Transformers Last Stand of the Wreckers #4- Spoiler Filled Review!

I'm not disappointed by the reveal of what Aequitas is, at least, as I knew from the clues presented and the type of story we were getting that what most people were hoping/guessing wasn't likely to happen. This just isn't a story for the obvious.

Still, I did note on another forum that I thought they were taking a big risk with that sort of "big deal" buildup plotline, as it's hard as hell to pull them off effectively. Seeing as how the MacGuffin hints you mention worry me, as the new question about Aequitas is "Why is it so important?".

Not disappointed by Pyro, either, as that's where his own clues led. It was just a matter of when and how. I like how every newbie Wrecker has their dark bit/Achilles' Heel... Rotorstorm's probably lucky he got to exit the stage before his was thrown into play.

I so love where Ironfist's bit seems to be going in the previews. I'm pleased to hear that you're saying it's psychological and dramatic, too. I love a good Psychological Nightmare Fuel scifi story, especially since they're not all that common in TF.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Is this comic series guilty of fanwank?

I take issue with the description of this series as "fanwank." While it is true that this series might be guilty of overly fanwankery, it's also a lot of other things: engaging, fun, not guilty of treating the intelligence of the reader like that of a twelve year old, not looking for all the world like it was written by a twelve year old, and most important, treating with respect what came before.

In other words, everything the other two major titles of the G1 brand (Bumblebee and the ongoing), have not been.

So I say, let people call it fanwank. Personally, if it leads to stuff like this, I'm all for the fan being wanked. (And wow, that SO did not come out the way I meant it to... )

Darth Bombshell wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:Is this comic series guilty of fanwank?

I take issue with the description of this series as "fanwank." While it is true that this series might be guilty of overly fanwankery, it's also a lot of other things: engaging, fun, not guilty of treating the intelligence of the reader like that of a twelve year old, not looking for all the world like it was written by a twelve year old, and most important, treating with respect what came before.

In other words, everything the other two major titles of the G1 brand (Bumblebee and the ongoing), have not been.

So I say, let people call it fanwank. Personally, if it leads to stuff like this, I'm all for the fan being wanked. (And wow, that SO did not come out the way I meant it to... )

Just so you know, I agree, I love it, but it has been discussed that there is fanwankery about with this series.

I personally just enjoy it. I try not to read too much into the whole thing.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Just so you know, I agree, I love it, but it has been discussed that there is fanwankery about with this series.

I personally just enjoy it. I try not to read too much into the whole thing.

Well, when you get right down to it, yes, this series is guilty of fanwankery. There's really no getting around it. On the other hand, it's written by two people who are fans, so that means that they can get away with it, because you know there not doing it just to have something there so someone can point out "Hey, that's a reference to so-and-so."

I have to admit I don't see what's so fanwanky about the series myself.

Yeah, there's references here and there, but, um, most stories like to put in easter eggs, and these stories don't revolve around them. (Heck, I don't even recognize most of them unless they get pointed out to me. Plus I'd point out that Megatron Origins had a lot of fanwanky refs, and look how well that one went over.)

Meanwhile, there's nothing fanwanky about the plot itself that I can pinpoint. Just a lot of solid, good writing.

I believe fanwank may in fact be an understatement; what it really is may in fact get me banned from the site so i won't say it, but it involves prostitutes. I much prefer the new G1 take. It's more original, and is going places the original series didn't. And that is EXACTLY why most of you don't like it; it's not Simon Furman, it's not old school Marvel, it's not a regugitation of Transformers lore from the 80's. It's something new and fun and completely and utterly different.

That being said, I am enjoy the Wreckers series as well. As different as the ongoing series is, the Wreckers series is more "same ol same ol". And that's why it's so popular with the fanboys.

First-Aid wrote:I much prefer the new G1 take. It's more original, and is going places the original series didn't.

Er... I think you have this a bit backwards.

The -ations were original. The story and characters all went in a lot of creative and unique directions that hadn't been done in the G1 stories I'm familiar with, at least, and it felt like it was really building to something interesting.

And then AHM basically threw out everything that was new and unique to retread several old cliches and turn everyone from their previous reinvented selves into more Sunbow-ish versions of themselves, as well as throwing out the more little-used characters in favor of the '84 crowd that always seems to get the spotlight.

