Hasbro Confirms SS86 HotRod was a Voyager Due to Engineering and that All G1 Dinobots are Coming in the Same Scale

Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.

sol magnus wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.

Nice… I wouldn’t call it a “fix”… More of an adjustment.
And it looks better, right?

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Yes, that relieves me too

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Yes, that relieves me too

I just hope “eventually” doesn’t mean 2+ years from now!!

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader. While it would be appropriate for all of the Dinobots to be the same size we know there's this weird preconceived notion that Swoop is smaller. If Hasbro shares that notion then they might view a tall Voyager as being the same scale as a bunch of tall Leaders. I don't know, I'm still not entirely convinced Hasbro will do this right.

That aside a thought occurred to me. The Netflix line is long over and only Walmart can currently release the G1 Soundwave and VW Bumblebee molds, I wonder if Hasbro has ever pitched to them an exclusive SS86 redeco release of them similar to what we've seen with Cliffjumper and Kup at Target? Surely they must have at some point, right? If not that then retro packaged releases like they most recently did with the Headmasters. Hasbro knows how badly people want a second shot at these molds, they must have pitched a second release of some sort.

Emerje

Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

DeathReviews wrote:Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

I think that's what will happen with Swoop, there won't be anything complex with him, but his wings will gobble up plastic, even then though, I think he'll have extras. What this would be, is anyone's guess.

(More human characters? Toy accurate weapons for everyone?)

ZeroWolf wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

I think that's what will happen with Swoop, there won't be anything complex with him, but his wings will gobble up plastic, even then though, I think he'll have extras. What this would be, is anyone's guess.

(More human characters? Toy accurate weapons for everyone?)

He had a big adventure with Carly, assuming he's not in Studio Series 86.

william-james88 wrote:But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size.

And that's fine to a certain extent but if they plan to use that excuse to justify releasing a smaller Bot like say Bee or Cliff Jumper in the Voyager price it then becomes an issue, because IMO there's only so much "complexity" you can pack into a small robot. And frankly I don't see how Hot Rod can be considered Voyager while Perceptor is not, according to their website he only lacks 9 steps compared to Hot Rod. The same amount that Blaster has yet he's a Voyager, so does that mean Eject costs $11?

Plus what does that say for the new Elita-1 at only 14 steps to Perceptor's 20, and does that mean it has to be at least 14 steps to be a DLX Bot? What happens if it only takes ten steps to transform will they create a new class or just lump it all in the same having people pay more for a lesser toy?

This is a slippery slope when you consider Hasbro's the one who decides where the bot goes based on complexity as they could simply over design it to fit that higher price point. I've seen this kind of in house manipulation happen before.

Till-all-R1 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size.

And that's fine to a certain extent but if they plan to use that excuse to justify releasing a smaller Bot like say Bee or Cliff Jumper in the Voyager price it then becomes an issue, because IMO there's only so much "complexity" you can pack into a small robot. And frankly I don't see how Hot Rod can be considered Voyager while Perceptor is not, according to their website he only lacks 9 steps compared to Hot Rod. The same amount that Blaster has yet he's a Voyager, so does that mean Eject costs $11?

Plus what does that say for the new Elita-1 at only 14 steps to Perceptor's 20, and does that mean it has to be at least 14 steps to be a DLX Bot? What happens if it only takes ten steps to transform will they create a new class or just lump it all in the same having people pay more for a lesser toy?

This is a slippery slope when you consider Hasbro's the one who decides where the bot goes based on complexity as they could simply over design it to fit that higher price point. I've seen this kind of in house manipulation happen before.

Remember accessories count as well, which means smaller bots will come with more stuff. Also, can it really be classed as in house manipulation if their just changing their rules? It's mot like some non-hasbro entity set the rules for price points snd the class distinctions.

Emerje wrote:Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader.

In the same article you can see the same designer using "scale" to mean class. he literally calls Hot Rod a "voyager scale" even though we know it's not a typical voyager size. From reading that designer's words, he is simply saying that the remaining dinobots will all be leaders.

NOW, that doesn't mean Swoop won't be shorter. They could make him have a big wingspan and compensate the use of plastic by making him shorter. Would be innacurate though. We'll see.

Till-all-R1 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size.

