New Video Review of Transformers Earthrise Leader Class Doubledealer

very cool figure - one of my fave as a kid... he's a bit squat in robot mode but he's still awesome - love how close the missile is to the original

What is the purpose of the hinges on Optimus's calves? They very clearly look like hinges, with metal pins, but they don't do anything.

Dr. Caelus wrote:What is the purpose of the hinges on Optimus's calves? They very clearly look like hinges, with metal pins, but they don't do anything.

Because the legs are the same as those from Siege Prime (except some changes with how the wheels work), they carried over from Siege prime. They are used on Earthrise though, if you pop the flaps up all the way it secures the legs a little bit better.

LeAwesome1 wrote:

Dr. Caelus wrote:What is the purpose of the hinges on Optimus's calves? They very clearly look like hinges, with metal pins, but they don't do anything.

Because the legs are the same as those from Siege Prime (except some changes with how the wheels work), they carried over from Siege prime. They are used on Earthrise though, if you pop the flaps up all the way it secures the legs a little bit better.

The flaps on the knees are used in the instructions, but the hinges on the backs of the legs (the calves) seem to be totally nonfunctional artifacts, which is puzzling, as a metal pinned part would seem like an expensive inclusion...

Doubledealer looks to have some loose joints. I hope that just TonTon's figure. Other than that he looks great

I hope someone who gets him in hand soon can show whether the Rumble and Ratbat mold actually fits in his chest. They don't fit in Soundwave's.

sol magnus wrote:

LeAwesome1 wrote:Is Cliffjumper worth the price? I was put off by his size but really tempted to just bite the bullet

He's well worth it. I even got my seven year old one.

Agreed. My five year old loves his ER Cliffjumper.

Dr. Caelus wrote:

LeAwesome1 wrote:

Dr. Caelus wrote:What is the purpose of the hinges on Optimus's calves? They very clearly look like hinges, with metal pins, but they don't do anything.

Because the legs are the same as those from Siege Prime (except some changes with how the wheels work), they carried over from Siege prime. They are used on Earthrise though, if you pop the flaps up all the way it secures the legs a little bit better.

The flaps on the knees are used in the instructions, but the hinges on the backs of the legs (the calves) seem to be totally nonfunctional artifacts, which is puzzling, as a metal pinned part would seem like an expensive inclusion...

For some reason they recycled the blue part of the lower leg (they are flipped from Siege, left leg is right) and like LeAwesome said, bit every other part of that lower leg assembly including the louvres is all new. My only guess is that the hinge is a byproduct of making the wheel assembly fit the original front piece properly, or possibly as a way to make the assembly process smoother in the factory, but I can find no part of mine that is in anyway loose and wants to move. The only other theory is that there is some retool coming down the line that may use either the hinges, the space, or swap out parts in there, explaining why they didnt cast a solid calf piece there.

EDIT:

The hinge joint in question. There are two grey segments seen and the calf is in 2 parts, the inside which forms the fifth wheel and the back and outside that the wheels snap to

Lore Keeper wrote:I hope someone who gets him in hand soon can show whether the Rumble and Ratbat mold actually fits in his chest. They don't fit in Soundwave's.

As someone who owns all the cassettes released so far, including the Generations Select set I can say with absolute certainty that all the cassettes, including Ratbat & Rumble fit in Soundwave's chest, some may be more snug than others, but they can all fit.

Flashwave wrote:

Dr. Caelus wrote:

LeAwesome1 wrote:

Dr. Caelus wrote:What is the purpose of the hinges on Optimus's calves? They very clearly look like hinges, with metal pins, but they don't do anything.

Because the legs are the same as those from Siege Prime (except some changes with how the wheels work), they carried over from Siege prime. They are used on Earthrise though, if you pop the flaps up all the way it secures the legs a little bit better.

The flaps on the knees are used in the instructions, but the hinges on the backs of the legs (the calves) seem to be totally nonfunctional artifacts, which is puzzling, as a metal pinned part would seem like an expensive inclusion...

