Machinima Transformers Combiner Wars Episode 7 'Darkest Hour' Now Online

Sabrblade wrote:

Autobot N wrote:

Galactic Prime wrote:IDW is garbage, has been since day one.

Not this again.

Lemme guess, this is gonna lead to another eventual round of "They should bring back to G1 cartoon!" again, isn't it.

Galactic Prime wrote:No, but it's no Dreamwave.

o.supreme wrote:20 years from now...if we are speaking of significant hero deaths in Transformers fiction there will be Optimus in TF:TM, Dinobot in BW "Code of Hero" and....

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:20 years from now...if we are speaking of significant hero deaths in Transformers fiction there will be Optimus in TF:TM, Dinobot in BW "Code of Hero" and....

Skids


EDIT: And Ratchet? I found that pretty damn sad in AOE. Brutal too.

william-james88 wrote:And Ratchet? I found that pretty damn sad in AOE. Brutal too.

o.supreme wrote:20 years from now...if we are speaking of significant hero deaths in Transformers fiction there will be Optimus in TF:TM, Dinobot in BW "Code of Hero" and....


not Windblade in CW

as for DW all I will say is this...too many people cannot separate Pat Lee from DW. Yes he was a crook, and is a terrible person. But the stories that DW as a company (the authors and TRUE artists ) were developing were pretty darn good. I really miss their G1 ongoing, though it only got 10 (or so) issues before getting cancelled, I liked the world they were building better than current IDW.

o.supreme wrote:But the stories that DW as a company (the authors and TRUE artists ) were developing were pretty darn good. I really miss their G1 ongoing, though it only got 10 (or so) issues before getting cancelled, I liked the world they were building better than current IDW.

Randomhero wrote:Yeah but even without thinking about their terrible business practices, they weren't doing anything amazing in the comics. I'll never understand why DW was so compelled to introduce characters in their toy waves like they did. Brad Mick retconned the first story so that only the 1984 bots and cons were on earth, made all the triple changers shockwaves personal squad, turned the 85 car bots into a council that leads cybertron with no regards to their personalities, made all the 86 movie characters a rebellion unit against Shockwave. For whatever reason they introduced characters in waves like they were coming to stores and they weren't. Dreamwave tossed characters in roles that did not fit their personalities just to place them in the waves they were released in back in the 80s. Ex grapple and Red Alert apparently can become leaders of Cybertron. And while yes, IDW has done complete 180s of characters personalities they're not desperately trying to recreate the feeling of the cartoon like DW was doing.

Looking back on it, it really felt like DW had no future plans for Transformers. By year 3 they were already heading toward Unicron and already introduced most of the G1 transformers. IDW has been around for 11 years and is still making long term plans. Season 2 of MTMTE just wrapped and ended plot threads Roberts seeded back in 2012 in chaos and stuff that was in Bullets in LSTOW from 2010.

You'd have to really try to work hard to convince anyone DW was thinking ahead with long term plans. Mick and Patyck had some plans but every time they were seeding something, Furman was countering it with War Within. Example being triple changers.

Big Grim wrote:

o.supreme wrote:But the stories that DW as a company (the authors and TRUE artists ) were developing were pretty darn good. I really miss their G1 ongoing, though it only got 10 (or so) issues before getting cancelled, I liked the world they were building better than current IDW.

It basically tried to continue the original G1 prior to the 86 movie and season 3 after a fashion. There were a good few entertaining stories, sure, but honestly, I have been enjoying IDW's total relaunch a lot better. Starting it all up again in modern times, it's gotten progressively better. Most of RiD and damn near all of MTMTE has been outta this world good. I mean heck, MTMTE has won awards! While some of DW was good (War Within was amazing) I am more than happy with IDW and how they've reinvented the brand.

william-james88 wrote:I have issues with the RID. I had a really tough time gettin through Dark Cybertron. I also have a tough time seeing Rattrap interact with Starscream, but thats just me.

Big Grim wrote:MTMTE is my primary read. It's been great fun and they've done amazing things with Megatron and the Lost Light's crew. TAAO has been slow but the preview we just saw has me pretty stoked! I quite like Rattrap and other continuity characters appearing. I love that Knockout is on the Council of Worlds. I admit, I totally hear his voice when I read his lines.

Big Grim wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I have issues with the RID. I had a really tough time gettin through Dark Cybertron. I also have a tough time seeing Rattrap interact with Starscream, but thats just me.

RID had it's issues, sure. It's been better of late though it has seemed to keep building up to something and fizzling out before it gets there. I think everyone had a hard time getting through Dark Cybertron. That was rough.

