How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys
Wednesday, August 1st, 2018 9:54AM CDT
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It is a growing concern for fans that more and more retail space is being given to Transformers toys aimed at younger audiences, with simplified or instant transformations instead of more complex puzzles, and plagued with gimmicks. While Transformers toys for young kids have been around since the beginning - they are toys after all - the option of a line of figures aimed at a younger audience sold alongside more complex toylines has been around since the first live action Transformers film (2007), with the Gravity Bots and Fast Action Battlers. And it has decidedly grown since.
There is, however, one big part we tend to forget: this distinction in age groups started happening because Transformers toys grew more complex and less gimmicky. In G1, the kiddie line was all we had. There weren’t more advanced toys. It's not like you could pick between a jumpstarter Top Spin and a Deluxe Top Spin back in the 80s - Jumpstarter Top Spin was all you had.
We are also very quick to forget that when we see toys that are today’s equivalent of Jumpstarter Top Spin (e.g. Turbo changers and One Step toys) on the shelves.
Now the status quo is changing once more, with both the Bumblebee Movie line and the Cyberverse cartoon line being made up solely of gimmick driven toys. At this point, I thought of looking at other action figure toylines available at retail and compare, principally the DC and Marvel figures, and Star Wars toys (the last two being a perfect comparison since they are made by the same company as Transformers).
And yeah, as the title suggests, we Transformers collectors are waaaaaaaaay better off than anyone collecting DC, Mavel or Star Wars figures.
A picture is worth a thousand words so let's just check out some pics from my latest visit to Walmart and Toys R Us (sorry, American readers, I don’t mean to open up recent wounds).
We have Marvel
Notice how the main attraction for parents, kids and anyone wanting a Marvel toy here is limited to either tall PVC toys with limited articulation or smaller toys based on gimmicks. The Marvel Legends line, which encompasses figures aimed at older kids and fans of the movies and comics all mixed together, are sparsely stocked, if at all. The only toys exclusively for Infinity war are only made for younger kids. Collectors have to instead try to find more articulated toys of characters from the film within a wave that has movie characters and other totally unrelated characters from the comics. And if you want to get a decent figure of the main villain in the film (Thanos), you are stuck having to buy all the figures in the wave, even the non movie ones, since this villain has his parts split amongst all these figures. Can't find a figure? too bad, not only do you not get that specific toy but your buildable figure is also missing a limb. NICE!
We have DC
Basically the same as Marvel. Sure, we have some more collector oriented toys, but it is mainly bigger and simpler products, aimed at younger kids. Right now, as with Marvel, toys featuring the characters from the movies, toys or games are not in lines of their own but lumped together. And if you want better articulated figures of the Justice League Action show, well, too bad!
Now Star Wars
Ok, this is a little different. While like DC and Marvel there is only one line for collectors, which also mixes in characters from across the franchise, the simpler toys do have a retro feel which can attract collectors as well. Basically, it’s as if alongside Transformers deluxes and voyagers, we literally had a G1 Topspin reissue somewhere on the shelf. Not just him, but other characters from recent films. Which is basically what we already have with the One Steps, but imagine all the One Steps had the same packaging as G1 Top Spin. That is basically what is going on with Star Wars. One difference though: these smaller simpler Star Wars figures overwhelm the shelf space, and most other toys are all aimed at younger audiences too, like the vehicles, playsets and role play weapons.
Now let’s look at Transformers
There are definitely toys for younger audiences, there is no denying that and it is what this article started from. But unlike every other toyline covered here, these simpler toys are not the majority of product being sold. They are just a subset - there are far more toys that are complex and made up of more than 5 steps, for adult fans and older kids alike. And we have more than just one line of those too. We have movie toys in their own line (Studio Series) and other toys looking at the history of the brand in another. Plus remnants of a previous cartoon line which also had some standard complex toys for collectors to enjoy (Robots in Disguise).
That last part is of course changing, with Cyberverse not having options for older kids, but that just means Hasbro is doing with Transformers what it has done with Marvel and Star Wars long ago (in a galaxy far ... ok I 'll stop). So to reiterate, toys targeting younger kids are usually the norm, and have been the norm since, well... toys are for kids. Yet, in the Transformers brand, we get lines dedicated to more mature kids and appealing to adult collectors, and those toys tend to take up a lot more shelf space compared to similarly marketed toys in other franchises.
So yeah, we Transformers fans have it a lot better than the rest when it comes to our options of more collector oriented toys.
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Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975821)
Posted by Randomhero on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:09am CDT
Posted by Randomhero on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:09am CDT
Bob Budiansky has a wonderful quote about fans not liking his transformers comics and I feel it can be extended toward the toys to:
“If there are older Transformers fans who feel my stories were too geared to children—hey, good insight! That was the audience I was playing to”
I’m a 33 guy who works his butt off to pay the bills but I also collect transformers and I’m fully aware the first and most important audience is kids because we were kids once and we were introduced to a cartoon that more than a than should had really bad animation and toys that were literal bricks and we had to use our imagination to give them elbows and knees.
The toys that are made today are damn good in my opinion
“If there are older Transformers fans who feel my stories were too geared to children—hey, good insight! That was the audience I was playing to”
I’m a 33 guy who works his butt off to pay the bills but I also collect transformers and I’m fully aware the first and most important audience is kids because we were kids once and we were introduced to a cartoon that more than a than should had really bad animation and toys that were literal bricks and we had to use our imagination to give them elbows and knees.
The toys that are made today are damn good in my opinion
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975823)
Posted by notsoalex on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:11am CDT
Posted by notsoalex on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:11am CDT
This really makes you appreciate what you have.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975828)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:33am CDT
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:33am CDT
A very good article will 
this helps show that we have got it a lot better than some think but I've got a feeling they'll find something to complain about still 
I do like it when articles like this come along
this helps show that we have got it a lot better than some think but I've got a feeling they'll find something to complain about still I do like it when articles like this come along
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975833)
Posted by william-james88 on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:55am CDT
That's very kind of you, thank you so much! I just kept reading the same post after post across different boards online and wanted to put things in perspective.
Posted by william-james88 on August 1st, 2018 @ 10:55am CDT
ZeroWolf wrote:A very good article will
I do like it when articles like this come along
That's very kind of you, thank you so much! I just kept reading the same post after post across different boards online and wanted to put things in perspective.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975834)
Posted by Rysquad on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:00am CDT
Posted by Rysquad on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:00am CDT
Go even younger and it's pretty similar: Transformers, Marvel, and Star Wars with Playskool and DC with Imaginext.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975837)
Posted by hinomars19 on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:18am CDT
Posted by hinomars19 on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:18am CDT
We are lucky in the lengths Hasbro has gone to both acknowledge and cater to the distinction, but sadly it is let down by distribution/what stores are willing to stock. My Tesco for example, has made a conscious decision to ONLY carry the super kiddy and gimmick stuff. Generations is dead to them, and they have stopped stocking even RiD warriors for a very long time.
I'm still of the opinion, the Masterpiece line aside, that the distinction doesn't need such a big line drawn. UT toys are the bastion of TF toys! Animation accurate, chunky, fun gimmicks, easy (but good looking) transformations, and, just with a few Armada toys as the exception, good articulation...how does that not please both?
For me, G1 toys LOOKED and FELT good. They had chrome, stickers, clear plastic, had accesories etc. They felt worth something and were fun to play with. I feel that hasn't followed throughout the years. Today's one steps and the like are awful. Not because they are simple and provide quick kid value, because they just....
