More Images: Universe Swindle And Vortex

Definitely gonna get this figure. Can't wait.

But why is Swindle a h...

...oh, sod it. Whatever.

looks okay, never was a fan of combiner bots

logical as ever Hasbro...
you have a new onslaught mold out, which rocks. leg connectors shouldn't be a problem, arm connectors might be trickier. but hey, if city commander showed us anything, it's that augmenting an existing mold is possible, even if said mold wasn't meant for it originally.

yet despite everything, they choose to repaint a 4 year old mold.

Horrible toy, Hasbro should make a decent combiner or none at all.

Diem wrote:But why is Swindle a h...

...oh, sod it. Whatever.

Agreed. Given the limited number of molds it would be better if Swindle were one of the tanks, given that he's a land unit. I'd rather see one of the helicopters in Blast Offs colors and name then Swindle. That being said since Swindle and Vortex are helicopters, it's safe to say Onslaught's well Onslaught, and at least one of the tanks is Brawl. So who's the second tank? If it's Blast Off I feel a facepalm and a headache coming on.

That just looks bad.

Merc With A Mouth wrote:

Diem wrote:But why is Swindle a h...

...oh, sod it. Whatever.

Agreed. Given the limited number of molds it would be better if Swindle were one of the tanks, given that he's a land unit. I'd rather see one of the helicopters in Blast Offs colors and name then Swindle. That being said since Swindle and Vortex are helicopters, it's safe to say Onslaught's well Onslaught, and at least one of the tanks is Brawl. So who's the second tank? If it's Blast Off I feel a facepalm and a headache coming on.

If I remember that instruction booklet from a while back then yeah, Mr. B. Off Esquire is indeed a tank.

Maybe they're trying to differentiate this Swindle from Animated. Whatever.

I wish that Universe Onslaught, Animated Swindle and Movie Brawl could all merge (along with...um...RID Vortex and Unicron Trilogy Blast Off?)

So, now, we have an Ultra Onslaught with all the blings, but can't combine.

And, another Deluxe Onslaught that can combine.

The chopper mode of Swindle and Vortex is not bad. But the robot mode... not!

energon combinors i dont like they cant hold anything with tose type of hands g1, g2 combinors i like. i feel were getting ripped of with the enrgon combinors energon combinors cant hold anything there hands & they dont come with weapons for when they combine.

dragons wrote:energon combinors i dont like they cant hold anything with tose type of hands g1, g2 combinors i like. i feel were getting ripped of with the enrgon combinors energon combinors cant hold anything there hands & they dont come with weapons for when they combine.

This is not 100% True.

I have Constructicon Maximus and Classics Devastator on top of my desk. Devastator has Minicons linked to his hands for weapons, and Maximus is crushing a clone trooper in one of his.

Besides, the Gestalt guns seldom made sense. Woohoo, Devastator has a super-big cannon... that Mixmaster has anyway... The exception that I'd concede to is Piranacon, otherwise, it's not like the gestalts' weapons were actually all that useful.

I like it. It might be a bit expensive to try and create new mould Combaticons, especially how the central component wasn't able to comebine, so they went for something that was good enough.

And I like the Energon combiner moulds, so any additions to my (limited) collection would be accepted with open arms.

dr_n00b wrote:logical as ever Hasbro...
you have a new onslaught mold out, which rocks. leg connectors shouldn't be a problem, arm connectors might be trickier. but hey, if city commander showed us anything, it's that augmenting an existing mold is possible, even if said mold wasn't meant for it originally.

yet despite everything, they choose to repaint a 4 year old mold.

It's called "the bottom line". They are into making money, not catering to the whims of fanboys everywhere. I'm sure some people there would LOVE to do that...the engineering challenges would make it worth it...but the stockholders and board of directors say otherwise. More than likely they weighed the option and decided that the short term losses in terms of manpower and hours would be far to significant...especially when you consider the current state of the economy. People are hanging on to their money, disposable income is down significantly, we're on the brink of a global recession (or in it already depending on which party's candidates you talk to), so they chose to go with a low-cost alternative. Makes sense to me...

