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Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Burn » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:21 am

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Dr. Caelus wrote:Lets talk about "sexualization of minors".

When I was very, very small, I proposed marriage to our pastor's daughter during our Sunday school class. I promised she would have apple pies and a mustang convertible (someday). She declined my proposal and I accepted that. No one ever really questioned, though, where a small boy had learned the concept of courtship (however clumsy or transactionary it might have been).

When I was a little older, I was drafted to serve as a ringbearer in my uncle's wedding. They dressed me in a little tux, just like the men in the wedding party, and people raved over how 'handsome' I was. I don't really recall anyone pointing out that a wedding is a tradition celebrating a sexual union between two people, and that I'd been costumed up for the ceremony to look like a miniature copy of the groom.

My favorite movies in elementary school were Robin Hood and Three Musketeers. I remember reading the slow-pitch junior novelizations of them. I loved the romance as well as the action, and dreamed of being the debonaire swashbuckler sweeping damsels off their feet. I even dressed up as D'artagnan for Halloween in fifth grade, hoping the person I had a crush on would be impressed. They were not, but I also don't remember anyone objected to a minor admiring a romantic hero.

Morgana Macawber, Tenel Ka, and Blackarachnia. Enough said, I think.

When I got older, I read Shadows of the Empire, Courtship of Princess Leia, Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and Glory Road. Very little objection to the content in those books.

And throughout there were Valentine's Day parties, dances, etc., where everyone was supposed to be preoccupied with who liked who and who was going where with whom.

And the transition to actual dating was sort of especially memorable for me because the day in seventh grade that I got an official girlfriend was the day all of those totally innocent and 'unsexualized' minors stopped calling me a 'fag' (or other permutations thereof). Of course, no one had ever been overly bothered that the other kids knew that word or wondered where they had heard it.

This is to say nothing of the incessant reminders that I was a boy and the extensive instruction from society in general on what expectations that entailed at that time and what it would entail in the future.

So, between the deep-baked traditions of Christian America, the movies based on centuries old romance stories, the cartoons with their comical will-they-or-won't-theys, the geeky scifi novels, the school dances, and the stupid candy hearts no one should ever actually eat, I feel like I was pretty thoroughly 'sexualized' by my 18th birthday.

But somehow, that sort of indoctrination, that pervasive, nonstop, in-your-face reinforcement of 'this is what we do' never really raises any concerns, except among - maybe - those parents who are trying to raise their chidren with no knowledge of sex beyond, 'The wife submits to her husband.'

Instead, people lose their minds over a grown man wearing a rainbow shirt or a cartoon character not identifying with either of the two most popular genders, because they believe that simple awareness of the lack of universal condemnation of same sex marriage, trans* people, or nonbinary individuals will suddenly 'sexualize' their children.

This.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:18 am

Now, let's talk history.

Lets jump back only a few hundred years. For a long time the fear of 'witchcraft' was curbed by a few factors - (1) witchcraft was not universally associated with the devil, (2) the Catholic Church did not endorse the notion that God would allow witchcraft to have any real power, and (3) inquisition into such matters would frequently become fixated on the sexual practices of individuals in the community, which no one much wanted investigated too deeply.

But in the late 1400s, some witch hunters were seeking endorsements from the Catholic Church. Witch-hunter Heinrich Kramer was given the Pope's blessing to hunt witches in Germany, particularly to address fears that *some* practitioners of witchcraft sought to "ruin and cause to perish the offspring of women" - the Church still recognized that not all witches were evil or capable of harm, but began to allow that *some* were, and that those individuals would be focused on converting or hatming their community's children.

With help from Jacob Sprenger (who later condemned Kramer) Kramer eventually published a lengthy and detailed conspiracy theory called the Malleus Maleficarum. It appropriated a pseudo academic tone and pushed the belief that *all* witchcraft was intimately tied to the devil, and therefore *inherently* evil, and that it could do real harm to people, justifying an actual response from legal authorities. He also devoted an entire chapter to identifying its main practitioners: women.

According to Kramer, society of his time was rife with sin (the present in any western society is always the most sinful time ever), and this was due to the corrupting influence of women, who were 'faithless', 'weak', 'carnal' 'filth' who were prone to seduction by the devil and would seek to spread the diabolical corruption to every corner of society.

