New Image of Takara Transformers Unite Warriors UW-EX Baldigus / Ruination

Always love the artwork in these Japanese comics.
Always love to see other continuity Transformers introduced into G1.

Windsweeper wrote:Always love the artwork in these Japanese comics.
Always love to see other continuity Transformers introduced into G1.

Technically, in Japan; Baldigus is a part of G1 Continuity - Car Robots has been a part of Japanese G1 continuity for a long time. This comic finally explains how the heck that even works

Deadput wrote:Why is this absolutely dumb argument even happening?

WHY?!

This reminds me from the past debate Rumble being Red and Frenzy being blue
What's Next?
Roller is either G1 Roller or IDW Roller?

Damn, he looks good. Shame the hands and feet kinda suck (though the feet LOOK cool) because they're the only bitter nugget in an otherwise delicious stew of toy goodness.

He's being released in 9 days?! wow, that was a quick turnaround from his reveal

Black Hat wrote:Damn, he looks good. Shame the hands and feet kinda suck (though the feet LOOK cool) because they're the only bitter nugget in an otherwise delicious stew of toy goodness.

Takara evidently wanted to release those hands and feet into their market somehow, so this is their way of doing that. And it's a good way too since those feet better resemble how Bladigus's feet looked in the cartoon than the CW HFGs as feet do.

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Damn, he looks good. Shame the hands and feet kinda suck (though the feet LOOK cool) because they're the only bitter nugget in an otherwise delicious stew of toy goodness.

Takara evidently wanted to release those hands and feet into their market somehow, so this is their way of doing that. And it's a good way too since those feet better resemble how Bladigus's feet looked in the cartoon than the CW HFGs as feet do.

Oh I totally understand why they used them, I just don't like them. The hands are completely inarticulate, which sucks, and the feet have no forward-and-backward motion and are hollow shells, which also sucks. I think the feet at least LOOK the part, but compared to other hand options available, and even other hands HasTak has made (like Unicron's gorgeous grabbers) the single-cast fist lumps seem a bit feeble.

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:He's being released in 9 days?! wow, that was a quick turnaround from his reveal

He's up for preorder in Japan in 9 days

Black Hat wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Damn, he looks good. Shame the hands and feet kinda suck (though the feet LOOK cool) because they're the only bitter nugget in an otherwise delicious stew of toy goodness.

Takara evidently wanted to release those hands and feet into their market somehow, so this is their way of doing that. And it's a good way too since those feet better resemble how Bladigus's feet looked in the cartoon than the CW HFGs as feet do.

Oh I totally understand why they used them, I just don't like them. The hands are completely inarticulate, which sucks, and the feet have no forward-and-backward motion and are hollow shells, which also sucks. I think the feet at least LOOK the part, but compared to other hand options available, and even other hands HasTak has made (like Unicron's gorgeous grabbers) the single-cast fist lumps seem a bit feeble.

To be fair, though, the HFGs as feet have zero ankle articulation, so the CW computron feet at least offer some diversity in posable stances. And all we really need the hands to do is hold each gun in its grip. Otherwise, as long as the hands can each make a fist for Baldigus to punch his foes, I'd say they serve their purpose decently enough. It's not like Baldigus is gonna need open palms to hive-five, wave to, or slap somebody.

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:He's being released in 9 days?! wow, that was a quick turnaround from his reveal

He's up for preorder in Japan in 9 days

Oh, I somehow missed the "pre" in the order

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Damn, he looks good. Shame the hands and feet kinda suck (though the feet LOOK cool) because they're the only bitter nugget in an otherwise delicious stew of toy goodness.

Takara evidently wanted to release those hands and feet into their market somehow, so this is their way of doing that. And it's a good way too since those feet better resemble how Bladigus's feet looked in the cartoon than the CW HFGs as feet do.

Oh I totally understand why they used them, I just don't like them. The hands are completely inarticulate, which sucks, and the feet have no forward-and-backward motion and are hollow shells, which also sucks. I think the feet at least LOOK the part, but compared to other hand options available, and even other hands HasTak has made (like Unicron's gorgeous grabbers) the single-cast fist lumps seem a bit feeble.

To be fair, though, the HFGs as feet have zero ankle articulation, so the CW computron feet at least offer some diversity in posable stances. And all we really need the hands to do is hold each gun in its grip. Otherwise, as long as the hands can each make a fist for Baldigus to punch his foes, I'd say they serve their purpose decently enough. It's not like Baldigus is gonna need open palms to hive-five, wave to, or slap somebody.

Yeah I suppose, I'm just a big fan of articulated hands in general. They're fun. And I must be honest, whilst they SUCKED as feet, HFGs made pretty good hands and surprisingly good weapons.

My ideal setup for hands and feet would be hands done like HFGs but with the fingers done differently to allow for more poses, and the feet being largely one-piece, hefty boots with tight ball-joints for ankles, optional plug-on guns for the ankle pegs which could turn them into little gun turrets when not combined, and unique sculpts for every combiner (so Bruticus' could have sculpted treads on them so when decombined they could form little tanks, Menasor's would be made to look a bit like "battle bikes" when not combined and would as such make his combiner mode look like it had rollerblades, etc). Granted it'd probably go way over budget, but hey, maybe if I get my own 3P company.