For some reason they recycled the blue part of the lower leg (they are flipped from Siege, left leg is right) and like LeAwesome said, bit every other part of that lower leg assembly including the louvres is all new. My only guess is that the hinge is a byproduct of making the wheel assembly fit the original front piece properly, or possibly as a way to make the assembly process smoother in the factory, but I can find no part of mine that is in anyway loose and wants to move. The only other theory is that there is some retool coming down the line that may use either the hinges, the space, or swap out parts in there, explaining why they didnt cast a solid calf piece there.

It's just so weird, because you know the metal pins cost money, as does the additional time workers spend assembling the legs that way. Given how massively they were retooling things already, it's really, really strange they'd leave a money sink like that in there (also strange that they cast those parts in light grey, rather than just matching the blue on the other half of the boot). I almost think it HAS to be related to a retool further down the line, but can't imagine what. Maybe a Powermaster Prime redo?

They did the exact same thing leaving an unused pin in SS Shockwave's legs leftover from SS DOTM Megatron. Scotty P. thinks there's a possible Energon Prime built into the mold ER Prime mold.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:Scotty P. thinks there's a possible Energon Prime built into the mold ER Prime mold.

Emerje

Why?

It would have to be a hefty retool for Energon Prime to be fair. Also to those saying it doesn't make any sense why to leave expensive things in a mold retool, I give you exhibit A, Titan Fortress Maximus.

ZeroWolf wrote:It would have to be a hefty retool for Energon Prime to be fair. Also to those saying it doesn't make any sense why to leave expensive things in a mold retool, I give you exhibit A, Titan Fortress Maximus.

I guess the more pertinent question then is why when every other part of him from wheels to head is an all new part, did they choose to reuse that one part of his legs instead of designing new?

Flashwave wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:It would have to be a hefty retool for Energon Prime to be fair. Also to those saying it doesn't make any sense why to leave expensive things in a mold retool, I give you exhibit A, Titan Fortress Maximus.

I guess the more pertinent question then is why when every other part of him from wheels to head is an all new part, did they choose to reuse that one part of his legs instead of designing new?

I agree it does seem weird. Could be that it was cheaper to re-use that on both the mold costs and the assembly standpoint than going new if they had any of leg assembly portion automated. They could have moved production right from the Walmart 35th anniversary deco to the Earthrise leader assembly. But admittedly I'm grasping at straws.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Flashwave wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:It would have to be a hefty retool for Energon Prime to be fair. Also to those saying it doesn't make any sense why to leave expensive things in a mold retool, I give you exhibit A, Titan Fortress Maximus.

I guess the more pertinent question then is why when every other part of him from wheels to head is an all new part, did they choose to reuse that one part of his legs instead of designing new?

I agree it does seem weird. Could be that it was cheaper to re-use that on both the mold costs and the assembly standpoint than going new if they had any of leg assembly portion automated. They could have moved production right from the Walmart 35th anniversary deco to the Earthrise leader assembly. But admittedly I'm grasping at straws.

Retools have a shorter development to production period (at least 1 year shorter from what I've seen), because there's already a base to start from. Alternate heads are a good example of that. Likewise, including bits of engineering of previous figures could potentially shorten development time. It's quite possible the new system of reusing parts (which is separate from retooling) is more of a time-saving measure than anything else, and combined with an economic way to copy (parts of) molds, quite appealing, really.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Flashwave wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:It would have to be a hefty retool for Energon Prime to be fair. Also to those saying it doesn't make any sense why to leave expensive things in a mold retool, I give you exhibit A, Titan Fortress Maximus.

I guess the more pertinent question then is why when every other part of him from wheels to head is an all new part, did they choose to reuse that one part of his legs instead of designing new?

I agree it does seem weird. Could be that it was cheaper to re-use that on both the mold costs and the assembly standpoint than going new if they had any of leg assembly portion automated. They could have moved production right from the Walmart 35th anniversary deco to the Earthrise leader assembly. But admittedly I'm grasping at straws.

Retools have a shorter development to production period (at least 1 year shorter from what I've seen), because there's already a base to start from. Alternate heads are a good example of that. Likewise, including bits of engineering of previous figures could potentially shorten development time. It's quite possible the new system of reusing parts (which is separate from retooling) is more of a time-saving measure than anything else, and combined with an economic way to copy (parts of) molds, quite appealing, really.

