn't serve anyone to be like that. Especially when a lot of people nowadays get drawn in after watching the Bay flicks. Always, always ALWAYS be welcoming to new fans. Even if you can't stand Bayverse you can show them some of the TV shows and comics to help 'em branch out.

I'll admit was reading people's headcanons and I came across one that I disagreed with.(This person is not on Seibertron but I won't mention any names because I don't wanna start stuff.) I admit it ticked me off because it was about a favorite character acting in a way that they would not and it was bordering on turning them into someone very cruel. Now I'd never get in someone's face about anything like this but it dawned on me that - why should I waste my time reading this person's ideas if I find them to be inaccurate? Sure this character is special to me but I don't own them. Everyone has favorite characters that they are attached to but that does not mean that the character is for them exclusively. The characters are for all to enjoy. I can have my own separate ideas and headcanons and they can have theirs. If we disagree to a point we can't stand one another then we don't have to talk, it's that simple.

WreckerJack wrote:

lakebot wrote:
One part of any hobby or fandom that I truly do not agree with is the idea that something, anything really, makes one person less or more of a fan than another. The logic is flawed and it does not help in growing that hobby or fandom. If you really enjoy that universe, it would seem unusual that one person's enjoyment would in some way bother you or hinder/detract from your enjoyment. And it would also seem that you would want to help facilitate interest/growth in that universe not only so you have others to share it with but also so that you can help keep it alive.

This all damn day. I sometimes see some dumb arguments over things (Generation preference and headcanons mostly) and it makes no sense to me. It's like one person saying to another 'you can't enjoy this thing differently than I do' when they don't own that thing. Transformers belongs to all fans not just one person.

I find it annoying too because everyone's introduction to the fandom is different. It's okay to have preferences and give constructive criticism at times. Maybe some people like TFP over RiD or prefer G1 to Bayverse. We are all allowed to have those opinions but should not treat others poorly based on them. It doesn't serve anyone to be like that. Especially when a lot of people nowadays get drawn in after watching the Bay flicks. Always, always ALWAYS be welcoming to new fans. Even if you can't stand Bayverse you can show them some of the TV shows and comics to help 'em branch out.

I'll admit was reading people's headcanons and I came across one that I disagreed with.(This person is not on Seibertron but I won't mention any names because I don't wanna start stuff.) I admit it ticked me off because it was about a favorite character acting in a way that they would not and it was bordering on turning them into someone very cruel. Now I'd never get in someone's face about anything like this but it dawned on me that - why should I waste my time reading this person's ideas if I find them to be inaccurate? Sure this character is special to me but I don't own them. Everyone has favorite characters that they are attached to but that does not mean that the character is for them exclusively. The characters are for all to enjoy. I can have my own separate ideas and headcanons and they can have theirs. If we disagree to a point we can't stand one another then we don't have to talk, it's that simple.

Ahem to all of this, especially what lakebot said about people in fandoms looking down on each other (reminds me of an debate I had on this forum a long time ago)

In a sense this is why I don't understand why people get torn up about how the characters are portrayed in the comics or movieverse. These characters are who we want them to be

I have a very specific niche where it comes to my place in the transformers fandom. Being a Female and a Starscream fan/collector.

A lot of the female fans have a strange love male/male character pairings - I can't handle that (unless its cannon and logically explained) so I built myself my own space where I can do my own thing, my own way - which is my website. Locally I am reasonably known. I visit TFcon each year.

I admit there are series I don't care much for, but I tend to watch everything with an open mind and try to see it for what it is, just another thing keeping my beloved fandom alive.

People should try harder to find their place in more important parts of their lives instead of toys and comics.

If you need to escape, take a weeks vacation to the Bahamas. Then come back and address the issues you're running from.

Transformers are meant to be entertainment.

It's too bad all the narcissists made it about themselves.

misfire19d wrote:It's too bad all the narcissists made it about themselves.

It's not narcissistic mate, we all have our own individual reasons for being a part of this, or any fandom. Some use it for escapism from problems in real life, where running to the Bahamas for a couple of weeks won't solve the problems. It's a coping mechanism, you don't need to agree with it, but you don't need to judge others for it.

Care to tell us your story of why you're here?

Burn wrote:

misfire19d wrote:It's too bad all the narcissists made it about themselves.

It's not narcissistic mate, we all have our own individual reasons for being a part of this, or any fandom. Some use it for escapism from problems in real life, where running to the Bahamas for a couple of weeks won't solve the problems. It's a coping mechanism, you don't need to agree with it, but you don't need to judge others for it.

Care to tell us your story of why you're here?

I could be wrong but I think he's more on about certain people who make transformers fiction, more so on the IDW side, going from past posts of his. There's a certain amount of ambiguity with the post that I'm fairly certain is intentional.

Also not everyone wants to go to the Bahamas I can think of 10 other places I'd rather visit.

Misfire19d, not sure if your adressing people in general on this thread or just venting a little, but having something to escape into actually isn't a bad thing. (As long as it isn't something just out right bad for your health)
This escapism is actually a natural thing we humans do. Daydreaming, reading, video games, sitting around fires and telling stories, and the list could just keep on going. The fact that we can share ourselves in this community is another form of escape. Taking the time to read, formulate thought, and then reply is a distraction from everyday life for a moment. And, on top of all of that, and to myself, the coolest part of all this escapism. We get to form bonds with people who share, in some part, the same fiction we do. I am, through this site, getting to know people, albeit not as intimately as you do in real life, by their posts, their encouragement to others, their photos and humor. This site, these people, have for me been a boon in nights were I am feeling alone at night since my wife's passing. This site is like Cheers, where maybe not everyone knows your name, but seemingly for the most part, everyone is a friend, even when arguing. And I would never have had that without all of us sharing this escape.

Acesmcgee wrote:Misfire19d, not sure if your adressing people in general on this thread or just venting a little, but having something to escape into actually isn't a bad thing. (As long as it isn't something just out right bad for your health)
This escapism is actually a natural thing we humans do. Daydreaming, reading, video games, sitting around fires and telling stories, and the list could just keep on going. The fact that we can share ourselves in this community is another form of escape. Taking the time to read, formulate thought, and then reply is a distraction from everyday life for a moment. And, on top of all of that, and to myself, the coolest part of all this escapism. We get to form bonds with people who share, in some part, the same fiction we do. I am, through this site, getting to know people, albeit not as intimately as you do in real life, by their posts, their encouragement to others, their photos and humor. This site, these people, have for me been a boon in nights were I am feeling alone at night since my wife's passing. This site is like Cheers, where maybe not everyone knows your name, but seemingly for the most part, everyone is a friend, even when arguing. And I would never have had that without all of us sharing this escape.

Thank you for that, and it may be too late or unwanted, but my condolences for your loss. I do hope this site continues to help you. My apologies if this cones across as condescending, it really isn't my intention.

Not at all Zero, and thanks. I really know that there can be venom in any fandom, but I find that on this site, as a general rule of thumb, people seem to be good to one another. I used to patrol the site for a while, reading news posts and pursuing the galleries. Then I began to listen to the podcast and that led me to the forums, and to me at least, the friendly natures of casters definitely comes across with all the other fans here.
As an example, Burn here was the first to greet me in a post, and then people in general were cool to me. Inviting me to.check out posts that I expressed some interest to, introducing me to toys I missed out on over the years. Teaching me about facets of this brand I knew nothing about.
Because of all that, I generally take what anyone is saying here as being without I'll intent. So you are cool. Thanks again.