Admittedly if the HFGs had to be forgone for any set, it's a shame it had to be forgone on a set with the tank mold. While said mold has so many negatives, it's HFG integration with the twin cannons sitting on the back to replicate the original toy's weapon is really neat and I love posing Brawl's vehicle mode like that.

Black Hat wrote:Yeah I suppose, I'm just a big fan of articulated hands in general. They're fun. And I must be honest, whilst they SUCKED as feet, HFGs made pretty good hands and surprisingly good weapons.

At the very least, the hands aren't like the original toy's G1-molded fists, which were solid pieces of hollowed-out plastic:

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Yeah I suppose, I'm just a big fan of articulated hands in general. They're fun. And I must be honest, whilst they SUCKED as feet, HFGs made pretty good hands and surprisingly good weapons.

At the very least, the hands aren't like the original toy's G1-molded fists, which were solid pieces of hollowed-out plastic:

Yeah, no kidding. One of the things I love about Piranacon is his non-hollow hands (with big ol' spikes on 'em!).

If/when I get this set, I might get an RID Ruination/Baldigus, give the UW figures some PE hands and feet (if they don't make the mustard yellow ones I'll go for the grey I think) and give the UW hands and feet to the old figures. The articulation wouldn't be an issue and I think they'd look good on him.

Kurona wrote:Admittedly if the HFGs had to be forgone for any set, it's a shame it had to be forgone on a set with the tank mold. While said mold has so many negatives, it's HFG integration with the twin cannons sitting on the back to replicate the original toy's weapon is really neat and I love posing Brawl's vehicle mode like that.

To be fair to Dangar/Armorhide, he only wore and used his tank mode's double cannons once in a single episode, and without fanfare or even a name for his attack that used them (his use of them was part of a group attack by all five combining Combatrons/Commandos firing all of their guns on Scourge's/Black Convoy's order to fire). Every other appearance of his tank mode in the series featured it without the extra cannons.

It would have been nice for this toy to have included something to represent those extra twin cannons, but I am glad that they at least included an extra handgun to represent the original's handgun ("Dangar Gun") that was a different weapon from his tank gun ("Dangar Cannon").

If need be, finding another extra HFG on the secondary market shouldn't be much of a task.

Sabrblade wrote:

Kurona wrote:Admittedly if the HFGs had to be forgone for any set, it's a shame it had to be forgone on a set with the tank mold. While said mold has so many negatives, it's HFG integration with the twin cannons sitting on the back to replicate the original toy's weapon is really neat and I love posing Brawl's vehicle mode like that.

To be fair to Dangar/Armorhide, he only wore and used his tank mode's double cannons once in a single episode, and without fanfare or even a name for his attack that used them (his use of them was part of a group attack by all five combining Combatrons/Commandos firing all of their guns on Scourge's/Black Convoy's order to fire). Every other appearance of his tank mode in the series featured it without the extra cannons.

It would have been nice for this toy to have included something to represent those extra twin cannons, but I am glad that they at least included an extra handgun to represent the original's handgun ("Dangar Gun") that was a different weapon from his tank gun ("Dangar Cannon").

If need be, finding another extra HFG on the secondary market shouldn't be much of a task.

Oh true, I'm just talking about playability rather than accuracy.
And yeah it is essentially a nitpick; definitely no big flaw of the set or anything especially when the feet we got instead are both better articulated and better proportioned. It's a great trade-off and like you said, can just grab a random HFG. In my particular case it's not like Offroad's is doing anything

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I just think it speaks volumes that so many of us fans assumed Wandering Roller was Roller from the original series.

Maybe here on Seibertron, but in other places, back when the Grand Galvatron set was revealed, others were going "Hey, it's IDW Roller!" almost immediately after the reveal happened. Even here on this board did we have such folks as Mindmaster and SW's SilverHammer who were quick to recognize him as IDW Roller.

Hey, I was right there thinking it was IDW Roller as well, but with two more comics since then and more time to think about it I changed my mind.

I mean, since when is MTMTE considered "obscure" by this fandom in this day and age? It's arguably the most popular English-language Transformers fiction in the whole fandom at this present time.

Just because the comic isn't obscure doesn't mean the characters in it can't be. I mean, we're talking about a character that only had, what, four or five significant appearances in three years from 2012 to 2015 before Wandering Roller was made? Sounds pretty obscure to me, not everyone commits the comics to memory.

But the story doesn't call him "Breakdown", it calls him "War Breakdown". Breakdown was renamed "War Breakdown" in the Japanese dub of the Prime cartoon. Plus, multiple characters can have the same name. This Baldigus comic alone contains a team called the Combatrons who Megatronia even remarks as a different set of Combatrons from those who form Bruticus. IDW's even made a whole deal about two guys both named "Tankor".

