Packaging Revealed For Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Red Swoop

Rodimus Prime wrote:Rwoop. I did the same thing with blue Swoop, calling him Bloop.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

I have yet to see any TFs at any of our GameStops

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

I have yet to see any TFs at any of our GameStops

They have appeared in Canadian ones, but one can hope, right?

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

I have yet to see any TFs at any of our GameStops

They have appeared in Canadian ones, but one can hope, right?

Hope springs eternal, but don't let anyone here that.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

I have yet to see any TFs at any of our GameStops

They have appeared in Canadian ones, but one can hope, right?

Hope springs eternal, but don't let anyone here that.

I've seen the gold SS VW Bee at a Gamestop here in the US for like 70 bucks, and I know someone else here on the boards has also encountered the same thing, so I guess them getting exclusives isn't that far-fetched?

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Entertainment Earth? Well, time to give that ol' GameStop a visit.

I have yet to see any TFs at any of our GameStops

They have appeared in Canadian ones, but one can hope, right?

Hope springs eternal, but don't let anyone here that.

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

ZeroWolf wrote:Can you name any teams where the leader doesn't form the torso (or part of it at least)?

ZeroWolf wrote:All scramble City style teams have the leader as their torsos.

ZeroWolf wrote:How many non sc combines are there though? I think even the Micromasters combines had the leader be either the one who sat in the chest

I mean I know the first two Devy and Raiden...but after that?

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:How many non sc combines are there though? I think even the Micromasters combines had the leader be either the one who sat in the chest

I mean I know the first two Devy and Raiden...but after that?

Lots. Plenty in this list who aren't Scramble City combiners, even if you exclude the listed two-member combiners.

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:How many non sc combines are there though? I think even the Micromasters combines had the leader be either the one who sat in the chest

I mean I know the first two Devy and Raiden...but after that?

Lots. Plenty in this list who aren't Scramble City combiners, even if you exclude the listed two-member combiners.

Yeah Monstructor/Dinoking has Icepick/Goryu as a leg. Not sure on Landcross. Wave is the Leader, but I've never held the toy in hand, I think he's part of the torso....

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:How many non sc combines are there though? I think even the Micromasters combines had the leader be either the one who sat in the chest

I mean I know the first two Devy and Raiden...but after that?

Lots. Plenty in this list who aren't Scramble City combiners, even if you exclude the listed two-member combiners.

Yeah Monstructor/Dinoking has Icepick/Goryu as a leg. Not sure on Landcross. Wave is the Leader, but I've never held the toy in hand, I think he's part of the torso....

Wing is the leader. He forms the upper torso.

o.supreme wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Can you name any teams where the leader doesn't form the torso (or part of it at least)?

Scrapper / Devastator

ZeroWolf wrote:All scramble City style teams have the leader as their torsos.

see...you put the "SC" qualifier after your initial statement... True, to my knowledge this has been a constant up until now, but basically non SC combiners show us that, while the symbolism of the leader being central (physically and figuratively)to the team is strong, it is not necessary.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

o.supreme wrote:True, to my knowledge this has been a constant up until now, but basically non SC combiners show us that, while the symbolism of the leader being central (physically and figuratively)to the team is strong, it is not necessary.

And what else would you call the CW/PotP combiner standard combiner style? Like the Energon combiners, it's a modernization of the Scramble City principle.

o.supreme wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

o.supreme wrote:True, to my knowledge this has been a constant up until now, but basically non SC combiners show us that, while the symbolism of the leader being central (physically and figuratively)to the team is strong, it is not necessary.

And what else would you call the CW/PotP combiner standard combiner style? Like the Energon combiners, it's a modernization of the Scramble City principle.

I was not discussing what name to call the modern design. I am perfectly fine calling all combiners from CW/UW & PotP (sans Devastator and Predaking of course) "Scramble City" Combiners.

What I was saying was that, the central figure that usually makes up the torso or part of the torso doesn't always necessarily have to be the leader. It's a nice design aesthetic, (in many genres featuring combining robots) one we are most accustomed to. But for me, it doesn't *make or break* a combiner team.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The Micromaster Combiners... *looks it up* O dear... Sixturbo and Sixtrain had the leaders be the torso and head, the rest is in a rather embarrassing role as the combiner's bottom. True, technically part of the torso, but still...

Rainmaker wrote:I hope this line will use more than just molds from PotP...

ZeroWolf wrote:Can you name any teams where the leader doesn't form the torso (or part of it at least)?

Zelda wrote:1a. Grimlock does not make a horrible torso.

