iTunes Preview of IDW Transformers vs Visionaries #5 (Final Issue)

I for one cannot wait for this issue, aside from it being the end of an atrocious series, I'll also be able to give my thoughts of it, and the series as a whole, in the form of a non-review that will no doubt infuriate/piss off those of you who expect professional The Outhousers level reviews.

I am half expecting a moment akin to the end of BW "Power Surge". Wherein a defeated Virulina is confronted by Darkstorm, emerging from the shadows.

I'm expecting the last panel to show the visionaries happy on a new world...right before its eaten by unicron.

Burn I look forward to your non-review, I think it captured my thoughts beautifully last time.

...I prefer the new designs...sorry primalxconvoy! also think you squeezed too much text in those first two balloons, couldn't work out what they were saying.

ZeroWolf wrote:...I prefer the new designs...sorry primalxconvoy! also think you squeezed too much text in those first two balloons, couldn't work out what they were saying.

Sorry about that. The original image is fine, and it uploaded fine to TFW2005. Maybe Seibertron changes the resolution to a maximum one?

Just to check; did you click on the image? It will then open in a larger resolution.

ZeroWolf wrote:...I prefer the new designs...

It's Mad Max though, not Visionairies.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:...I prefer the new designs...

It's Mad Max though, not Visionairies.

They have the holograms and armour they are visionaries to me, and also the best part of this series by a country mile. It's a shame that they'll go down with this series as unless it's going well elsewhere, I don't think idw will rush visionaries to be part of the reboot. So I think they'll return to gather dust.

I understand that some people will prefer the old style but is it that hard to believe that some would prefer the new style?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:...I prefer the new designs...

It's Mad Max though, not Visionairies.

Yes, because all of their books are Chrome books, not magic books...

At the end of the day ZeroWolf, the setting of Visionaries was medieval with real armour akin to actual knights. This Mad Max Neon rubbish wouldn't protect you from anything. The old stuff was practical for the world they lived in. Clearly whoever designed this look neither appreciated their armour wasn't just for show and/or didn't care and wanted to make their own version of the source material. Such hubris rarely ends well....Bayformers

That's how remakes and adaptions go though. Obviously idw and hasbro decided that the visionaries as they were, didn't work otherwise they would have stuck around a lot longer. So they decided to have a change. Which is what they are allowed to do, as it's their money they're wasting. Also as much as we mock bayformers, paramount and hasbro were still as pleased as punch till the last after looking at how profitable they were. Making money is their only goal after all.

ZeroWolf wrote:That's how remakes and adaptions go though. Obviously idw and hasbro decided that the visionaries as they were, didn't work otherwise they would have stuck around a lot longer. So they decided to have a change. Which is what they are allowed to do, as it's their money they're wasting. Also as much as we mock bayformers, paramount and hasbro were still as pleased as punch till the last after looking at how profitable they were. Making money is their only goal after all.

Remakes can work that way if people are familiar with the source material. If they brought this Visionaries out in the 90's it might have worked. But in 2018, many who had no idea what Visionaries was will walk away thinking it was this all along. The show only lasted a season and although it was a collection of one & done stories with no overarching narrative, it had potential. But this series has effectively poisoned that well.

Also Bayformers would probably have made more money if the aesthetic wasn't an overdetailed and vomit-inducing mess. Certainly a more visually pleasing TF design could have made the shortcomings of those films more palatable.

NOT Visionaries. NOT Transformers. Just a big bunch of SJW politics porn. Leoric is WHITE not Black. Sorry. Same for Matt Trakker of MASK for that matter. IDW sucks Satan's balls in hell, and all you millennial scummers who don't agree, suck along with them.

Well, that escalated quickly...

Transcendent30 wrote:NOT Visionaries. NOT Transformers. Just a big bunch of SJW politics porn. Leoric is WHITE not Black. Sorry. Same for Matt Trakker of MASK for that matter. IDW sucks Satan's balls in hell, and all you millennial scummers who don't agree, suck along with them.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but you don't need to throw around insults like a child throwing a tantrum.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Well, that escalated quickly...

Indeed. You would think that the comics gained sentience and started killing people with that level of response...I smell a sfyf original movie...comicnado.

Burn wrote:I for one cannot wait for this issue, aside from it being the end of an atrocious series, I'll also be able to give my thoughts of it, and the series as a whole, in the form of a non-review that will no doubt infuriate/piss off those of you who expect professional The Outhousers level reviews.

