Sneak Peek - IDW Transformers: Sins of the Wreckers #5 iTunes Preview

So this is still going on huh?
I kinda thought they cancelled it due to the fact that it stunk so bad.

LE0KING wrote:So this is still going on huh? >:oP
I kinda thought they cancelled it due to the fact that it stunk so bad.

:P Wrong on both counts, mate.

Roche was having some personal things he needed to attend to, so the schedule was really messed up. but IDW was really good with him and still let the whole thing happen. And I'm glad we're finally getting the conclusion. I've been enjoying the series

RevTibe wrote:

LE0KING wrote:So this is still going on huh?
I kinda thought they cancelled it due to the fact that it stunk so bad.

:P Wrong on both counts, mate.

Yeah, I know most don't share my opinions on this series. And personally I hate it when people just get on here to complain, but I still gotta say; this comic is just disappointing.
I feel like he dumbed down everyone's personality, making them all the same: snarky, sarcastic, angry, and homicidal.
The dialog doesn't flow because no one is building off of what anyone else is saying. It's like they're having a conversation but don't know what the topic is. It's just sarcastic one-liner after sarcastic one-liner.
He just doesn't do the dialog well. There was a whole scene between carnavac and impactor where he explained their motives and I still have no idea why they are on earth or what they want.
Not to mention I hate when he has them start to say something only for them to stop and start the sentence over. I know why he does this but it's annoying.

The art is good though, and some of the basic concepts are cool. It just boils down to not liking the way he makes the characters interact with each other.

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to become a rant.

LE0KING wrote:

RevTibe wrote:

LE0KING wrote:So this is still going on huh?
I kinda thought they cancelled it due to the fact that it stunk so bad.

:P Wrong on both counts, mate.

Yeah, I know most don't share my opinions on this series. And personally I hate it when people just get on here to complain, but I still gotta say; this comic is just disappointing.
I feel like he dumbed down everyone's personality, making them all the same: snarky, sarcastic, angry, and homicidal.
The dialog doesn't flow because no one is building off of what anyone else is saying. It's like they're having a conversation but don't know what the topic is. It's just sarcastic one-liner after sarcastic one-liner.
He just doesn't do the dialog well. There was a whole scene between carnavac and impactor where he explained their motives and I still have no idea why they are on earth or what they want.
Not to mention I hate when he has them start to say something only for them to stop and start the sentence over. I know why he does this but it's annoying.

The art is good though, and some of the basic concepts are cool. It just boils down to not liking the way he makes the characters interact with each other.

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to become a rant.

I kind of agree, actually. I don't dislike this series that much, but it isn't the most satisfying story I've ever read. Roche could definitely salvage the story for me right here at the end, but it seems like there's a lot of ground left to cover to wrap everything up in a satisfying way and this would have to be an amazing last issue. And I agree that the dialogue has fallen flat at times.

It's funny how problems in various media tend to show up in groups. I usually notice it with movies, but I'm definitely seeing trends in all of the Transformers comics right now in terms of dialogue seeming wonky, characters not feeling consistent, and lackluster endings to arcs. It just seems baffling when I stop to consider how many people are involved in making these things that they all struggle with the same things. Obviously, I can't demand a perfect product every time, but it seems like there should be a wider range of mistakes to make.

Still, this series has taken Tarantulas and made him an even more uncomfortable, creepy character for me, and I can always be grateful to it for that.

The first final chapter coming from IDW Publishing this week is for the second Wreckers mini-series: find below the full preview of Transformers: Sins of the Wreckers #5 (because Newsarama), delayed yet again but finally here, by the mind and hands of Nick Roche and Josh Burcham. Of course, we will have a review ready for you on release day, so head back to Seibertron.com then!

Transformers: Sins of the Wreckers #5 (of 5)
Nick Roche (w & a & c)
THIS IS THE END! Will PROWL get his comeuppance? Will TARANTULAS conquer all? Will any of the WRECKERS survive? It’s wreck and rule one last time, with everything on the line!
FC • 32 pages • $3.99

Bullet points:
Variant cover by Guido Guidi!

Dear IDW,

Please give EJ more work. He deserves it.

You know it's a pity that the follow up to lsotw just hasn't matched the first book. Personally I think the choice of villains as beast wars villains was a bad choice. Overlord and a plethora of cons in the first was always going to be hard to top but I feel the beasts are so out of place it's distracting.

I would have went nearly an Armada route, hot shot in with flame throwers keep tidal wave and have sideways be the villain.

The presence of arcee bothers me. It seems in all idw books a fembot is crammed in and down the throat of the reader. Could have really done without her because other than Michael bay nobody is killing a fembot engaged in a war zone.