Not buying either,
Not a fan of clear plastic, and the combiner is pretty ugly.

First-Aid wrote:

dr_n00b wrote:logical as ever Hasbro...
you have a new onslaught mold out, which rocks. leg connectors shouldn't be a problem, arm connectors might be trickier. but hey, if city commander showed us anything, it's that augmenting an existing mold is possible, even if said mold wasn't meant for it originally.

yet despite everything, they choose to repaint a 4 year old mold.

It's called "the bottom line". They are into making money, not catering to the whims of fanboys everywhere. I'm sure some people there would LOVE to do that...the engineering challenges would make it worth it...but the stockholders and board of directors say otherwise. More than likely they weighed the option and decided that the short term losses in terms of manpower and hours would be far to significant...especially when you consider the current state of the economy. People are hanging on to their money, disposable income is down significantly, we're on the brink of a global recession (or in it already depending on which party's candidates you talk to), so they chose to go with a low-cost alternative. Makes sense to me...

But they'll lose money just the same, if not enough buyers buy this rehash figure. It's not a sure shot "good" decision.

You're assuming people won't buy it because you won't. I'm gonna go with the expertise of an international toy company who've been selling this line for 25 years over that of some dude on the interwebz.

Sledge wrote:You're assuming people won't buy it because you won't. I'm gonna go with the expertise of an international toy company who've been selling this line for 25 years over that of some dude on the interwebz.

It's called "presenting the possible other side of the coin". It's not a foregone conclusion of some dude on the interwebz.

Notice the "if". I just didn't highlight it.

It's not a sure shot good decision. That's not cutting out all chances of a good decision. It's just not sure.

There was no mention of "people won't buy it". Or that everyone should follow my choice. It's presenting the possibility that not enough people buy it.

Sometimes you have to read the posts in its entirety. And not just shoot out random sarcasm random posts.

First-Aid wrote:

dr_n00b wrote:logical as ever Hasbro...
you have a new onslaught mold out, which rocks. leg connectors shouldn't be a problem, arm connectors might be trickier. but hey, if city commander showed us anything, it's that augmenting an existing mold is possible, even if said mold wasn't meant for it originally.

yet despite everything, they choose to repaint a 4 year old mold.

It's called "the bottom line". They are into making money, not catering to the whims of fanboys everywhere. I'm sure some people there would LOVE to do that...the engineering challenges would make it worth it...but the stockholders and board of directors say otherwise. More than likely they weighed the option and decided that the short term losses in terms of manpower and hours would be far to significant...especially when you consider the current state of the economy. People are hanging on to their money, disposable income is down significantly, we're on the brink of a global recession (or in it already depending on which party's candidates you talk to), so they chose to go with a low-cost alternative. Makes sense to me...

yet so many people paid around 100$ for the city commander set, which apparently was cost effective to produce. and it sold out, and then got a repaint I'm sure more people would buy.
Releasing random shelfwarming repaints (like the recent Scattorshot second repaint in a year, or the endless movie repaints) that cost exactly as new molds do (which thanks to the price increase is now even less worthy of your dollar) equals *no* respect for fans' intelligence, and considering how big and organized the fan base you so easily dismissed is, you can make sure a good product would advertise itself throughout the fan community and sell. I mean, who the hell were Fansproject? they could never have afforded to exist without the publicity given to them by the fans.
It is REALLY sad Hasbro doesn't listen to the fan community, and produce these 3rd party products themselves. if any good, they WILL sell, and would probably cost the end user much less than these limited amount customs.
I can go on and on about this, and go into much larger issues - such as how talk of a coming recession of which dimensions aren't yet known only creates a snowball mentality in the market, and I'm sure the eagerness of both candidates to get elected has driven them to scare tactics using the economy as leverage, but eh, what the heck.

