IDW Transformers 30th Anniversary Ken Christiansen Interlocked Covers

SimianProphet wrote:There is a philosophical question that goes:
- "If you could travel back in time, and kill Hitler as a child, would you?"

The idea being that you would be saving the future from the horrors of WW2 and the holocaust, but you would be murdering someone who (at the time) is an innocent. Then there are follow-up thoughts, that with the outcome of WW2, the world was a very different place, and a lot of positivity, optimism, and political change came with the rebuilding after.
In this, I see the parallel:
- "What if you could travel back in time and kill Megatron while he was a "child" (innocent)"

And what would the future of Cybertron be like without a 4 million year civil war to knock the corrupt Functionist government out of control.
"Everything is fine"

Oooh, this is good. I can see this playing out given what the solicits have put in front of us the past few months.

Also, welcome to the boards!

SimianProphet wrote:Hi all, first post here.
Please bare with me if I haven't completely figured out spoiler tags

For what Brainstorm is doing at the end of this issue, I immediately had a different take on it than what I have seen posted here.

It provides yet another take on who Brainstorm might be and what his agenda could be, and may also segue well into the hints for what is coming next issue.

There is a philosophical question that goes:
- "If you could travel back in time, and kill Hitler as a child, would you?"

The idea being that you would be saving the future from the horrors of WW2 and the holocaust, but you would be murdering someone who (at the time) is an innocent. Then there are follow-up thoughts, that with the outcome of WW2, the world was a very different place, and a lot of positivity, optimism, and political change came with the rebuilding after.
In this, I see the parallel:
- "What if you could travel back in time and kill Megatron while he was a "child" (innocent)"

And what would the future of Cybertron be like without a 4 million year civil war to knock the corrupt Functionist government out of control.
"Everything is fine"

Interesting philosophical debate, that's for sure. I've always been of the mind that it's a bad idea to mess with the past.

The infinite possibilities of what could potentially happen if one thing never happened opens up a whole lot of things that could take it's place. This world has proven there's no shortage of truly evil people, the opportunity just needs to be there. So if Hitler didn't come along, some other epic tragedy would have a similar result. Genocidal maniacs are freaking everywhere.

With Brainstorm, however, I guess you could surmise that maybe he'd rather the functionalists still be in charge, given his past.

But Terminus' words pushing Megs into action lead me to believe that war was inevitable, it was all down to who would lead the rebellion.

I would so love to see an alternate reality where something happened like that though, someone going back and 'fixing' things. But then a lot of characters would disappear.

Ultra Magnus is missing from these Interlocked covers. FAIL!

Va'al wrote:Here on Seibertron.com, we have shown some of Ken Christiansen's 30th Anniversary covers for the IDW Transformers comics as we posted the reviews for the last two issues of the two main ongoings. Now, Christiansen has posted the full, interlocked artwork on his Facebook page - check it out in all its glory below!

IDW 30th Anniversary Covers

Left to Right - Transformers : Primacy #3, Transformers : Robots in Disguise # 34, and Transformers : More Than Meets the Eye #34

Awesome art work especially that crouching Prime with the blacked out face!

ScottyP wrote:

SimianProphet wrote:There is a philosophical question that goes:
- "If you could travel back in time, and kill Hitler as a child, would you?"

The idea being that you would be saving the future from the horrors of WW2 and the holocaust, but you would be murdering someone who (at the time) is an innocent. Then there are follow-up thoughts, that with the outcome of WW2, the world was a very different place, and a lot of positivity, optimism, and political change came with the rebuilding after.
In this, I see the parallel:
- "What if you could travel back in time and kill Megatron while he was a "child" (innocent)"

And what would the future of Cybertron be like without a 4 million year civil war to knock the corrupt Functionist government out of control.
"Everything is fine"

Oooh, this is good. I can see this playing out given what the solicits have put in front of us the past few months.

Also, welcome to the boards!

I wonder if, in such a world where Megatron was absent, who would step up to take his position as figurehead? The situation was boiling over, and SOMEONE was going to push it over the edge. Maybe even a beat cowboy cop inspired by an eloquent miner?

ctrlFrequency wrote:

SimianProphet wrote:Hi all, first post here.
Please bare with me if I haven't completely figured out spoiler tags

For what Brainstorm is doing at the end of this issue, I immediately had a different take on it than what I have seen posted here.

It provides yet another take on who Brainstorm might be and what his agenda could be, and may also segue well into the hints for what is coming next issue.

There is a philosophical question that goes:
- "If you could travel back in time, and kill Hitler as a child, would you?"

The idea being that you would be saving the future from the horrors of WW2 and the holocaust, but you would be murdering someone who (at the time) is an innocent. Then there are follow-up thoughts, that with the outcome of WW2, the world was a very different place, and a lot of positivity, optimism, and political change came with the rebuilding after.
In this, I see the parallel:
- "What if you could travel back in time and kill Megatron while he was a "child" (innocent)"

And what would the future of Cybertron be like without a 4 million year civil war to knock the corrupt Functionist government out of control.
"Everything is fine"

The infinite possibilities of what could potentially happen if one thing never happened opens up a whole lot of things that could take it's place. This world has proven there's no shortage of truly evil people, the opportunity just needs to be there. So if Hitler didn't come along, some other epic tragedy would have a similar result. Genocidal maniacs are freaking everywhere.