Good to see EJ Su back, if only for a cover. Now if we could just get rid of Ramondelli.... Yep, I went there again.

Prowl4@ Arcee is a strong fighter who can hold her own against Galvatron, if their was someone I wanted in a battlezone then it would be her.

Also Sideways would only really work if Unicron was involved, and IDW are holding back on him.

ZeroWolf wrote:Prowl4@ Arcee is a strong fighter who can hold her own against Galvatron, if their was someone I wanted in a battlezone then it would be her.

Also Sideways would only really work if Unicron was involved, and IDW are holding back on him.

Holding her own was complete nonsense against galvatron. A writer with courage would have gravely injured or killed her. Galvatron would wipe the floor with her.

Sideways doesn't need to exist with Unicron.

Prowl4 wrote:The presence of arcee bothers me. It seems in all idw books a fembot is crammed in and down the throat of the reader.

Can't you see how ridiculous that statement is? If one female TF is being "crammed down your throat", you must be absolutely choking on the male TFs.

Arcee's inclusion is based on her past history with Prowl, the pre-Dark Cybertron Robots In Disguise story. Fitting, since much of SotW is focusing on Prowl's actions/legacy, much of the cast is a mix of Prowl's agents, dupes, and partners.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:The presence of arcee bothers me. It seems in all idw books a fembot is crammed in and down the throat of the reader.

Can't you see how ridiculous that statement is? If one female TF is being "crammed down your throat", you must be absolutely choking on the male TFs.

Arcee's inclusion is based on her past history with Prowl, the pre-Dark Cybertron Robots In Disguise story. Fitting, since much of SotW is focusing on Prowl's actions/legacy, much of the cast is a mix of Prowl's agents, dupes, and partners.

Nah I like the male bots seeing as how they're all different and written with personalities. All of the fembots are the same. There's not one book without them.

Arcee is clearly being used to cram a fembot in. Look at the joke of rid that had her as earth autobot leader that was an utter farce.

You can not be serious. Compare windblade to Nautica, and then Nautica to Arcee, heck look at Nickel! She's the mother hen to the djd! Have you also considered that Arcee is powerful because of her back story? Jihaxus does like messing a lot.

And Sideways has really only ever existed with unicron, especially if you want to go armada themed. The only sideways I can think of that isn't connected was in Revenge of the Fallen, and I can't remember much about him at all given his lack of screen time.

Sideways in Armada was great as he was trying to screw over both the bots and the cons for his true master. Cut him off from ole big horns, and you got doubledealer or a less interesting version of counterpunch.

Speaking of which, where's counterpunch IDW? I'd love to see your take on him.

ZeroWolf wrote:You can not be serious. Compare windblade to Nautica, and then Nautica to Arcee, heck look at Nickel! She's the mother hen to the djd! Have you also considered that Arcee is powerful because of her back story? Jihaxus does like messing a lot.

And Sideways has really only ever existed with unicron, especially if you want to go armada themed. The only sideways I can think of that isn't connected was in Revenge of the Fallen, and I can't remember much about him at all given his lack of screen time.

Sideways in Armada was great as he was trying to screw over both the bots and the cons for his true master. Cut him off from ole big horns, and you got doubledealer or a less interesting version of counterpunch.

Speaking of which, where's counterpunch IDW? I'd love to see your take on him.

You're getting close to fan fiction on here with sideway. In armada it's HEAVILY suggested he was part of Unicron. He wasn't exactly an individual but Unicron himself. Without Unicron sideways wouldn't exist and technically ceased to exist by the end of armada when Unicron was "destroyed".

Aside from revenge of he fallen, here was transformers: Cybertron sideways and he was not the same character as in armada. Cybertron was a sloppy dub of galaxy force and Unicron had nothing to do with galaxy force. Sideways along with sound wave were the surviving members of Plant X and we're playing both sides to benefite their goals.

I had forgotten about cybertron, but didn't the Japanese later go back and say that Galaxy Force was connected to the others? I could of sworn that I read that somewhere and they blamed the black hole as to why the timelines messed up...Then again they did find a way to Turn A Bang everything into the G1 timeline at one point.

My point still stands though about Armada Sideways, without Unicron he's nothing...After y what you pointed out Randomhero, quite literally.

ZeroWolf wrote:You can not be serious. Compare windblade to Nautica, and then Nautica to Arcee, heck look at Nickel! She's the mother hen to the djd! Have you also considered that Arcee is powerful because of her back story? Jihaxus does like messing a lot.

