Michael Bay Talks Transformers 4

Couldn't help thinking about this whole interview boiling down to, "Michael, think of the kids!"

So wait, Michael Bay is worried that some OTHER director is going to f*ck up the Transformers movie franchise? What alternate universe did I just land in? Is this Shattered Glass? Is Michael Bay a *good* director in this universe and does Christopher Nolan suck?

Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

xyl360 wrote:So wait, Michael Bay is worried that some OTHER director is going to f*ck up the Transformers movie franchise? What alternate universe did I just land in? Is this Shattered Glass?

Oh man, I think you just made me shoot egg mcmuffin outta my nose, bravo sir!

I liked the movies as much as any rabid fan could, DOTM was prob the best of the three... Bay himself is a flaming ass though and i hate his face

Burn wrote:Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

I am doing my level best to ignore your comment about the recent Batman trilogy. I mean... people can't dislike it. It's gotta be against the law or something.

Anyway.

I suspect Hasbro also wanted to keep Bay on, given the financial success of the previous movies. I'm sure a good portion of this interview is memorized sound bites rather than 'Hasbro drove up to my house with a truck full of money'.

Henry921 wrote:I am doing my level best to ignore your comment about the recent Batman trilogy. I mean... people can't dislike it. It's gotta be against the law or something.

Better lock me up then.

Burn wrote:

Henry921 wrote:I am doing my level best to ignore your comment about the recent Batman trilogy. I mean... people can't dislike it. It's gotta be against the law or something.

Better lock me up then.

SPPArrkkkkk GIVE GIVE sPARK OPTIBOTIMUS PRYNEE yeESss EAT cybiCoN
NOTIME NO TIME NO TIME OPEN DAMNIT

Burn wrote:
Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

Really, WOW, really. I guess there's no accounting for taste. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Even I'm not that die hard of a fan boy. Dark Knight Trilogy over Bay's schlockfest TINO's(Transformers in name only) any day of the week.

As far as Bay's interview, REALLY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? He came back cuz he didn't want anyone to eff up what he created. How else do eff up the train wreck that is Bay's "Transformers" movies? Take a heaping pile of burning dog crap and film it exploding for 2 hours? Nope, he's already done that, so anything anyone else does would be an improvement.

Michael Bay wrote:Well it’s more about how you approach these films, like for example, on “Tranformers,” you already have the built in audience.

See, I was not a fan of Transformers [at first]. Hasbro was talking about giving me a whole Transformers story, and I’m like, “If I can do this really real. If I can make them believable, I think I could have something here.” I’m not a Hollywood guy. My friends are normal guys. I’ve got this guy from Texas. He’s like, “Mike, that “Transformers” [movie] seems like a dumb idea.” And I’m like, “Yeah, I know, but just give it a second.” And then I showed him the shot of the Scorponoks jumping out of the sand with Tyrese [Gibson] running. He saw that image and he went, “I see what you’re doing.” You’ll always have haters, but the last movie? One-hundred-twenty million people saw that movie. There’s still a lot of fans of that franchise. And I’m a huge Transformers fan now, and I protect that brand.

See, this is what I've thought all along. I knew Hollywood thought it was stupid. And honestly, it is. It's two factions of alien robots fighting for resources, all in an effort to sell toys. It *IS* silly. It *IS* ridiculous. Just like Star Wars, just like Star Trek, it's all silliness. And it's fun. Fun silliness is one of the biggest things I enjoy about these franchises. Once they become serious, the thrill is gone. You can have realism (which is what he was going for), and still be silly. (Which is what he did.)

Now, I'll be fair to the Bayhaters for a moment. His line about being a huge fan now...yeah, he's a fan of what HE has helped create. He couldn't discern Omega Supreme from Alpha Trion to a car distributor. I'll give you that. That line doesn't exactly sit well with me, but it does give me hope.

Michael Bay wrote:When you’re doing films like that, there are a lot of cooks in the place to cook food. Whether it’s the fans, the studios, the toy companies. How do you try to strike a balance at that point? Trying to please everyone and then also trying to make a film that you want to make.

[The film] was also to make non-Transformer fans into Transformer fans. I think it was good coming from that perspective that it wasn’t a “fanboy” movie.

I have to agree that a fanboy movie wouldn't have worked as well. Prime (the show) is proof of that. On the one hand, it's excellent. My favorite piece of fiction for TFs, so far. On the other, when they do filler episodes and pad it, it gets boring. The fans wanted more episodes with side characters, we got 'em. Episode after episode of Arcee and Bulkhead. Then people started asking "Where's Prime? When's Ratchet coming back?" So, if you do give them what they want, they find something else to complain about.

My favorite? "Optimus should be the serious badass we all know he's capable of being!" *show writers give them what they want* "FFS. He's all monotone and boring. If he showed a single emotion, I might faint. Damn, dudes, this show sucks!"

Bay said "Screw that!" to all of it and went in a different direction. And you know what? I enjoyed the heck out of it. So did many others, to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars.

Michael Bay wrote:Yeah, because then you’re limited in what you can do and what you can show.

