MSRP of Legacy Titan Metroplex Revealed to be $190

Yah I feel like they just don't know what "we" want for some reason, which is a bit frustrating. Amalgamations of things like mixing Transformers Prime style and G1 style is not something I think any of us wanted. Want to do multiverse? Great. There's no reason why you need to change Prime Arcee's face so she all of a sudden has a G1 nose that she's never had before.

Homaging old school design flaws is also not something that I think any of us were clamoring for. I want to look at a modern day toy and say "wow, that's fantastic that today's designers with today's toy technology can overcome silly things like having Blitzwing's jet canopy blatantly showing in tank mode." I thought some of the half assed alt modes of triplechangers were charming when I was a kid but with today's technology I don't really find it charming on modern toys. I just don't understand what they're doing here. If I'm a "G1"-unner by some people's definition, own 8,000+ Transformers toys, own one of the largest Transformers fansites in the world, but for some reason don't want toys that include the flaws from yesteryear's toys, then who are they trying to appease? Am I really in the minority on this thought process?

At this point, I'm basically against anything G1 trying to be too slavish to the cartoon models because they're over engineered to the point where it's just a puzzle toy going from one animated robot mode to another animated alternate mode model that may or may not have the parts going in the right places and instead achieve the "look" by having faux pieces and instead having car parts where they should go in robot mode.

Masterpiece Sunstreaker might be the only one in recent years that I'm willing to give a pass to, but even then, I really like how Classics Universe Sunstreaker achieved it properly and G1 Sunstreaker is still a pretty solid figure after all of these years even if it's not 100% cartoon accurate. I think I'd rather have the actual windshield and roof of the car become his chest and lower abdomen instead of "faking" it.

From all that I am reading Ryan, your opinion us majority rather than a minority. I am right there with you. I have found people that are fine with Blitzwing's tank being G1 to a fault but I found no one hoping that this is how it would look like.

Reading all these comments is really making me cement a decision just to pass on Blitz. Looking at the video didn't help despite the reviewer being blown away. And maybe slavish animation model accuracy can explain the nosecone in the front, but what about the thrusters in the back?

In triple changes one alt mode usually suffers, but here's it's both for some reason? And the same is true for Astrotrain. I know the bot mode is the primary focus, but the other modes matter too.

I look at Legacy Blitzwing and just continue to feel that Legends Blitzwing was plenty show-accurate and wasn't nearly as compromised as this Blitzwing. And if anyone preferred toy-accuracy instead, the Titans Return version offered that.

@Gauntlet101010 Astrotrain's issues are nothing on this tho, and I don't think the locomotive mode suffers that much more than it did on the original. We've seen they can do better with Blitzwing, the idiotic TR Mindwipe-style handling of the jet wings was completely unnecessary to make him GEEWUN-but-with-full-length-feet. All they had to do was copy the TR transformation engineering and throw in ankle rockers. Boom. Done.

Instead we get this mess. In light of this, I think Blitzy should have gotten the Voyager slot and just been a TR reissue, while Armada Starscream got the leader slot (which would work better for size anyway).

Seibertron wrote:Yah I feel like they just don't know what "we" want for some reason, which is a bit frustrating. Amalgamations of things like mixing Transformers Prime style and G1 style is not something I think any of us wanted. Want to do multiverse? Great. There's no reason why you need to change Prime Arcee's face so she all of a sudden has a G1 nose that she's never had before.

Agreed. It's unneeded, as is converting characters to G1 style in general. Especially if they're UT characters who were thus already stylistically close to late-G1 stuff anyway, although at the same time that's less damaging than doing it to a Prime or Animated character.

I would suggest writing in to Hasbro via their website to express that sentiment to them. I know I'll be doing that.

Seibertron wrote:At this point, I'm basically against anything G1 trying to be too slavish to the cartoon models because they're over engineered to the point where it's just a puzzle toy going from one animated robot mode to another animated alternate mode model that may or may not have the parts going in the right places and instead achieve the "look" by having faux pieces and instead having car parts where they should go in robot mode.

Agreed... SS86 Hot Rod looks really nice in both modes, but the transformation witchcraft needed because of the faux-parts chest makes him less fun to transform than the Titans Return version - and makes certain parts have durability problems. I like neo-G1 toys to still feel like you're transforming the G1 character as best they can.

Seibertron wrote:Masterpiece Sunstreaker might be the only one in recent years that I'm willing to give a pass to, but even then, I really like how Classics Universe Sunstreaker achieved it properly and G1 Sunstreaker is still a pretty solid figure after all of these years even if it's not 100% cartoon accurate. I think I'd rather have the actual windshield and roof of the car become his chest and lower abdomen instead of "faking" it.

I disagree about Classics Sunstreaker achieving it "properly" since while he's got a real windshield chest instead of semi-real like the MP, the rest of him is backwards Sideswipe I have to say that at least MP Sunstreaker was restrained from getting nearly as stupid as MP Hound by the need to keep Lamborghini happy.

TBH the only thing making the G1 toy cartoon inaccurate is that like every season 1 design his stretches and squashes the proportions into "Human in a robot costume" versions of themselves, and the kibble deletion to simplify drawing.

Regarding the Titan-class price hike being as big as it is... I'm not remotely surprised. There's so much more mass to Titans, and when making a new one more/bigger molds need to be cut to accommodate all the parts - especially with as big as some of said parts are on non-combiner Titans.