And Sideways has really only ever existed with unicron, especially if you want to go armada themed. The only sideways I can think of that isn't connected was in Revenge of the Fallen, and I can't remember much about him at all given his lack of screen time.

Sideways in Armada was great as he was trying to screw over both the bots and the cons for his true master. Cut him off from ole big horns, and you got doubledealer or a less interesting version of counterpunch.

Speaking of which, where's counterpunch IDW? I'd love to see your take on him.

All fembot are written the same, snarky attitude, lack of respect for authority, over powered and invulnerable. Nickel is a stain on the did tapestry. Started as a gang of creepy psychos and now they've a cutesy female designed character questioning and bitching to tarn. The same traits are in windblade, aileron, mistress of flame, that horror show Victorian and arcee. They're involved in a war and not one fembot has died.

Sideways would have fit in perfectly with the current toyline. Replace the beasts with headmaster tech you still get the same story and a bigger better reveal. If a psychological route was the one to go we could have had an Armada esque sideways and the reveal would have been removing the headmaster disguising him to show Prowl who he was. The story could have been pretty much the same and let into Titans return far better than the sloppy way mairghread Scott will write it.

Again, I don't see how you you can say they are written the same, and and as for Fembots dying, that's really a strange thing to keep going on about, I mean for one, guy bots outnumber the girls by a large margin, so statistically yeah, the guys will take more of the hits. Look at your list again and count the ones who have been in battle. Nautica isn't looking quite invulnerable with the damage she's suffered. Will she die, probably not but she'll survive cause she's popular, not because of her gender.

Arcee has survived fights cause she can fight with the best of them and as Random hero pointed out worked with prowl before Dark Cybertron, being a lethal assassin.

The biggest thing however is that the greatest killer is: plot. If the plot decries someone to die then they will, if not then that's that.

Also they couldn't of used this as a tie in for titans returns. It's only because of delays that it's out now. When the series was planned out Titans Returns and the whoke Revolution event were still being talked about. Sentinel has already been chosen as the poster boy of Titans Return, and he's got more of a claim then Sideways has (he may of been the only headmaster in armada but he wasn't the only one in the toyline) as he was the first non optimus prime seen in IDW within the pages of Megatron Origins.

Prowl4 wrote:Nah I like the male bots seeing as how they're all different and written with personalities. All of the fembots are the same. There's not one book without them.

Prowl4 wrote:All fembot are written the same, snarky attitude, lack of respect for authority, over powered and invulnerable. Nickel is a stain on the did tapestry. Started as a gang of creepy psychos and now they've a cutesy female designed character questioning and bitching to tarn. The same traits are in windblade, aileron, mistress of flame, that horror show Victorian and arcee. They're involved in a war and not one fembot has died.

The sad thing is, I really do love discussions that aptly challenge my own thoughts and opinions, but a good deal of what you're... depositing here is objectively false. To view characters as differing as Arcee, Nautica, Aileron and Windblade as effectively equivalent is absolutely ridiculous. For instance; Windblade has displayed a talent for both empathy and manipulation - are either of those traits present in the terse, unpredictable Arcee, anxious Nautica or the once naive, now embittered Aileron?

Frankly, the most common theme between the majority of your objections towards current toys, comics and writers is that you seem to have a problem with women being involved in the franchise.

ZeroWolf wrote:You can not be serious. Compare windblade to Nautica, and then Nautica to Arcee, heck look at Nickel! She's the mother hen to the djd! Have you also considered that Arcee is powerful because of her back story? Jihaxus does like messing a lot.

And Sideways has really only ever existed with unicron, especially if you want to go armada themed. The only sideways I can think of that isn't connected was in Revenge of the Fallen, and I can't remember much about him at all given his lack of screen time.

Sideways in Armada was great as he was trying to screw over both the bots and the cons for his true master. Cut him off from ole big horns, and you got doubledealer or a less interesting version of counterpunch.

Speaking of which, where's counterpunch IDW? I'd love to see your take on him.

All fembot are written the same, snarky attitude, lack of respect for authority, over powered and invulnerable. Nickel is a stain on the did tapestry. Started as a gang of creepy psychos and now they've a cutesy female designed character questioning and bitching to tarn. The same traits are in windblade, aileron, mistress of flame, that horror show Victorian and arcee. They're involved in a war and not one fembot has died.

Sideways would have fit in perfectly with the current toyline. Replace the beasts with headmaster tech you still get the same story and a bigger better reveal. If a psychological route was the one to go we could have had an Armada esque sideways and the reveal would have been removing the headmaster disguising him to show Prowl who he was. The story could have been pretty much the same and let into Titans return far better than the sloppy way mairghread Scott will write it.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Nah I like the male bots seeing as how they're all different and written with personalities. All of the fembots are the same. There's not one book without them.