The ongoing is somewhat better, but it still carries on the cliche characterization, as well as making several characters act like idiots on top of it. Further, it's gone from the previous interesting grey back to the "bleeding heart good guys and bad guys who stab each other in the back even when it's not in their best interest" type of characterization. We also go from an interesting treatment of humans not being important to the same "humans are special" attitude.

Personally, I wish the new G1 take actually was original, as it would soften the sting of losing the unique take the series started out with. There was a real step for AHM to do something new and interesting... but instead we have the Decepticons going around doing random damage on Earth and the Autobots moping around uselessly.

And then there was a real step for the ongoing to do something different with the Swindle & Hot Rod setup... but nope, the sudden and inevitable betrayal occurs and we're instead back to the same status quo instead of forging something actually new.

First-Aid wrote:And that is EXACTLY why most of you don't like it; it's not Simon Furman, it's not old school Marvel, it's not a regugitation of Transformers lore from the 80's.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I came in with the movies, so I didn't know Furman from a hole in the wall until I read the -ations, and later the Marvel stuff.

I liked the -ations because it was good and interesting reading, I disliked AHM because it was cliche and poorly written, and I'm just sort of meh on the ongoing because it's just boringly uncreative. With the post-AHM stuff, I can't help but feel like it keeps reminding me of the old Sunbow and Marvel storylines, rather than doing anything new.

First-Aid wrote:That being said, I am enjoy the Wreckers series as well. As different as the ongoing series is, the Wreckers series is more "same ol same ol". And that's why it's so popular with the fanboys.

Again, I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I love Wreckers is because so far it's just so damn well-written.

We have characters with rich and interesting development and snappy dialogue (dialogue in particular being something none of IDW's other writers--including Furman--has gotten all that right, IMHO). We have exposition handled expertly. We have a layered story with a ridiculous amount of meticulously placed details that I keep discovering when I go back and read the older issues after a new issue comes out, or when people point out to me little things and connections I had missed. We have action and suspense that have been greatly missing from the rest of IDW's works lately. We have some great psychological horror fuel that also doesn't often show up in TF fiction as of late.

There's also a lot of interesting ideas going on here. This is pretty much the sort of scifi story I've been wanting to see ever since I discovered TF, and one of the few occasions said scifi stories actually have been delivered in TF fiction.

Fanwank pretty much just doesn't enter into it for me.

Meanwhile, there's SL: Prowl. The setup of AHM #15 was a chance to do something new and interesting with Prowl and his manipulative strategic plans, and a lot of interesting political intrigue and moral questions... but instead the review makes it sound an awful lot like we're instead getting the same old of Prowl becoming just another typical bleeding-heart sort of Autobot.

Jeysie, please read for yourself and let me know what you think about Prowl after you are done.

While I like a lot fo my Autobots to be 'bleeding hearts' to a degree, I don't think they all have to spill over with emotions every second. I just want them to be what they are...better than the Decepticons at being moral and in their choice making. There will certainly be levels of morality within their ranks, and levels of emotion.

I don't want Prowl to turn into Bumblebee. I want him to be Prowl. But I do want him to understand why he is an Autobot and not a Decepticon. And that line is drawn not only by the badge you wear, but by the choices you make.

I DO NOT feel that LSOTW is fanwank. I just heard it thrown around, and though I would focus on it as a way of reviewing this issue.

The fact that it is using super-obscure characters (mostly) with no previous fiction (or not much) in their past, to me makes it less fanwankish.

Sure I think there are easter eggs, which is what I prefer to call them. But in no way is it like Dreamwave did with a lot of their G1... Here's Seibertron's website name in the name of a bar in Iacon, here's a heat sensitive badge, look on the computer- it's Unicron. Look at those guys driving around the city- hey is that the A-Team's van?

I don't know if any of you ever read Top Ten, but that to me had a lot of Fanwank drawn in the background, and some in the story. And yet I still loved the series.

Top Ten to me has a bunch of fanwank, but is still a great book!

tigertracks 24 wrote:Jeysie, please read for yourself and let me know what you think about Prowl after you are done.

