New TFC Reflector Images and WWII Style Tanks

I sure do like that camera mode.

Sure look like PCC ports to me on those tanks. While I admire the detail on these and look forward to seeing the finished product, if they are for the PCC's then I think they are making a mistake by producing these. The demand wont be there. If, however, these are for another type of combiner then I'm stoked to find out what the other components are. Hopefully something along the lines of the GI JOE/TF crossover set back in WW1, at least in terms of general style and tone of the comic. Obviously these tanks are newer than that era's vehicles.

I like the modernized take on Reflector and it's cool that he is 1:1 scale with actual cameras. Not too much of a stretch considering that all of our cameras/phones/gadgets are shrinking.

its kinda funny how so many dont like pcc (personally just started getting the 2 packs and i get a minicon for unicron and a cool scout figure ) but i guarantee if someone comes out with a couple of figures for the commanders their price will jump. then alot of the same people will suddenly want them. cough energon combiners...cough.

Already pre ordered the Perfect Effect version, so this will only serve as a means of buyer remorse.

The tanks are VERY interesting. I agree that the "port" in question does look like a PCC, the insignia appear to be on the chests of robot modes. Perhaps a transforming PCC limbs would sell. Plus, I love Transformers with antique alt. modes. More info please and thank you.

GetRightRobot wrote:Already pre ordered the Perfect Effect version, so this will only serve as a means of buyer remorse.

The tanks are VERY interesting. I agree that the "port" in question does look like a PCC, the insignia appear to be on the chests of robot modes. Perhaps a transforming PCC limbs would sell. Plus, I love Transformers with antique alt. modes. More info please and thank you.

That's pretty much the deal breaker with those of us not overly fond of PCC's. The fact that the drones don't transform kind of messes with the whole concept of naming them "Transformers". Some of the Commander 2 packs interest me and I still may yet purchase Huffer but I just can't seem to justify picking up the other Commanders. I don't want to have a figure with a function that will just be wasted since I won't be buying any of the 5 packs. My one exception is the Dinobot's PCC but that is going to look foolish having anything other than it's original components combined with it.
If these tanks are more like Gestalt units, I'll be seriously tempted to get them even if I don't go for the other pieces that may possibly follow just because these are some very sweet looking tanks.

That's pretty much the deal breaker with those of us not overly fond of PCC's. The fact that the drones don't transform kind of messes with the whole concept of naming them "Transformers". Some of the Commander 2 packs interest me and I still may yet purchase Huffer but I just can't seem to justify picking up the other Commanders. I don't want to have a figure with a function that will just be wasted since I won't be buying any of the 5 packs. My one exception is the Dinobot's PCC but that is going to look foolish having anything other than it's original components combined with it.
If these tanks are more like Gestalt units, I'll be seriously tempted to get them even if I don't go for the other pieces that may possibly follow just because these are some very sweet looking tanks.

Agreed. I actually bought 3 of the 5 packs. I imagined that a few of the drones, repainted and swapped around, might yield some G1 gestalt goodness. I was wrong and quickly lost interest in PCC altogether. But somehow I feel like maybe I need to investigate any PCC commanders that have an antique alt. mode. G.I. Joe crossover, Hearts of Steel combiner, Call-of-Duty-World-at-War-atron? All things that would appeal to me.

I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

actually there are some pretty awesome combinations you can make with the PCC guys if you buy the right ones

I like to take Crankcase and the Destrons i think it is and give the helicopter and plane to bombshock to make a PCC bruticus. then hook crankcase up with the rallybots to make Menasor.

Also Darkstream with the destructicons looks sweet. I wish they sold everything separately. Like the main figures and the drones on the side

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

Are we thinking that the star on the other tank is Russian or American? It's hard to tell without colour.

I love the fact that TFClub's Reflector can make use of real camera accessories, but unless it's a real working camera I really don't see the point. Still preferring Perfect Effect's.

The PCC figures definitely have a use. Remember when you were a kid and liked to smash some of your toys with a brick or a hammer just to see what they looked like obliterated? Well now you can keep your good toys in one piece and use these crappy things for the"scrapheap".

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

I'm aware of its pre-WWII history, and I'm aware it's still used today in the military, and no I'm definitely not confusing it with the swastika. As a military decoration, the Iron Cross is no longer awarded.

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

I'm aware of its pre-WWII history, and I'm aware it's still used today in the military, and no I'm definitely not confusing it with the swastika. As a military decoration, the Iron Cross is no longer awarded.

The tanks are clearly from the WWII era, so why do you find it to be in bad taste? Do you just have an issue with Germany as a nation?