Prowl4 wrote:All fembot are written the same, snarky attitude, lack of respect for authority, over powered and invulnerable. Nickel is a stain on the did tapestry. Started as a gang of creepy psychos and now they've a cutesy female designed character questioning and bitching to tarn. The same traits are in windblade, aileron, mistress of flame, that horror show Victorian and arcee. They're involved in a war and not one fembot has died.

The sad thing is, I really do love discussions that aptly challenge my own thoughts and opinions, but a good deal of what you're... depositing here is objectively false. To view characters as differing as Arcee, Nautica, Aileron and Windblade as effectively equivalent is absolutely ridiculous. For instance; Windblade has displayed a talent for both empathy and manipulation - are either of those traits present in the terse, unpredictable Arcee, anxious Nautica or the once naive, now embittered Aileron?

Frankly, the most common theme between the majority of your objections towards current toys, comics and writers is that you seem to have a problem with women being involved in the franchise.

Thank you Rev, for the last observation in particular, I had noticed it but I didn't feel comfortable calling it out, as I didn't know how Prowl4 would react.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Nah I like the male bots seeing as how they're all different and written with personalities. All of the fembots are the same. There's not one book without them.

Prowl4 wrote:All fembot are written the same, snarky attitude, lack of respect for authority, over powered and invulnerable. Nickel is a stain on the did tapestry. Started as a gang of creepy psychos and now they've a cutesy female designed character questioning and bitching to tarn. The same traits are in windblade, aileron, mistress of flame, that horror show Victorian and arcee. They're involved in a war and not one fembot has died.

The sad thing is, I really do love discussions that aptly challenge my own thoughts and opinions, but a good deal of what you're... depositing here is objectively false. To view characters as differing as Arcee, Nautica, Aileron and Windblade as effectively equivalent is absolutely ridiculous. For instance; Windblade has displayed a talent for both empathy and manipulation - are either of those traits present in the terse, unpredictable Arcee, anxious Nautica or the once naive, now embittered Aileron?

Frankly, the most common theme between the majority of your objections towards current toys, comics and writers is that you seem to have a problem with women being involved in the franchise.

They are all the same with the same traits I listed if you read what I said. Injured yes but has one even died even a throwaway fembot? No.

I don't like the fembots the way they're portrayed so what?

Mairghread Scott is a dreadful writer, Victorian is garbage and the fembots are not suffering loss of life in a war. Valid points all of them. If you think I don't criticize male writers, characters and toys I'm afraid you're deluded.

Prowl4 wrote:They are all the same with the same traits I listed if you read what I said. Injured yes but has one even died even a throwaway fembot? No.

I'm not sure if this is genuine ignorance or willful ignorance. Either way, discussing your myopic view of characterization clearly won't have any benefit.

Many people have tried to explain to you that if female TFs are a smaller fraction of the cast than the male TFs, and haven't been around as long as the male TFs, some of them even less than a year, then of course there aren't going to be major female TF deaths yet. (Have there even been a dozen significant character deaths since female TFs were properly introduced in Dark Cybertron?) If you want to see female TFs die, you should really be pushing for a 50/50 gender split in the comics - much more likely you'll get what you want then.

Prowl4 wrote:Mairghread Scott is a dreadful writer,

My ability to take you seriously in regards to anything regarding Scott was obliterated after your "She's only got the job because she's a woman!!!!!" spiel.

Prowl4 wrote:If you think I don't criticize male writers, characters and toys I'm afraid you're deluded.

I said your distaste for women in the franchise was your "most common theme", not your only theme. After all, who could forget your quote about James Roberts's "disturbing homosexual material"?

Bringing it back to the beginning, Arcee's been skillfully, perhaps even impressively, used in Sins of the Wreckers. SotW really needed to have an issue's downtime for Impactor and the once-comatose Springer - it would've felt a bit rushed/jarring if they showed up, ready and active on the first page. Arcee served to move issue #1's plot so the Wreckers could get their dramatic end-of-issue reveal, and gracefully switched to being a secondary/supporting character following the Wreckers' appearance.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:They are all the same with the same traits I listed if you read what I said. Injured yes but has one even died even a throwaway fembot? No.

I'm not sure if this is genuine ignorance or willful ignorance. Either way, discussing your myopic view of characterization clearly won't have any benefit.

Many people have tried to explain to you that if female TFs are a smaller fraction of the cast than the male TFs, and haven't been around as long as the male TFs, some of them even less than a year, then of course there aren't going to be major female TF deaths yet. (Have there even been a dozen significant character deaths since female TFs were properly introduced in Dark Cybertron?) If you want to see female TFs die, you should really be pushing for a 50/50 gender split in the comics - much more likely you'll get what you want then.

