Takara Tomy Transformers Legends #48 Christmas Special Manga Now Online

Who's the cat girl? I'm somewhat familiar with the Japanese transformers but I don't recognise her at all.

@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

ZeroWolf wrote:Who's the cat girl? I'm somewhat familiar with the Japanese transformers but I don't recognise her at all.

@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

I think that's White Leo's wife? Wasn't she depicted a while back in his comic? I was about to state that I wanted a figure of her to get made (Lots of time for BBs, as I've got some mint boxed Japanese ones) but then Sikomofo had to go "waifu" her up, and Arcee too.

As for fans not liking it, my impromtu survey wasn't exactly thorough. It would be great for someone with better Japanese skills to interview Sakamoto or some of the suits at Takara to see why they choose this direction.

Have I mentioned I really hate these? I really hate these.

ZeroWolf wrote:@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

Vocal minority vs silent majority. Just because a few people on here say they don't like it and one guy asked his friends what they thought is not a direct indication of what the fandom at large wants.

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

Vocal minority vs silent majority. Just because a few people on here say they don't like it and one guy asked his friends what they thought is not a direct indication of what the fandom at large wants.

I already stated that it wasn't indicative of everyone in Japan, but colleagues, friends and others I've spoken to in Japan seemed to agree that it wasn't appropriate. I had similar conversations some time ago with other Japanese about Kiss Players.

Also, there is no evidence to back up your claims of a "silent majority". I've taken the trouble to do (albeit circumstantial) research into this.

Where is the evidence or research to back your claims?

primalxconvoy wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

Vocal minority vs silent majority. Just because a few people on here say they don't like it and one guy asked his friends what they thought is not a direct indication of what the fandom at large wants.

I already stated that it wasn't indicative of everyone in Japan, but colleagues, friends and others I've spoken to in Japan seemed to agree that it wasn't appropriate. I had similar conversations some time ago with other Japanese about Kiss Players.

Also, there is no evidence to back up your claims of a "silent majority". I've taken the trouble to do (albeit circumstantial) research into this.

Where is the evidence or research to back your claims?

You don't need to do "research" you just need common sense. There are hundreds of people that visit this site yet only about 10-15 users at most actually comment expressing their dislike. If there were loads of comments from different people saying that they didn't like it then that's a different story.

If you want to take the fandom at large then clearly there's a silent majority because the comics are still being made. That's all the evidence anyone needs. It's not like Takara is saying "fuck the fans let's keep doing what they hate" they're obviously getting enough support, or not getting substantial backlash for them to consider changing the content of the comics.

Thanks for the link to the new online comic, it is nice to stay up to date with these.
But I do have to say, even though I do enjoy the art of these comics (mangas), and have defended them before, reading all the comments about them, I have to also question why they continue to make them.
If fans (well most fans since I do like them) don't like these comics why are they being forced down their throats?
Unlike the Kiss Players, which you could ignore, this is like a main line, and for a collector includes a more desirable version of a figure over the Hasbro counterpart.
And yes it does state that these figures are for ages 15+, but that doesn't mean that the figures need to have material included with them, that has very "questionable" art. If I am right Masterpiece figures are intended for Adult Collectors and they don't come with anything like this.
Sure for someone like me, if I got an instruction sheet with a comic with a nice looking partly naked girl taken a shower I would be ECSTATIC , but that is just me, and it does seem that Takara/Tomy is not really thinking about all the collectors that are buying these figures. And you would think after the backlash of the Kiss Players, they would double-think this decision.
I have even noticed that some collectors are considering "throwing away" the instructions, and yes as a collector that is like a big deal.
Plus unlike the Kiss Players, there is no indication on the package that when you open it, you will be seeing cheesecake pics of female robots and naked "young" looking girls. Imagine a fan that doesn't pay attention to the forums or news boards, that buys the figure without any knowledge of all this. Now imagine for a moment that this fan whats to share this figure with his kids, again not knowing what awaits him.....I think (and hope) you see where I am going with this.

Anyways if I can find anything good about these comics it is that my favorite Autobot T-AI is getting a lot of attention.....and hopefully (even though doubtfully) she will get a figure made of her in the future......and not one of her taking a bath.

steals_your_goats wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

Vocal minority vs silent majority. Just because a few people on here say they don't like it and one guy asked his friends what they thought is not a direct indication of what the fandom at large wants.

I already stated that it wasn't indicative of everyone in Japan, but colleagues, friends and others I've spoken to in Japan seemed to agree that it wasn't appropriate. I had similar conversations some time ago with other Japanese about Kiss Players.

Also, there is no evidence to back up your claims of a "silent majority". I've taken the trouble to do (albeit circumstantial) research into this.

Where is the evidence or research to back your claims?

You don't need to do "research" you just need common sense. There are hundreds of people that visit this site yet only about 10-15 users at most actually comment expressing their dislike. If there were loads of comments from different people saying that they didn't like it then that's a different story.