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

I'm aware of its pre-WWII history, and I'm aware it's still used today in the military, and no I'm definitely not confusing it with the swastika. As a military decoration, the Iron Cross is no longer awarded.

The tanks are clearly from the WWII era, so why do you find it to be in bad taste? Do you just have an issue with Germany as a nation?

First of all, I wasn't complaining about the tanks. Second, you pretty much know the answer to your first question. Third, I don't have any problems with Germany.

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

I'm aware of its pre-WWII history, and I'm aware it's still used today in the military, and no I'm definitely not confusing it with the swastika. As a military decoration, the Iron Cross is no longer awarded.

The tanks are clearly from the WWII era, so why do you find it to be in bad taste? Do you just have an issue with Germany as a nation?

First of all, I wasn't complaining about the tanks. Second, you pretty much know the answer to your first question. Third, I don't have any problems with Germany.

I REALLY don't know why you "strongly disapprove" of its use as you haven't actually said. And I don't know you, so I wouldn't be aware of any personal reasons that would make you take issue with it. I'm not trying to turn this into a huge 'fight for the honour of a nation' argument. You have simply made a fairly powerful statement, and I'd like to respectfully know your reasons as it may change my opinion.

What are the odds that one of the tanks is Brawl?

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

I'm aware of its pre-WWII history, and I'm aware it's still used today in the military, and no I'm definitely not confusing it with the swastika. As a military decoration, the Iron Cross is no longer awarded.

The tanks are clearly from the WWII era, so why do you find it to be in bad taste? Do you just have an issue with Germany as a nation?

First of all, I wasn't complaining about the tanks. Second, you pretty much know the answer to your first question. Third, I don't have any problems with Germany.

I REALLY don't know why you "strongly disapprove" of its use as you haven't actually said. And I don't know you, so I wouldn't be aware of any personal reasons that would make you take issue with it. I'm not trying to turn this into a huge 'fight for the honour of a nation' argument. You have simply made a fairly powerful statement, and I'd like to respectfully know your reasons as it may change my opinion.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

I'm going to guess that atleast one of you are currently checking wikipedia for info because neither of you are historians OR in the German military. Here's an idea, agree that PCC sucks and only a monumental 3rd party creation could possibly save them!!! See? Now everyone gets along!!

GetRightRobot wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:

It Is Him wrote:I strongly disapprove of the Iron Cross. It's in bad taste.

I do hope you're just confusing the Iron Cross with the swastika. The swastika would be in terrible taste, but the Iron Cross is just a German military decoration, much like the Congressional Medal of Honour. It was first created back in the 19th century, so did not have anything to do with the Nazis. There shouldn't be a problem with its use.

I'm aware of its pre-WWII history, and I'm aware it's still used today in the military, and no I'm definitely not confusing it with the swastika. As a military decoration, the Iron Cross is no longer awarded.

The tanks are clearly from the WWII era, so why do you find it to be in bad taste? Do you just have an issue with Germany as a nation?

First of all, I wasn't complaining about the tanks. Second, you pretty much know the answer to your first question. Third, I don't have any problems with Germany.

I REALLY don't know why you "strongly disapprove" of its use as you haven't actually said. And I don't know you, so I wouldn't be aware of any personal reasons that would make you take issue with it. I'm not trying to turn this into a huge 'fight for the honour of a nation' argument. You have simply made a fairly powerful statement, and I'd like to respectfully know your reasons as it may change my opinion.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Laugh. My. Arse off.

GetRightRobot wrote:I'm going to guess that atleast one of you are currently checking wikipedia for info because neither of you are historians OR in the German military. Here's an idea, agree that PCC sucks and only a monumental 3rd party creation could possibly save them!!! See? Now everyone gets along!!

What makes you say neither of us are historians? Were we wrong about something?

I will agree with you that PCC sucks in my opinion. Did I read recently that Hasbro have called time on them?

I'd still like It Is Him to provide a reason for what he said. I'll happily let it drop regardless of the answer, so long as he gives one.

But... but... Grimstone!

Alright fine, the rest of the line sucks. I don't think that 3rd party efforts could salvage it, either.

The tanks seem to be based on a German Tiger tank and a Russian T-34 tank, both from the WWII era. That would explain the Iron Cross and the Russian star. They look alright in alt mode, but PCC add ons are a bad idea, IMO.

Bear with me on this but what if they were marvel crossovers capt. america and the red skull? Probably not, but it would be quite unique. Anyways, I really want that Reflector..he looks perfect for my classics style collection

It seems to me that if anyone truly has a problem with the Iron Cross, they can just refuse to buy it. Wanting to halt the production of a line because it is deemed "offensive" smacks of censorship, dare I even say fascism?