But Terminus' words pushing Megs into action lead me to believe that war was inevitable, it was all down to who would lead the rebellion.

These two paragraphs made me think of something. What if, much like the slaughter-hause arc, there are some characters unaffected because "plot". They're present on the "New Cybertron" with the functionalists still be in charge. However they know this isn't how things are supposed to be, as the functionalists would still probably be enforcing the cybertronian manifest destiny dogma, and undermining it's citizens, with the disposable class, like rewind, still in place (I.E the bodies of rewind like characters). With the frontier style justice of cutting peoples hands off, being taken into custody by secret police Et Cetera. However, society is in control, there wasn't been a 4 million year long civil war, and as long as you don't question things, everything's fine. So the characters are faced with a dilemma, keep things as they are, the functionalist regime in place, cybertron at peace under the control of a corrupt system, have some of the war born cybertronians never created, and undo what good did come from the civil war for a land at peace. Or alternatively cause/exacerbate an epic tragedy would have a similar result as the civil war, or cause a worse atrocity to restore the timeline they know. The endless war, the millions dead, the friends they lost, the innocents still dead, and the misery retained

Shuttershocks's comment makes me think of another potential parallel :

If Orion Pax ends up taking on the role of decepticon leader (at this point he had a lot of admiration for Megatron's writing, and a lot of distrust towards the senate) it is an interesting mirror image of Megatron currently leading a team of Autobots.

Who wouldn't want to see these two time-crossed leaders go head to head?

I don't really want to presume what Roberts is planning, but I'll be dammed if running these scenarios through my 'What If?' machine (patent pending) isn't fascinating!

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:

SimianProphet wrote:Hi all, first post here.
Please bare with me if I haven't completely figured out spoiler tags

For what Brainstorm is doing at the end of this issue, I immediately had a different take on it than what I have seen posted here.

It provides yet another take on who Brainstorm might be and what his agenda could be, and may also segue well into the hints for what is coming next issue.

There is a philosophical question that goes:
- "If you could travel back in time, and kill Hitler as a child, would you?"

The idea being that you would be saving the future from the horrors of WW2 and the holocaust, but you would be murdering someone who (at the time) is an innocent. Then there are follow-up thoughts, that with the outcome of WW2, the world was a very different place, and a lot of positivity, optimism, and political change came with the rebuilding after.
In this, I see the parallel:
- "What if you could travel back in time and kill Megatron while he was a "child" (innocent)"

And what would the future of Cybertron be like without a 4 million year civil war to knock the corrupt Functionist government out of control.
"Everything is fine"

The infinite possibilities of what could potentially happen if one thing never happened opens up a whole lot of things that could take it's place. This world has proven there's no shortage of truly evil people, the opportunity just needs to be there. So if Hitler didn't come along, some other epic tragedy would have a similar result. Genocidal maniacs are freaking everywhere.


But Terminus' words pushing Megs into action lead me to believe that war was inevitable, it was all down to who would lead the rebellion.

These two paragraphs made me think of something. What if, much like the slaughter-hause arc, there are some characters unaffected because "plot". They're present on the "New Cybertron" with the functionalists still be in charge. However they know this isn't how things are supposed to be, as the functionalists would still probably be enforcing the cybertronian manifest destiny dogma, and undermining it's citizens, with the disposable class, like rewind, still in place (I.E the bodies of rewind like characters). With the frontier style justice of cutting peoples hands off, being taken into custody by secret police Et Cetera. However, society is in control, there wasn't been a 4 million year long civil war, and as long as you don't question things, everything's fine. So the characters are faced with a dilemma, keep things as they are, the functionalist regime in place, cybertron at peace under the control of a corrupt system, have some of the war born cybertronians never created, and undo what good did come from the civil war for a land at peace. Or alternatively cause/exacerbate an epic tragedy would have a similar result as the civil war, or cause a worse atrocity to restore the timeline they know. The endless war, the millions dead, the friends they lost, the innocents still dead, and the misery retained

Very intriguing thought....

SimianProphet wrote:Shuttershocks's comment makes me think of another potential parallel :

If Orion Pax ends up taking on the role of decepticon leader (at this point he had a lot of admiration for Megatron's writing, and a lot of distrust towards the senate) it is an interesting mirror image of Megatron currently leading a team of Autobots.

Who wouldn't want to see these two time-crossed leaders go head to head?

That would be interesting.

SimianProphet wrote:I don't really want to presume what Roberts is planning, but I'll be dammed if running these scenarios through my 'What If?' machine (patent pending) isn't fascinating!

The what if is the most fun. it's like a giant puzzle!

So Alex Milne posted the character studies for the MTMTE charactersFroid and Terminus, two characters featured in issue #34.