Out of the entire line, I'm looking forward to: Skids, Pointblank, Twincast, and Crankcase. That's it. More money for SS86, catch-up, Armada, and Cybertron I guess.

william-james88 wrote:From all that I am reading Ryan, your opinion us majority rather than a minority. I am right there with you. I have found people that are fine with Blitzwing's tank being G1 to a fault but I found no one hoping that this is how it would look like.

I throw my vote in as well.

Having Legacy leader (LEADER) Blitzwing using faux-parts to achieve the crappy imperfect look of the G1 original is baffling and an insult.

With the leader budget, there's no excuses to not be able to make both a perfect tank and a perfect jet.
If 3P would design a "Blitzwing" in current Generations scale that would sell for less than 100$ it would be quite a flex on Hasbro/Takara.

With that said, I can now forgive Siege Astrotrain for having imperfect vehicle modes, but he's at least his own thing and the imperfect vehicles are still cohesive without using fake parts for uglyfication like Blitzwing.

I'm just saying that the last two triple changers were both leaders and both suffered from compromised vehicles. BOTH vehicles. If they release Octane and he's a mess too that's three for three on the Decepticon side.

Meanwhile Springer was a voyager and he's perfect.

Maybe they're just trying to be too clever with too much emphasis placed on the bot mode.

I don't want to get too into Astro; I still remember the convo about him earlier. I'll just repeat that he's a train with another tiny train sticking out the front end. It's not the same nonsense as Blitz with a cockpit to emulate part of the animation model nobody remembers until now, but it's still nonsense. In both cases I think they sacrificed too much of the vehicle modes to give us an outstanding robot mode.

In Astrotrain's case the additional train mode compromise (Although for me it just feels like an inversion of the G1 toy's outside frontmost wheels making him look like he's got a wider locomotive's front end grafted on) was more about the C.O.M.B.A.T.-mandated full-length feet with rockers - a function, in other words - than it was about the looks. And the compromise to his shuttle mode (where his whole upper chest has to fold over to close the distance and bring the fin into place, instead of just folding the fin out) feels like a knock-on effect of that (I do still wonder if they could have pulled off a 2-layer slide-extending chest instead, though).

With this Blitzwing, it's all about looks and being too clever by half to achieve not-really-noticeable gains in robot mode appearance. I'll say for the umpteenth time that going Titans Return Mindwipe with the wings - where the robot mode wings are fake and the real ones form the legs - was more damaging IMO. Dumb as the cockpit being so prominent in the tank mode is (especially with them having messed up the cartoon resemblance), I find it far less obnoxious than the cluttered stupid going on with the tank panels in jet mode (it's like if Astrotrain had wound up with his front train wheel panels hanging off the shuttle wings, only a worse).

Part of the reason Springer was perfect is because his alien altmodes that share components make things easy, although not forcing the animation model's rounded chest definitely helped.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I don't want to get too into Astro; I still remember the convo about him earlier. I'll just repeat that he's a train with another tiny train sticking out the front end. It's not the same nonsense as Blitz with a cockpit to emulate part of the animation model nobody remembers until now, but it's still nonsense. In both cases I think they sacrificed too much of the vehicle modes to give us an outstanding robot mode.

I don't know about you, but I display my Transformers in robot mode. Transformation is a bonus. And, no, that doesn't mean 'go collect R.E.D. figures', I kind of hate them even as desk statues. I want my figures to transform, but I don't prioritize alt-modes. I'm not saying that gives Hasbro a pass on shoddy alt-modes, but that I'm willing to accept compromises where compromises of some sort have to be made. With Triple Changers not named Springer, there's probably always going to be some kind of compromise.

As far as 'toon accurate', they've been going in this direction for years now, and we're back to the Masterpiece complaints. I've always been +/- on strict cartoon accuracy, but I have to admit, if a toy is indeed that I certaintly plunk down the cash on that over something that isn't (looking at MP-44 (I don't care what anyone says, he's awesome) BB Kup and Cliffjumper). Part of it I'm sure is getting hit in the feels from my favorite cartoon of all time - sentimentality.

Question: While Blitzwing is coming in Legacy, at some point wasn't he rumored at least for Studio Series 86 (not that it makes that much of a difference to me)?

Let's not get hung up on compromises to a toy 30 years old. The outer wheels on the G1 aren't great, but it's also a different product at a different price point for a different time.

@sol magnus - Focusing on bot mode makes sense, but there's a limit. The alt mode matters too; they're Transformers. Sacrificing just about everything for the bot mode doesn't make sense, even if that's how everyone displays their stuff.

Blitz is just a mess in both alt modes. Astro is a mess in both alt modes. In bot mode both look great to me. In either case I just can't say it's justified.

Staying on the topic of Blitz, I never got the Titans Returns version. Just not better enough. Looking at it now the tank mode loses badly there too. How can the G1 toy strike the best balance of all three modes?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Let's not get hung up on compromises to a toy 30 years old. The outer wheels on the G1 aren't great, but it's also a different product at a different price point for a different time.

Fine. But for me, the SIEGE version's narrowing feels like it's just an inversion of that widening, and so doesn't bug me as much.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Blitz is just a mess in both alt modes. Astro is a mess in both alt modes. In bot mode both look great to me. In either case I just can't say it's justified.