I'm going to... but honestly, based on your misconception in your replies of logic vs. emotion regards being good/evil, I'm not holding out much hope for it being the type of story I'd been hoping to get as opposed to the one I was afraid we'd get.

tigertracks 24 wrote:But I do want him to understand why he is an Autobot and not a Decepticon. And that line is drawn not only by the badge you wear, but by the choices you make.

Prowl is and always has been an Autobot. I covered this more in detail in the other thread, but basically your mistake is thinking you have to be a pure paladin-type who never compromises in order to be a true good guy. Life isn't that black and white, and good adult fiction shouldn't be either, IMHO.

Plus, honestly, that sort of black and whiteness just bad from a storytelling perspective too. There was a lot of good storytelling potential from the progress and fallout you'd get if AHM #15's storyhooks were continued and developed. There's boo all for interesting storytelling if Prowl's just the same old usual goodie-goodie Autobot-type with everything from AHM #15 simply dropped. I'm almost sorry we got that story, not because it's not awesome, but because I knew IDW's other writers likely wouldn't be able to live up to it.

Jeysie wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:Jeysie, please read for yourself and let me know what you think about Prowl after you are done.

I'm going to... but honestly, based on your misconception in your replies of logic vs. emotion regards being good/evil, I'm not holding out much hope for it being the type of story I'd been hoping to get as opposed to the one I was afraid we'd get.

tigertracks 24 wrote:But I do want him to understand why he is an Autobot and not a Decepticon. And that line is drawn not only by the badge you wear, but by the choices you make.

Prowl is and always has been an Autobot. I covered this more in detail in the other thread, but basically your mistake is thinking you have to be a pure paladin-type who never compromises in order to be a true good guy. Life isn't that black and white, and good adult fiction shouldn't be either, IMHO.

Plus, honestly, that sort of black and whiteness just bad from a storytelling perspective too. There was a lot of good storytelling potential from the progress and fallout you'd get if AHM #15's storyhooks were continued and developed. There's boo all for interesting storytelling if Prowl's just the same old usual goodie-goodie Autobot-type with everything from AHM #15 simply dropped. I'm almost sorry we got that story, not because it's not awesome, but because I knew IDW's other writers likely wouldn't be able to live up to it.

Please understand, my 'misconceoptions' are just meanderings. I'm not a writer, and Transformers or TF lore is not my paid profession. I'm 35, and I think about a lot more things than just Prowl's character and IDW's story writing abilities. I'm not employed by IDW, I am on Seibertron staff, and offered because I read and enjoy the comics and cartoons so much that I offered to do take the time to do this to share with the community.

So while you want a character for adult fiction (write some, or if you already have, share it), I am linking Prowl more to my childhood/cartoon version of him in which yes, good guys are making choices for the greater good, no matter what their personality is. If they aren't, they are bad guys, right.

While you may think that kind of character is bad for storytelling others may not.

Everyone has qualities that are important to them. These qualities can be qualities that a good or bad person has. Dealing with your beliefs, these qualities can inhibit or positively add to your goals...

I'm just trying to enjoy some Transformers. I'm not trying to over-analyze the professionals who create material.

I enjoy reading it. Could they possibly do more to make it more enjoyable? Sure. Do I like missing plot points never getting resolved? No. Do I enjoy reboot after reboot after reboot? NO.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Please understand, my 'misconceoptions' are just meanderings. I'm not a writer, and Transformers or TF lore is not my paid profession.

That's not what I was trying to imply.

I more meant that, since we seem to have very different views on what we wanted to see done with Prowl's character and which storytelling angles we like, the fact that you like what they did with him makes me feel I probably won't.

Although now I'm confused, because...

tigertracks 24 wrote:So while you want a character for adult fiction (write some, or if you already have, share it), I am linking Prowl more to my childhood/cartoon version of him in which yes, good guys are making choices for the greater good, no matter what their personality is. If they aren't, they are bad guys, right.

...because I agree that good guys should make choices for the greater good. And Prowl is and always has been that guy in IDW up until Costa changed him--even in AHM #15 (maybe especially in AHM #15).

And that's what I like about Prowl; that he's always looking ahead to the big picture without letting emotions or sentimentality get in the way, whereas other Autobots tend to impulsively do what's feel-good in the short-term but damaging to the greater good in the long term.