The designs of simple movie and RiD toys don't look nice to me either. And that's because the designs of the TFs themselves are less than appealing. Let's get Animated on the phone, and ask how it managed to create a cartoon aesthetic that was made to sell good toys. There is no shame in designing these things with toy and animation processes in mind. I feel they (hasbro, and even fan expectation) have lost that, more than anything. Now Cyberverse, I think, is getting there. The warriors look like nice toys. Sadly, the pricing is disgraceful 
Just to note; RiD warrior Bumblebee was something I considered more than once, but just kept putting him back on the shelf because he just looked cumbersome with car part backpacks and silly fake bits on his bot mode. He seems more complex than a CW Arielbot, but he appeals to me far, far less. Because the CW toys achieve so much more with far less bits and pieces. And are chunkier And have a fun gimmick and have fun accessories
BTW, I'm 37
I'm still of the opinion, the Masterpiece line aside, that the distinction doesn't need such a big line drawn. UT toys are the bastion of TF toys! Animation accurate, chunky, fun gimmicks, easy (but good looking) transformations, and, just with a few Armada toys as the exception, good articulation...how does that not please both?
For me, G1 toys LOOKED and FELT good. They had chrome, stickers, clear plastic, had accesories etc. They felt worth something and were fun to play with. I feel that hasn't followed throughout the years. Today's one steps and the like are awful. Not because they are simple and provide quick kid value, because they just....
The designs of simple movie and RiD toys don't look nice to me either. And that's because the designs of the TFs themselves are less than appealing. Let's get Animated on the phone, and ask how it managed to create a cartoon aesthetic that was made to sell good toys. There is no shame in designing these things with toy and animation processes in mind. I feel they (hasbro, and even fan expectation) have lost that, more than anything. Now Cyberverse, I think, is getting there. The warriors look like nice toys. Sadly, the pricing is disgraceful Just to note; RiD warrior Bumblebee was something I considered more than once, but just kept putting him back on the shelf because he just looked cumbersome with car part backpacks and silly fake bits on his bot mode. He seems more complex than a CW Arielbot, but he appeals to me far, far less. Because the CW toys achieve so much more with far less bits and pieces. And are chunkier
And have a fun gimmick and have fun accessories BTW, I'm 37
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975838)
Posted by DecepticonFinishline on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:36am CDT
Posted by DecepticonFinishline on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:36am CDT
Thank you for the insight. I needed that. It's easy to get frustrated, but as a one-trick pony of collecting, I hadn't considered how it is for everyone else.
So, sincerely, thank you for forcing me to be more considerate of our fellow fandoms.
So, sincerely, thank you for forcing me to be more considerate of our fellow fandoms.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975842)
Posted by paul053 on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:48am CDT
Posted by paul053 on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:48am CDT
I have to agree with you, but this applies "ONLY" if I can see anything from the stores.
Pretty much in all the retail stores (Target, Walmart, TRUs don't exist now) around where I live or even other states I visited, the TF aisle and selections are close to nothing. The pictures you showed are just unrealistic to me. 
But yes, nice article.
Pretty much in all the retail stores (Target, Walmart, TRUs don't exist now) around where I live or even other states I visited, the TF aisle and selections are close to nothing. The pictures you showed are just unrealistic to me.
But yes, nice article.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975843)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:53am CDT
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:53am CDT
One key thing to remember is that g1 was the start of this all and the world was more or less a different place then it is now. Production costs are up and businesses want less risks and a bigger profit margin to make investors happy. Having lines split like this makes it easy to see what is selling and what isn't, allowing them to redefine the next line.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975852)
Posted by hausjam on August 1st, 2018 @ 12:35pm CDT
Posted by hausjam on August 1st, 2018 @ 12:35pm CDT
Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive. Today's licensed toys feel like yesterday's knock offs. While today's knockoffs tend to exceed today's licensed toys in quality. Granted they have an unfair pricing advantage. But it's still pretty sad.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975857)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 1:04pm CDT
Which one looks more expensive? Easily the potp one as it does more and looks more. Most kids will pick the newer toys (tested with my eldest, he preferred my newer stuff over the G1)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 1:04pm CDT
hausjam wrote:Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive. Today's licensed toys feel like yesterday's knock offs. While today's knockoffs tend to exceed today's licensed toys in quality. Granted they have an unfair pricing advantage. But it's still pretty sad.
Which one looks more expensive? Easily the potp one as it does more and looks more. Most kids will pick the newer toys (tested with my eldest, he preferred my newer stuff over the G1)
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975862)
Posted by SG Roadbuster on August 1st, 2018 @ 1:18pm CDT
Posted by SG Roadbuster on August 1st, 2018 @ 1:18pm CDT
hey william-james88, can you pick me up one of those rid Heatseeker legions please? dont think i'ver ever seen him round these parts.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975864)
Posted by Flashwave on August 1st, 2018 @ 1:49pm CDT
Posted by Flashwave on August 1st, 2018 @ 1:49pm CDT
Money wise, I am glad I can not worry about Cyberverse, but I am bummed. We are getting at least one or 2 cool Cons, Cons I have wanted to have Toys for since their inception. Yes, I mean Shadow Striker. Vut we aren't getting a cool toy of her. If she had debuted even a year ago we might have gotten her in an RID line and I eoulda been fine, because even the "Kiddy Brand" stuf2f stayed somewhat true to the line. I don't expect Rescue Bots to have full fledged action figures because of being targeted to an extreme age range, but even thpse did sme neat stuff (Quinjet Bee) Likewise, as the next step up, I don't expect to see RID15 toys being as complex or as clean as a Generations or a Movie toy, but even Strong Arm was a good figure for no more than she did.. Blurr was a very tempting figure. Stormshot, Megatronus, I can go on
They were simple without feeling incomplete. These new toy lines feel like Happy Meal McToys, and if thats where we were getting them that would be fine, but its not. And yes, the range of options that qe have in Generations and Studio Series far exceeds what the Marvel Legends and DC Multiverse lines offer (although its worth noting that a majority of those characters are all between 4 and 8 feet tall ) but I don't think that makes it unfaor to call Hasbro out on taking 2 steps backward on their toyline when its immediate predacessor and the same Design team are doing so.
Blindfold test? POTP Hands Down, every time. I would not expect to pay as much for a new toy of G1 Prime Complexity as I do for a new Leader Class.
But to answer your question as you state it: Knowing that G1 Prime is a treasured Collector Piece, long out of Production, and of high demand, I.would expect to pay more for it than POTP, but that's owing to market ranges and not actually anything to do with Tpys
They were simple without feeling incomplete. These new toy lines feel like Happy Meal McToys, and if thats where we were getting them that would be fine, but its not. And yes, the range of options that qe have in Generations and Studio Series far exceeds what the Marvel Legends and DC Multiverse lines offer (although its worth noting that a majority of those characters are all between 4 and 8 feet tall
) but I don't think that makes it unfaor to call Hasbro out on taking 2 steps backward on their toyline when its immediate predacessor and the same Design team are doing so. hausjam wrote:Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive. Today's licensed toys feel like yesterday's knock offs. While today's knockoffs tend to exceed today's licensed toys in quality. Granted they have an unfair pricing advantage. But it's still pretty sad.
Blindfold test? POTP Hands Down, every time. I would not expect to pay as much for a new toy of G1 Prime Complexity as I do for a new Leader Class.
But to answer your question as you state it: Knowing that G1 Prime is a treasured Collector Piece, long out of Production, and of high demand, I.would expect to pay more for it than POTP, but that's owing to market ranges and not actually anything to do with Tpys
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975868)
Posted by william-james88 on August 1st, 2018 @ 2:02pm CDT
Sure, he and cyclonus never reached the US (the wave was skipped). But for your info, it wouldnt be cheap, even if you only pay the cost.