No, only Blitzwing is a mess in his altmodes. Astrotrain has minor hiccups in both altmodes. And again, his compromises were for the sake of a function thing - full-length feet with ankle rockers - rather than Blitzwing's screwing things up purely for minuscule (and thus worthless) gains in looks by having fake robot-mode jet wings.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Staying on the topic of Blitz, I never got the Titans Returns version. Just not better enough. Looking at it now the tank mode loses badly there too. How can the G1 toy strike the best balance of all three modes?

Because straight-telescoping legs and because it's a brick without real feet, that's how. Also, I'd say the TR tank mode only looks slightly worse than G1 (note how the cockpit does not stick out past the treads, and also isn't floating there on its own with no surrounding hull - unlike what's seen on the Legacy mess and the animation model).
Although the tank mode could definitely have been improved by the wings folding up to cover the jet mode bits instead folding down as mismatched-looking armor (oh hey, add that to the list of things the Legacy joke should have done instead of pulling a TR Mindwipe for no good reason).

...The Deluxes are allegedly showing up at US retail, right? Hopefully someone here gets their hands on one and starts posting pics so we have something else to talk about.

Seibertron wrote:Homaging old school design flaws is also not something that I think any of us were clamoring for. I want to look at a modern day toy and say "wow, that's fantastic that today's designers with today's toy technology can overcome silly things like having Blitzwing's jet canopy blatantly showing in tank mode." I thought some of the half assed alt modes of triplechangers were charming when I was a kid but with today's technology I don't really find it charming on modern toys.

The tricky thing is that, I think at least, the janky alt modes can still be charming, Snapdragon is a good example of this imo. It’s just that not all of them are. The nose cone on Blitzwing is very much not one of those things, though, and if it had to be incorporated it needed to be a far more subtle hint rather than going out of its way to replicate the original design flaw. It doesn’t help that Blitzwing’s jets are jutting out the back of the other side, or that his jet mode in general is already so….”stylized” by its very nature, meaning you don’t get any alt mode that looks that incredible.

At this point, I'm basically against anything G1 trying to be too slavish to the cartoon models because they're over engineered to the point where it's just a puzzle toy going from one animated robot mode to another animated alternate mode model that may or may not have the parts going in the right places and instead achieve the "look" by having faux pieces and instead having car parts where they should go in robot mode.

This is a really interesting point, particularly the “puzzle toy” bit. I don’t personally care about faux parts, but I think you’re right about the slavishness being a problem and creating overly complex figures. I adore the cartoon models, and some of the figures I’ve absolutely loved, but there’s frequently little joy in transforming them. The designs are often so over engineered and complicated in the name of producing an accurate figure that they become fiddly, and often have steps where you’re just trying to line everything up so it all clicks together.

I’ve found I actually have loved a lot of the figures I’ve loved most are the simpler ones that might make some compromises here and there but still manage to incorporate some fun tricks and look great . Tigatron is a blast to play around with, for example. Really the Beast Wars figures in general(with an exception here or there) nail the sweet spot of FEELING show accurate without being either overly complicated or so obsessed with accuracy that we get of the oddities of 90s-era toy engineering or CGI modeling replicated(like the weird textures you often see replicated on Masterpiece versions).

Give me more of that, please. Especially if it means we get Fuzors and Transmetals, lol

Honestly, I was never going to get Legacy Blitzwing because as a character, he really doesn't fit in my wheelhouse of collecting, despite somehow having the original. (Honestly I don't remember how I got Blitzwing I know I had it, but nobody I recall ever bought it for me)

The toy to me dosen't look that bad. Opinions will always vary. It seems the majority are negative on this toy, and that's fine, so be it. I just hope those that feel as such remember the next time I express my dissenting opinions on a toy, or show, and then go to great lengths tell me I'm wrong, or to stop being so negative, or that I'm expecting too much.

I get that you like Siege Astrotrain. You have to get that I find both of his alt modes severely compromised.

In Blitz's case the front of the tank is comparable to G1, but the back is much worse. And the G1 cartoon model didn't have real feet either (just the thrusters pointed out a bit). Don't act like there aren't alternatives to telescoping legs. I just don't buy that this is the best design possible here. They got too clever. I think they could have achieved a better result by, ironically, sticking to the G1 design.

I guess I am one of the minority that really doesn't mind how Legacy Blitzwing looks and I genuinely prefer how he looks over the Titans Return version...
and I guess I'm the minority over not caring about the "Mindwipe legs" at all? I WILL agree that I do like the TR version's backpack but for me it's really neither-nor. Maybe I'll have to actually handle the figure in person to get a more solid opinion - I have the TR version and I wanna make a comparison, but to me I really do love how the 'bot mode of the Legacy version looks over the TR version (the arms look less of a mess and he has a proper Blitzy tum rather than a recoloured Megs one), and I enjoy the big shoulder armour stacks. The vehicle modes look fine to me but I can understand people preferring the TR version's modes, albeit I guess we're trading wings draped over the sides with front thrusters to a cockpit hull with butt thrusters for the tank mode - and trading tread flaps underneath instead of a whole turret for the jet.

But hey, ankle tilts and wrist swivels!

I'm still a bit shocked about Blitzwing.

I think there's a chance that jet mode is mistransformed somehow.

He always had thick wings, even in the cartoon, and I think that's what this toy tries to replicate but PvP managed to muck them up. Those fake wings from the robot mode I think become the bottom part of the wing in jet mode.

I'm harboring a tiny bit of hope yet for it.

Beyond that, that robot mode is well Blitzwing as he appears in the cartoon, and the Tank mode is fine. Yes the nosecone protrudes a bit, but it is what its supposed to be.

At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.

