Transformers Robots in Disguise Titan Heroes Autobot Drift and Grimlock Revealed
Sunday, August 23rd, 2015 10:30PM CDT
Category: Toy NewsPosted by: william-james88 Views: 19,656
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Here are their descriptions from the Kmart website (where they are not currently available):
Gear up for big and tall Transformers action with this Autobot Drift figure! This mighty Autobot Drift warrior stands 12 inches tall and he's got the power to pound any enemy into scrap. Scanning his badge unlocks his character in the Transformers Robots in Disguise app! (Device not included.) Whether the combat is real or virtual, he's just the fighter for the wildest Transformers adventures!
Transformers and all related characters are trademarks of Hasbro.
• Autobot Drift Transformers figure stands 12 inches tall
• Collect them all (each sold separately)
• Scan the figure’s badge to unlock the character in the Transformers Robots in Disguise app (device not included)
Gear up for big and tall Transformers action with this Grimlock figure! This mighty Grimlock warrior stands 12 inches tall and he's got the power to stomp any enemy into dust. Scanning his badge unlocks his character in the Transformers Robots in Disguise app! (Device not included.) Whether they combat is real or virtual, he's just the fighter for the wildest Transformers adventures!
• Grimlock Transformers figure stands 12 inches tall
• Collect them all (each sold separately)
• Scan the figure’s badge to unlock the character in the Transformers Robots in Disguise app (device not included)
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Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 23rd, 2015 @ 10:32pm CDT
Cobotron wrote:Here's a positive spin. I would gladly let my kid take these out to the sand box, that way the real transforming guys wouldn't get all messed up.
I never thought about that. That is actually very brilliant! Sandbox transformers!
Posted by william-james88 on August 23rd, 2015 @ 10:32pm CDT
Cobotron wrote:Maybe since Drift got the deployer treatmeant, the didn't want to flood the shelves with orange Drifts. So there would be some variety. I dunno.
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-robots-in-disguise-titan-heroes-autobot-drift-and-grimlock-revealed/33749/
What was that about not wanting too much orange?
Rated X wrote:Because silly themed repaints dont make money...especially kiddie simplified molds. The shelves are warm enough already. They dont need insulation too.
Well then you will be happy to see that none of the two newly revealed titan hero toys are repaints
Posted by Cobotron on August 23rd, 2015 @ 10:38pm CDT
D-Maximus_Prime wrote:Cobotron wrote:Here's a positive spin. I would gladly let my kid take these out to the sand box, that way the real transforming guys wouldn't get all messed up.
I never thought about that. That is actually very brilliant! Sandbox transformers!
That's IT! CALL HASBRO MARKETING!!!
william-james88 wrote:What was that about not wanting too much orange?
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 23rd, 2015 @ 10:48pm CDT
Cobotron wrote:D-Maximus_Prime wrote:Cobotron wrote:Here's a positive spin. I would gladly let my kid take these out to the sand box, that way the real transforming guys wouldn't get all messed up.
I never thought about that. That is actually very brilliant! Sandbox transformers!
That's IT! CALL HASBRO MARKETING!!!william-james88 wrote:What was that about not wanting too much orange?
Someone must not have heard that orange is the new black
Posted by BERSEKAEL on August 23rd, 2015 @ 10:49pm CDT
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 23rd, 2015 @ 10:57pm CDT
BERSEKAEL wrote:...and more stuff for clearance
Dude, I've seen these warm clearance shelves
(talk about screw-ups )
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 23rd, 2015 @ 11:09pm CDT
Hellscream9999 wrote:BERSEKAEL wrote:...and more stuff for clearance
Dude, I've seen these warm clearance shelves
(talk about screw-ups )
Clearance shelves get cold too....
Posted by Zeedust on August 23rd, 2015 @ 11:23pm CDT
Rated X wrote:Cant they use the money instead to make one Decepticon that isn't part of 1 3 step, 5 step, or shampoo bottle kiddie line ?
Logical fallacies in your argument aside...