Yeah. You know there are a couple of historians of Transformers. I would do my designs of the robots and they’re like, “What if you just add a little bit more ears to Optimus?” But they’re really hands off. We’ve redesigned them in “Transformers 4,” and there’s some really cool sh*t in it. I’m literally redesigning every character, top to bottom. There’s a reason why they’re redesigned, but it’s also to keep it new and fresh to me. I think the fans will appreciate some of this new stuff we have in the movie and some of the new characters.

The redesigns worry me. I'll admit that. As far as characters go, Prime Prime is the best, I think. I don't get what people are complaining about. Because he's so steely, it makes him interesting. When everyone else is losing their cool, he's solid as a rock.

The movie version of Prime, I do like the character, second best. However, I think his design and his Leader Class toy (both ROTF and the DOTM remold) are hands down the best. That's right, I truly do believe the absolute best Transformer toy that Hasbro and TakaraTomy have produced, ever, is the ROTF/DOTM LC mold. It's darn near perfect in my eyes. If there was one figure I had to keep forever, it's him.

So, changing that design, making him into something new...I dunno. It worries me. I just hope it ends up being better, not worse. Because if they can make me take the new Optimus over my absolute favorite, they've moved mountains.

Michael Bay wrote:I know when you did “Transformers 3,” you were kind of done...

Yeah, and this is literally a true story. I went to the [Transformers] ride in Universal, and there’s a two-and-a-half-hour line, and you just see all these kids -- it’s the most popular ride they’ve had since Jurassic Park -- and I’m like... It’s hard to let go of your franchise. You don’t want someone to f*ck it up. So I at least wanted to set it up on some good footing. Because you’re going to get a different kind of director [who is] not going to want to follow in my footsteps. Directors feel very territorial. So they’re going to go to a more inexperienced director. It’s just the way Hollywood works. And I’m thinking, “God, so I’ll redesign it, set it up... Someone’s gonna f*ck this up. This is way too big of a thing.” And I’m looking at all these kids and I’m like, “F*ck, I gotta do one more.” And then I brought Mark [Wahlberg] into it. So now we’ve got a movie star, we’ve got full redesigns. At least it’ll be on good footing.

And, I can understand this. Sometimes you need to take a step back, get some clarity, and let it really hit you. I can understand his feeling and his motivation. While no one will ever truly agree on the content in the films, everyone should be able to agree that Bay does work his tail off. The man's a machine, I swear. He's probably the hardest working director in Hollywood right now. The man will work around the clock, he'll get physical on the set, he's constantly being a go-between on all the different fronts. If nothing else, at least give the man his props for his work ethic.

So wait, Michael Bay is worried that some OTHER director is going to f*ck up the Transformers movie franchise?

This is most likely better joke, than any of those in the movies. Anyways...I actually hope that they would really redesing those bots. As an artist of sort, I would really like to emphasise this frase "less is sometimes more". I just find those current desings being somewhat incomprehensible and just ugly. This is most on of these personal reasons why I wouldn't like to see any more bayformers. Aesthetically I just don't like them much. Optimus is kind of so and so, as well as Jazz and Shockwave, but there rest are quite horrible. Not because they are not like G1. Besides, I have seen really cool modern versions of those g1 characters and designs made by fans and artist for IDW for example. Some of the art from the 80's is just bad, but you can always make those old characters look better with skilled artists. I have also seen some really cool fan made bayformers, and those looked much better than the actual movie versions. They have the same "feel" and certain look and for some they look "realistic" and yet kind of transformers-like. I like WFC and FOC designs as well and have nothing against tweaking and changing things, but I didn't really expect to see some really weird looking lego bionicle monsters made of scrap metal and metal pipelines.

Though if characters are mostly paper thin caricatures, then it really doesn't matter how fancy they look. It would be also welcome change to see more character development what comes to the bots as well, and less useless and stupid human characters. 3 to 4 humans would be just fine if you ask me.

Henry921 wrote:

Burn wrote:Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

I am doing my level best to ignore your comment about the recent Batman trilogy. I mean... people can't dislike it. It's gotta be against the law or something.

The Dark Knight trilogy was actually a very weak film series. The fight choreography was non-existent and full of shakey-cam to try and cover it up, the plot was so full of holes it was unimaginable, characters were derailed left and right and frankly it was incredibly pretentious. The whole series was, frankly, a clusterfrak:

-Bruce won't kill, but he'll blow up half a dozen ninjas and leave the man he wouldn't execute to die in a fire?
-Harvey Dent was perfectly willing to forgive the man who killed his fiance over a coin toss after some half-assed rant about chaos? Bullcrap.
-Batman was willing to let Ras' Al-ghul die of a fatal situation he put himself in, but not the Joker?
-The Batplane was right next to a nuclear explosion, but made it back to Gotham in one piece? Bullcrap.
-We're supposed to believe a rookie cop with no combat training or outside resources can actually take up the mantle of Batman?
-Again, Batman kills about six or seven people including Talia trying to stop the truck with the nuke. What happened to "no killing?" I guess the Joker didn't kill tons of people or maybe Batman was going senile?
-Bane's physical condition made him a walking plot hole. So he went for years bleeding from his wounds wracked by pain in that kind of decrepit environment? Bullcrap.

