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I think self-reflection like this is good once in a while. It's not really a reboot, more like taking stock of where you stand in relation with the franchise and its many facets. You linked the thread I wrote about my own self-reflection 3 years ago, and the timing couldn't be better, as I have been thinking about bumping it with another update. But I guess maybe I will just include it with this response.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this post is at least in part a result of your struggles with the negativity surrounding IDW's recent releases? I don't have a lot to contribute to this unfortunately. Everyone relates to the fandom in his/her own way and we each place a stronger importance on different aspects of it.

I have been finding more satisfaction in the toys recently, just as my constant disappointment in the comics has pushed me to the verge of giving up on it. Unlike some of you who responded here, I like the CW, TR and PotP lines, especially because they have a lot of G1 call backs, and even though some of the figures have problems, the lines overall are above average to me. Since CW came out, I have become more enthusiastic about collecting, but I don't have a need to buy every piece of a line.

As for being an interactive member of the fandom, my involvement on this board is as far as that goes. I don't know anyone else in my real life who I could hang out with and talk about Transformers. I'm fine with that, as it has been said, this is just a hobby, it doesn't control my life. Honestly, I mean no offense or antagonism by saying this, but I don't care much about others in the fandom, especially those who try to force their viewpoints on others, regardless of what it is. We all like different aspects of the fandom, doesn't make some of us better than others.

I'm not sure if you feel that you should belong to a certain group among the fans that is defined by what they like or don't like. You should do whatever makes you happy and comfortable. But be prepared to deal with the part of the fandom that doesn't share your thoughts and points of view on things, no matter how relentless they are. Remember, everyone likes and dislikes certain parts of the franchise. The key is to find common ground.

A couple more selected responses, and a clarification: I am not looking to 'fit in' in any of the 'areas' I suggested in the piece. I was using talking point and existing categories to navigate my own thoughts. I obviously pick and choose, but as others have pointed out, sometimes having a community of any kind to rely on for a fallback can be.. nice? That was the main point, really.

dragons wrote:After reading whole arrivals and reading title of article it doesn’t match up with what I was reading title of article says fandom what I got from reading it being transformer fan on different sites you grew out of being fan and changed over time you wanted be writer for Idw comics but never had chance and your plans had changed maybe you could be more clear what you are talking about comments are saying famdon to transformers fan series article was all over place and it didn’t make sense.,

I'm sorry you felt misled by the title, but I'm not sure why 'fandom' is not what I'm talking about in the piece.

Also, I've never wanted to be a comics writer (editorial I wouldn't mind, and I almost applied last time IDW had an opening). Just clarifying that too!

Acesmcgee wrote:So if I have to say that I disagree with anything about your piece, it's the title. You haven't lost your anchor, but by being you, you have actually cast a net. I imagine that a lot of the people on this site, overall, feel closer to you due to your participation in the podcasts, the little insights we can get by your opinions (hell you're a human, you're allowed a opinion, regardless of your title), and now this article of writing.

(The rest of your response gave me some serious fuzzies, so thank you. )

I like that idea of the net, and it's something I'll think more about for further pieces. It goes well with what some other people have commented too, like primalxconvoy and this:

meekus3 wrote:So if I’m reading ya correctly, Va’al, you’re saying that the community, and the work, and people are what keeps you into it all, right? Not the collecting or the creating but the social interacting.

Perhaps so, yes! But what about finding hurdles in the interaction, when your interests don't entirely ..blend? mix? work as well with others? Not sure on the right word here. Take this example: I can listen to someone talk about their appreciation of a certain character, or setting, or series, but I wouldn't really have the back-up to return the same, or to participate in a conversation - it'd become a monologue of which I am the audience, in some ways.

