Transformers: The Last Knight No. 1 in New Openings, but Drops at Global Box Office

griftimus prime wrote:this is a really bad time for paramount.

Deadput wrote:if this keeps up since if it gets worse enough that's going to be the end of our franchise

Deadput wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:this is a really bad time for paramount.

And to be a Transformers fan if this keeps up since if it gets worse enough that's going to be the end of our franchise and even if another Transforming robots brand comes around it's not going to be Transformers.

Graviton wrote:I doubt it will be that bad if the movies fail, this brand has run almost continuously for the past 32 years showing how versatile it really is.

JazZeke wrote:Kid, this franchise existed long before the movies, and it will exist in some form or another long after the movies. The toys themselves are the driving force and as long as they turn a profit, they'll stick around.

Kurona wrote:Everything ends at some point, but there's a lot of franchises that have managed to put up a bloody good fight -- how do we know Transformers won't last as long as say, Sherlock has? Or Shakespeare?
... feels wrong comparing Transformers to those two with the context of the live-action movies, but the point stands. It could very easily last a damn long time before dying and then inevitably getting resurrected by 2140's 2110s nostalgia kick

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

At least now I know I'm not a fan of anything. I won't blindly defend these movies just because I like them. I've shunned and condemned entire goddamn properties I once loved and adored, all because they put out something I didn't like. Marvel, Star Wars, and most recently the Mass Effect games are among those properties. I'm just hoping Transformers doesn't join the ranks.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

Sabrblade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

At least now I know I'm not a fan of anything. I won't blindly defend these movies just because I like them. I've shunned and condemned entire goddamn properties I once loved and adored, all because they put out something I didn't like. Marvel, Star Wars, and most recently the Mass Effect games are among those properties. I'm just hoping Transformers doesn't join the ranks.

It's... okay to like something that isn't good. That's what "guilty pleasures" are.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

At least now I know I'm not a fan of anything. I won't blindly defend these movies just because I like them. I've shunned and condemned entire goddamn properties I once loved and adored, all because they put out something I didn't like. Marvel, Star Wars, and most recently the Mass Effect games are among those properties. I'm just hoping Transformers doesn't join the ranks.

It's... okay to like something that isn't good. That's what "guilty pleasures" are.

Nope. I look at everything from an objective point of view. If I say something is "the greatest thing of all time," it has to live up to those standards, otherwise, it ceases to be the greatest. And I only associate myself with the best.

Hellscream9999 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

I think that's the part that stings the most, that this writer's room was touted for so long to be a turning point for the storytelling aspect and writing, but all they did was force random things they read about (headmasters, duocons, quintessa, time travel, the true nature of earth...) and cram them into this movie without doing anything beyond that to make it any good

SlyTF1 wrote: And I only associate myself with the best.

Sabrblade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

At least now I know I'm not a fan of anything. I won't blindly defend these movies just because I like them. I've shunned and condemned entire goddamn properties I once loved and adored, all because they put out something I didn't like. Marvel, Star Wars, and most recently the Mass Effect games are among those properties. I'm just hoping Transformers doesn't join the ranks.

It's... okay to like something that isn't good. That's what "guilty pleasures" are.

Sabrblade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I'm not sad, they brought this on themselves by not getting their writing in order, maybe they should hire actually talented writers next time...

I'm honestly finding it more sad that I just don't care. This franchise is literally my favorite thing on the planet, and I couldn't give a damn less that it's hurting right now. I haven't even seen the movie a second time. I watched AOE a whole 7 times in theaters, but I have no desire to see TLK again. They should have delivered on what they promised the first damn time.

At least now I know I'm not a fan of anything. I won't blindly defend these movies just because I like them. I've shunned and condemned entire goddamn properties I once loved and adored, all because they put out something I didn't like. Marvel, Star Wars, and most recently the Mass Effect games are among those properties. I'm just hoping Transformers doesn't join the ranks.