MTMTE is my primary read. It's been great fun and they've done amazing things with Megatron and the Lost Light's crew. TAAO has been slow but the preview we just saw has me pretty stoked! I quite like Rattrap and other continuity characters appearing. I love that Knockout is on the Council of Worlds. I admit, I totally hear his voice when I read his lines.

william-james88 wrote:

Big Grim wrote:I love that Knockout is on the Council of Worlds. I admit, I totally hear his voice when I read his lines.

Is it just me or does that voice sound like Phil Hartman?

Randomhero wrote:

Big Grim wrote:MTMTE is my primary read. It's been great fun and they've done amazing things with Megatron and the Lost Light's crew. TAAO has been slow but the preview we just saw has me pretty stoked! I quite like Rattrap and other continuity characters appearing. I love that Knockout is on the Council of Worlds. I admit, I totally hear his voice when I read his lines.

I love RID, it's my primary and MTMTE is my secondary. I can see how it flips with people. RID is about plot while MTMTE is about character for the most part.

Only issue I've had with RID is that it easily forgets characters it introduces. Remember Zetca? Tappet? Blurr? DIRGE?!?!? Dirge was extremely important to the first 17 issues and now he may get a cameo in Till All Are One. Then again the focus on RID isn't on Cybertron anymore.

Randomhero wrote:they weren't doing anything amazing in the comics.

Randomhero wrote:I'll never understand why DW was so compelled to introduce characters in their toy waves like they did.

Randomhero wrote:characters in roles that did not fit their personalities

Exactly how I feel about IDW

Randomhero wrote:Looking back on it, it really felt like DW had no future plans for Transformers. By year 3 they were already heading toward Unicron and already introduced most of the G1 transformers.

Madeus Prime wrote:Figured they'd do something cliche like this. Starscream goes psycho with power, what else is new? Only good part is the ridiculous ball/floating head of power, very anime-esque (evil being is destroyed only to make it worse).

o.supreme wrote:

Randomhero wrote:they weren't doing anything amazing in the comics.

Exactly how I feel about IDW since All hail megatron ended.

Randomhero wrote:I'll never understand why DW was so compelled to introduce characters in their toy waves like they did.

I'll never understand why IDW just has characters show up randomly without any proper introduction or backstory

Randomhero wrote:characters in roles that did not fit their personalities

Exactly how I feel about IDW

Randomhero wrote:Looking back on it, it really felt like DW had no future plans for Transformers. By year 3 they were already heading toward Unicron and already introduced most of the G1 transformers.

You tell me after all of Furmans dull-as-dishwater "tion" series IDW had long term plans?--They got lucky, switched up some new writers and artists (several from DW btw)...and had the funds to keep going. The only difference is the fact that DW had a terrible business model. Had DW been legit financially...I could very easily see it still around today. Had IDW been solvent financially. I can see them as a distant memory... It is simply a matter of funding in this case...

Just like Spectacular Spider-Man/ Avengers EMH...most agreed were great animated series...however MARVEL pulls funding and gives it to Disney--the result...two vastly inferior series, though funded with deeper pockets, has the ability to go on for a long time.

Except in this case...I know most fans are pleased with current IDW...I get that...but I can still dream about "what if" DW continued...

Kurona wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZOKHT1t0U

I... I really don't have a clue what's going on anymore. It's just a lot of things happening.

Kurona wrote:I'm starting to feel really weird about this series.

Like, it's bad; no doubt about it (and unless the last episode is a miracle of writing that's not going to change). And there's so many things on this episode I could comment on and criticise - the half-hearted undeserved death scene, the original 'ultimate combiner' design for Starscream before he broke up being really bland, just everything in general being an unexplained mess...

But I can't. I can't really bring myself to. I don't really feel anger or disappointment when I watch this anymore; I just feel kind of... empty. Like. There's just nothing. It's just there, and it's bad, and it's embarrassing. And it's nothing.

DarkEnergon wrote:Oh, and I can't even show my kids this harmless show because at the bottom of the Go90 app is always a talk show about sex toys or something.

o.supreme wrote:

Randomhero wrote: As for their personalities, why do they have to be exactly like the cartoon or marvel comic?

I am confused...you were the one that first mentioned DW characters did not fit their personalities...I just redirected your thoughts towards IDW..because to ME Those characters are the ones that do not fit...

