Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction
Saturday, February 11th, 2017 11:58AM CST
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Every 2 weeks, Seibertron.com brings to you a Top 5 and occasional Top 10 list written by william-james88. But this week, we are gonna shake some things up a teensy bit. Guest analysis D-Maximus_Primal is here to give you a Top 5 list centered not on toys, but on the fiction that we all love to read and then buy the toys as a result. These are all the opinions of 1 person, so treat them as such as you read along. The point of these sorts of things is to have a lot of fun as well as get the community to tell us what you really think of the shape-shifting toys and characters that we all love. So strap in tight folks! All previous lists can be found here.
Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction
Now when it comes to Transformers, we generally have the 2 opposing factions, whether they be Autobot/Decepticon, Maximal/Predacon, Autobot/Predacon, Rescuebot/Morbot, etc. We usually like to think of the characters being dedicated to one side and only that side, and eventually winning or losing to their respective rivals. But oh so often this is nowhere near the case. Transformers are not black and white; rather, they have so many shades of gray that there are times that you can never truly be sure of a character's true sides and motive. For this reason, we have many different characters that have left their respective faction, whether it be from anger, sadness, betrayal, confusion, and occasionally mind control.
The purpose of this list is to look into those many characters that have left their faction in favor of either another faction or to abandon factions altogether. The list takes into account how important to the overall story the Transformer in question is with his/her actions and how this changed the course of that Transformers Series.
5. IDW Thundercracker
Our list starts off with the blue version of the original Seeker trio. When it came to TV shows, Thundercracker never got a good rap seeing as how he was simply a look-alike to one of the bigger shows stars and basically was second bananas to most everyone else in the show. Now the comics have done him far more justice. Initially joining up with the Decepticons to fight against inequality and to rule by means of "Peace Through Tyranny," All Hail Megatron showed us a different Thundercracker. Thundercracker hated slaughtering people and he realized that the Decepticons were not fighting those worthy of their attention. Realizing just how lost they had all become, he abandoned his Decepticon counterparts as Megatron fell to Optimus Prime and Spike Witwicky to save the humans and Autobots still in New York city. He took a hold of the nuclear missile aimed at them, took it to space, and destroyed it. All he got in return was a blast to the face from an angry Skywarp.
He would go on to play pivotal parts in the 2009-2011 ongoing, serving as air reinforcement for the Autobots at times and even turning down an invitation to rejoin the Decepticons. After the war ended, he simply chose to live on Earth, away from Cybertron, until the Cybertronians returned, and he once again stood more Autobot than Decepticon, helping save the humans from a zombie Thrust/Ramjet armada, interpreting Buster the dogs speech to show that Blackrock was shady and that the Autobots were not bad, and even saving Sunstreaker from Galvatron's mighty fusion cannon after combining with him among others against his will.
Thundercracker has done a lot to make up for what he had been a part of, and has proven to be an honorable character that, while gruff, is a good person at Spark.
4. Prime Dreadwing
Dreadwing was always my favorite Decepticon from Transformers: Prime, and I'll tell you why: he was never a truly bad guy. He may have fought for the bad guy and he may have been an explosives expert who blew up people, occasionally without them even knowing it, but he had something that no other Decepticon had: Honor. He cared deeply for his brother, and when he felt his death, he flew all the way to Earth to look for who had killed him and he would avenge his brother. Once he arrived though, he showed a distinct difference from his fellow Decepticons. He served Megatron with honor, preferring to get his mission done and preferably do it as clean as possible, even if it meant letting some Autobots live.
As Season 2 went on, we saw Dreadwing, now serving as second-in-command, gradually progress as a character. He went on questionable missions with Megatron, such as stealing Liege Maximo's arm. He also began to see that Megatron was not as morally balanced as he thought, as he dealt with Megatron not only letting Starscream live, but also welcoming him back into his ranks with full repairs, all after finding out Starscream had revived his brother as a zombie. The final straw broke, He decided the Decepticons were no longer the right people for him, but he refused to join the Autobots. So he did the only thing he could: He stole the Forge of Solus Prime, gave it to the Autobots, tried to kill Starscream to avenge his brother, and finally falling to Megatron in response to his threat against Starscream, one of the saddest deaths in Prime. But, as a result of his actions, the Autobots were able to make it to Cybertron and thus prevent Megatron from gaining total victory.
Dreadwing proved to be a conflicted character, between his brother and the Decepticons. And he made the tough choice and he made it when it counted. He is the reason Prime even went on from this point for had he not, Earth would be simply a new Cybertron. His betrayal ultimately led to Earth's salvation.
3. Dark of the Moon Sentinel Prime
Now this is a character that had to make his impact fast as he only had 2 and half hours to do so, and an impact he did make. In the past, Sentinel Prime had proven to be a jerk when he was given characterization or Optimus Prime's predecessor when he wasn't given it. When we came into the movie, Sentinel was assumed to be the ultimate good, the thing that would turn the tide against Megatron and the new and all-powerful Shockwave! But then, Sentinel outdid both of them. Quickly. Without any sort of warning, he turns out to be Megatron's partner, kills Ironhide (and Mudflap and Skids technically), teleports an armada of Decepticons to Earth, seemingly removes and destroys the rest of the Autobots, and begins to enslave humanity, not caring even a bit.
While ultimately falling in battle, Sentinel made a huge impact in the movie-verse. For one thing, he was the first bot to turn out to be a bad guy. For another, he declared that he was the Autobots, essentially helping to set up the Autobots future troubles since they too could be the big bad that brings about Armageddon. But, probably biggest of all, he shattered Optimus Prime, showing him what he thought had to be done and doing it with no regards for others, and then almost succeeding with the side effect of destroying part of Cybertron in the process. Sentinel has proven to be the traitor to his kind that the movies will be known by (at least so far).
2. IDW Megatron
If you thought this one would be left off the list, then you really don't know how big this one gets. Megatron. An Autobot.
Yes that's right. How best to finish off a 12 issue crossover event that shattered the multiverse and set up Season 2 for both Ex-RiD and MTMTE? Make the big bad from Transformers lore a good guy. Yep, that'll work!
Megatron, finally realizing how far he had fallen from his days of peaceful reform, took up the badge of his friend Bumblebee and made it his own. In the 2 years and some odd months since, Megatron has proven to be an interesting character. He finds it hard to resist at first, letting slip his hatred for organics and his desire to see himself survive. But then the wake-up calls start hitting hard and fast. Within 6 months of each other, he finds out that the Universe would be vastly better had he not existed, and that he is responsible for so many dead that is is almost unfathomable. And then he is given the showdown with the very figurehead of his evil and the notion that he will not survive. And we see just how far he has come. He hates who he was and he hates seeing what he created. He now rejects violence and he simply wants nothing more than to make up for his past mistakes, something almost no one is willing to let him do.
And his actions have had far reaching consequences. As a result of what has happened, Galvatron has taken over and the Decepticons are in shambles, some even choosing to go the route of doing good or just trying to live on in the post-war era. Soundwave feels so betrayed that he turns the humans against the Autobots thanks to Megatron's defection. Even the Decepticon Justice Division now reforms for the sole reason of picking up where he left off, after killing him first.
So Autobot Megatron has shattered his own world, his home universe, and the fiction behind Transformers. The ultimate evil is now the good. This is almost good enough to make number 1, but there is a very obvious reason why Megatron is not #1...
1. Beast Wars Dinobot
This character was a no-brainer really. This Beast War combatant started out as a Predacon, became a Maximal, switched back and then returned to the Maximals, and everytime he did switch something significant happened. The first time he switched sides, he evened the odds of Maximal to Predacon, and would go on to make a big battlefield difference due to him being a warrior. When he switched back, he would harbor in the Golden Disk saga which would eventually lead to Megatron learning he was on Prehistoric Earth and that he could change history. And when he changed to Maximal one last time, he faced down his former Predacons and won, destroying the Golden Disk and severely damaging Megatron's plans, at the cost of his own life. And when he died, it was with honor and he proved to be one of Cybertron's greatest heroes.
Few Transformers characters have proven to be as popular and as important as Dinobot. He was a Beast Wars star and still is to this day. He is the ultimate example of a bot who changed sides, and in the end made the biggest difference he could while proving to be true to the side that he joined with and died for.
Honorable Mentions
Prime Knockout is worthy of note considering he is the only Transformers: Prime character to officially switch sides and he did so to help stop Starscream and enable the Autobots to actually fight back against Unicron in Predacons Rising.