They are $8.99 each plus shipping would be $10 (minimum for packaged from Can to US, it seems) and I am taxed 15%. So in the end, this toy would cost you around $22 CAN, which is around $17 USD. If you are still interested, send me a PM and we can work out the details.
Posted by william-james88 on August 1st, 2018 @ 2:02pm CDT
SG Roadbuster wrote:hey william-james88, can you pick me up one of those rid Heatseeker legions please? dont think i'ver ever seen him round these parts.
Sure, he and cyclonus never reached the US (the wave was skipped). But for your info, it wouldnt be cheap, even if you only pay the cost.
They are $8.99 each plus shipping would be $10 (minimum for packaged from Can to US, it seems) and I am taxed 15%. So in the end, this toy would cost you around $22 CAN, which is around $17 USD. If you are still interested, send me a PM and we can work out the details.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975872)
Posted by Whirlkick on August 1st, 2018 @ 2:34pm CDT
Posted by Whirlkick on August 1st, 2018 @ 2:34pm CDT
Thanks for this article, an interesting and great read! I'm from the UK and I collect toys from all of those fandoms, and I agree that TF has it best. I can't find Star Wars Black Series figures anywhere except in comic shops, the same with Marvel Legends except with the Thanos wave, and I gave up on DC a while ago. In any case, I'm grateful that I've been allowed to get what I've got, I feel we all take it for granted that we've been allowed to buy these niche goods, some people struggle to eat!
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975880)
Posted by Emerje on August 1st, 2018 @ 3:16pm CDT
Posted by Emerje on August 1st, 2018 @ 3:16pm CDT
Transformers is also the only toy line that Hasbro breaks down into solid demographics to investors with clear lines drawn from age range to age range. You don't see them making fancy graphics like they do for Transformers for any other toy line.
Emerje
Emerje
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975889)
Posted by RK_Striker_JK_5 on August 1st, 2018 @ 3:44pm CDT
Posted by RK_Striker_JK_5 on August 1st, 2018 @ 3:44pm CDT
Great article, Wiliam. Yeah, Transformer fans overall have it pretty damned good.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975893)
Posted by firefox91 on August 1st, 2018 @ 4:22pm CDT
Posted by firefox91 on August 1st, 2018 @ 4:22pm CDT
Absolutely Transformers fans have it better than most! My usual #1 for collecting is GIJoe. When was the last time you saw GIJoe at retail? Or even new product online? That's right, it's completely dead.
Another favorite of mine is Star Wars. What a mess that line has become. Standard figure, Black Series 3.75in, Black Series 6in, rehashed vehicles scaled down that lack detail and paint apps, everything overpriced.
Transformers was usually my #3 to collect, just kind of got them in passing, even as a kid. At this point, they are #1 because I can get new product and that product is usually fantastic. Great updates of classic G1 characters. Close representations of their cartoon appearance. Detailing and engineering that makes your mind spin. And... they are affordable. Sure they have gotten more pricey. But I can still get most figures for under $20 each.
That said, it kind of pains me to see people complain about insignificant things in the line when they could very well have nothing at all.
Another favorite of mine is Star Wars. What a mess that line has become. Standard figure, Black Series 3.75in, Black Series 6in, rehashed vehicles scaled down that lack detail and paint apps, everything overpriced.
Transformers was usually my #3 to collect, just kind of got them in passing, even as a kid. At this point, they are #1 because I can get new product and that product is usually fantastic. Great updates of classic G1 characters. Close representations of their cartoon appearance. Detailing and engineering that makes your mind spin. And... they are affordable. Sure they have gotten more pricey. But I can still get most figures for under $20 each.
That said, it kind of pains me to see people complain about insignificant things in the line when they could very well have nothing at all.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975897)
Posted by o.supreme on August 1st, 2018 @ 4:38pm CDT
Jetfire, Sixshot, Quickswitch, etc...would disagree. Also I'd argue that The original Transformers, while for boys (ages 8-12) was *not* a kiddie line (when I hear kiddie I think Playscool Go-Bots or Rescue Bots ages 3-6. Most of them were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.
I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.
If you add the word "Canadian" between "we" and "Transformers", I'll buy your argument, otherwise, I just cant, based on the geographical area I live in. I will give this one concession however, it is better to be a Transformers fan, than a MOTU fan, if you are looking for reasonably priced collector quality merchandise.
Posted by o.supreme on August 1st, 2018 @ 4:38pm CDT
william-james88 wrote: In G1, the kiddie line was all we had. There weren’t more advanced toys.
Jetfire, Sixshot, Quickswitch, etc...would disagree. Also I'd argue that The original Transformers, while for boys (ages 8-12) was *not* a kiddie line (when I hear kiddie I think Playscool Go-Bots or Rescue Bots ages 3-6. Most of them were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.
william-james88 wrote: And yeah, as the title suggests, we Transformers collectors are waaaaaaaaay better off than anyone collecting DC, Marvel or Star Wars figures. A picture is worth a thousand words so let's just check out some pics from my latest visit to Walmart and Toys R Us (sorry, American readers, I don’t mean to open up recent wounds).
I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.
william-james88 wrote:So yeah, we Transformers fans have it a lot better than the rest when it comes to our options of more collector oriented toys.
If you add the word "Canadian" between "we" and "Transformers", I'll buy your argument, otherwise, I just cant, based on the geographical area I live in. I will give this one concession however, it is better to be a Transformers fan, than a MOTU fan, if you are looking for reasonably priced collector quality merchandise.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975901)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 5:10pm CDT
No offence, but jumpstarters aren't the only simplistic ones...look at the throttlebots for instance, and the micromasters...and even the Pretenders were simplistic in their transformations. All the scramble city toys werent complicated either.
Also you're saying that wills point isnt valid because it seems that his situation is opposite but couldn't that be thrown back at you by saying your situation isn't the norm?
If I got the article, the point isn't what was on the shelves but the range and variety of product we tf fans are getting. All ages are being catered for with tf while in the others, certain age brackets are definitely being favoured.
I respect g1 for being the ignition which started the franchise but that doesn't mean it was the best. Not by a long shot.
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 1st, 2018 @ 5:10pm CDT
o.supreme wrote:william-james88 wrote: In G1, the kiddie line was all we had. There weren’t more advanced toys.
Jetfire, Sixshot, Quickswitch, etc...would disagree. Also I'd argue that The original Transformers, while for boys (ages 8-12) was *not* a kiddie line (when I hear kiddie I think Playscool Go-Bots or Rescue Bots ages 3-6. Most of them were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.william-james88 wrote: And yeah, as the title suggests, we Transformers collectors are waaaaaaaaay better off than anyone collecting DC, Marvel or Star Wars figures. A picture is worth a thousand words so let's just check out some pics from my latest visit to Walmart and Toys R Us (sorry, American readers, I don’t mean to open up recent wounds).
I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.william-james88 wrote:So yeah, we Transformers fans have it a lot better than the rest when it comes to our options of more collector oriented toys.
If you add the word "Canadian" between "we" and "Transformers", I'll buy your argument, otherwise, I just cant, based on the geographical area I live in. I will give this one concession however, it is better to be a Transformers fan, than a MOTU fan, if you are looking for reasonably priced collector quality merchandise.
No offence, but jumpstarters aren't the only simplistic ones...look at the throttlebots for instance, and the micromasters...and even the Pretenders were simplistic in their transformations. All the scramble city toys werent complicated either.
Also you're saying that wills point isnt valid because it seems that his situation is opposite but couldn't that be thrown back at you by saying your situation isn't the norm?
