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"What's a man of steel?"
You've never heard of Superman?
"Oh...that's the guy with a cape or something, right?"


Well, the world's greatest hero is set to be on the big screen around this time next year, and Comic-Con was a great place for publicity. A trailer was shown for the first time at the Man of Steel panel, and is expected to be shown before The Dark Knight Rises in theaters: It's a total reboot and is supposed to be a slightly different, darker, Batman Begins-esque rendition of Superman; directed by Zack Snyder and produced by (who else?) Christopher Nolan. Superman is sometimes considered an American cultural icon and IGN named him the greatest superhero of all time. There's one problem: Where is he? He was given an attempt at a new "alternate sequel" to Superman II in 2006, but it was generally considered a failure. I read an article recently bringing forth the idea that there really is no place for Superman now. The movie goers now like edgy heroes- ones that don't always play by the rules, like Iron Man. Superman, on the other hand, is the polar opposite of the new age of Hollywood superhero blockbusters. He's nearly indestructible, he cares only for the safety of others, and he always does the right thing. When I was little (and even today) I could almost never find a dedicated line of Superman action figures. There was plenty of Batman and Spider-Man (and there still is) but the Last Son of Krypton always eluded me. Oh, yeah, and he never gets his own video game either. I think the world has almost forgotten Superman.

What do you think of Superman? Does he still have a place? Can "Man of Steel" do him justice, or will it be a Kryptonite nail in his coffin?

I think the biggest problem is DC is just plain and simple playing catch-up to Marvel now.

I read their plan to bring Justice League together is to do it through different media rather than just individual movies like Marvel have done.

So where does Superman fit in? I think he can easily fit in. He doesn't need to be darker and edgier, he can be the good old fashioned hero, but put him in a situation that tests his beliefs and everything he believes in.

I had a really long post, about how Superman is supposed to be the personification of "heroic" and how he just needs to be handled right and how people hypocritically criticize him for being unrealistically powerful while praising Batman for being unrealistically powerful. But then I decided it was just easier to show off that yes, Superman can be mind-blowingly awesome:



You just need the right villain. Luthor works in a pinch but the movies have never really captured what he's capable of. Darkseid is even better, one of the few villains who can not only take Superman in a straight-up fight, but can actually beat him. General Zod also works, since he's pretty much Superman with a God complex, and he's also going to be the villain in the new movie.

Burn wrote:So where does Superman fit in? I think he can easily fit in. He doesn't need to be darker and edgier, he can be the good old fashioned hero, but put him in a situation that tests his beliefs and everything he believes in.

I think you hit the nail on the head. He doesn't get his beliefs tested all too often. He just gets attacked physically and then has to rally back to bind up the villain.

Shadowman wrote:I had a really long post, about how Superman is supposed to be the personification of "heroic" and how he just needs to be handled right and how people hypocritically criticize him for being unrealistically powerful while praising Batman for being unrealistically powerful. But then I decided it was just easier to show off that yes, Superman can be mind-blowingly awesome:

Thanks for sharing that video. I actually haven't seen that before, but I enjoyed it.
I agree that Superman never has a good villain. Luthor has been done so many times without accomplishing anything, and I'm glad they didn't throw him straight into Man of Steel. I mean, look at Superman III and IV. The "villains" were totally new, and quite lame might I add. They were weird and didn't really put up the best fight. Darkseid would be great in a movie, considering the general public doesn't know much of him. I think Luthor could use a rest until a set-in-stone final chapter or for a Justice League film.

superman returns was just boring, I love the character but that movie was just meh. I like Zack Snyder's work(hated sucker punch though). but if they wanted to do a new superman trilogy that would work then they should do the death of superman, a year without superman, and rebirth. that's just my two cents.

Superman does have his dark moments though, and we've seen them in Superman vs The Elite (comic and cartoon), Kingdom Come (comic, seriously recommended) and pretty much any come-back-from-the-dead issue.

A good way of showing off the beliefs and confronting them, would be the inclusion of the Batman. However, I do not believe that could be possible in live action format. Too much of multimedia crossover, and it would just end up being a Marvel copycat move.

I'm a bit wary of Snyder's work, as he just seems to take the comic and stick it onto the storyboard. Visually appealing and aesthetically pleasing, yes - the opening credits for Watchmen are amazing - but not really sure about the story, or the film as a film per se. With any luck, Nolan's production powers (:P) might nudge him into the right direction.

Va'al wrote:Superman does have his dark moments though, and we've seen them in Superman vs The Elite (comic and cartoon), Kingdom Come (comic, seriously recommended) and pretty much any come-back-from-the-dead issue.