So, the children were imperiled by the sexual corruption of women. Particularly those women who did not get on well with their husbands, or those who eschewed marriage altogether, preferring the company of other women. Some men could be a threat, too, but logically it was those few who were simlar too women, men perceived in someway to be effeminate.

Kramer's superficially ayuthoritative rantings resonated well with Europeans' pervasive need to be afraid of something/someone, and contributed to a centuries long attempt to purge certain types of women and men from society, for the sake of the children.

If you want a case study on this, study the Salem witch trials in detail. Everything about them bridges the traditions established by Kramer to the modern anxieties about the corruption of youth.

Although fears of witchcraft subsided with Europeans' move away from religious zeal, the fear that certain individuals were prone to corrupting and abusing children persisted. These fears were in full force when Adolf Hitler (1925) declared that,

Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth...Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea.


That line from Mein Kampf led on to Hitler back-stabbing his gay bestfriend and Heinrich Himmler (1937) taking this stance on homosexuality within his SS:

There are those homosexuals who take the view: what I do is my business, a purely private matter. However, all things which take place in the sexual sphere are not the private affair of the individual, but signify the life and death of the nation... I have now decided upon the following: in each case, these people will naturally be publicly degraded, expelled, and handed over to the courts. Following completion of the punishment imposed by the courts, they will be sent, by my order, to a concentration camp, and they will be shot in the concentration camp, while attempting to escape.


Of course, I hope most of us remember that did not stop with the ranks of the SS. Ostensibly over concerns of maintaining Germany's population growth, 90,000 men were arrested for homosexuality and between 5,000 and 15,000 were sent to concentration camps. Clearly, sending a man to a concentration camp does not improve the pace of the nation's reproduction, but (in their minds) it protected younger, more impressionable minds from his corruption.

This is exactly what is meant by "grooming" and exactly why the word is so gut wrenchingly offensive to hear being casually thrown around now. The concept has been a core component of European persecution of homosexuals for hundreds of years (if not longer).

"Grooming" has been the recurring justification for rounding up, trying, and castrating, imprisoning, or executing gay people.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:53 am

So, given that context, how could any group of gay people rally around the term "grooming"?

Well, first, a society with free thought will always have some people who act against the interests of their group. It's not as if there were no women who opposed women's suffrage, and pejoratives like "Uncle Tom" and "coconut" get used for a reason.

Second, sexual orientation isn't dissociated from greed. The founder of "Gays Against Grooming" has been pushing far right messaging as an influencer for a while, and is now actively employed by X Strategies, a socisl media communications firm that pushes those ideas by paying influencers as young as 14 to amplify their rhetoric. The resurgence of the "groomer" slur coincided with her employment with that business, and she has gone onto establish "GAG", bringing her partner onboard soon after. Of course "GAG" takes money from anyone who will donate directly or buy their merchandise, and while it claims to be seeking nonprofit status, it currently is not a nonprofit.

[The following is not an area of expertise for me, so anyone with better than a few graduate classes and conferences touching on the topic, please feel free to correct my history.]

Finally, anyone who thinks it still remarkable that a lesbian would use such a phrase needs to understand that the gay community has not always been 'a community'. Although gay women have faced a great deal of persecution due to the intersection of their orientation and their gender, 20th century fears of 'grooming' are very targeted at gay men and transwomen.

An enormous part of the LGBT or LGBTQIA+ concept has been unifying disparate groups under their shared experiences of marginalization and persecution, but you don't have to go back too far to see the faultlines in the community. Some of that was due to the fact that lesbianism became entangled with certain iterations of radical feminism in around the 70s(?).

The extreme far end of the feminist movement became so invested in the idea that men were inherently at fault for the world's problems, that they decided lesbianism was the only way for women to truly shake off the patriarchy. They treated it as a political position, rather than a sexual orientation. That - as you mught expect - went really badly for them, but certain attitudes dug in - like hatred of transmen (defectors), transwomen (infiltrators), and bisexuals - persisted for a long time. Even as many lesbians stepped up to help and advocate for HIV+ gay men during the "GRIDS" scare, some lesbians were building up new hate for bisexual men and women, who they saw as responsible for the spread of HIV beyond gay men.