Armada Wheeljack was also up for consideration, but ultimately while he and Hot Shot had a lot of issues and eventually he got mostly over them, he didn't play the pivotal role I felt the others played in their respective series.
Revenge of the Fallen Jetfire was also a pivotal character as he helped the Autobots actually find the Matrix in the movie and essentially revived Optimus and then gave him a power boost, but there was much more that could have been done with him. He needed a bit more to live up to his potential.
Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction
Now when it comes to Transformers, we generally have the 2 opposing factions, whether they be Autobot/Decepticon, Maximal/Predacon, Autobot/Predacon, Rescuebot/Morbot, etc. We usually like to think of the characters being dedicated to one side and only that side, and eventually winning or losing to their respective rivals. But oh so often this is nowhere near the case. Transformers are not black and white; rather, they have so many shades of gray that there are times that you can never truly be sure of a character's true sides and motive. For this reason, we have many different characters that have left their respective faction, whether it be from anger, sadness, betrayal, confusion, and occasionally mind control.
The purpose of this list is to look into those many characters that have left their faction in favor of either another faction or to abandon factions altogether. The list takes into account how important to the overall story the Transformer in question is with his/her actions and how this changed the course of that Transformers Series.
5. IDW Thundercracker
Our list starts off with the blue version of the original Seeker trio. When it came to TV shows, Thundercracker never got a good rap seeing as how he was simply a look-alike to one of the bigger shows stars and basically was second bananas to most everyone else in the show. Now the comics have done him far more justice. Initially joining up with the Decepticons to fight against inequality and to rule by means of "Peace Through Tyranny," All Hail Megatron showed us a different Thundercracker. Thundercracker hated slaughtering people and he realized that the Decepticons were not fighting those worthy of their attention. Realizing just how lost they had all become, he abandoned his Decepticon counterparts as Megatron fell to Optimus Prime and Spike Witwicky to save the humans and Autobots still in New York city. He took a hold of the nuclear missile aimed at them, took it to space, and destroyed it. All he got in return was a blast to the face from an angry Skywarp.
He would go on to play pivotal parts in the 2009-2011 ongoing, serving as air reinforcement for the Autobots at times and even turning down an invitation to rejoin the Decepticons. After the war ended, he simply chose to live on Earth, away from Cybertron, until the Cybertronians returned, and he once again stood more Autobot than Decepticon, helping save the humans from a zombie Thrust/Ramjet armada, interpreting Buster the dogs speech to show that Blackrock was shady and that the Autobots were not bad, and even saving Sunstreaker from Galvatron's mighty fusion cannon after combining with him among others against his will.
Thundercracker has done a lot to make up for what he had been a part of, and has proven to be an honorable character that, while gruff, is a good person at Spark.
4. Prime Dreadwing
Dreadwing was always my favorite Decepticon from Transformers: Prime, and I'll tell you why: he was never a truly bad guy. He may have fought for the bad guy and he may have been an explosives expert who blew up people, occasionally without them even knowing it, but he had something that no other Decepticon had: Honor. He cared deeply for his brother, and when he felt his death, he flew all the way to Earth to look for who had killed him and he would avenge his brother. Once he arrived though, he showed a distinct difference from his fellow Decepticons. He served Megatron with honor, preferring to get his mission done and preferably do it as clean as possible, even if it meant letting some Autobots live.
As Season 2 went on, we saw Dreadwing, now serving as second-in-command, gradually progress as a character. He went on questionable missions with Megatron, such as stealing Liege Maximo's arm. He also began to see that Megatron was not as morally balanced as he thought, as he dealt with Megatron not only letting Starscream live, but also welcoming him back into his ranks with full repairs, all after finding out Starscream had revived his brother as a zombie. The final straw broke, He decided the Decepticons were no longer the right people for him, but he refused to join the Autobots. So he did the only thing he could: He stole the Forge of Solus Prime, gave it to the Autobots, tried to kill Starscream to avenge his brother, and finally falling to Megatron in response to his threat against Starscream, one of the saddest deaths in Prime. But, as a result of his actions, the Autobots were able to make it to Cybertron and thus prevent Megatron from gaining total victory.
Dreadwing proved to be a conflicted character, between his brother and the Decepticons. And he made the tough choice and he made it when it counted. He is the reason Prime even went on from this point for had he not, Earth would be simply a new Cybertron. His betrayal ultimately led to Earth's salvation.
3. Dark of the Moon Sentinel Prime
Now this is a character that had to make his impact fast as he only had 2 and half hours to do so, and an impact he did make. In the past, Sentinel Prime had proven to be a jerk when he was given characterization or Optimus Prime's predecessor when he wasn't given it. When we came into the movie, Sentinel was assumed to be the ultimate good, the thing that would turn the tide against Megatron and the new and all-powerful Shockwave! But then, Sentinel outdid both of them. Quickly. Without any sort of warning, he turns out to be Megatron's partner, kills Ironhide (and Mudflap and Skids technically), teleports an armada of Decepticons to Earth, seemingly removes and destroys the rest of the Autobots, and begins to enslave humanity, not caring even a bit.
While ultimately falling in battle, Sentinel made a huge impact in the movie-verse. For one thing, he was the first bot to turn out to be a bad guy. For another, he declared that he was the Autobots, essentially helping to set up the Autobots future troubles since they too could be the big bad that brings about Armageddon. But, probably biggest of all, he shattered Optimus Prime, showing him what he thought had to be done and doing it with no regards for others, and then almost succeeding with the side effect of destroying part of Cybertron in the process. Sentinel has proven to be the traitor to his kind that the movies will be known by (at least so far).
2. IDW Megatron
If you thought this one would be left off the list, then you really don't know how big this one gets. Megatron. An Autobot.
Yes that's right. How best to finish off a 12 issue crossover event that shattered the multiverse and set up Season 2 for both Ex-RiD and MTMTE? Make the big bad from Transformers lore a good guy. Yep, that'll work!
Megatron, finally realizing how far he had fallen from his days of peaceful reform, took up the badge of his friend Bumblebee and made it his own. In the 2 years and some odd months since, Megatron has proven to be an interesting character. He finds it hard to resist at first, letting slip his hatred for organics and his desire to see himself survive. But then the wake-up calls start hitting hard and fast. Within 6 months of each other, he finds out that the Universe would be vastly better had he not existed, and that he is responsible for so many dead that is is almost unfathomable. And then he is given the showdown with the very figurehead of his evil and the notion that he will not survive. And we see just how far he has come. He hates who he was and he hates seeing what he created. He now rejects violence and he simply wants nothing more than to make up for his past mistakes, something almost no one is willing to let him do.
And his actions have had far reaching consequences. As a result of what has happened, Galvatron has taken over and the Decepticons are in shambles, some even choosing to go the route of doing good or just trying to live on in the post-war era. Soundwave feels so betrayed that he turns the humans against the Autobots thanks to Megatron's defection. Even the Decepticon Justice Division now reforms for the sole reason of picking up where he left off, after killing him first.
So Autobot Megatron has shattered his own world, his home universe, and the fiction behind Transformers. The ultimate evil is now the good. This is almost good enough to make number 1, but there is a very obvious reason why Megatron is not #1...
1. Beast Wars Dinobot
This character was a no-brainer really. This Beast War combatant started out as a Predacon, became a Maximal, switched back and then returned to the Maximals, and everytime he did switch something significant happened. The first time he switched sides, he evened the odds of Maximal to Predacon, and would go on to make a big battlefield difference due to him being a warrior. When he switched back, he would harbor in the Golden Disk saga which would eventually lead to Megatron learning he was on Prehistoric Earth and that he could change history. And when he changed to Maximal one last time, he faced down his former Predacons and won, destroying the Golden Disk and severely damaging Megatron's plans, at the cost of his own life. And when he died, it was with honor and he proved to be one of Cybertron's greatest heroes.
Few Transformers characters have proven to be as popular and as important as Dinobot. He was a Beast Wars star and still is to this day. He is the ultimate example of a bot who changed sides, and in the end made the biggest difference he could while proving to be true to the side that he joined with and died for.
Honorable Mentions
Prime Knockout is worthy of note considering he is the only Transformers: Prime character to officially switch sides and he did so to help stop Starscream and enable the Autobots to actually fight back against Unicron in Predacons Rising.
Armada Wheeljack was also up for consideration, but ultimately while he and Hot Shot had a lot of issues and eventually he got mostly over them, he didn't play the pivotal role I felt the others played in their respective series.