Bottom line, I'd buy appendages to complete a Bruticus and a Superion with the recent classics' ultras. I'd even buy the ugly ass and lazy Silverbolt for it. And I'm 100% certain not a fan in the world would miss it, especially given normal Hasbro prices, and not overpriced 3rd party rates.

Yup. That's somewhere in the line of "possible other side of the coin" that i'm talking about.

Swindle just looks a touch too bland for my tastes.

I'm picking it up. I have the original Energon combiner, minus 1 tank limb. And would like a second complete.

Overall I find the combiner individual Robots to be really nice and poseable Onslaught/Barricade is a very nice deluxe on his own.

I would have preferred better hands and feet, as it stands they aren't that bad. The helicopter weapons make decent open palm hands.

Auto Bot: not every post I make is aimed solely at you. Consider that and get back to us. Or not.

dr_n00b: I can only assume you're trying to live up to the name. This fandom, despite occasional ranting about "repaints are teh sux," LOVES repaints. Look at the fuss when repaints of the Classics Seekers weren't released at mass retail.

And what is all this "they don't listen to the fans" rubbish? You are aware that they turn up at Botcon and are actively seeking questions and feedback from "the fans"? Or did this sail over your head whilst you were busy bitching about being forced to buy a repaint at gunpoint?

Bottom line: you're not every fan, and Hasbro have been doing this for 25 YEARS. Some of the people making decisions on the line are people who grew up with it and love it as much as we do. I think they generally know what they're doing, and they get it right more often than you would.

Sledge wrote:Auto Bot: not every post I make is aimed solely at you. Consider that and get back to us. Or not.

dr_n00b: I can only assume you're trying to live up to the name. This fandom, despite occasional ranting about "repaints are teh sux," LOVES repaints. Look at the fuss when repaints of the Classics Seekers weren't released at mass retail.

And what is all this "they don't listen to the fans" rubbish? You are aware that they turn up at Botcon and are actively seeking questions and feedback from "the fans"? Or did this sail over your head whilst you were busy bitching about being forced to buy a repaint at gunpoint?

Bottom line: you're not every fan, and Hasbro have been doing this for 25 YEARS. Some of the people making decisions on the line are people who grew up with it and love it as much as we do. I think they generally know what they're doing, and they get it right more often than you would.

At least some are.

Anyway, none of the posts i make here is aimed solely at you.

But sometimes, it's nice to make some people taste a dose of their own concoction.

Mmm... tasty.

Martini?

why yes, sledge, once a year taking notes at a convention, that's almost as good as year long follow up of fans' wishes online and test groups of fans and not only children of 5-10. Sitting at a convention and saying "unfortunately there are no current plans for a product, but it is good to hear your opinion on the matter!" counts, especially when they release a random repaint the following day.

Notice the word "random". no one is bitching about fiction planted repaints like the seekers. HELL, I'll do a special order for the Ironhide\Ratchet classics Takara repaint.
it's these damn rehashed products (swindle as a chopper, unrelated Energon clear weapons, no remolding of anything) that annoy me.
Especially when it lowers the chances of a proper Bruticus, in the face of a new and spectacular Onslaught mold.

God, you really like to bash new guys on the board regardless of logic and common sense... your ego must be THIS BIG, eh. Try being nicer instead of beating your fellows to the discussion to a bloody pulp with your ideas. they might actually listen to you instead of disregarding your comments.

This is to no one exactly, but it seems like I’m hearing that “fans are everything” motion of thought again.

I, as a fan, wanted this. No, I have been hoping for this since Devastator was released in Classics. Know why? Because these toys were a bitch to find when they came out and I could not afford to pay more than a hundred dollars for one gestalt on eBay.

And to anyone who thinks Hasbro does not listen to the fans: Explain why they revived Classics? Explain why they keep making all these little nods to G1?