I'd settle for a few more that ARE 1/3/5-steps! Or Legion! Aside from the Mini-Cons, there are a grand total of FIVE Decepticons getting toys in this line. And only two of them, Steeljaw and Thunderhoof, have the "metal furry" look that makes the RiD 2015 Decepticons different (Megatronus and Fracture are normal robots, and Underbite has a beast mode instead of a robot mode like Sky Lynx or the G1 Cassettes did). There are so many interesting designs and we're getting nothing for any of them. I want a Springload, damn it.
Posted by skidflap on August 24th, 2015 @ 1:35am CDT
Nemesis Primal wrote:Rated X wrote:Cant they use the money instead to make one Decepticon that isn't part of 1 3 step, 5 step, or shampoo bottle kiddie line ?
Logical fallacies in your argument aside...
I'd settle for a few more that ARE 1/3/5-steps! Or Legion! Aside from the Mini-Cons, there are a grand total of FIVE Decepticons getting toys in this line. And only two of them, Steeljaw and Thunderhoof, have the "metal furry" look that makes the RiD 2015 Decepticons different (Megatronus and Fracture are normal robots, and Underbite has a beast mode instead of a robot mode like Sky Lynx or the G1 Cassettes did). There are so many interesting designs and we're getting nothing for any of them. I want a Springload, damn it.
there was a listing a while back that there will be a one step springload.
Posted by Optimum Supreme on August 24th, 2015 @ 2:18am CDT
Posted by Zeedust on August 24th, 2015 @ 4:49am CDT
skidflap wrote:Nemesis Primal wrote:Rated X wrote:Cant they use the money instead to make one Decepticon that isn't part of 1 3 step, 5 step, or shampoo bottle kiddie line ?
Logical fallacies in your argument aside...
I'd settle for a few more that ARE 1/3/5-steps! Or Legion! Aside from the Mini-Cons, there are a grand total of FIVE Decepticons getting toys in this line. And only two of them, Steeljaw and Thunderhoof, have the "metal furry" look that makes the RiD 2015 Decepticons different (Megatronus and Fracture are normal robots, and Underbite has a beast mode instead of a robot mode like Sky Lynx or the G1 Cassettes did). There are so many interesting designs and we're getting nothing for any of them. I want a Springload, damn it.
there was a listing a while back that there will be a one step springload.
I hope that actually comes through.
I wouldn't mind a Terrashock either, or a Ped for that matter. Or most of them, really...
Perhaps even a Scowl, though admittedly he's not really in the "metal furry" category.
Posted by Unicron Magnus on August 24th, 2015 @ 11:08am CDT
Posted by RAR on August 24th, 2015 @ 11:30am CDT
Perhaps those ones should be prioritised along with ones who feature in more than one episode.
If that already covers the ones we have had so far then it's time to broaden it out - I can't say what's best though as I've have not seen the show enough to know who is who in that regard.
Posted by no-one on August 24th, 2015 @ 12:14pm CDT
Ultra Magnus and Patrol Mode Strongarm.
Keep your optics peeled if these are on your want list.
Posted by glorbes on August 24th, 2015 @ 12:25pm CDT
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 24th, 2015 @ 1:14pm CDT
glorbes wrote:If I was a kid, I'd use that Drift as a stand-in for Unicron. That's...the best I can come up with with regard to praise.
It's okay, you don't have to praise this junk
Posted by william-james88 on August 24th, 2015 @ 1:47pm CDT
Carytheone wrote:Spotted RID Legion Ultra Magnus at Target in Baton Rouge, LA for $5.99
Spotted Patrol Mode Strongarm at another Target. She was probably at the other Target, but I didn't know this deco was a thing.
Target in Slidell, La for $5.99
ScottyP wrote:RiD Legion Patrol Mode Strongarm and Night Ops Bumblebee at Target in Wake Forest, NC. Implies that Alpine Strike Sideswipe is also out, but wasn't here.
Posted by william-james88 on August 24th, 2015 @ 1:52pm CDT
RAR wrote:Which Decepticons got Earth Modes - Not very many ?
Perhaps those ones should be prioritised along with ones who feature in more than one episode.
If that already covers the ones we have had so far then it's time to broaden it out - I can't say what's best though as I've have not seen the show enough to know who is who in that regard.