From twitter, Milne stated that
"Here is one of my contributions to issue 34 of MTMTE. I was in a tf prime mood when designing him."



"My other contribution to MTMTE 34 is this he's suppose to have a lot of similarities to megarton"


Honestly Froid reminds me of Transmetal Terrorsaur

Fellow Seibertron.com user SW's SilverHammer spotted some Alex Milne tweets showing off the artist's contributions to Trasformers: MTMTE #34 - namely, character designs for Froid and Terminus, respectively the chief psychologist and Megatron's mentor. Check them out mirrored below!

"Here is one of my contributions to issue 34 of MTMTE. I was in a tf prime mood when designing him."

"My other contribution to MTMTE 34 is this he's supposed to have a lot of similarities to megatron"

Of course, Burcham had fun with it.

Wait... Froid... as in Freud?

Deathsanras wrote:Wait... Froid... as in Freud?

Yup, as in Freud, dude.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Deathsanras wrote:Wait... Froid... as in Freud?

Yup, as in Freud, dude.

The resemblance is uncanny.

Deathsanras wrote:Wait... Froid... as in Freud?

Yup, and it gets better. Rung is named for Carl Jung, another psychotherapist.

Bless you, James Roberts.

"I hate to disappoint you Rung, but sometimes a fusion cannon is just fusion cannon"

(First thing that popped to my mind when Froid was introduced, yes I know that it was Froid was no where near the scene but... still. It's a Freudian thing to say.)

I didn't make the connection between Rung and Jung though... I feel silly.

ctrlFrequency wrote:"I hate to disappoint you Rung, but sometimes a fusion cannon is just fusion cannon"

(First thing that popped to my mind when Froid was introduced, yes I know that it was Froid was no where near the scene but... still. It's a Freudian thing to say.)

I didn't make the connection between Rung and Jung though... I feel silly.

"You say that you see a fusion cannon? Interesting...". *scribble scribble*

John Stamoist wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:

1984forever wrote:
I love Brainstorm as a Decepticon agent. I'm happy to see that there is at least one AUTObot jet that took a look at his alt-mode and said "hey, I don't turn into a car, so why am I wearing an AUTObot symbol? I'm supposed to be a Decepticon!"

Here's the thing.

We don't know that Brainstorm is a Decepticon. Inside his face plate was a Decepticon symbol painted on, but we don't know the reason why it's there. It could be a million different reasons. A reminder (former Decepticon turned Autobot, the painted on symbol could be a reminder to not go back), he's a spy, he's on the fence, the DJD did it as a mark (it was painted on after all), he has a cerebo shell in his head and he didn't even know he had a symbol in his mask, he's a double agent, his faceplate came from a friend who was killed by Decepticons and he has a huge grudge, he has a really twisted sense of humor, someone else put it in there and he never knew it.
All of those are as probable as him being a Decepticon agent.
So please don't say with absolute certainty that Brainstorm is in fact a Decepticon. We don't know.

Not all Autobots are land vehicles, not all Decepticons are air vehicles. Not even in G1 were all the Autobots land vehicles and all the Decepticon Air Vehicles. Megatron was a gun, as was Shockwave, Soundwave a mini cassette player, Reflector a camera, then came aerialbots, constructicons, Stunticons, Blaster, Perceptor, Jetfire, etc. It's a faction not form.

Exactly, it could be all misdirection for who the real traitor is on the Lost Light. The most peculiar part is why Brainstorm chose to go back in time now, not this whole time he had the suitcase. People said the suitcase from the other Lost Light survived because he loves it so much, or because it's a entirely different suitcase. I think maybe he was developing the device this whole time. So on the other Lost Light the device was never completed and the suitcase was always empty, that's why it survived. Any of these is possible, just a matter of what direction they want to go. The info for next issue is weird though, them saying there's no hate or any of that so why is there a problem. Not sure if this is connected to Brainstorm, or if it alludes to the DJD coming back to speak with First Aid and them.

I like these theories. I'm not gonna spoiler mine because a) I ain't cool enough like y'all and b) I'm probably wrong so it's like more of a red herring than a spoiler.

BUT, my theory is TC is Agent 113. And maybe he got buuuuuusted. And that was why he decided to stay even after First Aid noped out.

CC, all my herrings are red.

John Stamoist wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:

1984forever wrote:
I love Brainstorm as a Decepticon agent. I'm happy to see that there is at least one AUTObot jet that took a look at his alt-mode and said "hey, I don't turn into a car, so why am I wearing an AUTObot symbol? I'm supposed to be a Decepticon!"

Here's the thing.

We don't know that Brainstorm is a Decepticon. Inside his face plate was a Decepticon symbol painted on, but we don't know the reason why it's there. It could be a million different reasons. A reminder (former Decepticon turned Autobot, the painted on symbol could be a reminder to not go back), he's a spy, he's on the fence, the DJD did it as a mark (it was painted on after all), he has a cerebo shell in his head and he didn't even know he had a symbol in his mask, he's a double agent, his faceplate came from a friend who was killed by Decepticons and he has a huge grudge, he has a really twisted sense of humor, someone else put it in there and he never knew it.
All of those are as probable as him being a Decepticon agent.
So please don't say with absolute certainty that Brainstorm is in fact a Decepticon. We don't know.