OK, now you've lost me. You're the one that said the story calls him Breakdown and asking how I could be so sure it was the same Breakdown from Prime. So now why are you going off about how it's so obvious that they aren't the same for the same reasons why I said they aren't the same?

Being a G1 version of Armada Thrust wouldn't make a G1-transplanted Armada Thrust analogue automatically be the same guy as G1 Thrust. It would just make him yet another guy named "Thrust" in a G1 setting.

Again, I didn't say it would, that was YOUR original argument on how I could be so sure about Thrust and Breakdown but not be sure about Roller. Why are you suddenly trying to make it sound like I think it's also G1 Thrust and Breakdown? I mean, the figure is called "Armada Thrust" it doesn't get any more on the nose than that.

Though, you're accepting what is said about that Thrust having dealt with Unicron at "face value" (which you use later), so why is there some sort of double-standard for when it comes to Roller?

It isn't a double standard, it's a lack of evidence. The bio is written in such a way that it can easily apply to G1 Roller, his image in the comic is obscured with shadow unlike the other two as if it was being used as an Easter egg, but not meant to actually be the character, and his exchange with Optimus is strange since clearly after hopping through space/dimensions it seems unlikely that he'd believe this was IDW Optimus if he were IDW Roller.

Oh really? Well, how about all of those originally non-G1 characters whom Fun Pub, and IDW (and even Hasbro via their Legends mobile game), have just straight up put into G1 settings with their original non-G1 designs carried over wholecloth? Knock Out. "Breakdown". Thunderhoof. Synapse (top-right Armada Sparkplug-looking dude). Twirl. Overrun/Surge. Wind Sheer. Skyfire. Bulkhead. Hot Shot. Heavy Barrel (based on an Armada Mini-Con). All of them are G1 characters based on non-G1 characters and whose designs look exactly like those of the non-G1 chracters they're based on, rather than their designs having been changed to look like any G1 characters who may or may not happen to share their names.

Or what of those whose designs Fun Pub/IDW/etc. only changed a little but still look like their non-G1 counterparts? Override. Lightbright. Sky-Byte. Skidmark (based on an Armada Mini-Con). Treadshot. Ransack. Crumplezone. Ser-Ket (bottom-right winged one).

Maybe I missunderstood, I thought you were talking about times when one character was used to represent another character without altertaions. There's a number of those as well which I feel is the case with Roller.

But doesn't a character's robot mode matter more than its altmode when it comes to the character's personal identity? After all, we're talking about a race of robotic people that turn into objects, not a race of sentient objects that turn into humanoid robots. They're robots in disguise, meaning the altmode is a disguise, as in a falsehood that hides the character's true nature. Thus, shouldn't we be looking to the robot mode, rather than the altmode, for determining "who", rather than "what", a character personally is?

Tell that to the Dinobots. But I don't think it's impossible for there to be a Transformer out there that would just rather be a six-wheeled buggy hanging out in Prime's trailer all day instead. Never stopped a bunch of guys from hanging out in Soundwave and Blaster's chests until they're needed.

But there are Japanese fans of the IDW comics. Just last BotCon there were a bunch of Japanese people coming up to Sakamoto's Artist Alley booth asking him to draw IDW-original characters like Nickel and Sunder.

That's great and I'm sure there are others out there, but that doesn't make them a significant percent of the Japanese Transformers fandom.

The Japanese IDW fandom may not be huge, but that there is one shows that there are Japanese fans hardcore enough to be into those comics, and it's those kinds of hardcore Transformers fans (of any country) that Sakamoto likes to throw bones to with his hardcore brand of continuity fanwank.

Neat, but doesn't make it IDW Roller.

Emerje

TF Fans Sanchimaru and Jalaguy have put together a translation of the Unite Warriors Baldigus comic that was released a short while ago from Takara. This is very fun for western fans since it gives them a look at the Japanese G1 continuity which includes Car Robots (Robots in Disguise). Since Car Robots takes place in the future, this becomes a time travel story. Speaking of other oddities, this comic also has a "reunion" between Otpimus Prime and Roller, or at least Roller thinks so. It ends with a twist of Scourge stepping into the picture (which Scourge though?) and Galvatron revealing who he really is (but does it make sense?). Let us know what you think of the comic. And as a refresher, you will also find a translation for the Grand Galvatron comic to see if it helps understand this new comic (or not).

Note that this translation uses the English names and terms for the Car Robots characters and terminalogy (minus Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy), so there might some slight confusion in that regard (i.e. - RiD Scourge's Japanese name was Black Convoy, while UW Grand Scourge is already that guy's Japanese name).

@Will - Why is the Grand Galvatron comic (which take place three stories before the Baldigus comic) included?

Sabrblade wrote:Note that this translation uses the English names and terms for the Car Robots characters and terminalogy (minus Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy), so there might some slight confusion in that regard (i.e. - RiD Scourge's Japanese name was Black Convoy, while UW Grand Scourge is already that guy's Japanese name).