The poor company really doesn’t get enough credit for some things…

So if they make the Energon repaints, they may lose money yes. However, not NEARLY as much as if they invested manhours to design entirely new figures to merge with already existing figures that aren't designed for merging. The City Commander set is cool...I splurged on it...but it also is aimed at a VERY VERY specific target audience. The target audience is further narrowed down to those who actually bought that ultra Magnus figure. If it is a new figure (or what the target 5-10y/o audience THINKS is a new figure) they will pester their parents to buy it...especially if the ENTIRE SET is only $30 as I expect it to be. It's a better value for the parent and a smaller potential loss and lower risk for Hasbro.

dr_n00b wrote:why yes, sledge, once a year taking notes at a convention, that's almost as good as year long follow up of fans' wishes online and test groups of fans and not only children of 5-10. Sitting at a convention and saying "unfortunately there are no current plans for a product, but it is good to hear your opinion on the matter!" counts, especially when they release a random repaint the following day.

Notice the word "random". no one is bitching about fiction planted repaints like the seekers. HELL, I'll do a special order for the Ironhide\Ratchet classics Takara repaint.
it's these damn rehashed products (swindle as a chopper, unrelated Energon clear weapons, no remolding of anything) that annoy me.
Especially when it lowers the chances of a proper Bruticus, in the face of a new and spectacular Onslaught mold.

God, you really like to bash new guys on the board regardless of logic and common sense... your ego must be THIS BIG, eh. Try being nicer instead of beating your fellows to the discussion to a bloody pulp with your ideas. they might actually listen to you instead of disregarding your comments.

Doctor Noob makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. Couldn't put it any better.

Nekoman wrote:
And to anyone who thinks Hasbro does not listen to the fans: Explain why they revived Classics? Explain why they keep making all these little nods to G1?

Not to pop anyone's cherries here. But i read somewhere that Classics, as well as the current Universe lines, are meant to be "fillers". In between major blockbuster lines. Sort of stepping stones to hop across to the next blockbuster chapter.

Not that i'm complaining. I love the Classics/Universe line. Well, almost all of it. (Now that we have this Energon repaint. Again.)

Auto Bot wrote:At least some are.

Anyway, none of the posts i make here is aimed solely at you.

But sometimes, it's nice to make some people taste a dose of their own concoction.

Mmm... tasty.

Martini?

I know English isn't your first language and I try and cut you some slack, but that made no sense whatsoever. I don't know if you want to try it again, or just be quiet. Don't much care, to be honest.

dr_n00b: I really have a problem with people who think that their ideas are somehow immune to criticism because they haven't been on a forum for long. There have been several posts explaining the logic behind this set, not to mention all the people saying they'll buy it. Your response is basically to throw your rattle out of the pram and bleat about how "Hasbro don't listen to the fans." Sorry, but it's not true, and why the hell should we? They're in the business of selling toys to children. Count yourself lucky they listen to us at all.

Unsolicited advice. Just try to read it again. And again. Or ask your English teacher about it.

Springer: "Believe it or not, this is the fun part."

If you can't be bothered to post in such a way that people can understand you, why are you posting? I'm guessing you have some sort of problem with me, but I really don't know what it is. So here's my stock response: if you want to point out what I've said wrong, do so in the thread. If you think I've posted something that is out of line according to forum rules, report it. Otherwise, stop bothereing me.

On topic: I shall be buying this. Not sure how much of the Energon gestalts were released in the UK. Just wish they'd repainted one of the Aerielbots for Blast Off.

Auto Bot & Sledge:
That's enough guys. Your points have been made, so let's chill out before this goes any further and get back on topic.

I'm going to have to agree with Nekoman and Sledge here,

Any rerelease of the Energon combiners is good. I'm still missing 2 figures from the original sets, And I will gladly buy a gift set that has all 5 parts included.

If you don't like the repaints, just don't buy them. (You will just leave more sets for me!)