Not all Autobots are land vehicles, not all Decepticons are air vehicles. Not even in G1 were all the Autobots land vehicles and all the Decepticon Air Vehicles. Megatron was a gun, as was Shockwave, Soundwave a mini cassette player, Reflector a camera, then came aerialbots, constructicons, Stunticons, Blaster, Perceptor, Jetfire, etc. It's a faction not form.

Exactly, it could be all misdirection for who the real traitor is on the Lost Light. The most peculiar part is why Brainstorm chose to go back in time now, not this whole time he had the suitcase. People said the suitcase from the other Lost Light survived because he loves it so much, or because it's a entirely different suitcase. I think maybe he was developing the device this whole time. So on the other Lost Light the device was never completed and the suitcase was always empty, that's why it survived. Any of these is possible, just a matter of what direction they want to go. The info for next issue is weird though, them saying there's no hate or any of that so why is there a problem. Not sure if this is connected to Brainstorm, or if it alludes to the DJD coming back to speak with First Aid and them.

Wait, I was supposed to get Time Travel out of that last page? Sheesh, I need to do better at reading on a phone...

Flashwave wrote:[
Wait, I was supposed to get Time Travel out of that last page? Sheesh, I need to do better at reading on a phone...

I didn't get it either. You're not alone.

ctrlFrequency wrote:

Flashwave wrote:[
Wait, I was supposed to get Time Travel out of that last page? Sheesh, I need to do better at reading on a phone...

I didn't get it either. You're not alone.

Neither did I until I read everyone saying it. I had to go back and realize the shuttle launch announcement was during Megatron's past.

Man, I am so confused and intrigued by this arc. I've reread the past three issues, but can't theorize until I think I have a grasp of what's going on! So, please help me make some sense of things...

Confirmed: The events in this issue roughly occur at the same time as the two Lost Light's resolution.

So, whilst Megatron et al are making sense of things up in space, these four are on some planet nosing around.

Is this the same planet next to the Lost Light?

Now, theory time. When the Lost Light was restored, so was the crew. We know that the other Lost Light disappeared, except for Rewind and Brainstorm's briefcase. Is it possible that living beings with sparks perhaps were not canceled out, and is it possible that some of the crew were not killed by the DJD? Any clues to confirm that the four on the planet were not from the other Lost Light? Oh, First Aid, he wasn't with that crew originally. Ok, so they're from "our" crew.

Second, I found it very hard to accept that 5 badass decepticons can take down the whole autobot crew themselves. No sign of corpses from Whirl and several others. (or Trailcutter and Bluestreak and Mainframe, for what it's worth).

So, who f'd up Vos and Kaon?? Did they perhaps flee here after getting injured on the Lost Light?

The planet was the one next to the derelict lost light. They were some of the bots who were on the lost light shuttle that vanished.

The DJD got zapped in a space battle with the galactic council and another I forget the name. And yes, every one aboard the replica lost light was wiped out by the DJD, apart from rewind obviously.

Good thing the DJD killed the other overlord...Otherwise there would of been two of them around!

DarkEnergon wrote:Now, theory time. When the Lost Light was restored, so was the crew. We know that the other Lost Light disappeared, except for Rewind and Brainstorm's briefcase. Is it possible that living beings with sparks perhaps were not canceled out, and is it possible that some of the crew were not killed by the DJD? Any clues to confirm that the four on the planet were not from the other Lost Light? Oh, First Aid, he wasn't with that crew originally. Ok, so they're from "our" crew.

Second, I found it very hard to accept that 5 badass decepticons can take down the whole autobot crew themselves. No sign of corpses from Whirl and several others. (or Trailcutter and Bluestreak and Mainframe, for what it's worth).

For the first part of your question.... I guess we'll find out.
In theory, as long as their counterpart is dead, then the copy could still be alive (since Rewind is still alive and the 'original' died when the two continuities started colliding).
As for Brainstorm's briefcase, if the briefcase and it's contents don't match what the 'original' Brainstorm has in his (the time machine) the theory is possible the briefcase could still exist because they're not conflicting with each other.

We're working on the theory that things that weren't there when the engines exploded at launch would then not exist in duplicate (which is why there wasn't a Nautica or Nightbeat corpse). So if one of the briefcases and it's contents are not the same as when the Lost Light launched (or if the contents are physically connected to the briefcase you can say that changes the properties of the briefcase to not the same as it was at launch), it could survive simply because the other is different.
Their whole theory is that two copies can't exist in the same universe if they are near each other, so if something survives the engines being shut down, then it doesn't have a counterpart to cancel out.
(I gotta say, I just love this sort of stuff, the idea of the duplicity and what happens when it meets )

And for the second part of your question, though it is possible some of the crew is still alive because we didn't see bodies, Rewind did say that every one was killed, they may not have drawn everybody in the panels because of space.