Technically, isnt the only decepticon with an Earth mode One Step Fracture? Because there is no indication that any decepticon scanned an earth vehicle once they escaped. I mean fixit has them all in his computer from the time they were on his ship and they look the same as we see them when they are on earth. So technically none of them on the show have earth modes.
Posted by ScottyP on August 24th, 2015 @ 2:26pm CDT
It also looked like the Target I was at today had skipped Wave 5 of the one-steps (which has the new Gold Armor Grimlock and Patrol Mode Strongarm) and went straight to Wave 6 which is all repacks of various Wave 1-4 things.
Posted by Madeus Prime on August 24th, 2015 @ 8:20pm CDT
Posted by Zeedust on August 24th, 2015 @ 9:19pm CDT
RAR wrote:Which Decepticons got Earth Modes - Not very many ?
Perhaps those ones should be prioritised along with ones who feature in more than one episode.
If that already covers the ones we have had so far then it's time to broaden it out - I can't say what's best though as I've have not seen the show enough to know who is who in that regard.
How about prioritizing the ones who are show in more than one mode _at all_? Some of them, infuriatingly, din't even get that.
I remember during Beast Wars the number of Maximals and Predacons released was basically even. What happened since then to convince Hasbro to skimp on the bad guys?
Posted by Cobotron on August 24th, 2015 @ 9:25pm CDT
Posted by Noideaforaname on August 24th, 2015 @ 10:12pm CDT
Cobotron wrote:Sales reports.
This line does seem to be rather blatantly sales-driven, doesn't it? Not that it ever wasn't all about sales, but looking back at previous lines we've gone from rotating the entire cast (G1), upgrading characters with entirely different toys (Beast Wars), selling the main character a billions times over but still attempting some form of diversity (Movie/Prime), to now just selling the main characters a billions times over and to hell with diversity.
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 24th, 2015 @ 10:17pm CDT
Noideaforaname wrote:Ah, those Targets have gotten rid of the color-coded toy sections too, I see.Cobotron wrote:Sales reports.
This line does seem to be rather blatantly sales-driven, doesn't it? Not that it ever wasn't all about sales, but looking back at previous lines we've gone from rotating the entire cast (G1), upgrading characters with entirely different toys (Beast Wars), selling the main character a billions times over but still attempting some form of diversity (Movie/Bumblebee), to now just selling the main characters a billions times over and to hell with diversity.
Yeah, I've thought all along that this entire line screams of corporate interference. From the easy brick $hits to the non-existent diversity, this line is quickly becoming the pile of trash I figured it would if things didn't change
Posted by Cobotron on August 24th, 2015 @ 10:30pm CDT
Posted by william-james88 on August 24th, 2015 @ 10:52pm CDT
Cobotron wrote:I was wondering if allocating funds to the new Star Wars has any baring? Cut here, so we can spend there.
"And you better tell those dudes in Japan to remember that damn parts count for Devastator!"
What I dont like about this though is that now there will be no indication that Cons sell. Because there arent enough anymore to base those numbers on. If these autobots are all parents can buy, then that is what they will buy and then hasbro will say "hey, it works". And it will be an infernal cycle.
Although this is nothing new to toylines. Look at all those Batman toylines where you get batman in 10 different suits and one joker figure. I do get why though and I have seen it first hand: nobody wants to give a villain as a gift.
I remember looking for toys once and an old lady was looking at Spider-man toys. She then asked me for help since she didnt know what to get. She knew her grandson liked spider-man but he already had a spider-man toy and she was lost. She didnt want to give him a villain alone either. So I told her to get vs pack so that her grandson could get some variety. I did mess up once though when I was in grade school and assumed a kid already had a spidey and got him a venom toy for his birthday. Only to realize later that he didnt have a spider-man toy (what kind of childhood is that?!)
Optimus and Bumblebee are now so recognisable that if a relative is shopping with the idea of transformers in mind, those are the two they will be looking for. I did like how the 4th film tried to make Grimlock as prevalent, for the sake of some variety, at least in the general public's idea of the brand.
Posted by Sabrblade on August 24th, 2015 @ 11:57pm CDT
ThunderhoofRAR wrote:Which Decepticons got Earth Modes - Not very many ?