If you want to take the fandom at large then clearly there's a silent majority because the comics are still being made. That's all the evidence anyone needs. It's not like Takara is saying "**** the fans let's keep doing what they hate" they're obviously getting enough support, or not getting substantial backlash for them to consider changing the content of the comics.

That's not correct. There can be many reasons for silence, including not being interested in the subject matter, not wanting to be outspoken/desire to be polite, or other reasons, too.

You have projected your own reasons upon what you believe is silence, with no facts to back up your claim.

In Japan, even though change DOES occur, the public isn't always as vocal as, can say Western public opinion. Also, my theory is that sales for Takara TF, especially Legends, has been low, so they have been sold in fewer outlets, to a smaller demographic. As such, there might be less interest either way and/or an outcry.

Regardless, the amount of people actually complaining can be seen to be irrelevant. It only took a few people at the start of any movement to create change.

So far, I can find little or no substance to your claims.

Michael Alex Kawa wrote:Thanks for the link to the new online comic, it is nice to stay up to date with these.
But I do have to say, even though I do enjoy the art of these comics (mangas), and have defended them before, reading all the comments about them, I have to also question why they continue to make them.
If fans (well most fans since I do like them) don't like these comics why are they being forced down their throats?
Unlike the Kiss Players, which you could ignore, this is like a main line, and for a collector includes a more desirable version of a figure over the Hasbro counterpart.
And yes it does state that these figures are for ages 15+, but that doesn't mean that the figures need to have material included with them, that has very "questionable" art. If I am right Masterpiece figures are intended for Adult Collectors and they don't come with anything like this.
Sure for someone like me, if I got an instruction sheet with a comic with a nice looking partly naked girl taken a shower I would be ECSTATIC , but that is just me, and it does seem that Takara/Tomy is not really thinking about all the collectors that are buying these figures. And you would think after the backlash of the Kiss Players, they would double-think this decision.
I have even noticed that some collectors are considering "throwing away" the instructions, and yes as a collector that is like a big deal.
Plus unlike the Kiss Players, there is no indication on the package that when you open it, you will be seeing cheesecake pics of female robots and naked "young" looking girls. Imagine a fan that doesn't pay attention to the forums or news boards, that buys the figure without any knowledge of all this. Now imagine for a moment that this fan whats to share this figure with his kids, again not knowing what awaits him.....I think (and hope) you see where I am going with this.

Anyways if I can find anything good about these comics it is that my favorite Autobot T-AI is getting a lot of attention.....and hopefully (even though doubtfully) she will get a figure made of her in the future......and not one of her taking a bath.

I completely agree with everything you wrote there. It's not just the subject matter, but the context in which it was and is presented.

And I'm no saint when it comes to it either. I've got plenty of adult material at home and I have no problem with different content in context, time and a place.

Put it this way, finding Sakamoto-sama's content in these toys is like the very real time I met this fantastic Sicilian girl in Chiba who "slept" with a henkei Starscream toy. I don't want one in the other, if you get my drift. In the same way, I also love alcohol, but I don't want free beer given away in happy meals to kids.

primalxconvoy wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:@Primalxconvoy thanks for the reply, it's interesting then that they are persisting in this direction despite customers not liking it.

Vocal minority vs silent majority. Just because a few people on here say they don't like it and one guy asked his friends what they thought is not a direct indication of what the fandom at large wants.

I already stated that it wasn't indicative of everyone in Japan, but colleagues, friends and others I've spoken to in Japan seemed to agree that it wasn't appropriate. I had similar conversations some time ago with other Japanese about Kiss Players.

Also, there is no evidence to back up your claims of a "silent majority". I've taken the trouble to do (albeit circumstantial) research into this.

Where is the evidence or research to back your claims?

You don't need to do "research" you just need common sense. There are hundreds of people that visit this site yet only about 10-15 users at most actually comment expressing their dislike. If there were loads of comments from different people saying that they didn't like it then that's a different story.

If you want to take the fandom at large then clearly there's a silent majority because the comics are still being made. That's all the evidence anyone needs. It's not like Takara is saying "**** the fans let's keep doing what they hate" they're obviously getting enough support, or not getting substantial backlash for them to consider changing the content of the comics.

That's not correct. There can be many reasons for silence, including not being interested in the subject matter, not wanting to be outspoken/desire to be polite, or other reasons, too.

You have projected your own reasons upon what you believe is silence, with no facts to back up your claim.

In Japan, even though change DOES occur, the public isn't always as vocal as, can say Western public opinion. Also, my theory is that sales for Takara TF, especially Legends, has been low, so they have been sold in fewer outlets, to a smaller demographic. As such, there might be less interest either way and/or an outcry.

Regardless, the amount of people actually complaining can be seen to be irrelevant. It only took a few people at the start of any movement to create change.

So far, I can find little or no substance to your claims.

There is just as much substance to my claims as there are to yours. I'm done with this conversation though, you can only argue with a wall so much.

What I don't understand is why he seems determined to keep coming back to a thread he KNOWS will upset him, after said thread was split out specifically due to his whining. In fact he barely seems to post in the Legends toy thread!