Sabrblade wrote:At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.

Interesting. . I always thought it was meant to be Blitzwing, and then somehow his defection to the Autobots was grafted onto Octane in error. I mean Galvatron gave similar denouncement tob both of them, in that they would no longer be welcomed among the Deception ranks.

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.

Interesting. . I always thought it was meant to be Blitzwing, and then somehow his defection to the Autobots was grafted onto Octane in error. I mean Galvatron gave similar denouncement tob both of them, in that they would no longer be welcomed among the Deception ranks.

It's a recent discovery. Flint Dille's full outline and scripts for all of FFOD have been brought to light. Shockwave was gonna be the one who was suspicious of the Quints because of his being much older than all the other Decepticons and remembering the Quints more, and was gonna full-on defect to the Autobots by the end. But Hasbro was like "No. His toy isn't in stores anymore. Use someone whose has a toy in stores."

The Octane thing was likely supposed to be a follow-up to this with Blitzwing, but Octane had the newer toy on shelves and we know Hasbro likes it when new toys get the spotlight.

Sabrblade wrote:The Octane thing was likely supposed to be a follow-up to this with Blitzwing, but Octane had the newer toy on shelves and we know Hasbro likes it when new toys get the spotlight.

Octane was a direct result of stealing Trypticon in "Thief in the Night" except they aired them out of order. Now, that I guess could be a kludge but they wrote a whole episode and mentioned it in "Starscream's Ghost." Also, he didn't really 'join the Autobots.'

sol magnus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The Octane thing was likely supposed to be a follow-up to this with Blitzwing, but Octane had the newer toy on shelves and we know Hasbro likes it when new toys get the spotlight.

Octane was a direct result of stealing Trypticon in "Thief in the Night" except they aired them out of order. Now, that I guess could be a kludge but they wrote a whole episode and mentioned it in "Starscream's Ghost." Also, he didn't really 'join the Autobots.'

"Thief in the Night" was also produced after "Starscream's Ghost". See here for more on the Blitzwing/Octane switch.

Sabrblade wrote:At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.

I had never heard that before. Where can I find out more info?

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.

I had never heard that before. Where can I find out more info?

It's a very recent discovery. Flint Dille's full outline and scripts for all of FFOD have finally been brought to light.

o.supreme wrote:Honestly, I was never going to get Legacy Blitzwing because as a character, he really doesn't fit in my wheelhouse of collecting, despite somehow having the original. (Honestly I don't remember how I got Blitzwing I know I had it, but nobody I recall ever bought it for me)

The toy to me dosen't look that bad. Opinions will always vary. It seems the majority are negative on this toy, and that's fine, so be it. I just hope those that feel as such remember the next time I express my dissenting opinions on a toy, or show, and then go to great lengths tell me I'm wrong, or to stop being so negative, or that I'm expecting too much.

Yeah, funny how skewed peoples' reactions can be based on what they like or dislike...
I don't think this figures looks bad at all. I'm excited to add him to my collection.

SpaceEagle wrote:I guess I am one of the minority that really doesn't mind how Legacy Blitzwing looks and I genuinely prefer how he looks over the Titans Return version...
and I guess I'm the minority over not caring about the "Mindwipe legs" at all? I WILL agree that I do like the TR version's backpack but for me it's really neither-nor. Maybe I'll have to actually handle the figure in person to get a more solid opinion - I have the TR version and I wanna make a comparison, but to me I really do love how the 'bot mode of the Legacy version looks over the TR version (the arms look less of a mess and he has a proper Blitzy tum rather than a recoloured Megs one), and I enjoy the big shoulder armour stacks. The vehicle modes look fine to me but I can understand people preferring the TR version's modes, albeit I guess we're trading wings draped over the sides with front thrusters to a cockpit hull with butt thrusters for the tank mode - and trading tread flaps underneath instead of a whole turret for the jet.
But hey, ankle tilts and wrist swivels!

I'm with you... And we may be in the minority on this forum, but in the grand scheme, that doesn't mean that much.

I still don't really understand why there's so much hate with recent figures leaning towards screen-accuracy.
Figures usually have issues no matter how they look.
The vast majority of figures from the start haven't been cartoon accurate... At best they take elements from the character models, but in mainline figures, there is always something off.
Whether it's because of compromises due to engineering, or just a designer's own preferences coming to the forefront.
Hell, even when Hastak's goal is to make a figure as screen/movie accurate as possible, there are going to be issues...
Look at the SS86 line... I love it. This line has produced some of my favorite figures ever.
And yet,
Kup's face sculpt is off. Blurr's face sculpt is off.
Gnaw's head in the Skarticon's mouth. The Sharkticon's mouth being completely open at the bottom. In alt mode the feet and leg colors make up the sides of the torso...
Scourge/Sweep's wings don't look animation accurate... The Dinobot molds have a crap-ton of greebling...
Slag's tail was sacrificed to store his blaster...
Then you could go into how certain colors of joints are often times off... Hot Rod's yellow knee joints.
The gray hinge on ER Ironhide's lower torso...
This could keep going on and on and on...
I get it, there are reasons for how these things are what they are.
And this isn't me saying I want, need, or expect every figure to embody screen-accurate perfection. Even relative to three-dimensional converting toys.
But I do appreciate it. A lot. Partly because like I said, it's never really happened... Ever (with mainline toys).
My mindset is, yeah, I want Hastak to push for 100% screen accuracy knowing that the result, the actual final product, is going to get 70%-80% right and/or done well.
And that's fine. In fact, all things considered, that's probably great.