They also never show Whirl (for example) leaving the Lost Light, we catch glimpses of his avatar, but never him. Not that I noticed at least.
Rewind did say (in #33) that the DJD used him to film the entire massacre and he says "When the finished killing the rest of the crew", so we can assume the entire crew died because Rewind stated it, though, you know, nothing is for certain.

ctrlFrequency wrote:

DarkEnergon wrote:
Second, I found it very hard to accept that 5 badass decepticons can take down the whole autobot crew themselves. No sign of corpses from Whirl and several others. (or Trailcutter and Bluestreak and Mainframe, for what it's worth).

And for the second part of your question, though it is possible some of the crew is still alive because we didn't see bodies, Rewind did say that every one was killed, they may not have drawn everybody in the panels because of space.

They also never show Whirl (for example) leaving the Lost Light, we catch glimpses of his avatar, but never him. Not that I noticed at least.
Rewind did say (in #33) that the DJD used him to film the entire massacre and he says "When the finished killing the rest of the crew", so we can assume the entire crew died because Rewind stated it, though, you know, nothing is for certain.

I agree with you DarkEnergon, it's utterly pathetic that 5 Decepticons took out ALL OF THE LOST LIGHT. Like if all 5 were Overlord level then yeah, I could buy it, but none of them is stronger than Overlord.

So how is it that 20+ Autobots can't even scratch the DJD? Ultra Magnus, Cyclonus, Whirl, Trailcutter and Drift should all be able to make at least a dent/scratch on them. Maybe they lost their fighting spirit when Rodimus died? It doesn't make sense to me, I mean half the Autobots Transformed to be executed, something is amiss here.

Considering that everyone was scared of the DJD it's quite easy to believe. I mean they were after overlord, that says everything. The DJD are quite the bogeymen of this series. I really don't think there was anything more to this then we've seen.

ZeroWolf wrote:Considering that everyone was scared of the DJD it's quite easy to believe. I mean they were after overlord, that says everything. The DJD are quite the bogeymen of this series. I really don't think there was anything more to this then we've seen.

Then by your logic the Wreckers should be pretty much overpowered as shit. But they weren't, and they still went after Overlord.

Think about it, you outnumber your enemy 5 to 1, you have some strong Autobots on board, from there the hatred of the DJD should play a part as well, leading the Autobots to slaughtering the DJD. They aren't Gundams, they can't diffuse beam weapons or any of that nonsense. I mean look at how Drift and Ratchet were killed, as if they were just sitting down letting the DJD impale them with Drift's swords.

The briefcase was empty, it could have contained a weapon that demoralizes everyone or causes them to be paralyzed. Transforming to be sacrificed is another red flag, why the hell weren't they with the others fighting the DJD? All those alt modes still outnumbered the DJD, are you really telling me their fear caused them to stand still and get killed? A couple scratches should have been left on them minimum. I mean you have Whirl and Cyclonus on board, those guys should have been able to kill a member of the DJD, let alone at least scratch them.

We may never know (I'm guessing we will never know) how the DJD managed to kill everyone. Though there might be able to be something to be said about fear, organization, circumstances.

Everyone is afraid of the DJD, that might have some play. Less seasoned warriors might be too afraid.

The DJD is a well trained, well organized, efficient killing machine. I dout the Lost Light crew was organized.

We don't know what state they were in. The Lost Light we are familiar with began pulling apart and not being normal. Was the second one falling apart too?

And I have to correct my last post because I confused my characters. I mentioned about Whirl not being seen besides his avatar... Wrong Whirl. I was talking about Whirl on Lost Light 1 not Lost Light 2. So disregard what I said there. I was being utterly confused for no good reason.

I was going by the facts we've being given. The wreckers knew they were going on a suicide mission. Overlord was that much of a monster. You may not like it but the DJD wiped everyone out. Rewind never mentioned the crew being demoralised or paralysed.

ctrlFrequency wrote:We may never know (I'm guessing we will never know) how the DJD managed to kill everyone. Though there might be able to be something to be said about fear, organization, circumstances.

Everyone is afraid of the DJD, that might have some play. Less seasoned warriors might be too afraid.

The DJD is a well trained, well organized, efficient killing machine. I dout the Lost Light crew was organized.

We don't know what state they were in. The Lost Light we are familiar with began pulling apart and not being normal. Was the second one falling apart too?

And I have to correct my last post because I confused my characters. I mentioned about Whirl not being seen besides his avatar... Wrong Whirl. I was talking about Whirl on Lost Light 1 not Lost Light 2. So disregard what I said there. I was being utterly confused for no good reason.

I think more than anything the death of Rodimus took a toll on them. Rodimus wouldn't back down if the DJD came on board, he would challenge them. That courage would have lifted the spirits of everyone, making them believe they could defeat the DJD. Since Rodimus is dead, and different events happened to this Lost Light, it's hard to tell why they were so pathetic at fighting back.

What I'm really waiting for is the DJD and Megatron confrontation that will happen. It'll be interesting to see if they will try to kill him, join him(LOL 0% chance of that happening), or ignore him only to be attacked by him and the Lost Light crew.