Revenge of the Fallen Jetfire was also a pivotal character as he helped the Autobots actually find the Matrix in the movie and essentially revived Optimus and then gave him a power boost, but there was much more that could have been done with him. He needed a bit more to live up to his potential.
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Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858678)
Posted by Dagon on February 11th, 2017 @ 12:21pm CST
Posted by Dagon on February 11th, 2017 @ 12:21pm CST
ROTF Jetfire? "I am a Decepticon . . . oh, wait, they're the bad guys now? Then I'm an Autobot."
In order for him to have undergone some development as a character, wouldn't he have needed to be a character first?
In order for him to have undergone some development as a character, wouldn't he have needed to be a character first?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858679)
Posted by Fox Thiagarajan on February 11th, 2017 @ 12:30pm CST
Posted by Fox Thiagarajan on February 11th, 2017 @ 12:30pm CST
Does IDW Drift fit the criteria? 
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858687)
Posted by YRQRM0 on February 11th, 2017 @ 1:58pm CST
Posted by YRQRM0 on February 11th, 2017 @ 1:58pm CST
I agree that Armada Wheeljack wasn't very pivotal, but come on, no Armada Starscream? He MADE Armada, was one of the most interesting versions of Starscream we've seen, and his ultimate sacrifice in the end was one of the most memorable Transformers episodes in history imo.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858688)
Posted by LE0KING on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:08pm CST
Posted by LE0KING on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:08pm CST
Yep, I'd put Drift for no. 5 and knock Sentinel off completely. His betrayal was obvious from the moment Optimus began deferring to him. Bay wouldn't let the leader not lead, cause then he wouldn't be the leader. 
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858689)
Posted by Insurgent on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:16pm CST
Posted by Insurgent on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:16pm CST
Sentinel Prime was the last great hero of Cybertron. He was the only one willing to put aside the war to rebuild their broken species. He didn't betray the Autobots, his species betrayed him. And Cybertron only got damaged because Sentinel himself was betrayed. I still love his line to Megatron. "Remember. I work with you. Not FOR you."
And of course he doesn't care about humanity. Does a military leader in charge of vast armies care about the horses his troops ride into battle? For remember, to them, we are the equivilant of animals.
Man, Sentinel Prime is probably my favourite of all the movie guys.
And of course he doesn't care about humanity. Does a military leader in charge of vast armies care about the horses his troops ride into battle? For remember, to them, we are the equivilant of animals.
Man, Sentinel Prime is probably my favourite of all the movie guys.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858690)
Posted by BeastProwl on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:20pm CST
Posted by BeastProwl on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:20pm CST
No Armada Starscream, not even a mention? And Sentinel? 
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858693)
Posted by Whirlkick on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:30pm CST
Posted by Whirlkick on February 11th, 2017 @ 2:30pm CST
Aw come on, no Drift?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858694)
Posted by President-prime on February 11th, 2017 @ 3:00pm CST
Posted by President-prime on February 11th, 2017 @ 3:00pm CST
I personally think the most shocking faction change is Rhinox, whether you like or dislike Beast Machines. When I found out Tanker was rhinox, it was like whoa. Then he pretended to be maximal, and betrayed again, wanting to rule cybertron. The others are preductable
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858702)
Posted by Cyberpath on February 11th, 2017 @ 4:25pm CST
Posted by Cyberpath on February 11th, 2017 @ 4:25pm CST
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858703)
Posted by BERSEKAEL on February 11th, 2017 @ 4:26pm CST
Posted by BERSEKAEL on February 11th, 2017 @ 4:26pm CST
missing DOTM Jetfire (as mentioned in other comment)
missing DOTM Wheelie
missing G1 skyfire
missing G1 Octane
missing 2015 Combiners Wars Tv show Starscream
missing DOTM Wheelie
missing G1 skyfire
missing G1 Octane
missing 2015 Combiners Wars Tv show Starscream
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858705)
Posted by Optimum Supreme on February 11th, 2017 @ 4:43pm CST
Posted by Optimum Supreme on February 11th, 2017 @ 4:43pm CST
Armada Starscream/Thundercracker should be #1. Shame he turned back to evil in the rest of the UT
g1 toon Skyfire is up there too. Cyberpath's gif shows why.
IDW Megatron, like most IDW, should be considered bad (if official) fan fic.
g1 toon Skyfire is up there too. Cyberpath's gif shows why.
IDW Megatron, like most IDW, should be considered bad (if official) fan fic.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858707)
Posted by zko on February 11th, 2017 @ 5:23pm CST
Posted by zko on February 11th, 2017 @ 5:23pm CST
To me the biggest part of Sentinel's betrayal of Optimus in DOTM was always the part that happened before the movie, where Sentinel left Optimus with a suicide mission to protect him while he escaped Cybertron, all the time going to meet Megatron and join forces with him, hence, Optimus and the Autobots were meant to die all the way back then according to Sentinel's plans.
That one had to burn Optimus and surely led to him offing Sentinel at the end of the movie. I always liked how they laid out that part of the story, where Optimus and Autobots, instead of dying on Cybertron because of Sentinel, went on to defeat his plans. It is kind of the opposite of foreshadowing, whatever that is called.
That one had to burn Optimus and surely led to him offing Sentinel at the end of the movie. I always liked how they laid out that part of the story, where Optimus and Autobots, instead of dying on Cybertron because of Sentinel, went on to defeat his plans. It is kind of the opposite of foreshadowing, whatever that is called.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858712)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on February 11th, 2017 @ 6:22pm CST
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on February 11th, 2017 @ 6:22pm CST
In my defense of the list, this was written 8 months ago, before I even really looked too hard into Armada. Starscream has definitely stood out since then, and the only reason I knew of Wheeljack was because of an eBay auction.
IDW Drift to me hasn't been a pivotal faction change worthy of being a top 5. It feels too cliche, as that is how he was designed and always portrayed. I felt there were others more worthy of a title on the list, but that's just me!
Skywarp didn't happen until after the list, not that he was more pivotal to others on the list.
RotF Jetfire felt worthless as a faction switch. All it really was was the symbols on his body ad the knowledge that before going to sleep he became disenchanted with the cons. Wheelie was a bit similar, feeling generally worthless as a cross-over guy, even if some good stuff happened.
Sentinel felt big because we were all meant to see him as the good guy, the teacher of the main good guy, and a tool to end the war in the good guys favor. And then the movie happened. He killed a main good guy (and 2 other good (not really main) guys if you count the novels with the twins deaths as well) and he was the better movie-verse traitor.
Going off that, I was having a hard time deciding what to call this list. I wanted a list where a guy went against his allies, but I couldn't get a good name that gathered them all in one basket. So yeah Will, Dinobot never really put on a Maximal symbol, but he didn't stand with the Predacons for most of the series, same with Dreadwing, who retained his con symbol and sense of honor.
Rhinox is a good one actually, just a pity he came from a series that a lot of people (including myself) don't really care for.
Again though, as Will always says: this list is for discussion. Just my thoughts to stimulate it!
IDW Drift to me hasn't been a pivotal faction change worthy of being a top 5. It feels too cliche, as that is how he was designed and always portrayed. I felt there were others more worthy of a title on the list, but that's just me!
Skywarp didn't happen until after the list, not that he was more pivotal to others on the list.
RotF Jetfire felt worthless as a faction switch. All it really was was the symbols on his body ad the knowledge that before going to sleep he became disenchanted with the cons. Wheelie was a bit similar, feeling generally worthless as a cross-over guy, even if some good stuff happened.
Sentinel felt big because we were all meant to see him as the good guy, the teacher of the main good guy, and a tool to end the war in the good guys favor. And then the movie happened. He killed a main good guy (and 2 other good (not really main) guys if you count the novels with the twins deaths as well) and he was the better movie-verse traitor.
Going off that, I was having a hard time deciding what to call this list. I wanted a list where a guy went against his allies, but I couldn't get a good name that gathered them all in one basket. So yeah Will, Dinobot never really put on a Maximal symbol, but he didn't stand with the Predacons for most of the series, same with Dreadwing, who retained his con symbol and sense of honor.
Rhinox is a good one actually, just a pity he came from a series that a lot of people (including myself) don't really care for.
Again though, as Will always says: this list is for discussion. Just my thoughts to stimulate it!
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858721)
Posted by griftimus prime on February 11th, 2017 @ 6:45pm CST
Posted by griftimus prime on February 11th, 2017 @ 6:45pm CST
lol dinobot shifted in the very first episode
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858728)
Posted by william-james88 on February 11th, 2017 @ 7:59pm CST
I dont get it, its a top 5 list, there can only be 5. So of course there will be some missing, how does that matter? Or are you saying that you would put Combiner Wars Starscream on this top 5 list?