And this is just the stuff I can list off the top of my head. Like it or not the Transformers series is a more consistent storyline with a better plot. The only reason The Dark Knight trilogy is regarded as good is guilt over Heath Ledger's death.

StanKyle wrote: Don't know, don't care.

Gosh, why does Chris Nolan have to be dragged into this? I'm a fan of both the TF and Batman movies, and I have to say that neither is as flawed nor as perfect as diehard fans say they are.

Both franchises have their own pros and cons, but it really boils down to whether you prefer the serious tone of Nolan's Batman movies or the lighter tone of TF.

That said, I can easily understand why Nolan and Bay fans tend to fight over which is better. Both franchises are like polar opposites of each other, each being great at what the other is bad at. Bay's TF movies are beautifully choreographed, while the fight scenes in the Batman movies made my head spin. Batman creates a dark serious atmosphere with very subtle humor and deals with "deep ideas", while the TF movies were loud, simple and filled with silly humor.

TL;DR: the two franchises have enough flaws for both Bay and Nolan fans to throw at each other for days. But in the end, it's simply about whether you like dark and serious or light and fun.

Me? I like both.

Now if Fanboy were still here, he'd probably tell me to, "GET THEE GONE SCAPEGOAT MY FIGHT IS NOT WITH YOU!!!!!!!"

Burn wrote:Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

Okay, there are actually facts.

Character builds, plot, suspense etc. etc.

I always try to see the best in movies and enjoy that. It was really hard with ROTF with the toilet humor and Devastator.

But to say that the Transformers Trilogy and The Dark Knight Trilogy can be seen as equals?

No sir.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Henry921 wrote:

Burn wrote:Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

I am doing my level best to ignore your comment about the recent Batman trilogy. I mean... people can't dislike it. It's gotta be against the law or something.

The Dark Knight trilogy was actually a very weak film series. The fight choreography was non-existent and full of shakey-cam to try and cover it up, the plot was so full of holes it was unimaginable, characters were derailed left and right and frankly it was incredibly pretentious. The whole series was, frankly, a clusterfrak:

-Bruce won't kill, but he'll blow up half a dozen ninjas and leave the man he wouldn't execute to die in a fire?
-Harvey Dent was perfectly willing to forgive the man who killed his fiance over a coin toss after some half-assed rant about chaos? Bullcrap.
-Batman was willing to let Ras' Al-ghul die of a fatal situation he put himself in, but not the Joker?
-The Batplane was right next to a nuclear explosion, but made it back to Gotham in one piece? Bullcrap.
-We're supposed to believe a rookie cop with no combat training or outside resources can actually take up the mantle of Batman?
-Again, Batman kills about six or seven people including Talia trying to stop the truck with the nuke. What happened to "no killing?" I guess the Joker didn't kill tons of people or maybe Batman was going senile?
-Bane's physical condition made him a walking plot hole. So he went for years bleeding from his wounds wracked by pain in that kind of decrepit environment? Bullcrap.

And this is just the stuff I can list off the top of my head. Like it or not the Transformers series is a more consistent storyline with a better plot. The only reason The Dark Knight trilogy is regarded as good is guilt over Heath Ledger's death.

I don't think it's necessary to break down all the "bad" stuff in the Transformers movie. I enjoyed them, but there were "oh my god why" moments, quite a few.

noctorro wrote:But to say that the Transformers Trilogy and The Dark Knight Trilogy can be seen as equals?

No sir.

1 - I never said that.

2 - That's just your opinion. It's neither correct, nor incorrect.

xyl360 wrote:So wait, Michael Bay is worried that some OTHER director is going to f*ck up the Transformers movie franchise? What alternate universe did I just land in? Is this Shattered Glass? Is Michael Bay a *good* director in this universe and does Christopher Nolan suck?

My sentiments exactly. If Bay thought that it was a silly idea, he shouldn't of tackled the movie, it's obvious that money was the incentive, and as he has loads of films waiting to be made it's not like he needed the work. Also how can he say he's not a Hollywood guy. He's totaly out of touch, the twins prove dthat, and he's all about the money.
Also most people even people who weren't kids who played with transformers, have fond memories, girls who come round and see my collection, remember them in a posative light, and everyone has some posative feelings about the franchise. And as for younger fans, he obviously failed, as there is no massive kid following like when G1 was in its hay day.
The point about having freedom and not having to stick true to the franchise so he cnhave is own take, is not a good thing, as it means that all the key elements that make the franchise good, can and were lost in translation. It's not a film about transforming robots it's a film about transformer. If it was a film just about transforming robots, yeah eel free to put your spin on it, but when something has history, your spin is not part of it Bay so please have faith in the franchise and breathe life into it, not suck it out.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Henry921 wrote:

Burn wrote:Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

I am doing my level best to ignore your comment about the recent Batman trilogy. I mean... people can't dislike it. It's gotta be against the law or something.