ANYWAY.

The Octane comic? Meh. Seen worse, and the idea of Octane being a bit of a perv (in addition to his many other vices as suggested by his G1 toy bio) is interesting. In any event, the lewdness is happening to ancient alien robots so the "m-muh underage fictional characters" argument falls flat.

As for the Christmas special? Good to see the Autobot Targetmaster trio completed, and the rampaging army of mischievous Sweeps was very funny.

Black Hat wrote:What I don't understand is why he seems determined to keep coming back to a thread he KNOWS will upset him, after said thread was split out specifically due to his whining. In fact he barely seems to post in the Legends toy thread!

ANYWAY.

The Octane comic? Meh. Seen worse, and the idea of Octane being a bit of a perv (in addition to his many other vices as suggested by his G1 toy bio) is interesting. In any event, the lewdness is happening to ancient alien robots so the "m-muh underage fictional characters" argument falls flat.

As for the Christmas special? Good to see the Autobot Targetmaster trio completed, and the rampaging army of mischievous Sweeps was very funny.

Because SJWs like him think they fight for you and speak for you even though you say a million times they don’t. He comes here and tfw2005 and says the same things over and over not to have a discussion mind you but just to be seen and heard and you will see and hear him.

I find the artwork amusing and like so many previous ones, hope someone will translate them. If someone had a Patreon and is taking donations to do translations, please let me know.
I enjoy these comics more then the IDW stuff to be honest.

Rodimus Knight wrote:I find the artwork amusing and like so many previous ones, hope someone will translate them. If someone had a Patreon and is taking donations to do translations, please let me know.
I enjoy these comics more then the IDW stuff to be honest.

Why do you enjoy them more? What could IDW learn from these comics?

primalxconvoy wrote:

Rodimus Knight wrote:I find the artwork amusing and like so many previous ones, hope someone will translate them. If someone had a Patreon and is taking donations to do translations, please let me know.
I enjoy these comics more then the IDW stuff to be honest.

Why do you enjoy them more? What could IDW learn from these comics?

I am entertained by these comics, but IDW I find to be lacking in Fun. When they first started doing them, they had all these different series and mini series and flashback series, and it was confusing, and hard to follow. I stopped buying them.

Every so often I will pick up a book and look over it or even read the whole thing int he shop, and I still find myself not entertained. To me, that is the purpose of a comic book, to entertain.

I know I don't speak for other people, but like I said, I just don't find myself entertained by IDW transformerverse stuff especially not with that cover price. I've considered picking up the collections to try again.

I just started watching the G1 series since I got the newest collection set, and even the worst of the episodes is still more entertaining the the IDW comics.

So basically like I said, the Japanese Comics are more entertaining to me. If they put these out in English in a graphic novel collection, I would buy it in a heartbeat and laugh my butt off reading it and rereading it.

I understand that. There needs to be some sort of accessibility. It's like how some indie/mobile games feel more like games than ultra serious AAA games, right? That said, I still like gritty, serious media too.

Okay, at least this new online comic isn't pornographic like the Octane comic was.

Looks to be advertising all the recent reissues, plus showing how White Lune switches over to being the Targetmaster partner of Blurr.

ZeroWolf wrote:Who's the cat girl? I'm somewhat familiar with the Japanese transformers but I don't recognise her at all.

That's White Lune, sister of White Leo. She's a new character created just for this series, first introduced back in Doublecross's comic and the prologue comic that led into it. She uses the Masterforce to don the Haywire Targetmaster armor, with this comic showing how she joins up with Blurr as his Targetmaster partner after having been first partnered with Doublecross.

Sabrblade wrote:Okay, at least this new online comic isn't pornographic like the Octane comic was.

Looks to be advertising all the recent reissues, plus showing how White Lune switches over to being the Targetmaster partner of Blurr.

ZeroWolf wrote:Who's the cat girl? I'm somewhat familiar with the Japanese transformers but I don't recognise her at all.

That's White Lune, sister of White Leo. She's a new character created just for this series, first introduced back in Doublecross's comic and the prologue comic that led into it. She uses the Masterforce to don the Haywire Targetmaster armor, with this comic showing how she joins up with Blurr as his Targetmaster partner after having been first partnered with Doublecross.

Thanks sabrblade

I only find elements of the manga problematic as they seem completely out of place compared to the zany world that legends has created for itself. Take that stuff out and you're left with a very different but light hearted take on tfs.

Though what will happen with all this in the end anyway? Once, takara begin releasing power of the primes stuff that is as it's my understanding that legends will end.

ZeroWolf wrote:Though what will happen with all this in the end anyway? Once, takara begin releasing power of the primes stuff that is as it's my understanding that legends will end.

I hope it ends with everyone non-native to the Legends World all getting sent back to their native worlds and time periods. Metroplex especially since he's gotta go back to the G1 World in order to be present for his appearance in the Unite Warriors Offshots for the Aerialbots and Stunticons, which are chronologically set after Metroplex's return home according to the author.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Okay, at least this new online comic isn't pornographic like the Octane comic was.