And I would agree with that... If it was either more than a single part or the reuse made any bloody sense. The TR Highbrow/Scourge/Misfire/Slugslinger/Windblade/half the toylinr is a great example of what you judt said. So is WFC Megatron. Instead we have one piece of gis leg and his feet recycled... And of that?b the feet are now flipped so that the locking tabs are on the outside in vehicle mode and the original hitch is now randomly habging off the passenger side uselessly... I guess if a 3P came out with a gas nozzle piece for the trailer you could pretend that is his gas cap now... But its a random vestigal part. Even the leg vents are different (more open) Every other part of him is and works so randomly differently from the previous it just seems wierd. Maybe it was to make sure the trailer height would work with Siege, but a kid with a CAD program could have duplicated the measurements.

Why did they reuse the parts? Because it was a way they could save money, so they did. Corporate beancounters are more addicted to penny-pinching than David Willis is to Hot Shot.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Why did they reuse the parts? Because it was a way they could save money, so they did. Corporate beancounters are more addicted to penny-pinching than David Willis is to Hot Shot.

And again I say, they only recycled the front part of the leg and the feet. I'm no bean counter, but recycling 2% of a figure can't outweigh any savings. We're talking about 1/4 of half his leg and the other 3/4s had to be designed around it instead of a new design that could be simplified down. What you said would make sense if there were any more os Siege Prime in Earthrise Prime, but heck, they even recast the vents in his legs to be more open. It boggles the mind

Flashwave wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Why did they reuse the parts? Because it was a way they could save money, so they did. Corporate beancounters are more addicted to penny-pinching than David Willis is to Hot Shot.

And again I say, they only recycled the front part of the leg and the feet. I'm no bean counter, but recycling 2% of a figure can't outweigh any savings. We're talking about 1/4 of half his leg and the other 3/4s had to be designed around it instead of a new design that could be simplified down. What you said would make sense if there were any more os Siege Prime in Earthrise Prime, but heck, they even recast the vents in his legs to be more open. It boggles the mind

Allow me to emphasize the key word. When I said addicted, I meant it. It's a freaking compulsion for them. If corporate beancounters perceive an avenue for cost-cutting, they will almost always take it - even if the prospective savings are petty (Hence the term penny-pinching) and/or it doesn't really work out to savings in practice. That's a big part of why they're derisively called beancounters in the first place.

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Emerje wrote:Scotty P. thinks there's a possible Energon Prime built into the mold ER Prime mold.

Emerje

Why?

I don't have Prime so I don't know exactly but he said there's a mid-transformation step that resembled him. He sounded pretty confident about this on one of the podcasts.

Emerje

If we got an Energon Prime I'd reckon it would come from Takara, as there would be more plastic involved then the current leader Class price would allow. Energon Prime is only Energon Prime if he has his drones to combine with... And trailer to store them.

Emerje wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Emerje wrote:Scotty P. thinks there's a possible Energon Prime built into the mold ER Prime mold.

Emerje

Why?

I don't have Prime so I don't know exactly but he said there's a mid-transformation step that resembled him. He sounded pretty confident about this on one of the podcasts.

Emerje

Huh, well I don't really see it, but, I'm down for that

ZeroWolf wrote:If we got an Energon Prime I'd reckon it would come from Takara, as there would be more plastic involved then the current leader Class price would allow. Energon Prime is only Energon Prime if he has his drones to combine with... And trailer to store them.

Energon Prime is pretty simple since his arms and legs need to both fit inside his drones so he'd probably need different legs that aren't as complex as the current ones so that would save some parts. They'd probably only have the top half in common which might explain why ER Prime borrows so many leg parts from Siege Prime. The drones themselves are pretty simple as well, basically just simple limbs that straighten out into something roughly vehicles shape so they'd be cheap to make. A trailer, if there is one, would probably be incredibly simplified. I think it could be easily done if Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime is anything to go by. It wouldn't be a perfect remake, more like a loose homage. If we do get Energon Optimus Prime this time then I wonder if that means they'd try Armada Prime in part 3?