So, if we both actually have the same idea of what's good/bad, now I totally don't understand any of your comments about the character needing to learn to become more Autobot or whichever.

(And, uh... I want to read adult fiction, so writing it myself would be kind of pointless. Plus, you misunderstood me--it's less a statement of wanting adult fiction and more pointing out that that's what IDW is writing. IDW is obviously trying for adult fiction in tone, so I simply expect the writing quality to match.)

This may contain spoilers...

It may be a "fanwank". Or it may just be a story from someone who grew up with a bunch of the (awesome) UK TF bit-characters and wondered (like I used to) about what their backstories were. Fang, Macabre, Rack-n-Ruin, Ferak, Impactor... I remember these guys. In fact, I know these guys better than the other "never-been-in-a-comic-before-I-was-only-a-toy-release" characters (I never had a lot of the toys growing up).

The reveal was good. I hadn't built it up in my head so I was wasn't let down at all. I was actually disturbed by Twin Twist's torture and demise. I'm interested to see what will happen to Ironfist now that his head contains Aequitas and he blacks out all the time... maybe it will become sentient and take over his body when he blacks out?

I'm really not liking Perceptor.

If they blow up all the chips in the ex-prisoners' heads then doesn't that mean that Grimlock's head will explode too (wherever he is)? Maybe it will and that will make him stupid...

I can't wait for the conclusion! Awesome!

I may have missed the explanation, but why does the all-powerful judging computer, which holds sway over the entire Justice system on a planet require an Autobot to COMMIT SUICIDE to run?

To me that seemed completely un-necessary. Other than that, completely awesome.

Mkall wrote:I may have missed the explanation, but why does the all-powerful judging computer, which holds sway over the entire Justice system on a planet require an Autobot to COMMIT SUICIDE to run?

To me that seemed completely un-necessary. Other than that, completely awesome.

Since I happened to address this already elsewhere, I'll borrow my post to here:

"Actually, I think it makes some sense from a computer security perspective.

If a system has a backdoor of some kind in case of password loss, you basically create a new security hole. What's the point of a password to begin with if it can just be bypassed by someone saavy enough to throw in some "safe-boot" action, or a boot from an access program on a thumbdrive, or something similar?

This basically is an attempt to make sure that the backdoor in question is also secure in some way. Because, think about it. How many Decepticons do YOU know that are willing to self-sacrifice themselves without any coercion? One of the few who is just died trying to stop Overlord."

And to borrow another addendum from the IDW boards:

"Yeah, but that's a failsafe that you only have to worry about if there are NO REMAINING members of Garrus-9's command crew around to circumvent it.

I mean, if your entire command staff has died, clearly you don't want anyone getting access to this thing without paying a very steep price. Not only that, but one that only Autobots (or possibly fanatical Decepticons) would be willing to pay.

It struck me as being rather smart, actually."

Ow man the writing is top notch, I actually feel sorry for the guys that die in this, while usually I just have this "oh well one chunk of metal less" attitude when it's someone I don't know from my childhood.

I was never fond of Twintwist and Topspin since I never really knew them that well and their toys look rubbish and "not badass" but now I actually feel like "no why did they have to go?!" I hope we get classics toys for them.

The reveal was good. I hadn't built it up in my head so I was wasn't let down at all. I was actually disturbed by Twin Twist's torture and demise. I'm interested to see what will happen to Ironfist now that his head contains Aequitas and he blacks out all the time... maybe it will become sentient and take over his body when he blacks out?

That would be awesome, especially if they threw in a Venom Easter-egg like "Protect the innocent, punish the guilty", since the computer is the Autobot's judge and Venom is crazy like that.

I loved Pyro's fan-fiction story with Prime

I was unsure of Grimlock's fate. How did he get off Garrus-9?

Also, what is so important about Aequitas? It's basically just a trial judge so what data could it have other than trial and prisoner case files?

I litterally just started reading this series today, with the first one, and it is frekn awesome! Ive always wanted a super voilent, twisted Transformers comic! Ill definately get #2 maybe next week or sooner if I can.

And now to ramble about the actual good issue this week...

I'll confess, there is fanwank in this series that I love... but it's not TF fanwank, it's the writer fanwank. As in, a ton of lampshaded and subverted tropes, and about as much information given indirectly through subtle context as through dialogue, and borrowing into TF some concepts from real-life wars, and treating it all with a sense of realism. As in, some actual proper scifi writing in a TF series.

