New Images of Transformers Masterpiece MP-44 Optimus Prime 3.0 from Wonder Festival 2019 Winter

Rodimus Knight wrote:I'm sort of waiting for it to go on sale and then consider picking it up. I do like it, but that price is terrible.

PadForce wrote:Yeah obv sale would be ideal.

I assume it wont reach sale in the UK..

PadForce wrote:The more niche masterpieces (typically repaints) do tend to end up on sale. I guess price for MP 44 will mean lower stock will be reserved by the importers and it is less likely to go on sale. Never know though, might be surprised if people decide against shelling out so much £££ for a new version of a done to death character.

william-james88 wrote:

PadForce wrote:The more niche masterpieces (typically repaints) do tend to end up on sale. I guess price for MP 44 will mean lower stock will be reserved by the importers and it is less likely to go on sale. Never know though, might be surprised if people decide against shelling out so much £££ for a new version of a done to death character.

Yeah, you'd think, but so far there is only evidence against it. People are still calling foul for a $50 Optimus G1 cab and yet at the same time people are trying to find one. Same with all those G1 bees sold on e-bay for $20. There was diselief at the price of MP Megatron and MP BW Dinobot followed by both toys selling out Dinobot selling for a freakish amount on the secondary market. And what about Siege Shockwave who is being atacked with torches and pitchforks for being a leader price? That toy is hard to find too since a bunch of fans nabbed him. And now we have Optimus Prime, the main character of the franchise, if only a small bit of fans who know him want him that will still be a bunch of sales.

If those expensive statues have a market, then a $400 fully transforming toy does too.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:The mess of the hitch area is a lot less visible with all that blue on it

starfish wrote:Well, I appreciate and understand your position on KOs, even if I don’t agree with it. Thanks for taking the time out to explain your thinking, it’s much appreciated.

Peace and love!

ksquad80 wrote:Does anyone think that there will be a high-quality 3rd-party reproduction of MP-44?

I picked up the Infinite Transformations E.O.D. copy of MP-36 and I am really happy with it. It was $80 shipped on eBay, which was justifiable to my budget (the $250 for MP-36 was not). With MP-44 going for $350-$450, I'm back in the same boat in even deeper water.

Further, does anyone know what kind of timeline is typical for the 3rd-party copies to appear after the Masterpiece release.

Sorry if this upsets anyone who are Takara purists and don't like aftermarket rips. It just is what it is, my wallet isn't as fat as I'd like.

PadForce wrote:Id usually agree with the sentiment but the poster is not stealing.. and the demand only exists here because the official prices are so ludicrous. In this instance i think the company is making a rod for its own back.

I for one didnt hesitate to grab a KO ratbat because like f**k was i shelling out £100 - £150 for essentially a second soundwave just to have all the cassettes.

Looking at MP44, are they offering an english speaking version? No. Are they offering a cheaper non electronics version? No. Are they offering a cab only version? No.

Taking your Ferrari annecdote.. its more like wanting a DB9 10 - 15 years ago when they were the car to have, then deciding to buy the Jaguar sports car that basically copied the silhouette and cost £40k less.

sol magnus wrote:

PadForce wrote:Id usually agree with the sentiment but the poster is not stealing.. and the demand only exists here because the official prices are so ludicrous. In this instance i think the company is making a rod for its own back.

I for one didnt hesitate to grab a KO ratbat because like f**k was i shelling out £100 - £150 for essentially a second soundwave just to have all the cassettes.

Looking at MP44, are they offering an english speaking version? No. Are they offering a cheaper non electronics version? No. Are they offering a cab only version? No.

Taking your Ferrari annecdote.. its more like wanting a DB9 10 - 15 years ago when they were the car to have, then deciding to buy the Jaguar sports car that basically copied the silhouette and cost £40k less.

In your Ratbat example, I simply don't have a Ratbat. I wasn't going for Soundblaster pricing just to get a Ratbat. But by the same token, I don't want a KO. I don't want a lesser quality repro figure on my shelf. If I ever get around to it, I'd rather save up and shell out 60-70 bucks for just a Ratbat, if I want it that badly - or like a consumer with limited income, I will do without. Same with MP-44.