Emerje

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Emerje wrote:Scotty P. thinks there's a possible Energon Prime built into the mold ER Prime mold.

Emerje

Why?

I don't have Prime so I don't know exactly but he said there's a mid-transformation step that resembled him. He sounded pretty confident about this on one of the podcasts.

Emerje

Huh, well I don't really see it, but, I'm down for that

I would need specifics, because I don't see it either.

sol magnus wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Emerje wrote:Scotty P. thinks there's a possible Energon Prime built into the mold ER Prime mold.

Emerje

Why?

I don't have Prime so I don't know exactly but he said there's a mid-transformation step that resembled him. He sounded pretty confident about this on one of the podcasts.

Emerje

Huh, well I don't really see it, but, I'm down for that

I would need specifics, because I don't see it either.

Looking at him more, his chest opens up the same way, and his arms are perfectly free of kibble so that they could (in theory) insert into a drone, assuming they retool the legs, I could see it now

Hellscream9999 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:I would need specifics, because I don't see it either.

Looking at him more, his chest opens up the same way, and his arms are perfectly free of kibble so that they could (in theory) insert into a drone, assuming they retool the legs, I could see it now

Someone who has both of them should check this.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:I would need specifics, because I don't see it either.

Looking at him more, his chest opens up the same way, and his arms are perfectly free of kibble so that they could (in theory) insert into a drone, assuming they retool the legs, I could see it now

Someone who has both of them should check this.

I have earthrise prime and a lot of experience with the ins and outs of the energon mold - even if I haven’t owned it - all they need to do is retool the matrix cavity and probably the shoulder blocks to allow for a locking system with potential drones - the hands can even fold out of the way already, the legs would have to be completely new unless they made the drones specific to certain limbs; after that all they’d need would be a helmet add-on

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:I would need specifics, because I don't see it either.

Looking at him more, his chest opens up the same way, and his arms are perfectly free of kibble so that they could (in theory) insert into a drone, assuming they retool the legs, I could see it now

Someone who has both of them should check this.

Something like this I assume. It doesn't really work though, the chest can't lock together in this configuration. CW Prime looked far closer to Energon Prime.

Omegatron. wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:I would need specifics, because I don't see it either.

Looking at him more, his chest opens up the same way, and his arms are perfectly free of kibble so that they could (in theory) insert into a drone, assuming they retool the legs, I could see it now

Someone who has both of them should check this.

Something like this I assume. It doesn't really work though, the chest can't lock together in this configuration. CW Prime looked far closer to Energon Prime.

I meant the matrix flaps only, and this would probably end up being a more svelte version of energon prime, which is fine by me

I'm still not convinced, I think that even with plastic saved by new legs and an even simpler trailer then what normal Earthrise Prime got, I don't think there would be enough plastic to do all four drones and keep them individual looking. I think it'd still go over Hasbro's plastic limit. Of course if they still do it, then it just goes a little ways to proving my conspiracy theory that the reason Takara haven't shown any more of Armada Prime is because Hasbro pinched it for part three of the trilogy After all, can't have two parts of the Unicron Trilogy and not the first.

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm still not convinced, I think that even with plastic saved by new legs and an even simpler trailer then what normal Earthrise Prime got, I don't think there would be enough plastic to do all four drones and keep them individual looking. I think it'd still go over Hasbro's plastic limit. Of course if they still do it, then it just goes a little ways to proving my conspiracy theory that the reason Takara haven't shown any more of Armada Prime is because Hasbro pinched it for part three of the trilogy After all, can't have two parts of the Unicron Trilogy and not the first.

My opinion too. Not enough in the parts count for 4 drones, even dead siple ones. And I do t see how the lower legs would be thin enough to fit one

I'm hoping for a G2 version of ER Optimus. That would be cool.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I'm hoping for a G2 version of ER Optimus. That would be cool.

Slightly different colors? Black trailer? Backpack with guns?

I could do with that.

It's possible the reason they made Prime's trailer so simple in the first place was so they could spend the money saved elsewhere in the line. Hasbro is known for tricks like that.

Emerje

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I'm hoping for a G2 version of ER Optimus. That would be cool.

