Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22

Wednesday, August 8th, 2018 3:35AM CDT

Categories: Comic Book News, Reviews, Site Articles
Posted by: Va'al Views: 29,446

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Hand it over
(Spoiler free-ish)

Synopsis
The final battle begins—and when it’s over, nothing will be the same. Everything that Lost Light—and More Than Meets The Eye before it—has thrown at you, from the biggest plot twist to the smallest incidental detail, has been leading to this: all your favorites, arm-in-arm, hand-in-hand, ready to go out in style.

Abraham Dante Munson

Story
Crucible continues, and we find ourselves following on from precisely where we left off last issue, with its ending leading directly into this opening, meaning that our efforts to keep spoilers to a minimum are taking even more of a toll on the review writing. For this, and for reasons that will become clear, this piece will look different, as Va'al and ScottyP argue over the book instead - unlike what you might see in other places, this process actually has different views and sides!

Hat-hater and compulsive doodler.

V - First thing first, from a story perspective: I can see how this issue is technically, as a piece of ongoing serialised comics fiction, a good issue. What I personally took a problem with was how it dealt with some of its implications in light of previous criticisms I've brought into the fabric of MTMTE/LL. Specifically, its tendency to 'redeem' characters with a morally objectionable past and track record. A point which you disagree with.

S - New information, especially when it was not known by dead characters before they died doesn't redeem them, at least not to me. Getaway's methods were still a step too far and Scorponok was being subversive even without knowing what he might have accidentally been helping. One of the themes throughout the series is about knowing when to empathize with a character and their decisions as opposed to sympathizing with them. Understanding and forgiveness are different lanes on the same highway, but one of them can still be a breakdown lane if that's what's called for. This issue of Lost Light hits that point again subtly, but in the wider context of the bigger story the reiteration is enough for it to be effective here.

"You've had too many beers for stunts involving windows"

S - As is typical with Lost Light, the character moments and beats in their journeys take center stage here, though there is a nice amount of progression and revelation to be found in the larger plot to go along with that. A returning character that appeared at the end of LL 21 makes a real impression here, including a short but long-awaited moment with a former ally.

V - I definitely agree with that, given the encounters and beats we have with some of the lesser front characters, but well beloved by readers and integral to the story being told about that character. believe, in the grander scheme of things, my biggest issue is with Tyrest.

S - Tyrest's foundational character trait is that he used to be really wise and good and just but he's super broken now, to the point where Prowl has to send Getaway and Skids to take him out but they nudge-gun him into being even worse. This issue furthers the mental health analogy of his character arc even further - his mind wasn't healthy to the point of corruption, misplaced (though well intentioned) treatment made it worse, and now he's truly forgotten who he ever was. Again, I find no redemption here as we were told from the get-go that he really was a good 'bot at one point.

V - I still don't entirely buy that point, and I do think something better could've been done with the analogy - I find some of it a little questionable, though narratively appealing. He is an ethically questionable character - on par with Prowl, Prime and Megatron - by his and the story's own admission, only now to have received validation with the GA's reveals.

Just look at those hats!

S - One thing that deserves mention is the substantial payoff related to the larger story which occurs in this issue. Years of details, plotting, and planning (and Oxford commas) coalesce in ways that need to be witnessed to appreciate. For possibly the first time, it feels like the amount of questions still to be answered before the series wraps up is truly dwindling. In a way, all but probably one of these revelations was exposed in the past through some contextual clue in dialogue or in a background visual clue or possibly even by Hasbro (and this is possibly a spoiler click if you choose to accept it.)

V - I'll admit that some of the clues left since the beginning of the story, while not appearing to be directly linked until right now, and the reliance on trivia and minutiae and panel-analysing for some major plot points, has at times dampened my enthusiasm for the book. Especially of recent, as I think I've pointed out previously. And I'm sure some readers will also undoubtedly grimace at past references coming to play so many years later

S - I feel like this issue explains itself substantially enough, verbally and visually, that you will be entertained even if you forgot about these supporting details. Even if that weren't the case, leaving a trail of clues and breadcrumbs that build upon one another in fun ways is part of the identity of this series, and without that attention to detail it would be a different series. Were the back catalog some monolithic, inaccessible, and hyper-expensive ordeal this might be a detriment, but as it isn't, to cast all of the self-referential material in a negative light feels like it'd be the equivalent of admitting that you wanted to be smarter than the story, not learn from it.