And that's fine to a certain extent but if they plan to use that excuse to justify releasing a smaller Bot like say Bee or Cliff Jumper in the Voyager price it then becomes an issue, because IMO there's only so much "complexity" you can pack into a small robot. And frankly I don't see how Hot Rod can be considered Voyager while Perceptor is not, according to their website he only lacks 9 steps compared to Hot Rod. The same amount that Blaster has yet he's a Voyager, so does that mean Eject costs $11?

Plus what does that say for the new Elita-1 at only 14 steps to Perceptor's 20, and does that mean it has to be at least 14 steps to be a DLX Bot? What happens if it only takes ten steps to transform will they create a new class or just lump it all in the same having people pay more for a lesser toy?

This is a slippery slope when you consider Hasbro's the one who decides where the bot goes based on complexity as they could simply over design it to fit that higher price point. I've seen this kind of in house manipulation happen before.

Engineering doesn't just mean complexity, it also reffers to articulation and moving parts. You are assuming that more steps means more moving parts but that may not be the case at all times since you may need several moving parts to complete one step.

Also, what you describe in the begining has been happening for years. MP Bumblebee is a deluxe sized figure sold at the commander class point due to it's complexity. MP Trailbreaker is a leader sized figure sold at the titan class price point. That philosophy is now being expanded to any line aimed at fans.

Emerje wrote:Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader. While it would be appropriate for all of the Dinobots to be the same size we know there's this weird preconceived notion that Swoop is smaller. If Hasbro shares that notion then they might view a tall Voyager as being the same scale as a bunch of tall Leaders. I don't know, I'm still not entirely convinced Hasbro will do this right.

That aside a thought occurred to me. The Netflix line is long over and only Walmart can currently release the G1 Soundwave and VW Bumblebee molds, I wonder if Hasbro has ever pitched to them an exclusive SS86 redeco release of them similar to what we've seen with Cliffjumper and Kup at Target? Surely they must have at some point, right? If not that then retro packaged releases like they most recently did with the Headmasters. Hasbro knows how badly people want a second shot at these molds, they must have pitched a second release of some sort.

Emerje

I understand not trusting that Hastak is going to do the right thing... There's still a chance of that.
However, here's the thing:
ER Optimus is one of the tallest voyager class figures, and he's pretty small compared to these 3 new Dinobots:

The seekers, Soundwave, and Blaster are all legit voyagers, and they're even slightly shorter than Prime.
I know you said "tall voyager", but add an inch to OP and the top of his head is still just below the height of Sludge's shoulder. Which yeah, some people don't care and would be fine with.
Hastak has done a pretty bang-up job with the proportions of recent figures, and that's one thing I feel confident that they'll get right here.
Considering this, IF Swoop is shorter, that also means that his torso, limbs, and pretty much everything, must be smaller... Otherwise he's going to look much too stout.
So being shorter also means he's going to be on the scrawny side... Which will make the difference in height highlight the overall difference in size.
I also get that Swoop's limbs were already smaller/more trim than those of the other 4.
Again, this will only be overly emphasized if they make him too small compared to the rest.
On top of this, also factor in that Swoop is going to require 1/3 if not 1/4 of the engineering of the others... Think about the transformation of Slag's legs and upper torso... Swoop doesn't need anything close to either of those areas. He also doesn't have any more overall deco than the others.
Imo if they do this character justice, he'll have 3 hinges for each wing. I'd also hope that his dino head can swivel/rotate as well as have some downward as well as a little upward movement.
The point being, by using some more plastic in making him larger, Hastak is going to get to charge full leader class price for a figure that doesn't actually require the same production costs as the others.
And I believe that Sludge has started the trend of nixing any additional pack-in's.
I know some (including me) have wishful thinking that Swoop could be packed with multiple swords, or even fire-colored blast effects... But I really doubt either of those will happen.

In terms of your thought on Soundwave being a Walmart exclusive, yeah, I think it's a safe assumption something was pitched... But who knows... I would think some exclusivity rights start and end with that specific release. Seems stupid to lock that down to one retailer for an indefinite span of time.

DeathReviews wrote:Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

Sorry, Death... I have the opposite view... Huge wings attached to a tiny torso will look even more ridiculous. And again, with Hastak's recent releases, I don't see that happening.
As stated in the designer's own post, they're going off of character models.