A good way of showing off the beliefs and confronting them, would be the inclusion of the Batman. However, I do not believe that could be possible in live action format. Too much of multimedia crossover, and it would just end up being a Marvel copycat move.

I'm a bit wary of Snyder's work, as he just seems to take the comic and stick it onto the storyboard. Visually appealing and aesthetically pleasing, yes - the opening credits for Watchmen are amazing - but not really sure about the story, or the film as a film per se. With any luck, Nolan's production powers (:P) might nudge him into the right direction.

You know, it seems people like dark superhero stories now, and Superman has never really brought that to the table. I guess that's why so many people think he's a "pansy" now, because he wears bright colors and he's always a nice guy. However, with Nolan on board I think we'll get a similar vibe to Batman Begins. Heck, even the title is Superman's nickname, much like how "The Dark Knight" was titled.
I'm positive we'll see the Caped Crusader and the Man of Steel together in live action, but most likely with the whole Justice League. Rumor has it DC is already working on a Justice League film, in which one of the members will have a cameo in Man of Steel before getting his/her own film. That's still a rumor, but it's something to think about. I really hope it's true, because DC is really lagging behind when they have all these great characters that nobody gets to see come to life.

OptiMagnus wrote:

Va'al wrote:Superman does have his dark moments though, and we've seen them in Superman vs The Elite (comic and cartoon), Kingdom Come (comic, seriously recommended) and pretty much any come-back-from-the-dead issue.

A good way of showing off the beliefs and confronting them, would be the inclusion of the Batman. However, I do not believe that could be possible in live action format. Too much of multimedia crossover, and it would just end up being a Marvel copycat move.

I'm a bit wary of Snyder's work, as he just seems to take the comic and stick it onto the storyboard. Visually appealing and aesthetically pleasing, yes - the opening credits for Watchmen are amazing - but not really sure about the story, or the film as a film per se. With any luck, Nolan's production powers (:P) might nudge him into the right direction.

You know, it seems people like dark superhero stories now, and Superman has never really brought that to the table. I guess that's why so many people think he's a "pansy" now, because he wears bright colors and he's always a nice guy. However, with Nolan on board I think we'll get a similar vibe to Batman Begins. Heck, even the title is Superman's nickname, much like how "The Dark Knight" was titled.
I'm positive we'll see the Caped Crusader and the Man of Steel together in live action, but most likely with the whole Justice League. Rumor has it DC is already working on a Justice League film, in which one of the members will have a cameo in Man of Steel before getting his/her own film. That's still a rumor, but it's something to think about. I really hope it's true, because DC is really lagging behind when they have all these great characters that nobody gets to see come to life.

I'm not sure I personally want a darker Superman.
It's pretty much what happened with Captain America: they are raised on a particular set of values and belief system (one's an American farm boy and the other is a patriotic soldier, who both believe in Truth, Justice and the American Way), and then plunged into a world that changes continuously, and good/bad isn't as clear-cut as they thought it would be after all.

The whole point of Superman (and Cap) is that they still believe in those values, most of the time finding themselves out of place, out of time, and a bit at loss. And this created excellent opportunities for the two stories I listed above to challenge those beliefs. Because the world has either forgotten him, or they believe he's an outdated pansy.
(Seriously, read Kingdom Come, I sincerely recommend it!)

Now, if by darker we get this, something along the lines of "What's so funny with Truth, Justice and the American Way?" or Kingdom Come or "Do we really need Superman?", then yes, I'll really look forwards to it.
Good luck, Snyder. Good luck, Nolan.


The short version: I agree with Burn, and what most other people have said so far. The rest is just fan-blurb.

Va'al wrote:I'm not sure I personally want a darker Superman.
It's pretty much what happened with Captain America: they are raised on a particular set of values and belief system (one's an American farm boy and the other is a patriotic soldier, who both believe in Truth, Justice and the American Way), and then plunged into a world that changes continuously, and good/bad isn't as clear-cut as they thought it would be after all.

The whole point of Superman (and Cap) is that they still believe in those values, most of the time finding themselves out of place, out of time, and a bit at loss. And this created excellent opportunities for the two stories I listed above to challenge those beliefs. Because the world has either forgotten him, or they believe he's an outdated pansy.
(Seriously, read Kingdom Come, I sincerely recommend it!)

Now, if by darker we get this, something along the lines of "What's so funny with Truth, Justice and the American Way?" or Kingdom Come or "Do we really need Superman?", then yes, I'll really look forwards to it.
Good luck, Snyder. Good luck, Nolan.


The short version: I agree with Burn, and what most other people have said so far. The rest is just fan-blurb.