The Dark Knight trilogy was actually a very weak film series. The fight choreography was non-existent and full of shakey-cam to try and cover it up, the plot was so full of holes it was unimaginable, characters were derailed left and right and frankly it was incredibly pretentious. The whole series was, frankly, a clusterfrak:

-Bruce won't kill, but he'll blow up half a dozen ninjas and leave the man he wouldn't execute to die in a fire?
-Harvey Dent was perfectly willing to forgive the man who killed his fiance over a coin toss after some half-assed rant about chaos? Bullcrap.
-Batman was willing to let Ras' Al-ghul die of a fatal situation he put himself in, but not the Joker?
-The Batplane was right next to a nuclear explosion, but made it back to Gotham in one piece? Bullcrap.
-We're supposed to believe a rookie cop with no combat training or outside resources can actually take up the mantle of Batman?
-Again, Batman kills about six or seven people including Talia trying to stop the truck with the nuke. What happened to "no killing?" I guess the Joker didn't kill tons of people or maybe Batman was going senile?
-Bane's physical condition made him a walking plot hole. So he went for years bleeding from his wounds wracked by pain in that kind of decrepit environment? Bullcrap.

And this is just the stuff I can list off the top of my head. Like it or not the Transformers series is a more consistent storyline with a better plot. The only reason The Dark Knight trilogy is regarded as good is guilt over Heath Ledger's death.

I agree the trilogy wasn't great, but how can you make your stement the way you did, as the first person was just stating there opinion, and the second although in disbalief that people could hate it, which does have some truth, most people who hate the transformers movies, wouldn't actualy hate the films if they weren't letting them down, most people like them as action movies, but it's the way that they had greater expectations for them and the way Bay made erors that some people feel are unforgivable. That where people are arguing over feelings and emotions towards a movie that are being missinterpreted. The 2nd qoute wasn't saying the batman trilogy was great, he was saying that they may not be the best films but they are still wachable, and have some ood moments. The same with Transformers, they are fun, but are not making the most of what the franchiose has to offer, and in alot of cases actualy misrepresenting the franchise.
I know you don't like people speaking on your behalf, and you don't like peoples opinions, to be deemed as fact, but you are stating your opinion as fact there, although I totaly agree, but you have to be able to see other peoples points of views, and respond to how you would like to be responded too.

Burn wrote:Whether Michael Bay or Christopher Nolan is a good director is just a case of personal opinion and cannot be debated on "facts" as they both have their own unique styles and have both worked on successful franchises.

Though personally I'd rather watch the first three Transformer movies from Michael Bay over the Batman Trilogy from Christopher Nolan. But that's just MY personal opinion.

From what I read from this interview, Bay set the stage, and he wants to make sure all the work he put in isn't negated by another director or a bunch of writers. He's not the first Director to want control over a creation like that, and he certainly won't be the last.

Most of us would rather watch the Transformers trilogy over the Batman trilogy, it ha stransformer sin it, weather we like what's been done with it or not is another thing, but it's our passion so we have to look no matter the outcome. And the fact that Nolan did in your opinion a worse job than Bay, doesn't mean that one did a better job at doing a trilogy. What if the jobs were handed out in reverse? The realtionship between the director and the subject matter have alot to do with the results. So as Bay was not a fan of transformers he can not be judged on his performance as a director soley on those films.
Here is where some peope will think I'm being a bit out of line. Saying that Bays performance is a matter of opinion and not a matter of fact, isn't true to a point. He doesn't have to be good for people to like his films. It's like saying Hitler was a bad person in my opinion but it's up for debate as it's a matter of opinion. Bay is not a good director, I'm sorry but it's a fact, if you can honestly say hand on heart that one day he will be reguarded as a director that others will look up to then yeah it's up for debate, but that's not going to happen. When someone the general public, is either loved or hated then yeah it's up for debate, but he's a director that some people hate, and the rest think is ok, and makes fun action films, so therefore he's an average director at best.
I don't think you should confuse the fact with you enjoying the movies, maybe even loving them with the fact people are against Bay. Just becuase you like the movies doesn't mean that you have to defenc Bay, if someone better had directed them you probaly would of enjoyed them even more. I enjoye dthe films as action films, but hated what he done to the franchise. I'll enjoy seeing life like robots batlig on the big screen any day of the week, it's a given. So the fact bay took something that people love, is obvious that he is going to make something that we will want to see no matter how bad a job he does.
There are key mistakes no one should make, and there are things that people do that can be overlooked, Bay makes those mistakes that can't be overlooked, and as a director he should know better.

Sorry, but that's hilarious. Where exactly did I say that Bay was a good director?

I just said I'd rather watch Bay's TF movies over Nolan's Batman trilogy.

Want me to elaborate? Nolan's Batman trilogy was boring. The only redeeming factor in all three movies was Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker. He was absolutely brilliant. Everything else? Boring.

Again, MY opinion. It's not open for debate whether I'm right or wrong. That is just how I feel.

Is Bay a good director? Well he's a better director than anyone in this fandom. And I personally feel that he was, and is, the right person for the job. Giant **** robots beating the crap out of each other ... that's gonna require some big explosions and lots of action scenes which the man is known for. It's his "thing".

But what amazes me about how every time I speak up in defense of the movies, there's at least ten other people out there quick to jump on me about it, not one of you people EVER bring up the writers.

You're all so quick to blame Bay. He's not the one who wrote the story. He was given a manuscript and said "here, work your magic on it".