Clampdown
Fracture
Springload
Ped
Quillfire
While he hasn't transformed in the show, Malodor's altmode kibble looks particularly Earthen
Vertebreak turns into a subway train, but I can't find a decent screengrab of it.
Groundpounder
Headlock
Razorpaw
Spinhead
Transit
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:02am CDT
Sabrblade wrote:RAR wrote:Which Decepticons got Earth Modes - Not very many ?
Clampdown
Wait, you mean to tell me cybertron hasn't caught on to the incredibly stylish wood-paneling for their alt modes
Posted by william-james88 on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:05am CDT
Posted by Sabrblade on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:07am CDT
Animation cost-cutting measures?william-james88 wrote:If those are earth modes then why do they look that way on Fixit's records in the Alchemor?
Posted by william-james88 on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:30am CDT
Sabrblade wrote:Animation cost-cutting measures?william-james88 wrote:If those are earth modes then why do they look that way on Fixit's records in the Alchemor?
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:32am CDT
Sabrblade wrote:Animation cost-cutting measures?william-james88 wrote:If those are earth modes then why do they look that way on Fixit's records in the Alchemor?
That's probably close, they (hasbro, probably) probably didn't prepare for fiction-creating by giving the 's pre-earth modes; so in the absence of any reference, and maybe not knowing what to do for them (or not being allowed to create random modes), the studio just slips the earth modes in, and hopes that nobody questions it too much.
Posted by SW's SilverHammer on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:35am CDT
Hellscream9999 wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Animation cost-cutting measures?william-james88 wrote:If those are earth modes then why do they look that way on Fixit's records in the Alchemor?
That's probably close, they (hasbro, probably) probably didn't prepare for fiction-creating by giving the 's pre-earth modes; so in the absence of any reference, and maybe not knowing what to do for them (or not being allowed to create random modes), the studio just slips the earth modes in, and hopes that nobody questions it too much.
No it's just a cost cutting measure. It was done on Beast wars, it was done on Prime, it's being done here.
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 25th, 2015 @ 12:56am CDT
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Hellscream9999 wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Animation cost-cutting measures?william-james88 wrote:If those are earth modes then why do they look that way on Fixit's records in the Alchemor?
That's probably close, they (hasbro, probably) probably didn't prepare for fiction-creating by giving the 's pre-earth modes; so in the absence of any reference, and maybe not knowing what to do for them (or not being allowed to create random modes), the studio just slips the earth modes in, and hopes that nobody questions it too much.
No it's just a cost cutting measure. It was done on Beast wars, it was done on Prime, it's being done here.
Fair enough, I don't actually know, I was just using logic to create a rational answer; I don't actually care, it gave me a laugh, so that's good enough.
Posted by Noideaforaname on August 25th, 2015 @ 8:04am CDT
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 25th, 2015 @ 9:28am CDT
Posted by no-one on August 25th, 2015 @ 10:02am CDT
D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'll give them this: There are some great alt modes for cons in this show
I like how their bot mode is really more like a beast mode and then they turn into vehicles. I would love so see some more 'cons turned into plastic warrior class.
Considering how little face time most of them got, I understand why we're not seeing most of them.
I know it would be an amazing feat of engineering, but I'd love to see the one that is made out of a bunch of spider minicons. I'll settle for Steeljaw's crew though.
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 25th, 2015 @ 2:27pm CDT
carytheone wrote:D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'll give them this: There are some great alt modes for cons in this show
I like how their bot mode is really more like a beast mode and then they turn into vehicles. I would love so see some more 'cons turned into plastic warrior class.
Considering how little face time most of them got, I understand why we're not seeing most of them.
I know it would be an amazing feat of engineering, but I'd love to see the one that is made out of a bunch of spider minicons. I'll settle for Steeljaw's crew though.
Yes. Thunderhoof, Fracture and others are worthy of good warrior toys. Needs to happen
Posted by Rated X on August 26th, 2015 @ 7:14am CDT
Posted by ScottyP on August 26th, 2015 @ 9:07am CDT
Yes, I agreeD-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'll give them this: There are some great alt modes for cons in this show
Really though, the alt modes are a huge draw for me on this toyline (I just can't get into the show. Tried a few times now.) Very sleek and stylized in a good way.