Especially since it helps having one of the writers also doing most of the art, I think. For instance, I love the sequence with Ironfist telling his "story". The art is all bright and colorful and "cutesy" (for lack of a better term). Everyone's got melodramatic expressions and poses, and Springer and Impactor in particular look all much, much more "cheery Boy Scout" than they usually do. That all sells "this might not have really been how it went down" as much as anything.

Also, nice dealing in there with the fact that the TFs are robots who can take more punishment than the average human and live. There was a battle tactic on Impactor's part that you hopefully don't see every day.

Other thoughts...

I loved the whole sequence with the discussion of activating Aequitas... nobody ever asks the redshirts if they're OK with the dying bit. Especially Pyro's reaction... I wondered exactly what form his particular meltdown would take. Plus, IMHO it goes a long way towards explaining why these particular new folks were chosen. Yeah, they know their stuff incredibly good (well, other than Ironfist...) but they're also kind of, well, dorks.

Speaking of Ironfist, I swear, the more this series goes on, the more I want to hug him. "Break The Cutie" indeed.

Now I'm nosy as to who Prowl turned down and why, and why he wanted Ironfist on the Wreckers team. And what sort of "accident" Ironfist suffered.

I liked poor Snare. :/ It's so rare to see a Decepticon with some smarts and bravery without turning into a "good guy" in the end. And shot for being a "traitor" by a 'Con with much less sense. Also, gotta love Impactor, heh... he might be willing to try and help the guy, but if he just wants it over with instead, well, Impactor's not the drawn-out sentimental type. I'm sorry, had you been planning on a noble dying speech?

Kind of interesting... Pyro and Snare both want their deaths to have some kind of "real" meaning... but it's the 'Con that had the "right" sort of meaning in mind.

There's also an interesting contrast between Ironfist and Pyro. Ironfist (so far) seems like the sort of worshipful fanboy who puts his idols on pedestals, while Pyro's the stalker type who identifies way too closely with his idol and wants to prove that he's just as good. Of course, poor Ironfist gets his hopes dashed... remains to be seen what Pyro's fate will be. (Especially seeing as how so far people's fatal flaws tend to be very literally fatal.)

I'm impressed with how R&R make Ironfist have this litany of stuff that's gone wrong in his life... and it comes of as genuinely pity-inducing instead of wangsty.

And I liked the reveal of Aequitas. I could tell from the previous clues and tone in the story that most people's guesses and expectations were way off, and they were looking for the wrong type of story from all this. Makes perfect sense that the Autobots would use something like that as their judge and jury. And that it would have such fierce protection... that's basically a hard drive full of every dirty secret and thing that both Autobot and Decepticon alike have done, and judging from Ironfist's shaken reaction, most Transformers don't know most of what's in there.

Perceptor's a right cold bastard in this, isn't he? Probably the only real niggle... I miss the Perceptor who was as practical as Prowl but differed by having much more compassion while being so. Then again, it wasn't R&R's idea to change him around, so I can't stick that at their doorstep.

I feel so sorry for the Jumpstarters. :/ Topspin in particular, oddly enough, despite what happened to Twin Twist. Topspin didn't really sign up for this; he really just wanted to be a plain old map-maker. But when push comes to shove, he looks out for his "bro".

Finally, I love all the real world touches in this. The Decepticon Registration Act. Overlord's statement that "Play makes you free". Ironfist being responsible for weapons that go against the TF equivalent of the Geneva Protocol.

Then the questions... downloading your important data into someone who's got his brain already a bit messed to begin with has got to suck; wonder where that's gonna go. And I do wonder what the deterrence chip means for certain Autobot prisoners other than Impactor... (Also, what happened to the initial Decepticon strike force? Is it really all prisoners chasing after the Wreckers?)

After going all this way without mentioning any obscure reference, I have to admit there are a few I'm still curious about. Gideon's Glue? The Black Epoch? The Nightmare Engine? (I love how the Wreckers have enough adversaries to actually have a Top 250.)