It's... okay to like something that isn't good. That's what "guilty pleasures" are.

Nope. I look at everything from an objective point of view. If I say something is "the greatest thing of all time," it has to live up to those standards, otherwise, it ceases to be the greatest. And I only associate myself with the best.

But the very notion of "the greatest thing of all time" is objectively a subjective concept in and of itself.

william-james88 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote: And I only associate myself with the best.

So what's it like being friends with the pope?

noctorro wrote:Anybody seen the Double Toasted review of The Last Knight?

That line from Corey keeps echoing in my mind.

"Not a goddamn original thought was put into this movie!!!"

That's why I haven't seen it a second and third time yet.

This movie is out of his goddamn mind. Wy 5 unoriginal out of Transformers
storylines + like 3 decent Transformers storylines in this movie?

Just focus on Nemesis Prime, Quintessa, Megatron being Megatron again.
Does Megatron have a spark? How did he become Megatron again?

SlyTF1 wrote:
Despite their hatred for these movies, I watch Double Toasted regularly. I do believe there to be original thoughts in the movie, but none of it was on the writers' parts. Every bit of originality came from Bay himself. People always claim Bay doesn't care about the franchise. He obviously cares. It's the writers who don't give a ****. Bay was the one who had to force the producers to put together a writer's room in the first place, and what did they give him? A bunch of hacks. I could have written a better script, and it the movie's budget probably would have been even lower.

Ra88 wrote:But yeah. A lot of this came out on the Don Murphy boards. He was one of the fan friendly production members (and the guy who also along with Tom DeSanto was is responsible for even convincing Paramount to do these movies). He constantly was in direct communication with TF fans, but this also put him at odds a lot with people because he had a really explosive personality.

Anyways, it was through that board and input from DM that a lot of Lorenzos antics came to light. Such as:

* Not even wanting Autobots to be in the movie.
* Changing the base attack scene from a forest to the middle eastern desert. Also removing Soundwave and Ravage and replacing them with Incinerator (who would go on to be renamed Grimlock/Vortex/Blackout) and Scorponok (which totally pissed off Don Murphy, so Lorenzo got nick named Scorponok on the boards).
* Replacing Soundwave (a humvee in this) with Barricade.
* seeing a pattern yet? Because guess who Frenzy was at first.
* The Autobots almost didn't have any personalities beyond the robotic because he felt that was dumb. And this is after the "didn't want them to speak" thing.
* Wanted Megatron to be a cannibal who got power from eating sparks. (Shares this blame with Orci and Kurtzmann though).
* Actively fought against Welker and Cullen to reprise their roles. Especially Cullen. He wanted Liam Neeson for the star power.
* Once the movie came out and was a smash hit, he took credit for a lot of it.

There's more, but I can't remember all of it right now.

Deadput wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Despite their hatred for these movies, I watch Double Toasted regularly. I do believe there to be original thoughts in the movie, but none of it was on the writers' parts. Every bit of originality came from Bay himself. People always claim Bay doesn't care about the franchise. He obviously cares. It's the writers who don't give a ****. Bay was the one who had to force the producers to put together a writer's room in the first place, and what did they give him? A bunch of hacks. I could have written a better script, and it the movie's budget probably would have been even lower.

It's not even the writers it's Lorenzo who is the absolute core of the problems of these films.

Instead of listing them myself with my poor writing skills I'll let someone else who could explain it way better then I ever could. Ra88 of the Tfw2005 boards wrote a general list of all the stuff he has done.

Ra88 wrote:But yeah. A lot of this came out on the Don Murphy boards. He was one of the fan friendly production members (and the guy who also along with Tom DeSanto was is responsible for even convincing Paramount to do these movies). He constantly was in direct communication with TF fans, but this also put him at odds a lot with people because he had a really explosive personality.