If I got the article, the point isn't what was on the shelves but the range and variety of product we tf fans are getting. All ages are being catered for with tf while in the others, certain age brackets are definitely being favoured.
I respect g1 for being the ignition which started the franchise but that doesn't mean it was the best. Not by a long shot.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975917)
Posted by zko on August 1st, 2018 @ 6:24pm CDT
Posted by zko on August 1st, 2018 @ 6:24pm CDT
This is a decent and valid point, but I must say the photo is from Canadian TRU apparently? Here in southern US we get decent amounts of TFs but apparently ALL the ones I'm still hunting are in Canadian TRU and nowhere else!
From that photo alone, I'm still hunting the following: PotP HunGurr, Elita1, TLK: legion hound, deluxe Cogman (didn't see him in the photo but assume he is probably there), deluxe Crosshairs...
Not to mention other obvious things like RiD 2015 bludgeon I haven't seen yet on store shelves, and things unreleased so far in my area.
Wonder if Marvel/DC/Star Wars has those problems in my area too... I know TNMT does not, they are hugely stocked every place I visit.
Now, I haven't been getting out as much as I used to to go hunt figures at brick and mortar, but I guess I'm still doing well since those are some of the only ones I'm still hunting (without resorting to online orders)
EDIT:
I should have taken a photo to attach of latest shelf status at local walmart, (target is doing abit better but apparently walmart is afraid of certain toys being stocked now that TRU went under)
They had maybe a couple PotP Optimus and Rodimus leaders, on the top in extra space where younger kids can't reach, (maybe 3 total), 1 studio series deluxe bumblebee in same place, on shelf where kids actually can see below the very top on pegs they had, 4 or so of the prime masters that are like 4-5 dollars, 1 deluxe PotP jazz, a few one steppers from RiD 2015.
That might sound like a decent stocking, but in total it was less than 15 to 20 items, and the very most of them were shelf warmers at best. I must say this is a recent problem at walmart since TRU closed they have stocked badly, but still, with it being my main goto place it is starting to be sad.
From that photo alone, I'm still hunting the following: PotP HunGurr, Elita1, TLK: legion hound, deluxe Cogman (didn't see him in the photo but assume he is probably there), deluxe Crosshairs...
Not to mention other obvious things like RiD 2015 bludgeon I haven't seen yet on store shelves, and things unreleased so far in my area.
Wonder if Marvel/DC/Star Wars has those problems in my area too... I know TNMT does not, they are hugely stocked every place I visit.
Now, I haven't been getting out as much as I used to to go hunt figures at brick and mortar, but I guess I'm still doing well since those are some of the only ones I'm still hunting (without resorting to online orders)
EDIT:
I should have taken a photo to attach of latest shelf status at local walmart, (target is doing abit better but apparently walmart is afraid of certain toys being stocked now that TRU went under)
They had maybe a couple PotP Optimus and Rodimus leaders, on the top in extra space where younger kids can't reach, (maybe 3 total), 1 studio series deluxe bumblebee in same place, on shelf where kids actually can see below the very top on pegs they had, 4 or so of the prime masters that are like 4-5 dollars, 1 deluxe PotP jazz, a few one steppers from RiD 2015.
That might sound like a decent stocking, but in total it was less than 15 to 20 items, and the very most of them were shelf warmers at best. I must say this is a recent problem at walmart since TRU closed they have stocked badly, but still, with it being my main goto place it is starting to be sad.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975928)
Posted by MaverickPrime on August 1st, 2018 @ 7:08pm CDT
Posted by MaverickPrime on August 1st, 2018 @ 7:08pm CDT
While what you say is completely true, there is just a liiiittle thing you didn't factor in: international distribution.
These shelves you use as an example, are shelves In the United States and/or Canada, for collectors outside of the US, shelves look just like they do for other franchises, if not WORSE.
Remember the sublime Generations 1.0 line? We only got wave one. Thrilling 30th? We only got deluxes from wave 1, no Leaders or Legends or Voyagers other than Blitzwing and Springer(which I literally saw ONE OF EACH in just one store in my city). We didn't get anthing else because the shelves were still overflowing with DotM simplified stuff. Come AoE, we only got the 2 packs to choose from if we wanted the complex toys! Then, a very limited batch of Slash, Lockdown and Drift hit only one retailer which wasn't in most cities in the country, but of course we got EVERY. SINGLE. SIMPLIFIED TOY, you can still find sparky dinos, actually.
Combiner Wars fared better, we got almost every deluxe, except for the second Autobot non-combiners-turned-combiners wave, but we didn't get several Legends, Thundercracker and a very non-important MOTORMASTER.
RiD 2015 was a mainly child-aimed line, but we can all agree that once it got going, it was an absolute BEAST of a line!...which we got only 3 waves worth of Warriors of, as the simplified stuff was-again-overstocked and is *still* warming shelves.
Titans Return began the serious debacle here, with only waves 1 and 3, no more, no less...and not a single individual Titan Master, and guess what! Economy got screwed nation-wide, so everything was about 50% more expensive. TLK we only got wave one, period. Simplified stuff is clogging every shelf of every retailer right now.
Nowadays, SS wave one is everywhere, still with the price hike, but there, we got lucky for once and we even have Thundercracker, albeit with a premium retailer that raises prices even more. Well, guess which retailer is one of only 2 to actually stock PotP?(missing Legends wave 1 of course, I'm never gonna get Skrapnel). The other retailer is Hamley's, apparently, Pretenders are exclusive to them, cheap even, but there are only 3 or 4 Hamley's IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.
So no, maybe collectors in the US have it golden, but everyone else is pretty screwed. Did I mention that nost countries' Amazon's do NOT sell Repugnus, Blast Off, Nemesis Prime and Punch?
These shelves you use as an example, are shelves In the United States and/or Canada, for collectors outside of the US, shelves look just like they do for other franchises, if not WORSE.
Remember the sublime Generations 1.0 line? We only got wave one. Thrilling 30th? We only got deluxes from wave 1, no Leaders or Legends or Voyagers other than Blitzwing and Springer(which I literally saw ONE OF EACH in just one store in my city). We didn't get anthing else because the shelves were still overflowing with DotM simplified stuff. Come AoE, we only got the 2 packs to choose from if we wanted the complex toys! Then, a very limited batch of Slash, Lockdown and Drift hit only one retailer which wasn't in most cities in the country, but of course we got EVERY. SINGLE. SIMPLIFIED TOY, you can still find sparky dinos, actually.
Combiner Wars fared better, we got almost every deluxe, except for the second Autobot non-combiners-turned-combiners wave, but we didn't get several Legends, Thundercracker and a very non-important MOTORMASTER.
RiD 2015 was a mainly child-aimed line, but we can all agree that once it got going, it was an absolute BEAST of a line!...which we got only 3 waves worth of Warriors of, as the simplified stuff was-again-overstocked and is *still* warming shelves.
Titans Return began the serious debacle here, with only waves 1 and 3, no more, no less...and not a single individual Titan Master, and guess what! Economy got screwed nation-wide, so everything was about 50% more expensive. TLK we only got wave one, period. Simplified stuff is clogging every shelf of every retailer right now.
Nowadays, SS wave one is everywhere, still with the price hike, but there, we got lucky for once and we even have Thundercracker, albeit with a premium retailer that raises prices even more. Well, guess which retailer is one of only 2 to actually stock PotP?(missing Legends wave 1 of course, I'm never gonna get Skrapnel). The other retailer is Hamley's, apparently, Pretenders are exclusive to them, cheap even, but there are only 3 or 4 Hamley's IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.
So no, maybe collectors in the US have it golden, but everyone else is pretty screwed. Did I mention that nost countries' Amazon's do NOT sell Repugnus, Blast Off, Nemesis Prime and Punch?