So, yeah, there's a lot of division there, and coupled with the incentive to milk straight people for their hard-earned money, there's a lot of justification for pandering to the old hate.

I'm still just beside myself over the fact that they actually named their group "GAG".
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:03 am

And, to be completely blunt, that all did take a long time to write, so I'm not going to debate it unless someone is going to pay my consulting rate of $60 an hour.

Pretend history or reality doesn't exist if you want. I've hopefully done my due diligence as an LGBT ally by speaking up, but no one's paying me to fix the homophobes, so I'm claiming the rest of my weekend for myself.

My t-shirt should be here in time for the movie premier. I am nervous about wearing a Pride shirt around here, but as my wife pointed out, our gay friends and trans family members wear their pride 24/7.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:25 am

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It's that simple."
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Be gay all you want, I don't care.

The only thing that irk me (appart the obvious soulless corporate pandering) is the fact that the rainbow is now EXCLUSIVELY a LGBTQ symbol. You can no longer wear or color something with a rainbow without being labelled as part of the "LGBT".

The rainbow is a natural phenomenon and should belong to everyone.
Still, the rainbow was a CHRISTIAN symbol for thousands of years. It represented the day after the Great Flood and that God will never do such a thing ever again.

But just a few decades ago, the significance of the rainbow have been changed due to a very small group of activists. Forever.

The very same thing happened before with another well known symbol, the Buddhist Manji. A symbol thousands of years old used through Asia, forever smeared by the Nazi.

I wonder what will be the next old and major symbol to be corrupted for eternity? :-?
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:59 am

-Kanrabat- wrote:Still, the rainbow was a CHRISTIAN symbol for thousands of years.


Jewish.

It represented the day after the Great Flood and that God will never do such a thing ever again.


Noah was Jewish, not Christian.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:04 am

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Dr. Caelus wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Still, the rainbow was a CHRISTIAN symbol for thousands of years.


Jewish.

It represented the day after the Great Flood and that God will never do such a thing ever again.


Noah was Jewish, not Christian.


Oh yeah Jewish.
But eh, close enough.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby zko » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:01 pm

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-Kanrabat- wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Still, the rainbow was a CHRISTIAN symbol for thousands of years.


Jewish.

It represented the day after the Great Flood and that God will never do such a thing ever again.


Noah was Jewish, not Christian.


Oh yeah Jewish.
But eh, close enough.


If you are pushing it to that level of "technicality" Jewish did not exist with Noah either, he was before that. Israel was a name assigned to Jacob in Genesis who was several generations after the flood.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:55 pm

zko wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Still, the rainbow was a CHRISTIAN symbol for thousands of years.


Jewish.

It represented the day after the Great Flood and that God will never do such a thing ever again.


Noah was Jewish, not Christian.


Oh yeah Jewish.
But eh, close enough.


If you are pushing it to that level of "technicality" Jewish did not exist with Noah either, he was before that. Israel was a name assigned to Jacob in Genesis who was several generations after the flood.


That is true, but the point is the character of Noah and his story belongs to Jewish mythology/folklore, so if you're concerned with who God gave the rainbow to, it wasn't Christians.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:58 pm

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Dr. Caelus wrote:That is true, but the point is the character of Noah and his story belongs to Jewish mythology/folklore, so if you're concerned with who God gave the rainbow to, it wasn't Christians.


But you gotta give it to the Christians for being "the first" to write a sequel of a classic.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Lore Keeper » Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:48 pm

Dr. Caelus wrote:And, to be completely blunt, that all did take a long time to write, so I'm not going to debate it unless someone is going to pay my consulting rate of $60 an hour.

Pretend history or reality doesn't exist if you want. I've hopefully done my due diligence as an LGBT ally by speaking up, but no one's paying me to fix the homophobes, so I'm claiming the rest of my weekend for myself.

My t-shirt should be here in time for the movie premier. I am nervous about wearing a Pride shirt around here, but as my wife pointed out, our gay friends and trans family members wear their pride 24/7.