Sorry, Death... I have the opposite view... Huge wings attached to a tiny torso will look even more ridiculous. And again, with Hastak's recent releases, I don't see that happening.
As stated in the designer's own post, they're going off of character models.

Fair enough - at the moment, we can only guess. But I'm thinking along the lines of Wingfinger. As a deluxe, that figure was willowy, light and had much less substance than you would normally see in a deluxe. But when you set it side by side with 'normal' deluxes like Sunstreaker, Skids, or Spinister - Wingfinger kind of LOOKS bigger if you spread the wings out.



Swoop's animation model still has the wings spread out so that they are at least as wide as two of the other dinobots standing side-by-side. It's hard to find in-cartoon shots of all the dinobots in alt mode, bunched close together, because Swoop's wings take up a lot of room. Normally they have Swoop flying high above the others, or tucked into the background behind the other dinobots. Otherwise, his wings would be covering up most of the screen, and they couldn't have THAT now, could they?



If the scale in THIS shot carries over to the figures, then Swoop could wind up looking pretty darn big. Fold the wings up for robot mode, and yeah, he might look no more substantial than Grimlock.

But again - we must wait and see what they ACTUALLY do.

I wonder how Swoop will look, Dino mode will be very boxy and silly LOL. (but accurate)
What I'd really like too see is Studio Series 86 Devastator, but it probably won't happen

william-james88 wrote:

Emerje wrote:Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader.

In the same article you can see the same designer using "scale" to mean class. he literally calls Hot Rod a "voyager scale" even though we know it's not a typical voyager size. From reading that designer's words, he is simply saying that the remaining dinobots will all be leaders.

NOW, that doesn't mean Swoop won't be shorter. They could make him have a big wingspan and compensate the use of plastic by making him shorter. Would be inaccurate though. We'll see."


Sorry, all above this is quoted, Seibertron just didn't code it correctly.

I have Hot Rod, and I think the voyager price point is worth it, he comes with a truckload of accessories! But Override has me worried. If we pay voyager for "extra paint apps" has gone power hungry and lazy. I hope Prime Vs Prime was missing something, otherwise it's insane! I don't see how they could compensate for a smaller swoop, I can't think of many "accurate" accessories. He will most likely be leader sized.

Compensating for voyager when it's a deluxe with accessories is fine, as long as it has a LOT of accessories. But it is technically lying when the packaging doesn't mention that it's shorter with more accessories.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Yes, that relieves me too

I just hope “eventually” doesn’t mean 2+ years from now!!

LOL that would take a while, and by then third parties would start making unofficial studio series!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.[/quote]


Now there are two Studio Series Spikes!

Devastator, OBVIOUSLY
But it probably won't happen sadly because of and

SS86 Hot Rod is an absolute bitch to transform. My hats off to the designers as he really is an engineering marvel, but he’s definitely a toy that will forever remain in robot form on my shelf.

I hope this means they finish the Live-Action Dinobots later

Day 870 of waiting for Transformers Armada Masterpiece news.

TOO MUCH ENERGON! wrote:SS86 Hot Rod is an absolute bitch to transform. My hats off to the designers as he really is an engineering marvel, but he’s definitely a toy that will forever remain in robot form on my shelf.

Really? He's involved, but he's not particularly complex.

He's more awkward than difficult I would say. and that's just the arms and torso portion that you need to rotate around.

The Legs and the backpack are fairly straight forward.

It is on a completely different level engineering wise to say Kingdom Blaster and also has a couple more features than blaster which adds to the engineering complexity.

Its a great figure well worth the Voyager price tag if you ask me. Much like Commander Class Rodimus makes great use of the available budget for the main robot.

I wish G2 Prime would have been a commander Class figure.

TOO MUCH ENERGON! wrote:SS86 Hot Rod is an absolute bitch to transform. My hats off to the designers as he really is an engineering marvel, but he’s definitely a toy that will forever remain in robot form on my shelf.

I have two - one forever in robot mode and one forever in car mode.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.

Nice… I wouldn’t call it a “fix”… More of an adjustment.
And it looks better, right?

Not only does it look better, that's how it's supposed to be. When I shot those I just took him straight out of his box. When I looked at the back of the box it had the correct arm orientation so I changed it...after I had already shot the pictures.