But I think people that are so against screen-accuracy and how those visual elements may affect a figure's parts count, transformation, etc., need to remember that with mainline releases, screen accuracy has never been the top priority until within a couple years of right now.
Everything from the Classics line, to Universe, to Alternators, to Animated, to FoC, to even Siege...
Almost none of these produced figures that were extremely closely aligned with G1 character models.
So those who hate screen accuracy and feel it ruins figures... Well, in that regard, spanning over decades, they've had multiple lines worth of figures that always steered clear of cartoon accuracy.
And if all of that somehow hasn't been enough... Well don't worry.
I'm sure once we get the rest of the Insecticons and Dinobots, this phase will end, and there will be some stupid play gimmick or just a design overhaul that steers the mainline away from screen accuracy once more.
Again, I'm not saying that the goal of every figure or line should be to clone character models...
But the bitching and complaining about figures that are finally mirroring character models is really pretty myopic.

Digging deeper into the links Greebtron provided on the matter, here's the direct links to all of the FFOD material from the Sunbow Marvel Archive:

Five Faces of Darkness

Flint Dille's outline of Parts 3-5

Memo re: changes/requests from Hasbro

Model sheets

Part 1 dialogue script
Part 1 full script

Part 2 dialogue script
Part 2 full script

Part 3 dialogue script
Part 3 full script

Part 4 dialogue script
Part 4 full script

Part 5 call sheet and dialogue script
Part 5 full script

That memo, though.

What a thoroughly stupid design decision. As a fan of the original cartoon, I STILL wouldn't want any cockpit kibble if I could help it (although a small purple bump in its place wouldn't be too bad as a small homage).

However, thanks to this super-early review from Tealeaf, I can now not bother to preorder this badly designed and overpriced turd.

I might get this mold if it was, say, repainted as a Quint merc-bot or something else, but I'll stick with my TR Blitzwing, just like I did with Astrotrain (due to the similar bloated accessories, high price and badly designed space shuttle mode on the Siege version).

Hasbro definitely misread the fandom room on this one...

I would think that with the prices they're charging, especially him being a Leader versus Voyager that more would go into creating a bot that can turn into alt modes just as the OG's did without kibble/fake parts to worry about. I mean it's 2022 for crying out loud surely the technology is there to simply improve on the 80's toys?

And in some ways they have with giving them better detailing but I have to agree with others on how they're approaching the design of these figures, even though I too only display them in bot mode it would be nice not to have as many fake parts deal with/risk losing. Overall I'm okay because they do spend 99% of their time displayed in bot mode and very rarely ever get transformed. And I feel that if improvements were made to eliminate those fake parts and rely totally on even more complicated engineering it would just raise the price even more and at that point people might as well just collect masterpiece. Because then they're no longer considered toys and especially not for younger kids.

Then again maybe kids no longer buy them IDK, it's a fine line to walk on what to charge and how complicated to make it, and perhaps is why they created RED and the Core line.

Just remember, they've told us that all these rising prices are "only transitory"! (if by that they mean, 'transitioning to even HIGHER prices')

Just want to clarify my thoughts for everyone here. I do like Legacy Blitzwing. Overall, he looks like a great reprentation of the character and he's better than previous versions. I just don't get some of the choices. It's so close to what I want in a Blitzwing figure that it can be a bummer when some perplexing choices take away from that.

In a nutshell, I'm definitely a "form follows function" guy when it comes to my Transformers.

primalxconvoy wrote:What a thoroughly stupid design decision. As a fan of the original cartoon, I STILL wouldn't want any cockpit kibble if I could help it (although a small purple bump in its place wouldn't be too bad as a small homage).

However, thanks to this super-early review from Tealeaf, I can now not bother to preorder this badly designed and overpriced turd.

I might get this mold if it was, say, repainted as a Quint merc-bot or something else, but I'll stick with my TR Blitzwing, just like I did with Astrotrain (due to the similar bloated accessories, high price and badly designed space shuttle mode on the Siege version).

Hasbro definitely misread the fandom room on this one...

Well said and I agree 100%. I too will be sticking with my TR Blitzwing over this one. TR figure is still solid in my opinion and looks great in all modes, compacting better without looking ridiculous. The tank mode on legacy is ruined by that purple part sticking out front, like what the heck is up with that? And calling him "leader class" simply by adding those outrageous whatever those are, energon hand gauntlet things that don't even store nice on the vehicle mode, yuck!
On the whole I feel like Legacy is a lazy line. I do plan to get the beast wars characters and maybe the Stunticons, but nothing else. Will have to see how Metroplex turns out.

Reminder that the BB Legacy Multipack is rumored to contain Goldbug, Ransack, Paralyzer, and Toy Colors Scorponok.

sol magnus wrote:Question: While Blitzwing is coming in Legacy, at some point wasn't he rumored at least for Studio Series 86 (not that it makes that much of a difference to me)?