@Will - Why is the Grand Galvatron comic (which take place three stories before the Baldigus comic) included?

For people to see how the galvatron revelation makes no damn sense, and for people to catch up on our roller convo Also, because its a new translation we never newsed.

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Yeah I suppose, I'm just a big fan of articulated hands in general. They're fun. And I must be honest, whilst they SUCKED as feet, HFGs made pretty good hands and surprisingly good weapons.

At the very least, the hands aren't like the original toy's G1-molded fists, which were solid pieces of hollowed-out plastic

Woah woah, wait. From reading these boards, I always thought hollowed out plastic was a recent thing and could not possibly have been found in the sacred G1 era.

Sabrblade wrote:

Kurona wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I was reading the comic and if the Roller that comes with Grand galvatron is IDW Roller, then this exchange makes no sense whatsoever:

Well, it is just Roller talking there. Doesn't give Optimus a chance to say anything more than his name. Maybe he's just a bit delusional

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:Well I mean, the only thing Optimus says is "Roller!", and it looks like Roller is implying they can talk later and maybe not know that this Prime isn't his. Plus, Prime could have been informed by either the Oracle or by combination with the others that this guy was Roller and he was angry.

Indeed!

Plus, Will, were you not the same william-james88 who wrote this post about Wandering Roller being IDW Roller back around when the Grand Galvatron set was revealed?

Yes that is me, but that was me before:
- it was confirmed that Roller wasnt Tarn
- I owne the toy
- I saw at what lengths you and Emerje would go to prove a point

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Note that this translation uses the English names and terms for the Car Robots characters and terminalogy (minus Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy), so there might some slight confusion in that regard (i.e. - RiD Scourge's Japanese name was Black Convoy, while UW Grand Scourge is already that guy's Japanese name).

@Will - Why is the Grand Galvatron comic (which take place three stories before the Baldigus comic) included?

For people to see how the galvatron revelation makes no damn sense, and for people to catch up on our roller convo Also, because its a new translation we never newsed.

You want the Lynxmaster and Megatronia comic translations those guys did as well?

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Note that this translation uses the English names and terms for the Car Robots characters and terminalogy (minus Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy), so there might some slight confusion in that regard (i.e. - RiD Scourge's Japanese name was Black Convoy, while UW Grand Scourge is already that guy's Japanese name).

@Will - Why is the Grand Galvatron comic (which take place three stories before the Baldigus comic) included?

For people to see how the galvatron revelation makes no damn sense, and for people to catch up on our roller convo Also, because its a new translation we never newsed.

You want the Lynxmaster and Megatronia comic translations those guys did as well?

Na, those dont conrtibute to the Roller debate

But I dont remember seeing the lynx master translation, so by all means please post it here

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Note that this translation uses the English names and terms for the Car Robots characters and terminalogy (minus Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy), so there might some slight confusion in that regard (i.e. - RiD Scourge's Japanese name was Black Convoy, while UW Grand Scourge is already that guy's Japanese name).

@Will - Why is the Grand Galvatron comic (which take place three stories before the Baldigus comic) included?

For people to see how the galvatron revelation makes no damn sense, and for people to catch up on our roller convo Also, because its a new translation we never newsed.

You want the Lynxmaster and Megatronia comic translations those guys did as well?

Na, those dont conrtibute to the Roller debate

But I dont remember seeing the lynx master translation, so by all means please post it here

Lynxmaster - http://imgur.com/a/Mf8v2
Megatronia - http://imgur.com/a/WqIA9

Like the Grand Galvatron and Baldigus comic translations, these use the English names, so we got "Sky Reign" in place of "Lynxmaster" and "Optimus Maximus" in place of "Convoy Grand Prime".

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Black Hat wrote:Yeah I suppose, I'm just a big fan of articulated hands in general. They're fun. And I must be honest, whilst they SUCKED as feet, HFGs made pretty good hands and surprisingly good weapons.

At the very least, the hands aren't like the original toy's G1-molded fists, which were solid pieces of hollowed-out plastic

Woah woah, wait. From reading these boards, I always thought hollowed out plastic was a recent thing and could not possibly have been found in the sacred G1 era.

Sabrblade wrote:

Kurona wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I was reading the comic and if the Roller that comes with Grand galvatron is IDW Roller, then this exchange makes no sense whatsoever:

Well, it is just Roller talking there. Doesn't give Optimus a chance to say anything more than his name. Maybe he's just a bit delusional

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:Well I mean, the only thing Optimus says is "Roller!", and it looks like Roller is implying they can talk later and maybe not know that this Prime isn't his. Plus, Prime could have been informed by either the Oracle or by combination with the others that this guy was Roller and he was angry.

Indeed!

Plus, Will, were you not the same william-james88 who wrote this post about Wandering Roller being IDW Roller back around when the Grand Galvatron set was revealed?