Oh now I understand why you wrote Abandoned rather than Switched. In case a smartass like me came along
Well played and good title! Dinobot did indeed abandon the team. Though I find it really interesting how he never felt he was a maximal either. Like he felt pride to being a Predacon, since it was a symbol which must have meant something he believed in. Thats a really cool aspect of that show, like how Megatron wasnt acting the was a Predacon should and neither were the ones he had on his team, he was too radical, and the Predacon faction actually stood for more than simply evil. But thats another discussion. Thanks for the answers D-Max!
PS: I too dont think IDW drift is a good example since it never made for a compelling story and is more part of his backstory than it is a storyline we got to see unfold.
Posted by william-james88 on February 11th, 2017 @ 7:59pm CST
BERSEKAEL wrote:missing DOTM Jetfire (as mentioned in other comment)
missing DOTM Wheelie
missing G1 skyfire
missing G1 Octane
missing 2015 Combiners Wars Tv show Starscream
I dont get it, its a top 5 list, there can only be 5. So of course there will be some missing, how does that matter? Or are you saying that you would put Combiner Wars Starscream on this top 5 list?
D-Maximus_Prime wrote: I wanted a list where a guy went against his allies, but I couldn't get a good name that gathered them all in one basket. So yeah Will, Dinobot never really put on a Maximal symbol, but he didn't stand with the Predacons for most of the series, same with Dreadwing, who retained his con symbol and sense of honor.
Oh now I understand why you wrote Abandoned rather than Switched. In case a smartass like me came along
Well played and good title! Dinobot did indeed abandon the team. Though I find it really interesting how he never felt he was a maximal either. Like he felt pride to being a Predacon, since it was a symbol which must have meant something he believed in. Thats a really cool aspect of that show, like how Megatron wasnt acting the was a Predacon should and neither were the ones he had on his team, he was too radical, and the Predacon faction actually stood for more than simply evil. But thats another discussion. Thanks for the answers D-Max!
PS: I too dont think IDW drift is a good example since it never made for a compelling story and is more part of his backstory than it is a storyline we got to see unfold.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858738)
Posted by Bumblevivisector on February 11th, 2017 @ 8:46pm CST
Posted by Bumblevivisector on February 11th, 2017 @ 8:46pm CST
Funny that the first ever faction-switcher having 2 names in addition to 2 allegiances leads us to focus on his Sunbow persona while ignoring his Marvel counterpart; granted, G1 Jetfire only served the Decepticons before he became sentient, but though they took totally different paths, in the end both major G1 continuities had Jet-/Skyfire start out as a Con, then switch sides as soon as he knew better.
Maybe that's not thought-provoking philosophically, but it makes me wonder just what the pre-production notes were on how to handle the character. (I've skimmed the TF bible PDF, but mostly remember the notes warning to never use Skyfire for legal reasons, which were misunderstood and/or ignored) Was the whole point that Hasbro wanted to rigidly stick to the faction-determines-alt-mode idea at the launch, then abandoned it as soon as they knew they had a hit that would last a few years? Was the idea originally Budianski's? Jetfire's TFU entry mentions him being the first of a new generation of Autobots created on Earth, but IDR if it mentions his Decepticon heritage.
For a while after finally watching the whole series on DVD and seeing how much of a literal tool Skyfire was after his first appearance (He had no further character development, just showed up wherever the Bots needed air transport, then disappeared as inexplicably as Omega Supreme appeared), I actually thought of Jetfire and Skyfire as 2 different characters that just happened to look alike (ala Powermaster Op and Ginrai), but that was just nonsense considering how different G1 Shockwave and Blaster were in different universes. His change of heart is a pretty consistent point considering how often the same character has totally different origins across different continuities.
Now, if the criteria for this list was a faction switch having a major effect on the story, then #1 should be Carnivac!
But for the wrong reason.
See, it was his character arc that screwed up Marvel UK continuity bad enough that Earth Force can't quite fit anywhere. Okay, it was technically more the makeup of the second Mayhem Attack Squad, but Carny specifically joining the Autobot Earth Force is the moment where you realize that no amount of fanwank can reattach that splinter anywhere near Furman's American stuff.
Maybe that's not thought-provoking philosophically, but it makes me wonder just what the pre-production notes were on how to handle the character. (I've skimmed the TF bible PDF, but mostly remember the notes warning to never use Skyfire for legal reasons, which were misunderstood and/or ignored) Was the whole point that Hasbro wanted to rigidly stick to the faction-determines-alt-mode idea at the launch, then abandoned it as soon as they knew they had a hit that would last a few years? Was the idea originally Budianski's? Jetfire's TFU entry mentions him being the first of a new generation of Autobots created on Earth, but IDR if it mentions his Decepticon heritage.
For a while after finally watching the whole series on DVD and seeing how much of a literal tool Skyfire was after his first appearance (He had no further character development, just showed up wherever the Bots needed air transport, then disappeared as inexplicably as Omega Supreme appeared), I actually thought of Jetfire and Skyfire as 2 different characters that just happened to look alike (ala Powermaster Op and Ginrai), but that was just nonsense considering how different G1 Shockwave and Blaster were in different universes. His change of heart is a pretty consistent point considering how often the same character has totally different origins across different continuities.
Now, if the criteria for this list was a faction switch having a major effect on the story, then #1 should be Carnivac!
But for the wrong reason.
See, it was his character arc that screwed up Marvel UK continuity bad enough that Earth Force can't quite fit anywhere. Okay, it was technically more the makeup of the second Mayhem Attack Squad, but Carny specifically joining the Autobot Earth Force is the moment where you realize that no amount of fanwank can reattach that splinter anywhere near Furman's American stuff.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858742)
Posted by TulioDude on February 11th, 2017 @ 9:12pm CST
Armada Starscream is the top tier side switcher.
Jetfire lacked the build up of others,but for me,it was more of that sudden moment out of nowhere,that he wakes up,and tell he's on diffetent sides now.Up until this point,the movies built the idea that the Decepticon logo = danger.I have managed to avoid spoilers enough back then,to have no knowledge of what Jetfire did look like or his role in movie.So the suprise that,the ancient Transformer they were looking for,was a Decepticon,was genuine .Then the movie subverts the expectations again,by having this huge Decepticon jet,saying he was an Autobot now,felt pretty cool.
Posted by TulioDude on February 11th, 2017 @ 9:12pm CST
Starscream has definitely stood out since then, and the only reason I knew of Wheeljack was because of an eBay auction.
YRQRM0 wrote:I agree that Armada Wheeljack wasn't very pivotal, but come on, no Armada Starscream? He MADE Armada, was one of the most interesting versions of Starscream we've seen, and his ultimate sacrifice in the end was one of the most memorable Transformers episodes in history imo.
BeastProwl wrote:No Armada Starscream, not even a mention? And Sentinel?
Armada Starscream is the top tier side switcher.
RotF Jetfire felt worthless as a faction switch. All it really was was the symbols on his body ad the knowledge that before going to sleep he became disenchanted with the cons.
Jetfire lacked the build up of others,but for me,it was more of that sudden moment out of nowhere,that he wakes up,and tell he's on diffetent sides now.Up until this point,the movies built the idea that the Decepticon logo
= danger.I have managed to avoid spoilers enough back then,to have no knowledge of what Jetfire did look like or his role in movie.So the suprise that,the ancient Transformer they were looking for,was a Decepticon,was genuine .Then the movie subverts the expectations again,by having this huge Decepticon jet,saying he was an Autobot now,felt pretty cool.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858745)
Posted by JazZeke on February 11th, 2017 @ 9:17pm CST
Posted by JazZeke on February 11th, 2017 @ 9:17pm CST
What, no love for Carnivac, arguably the most compelling faction-abandoner of G1?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858764)
Posted by Ultra Markus on February 11th, 2017 @ 10:13pm CST
Posted by Ultra Markus on February 11th, 2017 @ 10:13pm CST
would prowl fit in becoming part of devastator
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858767)
Posted by JazZeke on February 11th, 2017 @ 10:31pm CST
No, because he just used Devastator for the "Autobot cause."
Posted by JazZeke on February 11th, 2017 @ 10:31pm CST
Ultra Markus wrote:would prowl fit in becoming part of devastator
No, because he just used Devastator for the "Autobot cause."