DeathReviews wrote:Fair enough - at the moment, we can only guess. But I'm thinking along the lines of Wingfinger. As a deluxe, that figure was willowy, light and had much less substance than you would normally see in a deluxe. But when you set it side by side with 'normal' deluxes like Sunstreaker, Skids, or Spinister - Wingfinger kind of LOOKS bigger if you spread the wings out.

Swoop's animation model still has the wings spread out so that they are at least as wide as two of the other dinobots standing side-by-side. If that carries over to the figures, then Swoop could wind up looking pretty darn big. Fold the wings up for robot mode, and yeah, he might look no more substantial than Grimlock.

But again - we must wait and see what they ACTUALLY do.

I do agree that the wings on a figure can make them appear slightly bigger.
I'm confidently assuming he's going to be as tall as the other 4. Any difference in height will be slight.

Here's what I'm predicting, based on using the image below and what we have with these two:

Swoop's torso will be almost as wide as Sludge's.
The shoulder width will be the same as Sludge's (obviously cube-like rather than cylindrical in form, and closer in height to Slag's shoulders).
Arm length will be in-between Slag's and Sludge's. I could see the arms being shortened for dino mode by collapsing/sliding the forearms up over the elbow joints.
Upper legs will be almost the exact same as Sludge's in terms of size; lower legs about the same width as Slag's.
The wings will be rather large, as they should be.
I almost forgot, the reason I don't think they'll pack-in anything more than his blaster is because the missiles... Those should be pieces involving the 'ol 5mm pegs (or ports if the pegs are on the wings).
Which then would make those an option of adding to other figures.
Either way, when you look at the character model, those aren't exactly small missiles.

In the grand scheme, and even with some specifics, we know what they're doing...
Any grays, red, and yellow-gold areas are going to match those of the other Dinobots.
There's going to be relatively the same amount of sculpted detail to the mold design.
The dino's lower jaw will be articulated.

This isn't me trying to claim original thought here...
These are just seemingly safe bets going off of what we have from the first 3, as well as what that designer has shared.

Of course there are facets of details that we can't predict--
Are the hands too small? How many hinge joints will the wings have? Will the dino feet be static or articulated? How much articulation with the dino head have?

Bottom line, I'm expecting Swoop to be as accurate to the character model as the others are.
And sure, the height is somewhat unpredictable, but I'm assuming any difference will be minimal.

So has anyone's hotrod's broken yet? I remember there being some posts about small parts in the head or knee that were snapping, and I'm wondering if anyone here has had that happen?

Hellscream9999 wrote:So has anyone's hotrod's broken yet? I remember there being some posts about small parts in the head or knee that were snapping, and I'm wondering if anyone here has had that happen?

I'm playing with mine now. Theres not a hint of breakage.

Hellscream9999 wrote:So has anyone's hotrod's broken yet? I remember there being some posts about small parts in the head or knee that were snapping, and I'm wondering if anyone here has had that happen?

Nope. Mine is still fine, and he’s been transformed many times.

Re-reading the article I'm a little more convinced that Swoop will be a leader based on this quote:

As you can see from the images, this is a Hasui san item (as are all the dinobots) so you can see it's chocked full of wonderful detail that references the G1 toy while having the proportions and design elements of the Cartoon animation model.

After saying that if Swoop is any bit shorter than the rest I think we have a legit reason to complain.

Sowndwave76 wrote:In terms of your thought on Soundwave being a Walmart exclusive, yeah, I think it's a safe assumption something was pitched... But who knows... I would think some exclusivity rights start and end with that specific release. Seems stupid to lock that down to one retailer for an indefinite span of time.

Well we know this is a fact because it was the reason we were given for Siege Soundwave being in Legacy instead of Netflix Soundwave.

One of the biggest points of discussion was the whole deal with Hasbro releasing Siege Soundwave, which was plentiful, rather than the Netflix Soundwave which both had the G1 alt mode many fans wanted AND was only released as a Walmart exclusive at a higher price due to coming in a multipack. Well, Hasbro was very blunt and honest regarding this, it is due to the exclusive status of the molding. If new molding is released exclusively through a retailer, then that retailer has the rights to the selling of that toy and the tooling for a certain amount of time. Not all contracts are the same. For instance, Amazon had exclusive rights to the Kingdom Terrorsaur release/tooling but the time of that exclusivity was short enough that now Target owns the rights to selling that tooling since they will do that with the redeco coming soon.