Looks to be advertising all the recent reissues, plus showing how White Lune switches over to being the Targetmaster partner of Blurr.

ZeroWolf wrote:Who's the cat girl? I'm somewhat familiar with the Japanese transformers but I don't recognise her at all.

That's White Lune, sister of White Leo. She's a new character created just for this series, first introduced back in Doublecross's comic and the prologue comic that led into it. She uses the Masterforce to don the Haywire Targetmaster armor, with this comic showing how she joins up with Blurr as his Targetmaster partner after having been first partnered with Doublecross.

Thanks sabrblade

I only find elements of the manga problematic as they seem completely out of place compared to the zany world that legends has created for itself. Take that stuff out and you're left with a very different but light hearted take on tfs.

Though what will happen with all this in the end anyway? Once, takara begin releasing power of the primes stuff that is as it's my understanding that legends will end.

I agree. It does seem to be "tacked on". It's over thing to have the gag once (as fan service to the original Japanese shows, which has drunken dances, girls getting sexualized, etc), but it seems to be repeated every time. I'm surprised that there haven't been more drunk TFs in the comic, to bed honest.

Also, this comic finally confirms Sue's last name to be "Faireborn", just like her mother.

I'm not 100% sure on this, so don't quote me on anything.

Pretty sure this is a great example of culture clash here. Transformers is seen as a kids thing in Japan as much as it is in the west. I see a lot of western cartoons showing some form of nudity for comedic purposes. When a male characters' clothes get ripped away, leaving them pants-less except for some tighty-whities, or boxers, or even a naked rear end. Kids laugh at it, parent's think it's amusing, no one gets offended. When we see things like this coming from Japan and it's a female who's clothes get ripped away, suddenly it's offensive.

They're cartoons/comics. Don't get so bent up over it.

Emerje wrote:And suddenly thousands of Transformers fans have been exposed to the world of Japanese gravure modeling. It's about as much porn as a girl twerking in any given rap video and just as mainstream. Think of it like Playboy with (skimpy) clothes on, you can buy the stuff just about anywhere that sells magazines.

North America has the same thing. Its called Glamour Modelling and you can find it in magazines like Maxim, Summum and others depending on your area. They are sold in any convenience store that has magazines. They are simply men's magazines and north america has its own glamour modeling icons. So nothing really new but definitely not the same as a rap video. In a rap video, the main part of it is the music/song. The singer is what sells the video (whether they are present in it or not), but in glamour modelling its all about the woman. She is on the front cover. So its different. And while a 10 year old can watch MTV, they cant buy a men's magazine.

I always think of these comics when someone pops up and cries that transformers are toys and the target audience is kids, not older collectors. Yeah right...

Rated X wrote:I always think of these comics when someone pops up and cries that transformers are toys and the target audience is kids, not older collectors. Yeah right...

Different markets. In Japan, only toys backed by a concurrent media are aged 5 and up (like movie toys for example) while toys about G1 lines like MP and Legends are 15 and up. But I dont think that has anything to do with the toys. Its more that Japan thinks toys based on g1 characters wont sell to kids so why bother. More of a marketting thing than about who can actually play with them. And they make more movie toys, which are targetted at kids (looking at age range). Plus Japan is a smidge in terms of global transformers sales.

And none of this means Hasbro isnt selling to kids.

Hasbro has said that most of their sales come from parents buying toys for their kids. RID made most money in 2016, not Combiner Wars/Titans Return. They were quoted saying that. You have no actual evidence to say that Transformers toys are made first and foremost for adults.

william-james88 wrote:

Emerje wrote:And suddenly thousands of Transformers fans have been exposed to the world of Japanese gravure modeling. It's about as much porn as a girl twerking in any given rap video and just as mainstream. Think of it like Playboy with (skimpy) clothes on, you can buy the stuff just about anywhere that sells magazines.

North America has the same thing. Its called Glamour Modelling and you can find it in magazines like Maxim, Summum and others depending on your area. They are sold in any convenience store that has magazines. They are simply men's magazines and north america has its own glamour modeling icons. So nothing really new but definitely not the same as a rap video. In a rap video, the main part of it is the music/song. The singer is what sells the video (whether they are present in it or not), but in glamour modelling its all about the woman. She is on the front cover. So its different. And while a 10 year old can watch MTV, they cant buy a men's magazine.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the music video thing. I think Emerje had it exactly right, music videos are a good comparison to these comics for the very reasons you said they weren't. In a music video the main draw is the artist and the explicit content just happens to be in it. That's the same as these comics. The main draw is there fact that they're Transformers comics and the (arguably) explicit content just happens to be in it.

"Courtesy of fellow Seibertronian Cyberpath, we have news of another instalment in the unnecessary continuation of the Takara Tomy Transformers Legends manga, as uploaded online to their website, with more unnecessary depictions of female characters, and even further unnecessary interactions with said characters after the introduction of the LG57 Octone/Octane chapter."

Okay, like, I get that you're not a huge fan of the manga and that's fine - but that's a little unprofessional for a news site, aint it?

