Five Page Preview of IDW Beast Wars #9

That dialogue almost seems to be mocking the plot of The Agenda. It isn't really a good idea to poke fun at something of higher quality.

Speaking of which, after last issue, I really need to stop reading the letters page. Someone comparing the dialogue of Dinobot in this to Code of Hero. Which there isn't even a subjective comparison to be made. It just reads as "tell us you're a shill, without telling us you're a shill".

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That dialogue almost seems to be mocking the plot of The Agenda. It isn't really a good idea to poke fun at something of higher quality.

To be fair, the characters in the show called Megatron's plan "madness" too.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That dialogue almost seems to be mocking the plot of The Agenda. It isn't really a good idea to poke fun at something of higher quality.

To be fair, the characters in the show called Megatron's plan "madness" too.

True. But Megs himself rationalised it as: 'The ultimate risk... for the ultimate prize!' He knew what was at stake. But the benefits outweighed the potential drawbacks.

Always lamented the backtrack on that cliffhanger. Season 3 could have been so much more interesting. Set within a dystopian, alternate future

Would have been hard to sell the toys that were already in production at that point though

I don't mind them poking fun at it. Might mean they're making more changes then we think.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That dialogue almost seems to be mocking the plot of The Agenda. It isn't really a good idea to poke fun at something of higher quality.

To be fair, the characters in the show called Megatron's plan "madness" too.

True. But Megs himself rationalised it as: 'The ultimate risk... for the ultimate prize!' He knew what was at stake. But the benefits outweighed the potential drawbacks.

Yet, he admitted to himself the enormity of what it entailed and, in his hesitance, held off going through with it until all of his other options were exhausted.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Always lamented the backtrack on that cliffhanger. Season 3 could have been so much more interesting. Set within a dystopian, alternate future

We got that dystopian future. It was called Beast Machines.

Sabrblade wrote:Yet, he admitted to himself the enormity of what it entailed and, in his hesitance, held off going through with it until all of his other options were exhausted.

If not for Blackarachnia, it might have paid off too.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Always lamented the backtrack on that cliffhanger. Season 3 could have been so much more interesting. Set within a dystopian, alternate future

We got that dystopian future. It was called Beast Machines.

Touché

ZeroWolf wrote:Would have been hard to sell the toys that were already in production at that point though

To be fair, looking at how different the TM 2 line was. It wouldn't have been too far a leap to assume that was the "alternate" cast of Season 3. There was no Primal in that line, after all.

ZeroWolf wrote:I don't mind them poking fun at it. Might mean they're making more changes then we think.

Cynically, I'd say that is a nod to the fans. With a realisation this series won't last long enough to reach that point.

Only IDW would know that, unless they make their sales figures public.

Oh dear, we're back to "this" type of aesthetics now, are we? Perhaps this is the "dystopian" future mentioned in a post or two above?

Indeed. I just sighed when I saw the preview. The idea I opted for a while back IE a different artist per arc, could have been a much better way to go. Unfortunately, instead, we are back to Beast Wars Roar

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Yet, he admitted to himself the enormity of what it entailed and, in his hesitance, held off going through with it until all of his other options were exhausted.

If not for Blackarachnia, it might have paid off too.

He would have been better off not going through with it. The future without the timestorm ever happening at all would have yielded him a better conquest of Cybertron, this time with Predacons instead of Vehicons, and which would have lasted for years with Predacons hunting down and executing hapless Maximals before they'd finally give a more concerted fightback years after Megatron took over. Megatron's timestorm in the past changed all that and resulted in the Vehicon-takeover and Spark War instead.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To be fair, looking at how different the TM 2 line was. It wouldn't have been too far a leap to assume that was the "alternate" cast of Season 3. There was no Primal in that line, after all.

