IDW Art Du Jour! Update: Transformers: Beast Wars Sourcebook #1

Apache!

The pages still look a bit bland, but I guess that lets you focus on the figures and bio and all that Jazz!

I am so looking forward to these books.

So, will Apache be appearing alongside B'Boom anywhere? Because that might prove a bit awkward, since they look exactly the same, color and all.

Sentinel Pax wrote:So, will Apache be appearing alongside B'Boom anywhere? Because that might prove a bit awkward, since they look exactly the same, color and all.

He will only be a few pages away, unless these books are not going to be done in Alphabetical order...

i_amtrunks wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:So, will Apache be appearing alongside B'Boom anywhere? Because that might prove a bit awkward, since they look exactly the same, color and all.

He will only be a few pages away, unless these books are not going to be done in Alphabetical order...

Well, I figured that, but I meant more along the lines of The Ascending. I mean, The Pack is/are going to show up, right? Either way, I love the design for B'Boom/Apache. One of my favorite toys as a kid.

Hurry up and publish these things already! I've been waiting my for Beast Wars profile books ever since those now-legendary Dreamwave MTMTE series came out!

Gimme gimme gimme!!!

There's never enough Beast Wars stuff...

Cyber-Kun wrote:There's never enough Beast Wars stuff...

right on

Skowl wrote:Hurry up and publish these things already!

OK, so I know now who to add to the "Fricassee" list if these things end up late again...

hmm interesting. i wonder if they'll go for the Apache name or the B'boom name for one character, or will they be different characters altogether?

the Apache name might be used since in interviews the writer & producers of the Ascending comic have expressed their decision to use the Japanese names for the Maximals in the new comic. hmm...

They seems to have both B'Boom and Apache as different characters, despite them being identical toys. I like it.

I will buy these, and then they can publish MTMTE books for Energon, G2, Rid, and Cybertron. I'd buy them all.

Scaleface wrote:They seems to have both B'Boom and Apache as different characters, despite them being identical toys. I like it.

I don't.

Well like it or not, they are two separate characters. I personally was hoping for maybe a bit more artistic license to differentiate the two characters, but unlike G1 toys, which were basic enough looking to get an extra character or two out of the same mold, Beast Wars figures were detailed enough to make it a bit harder They got a couple of good ones out there, but without a color change it is a bit tougher to accept.

But still, two different characters so hopefully we'll see how they're handled. It doesn't really bother me.

Maybe the protoform-formatting computer only has a limited number ideas, and after a while it starts to repeat itself.

Scaleface wrote:I will buy these, and then they can publish MTMTE books for Energon, G2, Rid, and Cybertron. I'd buy them all.

Ditto, these books are a real treat for the fandom

Darth Bombshell wrote:

Scaleface wrote:They seems to have both B'Boom and Apache as different characters, despite them being identical toys. I like it.

I don't.

i don't think there's anything wrong with this with good writing skills this shouldn't be a problem. they'll probably kill one off anyway

It would have been nice if they added his third form.

Also I like that they used "Apache" instead of "B-Boom" I always hated that name.

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Not that it matters but I figure share, in my collective, this figure is Primal's older brother who helped train the Maximal's who became Lio, Big, and Beast Convoy

Galmorzu wrote:Well like it or not, they are two separate characters. I personally was hoping for maybe a bit more artistic license to differentiate the two characters, but unlike G1 toys, which were basic enough looking to get an extra character or two out of the same mold, Beast Wars figures were detailed enough to make it a bit harder They got a couple of good ones out there, but without a color change it is a bit tougher to accept.

But still, two different characters so hopefully we'll see how they're handled. It doesn't really bother me.

See Hasbro, this is what when happens when repaints and generic rip offs, because your to lazy to do even that much, bite you on the ass!

Liege Evilmus wrote:

Galmorzu wrote:Well like it or not, they are two separate characters. I personally was hoping for maybe a bit more artistic license to differentiate the two characters, but unlike G1 toys, which were basic enough looking to get an extra character or two out of the same mold, Beast Wars figures were detailed enough to make it a bit harder They got a couple of good ones out there, but without a color change it is a bit tougher to accept.

But still, two different characters so hopefully we'll see how they're handled. It doesn't really bother me.

See Hasbro, this is what when happens when repaints and generic rip offs, because your to lazy to do even that much, bite you on the ass!

I think it's more that Hasbro and Takara depicted them as different characters, so when IDW made up bios, they made one for each.

Scaleface wrote:I think it's more that Hasbro and Takara depicted them as different characters, so when IDW made up bios, they made one for each.

It's still a fancy way of saying we're going to be wasting pages.

Darth Bombshell wrote:

Scaleface wrote:I think it's more that Hasbro and Takara depicted them as different characters, so when IDW made up bios, they made one for each.

It's still a fancy way of saying we're going to be wasting pages.

Two separate characters deserve two separate pages.

Unless Apache and BBoom have pretty much the same personalities, then it's a waste.

i_amtrunks wrote:Two separate characters deserve two separate pages.