Prowl4 wrote:Mairghread Scott is a dreadful writer,

My ability to take you seriously in regards to anything regarding Scott was obliterated after your "She's only got the job because she's a woman!!!!!" spiel.

Prowl4 wrote:If you think I don't criticize male writers, characters and toys I'm afraid you're deluded.

I said your distaste for women in the franchise was your "most common theme", not your only theme. After all, who could forget your quote about James Roberts's "disturbing homosexual material"?

Bringing it back to the beginning, Arcee's been skillfully, perhaps even impressively, used in Sins of the Wreckers. SotW really needed to have an issue's downtime for Impactor and the once-comatose Springer - it would've felt a bit rushed/jarring if they showed up, ready and active on the first page. Arcee served to move issue #1's plot so the Wreckers could get their dramatic end-of-issue reveal, and gracefully switched to being a secondary/supporting character following the Wreckers' appearance.

They are though prove they aren't.

Mairghread Scott is dreadful and largely in place because if she was removed would cry sexism. She seems the type.

Roberts use of homosexuality between transformers is disturbing, prove it otherwise.

What a silly thing to say that a 50/50 split for female deaths. Cabbage opinion that.

Prowl4 wrote:They are though prove they aren't.

Here, this page of Windblade displays the title character acting empathetically, yet somewhat coercively, towards Waspinator. I'd say this is one of the key aspects of the character - her morality leads her towards compassion/just treatment, yet she is willing to compromise that for a perceived greater good (after all, Waspinator is clearly afraid and unwilling to perform the favor she's persistently requesting).

These are defining qualities of Windblade, and are not present in this form in other female Transformers.

Prowl4 wrote:Mairghread Scott is dreadful and largely in place because if she was removed would cry sexism. She seems the type.

To quote a fellow from this thread; prove it.

Prowl4 wrote:Roberts use of homosexuality between transformers is disturbing, prove it otherwise.

This statement is broken on many levels. "Disturbing" is subjective, and your use of it is indicative of certain... qualities of your character, not the qualities of the comic. If you think that the "homosexual material" is provably disturbing, then perhaps you yourself should provide that proof.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:They are though prove they aren't.

Here, this page of Windblade displays the title character acting empathetically, yet somewhat coercively, toward Waspinator. I'd say this is one of the key aspects of the character - her morality leads her towards compassion/just treatment, yet she is willing to compromise that for a perceived greater good (after all, Waspinator is clearly afraid and unwilling to perform the favor she's persistently requesting).

These are defining qualities of Windblade, and are not present in this form in other female Transformers.

Prowl4 wrote:Mairghread Scott is dreadful and largely in place because if she was removed would cry sexism. She seems the type.

To quote a fellow from this thread; prove it.

Prowl4 wrote:Roberts use of homosexuality between transformers is disturbing, prove it otherwise.

This statement is broken on many levels. "Disturbing" is subjective, and your use of it is indicative of certain... qualities of your character, not the qualities of the comic. If you think that the "homosexual material" is provably disturbing, then perhaps you yourself should provide that proof.

One page of the terrible windblade comic doesn't make up for her lack of respect for authority shown to starscream throughout her introduction better luck next time.

Sufficient proof is in the words of mairghread Scott herself through interviews and through her blocking people on Twitter criticising her work. Her writing of rid windblade and strongarm episodes because that's essentially what she does is make the episodes about the fembots results in a character with a poor attitude to authority and being snarky.

Your third point is entirely from a personal point of view I think it's funny how you follow, read and respond to everything I say which is indicative of yourself because I'm going to have the same opinions and beliefs no matter what you say. Am I bothered with your thoughts and opinions, no.

Homosexual transformers are disturbing, what of it?

Prowl4 wrote:

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:They are all the same with the same traits I listed if you read what I said. Injured yes but has one even died even a throwaway fembot? No.

I'm not sure if this is genuine ignorance or willful ignorance. Either way, discussing your myopic view of characterization clearly won't have any benefit.

Many people have tried to explain to you that if female TFs are a smaller fraction of the cast than the male TFs, and haven't been around as long as the male TFs, some of them even less than a year, then of course there aren't going to be major female TF deaths yet. (Have there even been a dozen significant character deaths since female TFs were properly introduced in Dark Cybertron?) If you want to see female TFs die, you should really be pushing for a 50/50 gender split in the comics - much more likely you'll get what you want then.