ToaChronix wrote:

"Courtesy of fellow Seibertronian Cyberpath, we have news of another instalment in the unnecessary continuation of the Takara Tomy Transformers Legends manga, as uploaded online to their website, with more unnecessary depictions of female characters, and even further unnecessary interactions with said characters after the introduction of the LG57 Octone/Octane chapter."

Okay, like, I get that you're not a huge fan of the manga and that's fine - but that's a little unprofessional for a news site, aint it?

oh no I'll have to hand in my professional news site card

Va'al wrote:

ToaChronix wrote:

"Courtesy of fellow Seibertronian Cyberpath, we have news of another instalment in the unnecessary continuation of the Takara Tomy Transformers Legends manga, as uploaded online to their website, with more unnecessary depictions of female characters, and even further unnecessary interactions with said characters after the introduction of the LG57 Octone/Octane chapter."

Okay, like, I get that you're not a huge fan of the manga and that's fine - but that's a little unprofessional for a news site, aint it?

oh no I'll have to hand in my professional news site card

It would appear so.

*Revokes Va'al's professional news site card*

william-james88 wrote:

Rated X wrote:I always think of these comics when someone pops up and cries that transformers are toys and the target audience is kids, not older collectors. Yeah right...

Different markets. In Japan, only toys backed by a concurrent media are aged 5 and up (like movie toys for example) while toys about G1 lines like MP and Legends are 15 and up. But I dont think that has anything to do with the toys. Its more that Japan thinks toys based on g1 characters wont sell to kids so why bother. More of a marketting thing than about who can actually play with them. And they make more movie toys, which are targetted at kids (looking at age range). Plus Japan is a smidge in terms of global transformers sales.

And none of this means Hasbro isnt selling to kids.

Hasbro has said that most of their sales come from parents buying toys for their kids. RID made most money in 2016, not Combiner Wars/Titans Return. They were quoted saying that. You have no actual evidence to say that Transformers toys are made first and foremost for adults.

Last time I checked, I didnt have to fill out a survey with my age to buy a toy....online or in retail. Mr. Hasbro wasnt waiting at the door with a notepad to see who bought his goods. And I hope theyre not using credit card personal information to make those judgements because I might like to have a word with my bank. I really dont believe Hasbro has a way of gauging the ages of their customers. How do you tell the difference between a parent and an adult collector? (sterotypes aside) As far as I see, to Hasbro a unit sold is a unit sold. Who counts the tens of thousands of MISB figures scalpers have collecting dust on ebay for crazy prices that nobodys buying? As far as Hasbro is concerned, those units have already been sold and some kid is "playing" with them. After years and years of aging G1 collectors bullying Hasbro on forums and Botcon pannels, they are finally giving us what we want. I think the target is definitely older folks these days. Hasbro wont admit it, but Thrilling 30s, combiner wars, titans return, and POTP are all signs that theyre catering to adults and kind of hoping kids roll with it. Unless you believe kids are really interested in watching youtube videos of 30 year old cartoons. Sure theres RID and movie toys. Theyre warming shelves at your local walmart. Dont believe everything Hasbro writes in their reports. And back on topic, I can only say that these comics (I refuse to call them magnas) are a sign that the USA has become way too politically correct. If the Japanese dont mind this kind of stuff, maybe we shouldnt either.

Rated X wrote: If the Japanese dont mind this kind of stuff, maybe we shouldnt either.

The most vocal person here against these happens to be Japanese.

steals_your_goats wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Emerje wrote:And suddenly thousands of Transformers fans have been exposed to the world of Japanese gravure modeling. It's about as much porn as a girl twerking in any given rap video and just as mainstream. Think of it like Playboy with (skimpy) clothes on, you can buy the stuff just about anywhere that sells magazines.

North America has the same thing. Its called Glamour Modelling and you can find it in magazines like Maxim, Summum and others depending on your area. They are sold in any convenience store that has magazines. They are simply men's magazines and north america has its own glamour modeling icons. So nothing really new but definitely not the same as a rap video. In a rap video, the main part of it is the music/song. The singer is what sells the video (whether they are present in it or not), but in glamour modelling its all about the woman. She is on the front cover. So its different. And while a 10 year old can watch MTV, they cant buy a men's magazine.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the music video thing. I think Emerje had it exactly right, music videos are a good comparison to these comics for the very reasons you said they weren't. In a music video the main draw is the artist and the explicit content just happens to be in it. That's the same as these comics. The main draw is there fact that they're Transformers comics and the (arguably) explicit content just happens to be in it.

I did not say these comics are dissimilar to rap videos. I said Gravure_idols/ glamour magazines are disimilar to rap videos. Emerje was doing a comparison between gravue idols and girls twirking in rap videos. And this is what I was responding to. Not the comics.

william-james88 wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Emerje wrote:And suddenly thousands of Transformers fans have been exposed to the world of Japanese gravure modeling. It's about as much porn as a girl twerking in any given rap video and just as mainstream. Think of it like Playboy with (skimpy) clothes on, you can buy the stuff just about anywhere that sells magazines.