Emerje

That's some damn fine reporting you are quoting, Emerje.

sol magnus wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:So has anyone's hotrod's broken yet? I remember there being some posts about small parts in the head or knee that were snapping, and I'm wondering if anyone here has had that happen?

I'm playing with mine now. Theres not a hint of breakage.

Same here, just transformed him again. And he isn't that hard. The only bit that is complex is the counterintuitive way the front of the car transforms.
But that is no way even close to how counterintuitive Siege Springer is. I had him next to me and he was much harder to figure out.

Emerje wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:In terms of your thought on Soundwave being a Walmart exclusive, yeah, I think it's a safe assumption something was pitched... But who knows... I would think some exclusivity rights start and end with that specific release. Seems stupid to lock that down to one retailer for an indefinite span of time.

Well we know this is a fact because it was the reason we were given for Siege Soundwave being in Legacy instead of Netflix Soundwave.

I get that... I understand why the Legacy release of Soundwave is what it is...
My point was that it seems dumb for a retailer to have the rights to a mold for very long after the mold is actually released.
Walmart has made whatever money they're going to make from that NF Soundwave figure.
Using the mold now doesn't take away from any money they made.
Not to mention, this is a case where it's a relatively general-type of alt mode for a re-tooled figure, not a specific make/model of a vehicle. And not a completely new mold.
On top of all of that, the release from Walmart is still an exclusive due to fact that it was a set of 3 figures.

If Hastak was stupid enough to contractually commit to never using the NF Soundwave mold again, then I think they need to buck-up and make a completely new Soundwave mold.
Releasing the Siege version in the Legacy line is so lame... I get it, it's a money maker for Hastak.
But for fans and collectors... Insert sad trumpet phrase.
Such a letdown of a release.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:In terms of your thought on Soundwave being a Walmart exclusive, yeah, I think it's a safe assumption something was pitched... But who knows... I would think some exclusivity rights start and end with that specific release. Seems stupid to lock that down to one retailer for an indefinite span of time.

Well we know this is a fact because it was the reason we were given for Siege Soundwave being in Legacy instead of Netflix Soundwave.

I get that... I understand why the Legacy release of Soundwave is what it is...
My point was that it seems dumb for a retailer to have the rights to a mold for very long after the mold is actually released.

Here's why: It's to ensure that you buy the figure when you see it. If the exclusivity is only theirs for as long as the initial product is on shelves, then people can wait to find it elsewhere later. That's a timed exclusive and McFarlane has that with a few retailers. Walmart had it with MOTU origins. They are less profitable since exclusives are often linked to the collector market, and older fans, and while some may want it right away, others may be smart enough to know to wait to find it elsewhere, reducing how much money Walmart is making from that exclusivity. That is not the deal they agreed to with Hasbro for Soundwave. They wanted a toy you cannot find elsewhere, meaning that if fans want this product they have to buy it then and there. And if they miss out, then too bad, they'll know not to hesitate next time.
This isn't dumb, it's just business. It ensures that consumers buy it and that the item never goes on clearance, which retailers want to avoid.

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:In terms of your thought on Soundwave being a Walmart exclusive, yeah, I think it's a safe assumption something was pitched... But who knows... I would think some exclusivity rights start and end with that specific release. Seems stupid to lock that down to one retailer for an indefinite span of time.

Well we know this is a fact because it was the reason we were given for Siege Soundwave being in Legacy instead of Netflix Soundwave.

I get that... I understand why the Legacy release of Soundwave is what it is...
My point was that it seems dumb for a retailer to have the rights to a mold for very long after the mold is actually released.

Here's why: It's to ensure that you buy the figure when you see it. If the exclusivity is only theirs for as long as the initial product is on shelves, then people can wait to find it elsewhere later. That's a timed exclusive and McFarlane has that with a few retailers. Walmart had it with MOTU origins. They are less profitable since exclusives are often linked to the collector market, and older fans, and while some may want it right away, others may be smart enough to know to wait to find it elsewhere, reducing how much money Walmart is making from that exclusivity. That is not the deal they agreed to with Hasbro for Soundwave. They wanted a toy you cannot find elsewhere, meaning that if fans want this product they have to buy it then and there. And if they miss out, then too bad, they'll know not to hesitate next time.
This isn't dumb, it's just business. It ensures that consumers buy it and that the item never goes on clearance, which retailers want to avoid.