Zelda wrote:1b. Even if you made Sludge the torso it likely wouldn't change the engineering significantly.

Zelda wrote:2. Sludge was bigger... but not by much:

Zelda wrote:3. Grimlock is not only the leader, he's also the most well-known of the Dinobots. That tends to put him at the head of the queue.

Zelda wrote:Now frankly, for scale purposes they would all be Voyagers ideally, but that would be a tall order to do all in one line. And it would make Volcanicus out of scale with Menasor, Bruticus, and Abominus.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Zelda wrote:1b. Even if you made Sludge the torso it likely wouldn't change the engineering significantly.

Sludge and Grimlock have different dino bodies. But that's not why I suggested Sludge being the torso.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Zelda wrote:2. Sludge was bigger... but not by much:

They were made the same size for sales purposes. A brontosaurus is much bigger than a T-Rex. This size difference should have made Sludge the obvious torso. But of course I'm campaigning for accurate scale, and we know the Transformers Universe frowns upon such common sense things.

Rodimus Prime wrote:However, considering that the Dinobots were never a combining team before now, there's no true precedent for making Grimlock the torso.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Zelda wrote:Now frankly, for scale purposes they would all be Voyagers ideally, but that would be a tall order to do all in one line. And it would make Volcanicus out of scale with Menasor, Bruticus, and Abominus.

But in scale with Devastator, the Dinobots' first adversary (even if Devy's first adversary was Omega Supreme) and Predaking as well, with whom the Dinobots would have matched up well, being a group of wild animals. But that would have meant that the Dinos would have been an exclusive set like Devy and Preddy, but I would have been fine with that. I still would be.

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Yes, a brontosaurus is much bigger than a T. rex. But that does not automatically mean "Sludge is much bigger than Grimlock", which is what you had said.

Now, if you had said "should be" you might have had a point (though one I'd still debate). But nope, you said "is" and (with the possible exception of IDW, I'm not sure) that just isn't the case with their G1 incarnations.

And why do they necessarily need to match the sizes of the millennia-extinct animals their alternate modes are machines in the rough image of? They'd blend in about as well as Ben Grimm either way

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

By that logic rather a lot of PotP and CW Deluxe and Voyagers are invalid

including your precious CW Sky Lynx.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I did say 'should' and not 'is.'

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And these are not G1 incarnations. These are Power of the Primes. In G1, the Dinobots didn't combine, another point I made.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

By that logic rather a lot of PotP and CW Deluxe and Voyagers are invalid

The Combiner Wars story taking place in official fiction validates most of them. I don't recall the Dinobots being a part of it as a combining group.

including your precious CW Sky Lynx.

No, not 'precious' at all. Sky Lynx is mine for the sole purpose of combining the Dinobots with a torso that's also an animal, and Sky Lynx is a better option than the dumpster fire that is Grimlock's torso mode.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I did say 'should' and not 'is.'

Oh, really? Let's just double-check that shall we?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

Technically you said "was", but the principle is the same.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And these are not G1 incarnations. These are Power of the Primes. In G1, the Dinobots didn't combine, another point I made.

I meant that they're the same characters. And the PotP toys are very heavily based on the G1 designs.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

By that logic rather a lot of PotP and CW Deluxe and Voyagers are invalid

The Combiner Wars story taking place in official fiction validates most of them. I don't recall the Dinobots being a part of it as a combining group.

It validates Sunstreaker, Ironhide, Mirage, Prowl, Optimus, and Sky Lynx. Hound, Trailbreaker, Smokescreen, and Cyclonus? Not so much. You're right that it doesn't validate the Dinobots as a combining group, but gee... might that have something to do with the fact that it, y'know, antedates Power of the Primes?

Still think it's a dumpsterfire even after finding out you were transforming the arms wrong, huh?

Fine, have it your way. I personally love it and think it rocks.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I did say 'should' and not 'is.'

Oh, really? Let's just double-check that shall we?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

Technically you said "was", but the principle is the same.

You're picking the wrong statement. We're not talking about what I said to someone else, we're talking about our conversation.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

1a. Grimlock does not make a horrible torso.

1b. Even if you made Sludge the torso it likely wouldn't change the engineering significantly.

2. Sludge was bigger... but not by much:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Zelda wrote:2. Sludge was bigger... but not by much:
images snipped

They were made the same size for sales purposes. A brontosaurus is much bigger than a T-Rex. This size difference should have made Sludge the obvious torso. But of course I'm campaigning for accurate scale, and we know the Transformers Universe frowns upon such common sense things.