North America has the same thing. Its called Glamour Modelling and you can find it in magazines like Maxim, Summum and others depending on your area. They are sold in any convenience store that has magazines. They are simply men's magazines and north america has its own glamour modeling icons. So nothing really new but definitely not the same as a rap video. In a rap video, the main part of it is the music/song. The singer is what sells the video (whether they are present in it or not), but in glamour modelling its all about the woman. She is on the front cover. So its different. And while a 10 year old can watch MTV, they cant buy a men's magazine.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the music video thing. I think Emerje had it exactly right, music videos are a good comparison to these comics for the very reasons you said they weren't. In a music video the main draw is the artist and the explicit content just happens to be in it. That's the same as these comics. The main draw is there fact that they're Transformers comics and the (arguably) explicit content just happens to be in it.

I did not say these comics are dissimilar to rap videos. I said Gravure_idols/ glamour magazines are disimilar to rap videos. Emerje was doing a comparison between gravue idols and girls twirking in rap videos. And this is what I was responding to. Not the comics.

Ah my mistake sorry.

william-james88 wrote:

Rated X wrote: If the Japanese dont mind this kind of stuff, maybe we shouldnt either.

The most vocal person here against these happens to be Japanese.

He's not Japanese he just lives there.

william-james88 wrote:

Rated X wrote: If the Japanese dont mind this kind of stuff, maybe we shouldnt either.

The most vocal person here against these happens to be a Japanese person who can read English and visits American based websites.

Here I fixed it for you.

Is he really speaking on behalf of anyone other than himself and maybe a few friends from the internet?

OK, I think some objectivity needs to be said here;

First off, can mods please crack down on the 'Sikomofo' stuff. Nobody here is allowed to insult Micheal Bay, Hasbro staff, or Hasbro itself, so let's get ourselves in check please.

I'm far more upset by people being allowed to flame and personally insult a fellow human being because of some drawings, than the presence of said drawings.

And primal-x convoy, what that 'Chilean girl' chooses to do with her own toys is her business. You of course don't have to be around it, but she isn't harming anyone-you on the other hand are throwing personal insults around for what appear to be nothing but luls and bravado and an inability to get over yourself. Sakamoto's approach to these comics may not be your taste (I'm a tad surprised about it myself) but you and your attitude towards an actual person (Sakamoto) are far more worrying to me.

I do wish people would stop being so scared of the human body, and their own attraction to it. But yes, it feels out of place in TF media. It does.
These are for the Japanese market. If enough Japanese fans are vocal about their dislike, and do so in the RIGHT places, ie to Takara or indeed Sakamoto himself, then fair play. But grandstanding on forums whilst believing you are taking the whole world by storm is annoying.
I'd have to ask that we just grow up a bit.

So happy for the very necessary continuation of Takara's Transformers Legends comics. This is a great one too, love seeing all the Legends Autobot targetmasters together. Awesome how they incorporated Battle Beasts into it as well, they were cool and the Headmaster episode with them one of my favs.

hinomars19 wrote:OK, I think some objectivity needs to be said here;

First off, can mods please crack down on the 'Sikomofo' stuff. Nobody here is allowed to insult Micheal Bay, Hasbro staff, or Hasbro itself, so let's get ourselves in check please.

I'm far more upset by people being allowed to flame and personally insult a fellow human being because of some drawings, than the presence of said drawings.

And primal-x convoy, what that 'Chilean girl' chooses to do with her own toys is her business. You of course don't have to be around it, but she isn't harming anyone-you on the other hand are throwing personal insults around for what appear to be nothing but luls and bravado and an inability to get over yourself. Sakamoto's approach to these comics may not be your taste (I'm a tad surprised about it myself) but you and your attitude towards an actual person (Sakamoto) are far more worrying to me.

I do wish people would stop being so scared of the human body, and their own attraction to it. But yes, it feels out of place in TF media. It does.
These are for the Japanese market. If enough Japanese fans are vocal about their dislike, and do so in the RIGHT places, ie to Takara or indeed Sakamoto himself, then fair play. But grandstanding on forums whilst believing you are taking the whole world by storm is annoying.
I'd have to ask that we just grow up a bit.

hinomars19 wrote:OK, I think some objectivity needs to be said here;

First off, can mods please crack down on the 'Sikomofo' stuff. Nobody here is allowed to insult Micheal Bay, Hasbro staff, or Hasbro itself, so let's get ourselves in check please.

On this, I agree.

Warnings going forward on this. Sakamoto is a creator who is very decent to fans at conventions and I'm not going to tolerate it any further.

(reading some more of this thread to see if I need to do anything...and by God...if it's falling to me to do something... )

For people who might be asking 'who's this Counterpunch guy' - he's also a Seibertron admin.
His words count as much as Burn's. Warnings will happen.

Counterpunch wrote:

hinomars19 wrote:OK, I think some objectivity needs to be said here;

First off, can mods please crack down on the 'Sikomofo' stuff. Nobody here is allowed to insult Micheal Bay, Hasbro staff, or Hasbro itself, so let's get ourselves in check please.