You want to blame Bay for the movies being bad? Hey go for it, but don't forget to blame the writers as well.

Burn wrote:But what amazes me about how every time I speak up in defense of the movies, there's at least ten other people out there quick to jump on me about it, not one of you people EVER bring up the writers.

You're all so quick to blame Bay. He's not the one who wrote the story. He was given a manuscript and said "here, work your magic on it".

You want to blame Bay for the movies being bad? Hey go for it, but don't forget to blame the writers as well.

The thing about that is, Bay is in charge of the movie. He gets final say on whether he likes what the writers give him. He can change it around if he wants. He can tell the writers to put in more body humor and less development for the title characters. He can tell the art designers to make the bots look more like each other and less unique. He can tell the actors to yell all their lines, he can tell the women to act more like porn stars. He makes his movie. Nobody blames the writers because they're under Bay's direction.

Quick comment on the Nolan Batman vs Bayformers bit: I'll take The Dark Knight over anything Bayformers. Batman Begins and TDKR I could go either way on, but TDK hands-down beats anything Bay has made, even with its flaws.

Reading that Bay says he is a fan of the franchise, I immediately screamed BULLSHIT. As someone else said, he may be a fan of the Transformers he has created, but he is in no way, shape, or form a fan of the broader franchise, and despite the popularity his movies have brought (only to themselves, really), Bayformers 4 on the 30th anniversary marks a big black spot for me.

That Bot wrote:The thing about that is, Bay is in charge of the movie. He gets final say on whether he likes what the writers give him. He can change it around if he wants. He can tell the writers to put in more body humor and less development for the title characters. He can tell the art designers to make the bots look more like each other and less unique. He can tell the actors to yell all their lines, he can tell the women to act more like porn stars. He makes his movie. Nobody blames the writers because they're under Bay's direction.

See, I get that. I know that's what a Director does. But I don't get why Bay soley gets the blame, he doesn't write the ENTIRE script. He may do edits, but the bulk of it is done by other people.

And then people are quick to turn around and praise Nolan. If Nolan is such a great director, then why, after three movies, could he not get more out of Christian Bale?

Could it be that Christian Bale is a crappy actor when you compare him to Heath Ledger? If that's the case, then surely the blame and praise would then be leaped upon the actors and the praises thrown at Nolan are just not deserved?

Or it could be a simple case of "RARGH! BAY! SPEW FORTH HATE! ANYONE ARGUES OTHERWISE IS WRONG! RARGH!"
(Because honestly, that's how some people come across on these forums)

Reading that Bay says he is a fan of the franchise, I immediately screamed BULLSHIT. As someone else said, he may be a fan of the Transformers he has created, but he is in no way, shape, or form a fan of the broader franchise, and despite the popularity his movies have brought (only to themselves, really), Bayformers 4 on the 30th anniversary marks a big black spot for me.

But can you prove that?

Sure, when he started work on the first movie he was the first to admit to not being versed on Transformers, but can anyone on this site, prove without a shadow of a doubt, that in the last seven odd years or so, that the man hasn't watched and read up on things and has now become a fan?

Or is it again another case of "RARGH! BAY! SPEW FORTH HATE! ANYONE ARGUES OTHERWISE IS WRONG! RARGH!"
(Please try to see the lighter side of this and not get your knickers in a knot guys)

People just need to put things in perspective, this is just a movie.

njb902 wrote:People just need to put things in perspective, this is just a movie.

It is, and it's for entertainment purposes. And they entertain me. Other movies entertain me more sure, but these ones do their job well enough.

Burn wrote:

njb902 wrote:People just need to put things in perspective, this is just a movie.

It is, and it's for entertainment purposes. And they entertain me. Other movies entertain me more sure, but these ones do their job well enough.

There is a deep seated irony in this entire conversation:

Bay and Nolan are friends, fans of each other's respective film trilogies, and respect each other highly.

Your heads may explode now.

"Yeah, i mean f*ck man...I need to think about them f*ckin kids...It about the f*ckin kids man! The kids! So we got, we got Mark Walberg and hes all like 'We need to re-design this sh*t man! For the f*ckin kids! The KIDS!"

I dunno. Its not like he really can do any worse...can he? Could he drive away all of those new fans with an even worse story and interpretation? I'll make'm a deal, if he can drop the price down on retail transfomers coming out, i'll love his movie.

I think thats a fair deal.

vegetacron wrote:"Yeah, i mean f*ck man...I need to think about them f*ckin kids...It about the f*ckin kids man! The kids! So we got, we got Mark Walberg and hes all like 'We need to re-design this sh*t man! For the f*ckin kids! The KIDS!"

I dunno. Its not like he really can do any worse...can he? Could he drive away all of those new fans with an even worse story and interpretation? I'll make'm a deal, if he can drop the price down on retail transfomers coming out, i'll love his movie.

I think thats a fair deal.

Yes because a billion dollars per film is caused by people being driven away.

The fanboys need to realize that their dislike of the films doesn't mean they are universally hated. More people like the films than anything that came before. Not that you're going to let facts cloud your bias.

Capt.Failure wrote:Not that you're going to let facts cloud your bias.