Just as an aside, the timed exclusivity on MOTUO has led to many problems, the least of which is that Wave 2 was very hard to find.

william-james88 wrote:Here's why: It's to ensure that you buy the figure when you see it. If the exclusivity is only theirs for as long as the initial product is on shelves, then people can wait to find it elsewhere later. That's a timed exclusive and McFarlane has that with a few retailers. Walmart had it with MOTU origins. They are less profitable since exclusives are often linked to the collector market, and older fans, and while some may want it right away, others may be smart enough to know to wait to find it elsewhere, reducing how much money Walmart is making from that exclusivity. That is not the deal they agreed to with Hasbro for Soundwave. They wanted a toy you cannot find elsewhere, meaning that if fans want this product they have to buy it then and there. And if they miss out, then too bad, they'll know not to hesitate next time.
This isn't dumb, it's just business. It ensures that consumers buy it and that the item never goes on clearance, which retailers want to avoid.

I found my Netflix Soundwave in the first half of December 2020. How long ago was there even any leaked rumor of Soundwave being included in the Legacy line? Even roughly??
I'd argue that Netflix Soundwave had been long sold out and unavailable *from Walmart well before any of those rumors started circulating.
I don't recall anyone ever saying, "I'm not bothering with the NF version; I'll take my chances with Legacy Soundwave".
So as I said, Walmart got their money from having that figure mold.
If this exact same figure (with or without cassettes) would've been included in the Legacy line in the year 2022, it would've had zero impact on Walmart's sales.

I still say it was stupid of Hastak to allow that version of this character to be locked-down like it is.
IF (and this seems like a ginormous IF) a new G1-styled Soundwave (that is relatively as good as the NF version) is announced before the end of this year, then I'll take it back... I'll take back saying this was a stupid decision by Hastak.
But being that the NF version is the best non-MP, G1 version of this character since when... The original?
To make it a relatively difficult to get exclusive??
As if this figure wouldn't sell well as a regular retail release???
Come on, now...
Everyone knows this character sells... The Siege mold has already been used 4 times, and now they're pushing it out again.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Here's why: It's to ensure that you buy the figure when you see it. If the exclusivity is only theirs for as long as the initial product is on shelves, then people can wait to find it elsewhere later. That's a timed exclusive and McFarlane has that with a few retailers. Walmart had it with MOTU origins. They are less profitable since exclusives are often linked to the collector market, and older fans, and while some may want it right away, others may be smart enough to know to wait to find it elsewhere, reducing how much money Walmart is making from that exclusivity. That is not the deal they agreed to with Hasbro for Soundwave. They wanted a toy you cannot find elsewhere, meaning that if fans want this product they have to buy it then and there. And if they miss out, then too bad, they'll know not to hesitate next time.
This isn't dumb, it's just business. It ensures that consumers buy it and that the item never goes on clearance, which retailers want to avoid.

I found my Netflix Soundwave in the first half of December 2020. How long ago was there even any leaked rumor of Soundwave being included in the Legacy line? Even roughly??
I'd argue that Netflix Soundwave had been long sold out and unavailable *from Walmart well before any of those rumors started circulating.
I don't recall anyone ever saying, "I'm not bothering with the NF version; I'll take my chances with Legacy Soundwave".
So as I said, Walmart got their money from having that figure mold.
If this exact same figure (with or without cassettes) would've been included in the Legacy line in the year 2022, it would've had zero impact on Walmart's sales.

I still say it was stupid of Hastak to allow that version of this character to be locked-down like it is.
IF (and this seems like a ginormous IF) a new G1-styled Soundwave (that is relatively as good as the NF version) is announced before the end of this year, then I'll take it back... I'll take back saying this was a stupid decision by Hastak.
But being that the NF version is the best non-MP, G1 version of this character since when... The original?
To make it a relatively difficult to get exclusive??
As if this figure wouldn't sell well as a regular retail release???
Come on, now...
Everyone knows this character sells... The Siege mold has already been used 4 times, and now they're pushing it out again.

I never mentioned Siege Sounwave and am not talking about him, not sure why you are bringing him up. I am only talking about the exclusivity of Netflix Soundwave.