I wonder if more WW2 themed tanks are coming? If that tank has a Hitler-esque face or swastika armband, I'm sold! Now where is my Churchill tank to fight him?

i personally find that iron cross just really out of place aestheticlly really.

I don't care about it's historical value as such. It doesn't make sense to me because it allies itself with a human military faction that isn't necessary on a TF. Not too many TF's have ever done that save for G1 Hound and the new WW2 plane dude (the name escapes me at the moment). Least i think he has American insignias on him.

Of course this is a 3rd party product so it's a free for all in terms of artistic interpretation as a matter of fact.

I really could care less but my first impression was that it was a bit odd. I don't know the context on which these figures were conceived so it stands to tell what the bigger picture for these figures really is.

What is odd is that neither figure has their respective symbols displayed in tank mode.

What combiner ports I can not any!

godzillabot wrote:What combiner ports I can not any!

Use your words godzillabot. Reword that in a proper sentence please

monstergrotusque wrote:

godzillabot wrote:What combiner ports I can not any!

Use your words godzillabot. Reword that in a proper sentence please

Oh dear….. I’m so sorry. I’m still new at the keyboard.

With that behind us I still can not see the combiner ports

NeoDarwinian wrote:It seems to me that if anyone truly has a problem with the Iron Cross, they can just refuse to buy it. Wanting to halt the production of a line because it is deemed "offensive" smacks of censorship, dare I even say fascism?

I wonder if more WW2 themed tanks are coming? If that tank has a Hitler-esque face or swastika armband, I'm sold! Now where is my Churchill tank to fight him?

I’m not sure if I’m authorized to welcome you, but....................
welcome to seibertron NeoDarwinian

godzillabot wrote:Oh dear….. I’m so sorry. I’m still new at the keyboard.

With that behind us I still can not see the combiner ports

To what figure are you refering too? The tanks or Reflector? What leads you, if i may assume that is where your going with the question, to the assumption that the tanks are meant to combine?

monstergrotusque wrote:

godzillabot wrote:Oh dear….. I’m so sorry. I’m still new at the keyboard.

With that behind us I still can not see the combiner ports

To what figure are you refering too? The tanks or Reflector? What leads you, if i may assume that is where your going with the question, to the assumption that the tanks are meant to combine?

You are correct, MG I would like to know where the ports on the tanks are please

godzillabot wrote:

monstergrotusque wrote:

godzillabot wrote:
You are correct, MG I would like to know where the ports on the tanks are please

Your guess is as good as mine bro! I haven't a clue what those tanks are all about to be honest. Look like stand alone figs to me but as to what their greater purpose is? Has yet to be revealed. All i know is that tanks don't turn my crank and i'm not much interested. As of yet anyhow.

Reflector on the other hand. I'll keep my eyes on.

I'm guessing the combiner ports people are mentioning are the combiner port looking holes on the front of each tank's vehicle mode.

however, if one's a german tank, and one is either russian or american, i don't see why they're combining.

Just in case anyone continues to be troubled by the markings on the German tank, the "Iron Cross" shown on it is specifically *wrong* for World War Two. German armor and aircraft in the second world war carried a "Balkan Cross," which has straight arms. It was adopted on German aircraft towards the end of the First World War, then revived for both aircraft and armor before the Second World War. German Aircraft of this time also all carried Swastikas, but armor rarely did. The "Balkenkreuz" was abandoned with the fall of the Nazi regime.

The symbol adopted by the German military AFTER World War Two was the Iron Cross, exactly like that shown on the toy. You can see it on any German tank today... but you would never have seen it on a German tank in World War Two.

The Iron Cross shape was used in a medal of the same name before World War One (originally by Prussia), during both World Wars, and is used in a modified form today. I think it is this tradition the toy is referencing.

Looking forward to seeing more images of the tanks. IMO there's too many joints and seems and ball/socket joints for them to be PCC appendages.

Sodan-1 wrote:I'd still like It Is Him to provide a reason for what he said. I'll happily let it drop regardless of the answer, so long as he gives one.

You know, truth is I should have kept my mouth shut, because I should have known better than to broach this topic. That said, I'm weary of any symbol that has been associated with the National Socialist party. In the U.S., the symbol of the Iron Cross is often co-opted with other imagery by hate groups as a subtle means to express their political affiliations. Yeah, I know the Iron Cross is still found on things like clothing here in the states, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Anti-Defamation League wrote:The Iron Cross without the swastika is also frequently used as a hate symbol in the same manner as the Nazi-era Iron Cross. It is sometimes used for shock effect as it conjures up images of Nazi Germany and its military without being explicitly Nazi itself. In this guise, it is often displayed on clothing and accessories.