Bro really wrote a novel, patted himself on the back for being such a good ally, and demanded payment to respond to any criticism of his omnibus of forum posts.
I think that supposed doctorate of yours has given you a very inflated sense of self-importance. :lol:
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:21 pm

Lore Keeper wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:And, to be completely blunt, that all did take a long time to write, so I'm not going to debate it unless someone is going to pay my consulting rate of $60 an hour.

Pretend history or reality doesn't exist if you want. I've hopefully done my due diligence as an LGBT ally by speaking up, but no one's paying me to fix the homophobes, so I'm claiming the rest of my weekend for myself.

My t-shirt should be here in time for the movie premier. I am nervous about wearing a Pride shirt around here, but as my wife pointed out, our gay friends and trans family members wear their pride 24/7.

Bro really wrote a novel, patted himself on the back for being such a good ally, and demanded payment to respond to any criticism of his omnibus of forum posts.
I think that supposed doctorate of yours has given you a very inflated sense of self-importance. :lol:


Nope! I just know what my time is worth!

As far as 'patting myself on the back', I wrote all of that on a smartphone screen, after a long day on eastern time, and didn't throw out any of the many wonderful insults I have rattling around in the back of my head at any given time, so yes, yes I did.
Last edited by Dr. Caelus on Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby firefox91 » Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:30 pm

Dr. Caelus wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:And, to be completely blunt, that all did take a long time to write, so I'm not going to debate it unless someone is going to pay my consulting rate of $60 an hour.

Pretend history or reality doesn't exist if you want. I've hopefully done my due diligence as an LGBT ally by speaking up, but no one's paying me to fix the homophobes, so I'm claiming the rest of my weekend for myself.

My t-shirt should be here in time for the movie premier. I am nervous about wearing a Pride shirt around here, but as my wife pointed out, our gay friends and trans family members wear their pride 24/7.

Bro really wrote a novel, patted himself on the back for being such a good ally, and demanded payment to respond to any criticism of his omnibus of forum posts.
I think that supposed doctorate of yours has given you a very inflated sense of self-importance. :lol:


Nope! I just know what my time is worth!


Which is nothing? You didn't change anyone's minds, all you did was pontificate. So if all those words resulted in no change, it makes them worthless.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Dr. Caelus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:35 pm

firefox91 wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:
Dr. Caelus wrote:And, to be completely blunt, that all did take a long time to write, so I'm not going to debate it unless someone is going to pay my consulting rate of $60 an hour.

Pretend history or reality doesn't exist if you want. I've hopefully done my due diligence as an LGBT ally by speaking up, but no one's paying me to fix the homophobes, so I'm claiming the rest of my weekend for myself.

My t-shirt should be here in time for the movie premier. I am nervous about wearing a Pride shirt around here, but as my wife pointed out, our gay friends and trans family members wear their pride 24/7.

Bro really wrote a novel, patted himself on the back for being such a good ally, and demanded payment to respond to any criticism of his omnibus of forum posts.
I think that supposed doctorate of yours has given you a very inflated sense of self-importance. :lol:


Nope! I just know what my time is worth!


Which is nothing? You didn't change anyone's minds, all you did was pontificate. So if all those words resulted in no change, it makes them worthless.


If.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby DeadCaL » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:09 am

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firefox91 wrote:This is where I have a serious problem with all of this. If someone dares to speak against these types of campaigns, even if respectful, they are labeled a "bigot". Children don't have the life experience or maturity for a lot of things. People can't drink, smoke, drive, join the military, or even open a bank account until they reach a certain age. The reason for all of that is the same. Experience and maturity to make the right decisions. Yet here we are as a society encouraging them to think they are another gender than what biology has determined they are. Adults can be whoever they want to be, that is their choice as someone who has matured to adulthood. A child is not mature enough to make these decisions. I'm all for treating all people the same. I don't support hate speech, I don't support wrecking of Target or Bud Light displays in protest. But I also don't support manipulating the minds of the most impressionable people on the planet to make them believe they are something they probably aren't. I certainly don't support them getting drug or surgical treatment to affirm what they were manipulated to be. Gender dysmorphia is a mental health issue and should be studied and treated as such, with a lot counseling and in some cases medication. We don't affirm suicidal people by telling them to just go jump off a bridge. So why are we affirming people that think they are a member of the opposite sex with medical science and transforming them? If all of this were so natural, then why doesn't the ability to change gender naturally occur? I couldn't have been done 100 years ago. It's only now with the medical science it can be done. Yet, it still can't provide reproductive organs or change chromosomes. It's all fake and covered up. It's putting on a mask to hide from reality. It addressing insanity with more insanity. But when we point these things out, we are written off as bigots. We aren't bigots, we're thinking with a clear and rational mind. We are tired of being told we have to accept it. We sure as hell are tired of our children being manipulated.