Or, another example: talking about specific issues of comics series, or writers - I have a certain perspective from my studies and work on the comics medium in general, but not the curative stance to compare within this same framework that others might operate their own criticism in, and sometimes we can get stuck into that side rather than another. Which is fine! But it also means that if I get tired of it.. am I removing myself from that interaction? Am I behaving like a jerk? I dunno. Again, just talking points.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this post is at least in part a result of your struggles with the negativity surrounding IDW's recent releases? I don't have a lot to contribute to this unfortunately. Everyone relates to the fandom in his/her own way and we each place a stronger importance on different aspects of it.

I will correct you, as the piece has been brewing for maybe three years now, I just finally had a framework to write it in! As for the other parts of your post, see my opening here.

Burn wrote:

ScottyP wrote:I love G1, but after so many years I'm also ready to truly and actually move on from it.

I would be okay if we move onto something else. Something new and fresh and not over-simplified.

I'd quote from AllNewSuperRobot and Sureshot18 as well, but I'm on my phone so I picked the shortest reply Jumpy backspace key, you know?

I really like the approach taken (not necessarily the execution 100% of the time) by Cybertron and more recently, IDW. I'm aware IDW is a "G1" series, but is it really? It uses the concept and characters as a base, but at this point it's very new. The list of new characters is so lengthy at this point they've basically created the mythical "G3" with bots like Windblade, Drift, the DJD, Rung, and many others as the banner entries.

I think about RiD quite a bit in this context as well, and how Hasbro may have misread the market on this. It seems the intention was likely to attempt to capitalize on kids that were into Rescue Bots as toddlers, but they may have waited too long. Regardless, the super fresh cast of Decepticons (Starscream and Soundwave aside) is the best thing about it. A little bit more refinement to be more appealing to adults, with a little more depth and continuity (not necessarily "darker"!) and I feel like this could have been a huge winner.

Before I get intobthe discussion's discussion,

Va'al, I honestly feel like your place is right where you are. The old cliches about labeling everything apply, because you do have pieces lwft over, but I would argue there is at least 1 more taxonomy of a fandom, any fandom, or at a minimum a sublevel of the "curative" and that is the participative fandom. By that, I mean the people who are here for the social bonding, where in the topic of the fandom, Transformers, Star Wars, whatever is simply the catalyst for being here. These are the folks who find ways to be a part of the operations, who go to the Con, not out of any particular love for any one aspect but for the people they have met. Online boards certainly help open that side up to folks who otherwise couldnt have been in attendance.

Two examples, from my other, main hobby. I an an avid train nut, both model and real world, and want to make a career of it someday. I am a member of a model railroad club here in Indiana, and some of my favorite memories aare not the buying of things, or of going tobthings, but the things I have done with the people I have met. I loved the nights when we were sitting at the clubhouse, trains ran for maybe 20 minutes, but we sat and talked, bs'd really, for 2 hours. Then someone says "Its 9:00, I need to go home." and we talk some more, and soneone says "Its 10'o clock, I was leaving an hour ago. And then its 11, and then an hour later it magically has become 2:30 in the morning. The trains were just why we all walked through the door.

Even in the full sized, as kuch as I love a new train ride, I derive as much or more pleasure from being a part of thw ride for someone else. I had the pleasure of volunteering for 7 years on a local museum's Christmas trains, Trains to the State Fair, Pumpkin Patch train rides, and more. I love the trains, butvthe moments I think back on are rhe smiles Ivput on people's faces as a complete stranger.

I would suspect that you are in a similar position here, Va'al. And I woyld also suggest that you are still an important, if unsung, part of the curative. After all, is a review not a dissemination and presentation of the media?

I think the staff member who said it had it right. As long as you are having fun, stay right where you are. Thats the important part. These are toys, and toys without fun are a contradiction.

Myself, like most of you, I dont have a big local Transformer s Fan presence outside of two classmates. But I come here. I look forward to Va'al's reviews and the Podcast productions and whatever else ends up in front of me. I dont follow the forums like Ibshould, but thats mostly a time thing.