That's exactly the problem. Their hatred is so ridiculous that they can't even think clearly. They couldn't see the other side of the argument at all, even if they were paid to. That bothers me. Knowing that people are so closeminded, so walled off, that it turns them into people like this over TOYS and a movie about TOYS, it's scary.

I say again, like I've said before... There's a difference between being a fan and being a fanatic. And yes, yes there is a difference.

Scares the livin' crap out of me that people got SO upset they wanted to KILL Michael Bay. I mean, do you people understand how insane that is? Y'ALL THREATENED TO KILL A MAN OVER A MOVIE BASED ON TOYS.

Burn wrote::lol:

Sorry, but that's hilarious. Where exactly did I say that Bay was a good director?

I just said I'd rather watch Bay's TF movies over Nolan's Batman trilogy.

Want me to elaborate? Nolan's Batman trilogy was boring. The only redeeming factor in all three movies was Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker. He was absolutely brilliant. Everything else? Boring.

Again, MY opinion. It's not open for debate whether I'm right or wrong. That is just how I feel.

Is Bay a good director? Well he's a better director than anyone in this fandom. And I personally feel that he was, and is, the right person for the job. Giant **** robots beating the crap out of each other ... that's gonna require some big explosions and lots of action scenes which the man is known for. It's his "thing".

But what amazes me about how every time I speak up in defense of the movies, there's at least ten other people out there quick to jump on me about it, not one of you people EVER bring up the writers.

You're all so quick to blame Bay. He's not the one who wrote the story. He was given a manuscript and said "here, work your magic on it".

You want to blame Bay for the movies being bad? Hey go for it, but don't forget to blame the writers as well.

If that's a response to me, let me clarify. I never was saying that you said specificaly Bay was a good director. yes I qouted you, but my whole response wasn't ment to be based on your qoute entirely.
I was using your qoute as an example, and I'm trying to keep my posts brief, but it's hard as someone is always going to find fault or missinterperate something so I am always trying to cover every angle, but then people won't read it all, and rah rah rah you get my point.

You just brought up a very good point, why don't people ever blame the writer? You are totaly right bay isn't the person who comes up with all the ideas, bay is definently not the person who designs the transformers, the sets etc.
The thing is Bay is the director, and he ha sthe final say and on top of that he will tell the writers the direction he wants to go and take the story. Everyone in the creative department is just doing what Bay wants to bring his vision to life.
He wasn't given a manuscript and said work with it, he is given a script and he will turn it down and say to writers to start over or make changes here and there. But your point about Bay not being the person who comes up with the details is right, maybe all the deisgners and writers never came up with anything better. But the thing is I have seen the concept art and some of the earlier designs were much better.

I've not got a problem with you liking Bays work, but to say that no one in the fandom is a better director than Bay is so wrong it's untrue. For a start, do you know who I am and what I do, let alone anyone else. There are loads of professionals in the fandom, have you not seeen the fan made creations, art, models, animations, stories. I'm a designer by trade so I know alot about what goes on behind the scenes in the creative industry. But there are fans out there who are not professionals and they produce things in there spare time that I am in awe of. There is alot of talent in the fandom, and I'm sure that there are some up and coming directors within, and there are those that will never be a director, but definently have the sense and know how to put Bay to shame.

Finaly just becuase Transformers are fighting robots so explosions are a given and bay is known for explosions. Remeber what you said about blaming the writers, well Bay can't take credit for the explosions, as thats the pyrotechnic team, yes Bay directs the sequence and where the explosions take place, but he ruins it all by super fast editing so you can't take in and appreciate all the detail and effort. The reason why people are so upset is not becuase Bay didn't deliver with all the explosions, it's becuase of everything else.
If transformers was just about explosions and fighting robots, then the franchise would not have lasted so long. Transformers has depth and so many layers to it. There are deep storylines that are constantly evolving, have you not seen all the comics out there.

DTR69, I'm not going to quote your post in my response because your a consummate politician regarding each and every one of your responses. You're a special kind of poster since you're a master of twisting words and altering meanings. The type who doesn't care if they're right, so long as they show the other person is wrong.

That you show you know nothing of film making is apparent. Bold claims of what you do in real life mean nothing on the internet, so such claims from you are worthless to me. Equally laughable are your claims of talented fans having more skill at directing than Bay. Lastly your attempt to redirect credit from Bay just shows that you know you're wrong, and that your only viable reaction is to spindoctor what everyone says into a positive for you.

Since making this post any more long winded would be an effort in wasted time and energy, I'll allow a favorite quote of Galvatron's to sum you up in my eyes:

"This is bad comedy."

As always, Bay sounds like an arrogant tool. I think he actually fears someone making a better TF movie, not one that's worse. I really don't see how they can get any worse. Yeah, 120 million people saw your movie but that's because people easily confuse big explosions for good film making that's why it has a score of 36% on RT.

AutoBorst wrote:As always, Bay sounds like an arrogant tool. I think he actually fears someone making a better TF movie, not one that's worse. I really don't see how they can get any worse. Yeah, 120 million people saw your movie but that's because people easily confuse big explosions for good film making that's why it has a score of 36% on RT.