Do I purchase the occassional 3P figure? Sure, if there is no official equivalent, but even then I realize I'm probably not helping the cause by doing so. So far, for every one I've purchased, I've gotten the Takara equivalent...which currently amounts to Sunstreaker. They're better representations and better quality figures. The only reason the other guys can get any of my money is because HasTak simply hasn't produced the equivalent. I eagerly await Jazz, Brawn, Trailbreaker and Mirage (the other 3p figures I own) to get official versions, but I bet on the fact that they were far enough down the pipeline I'm not "taking" any money from HasTak by buying them. I bet wrong on Sunstreaker.

It's not about being a "purist", it's about being a fan of THE BRAND and not just the physical representation of the characters separated from all the marketing associated with it. Even living in a mercenary society bent on having it all as cheaply as possible, I have some rules. But that's just me.

Back to KO figures for a sec. They are IP theft, plain and simple. Your money is your money, but justifying the purchase of a KO by framing real MPs as "rip-offs" is just disingenuousjustification. Please don't take it as judgement, because I don't know you. But facts are facts, and laws are laws.

PadForce wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

PadForce wrote:Id usually agree with the sentiment but the poster is not stealing.. and the demand only exists here because the official prices are so ludicrous. In this instance i think the company is making a rod for its own back.

I for one didnt hesitate to grab a KO ratbat because like f**k was i shelling out £100 - £150 for essentially a second soundwave just to have all the cassettes.

Looking at MP44, are they offering an english speaking version? No. Are they offering a cheaper non electronics version? No. Are they offering a cab only version? No.

Taking your Ferrari annecdote.. its more like wanting a DB9 10 - 15 years ago when they were the car to have, then deciding to buy the Jaguar sports car that basically copied the silhouette and cost £40k less.

In your Ratbat example, I simply don't have a Ratbat. I wasn't going for Soundblaster pricing just to get a Ratbat. But by the same token, I don't want a KO. I don't want a lesser quality repro figure on my shelf. If I ever get around to it, I'd rather save up and shell out 60-70 bucks for just a Ratbat, if I want it that badly - or like a consumer with limited income, I will do without. Same with MP-44.

Do I purchase the occassional 3P figure? Sure, if there is no official equivalent, but even then I realize I'm probably not helping the cause by doing so. So far, for every one I've purchased, I've gotten the Takara equivalent...which currently amounts to Sunstreaker. They're better representations and better quality figures. The only reason the other guys can get any of my money is because HasTak simply hasn't produced the equivalent. I eagerly await Jazz, Brawn, Trailbreaker and Mirage (the other 3p figures I own) to get official versions, but I bet on the fact that they were far enough down the pipeline I'm not "taking" any money from HasTak by buying them. I bet wrong on Sunstreaker.

It's not about being a "purist", it's about being a fan of THE BRAND and not just the physical representation of the characters separated from all the marketing associated with it. Even living in a mercenary society bent on having it all as cheaply as possible, I have some rules. But that's just me.

Back to KO figures for a sec. They are IP theft, plain and simple. Your money is your money, but justifying the purchase of a KO by framing real MPs as "rip-offs" is just disingenuousjustification. Please don't take it as judgement, because I don't know you. But facts are facts, and laws are laws.

So when you buy your ratbat, how are you going to ensure it isnt a KO? Im curious because my whole problem with the ratbat situation was that Takara specifically chose not to give us an official way to buy it, other than with a soundwave repaint. Interested to know how you are going to go about it. If they are going to make such anti consumer choices ill buy the KOs all the way to the bank. I happily bought the official takara sojndwave and both of the 2x cassette boxes, not cheap they chose not to offer ratbat for sale, i chose a ko. If theyd offered him for sale o wouldnt have had that issue and they would have my money.

I don't buy 3p figures so cant respond to you on that.