All the story points you mentioned mean little if someone simply doesn't enjoy them. Of all the IDW stories..Stormbringer was ok...All Hail Megatron was the best. I had high hopes for Combiner Wars but it was a bit of a let down (not nearly as bad as this animated series however)Sorry...Megatron being an Autobot is just plain stupid, that is just one example of many. The reason why I enjoyed DW so much is yes because it in some ways reminded me of the original animated series I enjoy to this day (while clearly not being the same), and nothing else has come close. When I read DW comics I can clearly hear all the animated character voices in my head...when I read IDW...Its like hearing the Omni Productions English dub of Headmasters... its just not right.

1984forever wrote:What Hasbro should do is simply reanimate the G1 cartoon with better action sequences using the current toy models while keeping all the old audio.

1984forever wrote:What Hasbro should do is simply reanimate the G1 cartoon with better action sequences using the current toy models while keeping all the old audio.

D-Maximus_Primal wrote:I will finish the last episode, but this to me hasn't been very good. Very.... something. I would need time to think about proper words for it

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

Kurona wrote:

1984forever wrote:What Hasbro should do is simply reanimate the G1 cartoon with better action sequences using the current toy models while keeping all the old audio.

Nah. The animation - style, errors and all - was part of it's charm.

1984forever wrote:But there hasn't been a watchable Transformers show in almost 30 years!

Kurona wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

I guess I can at least say I've been able to get through all episodes of this. Energon I was only able to make it to Episode 17 before quitting out of sheer unbearability (also they turned the only good character, Demolishor, into a generic mook)

... then again, if we're going by that criteria I guess I dislike RiD 2001 worse than both since I got through only a few episodes of that (I think only until the one where they introduced the combaticon recolours and scourge?) before I couldn't take the boredom anymore

1984forever wrote:

Kurona wrote:

1984forever wrote:What Hasbro should do is simply reanimate the G1 cartoon with better action sequences using the current toy models while keeping all the old audio.

Nah. The animation - style, errors and all - was part of it's charm.

Yes and we'll all keep our old G1 DVDs.

But there hasn't been a watchable Transformers show in almost 30 years! If they can't come out with anything better, then do like the classics toy line and improve upon the old.

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

I guess I can at least say I've been able to get through all episodes of this. Energon I was only able to make it to Episode 17 before quitting out of sheer unbearability (also they turned the only good character, Demolishor, into a generic mook)

... then again, if we're going by that criteria I guess I dislike RiD 2001 worse than both since I got through only a few episodes of that (I think only until the one where they introduced the combaticon recolours and scourge?) before I couldn't take the boredom anymore

I really liked RiD 2001 actually. It was pretty good to me. Energon was ear-torture to me though. Kicker needed to die in a fire. I never got through more than four episodes if that much.

Kurona wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

I guess I can at least say I've been able to get through all episodes of this. Energon I was only able to make it to Episode 17 before quitting out of sheer unbearability (also they turned the only good character, Demolishor, into a generic mook)

... then again, if we're going by that criteria I guess I dislike RiD 2001 worse than both since I got through only a few episodes of that (I think only until the one where they introduced the combaticon recolours and scourge?) before I couldn't take the boredom anymore

I really liked RiD 2001 actually. It was pretty good to me. Energon was ear-torture to me though. Kicker needed to die in a fire. I never got through more than four episodes if that much.

Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all.
Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

I guess I can at least say I've been able to get through all episodes of this. Energon I was only able to make it to Episode 17 before quitting out of sheer unbearability (also they turned the only good character, Demolishor, into a generic mook)

... then again, if we're going by that criteria I guess I dislike RiD 2001 worse than both since I got through only a few episodes of that (I think only until the one where they introduced the combaticon recolours and scourge?) before I couldn't take the boredom anymore

I really liked RiD 2001 actually. It was pretty good to me. Energon was ear-torture to me though. Kicker needed to die in a fire. I never got through more than four episodes if that much.

Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all.
Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

He, Scourge, and another awesome version of Fort Max were all great things that came out of RiD.

Decepticon Stryker wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

I guess I can at least say I've been able to get through all episodes of this. Energon I was only able to make it to Episode 17 before quitting out of sheer unbearability (also they turned the only good character, Demolishor, into a generic mook)

... then again, if we're going by that criteria I guess I dislike RiD 2001 worse than both since I got through only a few episodes of that (I think only until the one where they introduced the combaticon recolours and scourge?) before I couldn't take the boredom anymore

I really liked RiD 2001 actually. It was pretty good to me. Energon was ear-torture to me though. Kicker needed to die in a fire. I never got through more than four episodes if that much.

Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all.
Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

He, Scourge, and another awesome version of Fort Max were all great things that came out of RiD.

It also have us a figure that has almost twice as many modes as Sixshot.

Kurona wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:

Kurona wrote:

Randomhero wrote:Series is still better than Energon. I guess that's not hard when energon sets the bar so low through

I guess I can at least say I've been able to get through all episodes of this. Energon I was only able to make it to Episode 17 before quitting out of sheer unbearability (also they turned the only good character, Demolishor, into a generic mook)

... then again, if we're going by that criteria I guess I dislike RiD 2001 worse than both since I got through only a few episodes of that (I think only until the one where they introduced the combaticon recolours and scourge?) before I couldn't take the boredom anymore

I really liked RiD 2001 actually. It was pretty good to me. Energon was ear-torture to me though. Kicker needed to die in a fire. I never got through more than four episodes if that much.

Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all.
Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

Precisely. I just rewatched the last 4 minutes of The Rebirth and there's nothing there designed to lead the audience to believe that the series is meant to continue. The deliveries, the musical cues, the overall tone, and of course the Golden Age bit are all designed to make you feel a sense of satisfaction and conclusion. What dangling plot points that are left seem clearly to be of the "it never ends" variety, rather than the "tune in next week" variety.

But to address the larger issue, even if S4 didn't end with a very satisfying conclusion (though what I wouldn't give to be able to skip over to the parallel universe where they gave David Wise 5 episodes to accomplish all of this rather than three!) a direct sequel, today, would be a certain misfire. Consider.

It wouldn't SOUND like the G1 cartoon. Many of the vocal cast has passed on. Some no longer act. Some would just be prohibitively expensive. Wally Burr just had a serious stroke. So you'd be casting new people, with a new vocal director. Maybe the old music and sound effects could be dug up. Maybe. But the voices would certainly be different.

It wouldn't LOOK like the G1 cartoon. The animation industry has evolved. Would it be IMPOSSIBLE to make something look just like Sunbow? I suppose not. But no one's doing that right now, which means you'd have to relearn all those techniques. And that'd, again, be prohibitively expensive. Much much much more likely you'd bring in a modern studio using modern techniques and then get a modern looking cartoon. Maybe they'd use the old animation models. Maybe. But creative people like to put their own spin on things, as they should, and I suspect you'd get all the characters redesigned.

It wouldn't be WRITTEN like the G1 cartoon. Admittedly this would probably be the easiest one to get right, since guys like Wise and Dille are still around. But, as we saw with ReGeneration One, there's this weight of history and expectations that would be hard to resist. Had we gotten a full-on season 4 or a proper season 5 back in the day, the show would have continued to have a zany, episodic structure only loosely punctuated by a few tentpole continuity-heavy episodes. Were someone to try to revisit it now, there would be an overly big focus on the classic characters (the Bumblebees, Soundwaves, Galvatrons, Hot Rods, Grimlocks, etc) and not the new waves of toys we actually got in year 4 and 5. And there would be the temptation to make the series bigger, include season-long arcs and subplots, and that just wasn't how TV was written back them.

And a show that looks, sounds, and is structured differently than the G1 toon, well, it just wouldn't be the G1 toon, no matter what continuity it purports to be in. Better to just move on, make something that can be unabashedly, unashamedly new. If you must, MUST have more Sunbow, I'd suggest that a Dille / Guidi partnership could probably do a credible job of bringing it to the pages of a comic. But I think the whole idea is flawed and unnecessary.

-JimS

Kurona wrote:Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all. Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

o.supreme wrote:

Kurona wrote:Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all. Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

Not to split hairs...but I actually prefer Energon to Armada. I'm not saying Energon is good mind you..But I'll take the combining gimmick over lamepokemonminicons any day, and to me Kicker is almost likable next to Billy & Fred. I think they along with that pink bunny from Zone are the only organic characters I've wished death upon in a TF animated series.

Kurona wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Kurona wrote:Oh yeah, Energon was easily the worst cartoon; no question about it. I think it's the one thing everyone here can agree on. Was just making fun of my own criteria is all. Plus, even if I didn't like RiD; I have to admit it at least gave us Sky-Byte.

Not to split hairs...but I actually prefer Energon to Armada. I'm not saying Energon is good mind you..But I'll take the combining gimmick over lamepokemonminicons any day, and to me Kicker is almost likable next to Billy & Fred. I think they along with that pink bunny from Zone are the only organic characters I've wished death upon in a TF animated series.

... okay, we can at least all agree that Kiss Players is the worst thing ever and should never have existed, right?