Hasbro Stands with the Black Community in a Transformers Themed Social Media Post

Optimus Prime wrote:Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

Skritz wrote:Freedom Is The Right Of All Sentient Beings*
*Unless they are the people of Hong Kong or Chinese Muslims and other minorities deemed impure by the CCP, which we all know every major company panders to and take money from
Companies need to stop pretending they have a morality. They are product maker and any attempt at pretending to be good and moral people is utter bullshit in a self congratulatory nonsense.

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

boyatlarge wrote:Kanrabat: "Considering the he current climate, you should refrain calling for help if you're the victim of a crime."

Hey, buddy, my comment is what is known as a joke. Satire. Considering the current climate, you should back the eff off.

ShadowKatt wrote:

High Command wrote:There really has been a lot of bad-faith arguments put forth in this thread by yourself and others but this is really something else. Fighting literal nazis (as opposed to just anyone I disagree with, I believe I was quite clear on that point) makes one just as bad as a nazi and liable to commit genocide?

Likewise your choice to escalate from punching to shooting which is putting words in my mouth. Since you bring up shooting, my stance on the question of guns is to make them all illegal and take them away from members of the public and the cops. Please don't go into a gun ownership debate though, I only mention it to make my own position clear and am reluctant to do so because I fear a likelihood of being lectured how that position somehow makes me want more people to get shot not less.

I am trying to be specific and deliberate in my choice of language here so let me summarise:

Black Lives Matter - this is a positive movement that is asking for changes that have been too long ignored both in the US, UK and elsewhere. Specifically in the US, the issue of black people being killed by cops and those cops facing no consequences. More generally overt and more hidden forms of racism and racial bias need confronting and changing to make a fairer more equal society for all. I find it a very hopeful thing that so many young people of all races are uniting for this. I am certainly not in favour of protecting the status-quo. Some positive changes are starting to happen with charges being made against culpable officers but more can be done too.

Violence - the overwhelming majority of protest has been done peacefully. Where the worst violence has been the cops have also been out in force in full armour. Yes I am implying that the cops have been the instigators of most of the violence. Either directly through attacking protests or indirectly through provocation. As cops, they should have the training to de-escalate things yet we've seen the reverse. When untrained people are attacked their natural instinct may be to run away or to fight back. I think asking the protesters to behave calmer and more professionally than the supposed professionals is a flawed argument.
I don't want anyone to get killed in these protests. People being killed is one of the main reasons for having them remember.

Destruction of property - Lives matter more than property. Property can be replaced, rebuilt etc. The dead can only be mourned. Yes it's a shame if someone's business is burned down, I hope they have insurance that'll pay out. I'm far less concerned when it's something like a statue that gets destroyed, such as the one of a slave trader in my country where the people of the town had been pursuing every legal avenue for decades. Not all statues need to come down obviously but in this case made for a powerful statement that we don't stand for the pain and suffering this man caused.

Counter-protests - far right groups have been having their own protests, such as one notable example in London recently. They say they were to protest violence against the police and defend monuments from being attacked. The police were there, BLM were not. The counter-protestors had a fight with the police instead, showed their respect to the monuments by giving nazi salutes and one man was photographed urinating beside a memorial to a dead policeman killed by a terrorist in 2017. These are pro-racism protests, in response to BLM anti-racism ones. Some sources say that some of the property destruction seen in the US has come from alt-right groups seeking to discredit BLM, that's unsubstantiated but is not wholly implausible.

Coronavirus - this is actually my biggest concern regarding the protests and I really hope it doesn't lead to another spike in infections. TBH I am surprised there hasn't been one already. Once again, my position is that deaths are bad.

Don't worry, I've no intention of getting into the gun debate. It's hardly relevant to the topic at hand. I do, however, have a question for you: Do you play chess? I ask because when I wrote above I was doing my best to speak to the future, and when I read your words they seem couched in the present. Nothing I said was meant as an implication that you yourself would do anything, or go out to start anything, or even be the first one to tip a domino in that direction. The point I was trying to make is that there are enough people out there already who will be more than willing to do that for you if we don't dial the rhetoric way back.