Firebird wrote:I'm going to have to agree with Nekoman and Sledge here,

Any rerelease of the Energon combiners is good. I'm still missing 2 figures from the original sets, And I will gladly buy a gift set that has all 5 parts included.

If you don't like the repaints, just don't buy them. (You will just leave more sets for me!)

Well said...I'll buy you a drink.

First-Aid wrote:

Firebird wrote:I'm going to have to agree with Nekoman and Sledge here,

Any rerelease of the Energon combiners is good. I'm still missing 2 figures from the original sets, And I will gladly buy a gift set that has all 5 parts included.

If you don't like the repaints, just don't buy them. (You will just leave more sets for me!)

Well said...I'll buy you a drink.

Thanks, I was a bit thirsty

I really wish Hasbro had just done a run of G1 Bruticus in it's original colours and slapped a 25th Anniversary label on it.

This 25th line is a joke so far

BlackMagnus wrote:Auto Bot & Sledge:
That's enough guys. Your points have been made, so let's chill out before this goes any further and get back on topic.

Yup. I hear you. So i'm not gonna bother pointing it out anymore. So as to give peace a chance. Anyway, people can go back to read about it. It's laid out in plain sight. And get a good chuckle too.

So... I do recognize that there were 2 camps here. One side happy about the release, and another side not happy about it. It's been my point all along. As against some opinions here, that it's something like "overwhelmingly" good, or that "only" good response is allowed (Or else, me Grimlock will bash your newbees brains! ).

Probably, there's more who want that figure than those who don't want it as it is. Or the other way around. But nobody can say for sure how many positive against negative responses were actually there.

Which led me to conclude that it's not a sure-shot winner. (My point from the beginning.)

Like the UM Armour experience, people go gaga grabbing every last piece they can find. I, for one, am not too impressed. But i still find the design creative, and i surely recognize the "overwhelmingly" positive response to it.

Taking off from this, i'd like to think there can be a possibility that if Hasbro dish out a "real" Classics/Universe Bruticus, nevermind the added R&D cost, it will be sold out before you even blink! Despite the economic pinch.

Considering many fans are on the edge, waiting for exactly this kind of miracle to happen.

Hasbro should make a Classic (new molds) Swindle, Vortex, Blastoff and Brawl and figure out a way to combine them with Ultra Onslaught. That would be freaking cool.

DMSL wrote:Hasbro should make a Classic (new molds) Swindle, Vortex, Blastoff and Brawl and figure out a way to combine them with Ultra Onslaught. That would be freaking cool.

I think it would be really cool if the hasbro folks would have a "lecture" on the entire process of making our fave toys. I know it would be cool to do new molds that combine with the Ultras. i agree. I just don't think it would be cost effective. So, if they were to have a forum explaining the entire process- from start to finish- as well as throwing in some basic numbers for costs it may well help us to understand what their thought processes are when it comes to making these decisions.

Or...am I the only one that would like to see that?

I'd like to see it, but I really don't think it would make a difference. The information is pretty much all out there, and it gets posted time and time again. Some people just don't want to believe that Hasbro make sound economic decisions because it would stop them from believing that they're so important and Hasbro are trying to piss them off.

Sledge wrote:I'd like to see it, but I really don't think it would make a difference. The information is pretty much all out there, and it gets posted time and time again. Some people just don't want to believe that Hasbro make sound economic decisions because it would stop them from believing that they're so important and Hasbro are trying to piss them off.

Agreed. Still think the numbers would be interesting to know...or at least a ballpark number comparing the cost of designing an all new mold to doing a repaint.

First-Aid wrote:I think it would be really cool if the hasbro folks would have a "lecture" on the entire process of making our fave toys. I know it would be cool to do new molds that combine with the Ultras. i agree. I just don't think it would be cost effective. So, if they were to have a forum explaining the entire process- from start to finish- as well as throwing in some basic numbers for costs it may well help us to understand what their thought processes are when it comes to making these decisions.

Or...am I the only one that would like to see that?