Yes that is me, but that was me before:
- it was confirmed that Roller wasnt Tarn
- I owne the toy
- I saw at what lengths you and Emerje would go to prove a point

I'm not quite sure how the first two are relevant? It's clear that while this is a version of IDW Roller it's not the actual main IDW timeline so what happens in that main timeline isn't really relevant. And I'm not sure how owning the toy changes anything?

Kurona wrote:And I'm not sure how owning the toy changes anything?

It makes me care more than before.

i wonder if we will have the RID(2000) repaint

Ultra Markus wrote:i wonder if we will have the RID(2000) repaint

Probably not, that one was a mess. The "urban camo" grey redeco on the other hand...

Besides, we haven't heard a peep from a possible Hasbro Blast-Off, and we already have an obligatory redeco: the G2 one.

Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Windsweeper wrote:Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Car Robots, you mean. Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 timeline, but the English RiD version is still its own non-G1 series. The English translation just went with the English names instead (save for Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy).

william-james88 wrote:- I saw at what lengths you and Emerje would go to prove a point

Sometimes you just feel the urge to make a point. But at least until the next comic or Sakamoto himself chimes in I'm going to put my side of the debate to rest. Not conceding or anything, it's just clear that we aren't going to change each other's minds.

Emerje

I wasn't planning to buy Baldigus, I already have the Hasbro versions of the Combaticons and I'm very happy with them, but I will admit the set looks really good, and the Commandos do have a bit of nostalgia value for me because Ro-Tor and Movor were my first ever Decepticon toys (this was The EARLY 2000'S before I knew anything about G1, I was only familiar with Beast Wars, Beast Machines and RID 2001 at that point, so to me Decepticons were a new exciting thing). With that being said, Megatronia will probably still be the last Combiner I buy.

As for the comic, I think the twist of Galvatron being the the Car Robots Galvatron II wasn't necessary, it just screws up the continuity. However the coffee milk line on the first page did make me laugh.

Munkky wrote:As for the comic, I think the twist of Galvatron being the the Car Robots Galvatron II

That's not who Galvatron II is.

Sabrblade wrote:

Munkky wrote:As for the comic, I think the twist of Galvatron being the the Car Robots Galvatron II

That's not who Galvatron II is.

I just knew you'd post before I could so I refreshed the page first.

This is Galvatron II.

Emerje

Sabrblade wrote:

Windsweeper wrote:Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Car Robots, you mean. Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 timeline, but the English RiD version is still its own non-G1 series. The English translation just went with the English names instead (save for Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy).

Interesting how the change of language/script makes a TF show a completely different thing. Like how the Unicron Trilogy is only a Hasbro thing. In Japan, Galaxy Force (Cybertron) is it's own independent continuity and not related to SuperLink (Energon).

Dr Va'al wrote:While this may not be part of the big Roller argument of 2016, the official Twitter account for Takara Tomy Transformers is informing its Japanese customers that Unite Warriors UW-EX Baldigus / Ruination is closer to preorder than ever, with 28th November being its TakaraTomyMall date. For the rest of us, here's a pretty picture of the combined redeco of Bruticus, including gold paint and new faction symbol!

Oh man... wish I had the spare dough for that so much.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Windsweeper wrote:Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Car Robots, you mean. Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 timeline, but the English RiD version is still its own non-G1 series. The English translation just went with the English names instead (save for Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy).

Interesting how the change of language/script makes a TF show a completely different thing. Like how the Unicron Trilogy is only a Hasbro thing. In Japan, Galaxy Force (Cybertron) is it's own independent continuity and not related to SuperLink (Energon).

Galaxy Force was initially it's own independent continuity, but then halfway through they decided to mirror what Hasbro was doing for some reason and quickly hash it into being connected to Micron Legend/Super Link.

News to me.

Sabrblade wrote:

Windsweeper wrote:Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Car Robots, you mean. Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 timeline, but the English RiD version is still its own non-G1 series. The English translation just went with the English names instead (save for Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy).

You can kinda blame FunPub for that. They put RiD in its own cluster (Viron), separate from G1 (Primax) without considering what TakaraTomy might do. It's quite possible that Takara has always considered Car Robots to be part of G1, and that their first proper reboot is Micron Legend (aka our Armada).

If that's the case, would that mean Hasbro jumped the gun?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Windsweeper wrote:Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Car Robots, you mean. Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 timeline, but the English RiD version is still its own non-G1 series. The English translation just went with the English names instead (save for Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy).

You can kinda blame FunPub for that. They put RiD in its own cluster (Viron), separate from G1 (Primax) without considering what TakaraTomy might do. It's quite possible that Takara has always considered Car Robots to be part of G1, and that their first proper reboot is Micron Legend (aka our Armada).

If that's the case, would that mean Hasbro jumped the gun?

