First Look at Nightbird Character Model from Transformers Rise of the Beasts

Got a couple more for you, here’s Stratosphere and Transit!




Really dig both of these! Transit in particular looks super cool!

Many fans were wondering if Wheeljack being absent from some marketting artwork meant something. Well, Takara has now revealed his movie look officially, along with our first look at Stratosphere and a brand new Terrorcon we didn't know of yet, Transit. We thank EvasionModeBumblebee for letting us know of these additions to the previously reported character models. Once again, we do not know how different this artwork will be to the final look of these characters in the film.

Stratosphere's face looks more like Wheeljack than Wheeljack's...

Transformers and uncharted xover sully…

I think Stratosphere looks cool, especially in alt-mode. Very interested in seeing what his toy'll look like if he does get one.
Transit looks interesting as well, if a bit less striking than Stratos.

Stratosphere looks awesome. He appears to take inspiration from the ROTF namesake character as well as ROTF Highbrow with that alt mode and head design. Moustache is a hilarious touch.

Looking at Wheeljack's whole design, it looks good. I'm still not too sure about the head, but within the context of the whole body it doesn't look as off-putting.

I like how Transit looks, too! Too bad there's no alt-mode picture, I can't really tell what he turns into. With a name like that I would think some sort of Taxi or something. These designs seem very lively and characterful. They all deserve some good toys, which I look forward to. It should be easy to follow them on-screen, too.

frogbat wrote:Transformers and uncharted xover sully…

Played by Mark Wahlberg, lol

Stratosphere looks like Baynus poop on a bad day. Transit looks pretty good, hope the vehicle mode is too.

While the designs for ROTB are holding onto a lot of the trends I didn't like from BB, there are a few bot designs for this one that I really like.

While I do prefer Bee's 2007 76 Camaro design to ROTB, I do like the ROTB design more than his BB look. The door wings help the look a lot, and I like the more angular leg design. It's a compromise between Bayverse and BB design that I'm ok with.

Battletrap is very nicely detailed with a cool head sculpt, I do wish his legs were bulkier but I dig it overall.

Stratosphere is a cool new take on the character, he has some nice design carry-overs from the ROTF version - he has the alt mode canopy on his forehead, and he's still a Cargo Aircraft used by the USAF. I'm not as fond of humanoid faces on Transformers, but I like the whole pilot cap thing. The way the alt mode propellor blades wrap around the engines in robot mode is cool!

Transit may be my favorite design of the bunch, I think he'd fit in really nicely in a collection of Bay Decepticons (the highest award I can bestow a Transformers design post-Bayverse). The level of detail on him is great, my only concern is that if he transforms into a Bus, much like Mirage, he doesn't seem to have a level of robot mode bulk that corresponds to that kind of alt mode.

Decidedly "meh" on Wheeljack, not because he doesn't look G1, but I'm not sold on the look yet. Might just be a bad pose for him.

I LOVE Stratosphere. Just an amazing design. The props on the back could allow for flight in robot mode.

Not sure I knew about Transit, but very sweet bot mode. Is a Lambo?

Wheeljack's design would be better off as literally someone like Perceptor or Huffer, my god how do you go from the Bumblebee design to Autobot Urkel? I ain't even saying that because of G1 (despite the inconsistency where all the other Autobots look reminiscent of classic designs even Stratosphere looks like an older man and vehicle version of his ROTF toy character with similar body proportions where the wings and cockpit end up, etc) but just by sheer downgrading his look from how he looked in the film before, why did Optimus, Bee and Arcee get to stay consistent but not him? It screams like a Lorenzo decision to make him look like Live action Donatello glasses and all much like how Que being Albert Einstein was a Spielberg call.

Nightbird's definitely cool while that Scourge render is unflattering, Optimus Primal robot mode is just Prime, love it.

Stratosphere looks pretty cool though even with the moustache I don't care that much either way for robot facial hair in the franchise, him being voice by John DiMaggio in addition to his colors and head design with goggles makes me think he's Crosshair's Grandpappy, must of taken the Paratrooper look in honor of him.