Nope.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I still don't really understand why there's so much hate with recent figures leaning towards screen-accuracy.
Figures usually have issues no matter how they look.
The vast majority of figures from the start haven't been cartoon accurate... At best they take elements from the character models, but in mainline figures, there is always something off.
Whether it's because of compromises due to engineering, or just a designer's own preferences coming to the forefront.
Hell, even when Hastak's goal is to make a figure as screen/movie accurate as possible, there are going to be issues...
Look at the SS86 line... I love it. This line has produced some of my favorite figures ever.
And yet,
Kup's face sculpt is off. Blurr's face sculpt is off.
Gnaw's head in the Skarticon's mouth. The Sharkticon's mouth being completely open at the bottom. In alt mode the feet and leg colors make up the sides of the torso...
Scourge/Sweep's wings don't look animation accurate... The Dinobot molds have a crap-ton of greebling...
Slag's tail was sacrificed to store his blaster...
Then you could go into how certain colors of joints are often times off... Hot Rod's yellow knee joints.
The gray hinge on ER Ironhide's lower torso...
This could keep going on and on and on...
I get it, there are reasons for how these things are what they are.
And this isn't me saying I want, need, or expect every figure to embody screen-accurate perfection. Even relative to three-dimensional converting toys.
But I do appreciate it. A lot. Partly because like I said, it's never really happened... Ever (with mainline toys).
My mindset is, yeah, I want Hastak to push for 100% screen accuracy knowing that the result, the actual final product, is going to get 70%-80% right and/or done well.
And that's fine. In fact, all things considered, that's probably great.

But I think people that are so against screen-accuracy and how those visual elements may affect a figure's parts count, transformation, etc., need to remember that with mainline releases, screen accuracy has never been the top priority until within a couple years of right now.
Everything from the Classics line, to Universe, to Alternators, to Animated, to FoC, to even Siege...
Almost none of these produced figures that were extremely closely aligned with G1 character models.
So those who hate screen accuracy and feel it ruins figures... Well, in that regard, spanning over decades, they've had multiple lines worth of figures that always steered clear of cartoon accuracy.
And if all of that somehow hasn't been enough... Well don't worry.
I'm sure once we get the rest of the Insecticons and Dinobots, this phase will end, and there will be some stupid play gimmick or just a design overhaul that steers the mainline away from screen accuracy once more.
Again, I'm not saying that the goal of every figure or line should be to clone character models...
But the bitching and complaining about figures that are finally mirroring character models is really pretty myopic.

I don't think the people complaining are generally against screen-accurate toys. The biggest accuracy complaints in recent memory were about how Legacy toys like Bulkhead and Arcee aren't accurate to the Prime cartoon. With Blitzwing, people's complaints are that he was made accurate in ways that nobody really wanted/don't really matter and that just serve to make one of the modes worse (like the jet cockpit in tank mode). People like accuracy, but the cost of accuracy isn't always worth it.

As for toylines before the last couple years not producing accurate figures, that's really not accurate (pun intended). Classics and Universe did their own thing, true. But the goal of Alternators was to have alt modes that were extremely accurate to real-life cars, even being in model scale. The Animated line was always meant to be accurate to the Animated cartoon, and to this day it's still one of the most screen-accurate TF lines ever made. The FoC line was meant to accurate to the FoC game, which it was. I could go on and on about other toylines. Even Siege was still trying to be G1 screen-accurate, but with a few tweaks and some greebling to make them look "cybertronian" (which was probably just done to make them "imperfect" so people would buy the Earthrise versions). The point is all these lines were striving for accuracy, it just wasn't always accuracy to the G1 cartoon. If I were someone who hated accuracy, those lines would have been ruined for me too.

I'm happy to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. The over-reliance on fake parts to chase accuracy to a rush job of 80s animation is killing the creativity of the brand. It's becoming more the rule than the exception as of late. It's why I can't stand what they're doing to Menasor. They're willing to throw away an amazing playstyle and compatibility with the other combiners because "that's how it was in the cartoon". I know I'll get hate for this, but it's fine. The G1 cartoon is vital to establishing the lore and fan base of Transformers. That's why it's still around nearly 40 years later. That being said, it usually looked like ass. Go back and watch it through adult eyes and explain to me why we should be trying to emulate it rather than improve upon it.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Blitz is just a mess in both alt modes. Astro is a mess in both alt modes. In bot mode both look great to me. In either case I just can't say it's justified.

Staying on the topic of Blitz, I never got the Titans Returns version. Just not better enough. Looking at it now the tank mode loses badly there too. How can the G1 toy strike the best balance of all three modes?

Astrotrain was never gonna satisfy me in shuttle mode since I knew they'd replicate the rectangular nature of the shuttle body behind the front end. That too was an animation design copying a flaw in a toy from the 80s. But I guess that one was more obvious than the purple bit extending from Blitzwing. I wanted a rounder shuttle, but not sure if everyone else wanted a rounder one too. So that mode was compromised from the start for the cartoon model (which granted, it didn't really ace either, so we are all left unhappy). I didn't have much issue with the train mode though. It had a semblance to what I was hoping for.

As for your keen question, the thing is the g1 toy does not balance out all three modes. As with all G1 toys, it prioritized the alt mode. In this case, there are 2, so you get 2 out of 3 modes that look fine. And we in turn accept the robot mode as also looking fine since it isn't better or worse than all the other compromised bot modes of the time.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I still don't really understand why there's so much hate with recent figures leaning towards screen-accuracy.

Were you hoping this toy's tank mode was as faithful to the cartoon model as it turned out to be.

It all boils down to you can't please everyone (people that scream GEEWON fans are terrible or BAYFORMERS are crap, etc.. etc..), same thing in Star Wars as their fans (and costumers) are some of the worst.
I for one am just happy to be able to by Transformers all these years later that actually resemble something I hold fondly in my heart from when I was a teen.