There is no way Mainframe would have taken the existing cast they spent two seasons developing and discarded them for all-new people. Especially since that would have required creating completely brand new CG models for everyone when they were trying to save every buck they could when making the ones they already had (Tigatron and Blackarachnia being modified from Cheetor and Tarantulas, Ravage being modified from TM Cheetor w/ Tigatron's head, etc.).

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Cynically, I'd say that is a nod to the fans. With a realisation this series won't last long enough to reach that point.

In that interview I mentioned Burnham saying that Razorbeast was originally gonna be someone else that Hasbro vetoed, Burnham also revealed that the Ark and its occupants are currently "not on the table" for this series.

Sabrblade wrote: Megatron's timestorm in the past changed all that and resulted in the Vehicon-takeover and Spark War instead.

Which he would have won, if had just killed Primal & co outright. When he first took control of Cybertron.

Sabrblade wrote:There is no way Mainframe would have taken the existing cast they spent two seasons developing and discarded them for all-new people. Especially since that would have required creating completely brand new CG models for everyone when they were trying to save every buck they could when making the ones they already had (Tigatron and Blackarachnia being modified from Cheetor and Tarantulas, Ravage being modified from TM Cheetor w/ Tigatron's head, etc.).

The eternal noose around the show's neck - the budget. Hence no Coneheads for the Nemesis finale.

Sabrblade wrote:Burnham also revealed that the Ark and its occupants are currently "not on the table" for this series.

That would lead me to believe this series has a predefined length of time attached to it, assigned by Hasbro. Given the Beast Wars show narrative pivoted entirely in that direction for Season Two.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That would lead me to believe this series has a predefined length of time attached to it, assigned by Hasbro. Given the Beast Wars show narrative pivoted entirely in that direction for Season Two.

Twelve issues is the current plan, with more to come should the series do well enough.

Oh I see, one more arc I imagine? If only 12 ends up being the case, a third artist would have been a really good idea.

Was there any clues to who the vetoed character was?

ZeroWolf wrote:Was there any clues to who the vetoed character was?

No clue. Burnham wasn't allowed to say who it was nor what their beast mode was since that would have given away its identity.

The only BW character that comes to mind that I could see Hasbro putting their foot down on is BW Grimlock, but it's fun to wonder if it could have been someone without any ties to G1.

I guess we'll have to see what kind of role Razorbeast plays. If he emerges from his pod a newly born Maximal, that'll make it harder to figure out who he replaced. But if he emerges as a preexisting person from Cybertron who was put into stasis, that might make it easier.

I see, thanks Sabrblade. In some cases, if the comic survives past 12, it'd be good to see more toy only characters. There shouldn't be that many that hasbro say no to, other then the magnaboss combiner of course, if the bw grimlock theory holds true.

We did get Magnaboss Ironhide in the first issue.

Sabrblade wrote:We did get Magnaboss Ironhide in the first issue.

I did mean more of the ongoing cast.

Glad to see Burcham back, love his art.

I'm hoping the 1st TPB comes out soon. I am eager to actually read the whole first arc proper

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Always lamented the backtrack on that cliffhanger. Season 3 could have been so much more interesting. Set within a dystopian, alternate future

We got that dystopian future. It was called Beast Machines.

pic

Touché

In fact, now that I think about it, if one were to jump immediately from watching "The Agenda (Part III)" to "The Reformatting" and "Master of the House", that would kinda feel like history was rewritten, with only Blackarachnia being chummy with the Maximals and Megatron's dragon mode unexplained but which be written off as part of the history rewrite.

Of course, later episodes directly calling back to BW season 3 ruin this, but still.

I see they went back to the horrible art.

I thought the change to the much better style was permanent?

Triggerdick Megatron wrote:I see they went back to the horrible art.

I thought the change to the much better style was permanent?

I personally love Burcham's style. It brings something different to the table and adds dynamicism to the characters' movements. It lends the book its own identity. Plus, Burcham draws the best faces. They're so expressive and fun!