I appreciate the declaration on principles. I feel like we could spend hours in debate over them but this isn't the time or the place. I think the more important part is that while I appreciate your principles, even the ones I don't agree with, not everyone is going to agree with you. The danger I was trying to illustrate comes from there. You advocate for punching Nazis. That's fine, I'll let you have that. You point out that people waving and wearing swastikas and goosestepping while shouting "Seig Heil!" are Nazis. I can't really disagree with that, i think that would be pretty obvious. And while I don't want to make too grand assumptions, I can only assume that if you saw someone like that walking down the street, you'd probably limber up, stretch, and get a good running start before clocking them across the head. As they say, You do you, Boo.

My concern is that not everyone is going to be as restrained as you. You seem to be willing to restrain yourself to people who out themselves as nazis but that's not going to be true of everyone. Lots of things that aren't even related to the nazis and white supremacists have suddenly become associated with them. A haircut. A hand gesture. Or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If there's a protest in response to BLM and one, JUST ONE person brings a Nazi flag, is this a sign that everyone there is a nazi? And does anyone bother to ask questions before things turn ugly. Does getting the wrong haircut justify punching someone without needing evidence or reason? If someone flashes the white power handsign, otherwise known in the rest of the world as the OK gesture, does that confirm their position with the rest of the Nazis?

The point here is that I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about your ideas. They don't solely belong to you; they're shared far and wide amongst many people. I asked earlier if you played Chess because both of these things have something in common: Looking to the future. Not just as this move, but the next ten moves ahead. Bringing up shooting wasn't putting words in your mouth. Not once did I ever imply you said it would happen. I said that it IS happening and it's going to escalate further unless the violent rhetoric stops. Two protesting groups show up and one side punches the other. The other side shows up next time with sticks. The next time the other side shows up with knives and so on. This isn't conjecture, we've watched it, going back to the protests in Portland and Berkeley and following it though to today. It shouldn't be hard to see where things go from here. In New Mexico vandals showed up to tear down a statue and someone got shot. Those people are going to come back and they're going to come back armed, I'd lay money. In Ohio a BLM march was run out of town by armed protestors. If that march comes back it will also probably be armed, and where do things go from there.

I think we're still in the opening gambits of this conflict, with prodding threats and low casualties. All it will take though is one group that feels justified in using the full force they have available because the other side are nazis, the other side are fascists, the other side are supremacists, or the other side are just threatening them and now it's self defense and it all kicks off. This is what lies ten moves further into the game if we continue with this.

It's not bad faith, it's logic. I've explained myself, taken it step by step, progression from one level of escalation to the next. And yes, taken to its logical extreme it could be genocide. One protest opens fire on another one and a firefight ensues. Massive casualties on both sides. Does this de-escalate tensions or inflame them? Obviously it inflames them. So what's the next move? Assuming that the US government doesn't roll the army in and lock everything down, and there's your fascist state if ever there was one, it will be open season on both sides. Marches and protests will be cancelled, too many people, too easy a target. Instead you'll have smaller cells hunting down other cells, something akin to a cross between guerilla and gang warfare. This could go two ways, either with neither side gaining an advantage or one side gaining a clear advantage, and both are bad. The former means that the fighting could be extremely prolonged, resulting in likely a great deal of collateral damage and casualties. The latter will result in the losing side on the run, possibly being hunted down all the way. Were that to happen I believe one of two senarios likely, the losing side is either driven underground where it can wait and recover, or it is simply wiped out, rounded up and executed. All this assumes of course that the government doesnt come in with an even heavier hand and crush both of them.

All this because people decided it was okay to punch a certain group of people. Call it far fetched, call it a slippery slope but we're already seeing the first parts of this now. The rest is possible, unless you'd like to put forward an alternate timeline of events.

As a final note, I want to reference the genocide comment. Wiping out any group of people, for any reason, is a genocide. The Nazis did it with the jews because...I don't know. The Jews are the punching bag of the whole world and I never understood it. The soviet union did it with the poles. It's continuing today with the Kurds. Rounding up what's left of the nazis which at this point would consist of people who weren't even alive during that time would be no different. It would make you no better than them. If we have learned nothing from the crusades and jihads it's that rigtheous vengence is never right. Justified any way it can, it's still just revenge.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Kanrabat: "Considering the he current climate, you should refrain calling for help if you're the victim of a crime."

Hey, buddy, my comment is what is known as a joke. Satire. Considering the current climate, you should back the eff off.

That was not clear at all.

Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

ZeroWolf wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Kanrabat: "Considering the he current climate, you should refrain calling for help if you're the victim of a crime."

Hey, buddy, my comment is what is known as a joke. Satire. Considering the current climate, you should back the eff off.

That was not clear at all.

Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Actually the paw patrol thing was confirmed to be a joke that the New York Times took seriously because they thought it would be good click bait. So it was never really under threat. Besides people always try to get things banned no matter what their political banner.

Skritz wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

You know what? They should. Let Hasbro go 'full stupid' and have them remove Prowl and other police and rescue-themed characters. Let them go all 'cancel culture' on their own work and burn down the entire fanbase in the process, because that's basically what's going down these days. Everything is bad. Everything is cancelled.

These companies are idiots and just churn out the same pre approved message. That's how insincere this is, given they forgot to remove Prowl. There are basically dedicated people inside companies and their twitter division that tell them when its time to post some 'solidarity' thing to get good boy points.

Its all hollow. Its always hollow.

G1OptimusPAX wrote:

Skritz wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

You know what? They should. Let Hasbro go 'full stupid' and have them remove Prowl and other police and rescue-themed characters. Let them go all 'cancel culture' on their own work and burn down the entire fanbase in the process, because that's basically what's going down these days. Everything is bad. Everything is cancelled.

These companies are idiots and just churn out the same pre approved message. That's how insincere this is, given they forgot to remove Prowl. There are basically dedicated people inside companies and their twitter division that tell them when its time to post some 'solidarity' thing to get good boy points.

Its all hollow. Its always hollow.

You're right... if Prowl is a murdering, cowardly racist robot,,, then get his B!#@h a$$ out of there too.
See to hell with all of this talking mess in these threads. We ALL know some of you just want to see the world burn, so I feel no need to remove these things, I'd rather give these types of people the revenge they are BEGGING for! So yea, F#@k prowl too

Skritz wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Kanrabat: "Considering the he current climate, you should refrain calling for help if you're the victim of a crime."

Hey, buddy, my comment is what is known as a joke. Satire. Considering the current climate, you should back the eff off.

That was not clear at all.

Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Actually the paw patrol thing was confirmed to be a joke that the New York Times took seriously because they thought it would be good click bait. So it was never really under threat. Besides people always try to get things banned no matter what their political banner.

Yes but we have to remember that 2020 is so **** surreal at this point that anything might be plausible as the outrage mob gets ever stronger and less coherent with each passing day. As for Twitter (primary source of cancel culture), its very much a specific kind of echo chamber. The other type of 'ban what I don't like' was the evangelicon of the '80 and '90 and those are pretty much dead on the basis that Baby Boomers don't understand the internet.

ZeroWolf wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Kanrabat: "Considering the he current climate, you should refrain calling for help if you're the victim of a crime."

Hey, buddy, my comment is what is known as a joke. Satire. Considering the current climate, you should back the eff off.

That was not clear at all.

Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Actually the paw patrol thing was confirmed to be a joke that the New York Times took seriously because they thought it would be good click bait. So it was never really under threat. Besides people always try to get things banned no matter what their political banner.

High Command wrote:You argue against escalation, I argue against allowing nazisim to be able to spread any further than it has now.

High Command wrote:They can be opposed or they can be left to it. If they are unopposed and we follow the chess game analogy, are their numbers more likely to grow or decline?

Skritz wrote:

G1OptimusPAX wrote:

Skritz wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

You know what? They should. Let Hasbro go 'full stupid' and have them remove Prowl and other police and rescue-themed characters. Let them go all 'cancel culture' on their own work and burn down the entire fanbase in the process, because that's basically what's going down these days. Everything is bad. Everything is cancelled.

These companies are idiots and just churn out the same pre approved message. That's how insincere this is, given they forgot to remove Prowl. There are basically dedicated people inside companies and their twitter division that tell them when its time to post some 'solidarity' thing to get good boy points.

Its all hollow. Its always hollow.

You're right... if Prowl is a murdering, cowardly racist robot,,, then get his B!#@h a$$ out of there too.
See to hell with all of this talking mess in these threads. We ALL know some of you just want to see the world burn, so I feel no need to remove these things, I'd rather give these types of people the revenge they are BEGGING for! So yea, F#@k prowl too

I'd rather not see the world and things I like burn down but I'm at the stage that it has gotten so stupid that I might as well root for everything to just burn down and be turned to ash right now, in an instant, than see everything die a slow burn. If people are going to stand on certain ideas, then fine, go ahead and do it. Burn everything down. Destroy one thing, then another and another because the outrage mob will never be pleased. If Transformers wish to go down this path (and it already has) then it better be ready to become the nuclear wasteland that Disney Star Wars has become.