Megs vs DJD, I think they would break down, their poisonous loyalty betraying them. They want to follow the decpticon cause but they also obey Megatron so that's going to cause a paradox.

John Stamoist wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:We may never know (I'm guessing we will never know) how the DJD managed to kill everyone. Though there might be able to be something to be said about fear, organization, circumstances.

Everyone is afraid of the DJD, that might have some play. Less seasoned warriors might be too afraid.

The DJD is a well trained, well organized, efficient killing machine. I dout the Lost Light crew was organized.

We don't know what state they were in. The Lost Light we are familiar with began pulling apart and not being normal. Was the second one falling apart too?

And I have to correct my last post because I confused my characters. I mentioned about Whirl not being seen besides his avatar... Wrong Whirl. I was talking about Whirl on Lost Light 1 not Lost Light 2. So disregard what I said there. I was being utterly confused for no good reason.

I think more than anything the death of Rodimus took a toll on them. Rodimus wouldn't back down if the DJD came on board, he would challenge them. That courage would have lifted the spirits of everyone, making them believe they could defeat the DJD. Since Rodimus is dead, and different events happened to this Lost Light, it's hard to tell why they were so pathetic at fighting back.

What I'm really waiting for is the DJD and Megatron confrontation that will happen. It'll be interesting to see if they will try to kill him, join him(LOL 0% chance of that happening), or ignore him only to be attacked by him and the Lost Light crew.

One might think they may be leading up to that...

It would be very interesting to see. I'm of the mind they would just do away with Megs since their mission includes disposing of traitors, which by Ravage's words, it's easy to conclude the remaining Decpticons feel Megs turned traitor.

How that will come out... I won't even guess. So many possibilities (though I doubt they'll kill off Megs for good, at least)

ZeroWolf wrote:I was going by the facts we've being given. The wreckers knew they were going on a suicide mission. Overlord was that much of a monster. You may not like it but the DJD wiped everyone out. Rewind never mentioned the crew being demoralised or paralysed.

Exactly, it doesn't matter if I like it or not, but leaving a giant plot hole is what I don't like. I'm sure eventually they'll explain what happened, but I can't believe 5 Decepticons did that to all those Autobots without something else playing a factor. If the Decepticons had that kind of strength this whole time due to the DJD, then the war would have ended a long time ago.

They actually allude to it indirectly when Rewind retells the story of what happened. The DJD killed Overlord fist, then moved on to killing the Autobots because they were having so much fun. Rewind said something along those lines, not exact quote but the same message. So this means that the Autobots for some reason let the DJD go to the cell to kill Overlord, then started fighting when the DJD returned. So what happened that would make the Autobots let them go to Overlord instead of attacking them all out from the beginning? It could be their fear, hoping the DJD would leave after killing Overlord, some sort of device that rendered them motionless, or even a deal struck up that they thought the DJD would hold to.

ctrlFrequency wrote:

One might think they may be leading up to that...

It would be very interesting to see. I'm of the mind they would just do away with Megs since their mission includes disposing of traitors, which by Ravage's words, it's easy to conclude the remaining Decpticons feel Megs turned traitor.

How that will come out... I won't even guess. So many possibilities (though I doubt they'll kill off Megs for good, at least)

That's why I want to see this confrontation so bad, there could be any number of various reactions. It would be interesting if the DJD wants to kill Megatron except Tarn. I only say Tarn since he worships Megatron and named himself after the city of Tarn because of Megs. It's more than likely they will attack Megatron and the Autobots, but that could be why Brainstorm is in the past.......

I took it that the DJD snuck on board to kill overlord. Remember orcams razor (I haven't got that name right at all, have I). Often the simplest solution is the right one. Here the simplest is that the DJD killed the whole crew including the double agent brainstorm. No extra factors have to be added. Also whirl isn't as tough as he pretends following the revelation that Megs made sure he wasn't killed to thank him for the next experience he gave Megs.

ZeroWolf wrote:I took it that the DJD snuck on board to kill overlord. Remember orcams razor (I haven't got that name right at all, have I). Often the simplest solution is the right one. Here the simplest is that the DJD killed the whole crew including the double agent brainstorm. No extra factors have to be added. Also whirl isn't as tough as he pretends following the revelation that Megs made sure he wasn't killed to thank him for the next experience he gave Megs.

If you want to take it at face value that's fine, but the one thing More Than Meets The Eyes has proven is that you don't take everything at face value. BTW, Brainstorm hasn't been proven to be the spy yet, sure the evidence is stacked against him but this strategy has been used multiple times by various authors for misdirection.

Yeah but we're just looking at the massacre but I do understand what your saying but I feel that the massacre was just a backdrop to the real point of learning about brainstorm...and Megatrons conversation with ravage.

We're going to die from anticipation.

Though have we entertained the idea that the dead Brainstorm was a traitor but the live one isn't?

I was just pondering the what ifs of the opportunity to become a traitor presented itself only to the now dead Brainstorm.