Anyways, it was through that board and input from DM that a lot of Lorenzos antics came to light. Such as:

* Not even wanting Autobots to be in the movie.
* Changing the base attack scene from a forest to the middle eastern desert. Also removing Soundwave and Ravage and replacing them with Incinerator (who would go on to be renamed Grimlock/Vortex/Blackout) and Scorponok (which totally pissed off Don Murphy, so Lorenzo got nick named Scorponok on the boards).
* Replacing Soundwave (a humvee in this) with Barricade.
* seeing a pattern yet? Because guess who Frenzy was at first.
* The Autobots almost didn't have any personalities beyond the robotic because he felt that was dumb. And this is after the "didn't want them to speak" thing.
* Wanted Megatron to be a cannibal who got power from eating sparks. (Shares this blame with Orci and Kurtzmann though).
* Actively fought against Welker and Cullen to reprise their roles. Especially Cullen. He wanted Liam Neeson for the star power.
* Once the movie came out and was a smash hit, he took credit for a lot of it.

There's more, but I can't remember all of it right now.

Also there is more to the Cullen thing Lorenzo actually went out of his way to sabotage Peter's audition for the 2007 movie by not having the guy that was meant to interact with Cullen in the audition show up at the right time luckily Peter improvised and Bay who sought Peter Cullen out brought him in but Lorenzo made Peter stick to only Optimus and not Ironhide as well.

Also this guy is the prime reason for this movie being convoluted he took two different scripts and smashed them together he is the one everyone should be angry at not Bay or the writers although their not completely innocent either.

And it doesn't matter if Bay leaves and the Transformers movies are rebooted as long as Lorenzo is involved he is going to screw things up.

SlyTF1 wrote:
I'm aware of his influence on the story, but the writers still could have found a better way to piece it all together.

Deadput wrote:Pictures like this make me wish we could have something like a prequel movie or a video game with all of them together interacting with each other like Ironhide and Hound or something like that and it doesn't even have to be anything canon.

Burn wrote:Wow, it took 10 years but people are finally acknowledging that Bay isn't solely responsible for all the problems.

Thanks for catching up at last!

Kurona wrote:I'm actually kinda glad TLK isn't doing well because this'll force them to put more effort into future movies. Until now they've had a really arrogant attitude that they can just put the same thing out and it doesn't matter; people will come and see it -- Bay's been quoted on saying "I don't care what you think, you'll still see it anyway". But now people aren't seeing it, so they actually have to put thought into these things.

Deadput wrote:

Kurona wrote:I'm actually kinda glad TLK isn't doing well because this'll force them to put more effort into future movies. Until now they've had a really arrogant attitude that they can just put the same thing out and it doesn't matter; people will come and see it -- Bay's been quoted on saying "I don't care what you think, you'll still see it anyway". But now people aren't seeing it, so they actually have to put thought into these things.

To be fair at the time he wasn't completely wrong.

Kurona wrote:He was correct, but it's still very arrogant and a really terrible attitude to have. Even if a lot of the complaints were ridiculous things like Optimus having flames or characters not looking like their G1 selves, it still shows a complete defiance of any sort of constructive criticism and a care for nothing but how much money you're going to give him. I don't wanna give money to someone like that; I wanna give it to someone who truly cares about what they're making and truly cares about giving the audience something they'll like -- if it's gonna crash and burn that's a shame, but at least lemme see you've put effort and care into it. It's a terrible attitude propagated by executive suits sitting round a boardroom table.

But now it's apparently coming back to bite 'em in the buttocks, because people aren't going to see it anyway. I just hope this means the Bumblebee movie and whatever comes after it are gonna be much better than what we currently have.

Deadput wrote:

Kurona wrote:He was correct, but it's still very arrogant and a really terrible attitude to have. Even if a lot of the complaints were ridiculous things like Optimus having flames or characters not looking like their G1 selves, it still shows a complete defiance of any sort of constructive criticism and a care for nothing but how much money you're going to give him. I don't wanna give money to someone like that; I wanna give it to someone who truly cares about what they're making and truly cares about giving the audience something they'll like -- if it's gonna crash and burn that's a shame, but at least lemme see you've put effort and care into it. It's a terrible attitude propagated by executive suits sitting round a boardroom table.