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SureShot18 wrote:

ScottyP wrote:I feel this way quite a bit lately. The Brand has this newfound yet somehow really haphazard clinginess to G1 and there are several echo chamber groups of fans that help give Hasbro the perception that this is the right thing to do. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I'm sure that ultimately, money talks. I love G1, but after so many years I'm also ready to truly and actually move on from it.

I couldn’t agree more. It was something I began to realize in Titans Return but it is really becoming noticeable now with Power of the Primes. I just don’t feel like the main Generations line is for me anymore. I’m just not a fan of how G1 almost every figure has become since John Warden took over with his team. I’d much rather go back to the style of Thrilling 30.

I do have to agree with this. I have said it before, during the Armada/Energon/Cybertron era there was outcry necause it want enough like G1. But here we are now with figures that are 98% carbon copies, and people are bored with them because they aren't new. I mean, I like them because I want around for G1 Dinobots, but I am very much ready for a Classics style take on figures that do new things with more current altmodes, or dare I say it? All new Characters in the Generations style. Things lie Lugnut, that RtS taje on his Animated figure is a brilliant example. I think.

Flashwave wrote:Va'al, I honestly feel like your place is right where you are. The old cliches about labeling everything apply, because you do have pieces lwft over, but I would argue there is at least 1 more taxonomy of a fandom, any fandom, or at a minimum a sublevel of the "curative" and that is the participative fandom. By that, I mean the people who are here for the social bonding, where in the topic of the fandom, Transformers, Star Wars, whatever is simply the catalyst for being here. These are the folks who find ways to be a part of the operations, who go to the Con, not out of any particular love for any one aspect but for the people they have met. Online boards certainly help open that side up to folks who otherwise couldnt have been in attendance.

I like it!

And thank you, I do have ideas for one or two pieces on where fandom gathers and the importance/influence of fansites over fandom, so I feel this will end up being woven into there too.

^ For the online presence, Transformers is an insane anomaly to me. A welcome one, to be sure, but some of the oldest (based on site age, not its users) and most active online communities are right here in the Transformers universe. The linkup of that with actual meeting-of-humans irl is only second to my experiences with the DDR community some 15 years ago, though that has dwindled to almost nothing these days. Before I go too far into making comparisons of ITG to the third party scene (which, holy crap, what a comparison there is!), I'll leave this post by just reiterating how lucky we are to have places like Seibertron to gather.

Nice reflections. It's good to see that while we are vastly different, we can all come together and recognize we all enjoy Transfomrers, for some reason it resonates with all of us, even if it is for a wide diversity of reasons.

I am 42, and like most boys in my peer group, I began to become interested in Transformers not quite at the beginning, but within its first year (I was still very much into MOTU when Transformers first came out, and took a while to make the change over). But the "playground talk" was always centered around the latest cartoon episode. There was little to zero talk about the comics, although I did begin picking them up with regularity after issue 25, there was ju7st never much discussion about them. In fact I used to write angry letters to marvel because the comics strayed so far from the animated series, and I wondered why they would often portray characters "completely wrong" heh... But I basically put my Transformers away in 1988, when I entered 7th grade. I would still secretly collect the comics, and watch re-runs odf the animated series, but my toy purchases were done for a while.

As a young adult I started picking up original series Transformers along with G2 and Beast wars in the mid late 90's, before the prices got too ridiculous. There really was no online fandom yet besides alt.online.transformers, but my foirst online experience would not be until 1998, so I basically came in just at the tail end of the "alt.toys" days. I spent many years on Ben Yee'ss message forum, where I discovered to me shock, horror at the time, that not everybody loved the animated series , many especially fans in the UK loved the comics, and some guy named simon furman . I tried to get into the UK comics, but to me the art is so ugly, I just cant (though I am currently collecting IDW's bound volumes for completion sake). But I have to say I spent way to many hours arguing animated series vs. comic. Now I understand , its easier just to acknowledge that we all have our favorites, but also that many things exist beyond what we personally prefer. Also, to this day I cling to many head canon beliefs that are probably either inaccurate, or are for the most part just unpopular among most of the fandom. I will always prefer things that champion the original animated series and or anything from the Japanese series as well.