Again YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

If I have offended anyone with this post good I look forward to keyboard warriors attacking me, calling names and such to prove my point.

Cyber Bishop wrote:It all boils down to you can't please everyone (people that scream GEEWON fans are terrible or BAYFORMERS are crap, etc.. etc..), same thing in Star Wars as their fans (and costumers) are some of the worst.
I for one am just happy to be able to by Transformers all these years later that actually resemble something I hold fondly in my heart from when I was a teen.

Again YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

If I have offended anyone with this post good I look forward to keyboard warriors attacking me, calling names and such to prove my point.

This is the thing I never quite understood, the vileness towards another's viewpoint/preference, how does what someone else prefers affect you in any way? I don't like Bay's designs at all so I don't buy them, but I see no point in reiterating it in every other post nor attacking a person because they do like the design.

I'm a G1 fan so that's what I buy and I also can recognize that some bots aren't as well designed/thought out as others, yet I see no reason to go on a hate tirade because nothing I say will change it or what Hasbro does.

Tuned Agent wrote:As for toylines before the last couple years not producing accurate figures, that's really not accurate (pun intended).

I had thought about addressing this in my previous post, but figured it was obvious.
Clearly there were various source materials that those other lines were going to align with.
But that's actually still part of my point.
None of those lines ever prioritized the G1 cartoon appearance nearly as much as what we've seen recently. So many, many people will agree with the statement of, "It's about time".
Whether one likes this old-school G1 animated look or not, we've had almost 40 years worth of figures, that haven't delivered this look, until again, within the last couple years.
So sure, people can absolutely be sick and tired of G1 stuff. But for anyone to try and claim something like, "Another line like SS86 AGAIN??!?", is impossible. And just for clarity, I'm still referring to mainline figures... Not MP's, and not 3P.

william-james88 wrote:Were you hoping this toy's tank mode was as faithful to the cartoon model as it turned out to be.

I really have no issue with Blitzwing's tank mode... No, the purple bits don't make it better for me...
But I do think it's kind of cool that they went with that. Whether someone likes it or not, that front part does make some sense.
And for the boosters in the back, I'll take that look over the dumpy feet on the back of ER Ironhide.

Sure, I would've hoped for a cleaner jet mode... But overall, I'm totally looking forward to this guy.
The TR version looks good as well (I don't have it).
But this Legacy Blitzwing has a bot mode that is very, very on point. The proportions, the head/face sculpt... Even if I had the TR version, I'd still want this new one as well.

This is the thing I never quite understood, the vileness towards another's viewpoint/preference, how does what someone else prefers affect you in any way? I don't like Bay's designs at all so I don't buy them, but I see no point in reiterating it in every other post nor attacking a person because they do like the design....

In ye olde days, it was easier to let bygones be, because there was no internet and no forums where everybody could post their opinions, and where everybody could also hide safely at home and insult other people for their opinions.

I remember well when local newspapers were pretty much the ONLY place where people could post their opinions (on the opinion PAGE) in a manner that lots of other people could see and know about it. Opinion pages were pretty snarky then as well, but only a few people were lucky enough to get their opinions printed, and even fewer were able to respond beyond sending angry letters to the editors - which the editors were free to wad up and throw in the trash.

So most 'flame wars' never really got a chance to start back then. But now opinions are instantaneous. And people who are ticked off can respond angrily at once, rather than having to wait a few days to cool off. So yeah, we can blame teh interwebz for most people's reactionary snark. As Ego said in that Pixar movie, "We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and fun to read."

I'll probably wind up getting Legacy Blitzwing, for all its flaws. It has some merit. Whereas other versions, like Thrilling 30, were the real lousy ones (IMO).

Cyber Bishop wrote:It all boils down to you can't please everyone (people that scream GEEWON fans are terrible or BAYFORMERS are crap, etc.. etc..), same thing in Star Wars as their fans (and costumers) are some of the worst.
I for one am just happy to be able to by Transformers all these years later that actually resemble something I hold fondly in my heart from when I was a teen.

Again YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

If I have offended anyone with this post good I look forward to keyboard warriors attacking me, calling names and such to prove my point.

Except in this case, they didn't please anyone.

I'm just glad the only leader I've picked up in a long while wasnt smaller than the titans return voyagers (SS Grindor). It's not looking good to me for Legacy Dragon Megatron at this point but at least like most other releases, there is a good version out there if not.

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.

Interesting. . I always thought it was meant to be Blitzwing, and then somehow his defection to the Autobots was grafted onto Octane in error. I mean Galvatron gave similar denouncement tob both of them, in that they would no longer be welcomed among the Deception ranks.

It's a recent discovery. Flint Dille's full outline and scripts for all of FFOD have been brought to light. Shockwave was gonna be the one who was suspicious of the Quints because of his being much older than all the other Decepticons and remembering the Quints more, and was gonna full-on defect to the Autobots by the end. But Hasbro was like "No. His toy isn't in stores anymore. Use someone whose has a toy in stores."

Wow that's pretty cool. Shockwave is my favorite Decepticon so it would have been cool to see him in that role. Would he have appeared as an Autobot in future episodes or would he have disappeared afterwards like Blitzwing did?

Autobot N wrote:Wow that's pretty cool. Shockwave is my favorite Decepticon so it would have been cool to see him in that role. Would he have appeared as an Autobot in future episodes or would he have disappeared afterwards like Blitzwing did?