If Prowl is removed as 'problematic', then please go ahead. Do it. Be the angry mob you want to be, people: at least be honest about what you stand for. Then remove all other police and rescue vehicle-themed Transformers. Oh and then remove every military vehicle because it promote 'American warmongering'. Then remove every animal, because it promote violence against animals. Then remove every ordinary vehicle because it 'promotes pollution'.

See what I mean? Anyone jumping down this rabbit hole choose self destruction.

ShadowKatt wrote:

High Command wrote:You argue against escalation, I argue against allowing nazisim to be able to spread any further than it has now.

I do feel that sums up the whole conversation right there. The immovable object vs the unstoppable force. But one point, the third option I keep desperately trying to get out there.

High Command wrote:They can be opposed or they can be left to it. If they are unopposed and we follow the chess game analogy, are their numbers more likely to grow or decline?

I have one contention here because I think one thing was left out. As it stands now, their numbers are likely to grow. They are growing, quickly. And I think you are right that we could very well be facing another 1930s germany situation. The one contention I want to bring up though is that this is a wildfire burning out of control. It's feeding off our current sociopolitical situation like kindling. Every protests that turns violent, whether it's because of the police or rioters and vandals, feeds it. Every single civilian that is injured or killed, feeds it. Every time someone comes out and declares BLM a terrorist group, feeds it. Every time someone calls the police or the counterprotesters nazis and fascists, feeds it. You don't put out a fire by feeding it, you put it out by either starving it or smothering it. You seem to be in favor more of the latter than the former and for your sake I wish you luck because if you're wrong and you try to smother it you'll end up on fire yourself, metaphoricly speaking of course.

Refering back to German History, you're advocating for the assassination of the socialist party. Hindsight being 20/20, you seem to believe that you could have beaten them, shot them, hung them, or run them out of town and it would have ended the whole thing. It might have. The people could have also simply ignored them. As Zero was kind enough to educate me on earlier, the Jews seemed to just be a scape goat that everyone latched on to when they put it out there. Imagine if, and just stay with me here, the germans had not bought into the racism and bigotry and simply ignored them. No attending their speeches, no listening to their rallies, and no voting for them. The socialist party never comes into power, Hitler is never installed in the government, the Nazi party never comes to power, and WWII never happens. Defused before it could ever go off, instead of trying to hammer the timebomb and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. That is what we could be doing here.

One of the things I think might be helpful to keep in mind is that rallies and marches happen all the time in the US. I can't speak to the rest of the world but I'm going to assume that as long as it's legal, both explicity and implicity, it probably happens there too. Right wing marches are hardly new, be it for anti-abortion reasons, gun rights, whatever. Most of the time it's completely ignored because if nothing goes wrong it's boring. They never make the newspaper, they never make the 6 o'clock segment, most people are completely unaware and don't pay them a moments notice. Why do you think the KKK, which has been practically dormant for years is now suddenly seeing a massive resurgence? The more people clash, the more property is destroyed, the more lives are lost people are picking sides, just adding more heat to that fire. We stop this, we remove the fuel, they lose the heat and go back to a pathetic smoldering pile of charcoal.

I tell you what though, maybe some of the other people in this thread were right. Maybe I've been too passively neutral. Perhaps it's time to become actively neutral because **** both sides. I'm starting to lean towards the opinion of I don't care who's right or wrong anymore, I want it to end. I'm tired, I'm burned out, and I'm not the only one. If both sides of this don't end up killing each other at the end of this it'll end up with the government stepping in and I'm already too wiped from trying to calm both sides down to stop that one too. That should concern you more than the nazis out there. At least you know what the nazi's are going to do. I can't even begin to predict the house of cats that is the government.

G1OptimusPAX wrote:

Skritz wrote:

G1OptimusPAX wrote:

Skritz wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

You know what? They should. Let Hasbro go 'full stupid' and have them remove Prowl and other police and rescue-themed characters. Let them go all 'cancel culture' on their own work and burn down the entire fanbase in the process, because that's basically what's going down these days. Everything is bad. Everything is cancelled.