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975959)
Posted by william-james88 on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:16pm CDT
While talking about distribution woes was inevitable, my point was more to compare the product output meant for mass retail across different franchises and how the target market for Transformers toys seemed to favour collectors moreso than in other franchises. Not that we are the target market specifically, but there are more older kid toys designed than younger kid toys.
I agree and I feel Animated did it very well too. I feel the distinction was more with the movie lines starting in 2007 which was probably due to a hgher complexity inorder to achieve the look of the films where the alt mode kibble wasnt as obvious (unlike UT trilogy or Animated).
G1 is a pretty big line and not all of them have what you are referring to. Plus, people now associate stickers to cheapness.
I agree, my opinion on those toys suffers greatly due to the price. A Gen Legends toy that fully transforms is as expensive as one of their non transforming scouts, shame. And fair warning, those Cybererse warriors are not that great. The only one I found decent was Shockwave and he doesnt even have neck articulation.
Yes, he was more complex, and had a better looking alt mode, but your impression about the limitations due to the backpack are correct, it isnt as obvious to pose BB as the rest of the RId line. I still think he is a good toy and I personally preffer him to the aerialbots. Plus, he has clear plastic
[/quote]
POTP Optimus Prime, easily.
Yeah, I wanted to just handle the proportion of product aimed at different ages per franchise for now, but when bring in price Transformers fans have it way better as well. Thats why I only collect Transformers as well. I feel I get way more for my money. And the reason Marvel and Star Wars is more expensive is just so they can cover the rather high lincencing fee. So the higher price is not related to deco, or quality.
I went with the jumpstarters because they are the closest thing we have to today's one step toys. And in G1, they were in the same line as the other toys, not something seperate. We dont really have something today that would equal a partsforming G1 Starscream. And the G1 toys were simpler and far less articulated to RID 15. RID 15 warriors were more complex than the Combiner Wars deluxes that they shared the pegs with. G1 had its more complex toys, but it was filled to the brim with toys we would see as simplistic today. Optimus Prime is only 5 steps. Anyways, what I wanted to say was more about the comparison of Transformers to other franchises.
Really? If you find this Iron Spider toy on your next trip, please send me a PM (letting me know the price). He came out a few months ago and I have been having the hardest time tracking him down.
The photos were from Toysrus adn Walmart, and the one below with Cogman (who indeed was there) is actually from Walmart:
Your right, I cant order them on Amazon.ca either. But at least we can all order it from Amazon.com (except Australia). Thats what I did.
Posted by william-james88 on August 1st, 2018 @ 11:16pm CDT
hinomars19 wrote:We are lucky in the lengths Hasbro has gone to both acknowledge and cater to the distinction, but sadly it is let down by distribution/what stores are willing to stock. My Tesco for example, has made a conscious decision to ONLY carry the super kiddy and gimmick stuff. Generations is dead to them, and they have stopped stocking even RID warriors for a very long time.
paul053 wrote:Pretty much in all the retail stores (Target, Walmart, TRUs don't exist now) around where I live or even other states I visited, the TF aisle and selections are close to nothing.
MaverickPrime wrote:These shelves you use as an example, are shelves In the United States and/or Canada, for collectors outside of the US, shelves look just like they do for other franchises, if not WORSE.
While talking about distribution woes was inevitable, my point was more to compare the product output meant for mass retail across different franchises and how the target market for Transformers toys seemed to favour collectors moreso than in other franchises. Not that we are the target market specifically, but there are more older kid toys designed than younger kid toys.
UT toys are the bastion of TF toys! Animation accurate, chunky, fun gimmicks, easy (but good looking) transformations, and, just with a few Armada toys as the exception, good articulation...how does that not please both?
I agree and I feel Animated did it very well too. I feel the distinction was more with the movie lines starting in 2007 which was probably due to a hgher complexity inorder to achieve the look of the films where the alt mode kibble wasnt as obvious (unlike UT trilogy or Animated).
For me, G1 toys LOOKED and FELT good. They had chrome, stickers, clear plastic, had accesories etc.
G1 is a pretty big line and not all of them have what you are referring to. Plus, people now associate stickers to cheapness.
Now Cyberverse, I think, is getting there. The warriors look like nice toys. Sadly, the pricing is disgraceful
I agree, my opinion on those toys suffers greatly due to the price. A Gen Legends toy that fully transforms is as expensive as one of their non transforming scouts, shame. And fair warning, those Cybererse warriors are not that great. The only one I found decent was Shockwave and he doesnt even have neck articulation.
He seems more complex than a CW Arielbot, but he appeals to me far, far less.
Yes, he was more complex, and had a better looking alt mode, but your impression about the limitations due to the backpack are correct, it isnt as obvious to pose BB as the rest of the RId line. I still think he is a good toy and I personally preffer him to the aerialbots. Plus, he has clear plastic
[/quote]
hausjam wrote:Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive.
POTP Optimus Prime, easily.
firefox91 wrote:Another favorite of mine is Star Wars. What a mess that line has become. Standard figure, Black Series 3.75in, Black Series 6in, rehashed vehicles scaled down that lack detail and paint apps, everything overpriced.
Transformers was usually my #3 to collect, just kind of got them in passing, even as a kid. At this point, they are #1 because I can get new product and that product is usually fantastic. Great updates of classic G1 characters. Close representations of their cartoon appearance. Detailing and engineering that makes your mind spin. And... they are affordable. Sure they have gotten more pricey. But I can still get most figures for under $20 each.
Yeah, I wanted to just handle the proportion of product aimed at different ages per franchise for now, but when bring in price Transformers fans have it way better as well. Thats why I only collect Transformers as well. I feel I get way more for my money. And the reason Marvel and Star Wars is more expensive is just so they can cover the rather high lincencing fee. So the higher price is not related to deco, or quality.
o.supreme wrote: Most of (G1) were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.
I went with the jumpstarters because they are the closest thing we have to today's one step toys. And in G1, they were in the same line as the other toys, not something seperate. We dont really have something today that would equal a partsforming G1 Starscream. And the G1 toys were simpler and far less articulated to RID 15. RID 15 warriors were more complex than the Combiner Wars deluxes that they shared the pegs with. G1 had its more complex toys, but it was filled to the brim with toys we would see as simplistic today. Optimus Prime is only 5 steps. Anyways, what I wanted to say was more about the comparison of Transformers to other franchises.
I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.
Really? If you find this Iron Spider toy on your next trip, please send me a PM (letting me know the price). He came out a few months ago and I have been having the hardest time tracking him down.
zko wrote:This is a decent and valid point, but I must say the photo is from Canadian TRU apparently?
From that photo alone, I'm still hunting the following: PotP HunGurr, Elita1, TLK: legion hound, deluxe Cogman (didn't see him in the photo but assume he is probably there), deluxe Crosshairs...
The photos were from Toysrus adn Walmart, and the one below with Cogman (who indeed was there) is actually from Walmart:
Did I mention that most countries' Amazon's do NOT sell Repugnus, Blast Off, Nemesis Prime and Punch?
Your right, I cant order them on Amazon.ca either. But at least we can all order it from Amazon.com (except Australia). Thats what I did.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1975971)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 2nd, 2018 @ 1:59am CDT
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 2nd, 2018 @ 1:59am CDT
Well that was a rebuttal and a half will
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976023)
Posted by o.supreme on August 2nd, 2018 @ 10:49am CDT
Sure thing. I'll add it to the list, right behind TR Deluxe Wave 5, and TLK Deluxe Cogman, when I see those at a store near me, I'll let you know as well.