Speaking of which, when I discovered series such as Headmasters, Masterforce & Victory fairly early on (I had actually seen a couple episodes thanks to a Japanese exchange student in our school in 6th grade), and reading articles in fanzine sin the early 90's, I had been obsessed with finding and watching these. To me they were like the holy grail. The "True Continuation" of Sunbows series that we never got, but should have. At my first Botcon in 1998, I was able to procure some rather poorly copied VHS episodes (and they were the terrible English dubs to boot), but to me they were like unlocked pages of a sacred text that I had never seen before. Why wasn't everyone clamoring for this? (I thought)...well I came toe realize later, that again not everyone likes the same things about transformers, for some its not all about the animated series, and that's fine.

As for my place in the fandom, I used to think I had one, but getting married & having kids (which I do not regret), took me out for a long time. I sold my entire toy collection in 2006, and it wasn't until late in the Combiner Wars series that I came back, which is when I found my way to this forum. Currently the toys (which for a time were my least favorite aspect), are my most favorite. Animation has been a disappointment overall since Prime ended, and the IDW comics are just *meh* (although I know many fans enjoy them and I keep up with them despite my marginal interest).

I've been to 5 Botcons, and while I really don't have much contact with the fans that I did in the early days, I think the best aspect about being a fan now is enjoying the hobby with my son. He will be turning 12 in a couple months, but we both enjoy the current Generations toylines, and he definitely has his own different opinions about the animated series. He isn't much of a reader (I hope that will change), so he's never really read any comics beyond asking me questions when he sees me read them. He's seen all the animated series however, and oddly enough, although he wasn't even born when it came out, I believe his favorite to this date is Armada (poor kid LOL...) . So even my son and I have differing tastes, but we can enjoy the various aspects of Transformers together. I guess the most interesting thing about the journey has been discovering new things about the transformers I never knew about before, and coming to the realization that the opinions I hold dear are not only NOT in the majority, but are practically isolated to myself. This used to distress me quite a bit, but I've come to accept it and move on. Also I've come to realize that Transformers offer more disappointments than I initially realized. decades may go by before a particular animated series, or comic event, or toyline will really resonate with me, but I realize when these do come, I'm going to celebrate the heck out of them, because they are not going to last forever.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:An interesting thread. Honestly over the years I've remained an outside observer of Fandoms and "communities" of things I enjoy. Especially online, some people can be a bit too intense, which makes you appreciate the safe anonymity the internet at times provides. I have considered conventions over the years, but ultimately in my eyes I just stick to solo collecting, while expressing the occasional view here and there.

ScottyP wrote:I feel this way quite a bit lately. The Brand has this newfound yet somehow really haphazard clinginess to G1 and there are several echo chamber groups of fans that help give Hasbro the perception that this is the right thing to do. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I'm sure that ultimately, money talks. I love G1, but after so many years I'm also ready to truly and actually move on from it.

I've thought this for the longest time. While I was into Transformers when the Sunbow series first started, I became a true fan through The Movie. Aside from being a practical demonstration that if the previously "incompetent" Decepticons actually mounted an all-out offensive, an army of jets, tanks, triple changers etc would easily wipe the floor with essentially a bunch of Car Bots. The main thing I really loved about it, was how Hasbro cleaned house and moved the plot forward in a massive way.
The backlash to their bold decision was the first time the problem raised in the above quote raised it's head. Some fans unable to accept change. The ever constant revivals of Optimus Prime ever since that movie highlight this problem more than any other. Fast forward to the end of G1 Sunbow - The Rebirth. Surrounded by the New futuristic designs of the Autobots and Decepticons, Prime couldn't look anymore out of place. More so a relic than Kup.