These companies are idiots and just churn out the same pre approved message. That's how insincere this is, given they forgot to remove Prowl. There are basically dedicated people inside companies and their twitter division that tell them when its time to post some 'solidarity' thing to get good boy points.

Its all hollow. Its always hollow.

You're right... if Prowl is a murdering, cowardly racist robot,,, then get his B!#@h a$$ out of there too.
See to hell with all of this talking mess in these threads. We ALL know some of you just want to see the world burn, so I feel no need to remove these things, I'd rather give these types of people the revenge they are BEGGING for! So yea, F#@k prowl too

I'd rather not see the world and things I like burn down but I'm at the stage that it has gotten so stupid that I might as well root for everything to just burn down and be turned to ash right now, in an instant, than see everything die a slow burn. If people are going to stand on certain ideas, then fine, go ahead and do it. Burn everything down. Destroy one thing, then another and another because the outrage mob will never be pleased. If Transformers wish to go down this path (and it already has) then it better be ready to become the nuclear wasteland that Disney Star Wars has become.

If Prowl is removed as 'problematic', then please go ahead. Do it. Be the angry mob you want to be, people: at least be honest about what you stand for. Then remove all other police and rescue vehicle-themed Transformers. Oh and then remove every military vehicle because it promote 'American warmongering'. Then remove every animal, because it promote violence against animals. Then remove every ordinary vehicle because it 'promotes pollution'.

See what I mean? Anyone jumping down this rabbit hole choose self destruction.

Like i said (let me be more clear),,, if prowl is a murdering BASTARD... THEN I FEEL NOTHING... Stop using all of your jargon and stick to a point. If you are a murdering bastard, then remove them.
Now you can play and use cartoons all you want, but there is a reason you're typing and using your comfortable words.
No one is above anyone, period.
Go about your day son

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

Rodimus Knight wrote:

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

I'm betting they're taken advantage of the COVID delay on the series to convert Prowl into Bluestreak or Smokescreen for this same reason

ShadowKatt wrote:

High Command wrote:You argue against escalation, I argue against allowing nazisim to be able to spread any further than it has now.

I do feel that sums up the whole conversation right there. The immovable object vs the unstoppable force. But one point, the third option I keep desperately trying to get out there.

High Command wrote:They can be opposed or they can be left to it. If they are unopposed and we follow the chess game analogy, are their numbers more likely to grow or decline?

I have one contention here because I think one thing was left out. As it stands now, their numbers are likely to grow. They are growing, quickly. And I think you are right that we could very well be facing another 1930s germany situation. The one contention I want to bring up though is that this is a wildfire burning out of control. It's feeding off our current sociopolitical situation like kindling. Every protests that turns violent, whether it's because of the police or rioters and vandals, feeds it. Every single civilian that is injured or killed, feeds it. Every time someone comes out and declares BLM a terrorist group, feeds it. Every time someone calls the police or the counterprotesters nazis and fascists, feeds it. You don't put out a fire by feeding it, you put it out by either starving it or smothering it. You seem to be in favor more of the latter than the former and for your sake I wish you luck because if you're wrong and you try to smother it you'll end up on fire yourself, metaphoricly speaking of course.

Refering back to German History, you're advocating for the assassination of the socialist party. Hindsight being 20/20, you seem to believe that you could have beaten them, shot them, hung them, or run them out of town and it would have ended the whole thing. It might have. The people could have also simply ignored them. As Zero was kind enough to educate me on earlier, the Jews seemed to just be a scape goat that everyone latched on to when they put it out there. Imagine if, and just stay with me here, the germans had not bought into the racism and bigotry and simply ignored them. No attending their speeches, no listening to their rallies, and no voting for them. The socialist party never comes into power, Hitler is never installed in the government, the Nazi party never comes to power, and WWII never happens. Defused before it could ever go off, instead of trying to hammer the timebomb and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. That is what we could be doing here.