Also, I know this is OT, but [Seinfeld]What's the deal with calling Original Starscream/Seekers parts-formers?[/Seinfeld]
I mean admittedly, its been some time since I had one in hand, but IIRC the only thing "parts" about it was the hands/fists, Sure I know the wings could come off, but you could rotate them (as shown in the TV adds) as opposed to taking them off. I mean if you are going to call Seekers parts-formers, then you might as well call Optimus Prime that, and half the 84/85 Autobot cars since they had removable fists as well. Also it's not like it's a bad thing, I mean the greatest Autobot of all was a parts-former, and I wouldn't mind if he was again (although FT TG has way more transformation, and is way more awesome than I ever thought possible).
Posted by o.supreme on August 2nd, 2018 @ 10:49am CDT
william-james88 wrote:Really? If you find this Iron Spider toy on your next trip, please send me a PM (letting me know the price). He came out a few months ago and I have been having the hardest time tracking him down.
Sure thing. I'll add it to the list, right behind TR Deluxe Wave 5, and TLK Deluxe Cogman, when I see those at a store near me, I'll let you know as well.
Also, I know this is OT, but [Seinfeld]What's the deal with calling Original Starscream/Seekers parts-formers?[/Seinfeld]
I mean admittedly, its been some time since I had one in hand, but IIRC the only thing "parts" about it was the hands/fists, Sure I know the wings could come off, but you could rotate them (as shown in the TV adds) as opposed to taking them off. I mean if you are going to call Seekers parts-formers, then you might as well call Optimus Prime that, and half the 84/85 Autobot cars since they had removable fists as well. Also it's not like it's a bad thing, I mean the greatest Autobot of all was a parts-former, and I wouldn't mind if he was again (although FT TG has way more transformation, and is way more awesome than I ever thought possible).
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976032)
Posted by Rodimus Prime on August 2nd, 2018 @ 12:26pm CDT
Posted by Rodimus Prime on August 2nd, 2018 @ 12:26pm CDT
Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976050)
Posted by TF-fan kev777 on August 2nd, 2018 @ 2:54pm CDT
I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.
What I do agree with is that smart phones and video games have changed the toy landscape. Kids simply stop playing with toys at a younger age now and prefer the electronic devices for their spare time. I believe this has much more to do with the available technology today than any difference in intelligence of the kids.
Posted by TF-fan kev777 on August 2nd, 2018 @ 2:54pm CDT
Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.
I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.
What I do agree with is that smart phones and video games have changed the toy landscape. Kids simply stop playing with toys at a younger age now and prefer the electronic devices for their spare time. I believe this has much more to do with the available technology today than any difference in intelligence of the kids.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976053)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 2nd, 2018 @ 3:00pm CDT
I agree with this, my 3 yr old knows how to fully work a tablet and any electronic device that operates on the same principles, my 5 yr old can fully navigate my TV and set my playstation 4 up on his own...just so he could play lego marvel super heroes..
As much as we try to compare our childhood to today, we just can't, the world is so different and I don't think the genie is going back in the bottle.
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 2nd, 2018 @ 3:00pm CDT
TF-fan kev777 wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.
I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.
What I do agree with is that smart phones and video games have changed the toy landscape. Kids simply stop playing with toys at a younger age now and prefer the electronic devices for their spare time. I believe this has much more to do with the available technology today than any difference in intelligence of the kids.
I agree with this, my 3 yr old knows how to fully work a tablet and any electronic device that operates on the same principles, my 5 yr old can fully navigate my TV and set my playstation 4 up on his own...just so he could play lego marvel super heroes..
As much as we try to compare our childhood to today, we just can't, the world is so different and I don't think the genie is going back in the bottle.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976061)
Posted by Rodimus Prime on August 2nd, 2018 @ 3:36pm CDT
So it's logical to assume that the type of toys they produce the most of is the type that has been selling the most in the previous sales period. And that means is that the reason most toy companies sell simpler figures is because that's what sells best. I can think of only Transformers and Star Wars toys that have a serious built-in adult following. I know some other toys have them, but not to the extent of these 2. Of course, that's just my observation, I could be wrong.
Posted by Rodimus Prime on August 2nd, 2018 @ 3:36pm CDT
Just because the information is available it doesn't automatically make children smarter. It's knowing what to do with the information. And that leads to another fundamental problem with society today, which is faulty parenting. But that's going way off topic. The point I was trying to make is that toy companies produce the style of toys they think will most appeal to their targeted demographic, which they base on sales numbers.TF-fan kev777 wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.
I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.
So it's logical to assume that the type of toys they produce the most of is the type that has been selling the most in the previous sales period. And that means is that the reason most toy companies sell simpler figures is because that's what sells best. I can think of only Transformers and Star Wars toys that have a serious built-in adult following. I know some other toys have them, but not to the extent of these 2. Of course, that's just my observation, I could be wrong.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976135)
Posted by william-james88 on August 2nd, 2018 @ 8:55pm CDT
The intelligence level of children is higher than it was 30 years ago. Thats a proven fact since IQ tests need to keep changing to be more challenging and adapt to a smarter average (and keep it at 100). You can read more about that here: http://www.cracked.com/article_18983_5- ... -b.s..html
The big difference is that 30 years ago, there was no distinction between age groups and most toys were generally simple (there are of course exceptions like Jetfire). Plus, Hasbro wants to keep affordable options to parents, so to do that they need to cut costs on parts and that means less complexity.
We see that a lot with the Marvel and Stars Wars lines. But they arent less complex than they were then.
Mainline Star Wars and Marvel in the 80s
Mainline Star Wars and Marvel today
So kids basically get the same thing they got in the 80s for a relatively similar price point (taking account inflation).
But thats not so bad, it means now there are options for every age group for the brand and kids can join in on the fun early. My 2 year old girl loves the fact that she can transform one step RID sideswipe like a big girl!
And O Supreme, I think its shots like this which give Starscream that connotation:
Along with the instructions telling you to remove and reattach the wings, which does make things easier
Plus even if we ignore the wings, the landing gear is an additional partsforming step.
Posted by william-james88 on August 2nd, 2018 @ 8:55pm CDT
Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.
The intelligence level of children is higher than it was 30 years ago. Thats a proven fact since IQ tests need to keep changing to be more challenging and adapt to a smarter average (and keep it at 100). You can read more about that here: http://www.cracked.com/article_18983_5- ... -b.s..html
The big difference is that 30 years ago, there was no distinction between age groups and most toys were generally simple (there are of course exceptions like Jetfire). Plus, Hasbro wants to keep affordable options to parents, so to do that they need to cut costs on parts and that means less complexity.
We see that a lot with the Marvel and Stars Wars lines. But they arent less complex than they were then.
Mainline Star Wars and Marvel in the 80s
Mainline Star Wars and Marvel today
So kids basically get the same thing they got in the 80s for a relatively similar price point (taking account inflation).
But thats not so bad, it means now there are options for every age group for the brand and kids can join in on the fun early. My 2 year old girl loves the fact that she can transform one step RID sideswipe like a big girl!
And O Supreme, I think its shots like this which give Starscream that connotation:
Along with the instructions telling you to remove and reattach the wings, which does make things easier
Plus even if we ignore the wings, the landing gear is an additional partsforming step.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976172)
Posted by UltraMarginal on August 3rd, 2018 @ 2:04am CDT
Posted by UltraMarginal on August 3rd, 2018 @ 2:04am CDT
I like the article, very interesting thought.
I think the one thing that isn't considered however, is the expectations of the transformers toy line is different to every other toy line. Note, I'm not disagreeing with the article, just that there is even more to consider when saying that transformers fans have it pretty good.