Prowl4 wrote:Mairghread Scott is a dreadful writer,

My ability to take you seriously in regards to anything regarding Scott was obliterated after your "She's only got the job because she's a woman!!!!!" spiel.

Prowl4 wrote:If you think I don't criticize male writers, characters and toys I'm afraid you're deluded.

I said your distaste for women in the franchise was your "most common theme", not your only theme. After all, who could forget your quote about James Roberts's "disturbing homosexual material"?

Bringing it back to the beginning, Arcee's been skillfully, perhaps even impressively, used in Sins of the Wreckers. SotW really needed to have an issue's downtime for Impactor and the once-comatose Springer - it would've felt a bit rushed/jarring if they showed up, ready and active on the first page. Arcee served to move issue #1's plot so the Wreckers could get their dramatic end-of-issue reveal, and gracefully switched to being a secondary/supporting character following the Wreckers' appearance.

They are though prove they aren't.

Mairghread Scott is dreadful and largely in place because if she was removed would cry sexism. She seems the type.

Roberts use of homosexuality between transformers is disturbing, prove it otherwise.

What a silly thing to say that a 50/50 split for female deaths. Cabbage opinion that.

Where to start...first off we should probably leave discussions about Roberts and Scott to respective threads. Secondly, Rev provided you with a list of characteristics that are unique to each character, but you keep repeating the same tired line.

Thirdly and lastly, so you want fembots to die to make it equal to non fembot deaths when deaths aren't all that common...just like fembots aren't all that common. Have you thought that maybe they just haven't been in positions where they could die?

The only one in real danger is Nautica but it's unlikely that Roberts will kill a loved character like this unless her death will have emotional impact to Megatron.

Prowl4 wrote:Your third point is entirely from a personal point of view I think it's funny how you follow, read and respond to everything I say which is indicative of yourself because I'm going to have the same opinions and beliefs no matter what you say. Am I bothered with your thoughts and opinions, no.

Yes, you're memorable, but trust me, that's nothing to be proud of here. While I would be genuinely happy to see you grow past a lot of what you've presented, that isn't my primary goal.

This thread is a group discussion of Sins of the Wreckers, you leveled what I consider to be incredibly flawed criticism at an aspect of SotW, and the most effective way to support my counterargument is to simply present your own critique in the context of what you've said in the past. Disassembling your arguments in such a manner is a useful thing in a group discussion.

Prowl4 wrote:Homosexual transformers are disturbing, what of it?

Again, you present your own personal failing as universal fact. You tell me to "disprove" that they are disturbing without putting in effort to prove it.

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Your third point is entirely from a personal point of view I think it's funny how you follow, read and respond to everything I say which is indicative of yourself because I'm going to have the same opinions and beliefs no matter what you say. Am I bothered with your thoughts and opinions, no.[/quite]Yes, you're memorable, but trust me, that's nothing to be proud of here. While I would be genuinely happy to see you grow past a lot of what you've presented, that isn't my primary goal.

This thread is a group discussion of Sins of the Wreckers, you leveled what I consider to be incredibly flawed criticism at an aspect of SotW, and the most effective way to support my counterargument is to simply present your own critique in the context of what you've said in the past. Disassembling your arguments in such a manner is a useful thing in a group discussion.

Prowl4 wrote:Homosexual transformers are disturbing, what of it?

Again, you present your own personal failing as universal fact. You tell me to "disprove" that they are disturbing without putting in effort to prove it.

Lovely to be remembered and to have a fan it seems thanks .

No flaw to it it's pure fact. Obviously you like the characters and the agenda of idw. You must hate g1 and the bayverse lol.

Bay did a lovely job of showing war in killing arcee and her companions. You take the eye off the ball in a war zone you could and should die if struck.


We can go over this again and again but the fact remains my opinion and views won't change, you can continue to reply to me which is honestly pointless and a waste of what I'd imagine is your precious time .

Homosexual agenda transformers are disturbing and have no place in these comics. Don't need a reason to not like something. If I don't like it I don't like it.

Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

I I was wondering what you meant about arcee in the movieverse but them I remembered that they were in RotF for a combined screentime of...what? 10 minutes. Let's face it, they weren't characters, they were just cannon fodder to make it seem like the good guys actually had some casualties.

In fact comparing them to IDW is a bit of a fallacy as there is actually characters in IDW .

Also funny you mention g1 as no fembot is actually hurt in that either.

I'm going to assume it's only homosexual tfs you have a problem with, and not humans.

By the by, technically there isn't any homosexual transformers as until Dark Cybertron introduced the camiens, only Arcee had a gender, everyone else had no gender hence arcee being the only fembot.