ZeroWolf wrote:Yeah but we're just looking at the massacre but I do understand what your saying but I feel that the massacre was just a backdrop to the real point of learning about brainstorm...and Megatrons conversation with ravage.

Yeah you have a good point there. It's just rare you see so many main characters slaughtered on the floor without an exact description of what happened. All I know is the wait for the next issue is killing, I assume the rest of you feel the same way hahaha

ctrlFrequency wrote:We're going to die from anticipation.

Though have we entertained the idea that the dead Brainstorm was a traitor but the live one isn't?

I was just pondering the what ifs of the opportunity to become a traitor presented itself only to the now dead Brainstorm.

This was brought up in the comic. I think it was Nightbeat talking about our Brainstorm when Megatron said, "You do realize this means your brainstorm is also a traitor.". Actually it might have been Ravage but either way it was brought up.

I think you might be on to something though, maybe Brainstorm turned traitor because something that pissed him off happened at Lost Light 1.

Someone posted the picture of Brainstorm talking with Chromedome about not injecting himself after Rewind died. Forgot if it was in this thread or the previous issue's, but either way I still find it hard to believe someone who gave that speech being a traitor. I mean why would you bother consoling someone who is your enemy? Especially when it comes to someone as intelligent as Chromedome, you would rather have them suffering instead of being at their best. Might sound stupid but his speech touched me, it was actually pretty damn deep. If Brainstorm can say that speech and be a traitor then he must be one of the best actors in the Multiverse.

John Stamoist wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Yeah but we're just looking at the massacre but I do understand what your saying but I feel that the massacre was just a backdrop to the real point of learning about brainstorm...and Megatrons conversation with ravage.

Yeah you have a good point there. It's just rare you see so many main characters slaughtered on the floor without an exact description of what happened. All I know is the wait for the next issue is killing, I assume the rest of you feel the same way hahaha

ctrlFrequency wrote:We're going to die from anticipation.

Though have we entertained the idea that the dead Brainstorm was a traitor but the live one isn't?

I was just pondering the what ifs of the opportunity to become a traitor presented itself only to the now dead Brainstorm.

This was brought up in the comic. I think it was Nightbeat talking about our Brainstorm when Megatron said, "You do realize this means your brainstorm is also a traitor.". Actually it might have been Ravage but either way it was brought up.

I think you might be on to something though, maybe Brainstorm turned traitor because something that pissed him off happened at Lost Light 1.

Someone posted the picture of Brainstorm talking with Chromedome about not injecting himself after Rewind died. Forgot if it was in this thread or the previous issue's, but either way I still find it hard to believe someone who gave that speech being a traitor. I mean why would you bother consoling someone who is your enemy? Especially when it comes to someone as intelligent as Chromedome, you would rather have them suffering instead of being at their best. Might sound stupid but his speech touched me, it was actually pretty damn deep. If Brainstorm can say that speech and be a traitor then he must be one of the best actors in the Multiverse.

I'd forgotten about Nightbeat mentioning it.

But yeah, Brainstorm never acted much like a traitor. He had close friendships. Like you say, hard to betray someone you care about.

ctrlFrequency wrote:

John Stamoist wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Yeah but we're just looking at the massacre but I do understand what your saying but I feel that the massacre was just a backdrop to the real point of learning about brainstorm...and Megatrons conversation with ravage.

Yeah you have a good point there. It's just rare you see so many main characters slaughtered on the floor without an exact description of what happened. All I know is the wait for the next issue is killing, I assume the rest of you feel the same way hahaha

ctrlFrequency wrote:We're going to die from anticipation.

Though have we entertained the idea that the dead Brainstorm was a traitor but the live one isn't?

I was just pondering the what ifs of the opportunity to become a traitor presented itself only to the now dead Brainstorm.

This was brought up in the comic. I think it was Nightbeat talking about our Brainstorm when Megatron said, "You do realize this means your brainstorm is also a traitor.". Actually it might have been Ravage but either way it was brought up.

I think you might be on to something though, maybe Brainstorm turned traitor because something that pissed him off happened at Lost Light 1.

Someone posted the picture of Brainstorm talking with Chromedome about not injecting himself after Rewind died. Forgot if it was in this thread or the previous issue's, but either way I still find it hard to believe someone who gave that speech being a traitor. I mean why would you bother consoling someone who is your enemy? Especially when it comes to someone as intelligent as Chromedome, you would rather have them suffering instead of being at their best. Might sound stupid but his speech touched me, it was actually pretty damn deep. If Brainstorm can say that speech and be a traitor then he must be one of the best actors in the Multiverse.

I'd forgotten about Nightbeat mentioning it.

But yeah, Brainstorm never acted much like a traitor. He had close friendships. Like you say, hard to betray someone you care about.

Yup, based off that conversation I could tell Brainstorm really cared about and valued Chromedome as a good friend.

Like sure if he injected himself, Chromedome wouldn't feel any sorrow, but overcoming that sorrow makes you stronger. So I highly doubt Brainstorm said it to make sure Chromedome remembers Rewind and becomes depressed, considering his speech led him out of the depression.