V - I wouldn't cast it entirely in a negative light, as we've both been doing this sort of work with the books, but I'll stand my ground a little on this one: we had a similar appraisal but opposite reaction for Optimus Prime #21, and I wasn't too willing to let this one slide - story wise - if it weren't for what we said about the characters above.

S - Not how I'd describe my take on OP 21, but we're not here to talk about that issue, are we?

Art

V - Brendan Cahill is at the artistic helm this issue, with what is probably his most successful take on the Transformers characters yet, and for an issue with this sort of impact, we couldn't have asked for more.

S - No disagreement in this part. This is Cahill's best Transformers work ever. There is just a hint of some of the "roundness" that's bugged me about (some of) his earlier work, but he's evolved here to make it much more of a charming, Andrew Wildman-esque robotic round rather than the almost organic kind of round that I felt from some other recent issues.

V - His use of body language in particular, with the specific example of that character we mention earlier, is a testament to the development of both the artist and the character - in spite of any qualms I might personally still have about the latter.

The year is 0079 of the Universal Century

S - SPACE BATTLE! :ahem: Great use of the layout to tell a visual story that frames in and influences the other character and "mytharc" moments that are the focus of the book. There's plenty of room to make your own head-canon side stories. Maybe Riptide can boat himself through space like it's Transformers: Energon.

V - And we have an excellent chromatic guide giving us a hand in Joana Lafuente's take on the lineart, aptly giving the right spotlights and hues to the interior/exterior scenes, both in the literal and figurative sense.

Cyclonus is unmoved by these window-based antics

V - The general dialogue flow is what helps issues like this one to make the landing point of the script, and having clearly demarkated lettering - such as the one by Tom B Long, who also manages to have some font fun in the process - is what ensures something like that to work. And what is particularly appreciated, speaking to our point above, is that editorial assistance from David Mariotte was well signposted, for readers wanting to go back and check the major crumbs leading to this point.

S - I uploaded all the covers and made mention of all the creator credits in our Vector Sigma Database entry for Lost Light #22, so check that out if you'd like but be warned that the character appearance list might spoil some details! The particular cover used for this review's news post's thumbnail image is the "A" cover by Nick Roche and Josh Burcham.

Thoughts
Spoilerish ahead

V - This issue made it out, entirely by accident and par for the course for the IDW schedule, earlier than its supposed release. And what I saw in reaction to it on the internet was an outporing of emotional responses that extremely heightened my anticipation for the issue to be fully available. And I think that got in the way of my more reasoned appreciation of again, what I believe to be an otherwise very good piece of comics work, reminding me of my own difficulties with one of the underlying threads part of the MTMTE/LL narrative thread.

S - Lost Light #22 deserved a huge hype train and it got very little of an official one with the botched release timing. That said, I think the early reactions were entirely justified as countless pieces of a large puzzle suddenly clicked together here in a beautifully illustrated and written piece of science fiction. This review could never hope to properly analyze it all, especially with the attempt at spoiler avoidance, so be sure to experience it for yourself.

2012: "I'm totally Swerve, he's clever and funny!"
2018: "I'm Misfire and I have no idea what I'm doing."

Scotty [im]P[erial magistrate]'s Verdict

S - Without hyperbole, for me this was probably the most rewarding payoff in a fictional story that I've ever experienced. I was so close to being right about That One Guy, but at the same time could not have been farther away. Here's to you, eyebrows.

out of

Va'al's Verdict

V - I don't feel like repeating myself once more as to why I find it so hard to distance my personal reading filter on this issue (and the series) from the issue itself. As a book, this chapter does everything it needs to and more, more or less following its plotted path from the start, and that is impressive enough. The fact that it took two very invested people at least four days to put down thoughts on it, I think, speaks to its success as a piece of media. As for a score, however, I cannot honestly give it one. Make do with ScottyP's if you will!

Credit(s): IDW

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Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977246)
Posted by Bounti76 on August 8th, 2018 @ 4:01am CDT

Oh. My. Rung.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977263)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 8th, 2018 @ 5:37am CDT

I'm at a loss for words with this. I think that's all I can say at this point. I need to go re-read some back issues.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977278)
Posted by Ironhidensh on August 8th, 2018 @ 8:18am CDT

Ironhidensh wrote:It's never too late to achieve your childhood (or bothood) dreams.