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858774)
Posted by Kurona on February 11th, 2017 @ 11:46pm CST
Posted by Kurona on February 11th, 2017 @ 11:46pm CST
To me IDW Megatron would top the list easily as it's been one of if not the most complex, intriguing and interesting character arcs to ever come out of the franchise. It's extremely impressive what's done with the concept especially when it could so easily have been something they do for a little bit before reverting back to status quo just to boost sales, like that ridiculous thing with Captain America being Hydra for a few comics. They stick by what is the biggest twist in all of Transformers, they run with it, and they haven't been too afraid to explore every aspect of it.
I'd also put IDW Thundercracker at Number 2 for the reasons actually left off this list and what I'm really disappointed to see being left off the list. While he did help the Autobots and EDC out from time to time and eventually actually become an Autobot... one of the best parts to me is that his leaving his faction wasn't the usual join the other side deal or go off fighting on his own. When he left his faction, he left the war. He got a dog. He took up screenplay. Currently he's journeying around the world with his best (human!) friend. When he needs to and when he feels it's important, push will come to shove and he will help out in battle. But when that's not the case, he's just trying to enjoy life. That's the biggest part to him and what makes him so lovable - he's no longer a Decepticon, he's not exactly an Autobot, he's not a part of any other party or faction or even a one-man army like TFP Dreadwing. He's just a guy trying to live his life that will do the right thing.
I'm also kind of glad to see Drift left off this left even though he's one of the more infamous examples. Not because he's a bad character - in IDW he was never really bad (by virtue of the fact he never did anything pre-2011), and in MTMTE he was made an actually pretty good character. And, uh, he's okay in RiD 2015 I guess though personally I find him the most obnoxious character of the show. Just my opinion though, I know a lot of people like him.
It's because nothing is ever done with his faction switching. AOE and RiD 2015 didn't even bother to bring it up and you only actually learned he's a former Decepticon in those universes from specific obscure spin-off material. And in IDW? Well... they do tackle it. His mini-series showed him detaching from the Decepticons, his Spotlight showed him becoming an Autobot and Empire of Stone showed him fighting Decepticons he used to be affiliated with. And... you can argue that all of that is decent. I didn't really get anything out of Empire of Stone myself and his spotlight and mini-series were kind of eh to me, but I can see why one would enjoy them and find them interesting. That's all fine.
But here's the thing for me: outside of that, this is never addressed directly if at all. It's... kind of incredible, actually. When they're stranded on earth in the Costa series no-one talks about it and he doesn't join up with Swindle's team for anything potentially interesting (hell, I didn't even see him in the comic until Chaos), it's not really brought up in MTMTE, and... and here's the biggest offender for me, barely mentioned at all in All Hail Megatron. And... yeah, okay, it's AHM. I don't need to convince you it's a bad series. But what really annoyed me about Drift in that series (aside from the scene where he cuts down an Insecticon, that kind of annoyed me) is that he doesn't do anything. Oh yeah he gets one little speech bubble congratulating Thundercracker for leaving the Decepticons, but... seriously? Seriously McCarthy? You specifically inserted a new character into the series who's main character trait aside from being a collection of half-assed Anime Samurai tropes is that he's a Decepticon-turned-Autobot, and he has nothing to say about the current situation where the Decepticons have for all intents and purposes won? Really? No interesting dialogue or interactions we could've gotten out of that? You don't even get Ironhide to punch him for being a former Decepticon? As a former Decepticon, he's not one of the ones suspected of leaking information to Megatron? It absolutely baffles me how little they do with it when it's apparently supposed to be his whole deal. An infinite well of potential completely gone to waste when it could have been interesting to bring up in multiple arcs. It only becomes a relevant character trait when the writers say it is, rather than a natural part of the story.
... so yeah, I'm glad he's left of this list.
I'd also put IDW Thundercracker at Number 2 for the reasons actually left off this list and what I'm really disappointed to see being left off the list. While he did help the Autobots and EDC out from time to time and eventually actually become an Autobot... one of the best parts to me is that his leaving his faction wasn't the usual join the other side deal or go off fighting on his own. When he left his faction, he left the war. He got a dog. He took up screenplay. Currently he's journeying around the world with his best (human!) friend. When he needs to and when he feels it's important, push will come to shove and he will help out in battle. But when that's not the case, he's just trying to enjoy life. That's the biggest part to him and what makes him so lovable - he's no longer a Decepticon, he's not exactly an Autobot, he's not a part of any other party or faction or even a one-man army like TFP Dreadwing. He's just a guy trying to live his life that will do the right thing.
I'm also kind of glad to see Drift left off this left even though he's one of the more infamous examples. Not because he's a bad character - in IDW he was never really bad (by virtue of the fact he never did anything pre-2011), and in MTMTE he was made an actually pretty good character. And, uh, he's okay in RiD 2015 I guess though personally I find him the most obnoxious character of the show. Just my opinion though, I know a lot of people like him.
It's because nothing is ever done with his faction switching. AOE and RiD 2015 didn't even bother to bring it up and you only actually learned he's a former Decepticon in those universes from specific obscure spin-off material. And in IDW? Well... they do tackle it. His mini-series showed him detaching from the Decepticons, his Spotlight showed him becoming an Autobot and Empire of Stone showed him fighting Decepticons he used to be affiliated with. And... you can argue that all of that is decent. I didn't really get anything out of Empire of Stone myself and his spotlight and mini-series were kind of eh to me, but I can see why one would enjoy them and find them interesting. That's all fine.
But here's the thing for me: outside of that, this is never addressed directly if at all. It's... kind of incredible, actually. When they're stranded on earth in the Costa series no-one talks about it and he doesn't join up with Swindle's team for anything potentially interesting (hell, I didn't even see him in the comic until Chaos), it's not really brought up in MTMTE, and... and here's the biggest offender for me, barely mentioned at all in All Hail Megatron. And... yeah, okay, it's AHM. I don't need to convince you it's a bad series. But what really annoyed me about Drift in that series (aside from the scene where he cuts down an Insecticon, that kind of annoyed me) is that he doesn't do anything. Oh yeah he gets one little speech bubble congratulating Thundercracker for leaving the Decepticons, but... seriously? Seriously McCarthy? You specifically inserted a new character into the series who's main character trait aside from being a collection of half-assed Anime Samurai tropes is that he's a Decepticon-turned-Autobot, and he has nothing to say about the current situation where the Decepticons have for all intents and purposes won? Really? No interesting dialogue or interactions we could've gotten out of that? You don't even get Ironhide to punch him for being a former Decepticon? As a former Decepticon, he's not one of the ones suspected of leaking information to Megatron? It absolutely baffles me how little they do with it when it's apparently supposed to be his whole deal. An infinite well of potential completely gone to waste when it could have been interesting to bring up in multiple arcs. It only becomes a relevant character trait when the writers say it is, rather than a natural part of the story.
... so yeah, I'm glad he's left of this list.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858775)
Posted by ScottyP on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:11am CST
Posted by ScottyP on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:11am CST
I was with you until the last sentence, then you lost all credibility.Optimum Supreme wrote:Armada Starscream/Thundercracker should be #1. Shame he turned back to evil in the rest of the UT
g1 toon Skyfire is up there too. Cyberpath's gif shows why.
IDW Megatron, like most IDW, should be considered bad (if official) fan fic.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858782)
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:49am CST
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:49am CST
Shoot, I completely forgot to say - Armada Starscream definitely deserves a mention. Maybe not a place on the list, not sure who I'd remove - aside from Sentinel - but Starscream was easily the best part of the Armada cartoon and his conflict about which faction he should be part of was not only a brilliant character trait but was woven well into the plot and was what finally convinced Megatron to team up with Optimus against Unicron. Armada was not a good show, but Starscream almost makes it worth it.
While not exactly related to the topic, I feel it's also important to note that to me it's also one of the best examples of how a character can be taken in a completely different direction from their original incarnation but still keep intact their basic character traits. Like G1 Starscream, the most prominent trait to this character is their betrayal of Megatron - but rather than make it a selfish act, this version takes it in a different direction; where it's more a selfless act and what they think is right. That way it gives breathes completely new life into the character and a fresh new role while still very clearly being a new version of that original character. Other good examples to me include Animated Optimus and Prime Soundwave but this is one that really stands out to me - maybe it's because the rest of Armada was so bad and this feels like where all the effort went so in contrast it feels like the best thing ever, maybe it's because it's the first time it was really done (since this was the first real reboot using old characters not called Optimus); but I still feel it's brilliant.