I would totally be down for an actual, in depth article on it.

I was always a big fan of the combiners, but I gotta' say, these newer ones look terrible.

Granted, the G1 ones were plagued by teensy heads, block bodies and limited movement, but these newer guys do NOT compliment the advances in molding that have come with all the other Transformers of recent years.

Just on the fact alone that their hands are just cannon barrels... or their twiggy bodies. I see character art for the combiners and am like, "WOOOOOOOAH!", but then you see the actual toy and it's nearly indistinguishable.

Hastak, it's high time to scuplt some much better designs. You CAN do it, because we've seen it done with so many other old figures.

I still think they should have used the Energon Bonecrusher mold for Swindle (painted up in Combat Engineer colors) and the Energon Air-Raid mold for Blastoff. Although the jet fighter mold makes for a crappy limb - be it leg or arm - compared to the tank gepard mold, so then you'd be trading one shortcoming for another.

Mostly though I find that transparent red to be a turn off. The constituent molds are worth the money, especially the tanks, but that transparent red is just too much. Reminds me of the Energon Omnicons and their fantastic jello weapons.

But I'm happy with the non-combining Combaticon collection I have in mind. I've got Classics ultra-class Onslaught and Movie leader-class Brawl, and animated Swindle will be coming soon; all of them great representations of their characters. I just need to bide my time for decent figures or repaints of Vortex (though movie Blackout or Incinerator would make fine proxies) and Blastoff.

Shame they didn't mold those energon parts in solid black. Worked well for the Scout class figures used in the Movie line.

Swindle shouldn't be a chopper, swindle shouldn't be a chopper, Swindle shouldn't be a chopper..

Has anyone stopped to think what Swindle wants?

Seriously, I think he's be a major proponent of being able to run away faster

And I gotta voice my intent to buy this set...I'm loving how Hasbro is taking the time to repaint these molds in G1 colors. I just hope they do so well with Superion.

They should just put the energon combiners on the shelf and wait until they have money to do a proper combaticon and protectobot set that we at least we could have two new combiners unstead of a crappy half ass figure. Because I know I would be willing to wait until after the 2nd movie toys run there course to get a couple of brand new combiner teams that show off what can be done with today tech.

shortround wrote:They should just put the energon combiners on the shelf and wait until they have money to do a proper combaticon and protectobot set that we at least we could have two new combiners unstead of a crappy half ass figure. Because I know I would be willing to wait until after the 2nd movie toys run there course to get a couple of brand new combiner teams that show off what can be done with today tech.

I'm sorry, what?

He doesn't want to buy it, therefore Hasbro shouldn't release it. I refer you to my earlier comments about people assuming that they represent every Transformers fan, and that Hasbro make these decisions specifically to annoy them.

Sledge wrote:He doesn't want to buy it, therefore Hasbro shouldn't release it. I refer you to my earlier comments about people assuming that they represent every Transformers fan, and that Hasbro make these decisions specifically to annoy them.

Aren't adult fans like, less than 10% of the Transformers purchasing demographic? I'm glad they throw us as many bones as they do. I loves my Universe Onslaught and though I'm disappointed that they didn't at least stick combiner sockets on it "just in case" it's still a great figure. It's harder to complain about this Bruticus when I think about that.

Swindle should still be a tank instead of a chopper though

If you're going to come in here using logic, it'll throw the "fans" completely off balance.

So keep it up.

I still find it amazing that there's now an entire line basically dedicated to celebrating the history of The Transformers, with a pretty heavy emphasis so far on G1. Amazing and FANTASTIC. Complaining about a figure getting used again seems... I dunno. Petty? These people don't seem to complain when Hasbro or Takara do another line of G1 reissues, and yet when it's anything else it's suddenly an insult to us all. I'm trying to come up with some explanation for this other than "they don't understand that not everyone likes or owns the same stuff as them, and that those people might actually WANT an Energon combiner rerelease." Selfish, innit?