IHaveQuestions wrote:

Triggerdick Megatron wrote:I see they went back to the horrible art.

I thought the change to the much better style was permanent?

I personally love the inane scribblings of three year-olds. They bring something different to the table and add dynamicism to the characters' movements. They lend the book its own identity. Plus, little kids draw the best faces with thick, unwieldy pastels. They're so expressive and fun!

Fixed it for you.

primalxconvoy wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

Triggerdick Megatron wrote:I see they went back to the horrible art.

I thought the change to the much better style was permanent?

I personally love the inane scribblings of three year-olds. They bring something different to the table and add dynamicism to the characters' movements. They lend the book its own identity. Plus, little kids draw the best faces with thick, unwieldy pastels. They're so expressive and fun!

Fixed it for you.

There's no accounting for taste, I suppose.

Taste is pretty much subjective, personally, I love his art as well.

Indeed. While at the same time, just because you like something, doesn't mean it's good. Especially when it comes to this art on an objective level.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Indeed. While at the same time, just because you like something, doesn't mean it's good. Especially when it comes to this art on an objective level.

Even then I doubt you'll get consensus. I mean, look at modern art, or something I recently learned about in the NFT thread, invisible art. You may not care for this style but it doesn't make it bad. It just means it doesn't do anything for you. The ultimate decider on the art will be when IDW look at sales data, which will be very soon.

ZeroWolf wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Indeed. While at the same time, just because you like something, doesn't mean it's good. Especially when it comes to this art on an objective level.

You may not care for this style but it doesn't make it bad.

As I said, objectively, this art is bad. In terms of panelling, composition, anatomy, scaling, perspective etc IE All the important arty-farty bits a professional should be trained in. Even genuinely stylised comic book art at least follows the basics.

I'm pretty sure IDW themselves would disagree with that.

I doubt that. The general metric for the talent of the last few years seems either inexperienced and/or cheap.

I like how Blackarachnia isn't open to taking any lip from Terrorsaur.

It reminded me of how much more interesting a character Blackarachnia was, in Season One. Before she was diluted into "love interest".

This art aint got nothing on John Romita Jr

william-james88 wrote:This art aint got nothing on John Romita Jr

Given their output since IDWverse 2.0, ironically I imagine even JRJR and Rob Liefeld are likely out of IDW's price range

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:JRJR

Jar Jar?

Just read #9. An interesting character piece. Razorbeast is very likable and I'm very glad that he was not killed off. Hope to see more of him interacting with more of the main cast in forthcoming issues.

Yep, as something new, I liked the approach to Razorbeast in this issue. Unlike the return of the Graffiti Vok.
I assume Razorbeast was part of the BW2/Neo series. But I only previously knew of him in media from The Gathering/Ascending (wherein he seemed a bit too generic).

If this series does end in 12 issues, however. The main positive for me would be that Skold and Nyx are cast into obscurity, toyless, where they belong.

Once more, on the art front...

It is so sad we go from this sublime cover art by Alex Milne :


To, perhaps the worst Beast Mode so far...


Perspective? Hello?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I assume Razorbeast was part of the BW2/Neo series.

He was a Wave 1 Hasbro toy.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I assume Razorbeast was part of the BW2/Neo series.

He was a Wave 1 Hasbro toy.

I assumed he was part of the BW2/Neo series, based on his prevalence and importance in The Gathering/Ascending. I had the original figure.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I assume Razorbeast was part of the BW2/Neo series.

He was a Wave 1 Hasbro toy.

I assumed he was part of the BW2/Neo series, based on his prevalence and importance in The Gathering/Ascending. I had the original figure.

His importance in those comics was purely Furman picking some non-show character and making them important, like what he did for Thunderwing and Bludgeon back in Marvel G1. It's a thing that Furman was known for doing.