On this, I agree.

Warnings going forward on this. Sakamoto is a creator who is very decent to fans at conventions and I'm not going to tolerate it any further.

(reading some more of this thread to see if I need to do anything...and by God...if it's falling to me to do something... )

Okay so disclaimer, I had no clue "Sikomofo" wasn't his actual name and was just a crude nickname. In hindsight the obviousness punches me in the face, but I wouldn't have partook in that discussion had I known. My previous comment has been edited, and I am mortified.

Warnings issues.

Thread sanitized...kind of.

Discussion left as in-tact as I could.

Stay on-topic regarding the comic. Save the over-generalized cultural discussion and speaking for entire ethno-national people for somewhere that is very much not here.

As a delightful reminder to all, our forums feature an IGNORE function where people who you find to be routinely annoying can be confined to the waste bin of your ever-loving digital journal of all things Transformers. (In short, you'll no longer see their stupid posts.)

Damn....what did I miss?

Suggestion here....

Can the guy (or guys) who speak Japanese translate the damn comic ?

Weather your for against this type of comic (Im all for it) not knowing what they are saying leaves us with nothing to discuss but the artwork.

Shout outs to Counterpunch...we go way back

Rated X wrote:Damn....what did I miss?

Suggestion here....

Can the guy (or guys) who speak Japanese translate the damn comic ?

Weather your for against this type of comic (Im all for it) not knowing what they are saying leaves us with nothing to discuss but the artwork.

Shout outs to Counterpunch...we go way back

Tfwiki does a synopsis for each issue. Sabrblade posts then here when they're available

Rated X wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Rated X wrote:I always think of these comics when someone pops up and cries that transformers are toys and the target audience is kids, not older collectors. Yeah right...

Different markets. In Japan, only toys backed by a concurrent media are aged 5 and up (like movie toys for example) while toys about G1 lines like MP and Legends are 15 and up. But I dont think that has anything to do with the toys. Its more that Japan thinks toys based on g1 characters wont sell to kids so why bother. More of a marketting thing than about who can actually play with them. And they make more movie toys, which are targetted at kids (looking at age range). Plus Japan is a smidge in terms of global transformers sales.

And none of this means Hasbro isnt selling to kids.

Hasbro has said that most of their sales come from parents buying toys for their kids. RID made most money in 2016, not Combiner Wars/Titans Return. They were quoted saying that. You have no actual evidence to say that Transformers toys are made first and foremost for adults.

Last time I checked, I didnt have to fill out a survey with my age to buy a toy....online or in retail. Mr. Hasbro wasnt waiting at the door with a notepad to see who bought his goods. And I hope theyre not using credit card personal information to make those judgements because I might like to have a word with my bank. I really dont believe Hasbro has a way of gauging the ages of their customers. How do you tell the difference between a parent and an adult collector? (sterotypes aside) As far as I see, to Hasbro a unit sold is a unit sold. Who counts the tens of thousands of MISB figures scalpers have collecting dust on ebay for crazy prices that nobodys buying? As far as Hasbro is concerned, those units have already been sold and some kid is "playing" with them. After years and years of aging G1 collectors bullying Hasbro on forums and Botcon pannels, they are finally giving us what we want. I think the target is definitely older folks these days. Hasbro wont admit it, but Thrilling 30s, combiner wars, titans return, and POTP are all signs that theyre catering to adults and kind of hoping kids roll with it. Unless you believe kids are really interested in watching youtube videos of 30 year old cartoons. Sure theres RID and movie toys. Theyre warming shelves at your local walmart. Dont believe everything Hasbro writes in their reports. And back on topic, I can only say that these comics (I refuse to call them magnas) are a sign that the USA has become way too politically correct. If the Japanese dont mind this kind of stuff, maybe we shouldnt either.

Like I've said before, the Japanese I've spoken with DO mind stuff like this. Japan isn't as different or strange as you might think. Saying that Japan is fine with such media is like saying the USA is fine with guns. It's not that simple and too generalising.

Also, I'm not American.

...I miss all the fun when I sleep.

primalxconvoy wrote:

Rated X wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Rated X wrote:I always think of these comics when someone pops up and cries that transformers are toys and the target audience is kids, not older collectors. Yeah right...

Different markets. In Japan, only toys backed by a concurrent media are aged 5 and up (like movie toys for example) while toys about G1 lines like MP and Legends are 15 and up. But I dont think that has anything to do with the toys. Its more that Japan thinks toys based on g1 characters wont sell to kids so why bother. More of a marketting thing than about who can actually play with them. And they make more movie toys, which are targetted at kids (looking at age range). Plus Japan is a smidge in terms of global transformers sales.

And none of this means Hasbro isnt selling to kids.

Hasbro has said that most of their sales come from parents buying toys for their kids. RID made most money in 2016, not Combiner Wars/Titans Return. They were quoted saying that. You have no actual evidence to say that Transformers toys are made first and foremost for adults.