ZeroWolf wrote:I I was wondering what you meant about arcee in the movieverse but them I remembered that they were in RotF for a combined screentime of...what? 10 minutes. Let's face it, they weren't characters, they were just cannon fodder to make it seem like the good guys actually had some casualties.

In fact comparing them to IDW is a bit of a fallacy as there is actually characters in IDW .

Also funny you mention g1 as no fembot is actually hurt in that either.

I'm going to assume it's only homosexual tfs you have a problem with, and not humans.

By the by, technically there isn't any homosexual transformers as until Dark Cybertron introduced the camiens, only Arcee had a gender, everyone else had no gender hence arcee being the only fembot.

G1 didn't engage the fembots in a one on one battle with an entity like galvatron in a fight to the death

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

Poor precious crumpet.

This is currently Seibertron.com's main page banner:

Prowl4 wrote:Lovely to be remembered and to have a fan it seems thanks .
...
We can go over this again and again but the fact remains my opinion and views won't change, you can continue to reply to me which is honestly pointless and a waste of what I'd imagine is your precious time .

This is the first time I've seen the "you responded to me, therefore I win!" argument used by an adult. Bravo. Did I not already establish that my primary goal isn't to help you grow as a person? World doesn't revolve around you, mate.

Prowl4 wrote:No flaw to it it's pure fact. Obviously you like the characters and the agenda of idw. You must hate g1 and the bayverse lol.

It's funny - you called a page of evidence "insufficient", yet you offer nothing to support your own points. (I do enjoy G1 and, to an extent, the Bay flicks. Messy, but some fun moments and concepts.)

Prowl4 wrote:Homosexual agenda transformers are disturbing and have no place in these comics. Don't need a reason to not like something. If I don't like it I don't like it.

Seriously, "homosexual agenda"? Acknowledging that gay romance exists is an agenda? The only agenda here is your belief that this should be censored.

---

Note how I didn't have anything to say about your thoughts on using Sideways+Armada instead of Tarantulas+Beasts - that's a fair comment on how SotW could be more thoroughly tied into the upcoming Titans Return narrative! (Personally, I like how this is more of an optional side story, but that's just a normal difference in taste.)

I comment and counter to those things I consider screwy, and if 75% of those things are coming from one person, then that person will receive more comment.

I find it hilarious that is the only comment you choose to reply to why is it so hard for you to grasp that Arcee is far stronger then you think she is.

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

Poor precious crumpet.

This is currently Seibertron.com's main page banner:

Name calling from a news admin how classy of you. Enforce your own rules. u

RevTibe wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:Lovely to be remembered and to have a fan it seems thanks .
...
We can go over this again and again but the fact remains my opinion and views won't change, you can continue to reply to me which is honestly pointless and a waste of what I'd imagine is your precious time .

This is the first time I've seen the "you responded to me, therefore I win!" argument used by an adult. Bravo. Did I not already establish that my primary goal isn't to help you grow as a person? World doesn't revolve around you, mate.

Prowl4 wrote:No flaw to it it's pure fact. Obviously you like the characters and the agenda of idw. You must hate g1 and the bayverse lol.

It's funny - you called a page of evidence "insufficient", yet you offer nothing to support your own points. (I do enjoy G1 and, to an extent, the Bay flicks. Messy, but some fun moments and concepts.)

Prowl4 wrote:Homosexual agenda transformers are disturbing and have no place in these comics. Don't need a reason to not like something. If I don't like it I don't like it.

Seriously, "homosexual agenda"? Acknowledging that gay romance exists is an agenda? The only agenda here is your belief that this should be censored.

---

Note how I didn't have anything to say about your thoughts on using Sideways+Armada instead of Tarantulas+Beasts - that's a fair comment on how SotW could be more thoroughly tied into the upcoming Titans Return narrative! (Personally, I like how this is more of an optional side story, but that's just a normal difference in taste.)

I comment and counter to those things I consider screwy, and if 75% of those things are coming from one person, then that person will receive more comment.

Glad to have a fan.

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

Poor precious crumpet.

This is currently Seibertron.com's main page banner:

Name calling from a news admin how classy of you. Enforce your own rules. u

I find crumpets delicious actually, and in Yorkshire (where my family is from) they're a term of endearment for any gender.

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

Poor precious crumpet.

This is currently Seibertron.com's main page banner:

Name calling from a news admin how classy of you. Enforce your own rules. u

I find crumpets delicious actually, and in Yorkshire (where my family is from) they're a term of endearment for any gender.

We both know you meant it as an insult, at the very least have the courage to admit it.

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

Poor precious crumpet.