While not exactly related to the topic, I feel it's also important to note that to me it's also one of the best examples of how a character can be taken in a completely different direction from their original incarnation but still keep intact their basic character traits. Like G1 Starscream, the most prominent trait to this character is their betrayal of Megatron - but rather than make it a selfish act, this version takes it in a different direction; where it's more a selfless act and what they think is right. That way it gives breathes completely new life into the character and a fresh new role while still very clearly being a new version of that original character. Other good examples to me include Animated Optimus and Prime Soundwave but this is one that really stands out to me - maybe it's because the rest of Armada was so bad and this feels like where all the effort went so in contrast it feels like the best thing ever, maybe it's because it's the first time it was really done (since this was the first real reboot using old characters not called Optimus); but I still feel it's brilliant.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858783)
Posted by Gingko on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:50am CST
Posted by Gingko on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:50am CST
What about Black Arachnia Beast Wars ?
This show was really awesome, with Dinobot and BlackArachnia evolutions. There were other wo changed side (but only for one episode so i wouldn't put them on this list) like Rhinox it was so much fun when it happento him.
But really, I think BlackArachnia deserve to be mentioned.
Brainwashed at first, then betrayed by Megatron, then forced to join Maximal in a alliance of circonstances, then a true believer. When you had love story with Silverbot in the mix. A really interesting evolution.
This show was really awesome, with Dinobot and BlackArachnia evolutions. There were other wo changed side (but only for one episode so i wouldn't put them on this list) like Rhinox it was so much fun when it happento him.
But really, I think BlackArachnia deserve to be mentioned.
Brainwashed at first, then betrayed by Megatron, then forced to join Maximal in a alliance of circonstances, then a true believer. When you had love story with Silverbot in the mix. A really interesting evolution.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858786)
Posted by fenrir72 on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:02am CST
Posted by fenrir72 on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:02am CST
G1 Sunbow Skyfire?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858788)
Posted by JazZeke on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:23am CST
I don't think he really counts because he was so obviously meant to be an Autobot from the get-go. The characters on the list all had to deal with major repercussions for their decisions that lead to greater story arcs.
Posted by JazZeke on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:23am CST
fenrir72 wrote:G1 Sunbow Skyfire?
I don't think he really counts because he was so obviously meant to be an Autobot from the get-go. The characters on the list all had to deal with major repercussions for their decisions that lead to greater story arcs.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858789)
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:41am CST
To be fair, Dinobot was also clearly meant to be a Maximal from the get-go. As is evident from the symbol on his original toy
But yeah, it's just not quite that significant. The faction abandonment from all five on the list continued or continue to be a major factor in many (if not all) of their future stories. With Skyfire, it's just... he used to be Starscream's buddy. He joins Starscream's team. Now he sees that Starscream's team is the bad guys so he doesn't want to be one of them anymore. This will never be brought up again because this is a giant toy advert with little to no sense of or care for continuity.
I guess it was the first time it happened in the franchise so it's notable in that sense?
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:41am CST
JazZeke wrote:fenrir72 wrote:G1 Sunbow Skyfire?
I don't think he really counts because he was so obviously meant to be an Autobot from the get-go. The characters on the list all had to deal with major repercussions for their decisions that lead to greater story arcs.
To be fair, Dinobot was also clearly meant to be a Maximal from the get-go. As is evident from the symbol on his original toy
But yeah, it's just not quite that significant. The faction abandonment from all five on the list continued or continue to be a major factor in many (if not all) of their future stories. With Skyfire, it's just... he used to be Starscream's buddy. He joins Starscream's team. Now he sees that Starscream's team is the bad guys so he doesn't want to be one of them anymore. This will never be brought up again because this is a giant toy advert with little to no sense of or care for continuity.
I guess it was the first time it happened in the franchise so it's notable in that sense?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858791)
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:48am CST
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:48am CST
WHERE THE HELL IS CARNIVAC???
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858798)
Posted by dragons on February 12th, 2017 @ 3:33am CST
He was character he moved, he fought, he talked and he transformed combined with prime in end what can you ask for?
Posted by dragons on February 12th, 2017 @ 3:33am CST
Dagon wrote:ROTF Jetfire? "I am a Decepticon . . . oh, wait, they're the bad guys now? Then I'm an Autobot."
In order for him to have undergone some development as a character, wouldn't he have needed to be a character first?
He was character he moved, he fought, he talked and he transformed combined with prime in end what can you ask for?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858801)
Posted by Ironhidensh on February 12th, 2017 @ 5:32am CST
Wrong. I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Personal opinions aside, IDW has given the greatest transformers stories we've ever had.
IDW Megs should be #1 for one simple reason. IDW has made us actually care about Megatron.
Posted by Ironhidensh on February 12th, 2017 @ 5:32am CST
Optimum Supreme wrote:
IDW Megatron, like most IDW, should be considered bad (if official) fan fic.
Wrong. I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Personal opinions aside, IDW has given the greatest transformers stories we've ever had.
IDW Megs should be #1 for one simple reason. IDW has made us actually care about Megatron.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858802)
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 5:44am CST
I like my Megatron to be an evil force of destruction and conquering personally.
It's fine for other characters who ended up on the 'wrong' side aren't as important but for me Megatron IS the Decepticons and for him to turn good has pretty much taken a lot of the fear and danger from the faction as a whole if even one of his stature can go completelyt against his own characterisation (I've only read a few issues from that time where he changed, out of my own curiosity as to why they'd even do such a thing). I don't like using real life historical comparisons but in my mind it's like if Hitler decided he didn't want to be Nazi boss anymore and joined Churchill (I feel bad even just typing that..cos yes i fallen into that 'every internet argument has bringing up the nazis at some point).
I personally cared a lot about Megatron from Marvel UK. Even though it turned out some of his stories were retroactively made to be about a clone of his. He was still an evil warrior with depth and characterisation over the many issues. And he'd probably be horrified at the sappy IDW version and try to kill him for sullying the good (evil) name of Megatron and Decepticons.
But hey that's just my opinon and I don't particularly like IDW's take on G1. If you do then good for you, you got new comics coming out all the time.
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 5:44am CST
Ironhidensh wrote:Optimum Supreme wrote:
IDW Megatron, like most IDW, should be considered bad (if official) fan fic.
Wrong. I'm sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Personal opinions aside, IDW has given the greatest transformers stories we've ever had.
IDW Megs should be #1 for one simple reason. IDW has made us actually care about Megatron.
I like my Megatron to be an evil force of destruction and conquering personally.
It's fine for other characters who ended up on the 'wrong' side aren't as important but for me Megatron IS the Decepticons and for him to turn good has pretty much taken a lot of the fear and danger from the faction as a whole if even one of his stature can go completelyt against his own characterisation (I've only read a few issues from that time where he changed, out of my own curiosity as to why they'd even do such a thing). I don't like using real life historical comparisons but in my mind it's like if Hitler decided he didn't want to be Nazi boss anymore and joined Churchill (I feel bad even just typing that..cos yes i fallen into that 'every internet argument has bringing up the nazis at some point).
I personally cared a lot about Megatron from Marvel UK. Even though it turned out some of his stories were retroactively made to be about a clone of his. He was still an evil warrior with depth and characterisation over the many issues. And he'd probably be horrified at the sappy IDW version and try to kill him for sullying the good (evil) name of Megatron and Decepticons.
But hey that's just my opinon and I don't particularly like IDW's take on G1. If you do then good for you, you got new comics coming out all the time.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858811)
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:50am CST
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:50am CST
I, too, like my Megatron "evil and conquering." Ever since he changed faction, I completely ignored picking up the comics. When I heard the phrase (or title), "All Hail Megatron," I was so happy I bought every since back issue to read. We all Know Megatron is Optimus' opposites, evil and menacing, but heroic, in a sense." Like Optimus, who "was" phrase as the almighty Prime, Megatron commands fear to all those who oppose him and to those who follows him. The Megatron now is boring and is "not Megatron." I'm sorry but "lost light" and any iteration with Megatron as an Autobit have lost my support. I bought all other comics except those titles. So, I guess Carnivus is not "wrong." Other fans do agree with him 
Like Ravage said in his dying hours in Beast Wars, "Deceptivins, Forever."
Like Ravage said in his dying hours in Beast Wars, "Deceptivins, Forever."
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858814)
Posted by Ironhidensh on February 12th, 2017 @ 7:23am CST
I guess. If you want to read the same story, over and over again. IDW ended the war and moved on, it's time for fans to do the same.
Just don't call it "fan fiction" that's what set me off.