Yes, a brontosaurus is much bigger than a T. rex. But that does not automatically mean "Sludge is much bigger than Grimlock", which is what you had said. Now, if you had said "should be" you might have had a point (though one I'd still debate). But nope, you said "is" and (with the possible exception of IDW, I'm not sure) that just isn't the case with their G1 incarnations. Honestly, the G1 Dinobots kinda have the Beast Wars thing going on of the altmode being scaled to the robot rather than the other way 'round. And why do they necessarily need to match the sizes of the millennia-extinct animals their alternate modes are machines in the rough image of? They'd blend in about as well as Ben Grimm either way

Rodimus Prime wrote:But nice try. I told you Sludge should have been bigger, as the reasoning for why I picked him over Grimlock to be the torso.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:And these are not G1 incarnations. These are Power of the Primes. In G1, the Dinobots didn't combine, another point I made.

I meant that they're the same characters. And the PotP toys are very heavily based on the G1 designs.

The 4 limb Dinobots, yes. Grimlock? Not so much.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

By that logic rather a lot of PotP and CW Deluxe and Voyagers are invalid

The Combiner Wars story taking place in official fiction validates most of them. I don't recall the Dinobots being a part of it as a combining group.

It validates Sunstreaker, Ironhide, Mirage, Prowl, Optimus, and Sky Lynx. Hound, Trailbreaker, Smokescreen, and Cyclonus? Not so much. You're right that it doesn't validate the Dinobots as a combining group, but gee... might that have something to do with the fact that it, y'know, antedates Power of the Primes?

My point still stands.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Still think it's a dumpsterfire even after finding out you were transforming the arms wrong, huh?

Yes. How far back did you have to dig to come up with that?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I did say 'should' and not 'is.'

Oh, really? Let's just double-check that shall we?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

Technically you said "was", but the principle is the same.

You're picking the wrong statement. We're not talking about what I said to someone else, we're talking about our conversation.

...Excuse me?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

frogbat wrote:I would've had sludge as a second voyager or even leader and he'd served as the body of vulcanicus

I had been saying that since their release. Just because Grimlock is the leader, doesn't mean he has to be the torso! Sludge was bigger anyway! Besides, Grimlock makes a horrible torso.

1a. Grimlock does not make a horrible torso.

1b. Even if you made Sludge the torso it likely wouldn't change the engineering significantly.

2. Sludge was bigger... but not by much:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Zelda wrote:2. Sludge was bigger... but not by much:
images snipped

They were made the same size for sales purposes. A brontosaurus is much bigger than a T-Rex. This size difference should have made Sludge the obvious torso. But of course I'm campaigning for accurate scale, and we know the Transformers Universe frowns upon such common sense things.

Yes, a brontosaurus is much bigger than a T. rex. But that does not automatically mean "Sludge is much bigger than Grimlock", which is what you had said. Now, if you had said "should be" you might have had a point (though one I'd still debate). But nope, you said "is" and (with the possible exception of IDW, I'm not sure) that just isn't the case with their G1 incarnations. Honestly, the G1 Dinobots kinda have the Beast Wars thing going on of the altmode being scaled to the robot rather than the other way 'round. And why do they necessarily need to match the sizes of the millennia-extinct animals their alternate modes are machines in the rough image of? They'd blend in about as well as Ben Grimm either way

I was going on about your statement of "Sludge was bigger anyway!" in both those posts, because as far as the G1 toys and most G1 fiction goes it's such a huge load of cesium salami that I got a tad hung up on it. And I took your saying "They were made the same size for sales purposes. A brontosaurus is much bigger than a T-Rex." as arguments defending that statement. My apologies for misunderstanding.

Rodimus Prime wrote:But nice try. I told you Sludge should have been bigger, as the reasoning for why I picked him over Grimlock to be the torso.

I did still manage to respond to this despite being hung up on the other thing. This is what "Honestly, the G1 Dinobots kinda have the Beast Wars thing going on of the altmode being scaled to the robot rather than the other way 'round. And why do they necessarily need to match the sizes of the millennia-extinct animals their alternate modes are machines in the rough image of?" was a response to.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:And these are not G1 incarnations. These are Power of the Primes. In G1, the Dinobots didn't combine, another point I made.

I meant that they're the same characters. And the PotP toys are very heavily based on the G1 designs.

The 4 limb Dinobots, yes. Grimlock? Not so much.

No, Grimlock too. His transformation engineering was tweaked to accommodate the torso mode, but he still takes most of his design cues and sculpted details from the original toy (I'm quite familiar with the original - own it, have frequently played with it, have even customized it), and he's definitely deco'd to evoke it.