I am sure whatever you have to say about it will be to the point.

edit: wow, reading up... sounds like someone needs a diaper change.

Just for the record, I want to state that, although I don't like characters changing ethnicities, etc for no reason, I'm all for SJ issues, more inclusivity, etc. I am really looking forward to the new female Doctor Who, would love to see Edris Elba as James Bond, etc.

For me, I applaud the idea, but distain the execution in some IDW stories.

primalxconvoy wrote:Just for the record, I want to state that, although I don't like characters changing ethnicities, etc for no reason, I'm all for SJ issues, more inclusivity, etc. I am really looking forward to the new female Doctor Who, would love to see Edris Elba as James Bond, etc.

No see, I have to disagree.

I'm all for women taking a more starring role, I'm all for more ethnicities in starring roles. But why take existing characters and swap their genders and/or races?

It's just plain lazy. Why not make the effort to create new characters?

They hype that such gender / race swaps are ground breaking. No, it's not. There is nothing ground breaking about casting a female to play The Doctor. There have been a number of women in sci-fi shows for decades who have had the lead role. Has no one heard of Eleanor Ripley? Sarah Connor? Katherine Janeway? DANA SCULLY?

I've ready many people say Marvel are pandering to the SJW's. How? They're actually introducing diversity in the right way. They don't take existing characters and gender/race swap them. They introduce NEW characters based on existing characters.

nah fuck this gender/race swap for diversity sake. If people are going to create, then put some fucking effort into your creativity. Don't just take an existing character to change them for the sake of diversity. It's just lazy.

Burn wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:Just for the record, I want to state that, although I don't like characters changing ethnicities, etc for no reason, I'm all for SJ issues, more inclusivity, etc. I am really looking forward to the new female Doctor Who, would love to see Edris Elba as James Bond, etc.

No see, I have to disagree.

I'm all for women taking a more starring role, I'm all for more ethnicities in starring roles. But why take existing characters and swap their genders and/or races?

It's just plain lazy. Why not make the effort to create new characters?

They hype that such gender / race swaps are ground breaking. No, it's not. There is nothing ground breaking about casting a female to play The Doctor. There have been a number of women in sci-fi shows for decades who have had the lead role. Has no one heard of Eleanor Ripley? Sarah Connor? Katherine Janeway? DANA SCULLY?

I've ready many people say Marvel are pandering to the SJW's. How? They're actually introducing diversity in the right way. They don't take existing characters and gender/race swap them. They introduce NEW characters based on existing characters.

nah **** this gender/race swap for diversity sake. If people are going to create, then put some **** effort into your creativity. Don't just take an existing character to change them for the sake of diversity. It's just lazy.

I totally agree. I don't think changing existing characters for the sake of it is a good idea, either (unless it's in Hollywood, and using certain actors just makes more sense, due to "star power" or a lack of actors with the "correct" ethnicity/gender having the talent needed, etc).

I'm all for a change in position or roles for the same character, or new characters taking over.

However, in franchises like James Bond and Doctor Who, these lend themselves perfectly to gender it ethnicity swaps, due to ambiguous nature of their character or appearance (they always change and never remain constant).

For me, in "live action" situations especially, I loved Katie Sakoff's "Starbuck" in Battlestar Galactica, "Missie" in "Doctor Who" and Samuel L Jackson's "Nick Fury" in "The Avengers".

I think we are both on basically the same page, at least, here, Burn. Perhaps different paragraphs, but certainly not like the outburst a few posts upwards (which was in a different Library, in a different territory).

<Had a post, realised it wasn't relevant to thread>

hmm..
Doctor Who is victim to modern day retconning and James Bond is the character, the MAN and the of agent half Swiss/half Scottish origin the character should remain as is.

Marvel has attempted to push change into characters by pushing Miles Morales as Spider-Man in the 616 universes and have only very recently decided to give him his own identity (Spy-D), they replaced Tony Stark with Riri Williams but still called the book IronMAN, the Hulk Bruce Banner was dropped for Amadeus Cho and more recently Jennifer Walter (She-Hulk) is now being called Hulk with the 'she' being dropped from the long established character. X-23 again a now established character being called Wolverine that not growth that's poor churning/recycling.

I'm all for more variety but it's the agendas behind it i find questionable.