Last time I checked, I didnt have to fill out a survey with my age to buy a toy....online or in retail. Mr. Hasbro wasnt waiting at the door with a notepad to see who bought his goods. And I hope theyre not using credit card personal information to make those judgements because I might like to have a word with my bank. I really dont believe Hasbro has a way of gauging the ages of their customers. How do you tell the difference between a parent and an adult collector? (sterotypes aside) As far as I see, to Hasbro a unit sold is a unit sold. Who counts the tens of thousands of MISB figures scalpers have collecting dust on ebay for crazy prices that nobodys buying? As far as Hasbro is concerned, those units have already been sold and some kid is "playing" with them. After years and years of aging G1 collectors bullying Hasbro on forums and Botcon pannels, they are finally giving us what we want. I think the target is definitely older folks these days. Hasbro wont admit it, but Thrilling 30s, combiner wars, titans return, and POTP are all signs that theyre catering to adults and kind of hoping kids roll with it. Unless you believe kids are really interested in watching youtube videos of 30 year old cartoons. Sure theres RID and movie toys. Theyre warming shelves at your local walmart. Dont believe everything Hasbro writes in their reports. And back on topic, I can only say that these comics (I refuse to call them magnas) are a sign that the USA has become way too politically correct. If the Japanese dont mind this kind of stuff, maybe we shouldnt either.

Like I've said before, the Japanese I've spoken with DO mind stuff like this. Japan isn't as different or strange as you might think. Saying that Japan is fine with such media is like saying the USA is fine with guns. It's not that simple and too generalising.

Well actually the USA is very fine with guns. The NRA buys politicians. What the USA isnt fine with is a transformable robot that turns into a gun. Thats a bad bad bad bad thing in the USA.

And unless youve talked to Japanese people all over the country by the hundreds youre "research" is just as much a generalization as any of ours. I hope you dont walk around with a Takara comic in your pocket asking random strangers what they think of it. That would be creepy (no offense) But obviously the people you talk to arent having any impact on Takaras sales. At the end of the day people speak with their wallets. And judging by the continuing comics it looks like the pervs are winning.

Rated X wrote:Well actually the USA is very fine with guns. The NRA buys politicians. What the USA isnt fine with is a transformable robot that turns into a gun. Thats a bad bad bad bad thing in the USA.

No. It's not correct to say America is fine with guns. That would suggest everyone is fine about them and that's not true. It would be ignorant and inaccurate to suggest that all Americans like guns. It's a polarising issue in the usa and so too is the type of content in these comics.

...And unless youve talked to Japanese people all over the country by the hundreds youre "research" is just as much a generalization as any of ours.

Like I've stated before, I acknowledge that my conversations with Japanese people are not conclusive, but until I see any evidence from you or anyone else, I'd say that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

I actually live here, speak some of the language, and have had similar conversations with many people over my years in Japan. I'd say that gave me a more accurate insight towards Japanese culture than those who have not lived in Japan.

I hope you dont walk around with a Takara comic asking random strangers what they think of it. That would be creepy (no offense)...

Actually, I did use the comics to gauge reactions from some Japanese people I know. I did so without telling them my views but I told them the comics came with Transformers toys, for context.

As for asking Japanese strangers what they think about things like this, there is someone who does just that:

- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZahxIvEBw74

- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvQKGaKItE

- https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=163s&v=jSbp_4azWlo

- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqxH6hdOUw

(The views in these videos may not actually reflect my own, but it's interesting to see more opinions from Japanese people, right?)

But obviously the people you talk to arent having any impact on Takaras sales. At the end of the day people speak with their wallets. And judging by the continuing comics it looks like the pervs are winning.

Where is your evidence to support this? Do you have sales figures? Just because things are available to sell doesn't mean that they are selling well. Why has Takara moved from selling TFs in shops, to a more online, collector orientated aimed at the 15+ market? Could it be due to the shrinking population and the less popular position Transformers have in Japan compared to other brands? Why has Takara not continued this supposedly popular line for POTP? Why have MP figures become more expensive? Is it partly due to a shrinking market and increased price to produce them?


NOTE: - Edited for clarity and to not double post.

Guys, knock if off for a little bit. Even better, keep it strictly about the comics for a little while, lets ease of the discussion about who it's aimed at, whether it's acceptable or not etc etc, because staff are getting tired of having to deal with reported posts.

If you can't do that, then we have two choices.
• The thread gets temporarily locked.
• Some of you get a temporary time out.

Burn wrote:Guys, knock if off for a little bit. Even better, keep it strictly about the comics for a little while, lets ease of the discussion about who it's aimed at, whether it's acceptable or not etc etc, because staff are getting tired of having to deal with reported posts.

If you can't do that, then we have two choices.
• The thread gets temporarily locked.
• Some of you get a temporary time out.

Burn, you've got a good point there. I'll ease up a bit. However, it's inevitable that this will be discussed, as it's continually included in these comics. If it wasn't included, then there would be less discussion about it and more focus on other aspects of it.