I can alreadyy tell this is going to be one of those topics thats darned impossible to keepvup with without a keyboard and a dual screen monitor. But I saw your comment abd I had to replybecause this is a question I have been struggling with. I agree ith your point that the stories struggle with reinvenying themselves only to retreat back to familiar ground. But more to your example, i have an idea in my head (I have a lot of those) for a fan fiction to throw the Protectobots, give or take a few cameos, into a storyline derivitive of Resxue Bots and the old Car Robots.up against cons like the UW Baldigus and the headmaster version of Scourge, Botcon Sky Byte, and a few others. The question I keep getting back to is "How do I justify a fire truck as the one left behind to look after humanity"? And the answer is,

He's not a fire truck. He just looks like one.

And I think, bad stprytelling aside, thats the point of the Autobots. They have guns.. They may not be as flashy as the decepticons, but the Autobots certainly were not unarmed. Heck, Tracks was runnung around with Missile Launchers in his Corvette.

The difference being that the Decepticons have always had a background as hardened warriors and/or gladiators. Seasoned combatants who revel in conflict. Barring the Wreckers and the Dinobots, the majority of the Autobots were medics, scientists, civilians within Cybertronian culture.
They only "won" within G1 due to the prevailing morality trope that is required for children's programs.
Marvel's original G1 comic series for example, made the further point that without Optimus Prime, the Autobots were completely useless. Whereas the Cons had several leaders during that series run and still held their own as individuals and/or a group.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The difference being that the Decepticons have always had a background as hardened warriors and/or gladiators. Seasoned combatants who revel in conflict. Barring the Wreckers and the Dinobots, the majority of the Autobots were medics, scientists, civilians within Cybertronian culture.

I believe it was even Huffer in the original MTMTE animated 3-part episodes that lamented something to the effect "We aren't fighters like they are". Which on the surface made the Decepticons immediately more appealing overall, but Optimus Prime was *somewhat* of a superhero among normal bots. Made all the more shocking when he died in TFTM.

However lackluster the Autobots may have been at times, I have always favored the good side (again in the minority), because for all that the common Autobots lacked, they made up for, when they would pull out an ultimate weapon such as Omega Supreme, which is why to this day, he is my favorite character. Early on, even the powerful Dinobots were shown to be outmatched by the likes of Devastator, but nobody could beat Omega Supreme! (horrible Marvel Comics Buzzsaw event aside). He was the Autobots atom bomb, only used when absolutely necessary (yes I'm exaggerating but you get the point ) Also the fact that he was the one Autobot shown to actually be feared by the Decepticons in various incarnations made him that much more appealing. Unlike Optimus Prime, who may have been respected by Megatron, Omega Supreme actually struck fear into the heart of evil, which resonates with me.

o.supreme wrote:I believe it was even Huffer in the original MTMTE animated 3-part episodes that lamented something to the effect "We aren't fighters like they are". Which on the surface made the Decepticons immediately more appealing overall, but Optimus Prime was *somewhat* of a superhero among normal bots. Made all the more shocking when he died in TFTM.

However lackluster the Autobots may have been at times, I have always favored the good side (again in the minority), because for all that the common Autobots lacked, they made up for, when they would pull out an ultimate weapon such as Omega Supreme, which is why to this day, he is my favorite character. Early on, even the powerful Dinobots were shown to be outmatched by the likes of Devastator, but nobody could beat Omega Supreme! (horrible Marvel Comics Buzzsaw event aside). He was the Autobots atom bomb, only used when absolutely necessary (yes I'm exaggerating but you get the point ) Also the fact that he was the one Autobot shown to actually be feared by the Decepticons in various incarnations made him that much more appealing. Unlike Optimus Prime, who may have been respected by Megatron, Omega Supreme actually struck fear into the heart of evil, which resonates with me.