Until I see equal 'change' in Asian Cinema, Bollywood and Nollywood and their pop cultures I won't hold Hollywood and western pop culture up on 'demanded change' pedestal either.

Coptur wrote:Marvel has attempted to push change into characters by pushing Miles Morales as Spider-Man in the 616 universes and have only very recently decided to give him his own identity (Spy-D)

Wait, really? Spy-D? That's bloody horrible! He was fine as a Spider-Man. He'd earned the name.

Yeah I was find with miles being spiderman, and riri being iron heart. As for Dr who, the ability to change genders was only added in s6 (the doctors wife) and when I heard it is knew what was coming...though to be brutally honest they should have just put the curse of fatal death in canon and them we'd already had a female doctor anyways, with visionaries we only have a changed appearance and one race swap which from what I can tell, only bothers those with a connection to the original which this is not trying to be in any form. I mean TF in idw is nothing like it is in g1 cartoon or marvel comics.

Using an established name and character archetype to expand representation across a variety of races, genders, ethnicities, ages, and more is just fine. Representation matters. In this context, Leoric, like Matt Trakker before him in the now concluded IDW MASK run, is one of the few bright spots in an otherwise not so great series.

I like it when even crazy scifi/fantasy comics can reflect some of the real world, and the real world is diverse. Some people have the same names and look completely different. Sometimes Optimus Prime is an oil tanker or crocodile, but the appearance didn't really change who he was in those instances.

I'm glad this comic is ending though. At any rate it will mean this thread dies on the vine within a few weeks' time.

ScottyP wrote:At any rate it will mean this thread dies on the vine within a few weeks' time.

Deep down you know it'll be like that "Alpha Bravo Friend/Foe?" thread that Va'al likes to keep bumping to remind people of how much of a horrible person he is.

Burn wrote:

ScottyP wrote:At any rate it will mean this thread dies on the vine within a few weeks' time.

Deep down you know it'll be like that "Alpha Bravo Friend/Foe?" thread that Va'al likes to keep bumping to remind people of how much of a horrible person he is.

Well there will be the trade paperback stuff in a couple months. Then, when I think it's really dead, in four or five years when it's released in the Transformers IDW Collection Phase F Volume It, this will be bumped like a vast undead predatory bird ready to remind me of its former "glory"

ScottyP wrote:

Burn wrote:

ScottyP wrote:At any rate it will mean this thread dies on the vine within a few weeks' time.

Deep down you know it'll be like that "Alpha Bravo Friend/Foe?" thread that Va'al likes to keep bumping to remind people of how much of a horrible person he is.

Well there will be the trade paperback stuff in a couple months. Then, when I think it's really dead, in four or five years when it's released in the Transformers IDW Collection Phase F Volume It, this will be bumped like a vast undead predatory bird ready to remind me of its former "glory"

I could make it disappear to places where I'm sure even Va'al doesn't have access ...

I think in Visionaries, both Cryotek and Leoric's ethnicity was changed. Cryotek, being the old fuddy-duddy he is, didn't like that.

Burn wrote:I could make it disappear to places where I'm sure even Va'al doesn't have access ...

Post-Review, Good sir

ScottyP wrote:Using an established name and character archetype to expand representation across a variety of races, genders, ethnicities, ages, and more is just fine. Representation matters. In this context, Leoric, like Matt Trakker before him in the now concluded IDW MASK run, is one of the few bright spots in an otherwise not so great series.

I like it when even crazy scifi/fantasy comics can reflect some of the real world, and the real world is diverse. Some people have the same names and look completely different. Sometimes Optimus Prime is an oil tanker or crocodile, but the appearance didn't really change who he was in those instances.

I'm glad this comic is ending though. At any rate it will mean this thread dies on the vine within a few weeks' time.

I agree with representation. However, the manner in which ANY change, for whatever motivation, or reason, is important, for me, with established franchises.

As others have said, it would seem that visual representations of characters are perhaps the most important, and changed to this would need more explanation. The degree of that change is, I'm sure, subjective, but ethnicity and gender seem rather large ones.

With Transformers, giving a different alt-mode, or aesthetic (to a transforming robot), seem less of a change than by changing the ethnicity of human (especially as no in-universe reason was given for this change). It would also seem that the change to the armour and lack of totems were also significant changes that irked fans of the originals, too.