Transit looks wicked, could the head design be less insect like? Yeah, but it still looks wicked as hell and reminds me of Brimstone (the motorcycle one) from one of the movie toylines.

That also gives the leaks that talked about him by name a lot more credit although I recall the leak describing him as a School Bus and not a City one but overall it's still accurate, him being marked as a Terrocon on that wallpaper is probably more so for marketing purposes since he's apparently the only proper Decepticon in the film in addition to being this film's version of Blitzwing in being an opening hour character meant to get killed.

Whifflefire wrote:I like how Transit looks, too! Too bad there's no alt-mode picture, I can't really tell what he turns into. With a name like that I would think some sort of Taxi or something. These designs seem very lively and characterful. They all deserve some good toys, which I look forward to. It should be easy to follow them on-screen, too.

Turns into a bus like this one hence the amount of wheels, I believe this is a picture of the exact vehicle from the set.

First-Aid wrote:Decidedly "meh" on Wheeljack, not because he doesn't look G1, but I'm not sold on the look yet. Might just be a bad pose for him.

I LOVE Stratosphere. Just an amazing design. The props on the back could allow for flight in robot mode.

Not sure I knew about Transit, but very sweet bot mode. Is a Lambo?

Is a bus

Interesting that Transit has a Decepticon insignia on his head, but is marketed as a Terrorcon? Wondering if this is just for the sake of marketing consistency, or something to do with the plot.

Stormshot_Prime wrote:Interesting that Transit has a Decepticon insignia on his head, but is marketed as a Terrorcon? Wondering if this is just for the sake of marketing consistency, or something to do with the plot.

Well, remember how AOE marketed all of its bad guy robots as Decepticons when neither Lockdown nor any of the KSI Prototypes were really Decepticons in the movie.

Sabrblade wrote:

Stormshot_Prime wrote:Interesting that Transit has a Decepticon insignia on his head, but is marketed as a Terrorcon? Wondering if this is just for the sake of marketing consistency, or something to do with the plot.

Well, remember how AOE marketed all of its bad guy robots as Decepticons when neither Lockdown nor any of the KSI Prototypes were really Decepticons in the movie.

That’s a good point. In the end, Galvatron was the only true Decepticon present. My theory is that the Bots have been tracking down Decepticon scouts since the BB movie (in anticipation of a Con Armada), and perhaps this particular scout found his way to the ancient(?) faction of Terrorcons, and fell in with Scourge.

All speculation of course, but I look forward to seeing him in action either way (and maybe in toy form).

Stormshot_Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Stormshot_Prime wrote:Interesting that Transit has a Decepticon insignia on his head, but is marketed as a Terrorcon? Wondering if this is just for the sake of marketing consistency, or something to do with the plot.

Well, remember how AOE marketed all of its bad guy robots as Decepticons when neither Lockdown nor any of the KSI Prototypes were really Decepticons in the movie.

That’s a good point. In the end, Galvatron was the only true Decepticon present. My theory is that the Bots have been tracking down Decepticon scouts since the BB movie (in anticipation of a Con Armada), and perhaps this particular scout found his way to the ancient(?) faction of Terrorcons, and fell in with Scourge.

All speculation of course, but I look forward to seeing him in action either way (and maybe in toy form).

Current scuttlebutt is that Transit gets Blitzwing'd early on in the movie, remaining the only true Decepticon in the movie before getting the ax.

Deadput wrote:

Whifflefire wrote:I like how Transit looks, too! Too bad there's no alt-mode picture, I can't really tell what he turns into. With a name like that I would think some sort of Taxi or something. These designs seem very lively and characterful. They all deserve some good toys, which I look forward to. It should be easy to follow them on-screen, too.

Turns into a bus like this one hence the amount of wheels, I believe this is a picture of the exact vehicle from the set.

Ooh, that's different! Even if he turns out to be a minor role, it's cool that there could finally be a bus Transformer.

william-james88 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:Decidedly "meh" on Wheeljack, not because he doesn't look G1, but I'm not sold on the look yet. Might just be a bad pose for him.

I LOVE Stratosphere. Just an amazing design. The props on the back could allow for flight in robot mode.