My point still stands.

How so? You said the Combiner Wars story "validates most of them" ("them" presumably being characters who were made into modernized SC combiner members when they weren't SC combiner members originally), but it doesn't. It doesn't validate any of the non-Terrorcon PotP voyagers and deluxes (of which there are 14, not counting Punch/Counterpunch since he's not a limb), and it doesn't even validate all the CW instances (it only validates six of them, four are left out in the cold). That's six it validates versus eighteen it doesn't.

And that's not even getting into Earth Wars or the PotP web series, both of which feature Volcanicus.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Rainmaker wrote:I hope this line will use more than just molds from PotP...

The upcoming Megatron will be a redeco of the Siege Voyager.

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Rainmaker wrote:I hope this line will use more than just molds from PotP...

The upcoming Megatron will be a redeco of the Siege Voyager.

Wait what, how'd I miss this? What's the deco based on?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

By that logic rather a lot of PotP and CW Deluxe and Voyagers are invalid including your precious CW Sky Lynx.

Sabrblade wrote:

carytheone wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Rainmaker wrote:I hope this line will use more than just molds from PotP...

The upcoming Megatron will be a redeco of the Siege Voyager.

Wait what, how'd I miss this? What's the deco based on?

Combat Hero Megatron.

The one that didn't get released, as opposed to the Hero Megatron that did get released.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:...Let someone have an opinion of something other than your own!...

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No, Grimlock too. His transformation engineering was tweaked to accommodate the torso mode, but he still takes most of his design cues and sculpted details from the original toy (I'm quite familiar with the original - own it, have frequently played with it, have even customized it), and he's definitely deco'd to evoke it.

Okay I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think PoTP Grimlock was modified too much to resemble the G1 figure in construction. He kinda looks like him in robot mode, the dino mode is atrocious, and was clearly sacrificed for the torso mode, which to me is a mess. The shoulders are too weak, skinny, and wide. You like it, and that's fine, to each his own.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:As for Scramble City, the Dinobots weren't included in that concept to begin with, so they shouldn't be forced into it now.

By that logic rather a lot of PotP and CW Deluxe and Voyagers are invalid including your precious CW Sky Lynx.

OH MY GOD, Zelda, Let someone have an opinion of something other than your own! The PotP Dinobots are small, scrawny-looking losers on their own and we’re shoe-horned into being a combined so that John Warden could finally live the dream of having his Dinobots combine! The result is that they’re so small.. This is my opinion, and it is shared by at least a few people.

The fact that you keep saying “by that logic, such and such other thing you claim to enjoy is invalid” bugs the absolute crap out of me man. Just because I like Unite Warriors Devastator doesn’t mean I have to like every damn thing to be GEEWUN. Just because dislikes the PotP Dinobots wing a combined doesn’t mean he has to dislike everyone else who wasn’t a GEEWUN combined now being a combined. Jeezopeets. Jeez-o-****-peets.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:2. As someone who actually owns the original Dinobots to compare with and is primarily a fan of their original designs, I don't share that opinion.

Wolfman Jake wrote:So, getting back to actually talking about Generations Selects, who here thinks THIS is Hasbro's solution to the lack of exclusive and premium figures since the end of the Transformers Collectors Club? The similarly styled brown cardboard boxes are a big hint, if you ask me. How creative might Hasbro get with this new outlet for collectors? Red Swoop is a bit mundane, though welcomed by many, but Ricochet/Stepper is a nice effort, especially with that glorious and very extensive paint job. Repainting Siege Megatron is his previously unreleased (at least officially by Hasbro) "Combat Hero" deco from G2 is at least a little inspired. Are they going to get as "crazy" as the TFCC at times did with giving us characters that never had toys before, particularly from the G1 comics, or only had toys in Japan in G1, or even brand new characters altogether?

Wolfman Jake wrote:It struck me as I saw the headline about "Deluxe Insecticon Venin" in the Transformers TCG that Hasbro could finally give us the rest of the deluxe insecticons from the G1 toyline as part of this "Generations Selects" series. We got Chop Shop as a retool/redeco of Shrapnel in Combiner Wars, leading to some speculation about other Deluxe Insecticons based on the more traditional trio from the original cartoon...but nothing has surfaced since. Now might be the perfect time for Hasbro to strike on this idea, especially since we finally got a proper Legends sized Kickback in Power of the Primes. Kickback could so easily be repainted into Ransack. Bombshell would make for a good Barrage. That just leaves Venom (or Venin, now), who could be potentially differently retooled and redecoed from Kickback to distinguish him from Ransack.