While yes, his toy was released in Japan redecoed in gold as the Beast Wars Neo character Randy (one of the most notorious, self-destructive victims of GPS ever), but he was only ever a single-episode guest star and very one-dimensional. 99% of the Western fandom hadn't even seen Randy's episode (let alone the majority of either JBW cartoon) back when The Gathering/Ascending came out. Nobody gives a hoot about Randy as a character.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I assume Razorbeast was part of the BW2/Neo series.

He was a Wave 1 Hasbro toy.

I thought the op was referring to the fictional appearance of th character, not the toy

Sabrblade wrote:His importance in those comics was purely Furman picking some non-show character and making them important, like what he did for Thunderwing and Bludgeon back in Marvel G1. It's a thing that Furman was known for doing.

While yes, his toy was released in Japan redecoed in gold as the Beast Wars Neo character Randy (one of the most notorious, self-destructive victims of GPS ever), but he was only ever a single-episode guest star and very one-dimensional. 99% of the Western fandom hadn't even seen Randy's episode (let alone the majority of either JBW cartoon) back when The Gathering/Ascending came out. Nobody gives a hoot about Randy as a character.

All these years and I assumed Razorbeast featured because he meant something to the Japanese series. Furman's character choices for The Gathering/Ascending continue to be infuriating...

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:All these years and I assumed Razorbeast featured because he meant something to the Japanese series. Furman's character choices for The Gathering/Ascending continue to be infuriating...

Japan mainly only cares about Lio Convoy when it comes to the JBW-original characters.

As for Furman, it's just what he did in Transformers fiction. Take nobodies and try to turn them into somebodies.

Well, that, and give spotlight to Grimlock. He loves Grimlock (crafty comics Grimlock, not dumb caveman cartoon Grimlock).

Oh yeah, Furman has always had his favourites. From the Part Work, I know he couldn't think higher of Grimlock or Galvatron in the Marvel run. To a lesser extent in the -Ations run too.

As per The Gathering/Ascending, there were so many (relegated to visual cameos) that would have been more interesting to use than a Warthog... Sigh

So Beast Wars must have sold well, it's going past #12. Good that it's succeeded.

Hopefully involving a creative team change.

Nope, same team. IDW probably don't see a reason to mix up the staff if sales are strong

ZeroWolf wrote:Nope, same team. IDW probably don't see a reason to mix up the staff if sales are strong

Assuming that is mutually exclusive. Transformers as a franchise has often fell foul of people buying into anything, just to cater to their nostalgia.
Sales don't equate quality, just how many buy it.

I recently thinned out my single issue collection. Among the cull, was IDW's awful Unicron mini series and, aptly, this entire series to date. I read them through once, when they arrive and that's it. As I see no value in them, I dropped them off at a local charity shop.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:His importance in those comics was purely Furman picking some non-show character and making them important, like what he did for Thunderwing and Bludgeon back in Marvel G1. It's a thing that Furman was known for doing.

While yes, his toy was released in Japan redecoed in gold as the Beast Wars Neo character Randy (one of the most notorious, self-destructive victims of GPS ever), but he was only ever a single-episode guest star and very one-dimensional. 99% of the Western fandom hadn't even seen Randy's episode (let alone the majority of either JBW cartoon) back when The Gathering/Ascending came out. Nobody gives a hoot about Randy as a character.

All these years and I assumed Razorbeast featured because he meant something to the Japanese series. Furman's character choices for The Gathering/Ascending continue to be infuriating...

This is why Furman chose Razorbeast:

Razorbeast was more of a handy blank slate, onto which I could write a character. I already had the idea for ‘The Pack,’ a sort of covert Maximal Mission Impossible team, so it was matter of finding a suitable ‘agent.’ Razorbeast’s name (and the fact that he was one of the first BW toy releases in the US) kind of stood out for me, though I’m glad I didn’t actually see the toy (physically) until later. It might have put me off him.

He liked the name, without ever knowing what he looked like beforehand.

...

I thought "The Pack" was a BW2 thing too... Dammit, Furman