Except they're not. They may be seperate from a certain point of view, but they're also the same character from a different one.

Darth Bombshell wrote:

i_amtrunks wrote:Two separate characters deserve two separate pages.

Except they're not. They may be seperate from a certain point of view, but they're also the same character from a different one.

That confused me for a minute!

Im hoping that the Japanese versions of characters will focus on what they were like in the Japanese series, and let the American versions of the characters stay true to the tech-specs/bio's.

Not try to play them off as the same character in different universe's or something.

i_amtrunks wrote:Not try to play them off as the same character in different universe's or something.

But that's exactly what they are...at least from the perspective of real life. In the fictional sense, sure, you can make up any cockamaime reason to imply that they're different people, but when you get right down to it, the Maximal cast of Beast Wars II, more or less, were straight repaints/redecos/refactionated versions of the majority of 1996 toys that weren't in the show.

There must have been a reason why Takara wanted it that way, and Simon and Ben must have seen the logical problem that would arise when they decided to make "The Gathering" about the non show characters when they decided to do the profile books and add the BW II/Neo characters.

Both Simon Furman and Ben Yee have confirmed that every separate character, from the American line, Japanese line, and all their exclusive and convention special recolors, will have their own entries. So characters with the same molds, and even the same color schemes, will have entires based on their distinct backgrounds and personalities. B'boom and Apache may look identical, but they ARE two different characters that exist in the same universe. Like Bumblebee and Cliffjumper only without the change in colors. And Furman and Yee have said that they spent a lot of time building the entire BW universe before working on these bios so that once you see them all, you can really start to put some interesting background together.

Galmorzu wrote:And Furman and Yee have said that they spent a lot of time building the entire BW universe before working on these bios so that once you see them all, you can really start to put some interesting background together.

I thought that Bob and Larry already did that back in 1996. Even so, I really have to wonder if, when "building the entire BW universe", they gave any thought to what has happened before to these characters. Then again, it might not matter. I mean, whose going to know who Lio Convoy, Megastorm of the Seacon Space Pirates are?

Oh, wait. That's part of the problem.

Not to mention that it also opens Furman up to do a lot more of his "Oh, this character has the same name as a G1 character, so let's make him the G1 character" schtick that he seems to love. God only knows the last thing that needs to happen is a sudden retcon making BW II Galvatron G1 Galvatron or BW II Starscream G1 Starscream of BW II Skywarp G1 Skywarp or have Megastorm's appearance somehow related to G1 Megatron or any number of fankwank claptrap that's likely to spring up as a result of this...

I think they deserve seperate bios. After all, Powermaster Getaway and Godmaster Lightfoot are the exact same toy, but different characters. I wouldn't expect a single bio for them.

I'm still curious what they did with characters like the US Magnaboss and the Japanese one.

Scaleface wrote:I think they deserve seperate bios. After all, Powermaster Getaway and Godmaster Lightfoot are the exact same toy, but different characters. I wouldn't expect a single bio for them.

I guess that makes sense.

Scaleface wrote:I'm still curious what they did with characters like the US Magnaboss and the Japanese one.

We already know what they're doing to the US Magnaboss: Furman's whipping out the whole "Oh, this character has the same name as a G1 character, so let's make him the G1 character" angle despite absolutely zero evidence to prove that true, making me wonder how far he's going to go on that.

US Magnaboss' only appearance in any fiction is as the leader of the Maximal High Council in the Transformers: Universe comic. He could be leader because he's actually Prowl, Ironhide and Silverbolt, three leaders among the Autobots.

It is odd though, because I thought that the Transmetal 2 Prowl was G1 Prowl. Maybe he's just insane and think's he's G1 Prowl?

Also, there are some cases where they are not connecting the G1 to the Beast Wars character with the same name. At least I hope Beast Wars Inferno isn't G1 Inferno, or Beast Wars Bonecrusher isn't G1 Bonecrusher.

Scaleface wrote:US Magnaboss' only appearance in any fiction is as the leader of the Maximal High Council in the Transformers: Universe comic. He could be leader because he's actually Prowl, Ironhide and Silverbolt, three leaders among the Autobots.

And that matters how? It would appear that "The Gathering" and "The Ascending" aren't connected to any other fiction, which would make any prior appearance of the characters meaningless.

Which brings up another problem. If you-know-who (saying for the benefit of those who are unspoiled as to certain events in "The Ascending") is in it, does that mean that Furman is ignoring his own work on "Reaching the Omega Point?"

Scaleface wrote:Also, there are some cases where they are not connecting the G1 to the Beast Wars character with the same name.

But only two of those appeared in "The Gathering", and even they recieved very little in the way of bio info, so it'll be easy for Furman to connect the dots as he sees fit. As for the rest...well, only time will tell.

as someone said before Inferno isn't the same character nor were Rampage and Silverbolt.

So i have my fingers crossed about the US Magnaboss not being the same characters as there G1 counterparts. I hope there more like namesakes such as the BW Megatron.

Coptur wrote:So i have my fingers crossed about the US Magnaboss not being the same characters as there G1 counterparts.