Like I've stated before, there are plenty of reasons to change an existing character (the franchise often features change, like Doctor Who, James Bond, Transformers, real-like issues, such as bankable or capital actors,etc). However, there are other ways to include change too, such as changing the roles of existing characters, adding explanations for changes (a new character with the same name, alternate universes, etc), creating new characters, etc.

Like I've stated before, I'm very much in favour of inclusion, but I don't want history to be rewritten, either.

To be fair this was never stated to be the old visionaries the same as idw TF was never said to be the g1 of the toon. So they wouldn't need to give a reason for any change. As I'm sure I said elsewhere in this thread, they saw a chance to revamp visionaries so they took it. The old designs clearly didn't work out too well, as it would have been more popular and lasted longer. If it had a massive cult following then it would have made a comeback not long after the first couple of TF films proved their was money to be made in the past toyline. Will these designs last till they are revived once more? Maybe, maybe not as it depends on what the world at large think of them. In my opinion though, these are vastly superior and I'll think of these before the old look. This is the books only strength. Maybe I'll like the next look they'll try, but let's see what happens with the hasbroverse first

However, they've shoehorned them into a Transformers comic and universe, where, by and large, the TFs look significantly like their original G1 selves. THAT'S why people like we're unhappy. If Visionaries was a separate comic, in its own universe, that would have been better than what we had. I still wouldn't have bought Visionaries, as the changes were not good, IMO.

Actually the designs of the characters has shifted depending on the artist and on what toys were out at the time aka why starscream went through a few bodies and why jihaxus ended up in his starscream redeco body in dark cybertron. Also it seems a tenourous connection to me to assume they would be old designs that few people cared about. Besides as I said, this is clearly not supposed to be the old universe, this is to visionaries what amarda/energon/cybertron is to g1. Just hope that if the series gets another shot they try a new look or take the original designs and make it look like they made a detour to the game of thrones universe on the way to the page. Of all the things at wrong with this series, the designs aren't one of them. The fact they got paired up with Transformers in the first place is a good place to start.

However, Armada WAS a separate universe. I actually enjoyed it because of that, and it then made sense to have it crossover with (a) G1 universe, in the DW comics. If IDW had created more classic Visionaries in the stable, or main TF universe, created an alternate Visionaries' universe and THEN had it crossover, then I'd be more interested.

Transcendent30 wrote:NOT Visionaries. NOT Transformers. Just a big bunch of SJW politics porn. Leoric is WHITE not Black. Sorry. Same for Matt Trakker of MASK for that matter. IDW sucks Satan's balls in hell, and all you millennial scummers who don't agree, suck along with them.

Ah yes, I remember my first time eating bath salts. Don't worry man. You'll feel better in the morning after it wears off.

Lore Keeper wrote:

Transcendent30 wrote:NOT Visionaries. NOT Transformers. Just a big bunch of SJW politics porn. Leoric is WHITE not Black. Sorry. Same for Matt Trakker of MASK for that matter. IDW sucks Satan's balls in hell, and all you millennial scummers who don't agree, suck along with them.

Ah yes, I remember my first time eating bath salts. Don't worry man. You'll feel better in the morning after it wears off.

We have a winner!

primalxconvoy wrote:

Lore Keeper wrote:

Transcendent30 wrote:NOT Visionaries. NOT Transformers. Just a big bunch of SJW politics porn. Leoric is WHITE not Black. Sorry. Same for Matt Trakker of MASK for that matter. IDW sucks Satan's balls in hell, and all you millennial scummers who don't agree, suck along with them.

Ah yes, I remember my first time eating bath salts. Don't worry man. You'll feel better in the morning after it wears off.

We have a winner!

No, what we have is someone getting attention they don't deserve.

Move on people.

primalxconvoy wrote:However, Armada WAS a separate universe. I actually enjoyed it because of that, and it then made sense to have it crossover with (a) G1 universe, in the DW comics. If IDW had created more classic Visionaries in the stable, or main TF universe, created an alternate Visionaries' universe and THEN had it crossover, then I'd be more interested.

I don't understand, are you proposing that just because the tfs look a little like their original selves then the visionaries should as well? What if they looked the same but behaved completely different? Would that have been fine?

These are alternative visionaries, just the same as these are alternative g1 esq transformers with other universes thrown in like Tankor from beast machines or knock out from prime. These are not replacing the originals any more then idw is replacing sunbow toon, or that the bay movies replaced the toon.