With transformers you expect a vehicle/animal and a robot. two modes. Star Wars, and Comic toy lines are characters that don't change shape, they are figurines first and foremost. even the most articulated mainline action figure has a miniscule parts count next to all but the simplest of transformers. It's very easy to make a screen accurate human toy but to make a screen accurate transformer requires high levels of engineering design and smart implementation of parts count and visual styling.
this is why when you have a lower price point transformer, screen likeness of one mode tends to be sacrificed for the other, suddenly making the toy less 'mature' finished in comparison to a similarly priced action figure from another line.
For their time, G1 toys were immensely complex, even by todays standards their part count was very high. think about an autobot car. Prowl for instance. the implementation of ball joints hadn't developed at that time, so the legs were spread apart using bars to guide and limit movement, to ensure that the reverse transformation was easy (didn't require too much fiddling. The arms appear solid, there are two parts in the upper arm, two parts in the fore arm, even the fists might be two parts that are glued together, the shoulder contains a pin/rivet, the wheel, tyre and the grey part that assembles to the body is probably made up of more than one piece as well, and that's only counting the pieces that can be seen without disassembling the toy. I count 9 pieces per arm at least.
A modern toy, Titans return hardhead for example has a shoulder piece, upper arm, fore arm and fist, they are all designed to be single piece moulded parts reducing assembly and manufacturing cost. 4 pieces in total.
Even though the G1 toy may not appear to be as complex to the end user, there is a lot more design and manufacturing complexity applied to make it fit together as it doesn't tab together in the same manner as modern toys do. The same can be said about a lot of the 'simpler' modern toys.
Take one step RID sideswipe, it's an extremely complex toy. the car opens and spills itself into a robot with one step. it has many parts, several springs and all this is designed so that you can flip the feet and make it transform without much hassle. that's so much more complex than an equivalently priced star wars/DC or otherwise toy. the springs have to have the right stiffness, the parts have to be geared/sequenced so they pass each other from one mode to the other at the right time so it doesn't all jam up. Sure it could use a few more paint apps, I'm not about to argue that. but I think pretty much every toy on shelves should have more paint apps.
It's a lot easier and cheaper to make a figurine that has a good screen representation when it doesn't have to turn into something else, and by that standard, it's a lot easier and cheaper to make a satisfying toy at a lower price in most lines other than transformers.
so in summary, I feel it's the expectation of transformers being so much more than just an action figure that promotes a lot of the 'adult' fandoms disappointment with modern toys. I agree the line has a lot of focus for kids, as it should but as fans of the puzzle toy that is transformers it wouldn't hurt to step back and appreciate the hidden complexity of those kiddy toys. as well as the wonderful collector focussed lines.
I think the one thing that isn't considered however, is the expectations of the transformers toy line is different to every other toy line. Note, I'm not disagreeing with the article, just that there is even more to consider when saying that transformers fans have it pretty good.
With transformers you expect a vehicle/animal and a robot. two modes. Star Wars, and Comic toy lines are characters that don't change shape, they are figurines first and foremost. even the most articulated mainline action figure has a miniscule parts count next to all but the simplest of transformers. It's very easy to make a screen accurate human toy but to make a screen accurate transformer requires high levels of engineering design and smart implementation of parts count and visual styling.
this is why when you have a lower price point transformer, screen likeness of one mode tends to be sacrificed for the other, suddenly making the toy less 'mature' finished in comparison to a similarly priced action figure from another line.
For their time, G1 toys were immensely complex, even by todays standards their part count was very high. think about an autobot car. Prowl for instance. the implementation of ball joints hadn't developed at that time, so the legs were spread apart using bars to guide and limit movement, to ensure that the reverse transformation was easy (didn't require too much fiddling. The arms appear solid, there are two parts in the upper arm, two parts in the fore arm, even the fists might be two parts that are glued together, the shoulder contains a pin/rivet, the wheel, tyre and the grey part that assembles to the body is probably made up of more than one piece as well, and that's only counting the pieces that can be seen without disassembling the toy. I count 9 pieces per arm at least.
A modern toy, Titans return hardhead for example has a shoulder piece, upper arm, fore arm and fist, they are all designed to be single piece moulded parts reducing assembly and manufacturing cost. 4 pieces in total.
Even though the G1 toy may not appear to be as complex to the end user, there is a lot more design and manufacturing complexity applied to make it fit together as it doesn't tab together in the same manner as modern toys do. The same can be said about a lot of the 'simpler' modern toys.
Take one step RID sideswipe, it's an extremely complex toy. the car opens and spills itself into a robot with one step. it has many parts, several springs and all this is designed so that you can flip the feet and make it transform without much hassle. that's so much more complex than an equivalently priced star wars/DC or otherwise toy. the springs have to have the right stiffness, the parts have to be geared/sequenced so they pass each other from one mode to the other at the right time so it doesn't all jam up. Sure it could use a few more paint apps, I'm not about to argue that. but I think pretty much every toy on shelves should have more paint apps.
It's a lot easier and cheaper to make a figurine that has a good screen representation when it doesn't have to turn into something else, and by that standard, it's a lot easier and cheaper to make a satisfying toy at a lower price in most lines other than transformers.
so in summary, I feel it's the expectation of transformers being so much more than just an action figure that promotes a lot of the 'adult' fandoms disappointment with modern toys. I agree the line has a lot of focus for kids, as it should but as fans of the puzzle toy that is transformers it wouldn't hurt to step back and appreciate the hidden complexity of those kiddy toys. as well as the wonderful collector focussed lines.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976316)
Posted by MaverickPrime on August 3rd, 2018 @ 3:13pm CDT
Posted by MaverickPrime on August 3rd, 2018 @ 3:13pm CDT
Actually, Will, Amazon US doesn't always ship to other countries, I know for a fact they don't send the exclusives to Mexico either.
I didn't mention exclusives in my original comment because they are special toys, so it does make a bit more sense for them to be hard to get, that said, I do feel that exclusives are other part of the TF Fandom that is almost…exclusive to the US, as most other countries don't have whatever chains carry them, making internet sellers sell them for an arm and a leg, and that's before even getting into shipping, which is also pretty high AND may not even apply to your country anyway.
I didn't mention exclusives in my original comment because they are special toys, so it does make a bit more sense for them to be hard to get, that said, I do feel that exclusives are other part of the TF Fandom that is almost…exclusive to the US, as most other countries don't have whatever chains carry them, making internet sellers sell them for an arm and a leg, and that's before even getting into shipping, which is also pretty high AND may not even apply to your country anyway.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976546)
Posted by william-james88 on August 4th, 2018 @ 8:23pm CDT
Yes, being in Canada where many of these exclusives dont see the light of day, I can completely understand. But ceterus parabus. The comparison is between the different brands and we can say the same about exclusives for marve.
Will you ever be seeing this exclusive in mexican stores?
Probably not. And you will be stuck paying an arm and a leg for it online if you want it.
Same goes for Star Wars https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?siteid=0&pub=5574891718&campid=5336631220&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fitm%2FToysrus-Exclusi%20...%20m570.l1313%3C%2Fa%3E%3F
So exclusives are all the same across the board and its not like fans of those franchises have it better. The same can be said about people bringing distribution into the argument. Any woes people may have about Transformers not being stocked are the same with Star Wars and Marvel (DC simply has very little product intended for mass retail, concentrating on the direct market instead). And plus, none of those lines get stocked as much as Transformers movie lines when it comes to older kids toys (ie Black series, marvel legends), and Infinity War is bigger than any TF movie ever.
So if you still see TLK shelfwarmers, then you know for a fact that your store stocks more TFs than other franchises.