Link

It Is Him wrote:

Sodan-1 wrote:I'd still like It Is Him to provide a reason for what he said. I'll happily let it drop regardless of the answer, so long as he gives one.

You know, truth is I should have kept my mouth shut, because I should have known better than to broach this topic. That said, I'm weary of any symbol that has been associated with the National Socialist party. In the U.S., the symbol of the Iron Cross is often co-opted with other imagery by hate groups as a subtle means to express their political affiliations. Yeah, I know the Iron Cross is still found on things like clothing here in the states, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Anti-Defamation League wrote:The Iron Cross without the swastika is also frequently used as a hate symbol in the same manner as the Nazi-era Iron Cross. It is sometimes used for shock effect as it conjures up images of Nazi Germany and its military without being explicitly Nazi itself. In this guise, it is often displayed on clothing and accessories.

Link

Wwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllll now. I sure am glad you managed to get that off your chest. I hope I don't upset anyone. On topic: I welcome anything that could possibly save the PCC trainwreck and the tanks generally look cool to me. OFF topic: I think we are all safe from political intrigue or influence at this site. Transformers either love humans or hate humans. Not brown humans or jew humans, ALL humans. However, if a plastic cross that might resemble a harmless military insignia that a tiny group of idiots uses discretely to display their ignorance offends you...... well, then MAYBE you're just a little sensitive.

Link[/quote]

godzillabot wrote:

NeoDarwinian wrote:It seems to me that if anyone truly has a problem with the Iron Cross, they can just refuse to buy it. Wanting to halt the production of a line because it is deemed "offensive" smacks of censorship, dare I even say fascism?

I wonder if more WW2 themed tanks are coming? If that tank has a Hitler-esque face or swastika armband, I'm sold! Now where is my Churchill tank to fight him?

I’m not sure if I’m authorized to welcome you, but....................
welcome to seibertron NeoDarwinian

Thanks for the welcome. I'm a long-time reader, first time poster.

As a descendant of them Neanderthal kids that Dinobot saved in Beast Wars, I'm offended that Hasbro made toys of the various Predacons that threatened all human existence. I'm also offended that I'm offended. The best offence is a good defence, supposedly.

The tanks look ok, Reflector looks pretty cool in camera mode. I'm not overly exited about any of them one way or the other though to be honest.

Reflector looks great but i wish it's a working camera.

These guys are swinging for the fence. QC is gonna make it or break it for me.

You guys are clowning about The Iron Cross, Hitler, Nazis, etc. Im laughing my ass off reading this argument !!!

Dont you think you guys are taking the whole "Iron Cross" thing a little too seriously ??? I mean cmon ??? Didnt we all laugh at this when we were kids ???

My points are valid, and for those of you who want to make light of of the fact that there are still groups who currently uphold racist and antisemitic ideologies here in the States and other parts of the world, then you have some growing up to do.

Blurrz wrote:We're here to talk about the toys.

The next person to talk about defunct symbols of past ideologies gets a slap on the wrist.

I'm done.

If the tanks are for PCC, I'll pass. I was disappointed when I bought Double clutch. I did like Huffer and use him for the drones to combine, but overall, as stated previously, the whole fact that the drones don't transform pus how bad Double Clutch is when tried to assemble him, just turns me away from PCC all together. I do like the way Reflector is coming along. I have the PE one preordered, but now I'm deciding whether Iwant this one instead. I need to see the bot modes too and whatever their accessories will do.


By the way, I did laugh at the Yosamite Sam cartoons back in the day. *holds wrist out*

Hmmm... I think with the wife's old Kodak digital camera, I could modify Reflector to be a working camera. As far as the Iron Cross debate, I see an Iron Cross and a star on two WW II tanks? C'mon guys, I see some potential there. How about Captain America and the Red Skull? lol

At first glance I got massively excited, thinking TFC were making a Brawl for Bruticus Maximus and a Guzzle.

After seeing the chests it would seem that this is not the case though

I have high hopes for that Reflector. I just hope they space out the releases a bit or else I will not be able to afford them and the Not Constructicons. I hope they do two releases, their current headsculpts look G1 toy accurate, if they have different headsculpts at their disposal a Cartoon accurate repaint could be on the cards. That is assuming they don't try to merge the Cartoon and G1 toy designs.

As for the PCC tanks, they look awesome. WW2 Tiger and T34 tanks! Sweet! Now if they do a Sherman and a Churchill we will have four limbs and the US, UK, USSR and Nazi Germany represented! If so, I will pick up Heavytread, so I will have a modern tank with 4 pet WW2 tanks!

Socialist toys? I think I just sharted.