Yes. I think the choice to use vastly different-looking Visionaries and MASK characters, in a story featuring other characters that look closer to their original appearance is jarring.

Any more jarring to see beast machines characters cozying up to Prime characters with new ones thrown into the mix who are original? It just seems to me to be valid petty thing to call the series out on when there are much bigoer problems. It's like your house is falling apart around you but you're wotried because there is a slight draft coming through. I guess it's one of those things that we'll have to agree to disagree though, I mean what's this series going to matter post september anyway?

I also didn't like it that they mixed up the characters for no reason, either, but at least they looked like the characters they were meant to be.

I didn't like the absence of the primary villain. Darkstorm leads the Darkling Lords. Virulina was third tier if that.

It would be like ousting Megatron for Reflector...

Reflector wishes he was third tier. Maybe the writer thought that a female badguy would be more interesting.

ZeroWolf wrote:Reflector wishes he was third tier. Maybe the writer thought that a female badguy would be more interesting.

Other than the fact the former weather woman (if memory serves) was one of the least interesting characters in the entire show. Whilst also clearly being Token. Was she interesting in this?

In contrast Darkstorm was the most interesting villain in the show. Likewise his powerset was among the best in the entire series.


Also, Reflector: Emperor of Destruction... It's coming!

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Reflector wishes he was third tier. Maybe the writer thought that a female badguy would be more interesting.

Other than the fact the former weather woman (if memory serves) was one of the least interesting characters in the entire show. Whilst also clearly being Token. Was she interesting in this?

In contrast Darkstorm was the most interesting villain in the show. Likewise his powerset was among the best in the entire series.


Also, Reflector: Emperor of Destruction... It's coming!

She was either Model or a weather presenter.

I agree Darkstorm is by far the most interesting Darkling Lord next to Reekon both have been hugely under used in this series...well the former being dead hasn't helped. this series has been a big let down and poorly managed from the get go.

Hey I love Reflector needed more from him across the 30+ years

- Not in G1 Marvel (no those random bots in issue 4 (?) are not Reflector no amount of poor retconning will convince me.
- Character was to be forgotten from season 2 G1 toon
- no mass retail toy....well except the tiny gun with Shrapnel
- killing off in IDW twice
- edited out of Animated
- killed off in DW (??)

we need more Reflector love

There was that reflector botcon toy from the last convention...that hasbro let funpub have because they didn't want it...huh never realised how much reflector had been given the short end of the stick.

As I said before, obviously the writer thought she was interesting or maybe she thought the series needed a female badguy guy, I mean you going to use a token girl, why not make her the boss? The writer though obviously had her reasons (which we can merely speculate) and her editors agreed and hasbro agreed, which shows what they think of visionaries really. I mean Rom and micronaughts were done better. Though I guess Rom was lucky that the then editor loved him so made sure he was treated with care

What it comes down to is unless a Licensed property has a huge and/or cult following, it is essentially a higher profile platform for a given writer to tell a story they want to make.

No one out there says Visionaries was "their childhood" in the way those would of Transformers, He-Man, TMNT, Thundercats etc Even Rom had a decade or two of relative success within Marvel Comics. That afforded a lot of liberties to be taken using the cache of the name "Visionaries". This is the result.

Visionaries was still PART of my childhood. That's why they were used here; because it was an established franchise. If IDW wants to go in a completely new direction, then fine; create a new franchise. If it wants to "cash in" on nostalgia, then do that, too.

Just don't make MASK and Visionaries like this.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:What it comes down to is unless a Licensed property has a huge and/or cult following, it is essentially a higher profile platform for a given writer to tell a story they want to make.

No one out there says Visionaries was "their childhood" in the way those would of Transformers, He-Man, TMNT, Thundercats etc Even Rom had a decade or two of relative success within Marvel Comics. That afforded a lot of liberties to be taken using the cache of the name "Visionaries". This is the result.

Exactly. Time will tell what they'll attempt to do with this next.

@Primalxconvoy yes but the point is in terms of scale, Visionairies is quite far down the list in terms of how prominent they are in memories and how large the fan bases are. It's not a pleasant thing of course and I know the feeling as I'm a fan of a few things that are considered dead more or less but I would appreciate it if a company tried to resurrect them, even by trying something new. As I've said before, the old comics and figures are still there, waiting to be found and can still sit along side these new versions the same as g1 prime can stand alongside prime from the studio series.