Alright, I have to read this comic now. I've strayed away from superheroes for too long and I could use a good Superman story.
And I don't know if we'll see the question "Does the world really need Superman?" in this film, but likely the sequel after he's established himself as a superhero, since Man of Steel is an origin story. I would assume "someone" is going to have a hand in playing people's minds into turning on their own hero.

Back when it was still in theatures, I saw Superman Returns. Thought it was ok. I'd been meaning to get around to seeing it again, but never had that nudge. This thread and the idea of a new film was that nudge, and I watched it for the first time in six years.

Oh my gosh...nothing actually happens in the movie. I saw it got good reviews, but I'm wondering if they were watching a different movie than me. The cinematography and effects were good, but the story was bland with lingering scens that had no impact, and the characters were pretty nonexistant. I can see why there was no sequal, and in some respects it was worse than Superman III and IV.

So how can the new film rectify that? Kinda simple really. First thing is to highlight the fish out of water aspect of Clark Kent's/Superman's character. You know that Five For Fighting Superman song?



Use that as the emotional subplot. Show us that the world around Superman is fragile, that he is alone, that he does acknowledge and respect normal human strength. However, also show that he won't go over the edge, show his ideals and that no crime is beneath him, and that he won't stoop to his enemies level, but you'll have to push him to the brink to do that. Yes it's been done in the recent Superman vs. The Elite, most likley Superman: TAS and Justice League, but not live action, and hey it's an origin story that's reaching out to a wider audience.

Another aspect is they need to show why the world NEEDS a Superman, but also some boundries. I've seen in a couple documentaries that back in WWII Superman comics never showed him fighting Nazis or Japanese out of respect for the men and women giving their lives for their country. However, under the controlled conditions of a film, maybe you should show him solving a countries problems by himself, and demonstrate the backlash that comes from it. In a first movie where he's still establishing himself a blunder like that could really make the audiance connect with him, and show that he's not perfect.

Yet another aspect would be his status as a would-be god. No, Superman is not a god, but could easily be construed to be viewed as one, so you'd have to show how Superman must carefully decide how much he helps out those in need, and how much gratitude he acknowledges.

Then, in the sequel, get a tad darker. Show the good effects of Superman's presence, how so and so did such and such because Superman inspired them. Then show the bad, how criminals are upping their game to combat and avoid Superman, and maybe how the general public is getting riskier/stupider in their everyday behavior, figures "Hey it doesn't matter what I do, Superman will save me!".

Then have them question his actions, turn their back on him, and drive him out of Metropolis. Of course then show how things are generally normal after that, but have a crisis they can't handle alone come about(Doomsday?) that bring Superman back, despite their earlier actions. Have Superman succeed, but maybe at the cost(or presumed loss) of his life. Then let them lament about what they had done, and how they took him for granted.

And with that, I will end on a truly awesome Superman AMV that pretty much sums up my feelings of my last statement:

I'm not the biggest fan of Superman, but I do think he's always got enough pull to make a movie work. The problem is, at least as I see it, how do you present a believable enemy to a guy who's basically unbeatable?
As for the Justice League, I've heard they can't use Super/Batman in it becuase of the film rights being scattered among different film studios. What I've heard on the JL movie is that they'd basically try to make it with second tier characters, and I'm not sure how well that will play Peoria. The good thing about team movies is that there's always a bunch of people to choose from, but without the main ones, how good will it really be?

Dagon wrote:I'm not the biggest fan of Superman, but I do think he's always got enough pull to make a movie work. The problem is, at least as I see it, how do you present a believable enemy to a guy who's basically unbeatable?

Easily: He's not unbeatable. Just very, very difficult to beat. Darkseid, Mongul, and Doomsday have all handled him in a straight-up fight. All you really need is to give his opponents a subtle boost in power and we got a villain. Hell, give Luthor his suit (He IS basically Evil Tony Stark) and even he could believably hold his own against Superman.

Dagon wrote:As for the Justice League, I've heard they can't use Super/Batman in it becuase of the film rights being scattered among different film studios. What I've heard on the JL movie is that they'd basically try to make it with second tier characters, and I'm not sure how well that will play Peoria. The good thing about team movies is that there's always a bunch of people to choose from, but without the main ones, how good will it really be?

Well, it's the same studio, for both series. Even so, Warner Bros. owns the rights. (Not to mention DC itself)

Shadowman wrote:

Dagon wrote:I'm not the biggest fan of Superman, but I do think he's always got enough pull to make a movie work. The problem is, at least as I see it, how do you present a believable enemy to a guy who's basically unbeatable?