Another thing about Omega Supreme that was quite unique was he had no counterpart and/or rival. In a series were virtually everyone is paired off, he stands alone. I suppose Sky Lynx shares that aspect too, but I never liked the Bird-Jet-Thing.

Now on the one hand I would really be interested in a new TR-style Omega Supreme. But, not as a Parts-Former. I dislike the Parts-Formers, almost as much as the Pretenders. Because transformation is the central premise of the entire series and if you ain't got that, you ain't a Transformer.
I think a new toy should be along the lines of the hugely underrated Animated interpretation of Omega, as the Ark itself. Alternatively stick with the G1 aesthetic but make him a Triple Changer instead.

Well I don't want to go down the *parts former* rabbit hole again, because it got ugly in other threads, I just want to let that go. But Devastator arose as a decent rival for Omega Supreme. Additionally FT-20 (IMHO) is a great melding of actual transformation, and a faithful rendition to the original. I'm sure Hasbro could probably not come up with something like that which is affordable, but admittedly I cant think off the top of my head any other alternatives that appeal to me personally.

To be fair, obviously prices vary by region etc but I bought TR Fort Max and Trypticon for about £100 each. Which given the size of them, made them perhaps better value for money than the MP Line. I imagine Omega Supreme would revolve around that price point and scale too. Although I don't recall Omega Supreme being in the same era as Fort Max and Scoponok, so I don't really know how he should scale against them. Taller than a Gestalt, smaller than a City Bot?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote: Taller than a Gestalt, smaller than a City Bot?

More or less. Omega was about a head-and-shoulders taller (or about 10%) than the average Combiner. Since then, such as in DW comics, he was much bigger, but not quite as big as a cityformer. A Titan Sized Omega Supreme scaled about the same size as CW Devaststor, or the upcoming PotP Predaking would be a good fit.

I've been mulling over my response for quite some time. First I'd like to say that I can enjoy the series by myself. I know I can because as a kid I changed schools a lot so sometimes I'd have years where I didn't have any friends. That didn't stop me from enjoying my interests. Heck, there have been some times where I had lost friends because I didn't pretend to like things I did not.

That might seem a little bit harsh but I don't like pretending to like the 'cool' thing to make friends. While everyone at my high school was obsessed with 'gangsta rap' I never pretended to. I was into metal and if people thought I was uncool for that I didn't care. Being genuine and true to my self is paramount.

When it comes to Transformers, I started out just enjoying watching TFP with a friend of mine from college. Little did she know she created a monster. Shortly after finishing TFP I wanted more so I got into the comics, started researching the other shows and watching them. Most of this was done by myself. It did not occur to me that I would get into the fan community until later on.

I started talking to people online and made a few good friends. (And this was in a time in my life where I really needed them.) Transformers has motivated me to do a lot of good things. Helped me get over my fear of driving, is a common interest, helps me practice my repair skills and has characters that inspire me.

I'm here because TFs make me happy and as Va'al said, it should be about joy. I find joy in the entertainment of the series, in the creativity of the toys and in sharing this with other people. It's the fans that keep things going. Remember when I mentioned heavy metal above? Fans keep bands going with their support and we keep Hasbro making Transformers series with ours. Without the fans there would be no Transformers. I'd also like to point out if you see someone who has a faction symbol on their car or on their shirt then you have a potential new friend.

I see a lot of good in the TF fan community or "the fandom". I went to a small TF con in my local area and everyone was super nice. I felt like I fit in instantly. A lot for TF fans are smart and curious people who have an interest in how things work. As a person who loves to take stuff apart and fix it (TF figures especially) it's nice to not be the only tinkerer.

I think my place is to add positivity to the fan community. Whether it is through doing news articles, or just talking to people on the boards it's important to me to give something back. Seibertron runs because of all of us and so does the fandom. I'm glad I get to be a part of that.

WreckerJack wrote: I'd also like to point out if you see someone who has a faction symbol on their car or on their shirt then you have a potential new friend.