Posted by Ironhidensh on February 12th, 2017 @ 7:23am CST
President-prime wrote:I, too, like my Megatron "evil and conquering." Ever since he changed faction, I completely ignored picking up the comics. When I heard the phrase (or title), "All Hail Megatron," I was so happy I bought every since back issue to read. We all Know Megatron is Optimus' opposites, evil and menacing, but heroic, in a sense." Like Optimus, who "was" phrase as the almighty Prime, Megatron commands fear to all those who oppose him and to those who follows him. The Megatron now is boring and is "not Megatron." I'm sorry but "lost light" and any iteration with Megatron as an Autobit have lost my support. I bought all other comics except those titles. So, I guess Carnivus is not "wrong." Other fans do agree with him
Like Ravage said in his dying hours in Beast Wars, "Deceptivins, Forever."
I guess. If you want to read the same story, over and over again. IDW ended the war and moved on, it's time for fans to do the same.
Just don't call it "fan fiction" that's what set me off.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858818)
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 10:20am CST
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 10:20am CST
I'm not disagreeing with you either. Everyone enjoys what they enjoy. I'm an old fashion guy. I enjoy my transformers like the Olden days with a new take, just don't change the character the way they are meant to be portrayed. And by no means is that boring. That's the thing that I enjoy about transformers, and why I continue to collect, read, and watch. Fan fiction? That's my kind of fiction, and trust me, I'm the biggest transformers fan on the block. Your fan fiction could be different. Enjoy
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858822)
Posted by YRQRM0 on February 12th, 2017 @ 11:01am CST
I think he means that we never knew Jetfire as anything but "I'm an autobot now", within the movie at least. So his conversion wasn't very interesting, like other characters where switching sides is a big step/change in their character development.
Posted by YRQRM0 on February 12th, 2017 @ 11:01am CST
dragons wrote:Dagon wrote:ROTF Jetfire? "I am a Decepticon . . . oh, wait, they're the bad guys now? Then I'm an Autobot."
In order for him to have undergone some development as a character, wouldn't he have needed to be a character first?
He was character he moved, he fought, he talked and he transformed combined with prime in end what can you ask for?
I think he means that we never knew Jetfire as anything but "I'm an autobot now", within the movie at least. So his conversion wasn't very interesting, like other characters where switching sides is a big step/change in their character development.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858845)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:41pm CST
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on February 12th, 2017 @ 12:41pm CST
Someone mentioned Black Arachnia, and I gotta say, I totally agree. In some ways she even beats out Dinobot in this. Sure it was Dinobot's whole thing, but Black Arachnia really, actually, evolved into her role. The fact that she started out as a conniving schemer and became a totally trustworthy key member of the team is some pretty interesting stuff and it didn't just happen in one episode.
Rhinox/Tankorr was another good one. The key here is that he fully believed in Megatron's goals after becoming Tankorr. It wasn't just brainwashing, it was him.
I'm glad G1 Skyfire isn't on here. His faction switch isn't very important to his character.
Rhinox/Tankorr was another good one. The key here is that he fully believed in Megatron's goals after becoming Tankorr. It wasn't just brainwashing, it was him.
I'm glad G1 Skyfire isn't on here. His faction switch isn't very important to his character.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858851)
Posted by Lucky Logician on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:17pm CST
BM Tankor should top this list. I'd venture to say that the last 1/3 of Season 1 of Beast Machines pretty much played out almost exactly according to what Tankor wanted to happen. If the Maximals had awakened Rhinox's spark and he joinied them, the rest of that show would have played out MUCH differently.
Posted by Lucky Logician on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:17pm CST
The purpose of this list is to look into those many characters that have left their faction in favor of either another faction or to abandon factions altogether. The list takes into account how important to the overall story the Transformer in question is with his/her actions and how this changed the course of that Transformers Series.
BM Tankor should top this list. I'd venture to say that the last 1/3 of Season 1 of Beast Machines pretty much played out almost exactly according to what Tankor wanted to happen. If the Maximals had awakened Rhinox's spark and he joinied them, the rest of that show would have played out MUCH differently.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858854)
Posted by Gingko on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:30pm CST
Yeah I was thinking of him but, it's one of the few cases were i'm not ok with the story. I remember episods of Beast Wars where Rhinox was the very one to actually really enjoy organic life and peacefull meditation. Same way otpimus will do in Beast Machine.
And then Rhinox believe Megatron and his mecanic way ?! I don't understand this evolution.
Posted by Gingko on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:30pm CST
Yes ! I'm glad i'm not the only one to think that.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Someone mentioned Black Arachnia, and I gotta say, I totally agree. In some ways she even beats out Dinobot in this. Sure it was Dinobot's whole thing, but Black Arachnia really, actually, evolved into her role. The fact that she started out as a conniving schemer and became a totally trustworthy key member of the team is some pretty interesting stuff and it didn't just happen in one episode.
Rhinox/Tankorr was another good one. The key here is that he fully believed in Megatron's goals after becoming Tankorr. It wasn't just brainwashing, it was him.
Yeah I was thinking of him but, it's one of the few cases were i'm not ok with the story. I remember episods of Beast Wars where Rhinox was the very one to actually really enjoy organic life and peacefull meditation. Same way otpimus will do in Beast Machine.
And then Rhinox believe Megatron and his mecanic way ?! I don't understand this evolution.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858855)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:35pm CST
I agree with both your points Gingko. Blackarachnia is a good one, and one a good bit better the more I see people talk about. If I had written this last more recently, I would replace Sentinel with Blackarachnia. You guys are right, she really is a good one, same with Armada Starscream. Eesh, tough
I also agree with you about Rhinox. While his change of thoughts was very important and pivoting, it felt off. the change in personality was jarring, so I feel better about not including him.
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:35pm CST
Gingko wrote:Yes ! I'm glad i'm not the only one to think that.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Someone mentioned Black Arachnia, and I gotta say, I totally agree. In some ways she even beats out Dinobot in this. Sure it was Dinobot's whole thing, but Black Arachnia really, actually, evolved into her role. The fact that she started out as a conniving schemer and became a totally trustworthy key member of the team is some pretty interesting stuff and it didn't just happen in one episode.Rhinox/Tankorr was another good one. The key here is that he fully believed in Megatron's goals after becoming Tankorr. It wasn't just brainwashing, it was him.
Yeah I was thinking of him but, it's one of the few cases were i'm not ok with the story. I remember episods of Beast Wars where Rhinox was the very one to actually really enjoy organic life and peacefull meditation. Same way otpimus will do in Beast Machine.
And then Rhinox believe Megatron and his mecanic way ?! I don't understand this evolution.
I agree with both your points Gingko. Blackarachnia is a good one, and one a good bit better the more I see people talk about. If I had written this last more recently, I would replace Sentinel with Blackarachnia. You guys are right, she really is a good one, same with Armada Starscream. Eesh, tough
I also agree with you about Rhinox. While his change of thoughts was very important and pivoting, it felt off. the change in personality was jarring, so I feel better about not including him.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858856)
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:44pm CST
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:44pm CST
I disagree with Tankor/Rhinox; it's actually my least favourite thing about Beast Machines - it's biggest problem, for me, is that the characters suddenly had completely different characters to what they had in Beast Wars just in order to work for what the writers wanted. The ambitions of Rhinox and Megatron just came completely out of nowhere and contrasted almost completely to what they were like in BW with no explanation or hint.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858857)
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:54pm CST
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:54pm CST
And this is why Tankor should be number 1:)
It's out of left field and no one could have figured it out. That makes good storytelling and suspense. Tankor was supposed to be brainwashed by Megatron, after Optimus and the crew supposedly opened his mind, we thought he switched back to Maximal, but in his dark ind clouded with conquest the the idea of him being ruler of Cybertron, continues to plot his evil plan in secret. This is good storytelling. It's dark, but I enjoyed it. In the eyes of abandoning faction, Tankor "Obliterate!" The competition.
It's out of left field and no one could have figured it out. That makes good storytelling and suspense. Tankor was supposed to be brainwashed by Megatron, after Optimus and the crew supposedly opened his mind, we thought he switched back to Maximal, but in his dark ind clouded with conquest the the idea of him being ruler of Cybertron, continues to plot his evil plan in secret. This is good storytelling. It's dark, but I enjoyed it. In the eyes of abandoning faction, Tankor "Obliterate!" The competition.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858861)
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:59pm CST
Just because it surprises you doesn't make it good storytelling. I couldn't have guessed that Rhinox would do a complete 180 on his personality, no, but I also couldn't have guessed if the entire cast suddenly turned into 1960s television sets either. A good twist is one that you don't see coming but when you look back on it, it completely makes sense that this could have happened. "It's surprising" does not excuse abandoning common sense, precedence and what is already established about the characters and the universe.