Also... Ironfist's bio lists his status as "unconfirmed, presumed deceased"? Hmm... :/

All in all, I'm sad this only has one more issue, as so far this series is easily shaping up to be among TF's best fiction.

Pyro is a wannabee, a poser with a drastically overinflated sense of worth.

Ironfist is a character who has been thrust into his situation. He wasn't built for war and probably would have never become an Autobot if it weren't for the war but he knows how dangerous the Decepticons are. He clearly doesn't have the stomach for heavy combat duty so he does what he can as a part of the support staff. I think his fascination with the Wreckers is a coping mechanism.

Personally, I think Ironfist was chosen because for whatever reason he has the capacity to carry the Aequitas data. I believe Perceptor knows this and he had no intention of letting Ironfist sacrifice himself. The fact that they didnt try to get Fortress Maximus' brain working again shows that either he is too far gone or they felt they didn't have enough time. Ironfist's STATUS and LOCATION in his profile are contradictory. If he is presumed dead then his location would be classified which indicates that someone knows where he is.

The appearance of some shenanigans going on in this regard tells me that Ironfist survives and is now a de facto version of Aequitas making him a high value asset worth secrecy.

It is possible that only the prisoners who weren't spark extracted were given deterrence chips. Spark extracted bots pose zero threat inside the facility but warriors like Impactor and Grimlock would. One would have thought Perceptor would have taken it out while they were on the ship.

sorry off topic, i always get in late on forums. anyway. my thoughts at

http://comicbookrevolution.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=348:transformers-last-stand-of-the-wreckers-4-review

Pls comment if u agree/disagree, thanks
hooge spoilers fyi

I'm late to the party, considering that I didn't grab this issue until a couple of days ago.

I really like Last Stand of the Wreckers, but the entire business surrounding Aequitas leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully, with the last issue of the series, questions will be answered satisfactorily.

1. An "infallible" computer judge? Judgments & sentences are, by their very nature, subjective. I don't see how a computer using some sort of algorithms can be "infallible." Seems too convenient, a la The Magnificence (itself the worst plot contrivance in TF canon), to me.

2. Re: needing either the G-9 command crew or a spark donation to boot up Aequitas - I realize the importance of the info stored on Aequitas' hard drive, but this was a major design flaw which seemed to me a convenient excuse to get rid of the Jumpstarters. I realize G-9 is a formidable garrison, but to leave the password to the command crew doesn't seem like much of a fail-safe to me. As Fort Max showed, they could be captured & used to break the lock. In Fort Max's case, it hadn't happened yet, but TFs have time to wait.

I think of nuclear submarines whereby different people have different keys, all of which must be had to launch nuclear missiles. That seems like a much better security feature than what was done w/ Aequitas.

3. How can the hard drive of a HUGE supercomputer be downloaded into a SMALL 'bot? I'm sure Ironfist's accident will explain his suitability for having a supercomputer's hard drive downloaded into his brain, but that too seems too convenient.

As far as non-Aequitas-related gripes go, I realize the Wreckers have a reputation for doing whatever it takes to get the job done, but I think they have a special bond that isn't found in the Autobot rank-and-file. Therefore, it doesn't seem congruent that they'd go in knowing that they'd probably have to sacrifice one of their own, even if it wound up being one member of the "second string."

txex97 wrote:I'm late to the party, considering that I didn't grab this issue until a couple of days ago.

I really like Last Stand of the Wreckers, but the entire business surrounding Aequitas leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully, with the last issue of the series, questions will be answered satisfactorily.

1. An "infallible" computer judge? Judgments & sentences are, by their very nature, subjective. I don't see how a computer using some sort of algorithms can be "infallible." Seems too convenient, a la The Magnificence (itself the worst plot contrivance in TF canon), to me.

2. Re: needing either the G-9 command crew or a spark donation to boot up Aequitas - I realize the importance of the info stored on Aequitas' hard drive, but this was a major design flaw which seemed to me a convenient excuse to get rid of the Jumpstarters. I realize G-9 is a formidable garrison, but to leave the password to the command crew doesn't seem like much of a fail-safe to me. As Fort Max showed, they could be captured & used to break the lock. In Fort Max's case, it hadn't happened yet, but TFs have time to wait.

I think of nuclear submarines whereby different people have different keys, all of which must be had to launch nuclear missiles. That seems like a much better security feature than what was done w/ Aequitas.