But they are. Furman said so himself.

So?

Nothing in Magnaboss' bio contradicted them being G1 counterparts, and it's not like every G1 named character is the G1 version, just some. And I like that (in some cases). I think it ties the BW universe into the overall G1 mythos more concretely. I remember back when people were wondering why every single G1 character had to suddenly disappear from the universe between G1 and BW. Grimlock's toy bio said he's the G1 version who's still around, why can't there be others?

Granted, the three that make up Magnaboss is a bit weird to be the originals, but I don't see how that couldn't work (aside from the whole dying in the movie part. We'll see how that goes)

So basically Prowl, Silverbolt, Ironhide and Grimlock are their G1 counterparts. Inferno, Hardhead, Deadend, Snarl, Rampage, Scorponok, Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, Starscream, Galvatron, Hydra, Dirge, Thrust, and all the rest recycled G1 names are NOT their G1 counterparts. I don't have a problem with this.

I've got to say I have no problem with some G1 named characters actually being the G1 characters, they can't all have died/disappeared in the 300 year break between the end of G1 and Beast Wars.

Although for characters that died in the G1 movie, I find it hard to have them "back to life" especially since many of them were incinerated in Season 3...

I don't see a problem as the toy line never felt constrained by movie deaths anyways - the movie was just one TF continuity, one with a short-sightedness about killing off fan-favorite characters.

There was Action Master Prowl and Machine Wars Prowl, Go-Bot Ironhide and Power Master Ironhide - all after their "deaths" in the movie. So we continue with their evolution as Beast Wars Maximals.

Galmorzu wrote:Nothing in Magnaboss' bio contradicted them being G1 counterparts

Nothing in the bio said they were their G1 counterparts, though. And that's what my problem is.

Scaleface wrote:Inferno, Hardhead, Deadend, Snarl, Rampage, Scorponok, Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, Starscream, Galvatron, Hydra, Dirge, Thrust, and all the rest recycled G1 names are NOT their G1 counterparts.

But for half of those, we don't know that for sure, do we?

Nothing in G1 Rodimus Prime's original packaging bio said he was an evolved form of Hot Rod either. Same goes for G1 Galvatron with him being Megatron.

If a packaging bio doesn't confirm something one way or the other then i don't mind that Furman is filling in the gaps using his own imagination.



And its cool that the likes of Apache and B'Boom are seperate characters. Lets hope Seibertron acknowledges this in their database thing.

Bass X0 wrote:Nothing in G1 Rodimus Prime's original packaging bio said he was an evolved form of Hot Rod either. Same goes for G1 Galvatron with him being Megatron.

That was done in order to avoid spoiling the movie.

Darth Bombshell wrote:Nothing in the bio said they were their G1 counterparts, though. And that's what my problem is.?

Why? I can understand if carrying over existing G1 characters isn't your thing, but my point is that if it's left open to go either way with, why not occasionally carry them over into the BW age. We know for sure at least Grimlock has stuck around all these years, although I agree a better explanation for why he was there and why he was never recovered is annoying. I'm still hoping he was kept around to manhandle X when the time for drop-off came around.

But as for the others, I just don't see what the big deal is.

Darth Bombshell wrote:But for half of those, we don't know that for sure, do we?

Again, I'm lost as to why it's that big a deal. I'm thinkin' you just really dislike Furman so much you'll take any reason to be upset with his choices.

I just think that with so many reused names (as everyone knows, they need to be used often in order to keep the rights to use them later on. Remember Soundwave?), sometimes it helps to actually allow them to be the originals. Other times, not so much. Aside from Grimlock, I would find it harder to believe there being really any other classic G1 bots sitting around on the Axalon, so any such instances would need to come from off-world, ie Magnaboss.

Galmorzu wrote:But as for the others, I just don't see what the big deal is.

It's really sad that you don't. Anyone who knows about Beast Wars knows that, initially, with the exception of Grimlock, Hasbro and the show went out of their way to portray the characters with the same names as G1 characters as seperate, so it's sad to see Furman go out of his way to disregard that because he's such a G1 hardore person.

Darth Bombshell wrote:Again, I'm lost as to why it's that big a deal. I'm thinkin' you just really dislike Furman so much you'll take any reason to be upset with his choices.

I don't dislike Furman as a person. I don't even dislike his as a creative talent (though he has tested my patience in his DW stuff). I just dislike some of the choices he makes when it comes to things like this. Just because you can do a thing, you shouldn't necessarily do that thing.

I don't see a problem with the US Magnaboss guys being former Autobots. Since they lacked US tech spec and fictional appearances all together, they had to do something. There choiced were:

1. Make thme the Japanese redecos of the toys.

2. Make up completely new characters from thin air.

3. They are the G1/G2/Machine Wars continued into Beast Wars. Since the tech specs themselves did this with Grimlock and the TV show did with Ravage, there was presidence for keeping around old Autobots and Decepticons in new bodies.

If you don't like option three, which option would you have used?

Scaleface wrote:If you don't like option three, which option would you have used?

Opinion 2, obviously.