But now it's apparently coming back to bite 'em in the buttocks, because people aren't going to see it anyway. I just hope this means the Bumblebee movie and whatever comes after it are gonna be much better than what we currently have.

It's a horrible attitude yes but so are some of the fans reactions and attitude towards Bay himself so I assume he had that on his mind when he made the comment.

Not that it makes it alright or anything but people will occasionally vent or take a hostile attitude when their annoyed (cough-myself-cough)

Like I said I "assume".

Kurona wrote:

Deadput wrote:Yeah, a lot of people were rude, hostile and downright antagonistic -- I mean for Primus' sake, some of them actually sent Bay death threats. What the heck's that about? Why are we as a race like this? All he did was paint flames on a cab, for the love of...

But yes, I can understand that maybe that line was a reaction to the... less civil detractors of the movies, but it wouldn't kill him to have a bit more maturity and composure or at least pretend like he cares about giving people something they'll enjoy. It's a bit like if Hasbro responded to complaints about Trypticon's leg assembly issues with "I don't give a ****, you're still gonna buy it. Don't see why I should care."

Watch Hasbro actually do that.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Deadput wrote:Pictures like this make me wish we could have something like a prequel movie or a video game with all of them together interacting with each other like Ironhide and Hound or something like that and it doesn't even have to be anything canon.

A game like that would be great. One set in an alternate reality where all the Autobots and Decepticons are still alive, fighting it out on Earth. I still want a Transformers RPG, ######.

cruizerdave wrote:Unfortunately, I think this movie is going to make just enough money to justify another one. Spoilers, the next one will involve some type of conspiracy, some type up to now hidden thing that ties TFs to Earth's history, a bunch of yelling, characters and plot points that have almost zero to do with the central story, porny shots of women's cleavage or butts, weird and offensive racial stereotypes, Optimus acting like a maniac, slow motion shots, Megatron not really having much to do with the story, thing from previous movies being ignored or contradicted, a high caliber actor slumming it for a pay check and plenty of idiotic, juvenile frat boy humor.

kurthy wrote:I'm still going to place a lot of blame on Bay. His only concern is making it look cool.

kurthy wrote:He's never made a great movie and most of his experience is creating music videos.

Deadput wrote:

kurthy wrote:I'm still going to place a lot of blame on Bay. His only concern is making it look cool.

Like every director ever...

Why do people assume that the movie makers are going to care about the property as much as we do? Fan is short for fanatic for a reason.

kurthy wrote:He's never made a great movie and most of his experience is creating music videos.

First of all that is subjective and an opinion...not exactly a fact.

13 hours was a pretty good movie though and it came out in 2016 so he is able to make decent movies but not that many people are going to give him a chance because of his name.

kurthy wrote: 13 hours was a flop that made $2m more than its production cost. But box office flops can be good movies, although the critics ratings are lower than transformers and the user ratings are barely higher than his next movie (transformers, again) and the same on rotten tomatoes. At this point, I'm probably not going to take your recommendation to watch it.

Deadput wrote:just because it didn't do well in the theater doesn't change a thing

Deadput wrote:

kurthy wrote: 13 hours was a flop that made $2m more than its production cost. But box office flops can be good movies, although the critics ratings are lower than transformers and the user ratings are barely higher than his next movie (transformers, again) and the same on rotten tomatoes. At this point, I'm probably not going to take your recommendation to watch it.

It's still a good movie and just because it didn't do well in the theater doesn't change a thing also people adore the original 1986 movie and look how well that movie did.


Rotten tomatoes is a cancerous website for wannabe reviewers, spammers and bots.

Va'al wrote:ROTTEN TOMATOES GATHERS TOGETHER CRITICAL VIEWS FROM ACROSS THE INTERNET