Not sure I knew about Transit, but very sweet bot mode. Is a Lambo?

Is a bus

Does he come with bubblegum stuck to his feet?

Whifflefire wrote:

Deadput wrote:

Whifflefire wrote:I like how Transit looks, too! Too bad there's no alt-mode picture, I can't really tell what he turns into. With a name like that I would think some sort of Taxi or something. These designs seem very lively and characterful. They all deserve some good toys, which I look forward to. It should be easy to follow them on-screen, too.

Turns into a bus like this one hence the amount of wheels, I believe this is a picture of the exact vehicle from the set.

Ooh, that's different! Even if he turns out to be a minor role, it's cool that there could finally be a bus Transformer.

Maybe he survives....



...until Bonecrusher, that is...

I have came to terms very long ago, with the fact, that the live action movies and movie designs are not made for me. With the exception of the first 4 minutes of Bumblebee, then Bee himself in it. Transit is kinda cool looking though and I dont remember ever having a bus alt mode, so that is something. Also Prime, Primal and Bee look real good.

Stormshot_Prime wrote:Interesting that Transit has a Decepticon insignia on his head, but is marketed as a Terrorcon? Wondering if this is just for the sake of marketing consistency, or something to do with the plot.

Weren't the terrorcons initially described as a third faction made up of bots that started as either Decepticon or Autobot?

Nightbird being a Decepticon defector is something I recall from somewhere so it's possible that also applies to other Terrocons but we'll see.

Remember, the Battletrap render on his toy's box has him with a Decepticon symbol on his head, so Transit and Battletrap both have clear con symbols on them but are marketed as Terrorcons. Just something to chew on, I believe the Terrorcons are former decepticons myself.

As for the renders, there is some really cool stuff going on here that really tickles my taste buds.

Stratosphere looking like a older version of his RotF self is a really nice carryover, and convincing to me that they are the same character. I love his design, he is faultless. Plus, his wings seem to become most of his arms, which is real neat.

Transit looks freaky and I love it, especially as a bus-former. I hope he gets a toy.

Wheeljack looks good, I am a big fan of that design. I love the seatbelts as suspenders look! His design looks good, and is one of my 4 favorites so far along with Stratosphere, Battletrap, and Primal.

Speaking of, Primal's robot mode looks nice and sharp, I love it! They did him good!

Nightbird looks nice too, I love how she looks. I am particularly liking her headsculpt and wingpack

With the Transformers Rise of the Beasts toys released at retail now, we have images of the character models on the boxes and some are new. Like these two of Nightbird and Wheeljack, two bots which we didn't see much of in the marketing so far.

Nightbird looks like a Star Wars villain.

Sabrblade wrote:Nightbird looks like a Star Wars villain.

I was thinking more of someone from Thanos' crew

Is it just me, or am I the only one who has an allergy towards ALL the human faces they have nowadays?
Wheeljack wearing glasses, some old robots having moustaches or beards etc??

Come on... since when do machines need these crazy human stuff on their face?

It's been going on since like Transformers Prime I believe... all these cute faces and such.
It takes away the essence of robots in my opinion, totally ruined it for me ever since.

Nemesis_1982 wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who has an allergy towards ALL the human faces they have nowadays?
Wheeljack wearing glasses, some old robots having moustaches or beards etc??

Come on... since when do machines need these crazy human stuff on their face?

It's been going on since like Transformers Prime I believe... all these cute faces and such.
It takes away the essence of robots in my opinion, totally ruined it for me ever since.

Actually...it's being going on since G1 both Alpha Trion and Scourge are rocking beards and moustaches. We've had almost 40 years of designs so I'm not surprised to see them exploring more in this space.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Nemesis_1982 wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who has an allergy towards ALL the human faces they have nowadays?
Wheeljack wearing glasses, some old robots having moustaches or beards etc??

Come on... since when do machines need these crazy human stuff on their face?

It's been going on since like Transformers Prime I believe... all these cute faces and such.
It takes away the essence of robots in my opinion, totally ruined it for me ever since.