You're forgetting the element of Surprise, and the field of battle.

1) Five Decepticons appear out of nowwhere and force their way onboard. I doubt they "snuck" this is the DJD after all, but obviously they got on somehow.
2) These 5 cons or at a minimum Tarn, were trained by Megs personally. So it's safe to say that they are well versed in combat particularly in a guerilla offense, which works very well when numbers are against you and you are in tight spaces. (That's how the Americans got the RedCoats in the Rev War, chocke them in a narrow road and shoot. Tarn in a hallway is the same thing.)
3)Sure, there's 290 Autobots on the ship, and we don't know who they are, but we know of several. Magnus is a good fighter, Whirl's an Ex-Wrecker, Cyclonus, but then you have ROdimus, who fights well but does so from a distance or on small scale. Red Alert? Doubt he's much of a warrior. Tailgate? HAH! Swerve? Rung? Skids? Sure, he's covered in guns, but he's a sniper, a specialist, not a tank. I am wondering how they got around Trailcutter's forcefield, but that's not a big deal. My point is, the majority of this Lost Light crew are NOT Wreckers material that we've been shown. Quality, not quantity, and there's an actual, real chance that the DJD managed to rip through a ship full of Autobots like confetti.

What if brainstorm was a sleeper agent? And it was Megatrons arrival or a similar situation.

I just look at the DJD as having power creep plot armor for the time being, and we just saw the first chip in that during 34 as Vos and Helex were down for the count, at least temporarily.

They're Brock Lesnar 2014 ver. or Frieza after the Ginyu force is beaten. Eventually, they'll go down in some way and it'll be a big deal, but in the meantime when there are chances to make them look damn near invincible, take those chances to make the big deal a really Big Deal when it finally happens.

ZeroWolf wrote:What if brainstorm was a sleeper agent? And it was Megatrons arrival or a similar situation.

Also a good point. Who knows what they could have done with Shadowplay or even something along the lines of Skids' binary gun.

I just don't think (the more I think about it) that Brainstorm could be an outright traitor. Well, it's always possible, but there's too many possibilities, too many of them lead to something other than traitor.

We have one person's account, who, while credible, just witnessed everyone he cared about brutally massacred. He says traitor, but that might be just perspective (since there's been plenty of misdirection, we can't really take Rewind's words as positive truth, rather perspective from his point of view). Since Rewind doesn't know who tipped the DJD, you would automatically assume he'd consider anyone who purposely or inadvertently (in the case of sleeper agent or accident) uncloaked Overlord a traitor.
And that's why I dislike anyone automatically pronouncing Brainstorm a traitor. There absolutely no way to know for sure he is. Until they tell us, which I suspect is a long way down the road.

Of course this all ties in to the message Cybertron received after the Lost Light 'blew up'.

As for the DJD, my theory is they were able to overcome the numbers by skill and the Lost Light crew being unprepared and unorganized. No matter how skilled your individual warriors may be, the DJD were ready, the Lost Light crew weren't.

Thanks for getting what I was saying even when I worded it badly note to self: posting in a rush is bad.

I was thinking about this earlier. Brainstorm being a sleeper agent is very probable in this situation. For one thing look at where the decpticon badge was. He couldn't see it so why was it there unless it was there to prove a point by whoever got to him. There's also what Megatron implied, saying that nightbeat would of been more likely to be asked to betray the Autobots not brainstorm. Though that is ironic as nightbeat was a sleeper agent for the dead universe dwellers. There's also his very abrupt change of attitude last issue in the bar.

Now this could still be a fake out of some sort. There may of been clues to this from way back that we missed. But with a potentially evil/brainwashed brainstorm in the past I can't help but feel that maybe Roberts is going to make elegant chaos a love letter to Time Wars from the UK marvel run.

Though that's probably as far fetched as my brainstorm is a sleeper agent theory.

Aww, it wasn't worded badly, it was very clear

I think this thing with Brainstorm comes all the way back to the Dead Universe somehow. Brainstorm saying "I can do whatever the hell I want" at then end doesn't sound like Brainstorm, in fact it sounds like Nova Prime!

And Brainstorm got zapped from a Nova Prime corpse before the Lost Light took off, and was "rendered undead." And Optimus and crew popped out of Brainstorm directly from the Dead Universe. So I swear, something's going on there.

ctrlFrequency wrote:Aww, it wasn't worded badly, it was very clear

Thanks

DarkEnergon@ I don't think it'll be the dead universe again, not so soon after dark Cybertron.

ctrlFrequency wrote:
Of course this all ties in to the message Cybertron received after the Lost Light 'blew up'.

What message are you referring to?

John Stamoist wrote:

ctrlFrequency wrote:
Of course this all ties in to the message Cybertron received after the Lost Light 'blew up'.

What message are you referring to?

I think I remembered wrong, it may not have been Cybertron but the Lost Light that got the message.
The message from the future... The one where they say not to open the coffin and don't let them take Skids and a couple of other things (can't remember offhand but it was in MtMtE #1).
I think I may have to go back and look that up because my memory is failing me big time lately!