One of the things I think might be helpful to keep in mind is that rallies and marches happen all the time in the US. I can't speak to the rest of the world but I'm going to assume that as long as it's legal, both explicity and implicity, it probably happens there too. Right wing marches are hardly new, be it for anti-abortion reasons, gun rights, whatever. Most of the time it's completely ignored because if nothing goes wrong it's boring. They never make the newspaper, they never make the 6 o'clock segment, most people are completely unaware and don't pay them a moments notice. Why do you think the KKK, which has been practically dormant for years is now suddenly seeing a massive resurgence? The more people clash, the more property is destroyed, the more lives are lost people are picking sides, just adding more heat to that fire. We stop this, we remove the fuel, they lose the heat and go back to a pathetic smoldering pile of charcoal.

I tell you what though, maybe some of the other people in this thread were right. Maybe I've been too passively neutral. Perhaps it's time to become actively neutral because **** both sides. I'm starting to lean towards the opinion of I don't care who's right or wrong anymore, I want it to end. I'm tired, I'm burned out, and I'm not the only one. If both sides of this don't end up killing each other at the end of this it'll end up with the government stepping in and I'm already too wiped from trying to calm both sides down to stop that one too. That should concern you more than the nazis out there. At least you know what the nazi's are going to do. I can't even begin to predict the house of cats that is the government.

Absolute Zero wrote:I want to point something out I neglected before. Chess players don't plan out moves ten moves in advance. They have an end goal, and they have several rehearsed strategies to get there to counter moves made by the opponent. To claim otherwise is to claim precognition.

Absolute Zero wrote:German starting WW2 wasn't just because Hitler hated the Jews. He needed a scapegoat for his Nationalism

Absolute Zero wrote:Nazi/Neo Nazi/Fascism is a poison. It's a rot. If you leave it alone or try to ignore it, it festers and will destroy the whole.

Absolute Zero wrote:Now, I'm gonna and wait for the lock, cause this thread some how seems to have gotten worse while we were trying to behave better.

AcademyofDrX wrote:This thread is practically unreadable because half the posters are on my "ignore" list. I'm glad that function is still working as designed.

ShadowKatt wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:I want to point something out I neglected before. Chess players don't plan out moves ten moves in advance. They have an end goal, and they have several rehearsed strategies to get there to counter moves made by the opponent. To claim otherwise is to claim precognition.

Well, I'm not precognative, but when I play I tend to try and work out move-countermove about five to ten moves ahead. Obviously, I'm not a speed player, my games tend to take hours, but I generally try to glean any psychology out of my opponent in their mannerisms and their playstyle to predict them. You are right that every player has an end goal and most people have favorite gambits they like to play to get there. But you don't need to be psychic to ask yourself "If I were my opponent and this was the move made, what would I do in return". That's just basic strategy, and I think it serves us well here.

Absolute Zero wrote:German starting WW2 wasn't just because Hitler hated the Jews. He needed a scapegoat for his Nationalism

I knew that, the question I guess I meant to ask is why is it ALWAYS the Jews? Going back to biblical times, it's always the jews. Doesn't matter what time period, doesn't matter what corner of the globe, it's always them. I suppose you technically answered that already, which is people are stupid and they are convenient, but still, always the same people.

Absolute Zero wrote:Nazi/Neo Nazi/Fascism is a poison. It's a rot. If you leave it alone or try to ignore it, it festers and will destroy the whole.

You have NO idea how much I want to agree with you on that, because on an emotional level, I do. it's kinda exactly what I've been preaching all this time, that if we keep pushing these violent and hateful rhetorics it is going to tear everything apart. The problem comes in this: Lets say I give you this one. Nazism bad. Round them all up, stick them in a warehouse. Gas 'em all. Bit of poetic justice, right? Then we all move on with our lives. Except we don't. Maybe after the Nazi's we go after the KKK. Round them up too? Have a little front yard barbeque? Afterall, they brought the crosses. That should be good, right? What about the Proud Boys? What about the NRA? What about what about what about. I know we all REALLY hate the "what about" game, but I want an answer to it no matter how trivial you might think it to be. Once we start down that road it will never stop until we end up like the Soviet Union, with one group in power and death or exile to everyone else. The Nazi's did it in Germany. The Soviets did it in Russia. The Chinese are doing it right now with the muslims and anyone that dares oppose the CCP. Are we willing to become the Nazis to get rid of the Nazis? I know, I know, you can point out that they had a racial superiority manifesto and this is ideological, but the Nazis are the only ones that want the Jews dead. The Muslims have been trying to do it for millenia with varying degrees of success and that's certainly not about race.