Easily: He's not unbeatable. Just very, very difficult to beat. Darkseid, Mongul, and Doomsday have all handled him in a straight-up fight. All you really need is to give his opponents a subtle boost in power and we got a villain. Hell, give Luthor his suit (He IS basically Evil Tony Stark) and even he could believably hold his own against Superman.

Dagon wrote:As for the Justice League, I've heard they can't use Super/Batman in it becuase of the film rights being scattered among different film studios. What I've heard on the JL movie is that they'd basically try to make it with second tier characters, and I'm not sure how well that will play Peoria. The good thing about team movies is that there's always a bunch of people to choose from, but without the main ones, how good will it really be?

Well, it's the same studio, for both series. Even so, Warner Bros. owns the rights. (Not to mention DC itself)

while I would rather see doomsday, darkseid would be awesome as well.

what about bizzaro?

Well, the teaser trailer has been released. Of course, it doesn't show a lot, but it got me hyped up.

Edit: I tried embedding the video but I'll admit I have no idea how to embed a YouTube video here.

OptiMagnus wrote:Well, the teaser trailer has been released. Of course, it doesn't show a lot, but it got me hyped up.

Edit: I tried embedding the video but I'll admit I have no idea how to embed a YouTube video here.

Gotcha:

Geez ... for over half that trailer I was thinking "Oh hey, an Aquaman movie!"

"Hey, we should make Superman darker!"
"Great idea, let's use a dusk palette!"


Is what I thought during the trailer. Serious amounts of grey in there.

That was a good ass trailer. Dude, I am stoked with a capital STOKED! But I agree with everyone here. We just need good villains for Superman so that it shows that Superman is limited in some ways. Yeah Lex Luthor could throw in some kryptonite or use a red sunlight machine. And there could also be Darkseid or Zod, someone to match his strength. But how about Felix Faust or Circe to show that Supermans third weekness (but they'll probably save them for a Wonder Woman movie or something). Because not everybody knows about magic, or even the red sunlight. And does anybody really see how he could beat someone who could just throw spells at him left and right? That's why I think it would be interesting.

Can't really gather much from the trailer, but it does seem to address the question of "Who are you, Superman?", so that's a good start.

I liked Superman Returns well enough, but so far this looks better. Maybe Costner's voice-over had a good effect. I am curious more than anything. I wonder if Michael Sheen will bring the same douchebaggery to Zod that Terence Stamp did. And Russell Crowe as Jor-El?

Also, no disrespect to the awesomeness that is Gene Hackman's acting, but I liked Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor. Even if the movie was mediocre and every other actor sucked. Just think, had Bryan Singer not left X3 for it, how much better that movie would have been. Not saying it was bad, except maybe for Juggernaut, which wasn't really Vinnie Jones' fault. Then again, he's my favorite X villain, so I was expecting near perfection.

Va'al wrote:Gotcha:

Thanks!

Some points I'd like to address from other posts:

- Snyder has said this Superman would be more vulnerable and have altered powers, so he wouldn't appear overpowered. I'm not sure what I think about that right now, but it can only make the movie more interesting. The Marc Webb Spider-Man seemed more vulnerable than the Sam Raimi incarnation, and I liked the new one better.
- This movie is intended to be darker, more serious, and less campy than other versions. It might take on a similar vibe to Batman Begins, which has been said by those who saw the longer trailer at SDCC. From what I see when people write about Superman on the Internet, a lot think he can't be taken seriously. I've heard the word "pansy" being thrown around to describe him. So, here's your darker, more serious Superman.
- Having said the above, I can safely assume General Zod will be a very brutal, formidable villain, and having said that, he should have extreme douchebaggery.

Huge Superman fan,and i think this movie will be a great to show more of him for the people who doesnt know himm very well.
Did anyone else got a Batman Begins vibe with Clark walking on the road with simple clothes and the beard unshaved?

TulioDude wrote:Huge Superman fan,and i think this movie will be a great to show more of him for the people who doesnt know himm very well.
Did anyone else got a Batman Begins vibe with Clark walking on the road with simple clothes and the beard unshaved?

Yes. A lot of people are saying this, and I think it's intended. Superman Returns was generally a failure, but the Batman trilogy was a huge success. Why not take the same route with Superman that Batman took? Superman used to be largely popular, but he's been stabbed with Kryptonite and kicked off a ledge with the Batman trilogy and Marvel movies, as well as the flop mentioned above. I can't imagine this movie could be bad after a sad decade for Superman. I'm beginning to think kids don't know who he is anymore, so I hope this will be a good revival like Iron Man was. Heck, when I was in grade school I was the only kid who thought Superman was cool.

Do you guys think the movie will be called Superman Man of steel or Man of steel?