To be fair, it's not like it fits comfortably into G1. It takes place in 2000 even though all sources at the time indicated the G1 Season 1/2 Autobots and Decepticons should be there (it took this comic to finally give an explanation), people are shocked at the appearance of transforming robots even though they've dealt with that for the last decade and a half, it's a bit bizarre that Brave Maximus, the Commandos etc all look exactly like other characters sans colours; and in the dub especially there's characters like Optimus Prime, Prowl, Megatron and Fortress Maximus who are... well... explicitly sharing names with important characters from G1. And there's absolutely no indication in the show or whatever that this is a part of G1 at all.
It can technically work but it took a lot of later explanation; one can easily see why someone could see this as a completely new continuity. Hell, I'd argue that at the time of each show's airing, it being in the G1 timeline would be as plausible as Armada fitting into the G1 timeline.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Windsweeper wrote:Love the artwork in these comics.

I like how they make RID part of G1.

Car Robots, you mean. Car Robots is part of the Japanese G1 timeline, but the English RiD version is still its own non-G1 series. The English translation just went with the English names instead (save for Brave Maximus and Fire Convoy).

You can kinda blame FunPub for that. They put RiD in its own cluster (Viron), separate from G1 (Primax) without considering what TakaraTomy might do. It's quite possible that Takara has always considered Car Robots to be part of G1, and that their first proper reboot is Micron Legend (aka our Armada).

If that's the case, would that mean Hasbro jumped the gun?

The Viron thing came from the AllSpark Almanac II book first before Fun Pub started using the Viron term. The book was written by Jim Sorenson (and Bill Forster), who has done and still does TF work for Fun Pub. At the time that Car Robots and RiD 2001 were airing on TV, Jim was living in Japan back then (as he's mentioned to folks a few times on another board) and, according to him, the Japanese originally did not view Car Robots as part of the JG1 cartoon timeline, instead seeing it as a reboot series.

However, in my own watching of the Japanese Car Robots cartoon in recent years, I noticed that there were some elements in the cartoon's Japanese version that seemed like attempts to tie the Car Robots cartoon with the other Transformers cartoons that had come before it in Japan (such as Fire Convoy possessing an Energon Matrix like the JBW Maximal leaders, and Vector Sigma being treated as the "god" of Cybertron like in Beast Wars Neo). But, a lot of these elements were either so vague or so unexplored that I suspect many Japanese fans at the time of the show's airing didn't seem to catch on to these elements' importance, and either ignored them or just took them as fanwank nods instead of continuity points, as the Japanese fans were very much surprised to see Car Robots be considered part of the JG1 timeline, according to Jim.

When I had my big Japanese continuity talk with Hayato Sakamoto at BotCon this year I learned that he was one of the people involved with making the big JG1 cartoon timeline that officially declared Car Robots to have been part of that timeline, and when I asked him about why Car Robots had been included, one of the reasons was because of RobotMasters Wreck Hook indeed being an amnesiac Car Robots Wrecker Hook (and the RobotMasters line consisted entirely of Primax character toys, with Double Face possibly being the lone exception), and that Brave Maximus showed up in RobotMaster as well (in his having returned to Earth after the Car Robots cartoon), and that the 2004 e-HOBBY G1 GoBots set toy bio said that when the GoBots in the set came to the Transformers universe (referring the Japanese G1 universe) their technology was used to create the Spychangers (and back in 2004, the only Spychangers that existed in Japanese TF lore were the Car Robots ones).

So maybe Takara might have possibly had it in the back of their minds to make Car Robots be a Primax series all along, but because of how little obvious effort was put into their actually doing so when the show was airing in Japan, the Japanese fandom didn't see it that way and saw its later inclusion in the JG1 timeline as a retcon (so says Jim).

And because any attempts to tie Car Robots back in with its predecessors were so subtle, both Hasbro and Saban were able to completely miss or ignore Car Robots' little continuity elements entirely, and succeeded in dubbing RiD 2001 as the first rebooted non-Primax cartoon, seemingly unaware of any G1 relation the show may or may not have had in its Japanese version at the time.

Kurona wrote:To be fair, it's not like it fits comfortably into G1. It takes place in 2000 even though all sources at the time indicated the G1 Season 1/2 Autobots and Decepticons should be there (it took this comic to finally give an explanation),

The explanation for the G1 seaons 1-2 characters' absence came originally from the big JG1 timeline of 2006/2007, which used The Battle of the Star Gate manga (awesome series, btw) to explain their absence. This Baldigus comic simply reiterates it.

Kurona wrote:people are shocked at the appearance of transforming robots even though they've dealt with that for the last decade and a half,

I kinda feel a lot of this shock was mostly circumstantial. In some cases, they were shocked by there mere appearance of the robots since they simply weren't expecting to see them pop up before them. Other times, the shock came from the surprise appearances of the Destrongers, whom the humans knew to be scared of. And in some other cases, there were humans who did know of the robots, as episode 3 had some train operators immediately recognize Fire Convoy as an ally.

Kurona wrote:it's a bit bizarre that Brave Maximus, the Commandos etc all look exactly like other characters sans colours;

Not quite. As this series took place in 2000, Fortress Maximus hadn't shown up yet, and none of the Car Robots Autobots or Destrongers even knew of Brave Maximus at first (the dub changed this so that everyone instantly knew who and what RiD Fort Max was). And the Combatrons may have been redecos of the G1 Combaticons, but their cartoon models were drastically different from each other. And, since the Car Robots cast originally all came from the future, did any of them even know or know of the G1 Combaticons?