By all appearances, the change seemed to have been made far enough ahead of the production on all the post-FFOD episodes, so we may never know if Shockwave would have appeared again without asking Dille directly (and that's if he remembers anything about it beyond what's already written in these papers).

My best guess is that Shockwave would have been the fugitive traitor in "Starscream's Ghost" like how Blitzwing was gonna be, but Hasbro made it be the newer toy Octane anyway, so that change might have still happened too. We can only speculate.

I actually laughed when I saw Blitzwing's pictures. I wasn't going to get him, but I find it so humorous that the robot mode uses fake plane wings and the tank mode uses a fake jet cockpit for animation model accuracy.

Has there ever been a figure that used fake jet wings for robot mode?

If it were up to me all TFs would look like their preferred media appearance and transform in only 5 steps tops, with full articulation.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Has there ever been a figure that used fake jet wings for robot mode?

Not a jet, but I think TR Mindwipe count.

I'm surprised at the backlash on this reveal of Legacy Blitzwing. It's not Hasbro or Takara's fault that everyone apparently had a "Mandela Effect" moment concerning the plane cockpit always being there in the front of the tank mode on the original toy and in the cartoon itself. (The thrusters were always there on the back of the tank too, at least on the G1 toy.) We all knew what to expect after the past 3+ years of G1 animation accuracy in our Generations figures.

I do understand the desire for a triple changer that truly has no compromises in any form, a Blitzwing that becomes both a perfectly convincing tank AND jet aircraft. However, consider this. What if the original triple changer toys (and Transformers characters) were never meant to be faithful to real-life vehicles. Maybe both Astrotrain and Blitzwing were designed as fantasy vehicles that can convert on the fly *rimshot* from one form to another. Each form superficially looks like a land or flight-based vehicle, but they're meant to have signs of the other mode visible, because they're utilitarian military vehicles. The function of quick switching supersedes the idea of "disguise" by mimicking a real-life vehicle that cannot convert into alternate forms. Yes, Astrotrain also did this with his alt mode kibble. The train form has space shuttle thrusters on the back. The shuttle form has very poorly hidden train wheels on the belly.

Also, I want to point out that while the War for Cybertron Trilogy and Studio Series '86 figures have definitely been the most screen accurate toys we've gotten of the G1 cartoon models (outside of the Masterpiece series), they're not strictly beholden to the details of the Sunbow character models. They sometimes opt for toy accurate details instead. Legacy Blitzwing has several paint operations that are lifted from the original toy and missing on the cartoon character model. Consider that, to Hasbro and Takara, the plane cockpit in tank mode is just as "iconic" to that mode's look as the faux wings on the robot mold's shoulders, because those details are in all of that character's G1 media and merchandise appearances.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Also, I want to point out that while the War for Cybertron Trilogy and Studio Series '86 figures have definitely been the most screen accurate toys we've gotten of the G1 cartoon models (outside of the Masterpiece series), they're not strictly beholden to the details of the Sunbow character models. They sometimes opt for toy accurate details instead. Legacy Blitzwing has several paint operations that are lifted from the original toy and missing on the cartoon character model. Consider that, to Hasbro and Takara, the plane cockpit in tank mode is just as "iconic" to that mode's look as the faux wings on the robot mold's shoulders, because those details are in all of that character's G1 media and merchandise appearances.

1. Thing is, any aim at resembling the G1 toy's version of the cockpit being there is undercut by the use of red glazing, as well as by the cockpit hanging there naked without any hull surrounding it - something peculiar to the animation model (as is the protrusion, to a degree). In execution, it's this confused messy thing that doesn't know whether it wants to be the toy or the cartoon version.
2. There is nothing "iconic" about fake wings behind the robot mode's shoulders. Wings, yes. Fake wings, no. And as we saw with Titans Return... Fake. Wings. Are. Not. Needed. For. The. Look.

I don't think anybody was expecting a perfect Blitzwing. If anyone was, they were delusional. But I think it was reasonable to expect a Blitzwing that didn't make himself even more messy than the original (especially the jet mode) for worthlessly-minuscule aesthetic (and only aesthetic) gain in robot mode. It's not like with Astrotrain, where it results from function; the mandate for full-length, rocker-equipped feet required shifting the train kibble forward so that the front end could be tucked in and make way for the dome to fold down to be said feet, and that left the backpack reduced to a plate that couldn't cover the head in shuttle mode and forced the chest to have to flip back (instead of just the tailfin sliding back) to cover the distance.

Every further compromise made to Blitzwing, on the other hand, stems aesthetics. Especially from pulling a TR Mindwipe with him under the delusion that fake wings were needed to achieve the look.

Wolfman Jake wrote:I'm surprised at the backlash on this reveal of Legacy Blitzwing. It's not Hasbro or Takara's fault that everyone apparently had a "Mandela Effect" moment concerning the plane cockpit always being there in the front of the tank mode on the original toy and in the cartoon itself. (The thrusters were always there on the back of the tank too, at least on the G1 toy.) We all knew what to expect after the past 3+ years of G1 animation accuracy in our Generations figures.

Should we have known that Takara would have copied the part of the animation model that was kind of ugly and not very convincing in relation to the alt mode?

If it's iconic to the Hasbro designers then their priorities may be misplaced.

And Legacy Blitz's thrusters are WAY more obvious than G1's. G1's tank mode has a back and the thrusters are under it. It's not perfect, but it's good enough.

They're also more blatant than the Titans Return version, where they were under the back as with G1. And the TR version even duplicated the G1 toy's lamps.