Posted by Cobotron on August 26th, 2015 @ 9:52am CDT
Glad the aesthetic keeps you hooked. Do like the bot mode designs too, Mr. P?ScottyP wrote:Yes, I agreeD-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'll give them this: There are some great alt modes for cons in this show
Really though, the alt modes are a huge draw for me on this toyline (I just can't get into the show. Tried a few times now.) Very sleek and stylized in a good way.
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 26th, 2015 @ 11:43am CDT
Cobotron wrote:Glad the aesthetic keeps you hooked. Do like the bot mode designs too, Mr. P?ScottyP wrote:Yes, I agreeD-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'll give them this: There are some great alt modes for cons in this show
Really though, the alt modes are a huge draw for me on this toyline (I just can't get into the show. Tried a few times now.) Very sleek and stylized in a good way.
OK agreed strongly. The alt modes are very good for this show! The bots modes a pretty cool too. I really like the style.
Posted by RAR on August 26th, 2015 @ 1:16pm CDT
Sabrblade wrote:
Thunderhoof
Clampdown
Fracture
Springload
Ped
Quillfire
Malodor
Vertebreak
Groundpounder
Headlock
Razorpaw
Spinhead
Transit
Thanks for taking the time to do that, it was very interesting and helpful.
It does make me think that some of them would make super nice Voyager toys if they decide to make something that size that isn't a 3 step - Thunderhoof especially. Though I guess the 3-step might be adequate in some ways.
I am wondering did they just use left over Bulkhead CGI Mesh, or is there some plan to put Bulkhead in the show as a Guest (I notice he was on the cover of a comic already).
Sorry if he's been on already as I said before I'm way behind on this show so I'm only now playing catch up on information.
----
I think that New large Adventures Optimus Mould would make a great Ultra Magnus especially with a new head. It would complement the previous Weaponizer remould rather well.
Is Magnus on the show yet - as I notice he's name dropped by the sound chip on the new Adventure's Optimus toy and he just got a Legion toy?.
If someone want's to educate me they can tell me who has guested on the show that isn't a Escaped Decepticon.
Posted by no-one on August 26th, 2015 @ 1:27pm CDT
I wanna say that Tak is making at least one voayger. A retool of FoC Grimlock into who else but Grimlock. I would also love to see some voyager class figures for this line. I think the 3 steps work size wise though.
Posted by RAR on August 26th, 2015 @ 2:59pm CDT
I think Arcee's Voice artist tweeted she was going to be on the show and I heard something about Bulkhead too.
Also Predacon's Rising left us with Ratchet looking after an injured Magnus so - has that even been addressed yet ?
I know the link to Prime is mild at best But Bee does mention thing like having fought Megatron and now he has to do whatever silly thing he's doing at that time etc... (doesn't he).
I did hear that some were complaining that the Prime related stuff at the end of the season was all very Prime related and a bit out of the blue for people who hadn't seen the previous show... so I do wonder what people think the wee kiddies would have made of that Megatronus stuff etc...
Speaking of which is that Megatron with another name or the actual old school Megatronus ? (in which case why isn't he The Fallen) they were the same individual weren't they ?
#confused
Posted by no-one on August 26th, 2015 @ 3:21pm CDT
RAR wrote:I mean Autobots too like Wingblade for example.
I think Arcee's Voice artist tweeted she was going to be on the show and I heard something about Bulkhead too.
Also Predacon's Rising left us with Ratchet looking after an injured Magnus so - has that even been addressed yet ?
I know the link to Prime is mild at best But Bee does mention thing like having fought Megatron and now he has to do whatever silly thing he's doing at that time etc... (doesn't he).
I did hear that some were complaining that the Prime related stuff at the end of the season was all very Prime related and a bit out of the blue for people who hadn't seen the previous show... so I do wonder what people think the wee kiddies would have made of that Megatronus stuff etc...
Speaking of which is that Megatron with another name or the actual old school Megatronus ? (in which case why isn't he The Fallen) they were the same individual weren't they ?