Actually...it's being going on since G1 both Alpha Trion and Scourge are rocking beards and moustaches. We've had almost 40 years of designs so I'm not surprised to see them exploring more in this space.

Well, these bots are able to alter themselves as they see fit. Why not let them change their appearance at will?

"I'm tired of the lighty things on the side of my face when I talk...Imma go with something different for a change" (concentrates hard...face changes)

If only it were that easy for all of us. Having someone else do it (plastic surgery) doesn't always end well...(Madonna)

First-Aid wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Nemesis_1982 wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who has an allergy towards ALL the human faces they have nowadays?
Wheeljack wearing glasses, some old robots having moustaches or beards etc??

Come on... since when do machines need these crazy human stuff on their face?

It's been going on since like Transformers Prime I believe... all these cute faces and such.
It takes away the essence of robots in my opinion, totally ruined it for me ever since.

Actually...it's being going on since G1 both Alpha Trion and Scourge are rocking beards and moustaches. We've had almost 40 years of designs so I'm not surprised to see them exploring more in this space.

Well, these bots are able to alter themselves as they see fit. Why not let them change their appearance at will?

"I'm tired of the lighty things on the side of my face when I talk...Imma go with something different for a change" (concentrates hard...face changes)

If only it were that easy for all of us. Having someone else do it (plastic surgery) doesn't always end well...(Madonna)

There should be a scene in future media where a Transformer does a head swap without the need of a Headmaster partner.

Quantum Surge wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Nemesis_1982 wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who has an allergy towards ALL the human faces they have nowadays?
Wheeljack wearing glasses, some old robots having moustaches or beards etc??

Come on... since when do machines need these crazy human stuff on their face?

It's been going on since like Transformers Prime I believe... all these cute faces and such.
It takes away the essence of robots in my opinion, totally ruined it for me ever since.

Actually...it's being going on since G1 both Alpha Trion and Scourge are rocking beards and moustaches. We've had almost 40 years of designs so I'm not surprised to see them exploring more in this space.

Well, these bots are able to alter themselves as they see fit. Why not let them change their appearance at will?

"I'm tired of the lighty things on the side of my face when I talk...Imma go with something different for a change" (concentrates hard...face changes)

If only it were that easy for all of us. Having someone else do it (plastic surgery) doesn't always end well...(Madonna)

There should be a scene in future media where a Transformer does a head swap without the need of a Headmaster partner.

Look no further than 1998:

Sabrblade wrote:

Quantum Surge wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Nemesis_1982 wrote:Is it just me, or am I the only one who has an allergy towards ALL the human faces they have nowadays?
Wheeljack wearing glasses, some old robots having moustaches or beards etc??

Come on... since when do machines need these crazy human stuff on their face?

It's been going on since like Transformers Prime I believe... all these cute faces and such.
It takes away the essence of robots in my opinion, totally ruined it for me ever since.

Actually...it's being going on since G1 both Alpha Trion and Scourge are rocking beards and moustaches. We've had almost 40 years of designs so I'm not surprised to see them exploring more in this space.

Well, these bots are able to alter themselves as they see fit. Why not let them change their appearance at will?

"I'm tired of the lighty things on the side of my face when I talk...Imma go with something different for a change" (concentrates hard...face changes)

If only it were that easy for all of us. Having someone else do it (plastic surgery) doesn't always end well...(Madonna)

There should be a scene in future media where a Transformer does a head swap without the need of a Headmaster partner.

Look no further than 1998:

Yup! That's just prime!

My reasoning is that if they can reformat themselves at will (see TF4 with Prime rescanning and changing on the road), why not facial features?

I believe this confirms that during the delay, Paramount/SkyDance did use thte time to upgrade the CGI.

The statues are going on a world tour

It has already started, but there is still some time to see them.

Interesting. Hope they invested significant time in script rewrites and the character development.

Fortress_Maximus wrote:Interesting. Hope they invested significant time in script rewrites and the character development.

Not a chance, if we go by the director's previous remarks. It's gonna be hot garbage on screen.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Fortress_Maximus wrote:Interesting. Hope they invested significant time in script rewrites and the character development.