And yes, I do agree that it is really odd for Hasbro to make an original mold, and once of such an important character, exclusive. But it looks like it's becoming the norm rather than the exception, with Override also having a new mold and being exclusive. Maybe Walmart wants an exclusive mold and it's the only way they'll agree to carrying more redecos and the like. We don't know.

william-james88 wrote:I never mentioned Siege Sounwave and am not talking about him, not sure why you are bringing him up. I am only talking about the exclusivity of Netflix Soundwave.

And yes, I do agree that it is really odd for Hasbro to make an original mold, and once of such an important character, exclusive. But it looks like it's becoming the norm rather than the exception, with Override also having a new mold and being exclusive. Maybe Walmart wants an exclusive mold and it's the only way they'll agree to carrying more redecos and the like. We don't know.

I brought up the Siege version because its multiple uses add to the point that Soundwave is a really popular character, and so making the more desirable design an exclusive was dumb.
And what adds to the ridiculousness is in thinking that moving forward, a good company betters their product/service. The newer product(s) should be improved, rather than a digression.
Sure, the Siege version without the horrid battle damage may be better than the original.
But there's no way it's better than the NF version.

So relatively speaking, it's an understatement to say this Legacy release is a letdown.
I also want to clarify that this isn't just my opinion because of this specific character.
I'd be posting this exact same thing if this same scenario had happened with another really popular character mold like ER Starscream or ER OP.

Just a quick sidenote, I'm not even opposed to Soundwave figures having a different alt mode than a tape recorder... I LOVE spaceship alt modes... Which is part of the reason I love Kingdom Cyclonus so much, as well as part of the reason I have Jhiaxus on preorder. But man, make it decent!

And again, I get it. Yeah, it's all business. But that exclusive decision, and now Legacy Siege Soundwave being the version released in 2022, it's all poor form.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Just a quick sidenote, I'm not even opposed to Soundwave figures having a different alt mode than a tape recorder... I LOVE spaceship alt modes... Which is part of the reason I love Kingdom Cyclonus so much, as well as part of the reason I have Jhiaxus on preorder. But man, make it decent!

Had it been Cybertron Soundwave, that would have been amazing.


Transformers Cybertron Soundwave Gallery


Transformers Cybertron Soundwave Gallery

Hellscream9999 wrote:So has anyone's hotrod's broken yet? I remember there being some posts about small parts in the head or knee that were snapping, and I'm wondering if anyone here has had that happen?

A couple days late, but my brother's Hot Rod hasn't broken per say, but one of the translucent blue hinges next to his head has cracked. I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a common issue over the next couple years.

Sabrblade wrote:

Had it been Cybertron Soundwave, that would have been amazing.


Transformers Cybertron Soundwave Gallery


Transformers Cybertron Soundwave Gallery[/quote]

An updated version of this figure could have been so, so cool...
And yeah, a new mold means more costs for Hastak...
But it's difficult to think anyone would've said, "I wish this new Cybertron Soundwave was just the Siege version without battle damage".

Might be more like "we need a Soundwave in the line (Exclusives aside, Soundwave himself appeared in 2019 as a Voyager then again last year in the core class) and we can't afford another new mold."

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Here's why: It's to ensure that you buy the figure when you see it. If the exclusivity is only theirs for as long as the initial product is on shelves, then people can wait to find it elsewhere later. That's a timed exclusive and McFarlane has that with a few retailers. Walmart had it with MOTU origins. They are less profitable since exclusives are often linked to the collector market, and older fans, and while some may want it right away, others may be smart enough to know to wait to find it elsewhere, reducing how much money Walmart is making from that exclusivity. That is not the deal they agreed to with Hasbro for Soundwave. They wanted a toy you cannot find elsewhere, meaning that if fans want this product they have to buy it then and there. And if they miss out, then too bad, they'll know not to hesitate next time.
This isn't dumb, it's just business. It ensures that consumers buy it and that the item never goes on clearance, which retailers want to avoid.

I found my Netflix Soundwave in the first half of December 2020. How long ago was there even any leaked rumor of Soundwave being included in the Legacy line? Even roughly??
I'd argue that Netflix Soundwave had been long sold out and unavailable *from Walmart well before any of those rumors started circulating.
I don't recall anyone ever saying, "I'm not bothering with the NF version; I'll take my chances with Legacy Soundwave".
So as I said, Walmart got their money from having that figure mold.
If this exact same figure (with or without cassettes) would've been included in the Legacy line in the year 2022, it would've had zero impact on Walmart's sales.