Kurona wrote:and in the dub especially there's characters like Optimus Prime, Prowl, Megatron and Fortress Maximus who are... well... explicitly sharing names with important characters from G1.

Well, that's the dub. It can get away with that by its being a non-G1 continuity.

Kurona wrote:And there's absolutely no indication in the show or whatever that this is a part of G1 at all.

Like I said to JelZe above, there were some continuity elements in the original Car Robots version, but that they were so subtle may them easy for people to overlook.

Although, ironically, the RiD dub had a ton of G1/BW/BM references in it (many more than the original Car Robots version, and far more noticeable than those in Car Robots) that were enough to send the English-speaking fandom of the time (such as those on the old alt.toys.transformers Usenet newsgroup) into a frenzy with people futilely trying to figure out how the dub could fit into G1 continuity before coming to understand how the concept of a reboot series worked.

Kurona wrote:It can technically work but it took a lot of later explanation; one can easily see why someone could see this as a completely new continuity. Hell, I'd argue that at the time of each show's airing, it being in the G1 timeline would be as plausible as Armada fitting into the G1 timeline.

I think you mean as "implausible".

At the very least, the G1 cartoon had that huge gap between 1985 and 2005 to slot things like Car Robots into. But it sure is a good thing for Car Robots' sake that its characters all ended up originating from the future, and that the later-published Battle of the Star Gate manga offered an opening for Car Robots to slip in to the timeline with little-to-no intrusion.

I actually thought there was a cast iron character connection between Car Robots/RID & G1.

The character Auggie Cahnay!!! but shot myself down as Auggie Cahnay only appears in RID & G1 (US & Jap). The 'Auggie Cahnay' character in Car Robots was actually called Goldberg

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Auggie_Cahnay_(RID)
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Auggie_Cahnay_(G1)

I know Sabr hates this theory, but its another way of looking at a joint continuity. Protoman has said that Car Robots is G1 but in the future. FAAAAAR future. So g1 happened and then after that we got Beast Wars right? In the Japanese Beast Wars show, they stay in the future (unlike Beast Wars which goes to the past) and they go to earth. So we get an idea of what future earth looks like, and its baren. It looks a lot like primitive earth. The theory is that, in a cyclicle nature, humans rose up again from this primitive future to once again become industry savy so that they can end up in a setting which looks like the year 2000 (their year 2000). Which is where Car Robots takes place. And that makes sense when you look that car robots uses both g1 and Beast Wars models, meaning that it can only take place after both exist.

william-james88 wrote:I know Sabr hates this theory, but its another way of looking at a joint continuity. Protoman has said that Car Robots is G1 but in the future. FAAAAAR future. So g1 happened and then after that we got Beast Wars right? In the Japanese Beast Wars show, they stay in the future (unlike Beast Wars which goes to the past) and they go to earth. So we get an idea of what future earth looks like, and its baren. It looks a lot like primitive earth. The theory is that, in a cyclicle nature, humans rose up again from this primitive future to once again become industry savy so that they can end up in a setting which looks like the year 2000 (their year 2000). Which is where Car Robots takes place. And that makes sense when you look that car robots uses both g1 and Beast Wars models, meaning that it can only take place after both exist.

Car Robots is stated to take place in 2000. And in this very comic it's stated to take place specifically during a time between Season 2 and the Movie where the G1 Autobots and Decepticons were damaged from fighting. So...

william-james88 wrote:I know Sabr hates this theory, but its another way of looking at a joint continuity. Protoman has said that Car Robots is G1 but in the future. FAAAAAR future. So g1 happened and then after that we got Beast Wars right? In the Japanese Beast Wars show, they stay in the future (unlike Beast Wars which goes to the past) and they go to earth. So we get an idea of what future earth looks like, and its baren. It looks a lot like primitive earth. The theory is that, in a cyclicle nature, humans rose up again from this primitive future to once again become industry savy so that they can end up in a setting which looks like the year 2000 (their year 2000). Which is where Car Robots takes place. And that makes sense when you look that car robots uses both g1 and Beast Wars models, meaning that it can only take place after both exist.

A problem with that theory is that it would put Brave Maximus being on Earth after the Angolmois energy had already been taken from it in BWII and Neo, when Brave Maximus's purpose of being on Earth in Car Robots was to protect the "Gaia energy" ("Gaia" being the name that Earth would be called in the far future). The Kiss Players Position and 15 Go! Go! fiction from 2007 would later clarify that this "Gaia energy" was indeed the Angolmois of BWII and Neo, and that Primus/Vector Sigma had placed Brave Maximus on Earth in ancient times for him to watch over the Angolmois.