Not a chance, if we go by the director's previous remarks. It's gonna be hot garbage on screen.

Is there anyone on this site more cynical than you, RP?

First-Aid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Fortress_Maximus wrote:Interesting. Hope they invested significant time in script rewrites and the character development.

Not a chance, if we go by the director's previous remarks. It's gonna be hot garbage on screen.

Is there anyone on this site more cynical than you, RP?

I'm just conditioned to have low expectations when it comes to the live action stuff. It's definitely been more miss than hit. Add to it what I've read so far regarding the story, and this thing is DOA. It'll probably look good though. But like the saying goes, it's gonna be all sizzle, no steak.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Fortress_Maximus wrote:Interesting. Hope they invested significant time in script rewrites and the character development.

Not a chance, if we go by the director's previous remarks. It's gonna be hot garbage on screen.

Is there anyone on this site more cynical than you, RP?

I'm just conditioned to have low expectations when it comes to the live action stuff. It's definitely been more miss than hit. Add to it what I've read so far regarding the story, and this thing is DOA. It'll probably look good though. But like the saying goes, it's gonna be all sizzle, no steak.

I guess I'm less picky. I enjoy everything new. And I'm not a big fan of expectations with any movies. I don't want the movies to conform to anything, like canon or whatnot. I just want to have fun.

Incidentally, the new D and D movie was a HUGE pile of fun. They NAILED it. It actually felt like my old gaming groups, right down to ridiculous plans that either work despite everyone's worst effort or they fail spectacularly. Plus there was a fat dragon. That was awesome.

First-Aid wrote:I guess I'm less picky. I enjoy everything new.

Even the following when each of them were first new?

• Beast Machines
• The Energon cartoon
• Kiss Players
• The Combiner Wars cartoon
• The Titans Return cartoon
• The Power of the Primes cartoon
• The Siege cartoon
• The Earthrise cartoon

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:I guess I'm less picky. I enjoy everything new.

Even the following when each of them were first new?

• Beast Machines
• The Energon cartoon
• Kiss Players
• The Combiner Wars cartoon
• The Titans Return cartoon
• The Power of the Primes cartoon
• The Siege cartoon
• The Earthrise cartoon

Actually, yeah. I had fun with all of them. Yes, there were some that I enjoyed less (Energon), and I did not get into the Kiss Players at all. I have not seen the Earthspark cartoon yet...waiting to "rent" the DVD; not shelling out for ANOTHER flippin streaming service. Maybe I'm easily amused, but the more new there is, the more I like it. That's probably why I'm so burned out on G1 Redux and Generations and continuously re-doing those characters. It's cool to see those figures again, but they keep redoing the same core characters (not just Prime and Megs). The movies are completely different takes, which is refreshing. I enjoy that.

To each his/her own. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of new product along with probably millions of others, otherwise the franchise would lose steam and get less funding from and attention by Hasbro. For every 1 fan like me, there are probably 10 like you, so I'm not worried. I'll just try to get interested in the next project. Just because IMO the new movie will be a steaming pile of ape excrement, doesn't mean the next project (whether it be a show, comic, movie or toyline) won't be good.

Rodimus Prime wrote:To each his/her own. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of new product along with probably millions of others, otherwise the franchise would lose steam and get less funding from and attention by Hasbro. For every 1 fan like me, there are probably 10 like you, so I'm not worried. I'll just try to get interested in the next project. Just because IMO the new movie will be a steaming pile of ape excrement, doesn't mean the next project (whether it be a show, comic, movie or toyline) won't be good.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

TransTech.

First-Aid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:To each his/her own. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of new product along with probably millions of others, otherwise the franchise would lose steam and get less funding from and attention by Hasbro. For every 1 fan like me, there are probably 10 like you, so I'm not worried. I'll just try to get interested in the next project. Just because IMO the new movie will be a steaming pile of ape excrement, doesn't mean the next project (whether it be a show, comic, movie or toyline) won't be good.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

TransTech.

Would have happened if more people had liked and accepted Beast Machines just the way it was, instead of whining and claiming that it "ruined Beast Wars FOREVER!!"