I have four TF T-shirts. Two of which are about 10 years old and was a mistaken duplicate delivery, which of course I didn't mind at all. Three out of four of these boldly and largely display the Decepticon faction symbol. Note that's the traditional symbol, not the redesigns.
My favourite one in fact, the symbol takes up a good two thirds of the front of the T-shirt. My fourth one, bought a month ago, sports the entire Season 1 Decepticon roster in vehicle mode. I like how for the most part, the knowing smiles it raises in those of a Certain age and even newer fans I'd imagine. The faction symbols are perhaps more iconic than any single design of the toys. Likewise I have seen several real life examples of the metal faction symbols on a variety of cars and bikes. Which brings out a smile in me too.
I am somewhat fortunate to have two real life friends that are heavily into TF. More so than myself, given my lapses, which they have never had. I like the variety in opinion/taste among TF fans. That the series breadth it is vast enough for two similar people to like wildly different things.

Great post Va'al, hope we get more posts like these

When I was reading this, I thought it was a 'I quit' type post.
I'm glad it wasn't

Burn wrote:I'm a life long fan of Doctor Who. But that fandom has become so incredibly toxic these days. Don't like the idea of a female Doctor? You get branded a crying man-baby. (I'm keeping an open mind though). I'm just not venturing there at the moment.

Or a sexist pig.

Btw, most fan bases are toxic mate, which is a sad thing and putts people off certain franchises. (Look at the Rick and Morty fanbase, they are insulted just because of one fan attacking a Mcdonalds.) It's one reason why fans of a show must be careful about what they do.

Yeah, there is a line between fan and fanboy. That line is a level of obsession that can be quite intense, toxic and creepy. I always try to maintain a bit of perspective when relating my interests to others.

BattleConvoy wrote:most fan bases are toxic mate,

This is something a lot of people forget. I've seen many posts on this forum over the years along the lines of "you think this fandom is bad? You should see ..." or the reverse "... is a much better fandom than this one!".

It's a combination of words on a screen (inflictions can be hard to convey through the written word for most people), the anonymity people believe they have (they can't touch me! I'll say whatever I want!), different cultures (I can't begin to tell you the number of times I've said something which us Australians say every day but is considered offensive in another part of the world), different beliefs ... the list goes on.

It's a big ol melting pot, and I've seen many people over the years breeze into the forums, and then quickly breeze out because the melting pot, for whatever reason, wasn't for them. And I have no doubt a few of those have questioned where they stand amongst the fandom and if they want to be a part of it.

I do have to wonder why some fandoms have gotten toxic (or maybe why the small minority have gotten considerably louder), while the subject is probably beyond the remit of this thread, it is something I've thought about recently.

ZeroWolf wrote:I do have to wonder why some fandoms have gotten toxic (or maybe why the small minority have gotten considerably louder), while the subject is probably beyond the remit of this thread, it is something I've thought about recently.

The world is becoming more and more sensitive and easily offended. You've also got a younger generation coming along and joining fandoms.

Doctor Who is a great example of that divide, you've got the classic Who fans who are in the 40+ range, and the modern Who fans who range from teenagers to late 20's. Imagine being a 40 year old trying to reason with a 20 year old why Tom Baker is vastly superior to Matt Smith!

Burn wrote:Doctor Who is a great example of that divide, you've got the classic Who fans who are in the 40+ range, and the modern Who fans who range from teenagers to late 20's. Imagine being a 40 year old trying to reason with a 20 year old why Tom Baker is vastly superior to Matt Smith!

Tangent I know but, I'm in a bit of a weird place when it comes to Doctor Who. Wherein growing up, The only Doctor I knew of was Sylvester McCoy.. and the cancellation of the show. Alongside The one-off Paul McGann Movie, which I did enjoy. I always felt it's a shame how the 8th Doctor ended up with the short 'audio only' straw. As far as New Who, while I am a fan to varying degrees, the only New Doctor I liked so far was Christoper Eccleston. Whereas most people I talk to raved about David Tennant, who I couldn't stand.