Edit:

Absolute Zero wrote:Now, I'm gonna and wait for the lock, cause this thread some how seems to have gotten worse while we were trying to behave better.

I think you're right about this too, and that'll be a shame. I'm not going to convince you to join my position, I don't think you'll manage to convince me to join you, but this discussion? This is a good thing. And it'll be sad when that goes away.

ShadowKatt wrote:
You have NO idea how much I want to agree with you on that, because on an emotional level, I do. it's kinda exactly what I've been preaching all this time, that if we keep pushing these violent and hateful rhetorics it is going to tear everything apart. The problem comes in this: Lets say I give you this one. Nazism bad. Round them all up, stick them in a warehouse. Gas 'em all. Bit of poetic justice, right? Then we all move on with our lives. Except we don't. Maybe after the Nazi's we go after the KKK. Round them up too? Have a little front yard barbeque? Afterall, they brought the crosses. That should be good, right? What about the Proud Boys? What about the NRA? What about what about what about. I know we all REALLY hate the "what about" game, but I want an answer to it no matter how trivial you might think it to be. Once we start down that road it will never stop until we end up like the Soviet Union, with one group in power and death or exile to everyone else.

Rodimus Knight wrote:So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rodimus Knight wrote:So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

Be careful. This fact could short circuit the average NPC brain. But I'm sure they are in shape enough to do the usual mental gymnastics to avoid directly answering.

High Command wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rodimus Knight wrote:So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

Be careful. This fact could short circuit the average NPC brain. But I'm sure they are in shape enough to do the usual mental gymnastics to avoid directly answering.

I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

As far as I'm concerned both parties are to blame for ignoring the problem for too long.

Donald Trump isn't exactly helping matters but that's not because he's a Republican president, that's because he's a malignant narcissist who's entire presidency is about his ego. Under a normal president of either party some calming words promising token reforms would have been said by now and tensions eased somewhat. If anything his intransigence to form any meaningful dialogue and continued provocations are stirring on the protests even further. Ironically this stance may actually lead to wider reforms are more people who'd usually sit things out, side with the protests.

High Command wrote:I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Rodimus Knight wrote:So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

william-james88 wrote:How is that related to anything? Being racist goes beyond a political party.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

High Command wrote:I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

Thinking about it, that's true. But obviously, I never, ever heard someone from "the left" blame the Democrats from their own failure.

Also, if it the policies in a Democrat city just don't work, why does the people of that city keep voting Democrat over and over, decades after decades like a beaten wife who can't leave her abusive husband?

Say what you will about Trump, but he was right to ask them to vote Republican for once because "What do you have to lose?"

At least they could shift every 8 years "just because" like in many places. Some may think people would be tired to live Groundhog Day over and over...

william-james88 wrote:Being racist goes beyond a political party.

o.supreme wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Kind of sad. My sons first experience with TF was Rescue Bots. Such a great show for kids...I can't speak to Academy since my son obviously out grew it before then. But it's no doubt sadly on someone's list somewhere to be cancelled. Makes me even more disappointed SF! never realeased proper DVD seasons, just random one offs. This show may well become harder for TF fans to see legally than RiD soon enough.

High Command wrote:Both parties need a good kicking from where I'm sitting. They're both complacent and too detached from what really matters.

Absolute Zero wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Kind of sad. My sons first experience with TF was Rescue Bots. Such a great show for kids...I can't speak to Academy since my son obviously out grew it before then. But it's no doubt sadly on someone's list somewhere to be cancelled. Makes me even more disappointed SF! never realeased proper DVD seasons, just random one offs. This show may well become harder for TF fans to see legally than RiD soon enough.

The paw patrol thing was fake news.

ShadowKatt wrote:it's the same people that think the OK gesture is suddenly the new Seig Heil, and those people are **** crazy.

boyatlarge wrote:Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

High Command wrote:Both parties need a good kicking from where I'm sitting. They're both complacent and too detached from what really matters.

ShadowKatt wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Kind of sad. My sons first experience with TF was Rescue Bots. Such a great show for kids...I can't speak to Academy since my son obviously out grew it before then. But it's no doubt sadly on someone's list somewhere to be cancelled. Makes me even more disappointed SF! never realeased proper DVD seasons, just random one offs. This show may well become harder for TF fans to see legally than RiD soon enough.

The paw patrol thing was fake news.

The problem here is that fake or not, some people will believe it.