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:To each his/her own. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of new product along with probably millions of others, otherwise the franchise would lose steam and get less funding from and attention by Hasbro. For every 1 fan like me, there are probably 10 like you, so I'm not worried. I'll just try to get interested in the next project. Just because IMO the new movie will be a steaming pile of ape excrement, doesn't mean the next project (whether it be a show, comic, movie or toyline) won't be good.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

TransTech.

Would have happened if more people had liked and accepted Beast Machines just the way it was, instead of whining and claiming that it "ruined Beast Wars FOREVER!!"

I think that was when the serious whininess of the fandom began. I remember the whole Trukk not Munkey thing, but that was when people started acting like entitled little turds. Beast Machines is my wife's second favorite TF series (Prime is her fave). She felt like she was a able to connect with the characters more.

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:To each his/her own. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of new product along with probably millions of others, otherwise the franchise would lose steam and get less funding from and attention by Hasbro. For every 1 fan like me, there are probably 10 like you, so I'm not worried. I'll just try to get interested in the next project. Just because IMO the new movie will be a steaming pile of ape excrement, doesn't mean the next project (whether it be a show, comic, movie or toyline) won't be good.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

TransTech.

Would have happened if more people had liked and accepted Beast Machines just the way it was, instead of whining and claiming that it "ruined Beast Wars FOREVER!!"

I think that was when the serious whininess of the fandom began. I remember the whole Trukk not Munkey thing, but that was when people started acting like entitled little turds. Beast Machines is my wife's second favorite TF series (Prime is her fave). She felt like she was a able to connect with the characters more.

The Car Robots toyline also being out at the same time in Japan and appealing to the Western fandom's Geewun nostalgia certainly didn't help things for Beast Machines.

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:To each his/her own. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of new product along with probably millions of others, otherwise the franchise would lose steam and get less funding from and attention by Hasbro. For every 1 fan like me, there are probably 10 like you, so I'm not worried. I'll just try to get interested in the next project. Just because IMO the new movie will be a steaming pile of ape excrement, doesn't mean the next project (whether it be a show, comic, movie or toyline) won't be good.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

TransTech.

Would have happened if more people had liked and accepted Beast Machines just the way it was, instead of whining and claiming that it "ruined Beast Wars FOREVER!!"

I think that was when the serious whininess of the fandom began. I remember the whole Trukk not Munkey thing, but that was when people started acting like entitled little turds. Beast Machines is my wife's second favorite TF series (Prime is her fave). She felt like she was a able to connect with the characters more.

The Car Robots toyline also being out at the same time in Japan and appealing to the Western fandom's Geewun nostalgia certainly didn't help things for Beast Machines.

Agreed. Anyone who didn't like Beast Machines can take it up with my wife. We'll all attend the wake...

First-Aid wrote:Anyone who didn't like Beast Machines can take it up with my wife.

Feel free to show this post to Mrs. Aid.

As a big fan of Beast Wars, I was disappointed in Beast Machines. I didn't like the character designs, most of the characters themselves, or their development through the story. They got a couple of things right, such as Megatron and his dynamic with Optimus, as well as the ending of the story. But I felt I had to sit through too much junk time and story to get to it. I watched it once in 2009, don't care to see it ever again.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

First-Aid wrote:Anyone who didn't like Beast Machines can take it up with my wife.

Feel free to show this post to Mrs. Aid.

As a big fan of Beast Wars, I was disappointed in Beast Machines. I didn't like the character designs, most of the characters themselves, or their development through the story. They got a couple of things right, such as Megatron and his dynamic with Optimus, as well as the ending of the story. But I felt I had to sit through too much junk time and story to get to it. I watched it once in 2009, don't care to see it ever again.

She says...well, I'm not going to repeat what she said. It's impolite. Let's say it involved a garden hose, a horse, a dinosaur-sized pile of excrement, a branding iron, and a body orifice

My wife rocks.

Besides, the complaints about Beast Machines that killed Transtech were the ones given in 2000. Complaints about Beast Machines that were given in 2009 are irrelevant in this context.