I still say it was stupid of Hastak to allow that version of this character to be locked-down like it is.
IF (and this seems like a ginormous IF) a new G1-styled Soundwave (that is relatively as good as the NF version) is announced before the end of this year, then I'll take it back... I'll take back saying this was a stupid decision by Hastak.
But being that the NF version is the best non-MP, G1 version of this character since when... The original?
To make it a relatively difficult to get exclusive??
As if this figure wouldn't sell well as a regular retail release???
Come on, now...
Everyone knows this character sells... The Siege mold has already been used 4 times, and now they're pushing it out again.

I never mentioned Siege Sounwave and am not talking about him, not sure why you are bringing him up. I am only talking about the exclusivity of Netflix Soundwave.

And yes, I do agree that it is really odd for Hasbro to make an original mold, and once of such an important character, exclusive. But it looks like it's becoming the norm rather than the exception, with Override also having a new mold and being exclusive. Maybe Walmart wants an exclusive mold and it's the only way they'll agree to carrying more redecos and the like. We don't know.

I feel that I should mention Walmart has had Hasbro over a barrel for quite some time, ever since the GI Joe Rise of Cobra line sold so poorly. I wouldn't be surprised that Walmart has told Hasbro that if you want your product, let alone Transformers in our stores you give us exclusive molds.

And Walmart doesn't care that you can't buy their exclusive mold for five years or whatever, they care that you can't buy their exclusive mold at Target, either as part of an normal retail line or a new exclusive that Walmart then can't sell. Besides that Walmart has four exclusive Transformers lines planned for 2022 (Beast Wars reissues and Legacy, RED and Velocitron), even if they wanted to rerelease the Netflix mold again there's not a lot space for them, not this year anyway. I do wonder if Hasbro could make more just for Pulse, but if they could they probably would have by now.

Just know that this bodes poorly for the upcoming Goldbug figure which most certainly wont be a VW bug at all being part of a Target exclusive box set.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:And Walmart doesn't care that you can't buy their exclusive mold for five years or whatever, they care that you can't buy their exclusive mold at Target, either as part of an normal retail line or a new exclusive that Walmart then can't sell. Besides that Walmart has four exclusive Transformers lines planned for 2022 (Beast Wars reissues and Legacy, RED and Velocitron), even if they wanted to rerelease the Netflix mold again there's not a lot space for them, not this year anyway. I do wonder if Hasbro could make more just for Pulse, but if they could they probably would have by now.

Just know that this bodes poorly for the upcoming Goldbug figure which most certainly wont be a VW bug at all being part of a Target exclusive box set.

Emerje

I'd assumed that was the case anyway, best way to manage expectations.

So if they aren't going to do a new Soundwave mold for SS'86. What about the Cassettes? Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Ratbat & Laserbeak all featured in The Movie. Surely they could release them as a boxset for this line?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:So if they aren't going to do a new Soundwave mold for SS'86. What about the Cassettes? Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Ratbat & Laserbeak all featured in The Movie. Surely they could release them as a boxset for this line?

They'll probably get core class releases, which was a point of discussion a few pages earlier.

I see. It's weird that Spike (and technically, Daniel) were a part of this line before the first onscreen Decepticon.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I see. It's weird that Spike (and technically, Daniel) were a part of this line before the first onscreen Decepticon.

Why? They aren't going by screen order in any way whatsoever.

I just mean in terms of popularity and demand. Surely more fans out there would buy a new rendition of Laserbeak as a solo release, over Spike Witwicky? I imagine many would have thought Spike was due to come with someone else, as an accessory ala Daniel.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I just mean in terms of popularity and demand. Surely more fans out there would buy a new rendition of Laserbeak as a solo release, over Spike Witwicky? I imagine many would have thought Spike was due to come with someone else, as an accessory ala Daniel.

I mean, I would buy both?

As it stands, Rumble is a rumored figure for SS86. Which is definitely going to be annoying when he's blue and not red, but I digress. If Rumble is coming, I would think Laserbeak has a better than good chance of being made. Then, I can complain about them dissing Buzzsaw again.