3. How can the hard drive of a HUGE supercomputer be downloaded into a SMALL 'bot? I'm sure Ironfist's accident will explain his suitability for having a supercomputer's hard drive downloaded into his brain, but that too seems too convenient.

As far as non-Aequitas-related gripes go, I realize the Wreckers have a reputation for doing whatever it takes to get the job done, but I think they have a special bond that isn't found in the Autobot rank-and-file. Therefore, it doesn't seem congruent that they'd go in knowing that they'd probably have to sacrifice one of their own, even if it wound up being one member of the "second string."

A lot if not all of this is addressed at the end of the 5th issue. Some of it may have to be given up to 'suspension of disbelief' though.

Jeysie wrote:

First-Aid wrote:I much prefer the new G1 take. It's more original, and is going places the original series didn't.

Er... I think you have this a bit backwards.

The -ations were original. The story and characters all went in a lot of creative and unique directions that hadn't been done in the G1 stories I'm familiar with, at least, and it felt like it was really building to something interesting.

And then AHM basically threw out everything that was new and unique to retread several old cliches and turn everyone from their previous reinvented selves into more Sunbow-ish versions of themselves, as well as throwing out the more little-used characters in favor of the '84 crowd that always seems to get the spotlight.

The ongoing is somewhat better, but it still carries on the cliche characterization, as well as making several characters act like idiots on top of it. Further, it's gone from the previous interesting grey back to the "bleeding heart good guys and bad guys who stab each other in the back even when it's not in their best interest" type of characterization. We also go from an interesting treatment of humans not being important to the same "humans are special" attitude.

Personally, I wish the new G1 take actually was original, as it would soften the sting of losing the unique take the series started out with. There was a real step for AHM to do something new and interesting... but instead we have the Decepticons going around doing random damage on Earth and the Autobots moping around uselessly.

And then there was a real step for the ongoing to do something different with the Swindle & Hot Rod setup... but nope, the sudden and inevitable betrayal occurs and we're instead back to the same status quo instead of forging something actually new.

The -Ation series was NOT good, it was a mess, with absoulte NO real characterizations, and boring as hell. The only good things that Furman did was give Galvatron a new origin and tried to make Sixshot a badass (but the ball with the character) and he tried to make The Pretenders make sense. The rest was sloppy and generally bad storyline.

First-Aid wrote:And that is EXACTLY why most of you don't like it; it's not Simon Furman, it's not old school Marvel, it's not a regugitation of Transformers lore from the 80's.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I came in with the movies, so I didn't know Furman from a hole in the wall until I read the -ations, and later the Marvel stuff.

I liked the -ations because it was good and interesting reading, I disliked AHM because it was cliche and poorly written, and I'm just sort of meh on the ongoing because it's just boringly uncreative. With the post-AHM stuff, I can't help but feel like it keeps reminding me of the old Sunbow and Marvel storylines, rather than doing anything new.[/quote]

First-Aid is right to many fans Furman is the only guy that should write all Transformers comics and sad truth is he hasn't written a good TF comic since Transformers: Generation 2 #12. All Hail Megatron was the best Transformers comic book series since G2 ended.

First-Aid wrote:That being said, I am enjoy the Wreckers series as well. As different as the ongoing series is, the Wreckers series is more "same ol same ol". And that's why it's so popular with the fanboys.

Again, I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I love Wreckers is because so far it's just so damn well-written.

We have characters with rich and interesting development and snappy dialogue (dialogue in particular being something none of IDW's other writers--including Furman--has gotten all that right, IMHO). We have exposition handled expertly. We have a layered story with a ridiculous amount of meticulously placed details that I keep discovering when I go back and read the older issues after a new issue comes out, or when people point out to me little things and connections I had missed. We have action and suspense that have been greatly missing from the rest of IDW's works lately. We have some great psychological horror fuel that also doesn't often show up in TF fiction as of late.

There's also a lot of interesting ideas going on here. This is pretty much the sort of scifi story I've been wanting to see ever since I discovered TF, and one of the few occasions said scifi stories actually have been delivered in TF fiction.

Fanwank pretty much just doesn't enter into it for me.