Re "rip offs" when did i say they were rip offs? Whilst i do think they are abusing market position with those prices, you using the words rips offs implies the product isnt worth anything.. which i dont agree with.

rip-offDictionary result for rip-off
/ˈrip ˌôf/Submit
nounINFORMAL
a fraud or swindle, especially something that is grossly overpriced.
"designer label clothes are just expensive rip-offs"
synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, confidence trick, mare's nest; More
an inferior imitation of something.
"rip-offs of all the latest styles"

PadForce wrote:So you are willing to pay a load of money with noguarantee it is not a ko? Ok.

Yes, it is anti - consumer. They specifically made that choice to get extra money out of the consumers, and its not just a bit, its 10x (meets your definition of rip-off) I am more than happy going the ko route if they are not going to provide reasonable ways for people to access their products.

Not sure how that is disengenous either.. im being quite clear that if Takara think they can force me to give them £100 because i want something worth £10, ill give them £0.

As ive said before, im considering getting mp44, i dont think it is a rip off. Yes it is overpriced. Is it a swindle? No.

dis·in·gen·u·ousDictionary result for disingenuous
/ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/Submit
adjective
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

-Kanrabat- wrote:There's those two new 3rd party offerings available right now that are perfectly fine and legal to get.

starfish wrote:“Anti-consumer”... “abusing”... Takara are the victims of illegal copyright theft yet you’re blaming THEM?

Hooray for victim-blaming! “She deserved it, officer!”

starfish wrote:It’s theft, pure and simple. It’s like buying a knock-off DVD. The price that Takara is charging is immaterial. It doesn’t matter if MP Ratbat costs $1000 or $1, if it’s a KO it’s illegal, and by owning one, you’re a party to that.

Justify it to yourself all you want, but don’t expect everyone to agree with you.

And your Jaguar example doesn’t prove anything. You’re essentially saying “someone else got away with it, so I should be able to, also.” So by your argument, does that mean I’m allowed to burgle your house, just because other burglars have occasionally gone unpunished?

PadForce wrote:Accidentally deleted the opening quote bit from this!

It's not possible to be "anti-consumer" when you're selling to consumers. That's an oxymoron. It's actually the height of capitalism. I'd argue the same thing, but in reverse. Getting more money out of people is capitalism. Perhaps to excess, but hey...that's why we have the ability to choose.

You are basing what you want and not willing pay for as a position that is strictly emotional. That's what's disingenuous. You don't want to spend the money, so blame Takara for you buying a KO. I'm not judging you for the action, just the reasoning behind the action. If "it's just too expensive" is the reason, then so be it. If it's "Takara is making me do this" is the reason, then that is disingenuous. Takara isn't "forcing you" to buy any of these figures. I know you know better. You don't have to have any of these figures. None of us do, despite whatever collector's addictions we may suffer from.

I dont understand that you say it is not possible to be anti consumer.. basically you are implying it is not possible for companies to try to extort money out of people? A successful business typically sells good quality goods that people want at reasonable prices to happy customers.. takara is not doing that by bundling goods together so if you want the lesser good you have to pay for the whole.. its not consumer friendly. Anyway i clearly dont understand or agree with you on this so happy to let it lie.

It is not an emotional decision, it is rational one. Ratbat is rationally not worth £100 (as i assign £0 value to soundblaster) so i decided not to buy it. How is that emotional rather than rational? To be clear as well i am not blaming (in the sense of "oh you've wronged me i am going to do this this and this") them, i am saying they have not provided a product i want to buy at the price they are asking, so ive brought sonething else. Im not angry about it, just stating a factual series of events.

ZeroWolf wrote:Wouldn't some of this discussion be better served in the KO and 3rd Party thread? (such as asking for a KO of mp 44)

I would have thought that by now people would have made their peace with the price tag, either you're buying it or not.

ZeroWolf wrote:Wouldn't some of this discussion be better served in the KO and 3rd Party thread? (such as asking for a KO of mp 44)

ZeroWolf wrote:Wouldn't some of this discussion be better served in the KO and 3rd Party thread? (such as asking for a KO of mp 44)

I would have thought that by now people would have made their peace with the price tag, either you're buying it or not.