Slightly different colors? Black trailer? Backpack with guns?

I could do with that.

Something like this would make me consider buying that figure

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I'm hoping for a G2 version of ER Optimus. That would be cool.

Slightly different colors? Black trailer? Backpack with guns?

I could do with that.

Well, they wouldn't necessarily change the blue and red used.
But yeah, the black trailer with the red decals, the air conditioner/backpack with the cannons if possible... Mmm.

I'd also love to see a G2 redeco of Apex Optimus/God Ginrai, but they're unlikely to do that.

On the original, the extra piece on the trailer was a soundbox. Would you want that on this update as well?

Rodimus Prime wrote:On the original, the extra piece on the trailer was a soundbox. Would you want that on this update as well?

Maybe not as an electronics sound box but definitely as a missile pack.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:On the original, the extra piece on the trailer was a soundbox. Would you want that on this update as well?

Maybe not as an electronics sound box but definitely as a missile pack.

Yeah, I would want it as well, I just wasn't sure if a part with electronics would kick up the price on the figure.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:On the original, the extra piece on the trailer was a soundbox. Would you want that on this update as well?

Maybe not as an electronics sound box but definitely as a missile pack.

Yeah, I would want it as well, I just wasn't sure if a part with electronics would kick up the price on the figure.

Oh, newly-added electronics would most certainly add to a figure's budget.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:On the original, the extra piece on the trailer was a soundbox. Would you want that on this update as well?

Maybe not as an electronics sound box but definitely as a missile pack.

Yeah, I would want it as well, I just wasn't sure if a part with electronics would kick up the price on the figure.

Oh, newly-added electronics were most certainly add to a figure's budget.

... and more up TakaraTomy's alley, really. Even then, they'd more than likely recycle soundclips from previous releases.

私にいい考えがある!

Or they'd record all-new voiceclips from Tessho Genda and get so caught up in hyping that fact that they slacked off on quality control.

From the TF Facebook page:



A look at the whole map, and confirmation of 4 waves.....I wonder with all shows and conventions being cancelled for the forseeable future, how Hasbro will reveal toys later in this line?

Also

What TF character is annoying enough to pull this off for us? Wheelie?, Kremzeek?

Interesting, didn't quite realise that the different size classes had different sized pieces

o.supreme wrote:I wonder with all shows and conventions being cancelled for the forseeable future, how Hasbro will reveal toys later in this line?

Probably via Hasbro Pulse.

Emerje wrote:It's possible the reason they made Prime's trailer so simple in the first place was so they could spend the money saved elsewhere in the line. Hasbro is known for tricks like that.

Emerje

That is a good point, but also, how complex does OP's trailer really need to be? I think they hit all the necessary benchmarks with the Earthrise one. And I know a lot of peeps where sad there wasn't a roller but if that's what it takes to make the trailer package "complete" then we've got it pretty good

M. Spector wrote:

Emerje wrote:It's possible the reason they made Prime's trailer so simple in the first place was so they could spend the money saved elsewhere in the line. Hasbro is known for tricks like that.

Emerje

That is a good point, but also, how complex does OP's trailer really need to be? I think they hit all the necessary benchmarks with the Earthrise one. And I know a lot of peeps where sad there wasn't a roller but if that's what it takes to make the trailer package "complete" then we've got it pretty good

Think scaled down new mp optimus trailer or even the G1 trailer and then it will hit the benchmarks but with titan master compatability. There were no benchmarks hit with the earthrise one, maybe the drone being removable (tho it's not as positional on the trailer) and the shield that impacts how the trailer door opens was kind of a fail too.
*the only credit I can give it is the compatability for studio series figures.

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I wonder with all shows and conventions being cancelled for the forseeable future, how Hasbro will reveal toys later in this line?

Probably via Hasbro Pulse.

Everything for this year has already been revealed, no?

For the calendar year/mainline perhaps.... But There are still several selects to be revealed, and exclusives (beyond just names in computer systems), that we haven't seen any pictures of yet. Also the entire 4th wave, which will probably be Q1 2021, some of which probably would have been shown, or at least hinted at SDCC, and other shows internationally during the summer.