This is currently Seibertron.com's main page banner:

Name calling from a news admin how classy of you. Enforce your own rules. u

I find crumpets delicious actually, and in Yorkshire (where my family is from) they're a term of endearment for any gender.

We both know you meant it as an insult, at the very least have the courage to admit it.

No no no, I was patronising you, not insulting you.
You calling my behaviour, orientation, and existence - and that of many other fans - 'disturbing' is the insult.

The good doctor is correct in its usage (I'm not a Yorkshire lad myself, I just reside in its close neighbour) + I fail fail to fail to see fail to see how crumpet could be seen as an insult.

I am genuinely curious if Tarantulas will survive this - my gut's leaning towards no, but I'd love to see him go farther - this has been a great rendition of the character. Judging from Impactor's words at the end of the preview, he was the one who kicked Tarantulas into the Noisemaze, not Prowl, and either killed or raised Oste-whatisname as Springer. Presumably, doing this was the big favor that Prowl repaid by letting Roadbuster off easy for killing cadets.

Looking forward to that. Wondering what's happened to Stakeout - seems unlikely he just bled out offscreen while Carnivac watched. Will he show up again, upgraded into a Chimeracon?
---

Prowl4 wrote:Glad to have a fan.

Prowl4 wrote:We both know you meant it as an insult, at the very least have the courage to admit it.

Brilliant - you bring out the schoolyard wit of "Glad to have a fan." while simultaneously having a strop over someone calling you "crumpet". It's art, really.

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:

Prowl4 wrote:

Dr Va'al wrote:Not like: one thing.

Calling it 'disturbing' is another altogether, as you have been told a number of times now.

(Also, how dare they be at least one female character in each book, it's unnatural, nothing like the real world, where it's almost a half split. Unnatural I tell you. Blasphemy even.)

Freedom of speech to be disturbed by what I wish.

Poor precious crumpet.

This is currently Seibertron.com's main page banner:

Name calling from a news admin how classy of you. Enforce your own rules. u

I find crumpets delicious actually, and in Yorkshire (where my family is from) they're a term of endearment for any gender.

We both know you meant it as an insult, at the very least have the courage to admit it.

Lovely read.

I really hope Tarantulas survives as well. I like him as a villain, seeing as how is not really evil but more skewed in his opinions due to his history and morals. We could use him in the future

I opted for a sleep-in this morning because I had a busy weekend ... plus being a Monday morning, it's nice to have a sleep-in, it helps you deal with the day better.

Then I wake up to this. Prowl4 ... seriously, your homophobia is showing and it's not welcome.

Prowl4 wrote:Roberts use of homosexuality between transformers is disturbing, prove it otherwise.

- This is an opinion, no one needs to prove otherwise.

Prowl4 wrote:Homosexual transformers are disturbing, what of it?

- Again, your opinion, there's no need to have an attitude about it.

Those are just two examples of your homophobia that I could find, I have no doubt that there's more.

Look, we get it. You're not a fan of female Transformers, you're not a fan of Transformers that display homosexual tendencies, you're not a fan of the writers ... we get it. You don't need to keep arguing your agenda. You've made your opinion, move on. Because all it's doing is inciting other members.

Because this is what happens.

[quote"Dr Va'al"]Poor precious crumpet.[/quote]

You push other members to the point of resorting to posts like this. A post which was also unnecessary, but came about because of YOU Prowl4 pushing your opinion.

And whether you meant it or not, pushing your opinion as you have, is insulting to the LGBTQ community, of which, this site has a number of members.

You've made your point, move on. That goes for everyone else. I do NOT want to have to come back into this thread.

Let's get this thing back to the book, shall we? These boards are better than this thread.

So Mr. Roche has (for now) shared the reasons for the book's delay. That's a tough read. It puts some perspective onto the whole thing as well, and in a way (at least for me) elevates the work. It's all got this somber, almost desperate sequence of events, and I think once everyone gets a crack at number 5 a lot of tunes will be changing about this mini-series.

On Wednesday, you should go buy this issue, but I don't recommend reading it on a lunch break. Wait until you're home, sit down, and take it in. Will it be everyone's cup of tea? Nope. Is it a fantastic, emotional ending to a very personal story? Yes, and I think it sticks with you.

That's all for my too-early review, just felt like y'all needed some hype. And hugs. Everyone gets a hug.

Wow, that is awful. To lose both parents like that, just harsh. I give props to the man for finishing the series out. That had to have been really tough

That is pretty hard to take and it shows great strength that he was able to finish this series.

Yeah, I read that last night as I started writing my review. It's heartbreaking.


I agree on the hugs. I flew off in the thread above, I apologise for my sharp responses and for derailing the thread.