-Kanrabat- wrote:It may have already been said somewhere, but maybe Takara is testing the waters with this price tag. And if that Optimus get instantly sold out as soon as the preorders are out, we should expect more of this kind of pricing for future releases. Frivolous accessories like "Cosplayer Starscream" or not.

Hellscream9999 wrote:If you ask me, TT are starting a battle they can't win; now, sure they can make this $450, and maybe we'll buy it, and sure they can splurge out a $120 bb, but, as you can see from that thread, their pricing strategy is already beginning to destroy this franchise; you can say they can price it whatever they want to for the 1% that will buy it, but that won't sustain the line.

-Kanrabat- wrote:It may have already been said somewhere, but maybe Takara is testing the waters with this price tag. And if that Optimus get instantly sold out as soon as the preorders are out, we should expect more of this kind of pricing for future releases. Frivolous accessories like "Cosplayer Starscream" or not.

ZeroWolf wrote:Yes kanra, I can see them doing repaints that are double the cost...but only if, come August this guy sells out completely. The first would likely be Nemesis prime

Ironhidensh wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:It may have already been said somewhere, but maybe Takara is testing the waters with this price tag. And if that Optimus get instantly sold out as soon as the preorders are out, we should expect more of this kind of pricing for future releases. Frivolous accessories like "Cosplayer Starscream" or not.

Pre orders are all soldout, but they are all unpaid. I'll be very interested to see how many people actually shell out the money come next fall. It won't be me, as I'm waiting for the KO and/or a super hot discount sale.

Still, I'm very curious to see how well this does, as like you say, its probably going to determine the fate of official masterpiece figures.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Not to sound like an elitist but those who are unwilling to pay the current MP-10 price will never, ever buy the new MPs anyway. Heck, the same can be said for the current TF lines with the price increasing this way (but fortunately the quality is going up again). If one is unwilling to pay the entry level price of a hobby, he will never ever go to the premium stuff. It's only a matter of life priorities and tastes.

sol magnus wrote:

PadForce wrote:Accidentally deleted the opening quote bit from this!

It's not possible to be "anti-consumer" when you're selling to consumers. That's an oxymoron. It's actually the height of capitalism. I'd argue the same thing, but in reverse. Getting more money out of people is capitalism. Perhaps to excess, but hey...that's why we have the ability to choose.

You are basing what you want and not willing pay for as a position that is strictly emotional. That's what's disingenuous. You don't want to spend the money, so blame Takara for you buying a KO. I'm not judging you for the action, just the reasoning behind the action. If "it's just too expensive" is the reason, then so be it. If it's "Takara is making me do this" is the reason, then that is disingenuous. Takara isn't "forcing you" to buy any of these figures. I know you know better. You don't have to have any of these figures. None of us do, despite whatever collector's addictions we may suffer from.

I dont understand that you say it is not possible to be anti consumer.. basically you are implying it is not possible for companies to try to extort money out of people? A successful business typically sells good quality goods that people want at reasonable prices to happy customers.. takara is not doing that by bundling goods together so if you want the lesser good you have to pay for the whole.. its not consumer friendly. Anyway i clearly dont understand or agree with you on this so happy to let it lie.

It is not an emotional decision, it is rational one. Ratbat is rationally not worth £100 (as i assign £0 value to soundblaster) so i decided not to buy it. How is that emotional rather than rational? To be clear as well i am not blaming (in the sense of "oh you've wronged me i am going to do this this and this") them, i am saying they have not provided a product i want to buy at the price they are asking, so ive brought sonething else. Im not angry about it, just stating a factual series of events.

How is a company extorting you to buy a non-essential product? How is this company extorting you? You don't have to buy it just because they sell it. Bottom line.

Buying toys is never a rational decision in the purest sense. You can rationalize the purchase, but that does not make it rational. It's emotional. If it wasn't it would be a weird looking toy in the shape of a bat with no other context. But because it's Ratbat, and you love Transformers (love is an emotion), and you love collecting (also emotional) you want one. You don't want to pay the money for a Soundblaster (emotional), so you'll go for a KO version of Ratbat (rational based on emotional decision).