#confused
I'm going point ya over here to not veer us to far off course and also to keep from getting to spoilery.
idw-transformers-robots-in-disguise-animated-discussion-thread-t102593.php
Windblade and Jazz make guest appearances.
My understanding is that RID15 happens after the Prime series. From what I've heard some of the Prime characters show up. Maybe just in the comics though. I've completed season one via the internet. I don't think all the shows have aired in the US yet.
Megatronus is not Megatron.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: let me add a link that may be better
the-official-transformers-robots-in-disguise-animated-series-thread-t100652.php
Posted by Hellscream9999 on August 26th, 2015 @ 3:41pm CDT
carytheone wrote:RAR wrote:I mean Autobots too like Wingblade for example.
I think Arcee's Voice artist tweeted she was going to be on the show and I heard something about Bulkhead too.
Also Predacon's Rising left us with Ratchet looking after an injured Magnus so - has that even been addressed yet ?
I know the link to Prime is mild at best But Bee does mention thing like having fought Megatron and now he has to do whatever silly thing he's doing at that time etc... (doesn't he).
I did hear that some were complaining that the Prime related stuff at the end of the season was all very Prime related and a bit out of the blue for people who hadn't seen the previous show... so I do wonder what people think the wee kiddies would have made of that Megatronus stuff etc...
Speaking of which is that Megatron with another name or the actual old school Megatronus ? (in which case why isn't he The Fallen) they were the same individual weren't they ?
#confused
I'm going point ya over here to not veer us to far off course and also to keep from getting to spoilery.
idw-transformers-robots-in-disguise-animated-discussion-thread-t102593.php
Windblade and Jazz make guest appearances.
My understanding is that RID15 happens after the Prime series. From what I've heard some of the Prime characters show up. Maybe just in the comics though. I've completed season one via the internet. I don't think all the shows have aired in the US yet.
Megatronus is not Megatron.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: let me add a link that may be better
the-official-transformers-robots-in-disguise-animated-series-thread-t100652.php
I dunno, maybe my avatar gives you a hint, but I just cannot take this Megatronus seriously. Just the style of the face, with the doofy over-sized crest (a problem Unicron-megatron had in the movie), it was cool as a helmet, but it just doesn't make him look all that menacing. Add to that that he suffers bad-guy-syndrome (is completely ineffectual at killing his enemies/living up to the supposed hype) and I lose any and all respect/fear I might have had for the guy.
He is certainly nowhere near as frightening and imposing as War Within Fallen, now he left a permanent impression on me in my youth; this one, will definitely be forgotten
Posted by RAR on August 26th, 2015 @ 4:00pm CDT
The one who looked like Predaking - might have been Thunderwing - If they had thought to put him in the show - he could have a reused Predaking's Mesh and also give Hasbro an excuse to make a repaint toy too.
I still find I type Windblade sometimes and Wingblade other times - boy that names really will just not stick right in my mind.
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 26th, 2015 @ 6:51pm CDT
carytheone wrote:Hey RAR, fracture is the only Con that I'm aware that isn't an escapee.
I wanna say that Tak is making at least one voayger. A retool of FoC Grimlock into who else but Grimlock. I would also love to see some voyager class figures for this line. I think the 3 steps work size wise though.
Fracture (and minicons) and Megatronus were the only non-escapees in the show to date. All the others were prisoners. Voyagers would be nice but I think they are cool with the warriors and the ones designated by steps to transform
Posted by DedicatedGhostArt on August 26th, 2015 @ 7:09pm CDT
D-Maximus_Prime wrote:carytheone wrote:Hey RAR, fracture is the only Con that I'm aware that isn't an escapee.
I wanna say that Tak is making at least one voayger. A retool of FoC Grimlock into who else but Grimlock. I would also love to see some voyager class figures for this line. I think the 3 steps work size wise though.
Fracture (and minicons) and Megatronus were the only non-escapees in the show to date. All the others were prisoners. Voyagers would be nice but I think they are cool with the warriors and the ones designated by steps to transform
Idk to me, voyagers are a very important class, maybe even more important to me than deluxe/warrior class. I don't know why they kicked voyagers out of RID, cuz TF Prime had voyagers.