With the events of Car Robots, RobotMasters, and Kiss Players/15 Go! Go! getting Brave Maximus off Earth, away from his post, that left the Angolmois no longer guarded by him and left it free for the characters of BWII and Neo to do with as they pleased before it all got taken by the Blentrons and reformed into a resurrected Unicron. With the Angolmois no longer on Gaia by that point, Car Robots taking place after BWII and Neo would thus put Brave Maximus on Earth after the stuff he was protecting in the CR cartoon wasn't there anymore.

Kurona wrote:Car Robots is stated to take place in 2000. And in this very comic it's stated to take place specifically during a time between Season 2 and the Movie where the G1 Autobots and Decepticons were damaged from fighting. So...

This is going out to everyone who reads this post: If anyone here who hasn't read the story that showed how the G1 seasons 1-2 Autobots and Decepticons got so damaged, I got links to it if ya'll wanna read it. It's an awesome story.

Sabrblade wrote:

Kurona wrote:Car Robots is stated to take place in 2000. And in this very comic it's stated to take place specifically during a time between Season 2 and the Movie where the G1 Autobots and Decepticons were damaged from fighting. So...

This is going out to everyone who reads this post: If anyone here who hasn't read the story that showed how the G1 seasons 1-2 Autobots and Decepticons got so damaged, I got links to it if ya'll wanna read it. It's an awesome story.

I'd like the link. is it prose or a comic?

Man we are getting off the path, but anyway, I just have to add my 2 cents. This is probably not right either, but I always thought that "Gaia" was earth in BWII & Neo, just in the future, specifically the "3 centuries after the great war" ended future of Beast Wars. I thought it was odd that during the BW series, any ship that comes near Earth instantly gets time warped back to 2MYA Earth, and all communication occurs between *Current* Cybertron and 2MYA Earth. Current Earth is (for unexplained reasons) forbidden, so that's why in my mind BWII & Neo would fit the bill perfectly. I always saw CR as the very first departure from the main continuity (ala G Gundam in the Gundam Universe). The fact that in Japan it was retconned into the original series is something I choose not to recognize. Also I don't see how/why in Japan it was decided that Galaxy Force be shoehorned in to the faux "Unicron Trilogy" ala Hasbro. There is really nothing that connects it to the previous two series. They even omitted the scenes of older versions of Rad, Alexis, Kicker (Energon Hotshot LOL) etc... that Hasbro used in the final episode as a lame attempt to tie them together.

But basically, tying this back to UW, it comes down to what is easily recognizable. Nobody argues who Armada Thrust, Prime Breakdown, or Ghost Starscream are, because there are no other characters like them, there is no debate. Many fans like myself, who rely mostly on animated series for continuity will recognize Roller as the drone from the original animated series, whereas fans who are vested deeply in IDW will recognize him from that. I just think it was a poor choice all around, as it is the only character in this series that causes such a division among the fans because of his ambiguity.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Kurona wrote:Car Robots is stated to take place in 2000. And in this very comic it's stated to take place specifically during a time between Season 2 and the Movie where the G1 Autobots and Decepticons were damaged from fighting. So...

This is going out to everyone who reads this post: If anyone here who hasn't read the story that showed how the G1 seasons 1-2 Autobots and Decepticons got so damaged, I got links to it if ya'll wanna read it. It's an awesome story.

I'd like the link. is it prose or a comic?

Four Japanese comic issues, read right-to-left, translated into English by Andrew "Hydra" Hall. Officially titled "Transformers: The Battle of Star Gate", but titled by Hydra in the translation as "Transformers: The Stargate Battles" (as the translation was done before the official English title was made known). The translation uses the Japanese names an terminology, but not intrusively. The story is set in the latter 1990s.

Chapter 1 - "First Contact"
Chapter 2 - "Divided Views"
Chapter 3 - "Activation"
Chapter 4 - "The Battle of the Star Gate" (or "The Stargate Battles", as this translation titles it)

Personally, I feel this story is as every bit of awesome as the Combiner Wars cartoon wanted to be but utterly failed to be.

o.supreme wrote:But basically, tying this back to UW, it comes down to what is easily recognizable. Nobody argues who Armada Thrust, Prime Breakdown, or Ghost Starscream are, because there are no other characters like them, there is no debate. Many fans like myself, who rely mostly on animated series for continuity will recognize Roller as the drone from the original animated series, whereas fans who are vested deeply in IDW will recognize him from that. I just think it was a poor choice all around, as it is the only character in this series that causes such a division among the fans because of his ambiguity.

But G1 Roller and IDW Roller don't have anything in common beyond name and original allegiance? Hell, you can't even say they're both sentient! Which... actually kind of makes me question the whole idea behind the theory of this being Drone Roller. The clue's in the name; drone. He wasn't sentient. Didn't have feelings. Even if Optimus left him behind he couldn't feel anything about it more than a ham sandwich. What exactly is the evidence for this being Drone Roller again because the more I think about it the more I'm confused why people think it is at all
And I don't think it's a bad choice at all; it's pretty awesome that a more obscure character gets attention in a toyline. If that sort of thing didn't happen we wouldn't be getting the sheer awesomeness of TR Triggerhappy or the adorable Titan Master Shuffler.