End Tangent.

Tangent two, regarding the over sensitivity of the age we live in, a friend once said to me that David Bowie must have been the Nexus of Reality. Because it all went to hell with his passing.

End Tangent 2.

ZeroWolf wrote:I do have to wonder why some fandoms have gotten toxic (or maybe why the small minority have gotten considerably louder), while the subject is probably beyond the remit of this thread, it is something I've thought about recently.

I'd guess people with certain personality types are more drawn to things they can relate to. I often wonder why particular fandoms seem to attract people with toxic behaviors more than others. I know we shouldn't stereotype people but it's partially true. I have a theory that the toxic ones usually have their own set of issues. Its not the thing they are into that is the problem, it is their behavior.

Take anime fans for example. I have known a lot of creepy and disrespectful people who were into anime. I came to realize that it wasn't the anime that was the issue but the obsessive nature of the fans. For the record I know tons of really cool people who enjoy anime. I myself have enjoyed DBZ and Rourni Kenshin so please do not think I am being rude or judgmental of anime fans as a whole, I am using it as an example nothing more. I am well aware that most anime fans are regular people and I don't want anyone to misinterpret my example.

You don't see Transformers fans out there making engine revving sounds at the grocery store or talking like Optimus Prime 24/7. Yet, I have known anime fans to talk in a weird mix of Japanese and English or do embarrassing things like imitate anime characters in a setting that does not warrant it. I often wonder why fans of certain fandoms do things like this and do they realize that what they are doing is very off putting?

I think another part of it might be social isolation. When someone suffers from a mental health issue they may take comfort in something in an unhealthy way. This is known as addiction. It's not just alcohol and tobacco that people can addicted to. Some people are hooked on gambling, online gaming or whatever it is that helps that person escape. I don't doubt some people who are obsessively interested in fiction are suffering from an addiction issue.

This can be very isolating and unhealthy. If people (especially young people) miss out on social time and don't learn social ques they may be rejected by their peers. This may lead to them delving further into being isolated instead of getting help. I don't want to sound like I am putting these people down, it just bums me out that people leave their issues to fester and I wish I could just give them a respectful nudge.

Another issue that comes up sometimes is bullying within fandoms and that really grinds my gears. I remember this from other fandoms I was in as a teen. A popular person in the fandom was usually the person to do it too. They would have their personal army of trolls and when someone disagreed with them they'd manipulate others to insult and dogpile them into oblivion. Some would go as far as purposely trying to frame that person as some type of bigot to get them in trouble whether it was true or not. (Crying wolf does no one any good because it makes true cases harder to believe.)

When it comes to this kind of toxic person I suggest just block them, don't talk to them and don't give them any attention at all. There is no reason to take something fun and turn it into some kind of drama game. People need to be aware of this kind of person and avoid them. If you take away the attention they so crave, you will take their power away with it.

That was a lot, but it has been on my mind for a long time so have a brain dump.

My experience of any 'fandom' (and I use that term very broadly) is that it can be like a long elevator ride with a flatulent middle-aged man, who brags about the volume and potency of his gaseous emissions, and will ***** you out for being 'overly sensitive' or 'too easily offended' if anyone else in the confined space so much as wrinkles his or her nose.

Burn wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I do have to wonder why some fandoms have gotten toxic (or maybe why the small minority have gotten considerably louder), while the subject is probably beyond the remit of this thread, it is something I've thought about recently.

The world is becoming more and more sensitive and easily offended. You've also got a younger generation coming along and joining fandoms.

Doctor Who is a great example of that divide, you've got the classic Who fans who are in the 40+ range, and the modern Who fans who range from teenagers to late 20's. Imagine being a 40 year old trying to reason with a 20 year old why Tom Baker is vastly superior to Matt Smith!

Habelieve me I've done this as well though you still have some years on me burn.