Posted by Kurona on February 12th, 2017 @ 1:59pm CST
President-prime wrote:And this is why Tankor should be number 1:)
It's out of left field and no one could have figured it out. That makes good storytelling and suspense. Tankor was supposed to be brainwashed by Megatron, after Optimus and the crew supposedly opened his mind, we thought he switched back to Maximal, but in his dark ind clouded with conquest the the idea of him being ruler of Cybertron, continues to plot his evil plan in secret. This is good storytelling. It's dark, but I enjoyed it. In the eyes of abandoning faction, Tankor "Obliterate!" The competition.
Just because it surprises you doesn't make it good storytelling. I couldn't have guessed that Rhinox would do a complete 180 on his personality, no, but I also couldn't have guessed if the entire cast suddenly turned into 1960s television sets either. A good twist is one that you don't see coming but when you look back on it, it completely makes sense that this could have happened. "It's surprising" does not excuse abandoning common sense, precedence and what is already established about the characters and the universe.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858863)
Posted by SureShot18 on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:15pm CST
Posted by SureShot18 on February 12th, 2017 @ 2:15pm CST
I almost want to say Megatron would be my number one but Dinobot is really good. I do remember not being too sure about Megatron when I heard about it but after reading everything that he's been in over the past month and a half to catch up with MTMTE/LL, have to say I love it. And it's not like everybody in Universe likes it either, there are many that hate either how Megatron's abandoned the Decepticon cause or that Prime and the rest of High Command didn't immediately put him to death. The story telling that's come out of Megatron's switch is some of my favorite in TF history, The Dying of the Light mainly. Don't get me wrong I also love Megatron when he wants to conquer the universe and destroy any opposition but like Ironhidensh said, I actually care about Megatron now. And Jetfire/Skyfire is probably one of the worst in my opinion.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858910)
Posted by Insurgent on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:07pm CST
Posted by Insurgent on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:07pm CST
If you're talking about impact on shows, Dinobot still takes number 1 over Tankor. Sure, Tankor affected the final third of BM series 1, and thus series 2, but Dinobot switching sides lead to the attack on the humans, which also lead to him saving them, which lead to humanity spreading out across the world and learning/evolving to defend itself, thus meaning we could help the autobots win the war against the Decepticons, thus meaning Dinobot's side switching ended up affecting the entirity of G1, Beast Wars AND Beast Machines. Now THAT is what you call influencing the story.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858912)
Posted by Amelie on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:19pm CST
Posted by Amelie on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:19pm CST
G1 Blitzwing was the first character to ever do it in any meaningful way, in my opinion. Definitely should've been on the list just for that reason alone.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858914)
Posted by JazZeke on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:29pm CST
Posted by JazZeke on February 12th, 2017 @ 6:29pm CST
I'll add my voice to the "Rhinox/Tankor was just plain stupid" party. It would have been one thing if the writers had shown they understood the rest of the characters, but NOBODY came out of that show looking good. The writing of that series was terrible, so terrible that it killed the G1 continuity. Had it been good, Hasbro had plans to follow up with a series in the same continuity, one that would have seen the return of Optimus Prime. Instead, we got a full-on reboot, a series that was in a whole new continuity. We may take that for granted these days, but back then, it was an unprecedented move.
So yeah, F Beast Machines and F Dan Didio not just for that, but for what he's done to DC too.
So yeah, F Beast Machines and F Dan Didio not just for that, but for what he's done to DC too.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858929)
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 8:34pm CST
Posted by President-prime on February 12th, 2017 @ 8:34pm CST
You guys are too funny. Good conversations:)
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858934)
Posted by william-james88 on February 12th, 2017 @ 8:52pm CST
When you mentioned the Beast machines writers, I wanted to point out this fun factoid, but then I saw that you knew it all along. I actually met Dan once to talk to him about Beast Machines (even though he was present for his role in DC) and yeah pretty much the main storyline the show follows was the one he believed in and wanted to tell (that Cybertron was returning to its organix origins).
Anyways, I also hated the whole Tankor/Rhinox thing. Especially when you realize he isnt brainwashed and truly beieves in this, which is total madness. He is the only Beast Wars character to keep his original fully organic beast mode. The switch was just so off. It's like a movie where aliens invade earth only to realize they cant deal with Water or any other crazy Shamylan plot twist.
At least he admits being misguided in the end
These lists are always tough. If you would have done this, then you would get the ton of movie fans (and they are out there, we have a forum full of em) saying that its crazy how you could ignore the movie verse where the whole plot of a billion dollar grossing film was about a betrayal and someone going against his own faction.
The only way to win is to go with your guts and what you feel, like that you can write the most compelling reasons for the inclusions. And this list is what you felt at the time, nothing wrong with that. There will always be that one big "DAMN!" moment where you realize you forgot a major one when reading the comments, bu the fact that you couldnt think of it before is a testament to just how it didnt resonate as much as the others to you. And that means something too.
And for the record, I too think Blackarachnia is an awesome pick but for some reason Dinobot really outweighs her. It might be because his switch is the key to all of humanity's existence.
Posted by william-james88 on February 12th, 2017 @ 8:52pm CST
JazZeke wrote:So yeah, F Beast Machines and F Dan Didio not just for that, but for what he's done to DC too.
When you mentioned the Beast machines writers, I wanted to point out this fun factoid, but then I saw that you knew it all along. I actually met Dan once to talk to him about Beast Machines (even though he was present for his role in DC) and yeah pretty much the main storyline the show follows was the one he believed in and wanted to tell (that Cybertron was returning to its organix origins). Anyways, I also hated the whole Tankor/Rhinox thing. Especially when you realize he isnt brainwashed and truly beieves in this, which is total madness. He is the only Beast Wars character to keep his original fully organic beast mode. The switch was just so off. It's like a movie where aliens invade earth only to realize they cant deal with Water or any other crazy Shamylan plot twist.
At least he admits being misguided in the end
D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I agree with both your points Gingko. Blackarachnia is a good one, and one a good bit better the more I see people talk about. If I had written this last more recently, I would replace Sentinel with Blackarachnia. You guys are right, she really is a good one, same with Armada Starscream. Eesh, tough
These lists are always tough. If you would have done this, then you would get the ton of movie fans (and they are out there, we have a forum full of em) saying that its crazy how you could ignore the movie verse where the whole plot of a billion dollar grossing film was about a betrayal and someone going against his own faction.
The only way to win is to go with your guts and what you feel, like that you can write the most compelling reasons for the inclusions. And this list is what you felt at the time, nothing wrong with that. There will always be that one big "DAMN!" moment where you realize you forgot a major one when reading the comments, bu the fact that you couldnt think of it before is a testament to just how it didnt resonate as much as the others to you. And that means something too.
And for the record, I too think Blackarachnia is an awesome pick but for some reason Dinobot really outweighs her. It might be because his switch is the key to all of humanity's existence.
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858947)
Posted by Gallifreyan Autobot on February 12th, 2017 @ 9:47pm CST
Posted by Gallifreyan Autobot on February 12th, 2017 @ 9:47pm CST
Where would Shattered Glass Sideswipe go on this list?
Re: Top 5 Transformers Who Abandoned Their Faction (1858959)
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on February 12th, 2017 @ 10:25pm CST
Posted by Gauntlet101010 on February 12th, 2017 @ 10:25pm CST
I didn't feel that Rhinox's heel turn was that far off. I remember when Megatron reprogrammed him that one time; it felt along those same lines. That he could have a dark side to him.
To me, it made sense that the quiet thinker could come to the very dark conclusion that Megatron's sort of order actually could bring peace and stability. After all, Cybertron's organic nature was new to Rhinox. What worked for prehistoric Earth may not, in his opinion, work for the technological world of Cybertron.
Of course I don't think it's better than any of the ones on the list, though. It was just a heel turn I did wind up liking at the time.
To me, it made sense that the quiet thinker could come to the very dark conclusion that Megatron's sort of order actually could bring peace and stability. After all, Cybertron's organic nature was new to Rhinox. What worked for prehistoric Earth may not, in his opinion, work for the technological world of Cybertron.
Of course I don't think it's better than any of the ones on the list, though. It was just a heel turn I did wind up liking at the time.