Well, what a willfully ignorant word salad about what moral fetishists think LGBT people. The more I read of your rant, the more it's clear you are a troll rather than just uneducated.

Not that you'll care, but for anyone interested, here's a few corrections.

- No one chooses to be gay or trans. Unless there's some secret evidence you personally have been holding back?
- No one makes children gay or trans. An utterly lazy trope if ever I heard one :roll:
- Gender dysphoria is not a mental heath disorder and HAS been studied and researched, by guess who. Actual experts, and not ranty randos off the internet.
- Questioning why people don't randomly change sex is just bizarre and only thrown in to cause confusion. A completely disingenuous disruption tactic.
- No one writes people off for 'pointing things out'. This is just victim signalling. If you willfully make up nonsense about LGBT people and go on rants about children being converted, then yes, you are going to be called a bigot. You are not a victim.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:49 am

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I'm not quoting the post above but I'll just point out that even though yes, you cannot chose to be gay or "trans", but you can chose to do or not do body alterations that are irreversible and permanent.

Puberty is always a hard and confusing period in the life of any child. The child will question their sexuality. It's normal. But too many of those vulnerable children are then groomed into doing something drastic that will never, ever be changed. Too many gay and autistic children are victims of the trans groomers.

Look up "detransitioners". The victims speak up and it's horrifying.

There's a reason why it's 18+ to take alcohol or to get tattoos. If a child or teen feels "trans", they should get all the help and support. BUT NO DRUGS NOR CHIRURGIES BEFORE 21. Once adult, if the person still feels trans, their mind should be clear enough to decide if taking the drastic measures to alter their body is the right one or not. But not before that.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby whacko » Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:22 pm

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Wow, this comment section became a shit-show really quickly.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Lore Keeper » Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:43 am

whacko wrote:Wow, this comment section became a shit-show really quickly.

Honestly, I applaud the mods for leaving the comments section open, knowing full well it would be a shit-show. Stifling conversation, no matter how heated, is seldom the answer. It's more than I can say for some other websites that posted the story and had comments disabled from the get-go... >:oP
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby -Kanrabat- » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:33 am

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It's that simple."
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Lore Keeper wrote:It's more than I can say for some other websites that posted the story and had comments disabled from the get-go... >:oP


Disabling comments is cowardly and it's admitting defeat.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby Lore Keeper » Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:14 am

-Kanrabat- wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:It's more than I can say for some other websites that posted the story and had comments disabled from the get-go... >:oP


Disabling comments is cowardly and it's admitting defeat.

Hear! Hear!
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby snavej » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:07 am

Motto: "Follow your instincts and your common sense."
A future TF storyline should be 'Culture Wars'! ;) :POPCORN:

I wonder if Bud Light is a good substitute for energon?! It's very cheap or free right now.
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Re: Hasbro Adds Pride Merchandise Featuring Transformers and More - Proceeds Benefit LGBTQ+ Youth

Postby -Kanrabat- » Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:51 am

Motto: "Love it? GET IT!
It's that simple."
Weapon: Vibro-Axe
snavej wrote:A future TF storyline should be 'Culture Wars'! ;) :POPCORN:

I wonder if Bud Light is a good substitute for energon?! It's very cheap or free right now.


The war between :BOT: and :CON: is basically this.
With less over sexual things concerned, of course.

Still, for their war to last MILLIONS of years, the Transformers should put their act together.

Eh, at this point, the Transformers are not having a Culture War.
They have a War Culture. ;)
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