Oh, whoa whoa. There ARE directors that are much worse than Bay.

Uwe Boll, that's a given.

However, there are plenty of movies that come and go in theaters that are just terrible and the directors behind them aren't helping matters.

Bay does know how to make money. All of his films, while critical messes, have generally been box office hits. I think one or two was a loss, but nothing major. The man is a multibillion director. It's not because he'll just direct anything, it's because he knows how to work with visuals, which is very important for a director.

There ARE directors who are much worse than he is.

Autobot032 wrote:

AutoBorst wrote:As always, Bay sounds like an arrogant tool. I think he actually fears someone making a better TF movie, not one that's worse. I really don't see how they can get any worse. Yeah, 120 million people saw your movie but that's because people easily confuse big explosions for good film making that's why it has a score of 36% on RT.

Oh, whoa whoa. There ARE directors that are much worse than Bay.

Uwe Boll, that's a given.

However, there are plenty of movies that come and go in theaters that are just terrible and the directors behind them aren't helping matters.

Bay does know how to make money. All of his films, while critical messes, have generally been box office hits. I think one or two was a loss, but nothing major. The man is a multibillion director. It's not because he'll just direct anything, it's because he knows how to work with visuals, which is very important for a director.

There ARE directors who are much worse than he is.

Now you've done it. Now they're going to start defending Uwe Boll since you compared him to their personal Hitler. If that happens you should just lock the thread since it will be beyond salvaging. Uwe Boll is indefensible as a filmmaker and as a human being.

Autobot032 wrote:Bay does know how to make money. All of his films, while critical messes, have generally been box office hits. I think one or two was a loss, but nothing major. The man is a multibillion director. It's not because he'll just direct anything, it's because he knows how to work with visuals, which is very important for a director.

There ARE directors who are much worse than he is.

I agree with this, actually. He knows how to rake in the cash, and that's why Hasbro likes him. He's good at the "making money" part of filmmaking, just not at the "movies as an art form" part. Not that anything Transformers has ever been exceptionally artistic and beautiful, but his style.....ehhhhhhhhh.

Art is subject to ones personal opinion.

Burn wrote:Art is subject to ones personal opinion.

Roger Ebert said you were wrong for enjoying Transformers. Who are you to question someone more educated than yourself? Since only stupid people like you enjoy the series we can see it's a clear sign of America's downfall as a nation that it's considered "ok" to watch this kind of trash only meant to pander to the lowest common denominator. Anyone who supports Michael Bay by seeing his movies loses their right to opinion.



Note: This entire paragraph was written in parody and does not reflect my personal views, mostly since I'm a huge fan of the films and enjoy Bay's movies in general. Sadly there are people who think like this.

Burn wrote:But what amazes me about how every time I speak up in defense of the movies, there's at least ten other people out there quick to jump on me about it, not one of you people EVER bring up the writers.

Ever watch the special features on any of the movies? I have, Bay was in the drivers seat of these "movies", not the writers. Do I disagree with you on the action elements he does, no. What I do disagree with is the rest of the schlock in these "movies"

And to whoever is STILL uses the that it's just toys, there's fiction behind it. Just like comics. Those can be good(Batman, X-Men, Iron Man), so can Transformers. Quit deluding yourself, if you wanna settle for schlock, settle for it. But know, you don't have to, you choose to.

What else are we suppose to choose then?

Come on burn, you know these guys aren't going to respect that you dare to differ with thier "facts".

D-340 wrote:

Burn wrote:But what amazes me about how every time I speak up in defense of the movies, there's at least ten other people out there quick to jump on me about it, not one of you people EVER bring up the writers.

Ever watch the special features on any of the movies? I have, Bay was in the drivers seat of these "movies", not the writers. Do I disagree with you on the action elements he does, no. What I do disagree with is the rest of the schlock in these "movies"

And to whoever is STILL uses the that it's just toys, there's fiction behind it. Just like comics. Those can be good(Batman, X-Men, Iron Man), so can Transformers. Quit deluding yourself, if you wanna settle for schlock, settle for it. But know, you don't have to, you choose to.

Yeah, frak Michael Bay for fooling me into enjoying a film. All that fake fun I had was just me being delusional.

Or maybe you need to learn that your opinion is not that of others, and need to learn to deal with it. The way you act like a spoiled child screaming at others to stop enjoying themselves is pathetic. Your misery is your own. It would do you good to remember that.

D-340 wrote:Quit deluding yourself, if you wanna settle for schlock, settle for it. But know, you don't have to, you choose to.

God tears open the skies! The clouds part and thunder strikes down at the soil below him. He speaks: MORTAL FOOLS! QUIT DELUDING YOURSELVES! I HAVE WITH ME, WRITTEN ON STONE SLABS WHAT THIS MORTAL WORLD MUST DEEM 'SCHLOCK' AND WHAT NOT!'

The people tremble in fear. Questions are faintly being uttered in the crowd. Have we been wrong all this time? Could we, in all of our foolishness, denied ourselves paradise by accepting schlock into our lives? Oh harsh reality! Have we been blind?
God thunders on: 'FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SETTLED FOR SCHLOCK- IT WAS YOUR CHOICE! YET, FEAR IS NOT THE ONLY PATH, THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU! BREAK FREE OF THE SCHLOCK! KNOW THAT IT IS A CHOICE. ONE THAT YOU CAN MAKE AGAIN!'