Anyways, this was my walmart today. It looks barren at first, but then you see Inferno, SS Megatron and Brawl, Tiny Turbo Titans series 3, and of course the wave 3 deluxes (for both POTP and TLK). And the only kiddie figure there is RID Menasor.
Posted by william-james88 on August 4th, 2018 @ 8:23pm CDT
MaverickPrime wrote:Actually, Will, Amazon US doesn't always ship to other countries, I know for a fact they don't send the exclusives to Mexico either.
I didn't mention exclusives in my original comment because they are special toys, so it does make a bit more sense for them to be hard to get, that said, I do feel that exclusives are other part of the TF Fandom that is almost…exclusive to the US, as most other countries don't have whatever chains carry them, making internet sellers sell them for an arm and a leg, and that's before even getting into shipping, which is also pretty high AND may not even apply to your country anyway.
Yes, being in Canada where many of these exclusives dont see the light of day, I can completely understand. But ceterus parabus. The comparison is between the different brands and we can say the same about exclusives for marve.
Will you ever be seeing this exclusive in mexican stores?
Probably not. And you will be stuck paying an arm and a leg for it online if you want it.
Same goes for Star Wars https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?siteid=0&pub=5574891718&campid=5336631220&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fitm%2FToysrus-Exclusi%20...%20m570.l1313%3C%2Fa%3E%3F
So exclusives are all the same across the board and its not like fans of those franchises have it better. The same can be said about people bringing distribution into the argument. Any woes people may have about Transformers not being stocked are the same with Star Wars and Marvel (DC simply has very little product intended for mass retail, concentrating on the direct market instead). And plus, none of those lines get stocked as much as Transformers movie lines when it comes to older kids toys (ie Black series, marvel legends), and Infinity War is bigger than any TF movie ever.
So if you still see TLK shelfwarmers, then you know for a fact that your store stocks more TFs than other franchises.
Anyways, this was my walmart today. It looks barren at first, but then you see Inferno, SS Megatron and Brawl, Tiny Turbo Titans series 3, and of course the wave 3 deluxes (for both POTP and TLK). And the only kiddie figure there is RID Menasor.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976579)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 5th, 2018 @ 2:29am CDT
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 5th, 2018 @ 2:29am CDT
Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976588)
Posted by william-james88 on August 5th, 2018 @ 6:14am CDT
sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.
Posted by william-james88 on August 5th, 2018 @ 6:14am CDT
ZeroWolf wrote:Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you
sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976593)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 5th, 2018 @ 6:44am CDT
*squints*
Ah yeah I see him at the bottom, which makes sense now as you typed Galvatron meaning galvatronus from the same subline.
Though you say bludgeon is as complex but it still feels though that many look down on the warrior line as inferior, which I have learned is anything but.
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 5th, 2018 @ 6:44am CDT
william-james88 wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you
sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.
*squints*
Ah yeah I see him at the bottom, which makes sense now as you typed Galvatron meaning galvatronus from the same subline.
Though you say bludgeon is as complex but it still feels though that many look down on the warrior line as inferior, which I have learned is anything but.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976599)
Posted by fenrir72 on August 5th, 2018 @ 8:45am CDT
Posted by fenrir72 on August 5th, 2018 @ 8:45am CDT
And the noisiest are the oldest of the fandom
Really now! Even Takara is hemorrhaging badly because of the low Japanese birthrate, their primary markets, toddler to pre pubescent are just not enough to support the "Pyramid".
Us manbabies, though willing to pay disposable cash are just not enough. So it ain't surprising Hb is churning out "kiddy" junk(?).
Really now! Even Takara is hemorrhaging badly because of the low Japanese birthrate, their primary markets, toddler to pre pubescent are just not enough to support the "Pyramid".
Us manbabies, though willing to pay disposable cash are just not enough. So it ain't surprising Hb is churning out "kiddy" junk(?).
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976616)
Posted by william-james88 on August 5th, 2018 @ 10:32am CDT
Yeah, thats where i made my mistake. As for the RID warriors, they were the breath of fresh air the fandom had asked for but ultimately chose to ignore. But that's ok, the secondary market prices of some of these toys speak for themselves. I am just glad its not too late for you and others to enjoy and discover these.
Posted by william-james88 on August 5th, 2018 @ 10:32am CDT
ZeroWolf wrote:william-james88 wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you
sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.
*squints*
Ah yeah I see him at the bottom, which makes sense now as you typed Galvatron meaning galvatronus from the same subline.
Though you say bludgeon is as complex but it still feels though that many look down on the warrior line as inferior, which I have learned is anything but.
Yeah, thats where i made my mistake. As for the RID warriors, they were the breath of fresh air the fandom had asked for but ultimately chose to ignore. But that's ok, the secondary market prices of some of these toys speak for themselves. I am just glad its not too late for you and others to enjoy and discover these.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1976655)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 5th, 2018 @ 2:16pm CDT
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 5th, 2018 @ 2:16pm CDT
I'm enjoying the ones I've got so far and I'm looking to get starscream when able.
Re: How Transformers Fans Have it Better than the Rest When it Comes to Younger vs Older Kids Toys (1979215)
Posted by william-james88 on August 18th, 2018 @ 10:37pm CDT
Posted by william-james88 on August 18th, 2018 @ 10:37pm CDT
While distribution woes is a real thing, I think stocking is pretty important too. And in comparing to other toylines, I think Transformers is pretty good. Most of us found our POTP wave 2 deluxes right one way or another right? And if I asked for a Blackwing would one of you have seen him recently? I already have him, but its to illustrate a real example when compring to Marvel Legends because HOLY FUCK is that a hard line to collect.
Has anyone seen this guy recently?
He has been sold out at canadian retail the week he was on shelves, and there was never a restock. I have asked several US friends (from all across the US) to keep a look out for months and he has not shown up. The stock of these marvel legends toys seems ridiculously low. He came out at around the same time as POTP wave 2, hence my earlier comparison and just vanished. Its ridiculous, have any of you seen this guy at retail recently? I currently have him in order at Amazon.ca until he comes back in stock (which might be never) so hopefully that works out.
What sucks major balls is that (another reason why being a Transfomers fan is better), not getting this spider-man makes me miss 2 key figures. Not only do I not have spider-man, but my Thanos ends up missing his leg. Because of all the characters to make a build a figure of, they chose the main antagonist of the film.
Thats like if Studio Series ROTF megatron was split into 5 parts and to get him you have to buy 5 other toys including KSI Sentry, Shadow Raider and a bunch of other toys you may not care to get.
Me venturing out of ransformers collecting will turn out to be a very short moment. Just enough to be able to write these articles letting you guys know how much luckier we are.
Has anyone seen this guy recently?
He has been sold out at canadian retail the week he was on shelves, and there was never a restock. I have asked several US friends (from all across the US) to keep a look out for months and he has not shown up. The stock of these marvel legends toys seems ridiculously low. He came out at around the same time as POTP wave 2, hence my earlier comparison and just vanished. Its ridiculous, have any of you seen this guy at retail recently? I currently have him in order at Amazon.ca until he comes back in stock (which might be never) so hopefully that works out.
What sucks major balls is that (another reason why being a Transfomers fan is better), not getting this spider-man makes me miss 2 key figures. Not only do I not have spider-man, but my Thanos ends up missing his leg. Because of all the characters to make a build a figure of, they chose the main antagonist of the film.
Thats like if Studio Series ROTF megatron was split into 5 parts and to get him you have to buy 5 other toys including KSI Sentry, Shadow Raider and a bunch of other toys you may not care to get.
Me venturing out of ransformers collecting will turn out to be a very short moment. Just enough to be able to write these articles letting you guys know how much luckier we are.