Meanwhile, there's SL: Prowl. The setup of AHM #15 was a chance to do something new and interesting with Prowl and his manipulative strategic plans, and a lot of interesting political intrigue and moral questions... but instead the review makes it sound an awful lot like we're instead getting the same old of Prowl becoming just another typical bleeding-heart sort of Autobot.[/quote]


I'll take the ongoing series over the Books of Furman.

Cyberstrike wrote:The -Ation series was NOT good, it was a mess, with absoulte NO real characterizations, and boring as hell. The only good things that Furman did was give Galvatron a new origin and tried to make Sixshot a badass (but the ball with the character) and he tried to make The Pretenders make sense. The rest was sloppy and generally bad storyline.

I think you and I must have read completely different comic series, as I thought the -ations were great storytelling, They weren't perfect, but they were a good attempt to actually do something new and halfway serious with TF fiction; much better than IDW's current crop of cliche and tired stories, bar Wreckers. I definitely find the -ations much much more interesting than the ongoing, which I've found pretty boring and uninspired so far.

Heck, the -ations were what convinced me to actually buy and read TF comics; which is saying a lot, as usually I don't buy ongoing comic series.

There also was plenty of characterization, with many characters getting interesting reimaginings and obscure characters getting great spotlights. (I'll be the first to say that dialogue is not Furman's strong point, but he's fine at the other ways of establishing characterization.

Of course, Roche and Roberts are the only IDW TF writers to really get characterization almost perfect, though Mowry also did a good job.)

Cyberstrike wrote:First-Aid is right to many fans Furman is the only guy that should write all Transformers comics and sad truth is he hasn't written a good TF comic since Transformers: Generation 2 #12.

Yeah, that's why so many fans liked Mowry and Roche/Roberts just fine. This old tired untrue argument has been debunked so many times I wish it'd get taken out and shot instead of having its half-dead carcass constantly dragged in by people unwilling to accept the actual real fact that people don't like the current stories because they're not good, not because of who is or isn't writing them.

Cyberstrike wrote:All Hail Megatron was the best Transformers comic book series since G2 ended.

...

Sorry, I'm busy trying to figure out if that's just a very scathing opinion of the quality of TF comics that you think something as badly and amateurishly written as AHM was the best comic series since G2, or if your taste in writing quality is really that bad.

Cyberstrike wrote:I'll take the ongoing series over the Books of Furman.

I'll take anyone who can write more interesting stories than Costa's current boring run.

Jeysie, Prowl and Magnus both come back into their own at the end of Wreckers.

WE already know Prowl was involved, but #5 (out next week), is going to wrap the series up quite well for everyone, and maybe restore some faith in IDW's TF comics.

I dig LSOTW. It takes a set of obscure, or unused characters and builds them up.

Characterization is great, we know a lot about many of the characters that we did not know earlier. The art is good, it goes into the realm of too cartoon-y at times (especially in facial expressions), but I still find it excellent.

I've read a draft of Ongoing 7, 8. I think the new arc is going to, unfortunately, support more of Jeysie's rehash idea. I'm not going to give too much of anything away, but there are missing cons after AHM and CODA wrapped, and we start to find out about them... the ones not trapped on Earth in Swindle's group.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Jeysie, Prowl and Magnus both come back into their own at the end of Wreckers.

WE already know Prowl was involved, but #5 (out next week), is going to wrap the series up quite well for everyone, and maybe restore some faith in IDW's TF comics.

Well, it'll continue my faith in Roche's ability to pay attention to and build off existing continuity in interesting ways.

But the only thing that will restore my faith in IDW comics at large is when every other writer learns how to do that. Because, in the grand scheme of things, what Roche does with given characters means precisely jack outside of that mini if the other writers simply ignore/retcon it like they've been doing lately.

That's not to say Roche's writing isn't still deeply appreciated; it just means that I think of Wreckers as just being a self-contained bit of enjoyment that will have little to no real impact on anything else, based on IDW's current track record. Wreckers being good really means nothing about the rest of IDW's output, sadly.

Certainly Costa felt free to ignore and/or retcon Roche's last attempt at interesting characterization, and Ongoing Magnus and Prowl act pretty much nothing like Wreckers Magnus and Prowl (or, -ations Magnus and Prowl, for that matter).