The skies close up again, the stone tablets fall to the earth and the crowds gather around them, now knowing what is truth and what is schlock. We had been saved!

RhA wrote:[That post right above me]

This made my morning. Thank you.

Turns out when those stone tablets hit the Earth they set off a massive fireball which engulfed the planet and wiped out the dinosaurs.

Except the Bayosaurus. It thrived on the explosions and the cries of dinosaur fanboys.

Burn wrote:Turns out when those stone tablets hit the Earth they set off a massive fireball which engulfed the planet and wiped out the dinosaurs.

Except the Bayosaurus. It thrived on the explosions and the cries of dinosaur fanboys.

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but apocalyptic falling rocks will kill me.

RhA wrote:

D-340 wrote:Quit deluding yourself, if you wanna settle for schlock, settle for it. But know, you don't have to, you choose to.

God tears open the skies! The clouds part and thunder strikes down at the soil below him. He speaks: MORTAL FOOLS! QUIT DELUDING YOURSELVES! I HAVE WITH ME, WRITTEN ON STONE SLABS WHAT THIS MORTAL WORLD MUST DEEM 'SCHLOCK' AND WHAT NOT!'

The people tremble in fear. Questions are faintly being uttered in the crowd. Have we been wrong all this time? Could we, in all of our foolishness, denied ourselves paradise by accepting schlock into our lives? Oh harsh reality! Have we been blind?
God thunders on: 'FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SETTLED FOR SCHLOCK- IT WAS YOUR CHOICE! YET, FEAR IS NOT THE ONLY PATH, THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU! BREAK FREE OF THE SCHLOCK! KNOW THAT IT IS A CHOICE. ONE THAT YOU CAN MAKE AGAIN!'

The skies close up again, the stone tablets fall to the earth and the crowds gather around them, now knowing what is truth and what is schlock. We had been saved!

I love you.

Capt.Failure wrote:

RhA wrote:

D-340 wrote:Quit deluding yourself, if you wanna settle for schlock, settle for it. But know, you don't have to, you choose to.

God tears open the skies! The clouds part and thunder strikes down at the soil below him. He speaks: MORTAL FOOLS! QUIT DELUDING YOURSELVES! I HAVE WITH ME, WRITTEN ON STONE SLABS WHAT THIS MORTAL WORLD MUST DEEM 'SCHLOCK' AND WHAT NOT!'

The people tremble in fear. Questions are faintly being uttered in the crowd. Have we been wrong all this time? Could we, in all of our foolishness, denied ourselves paradise by accepting schlock into our lives? Oh harsh reality! Have we been blind?
God thunders on: 'FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SETTLED FOR SCHLOCK- IT WAS YOUR CHOICE! YET, FEAR IS NOT THE ONLY PATH, THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU! BREAK FREE OF THE SCHLOCK! KNOW THAT IT IS A CHOICE. ONE THAT YOU CAN MAKE AGAIN!'

The skies close up again, the stone tablets fall to the earth and the crowds gather around them, now knowing what is truth and what is schlock. We had been saved!

I love you.

Oh sorry CF but Nemesis Maximo is his main squeeze.

Ah, how I've missed this. Everyone but those enjoy Bay's crap fests is wrong. How dare I voice anything but love and praise for Michael Bay and everything he's done. Stupid me. Just pass me the Bay Kool Aid, and forgive me for having a differing opinion. You all got me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good.

Care to point out exactly where people have said you're wrong?

I don't see it. I sure as heck don't think it. You just have an opinion that's different to mine. Doesn't make you wrong. Doesn't make me wrong either. Makes us human.

People seem to have trouble grasping that concept.

Burn wrote:Care to point out exactly where people have said you're wrong?

I don't see it. I sure as heck don't think it. You just have an opinion that's different to mine. Doesn't make you wrong. Doesn't make me wrong either. Makes us human.

People seem to have trouble grasping that concept.

Ain't gotta say "You're wrong for disliking the movies", just everyone who loves the movies rips everything those who don't to shreds. That's what happened here. Hell, I don't care, ain't gotta play nice, but really. Everyone is all like "Those who hate the movies can't see the other side of the argument", yet anyone who voices an opinion other than "I LOVE MICHAEL BAY AND ALL HIS GREAT MOVIES!" gets torn down. That's the thing on both side, no one wants to hear the others opinion. But hey, y'all wanna give ol jack ass Bay Boy your hard earned money so he can keep tea bagging you with wrecking ball sized testicles(what vehicle on Devastator had wrecking balls? Oh that's right, none, Bay told the animators to do it cuz he thought it was funny. This is your director.) I for one refuse. And god forbid me from doing anything but unconditionally loving the drek that Bay continues to crap down the movie going public's throat.

Oh, and to answer your question on what else do we have? How's about nearly 30 years of fiction in cartoon and comic form? Yeah, I'll be watching and reading that, and not just the dreaded GEEWUN(god forbid any Transformers fan likes that, makes us elitist tools).