Now that the issue is out......

Rung revelations aside, my favorite part was seeing how Megatron took his second chance and became a doctor like he once off hand mentioned.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977281)
Posted by AlphaBass on August 8th, 2018 @ 8:30am CDT

Megatron!

That is all.

Edit: Actually, you're quite right. His fusion cannon a med kit? His being dissatisfied with saving mere billions? Kinda wish we had more time with this version.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977284)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 8th, 2018 @ 8:54am CDT

By the way guys, take care with spoiler tags as they don't work when viewing the review from the front page ;-)

I think ll was my favourite of today's idw releases, followed by unicron and then op.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977294)
Posted by AlphaBass on August 8th, 2018 @ 9:42am CDT

I think OP got me more mad at OP than any other issue. "Greater good" my sine function....

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977298)
Posted by ArmadaPrime on August 8th, 2018 @ 10:15am CDT

Very good point by ZeroWolf- I'll need some time to gather my spoilery thoughts proper anyway!
Naturally, having had my previous theories utterly shot down, I'm already brewing more. The important group mentioned by the Magnificence last issue of Rodimus, Rung, Ratchet, and Tailgate is still left unsolved, and you better believe I've got a couple of Thoughts on that!
As far as the issues actual reveals go though, cripes. Some of that is incredibly obvious in hindsight, some of it is so genius that despite all the perfectly blatant clues I was still shocked, and one in particular was more of a "huh... okay, okay, I can see that... I guess...".
My only other not-completely-spoilerful thought is that this issue really leaves me jonesing for a certain, very expensive repaint to be made...

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977316)
Posted by Va'al on August 8th, 2018 @ 12:38pm CDT

Ironhidensh wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:It's never too late to achieve your childhood (or bothood) dreams.

Now that the issue is out......

Rung revelations aside, my favorite part was seeing how Megatron took his second chance and became a doctor like he once off hand mentioned.

The repair kit in there was one of my favourite parts in the pointing out the 'not going back'. That, and how hunched he looks in a lot of the scenes, body language has completely changed.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977342)
Posted by Big Grim on August 8th, 2018 @ 2:16pm CDT

Holy crap! That last page! I cannot imagine what Scotty is thinking and REALLY look forward to hearing what he has to say!

Megatron’s Fusion Cannon actually being a huge medikit with all the trimmings made me grin almost as much as page 1 made me gawp!

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977362)
Posted by snavej on August 8th, 2018 @ 3:17pm CDT

Z3ROhour wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I'll tell you what though, I think the most controversial character, in a bad way, from IDW was Star Saber though. Squeaky clean to mass murderer in the name of religion. That pissed a ton of people off

And yet...
it happens.
All the time!

Horrible things happen in the name of religion
practically every day
since the dawn of mankind.

Mankind? What about Transformerkind?!

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977381)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 8th, 2018 @ 4:38pm CDT

non-spoilerish first:

Cahill did fantastic art here!! I love his art, but this one truly nailed it. Well done!

Now for spoiler stuff:

first thing first, I am so glad they brought Megs back and what they have done with him. He's really truly changed, and I agree with Densh about how he becoming a medic was great. It was his first dream, mentioned offhand to Ratchet, and here we go, he lived up to it, and is a better one than First Aid and Velocity. Love the cannon/Med kit too.

As for the guiding hand, I am not convinced. I want to believe, but I am not convinced.

I actually think it is Rung, or another member of the crew, who gets sent back in time after witnessing the events of Functionist Cybertron and becomes the grand architect. I don't fully believe he is Adaptus yet, or that the members named are truly who they are, namely Tyrest and Rung.

I also take issue with now putting Tyrest in a good light and making him a member, even if he doesn't remember who he truly is. He's the one bothering me the most.

Rung as Primus though is awesome. I still hope it's true.

And if he is, here is how the 4 the magnificence keeps mentioning fits in: Rodimus the matrix bearer, still somehow needed for this capacity, Rung as Primus, Ratchet as the medic, and Tailgate as the muscle. That is how they will defeat Functionist Cybertron. Pretty sure the "blow up" plan is simply to get them there, and then discover what they really need to do. And they blow up the remaining functionists too.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977393)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 8th, 2018 @ 5:13pm CDT

Hmm I can see it but do we really need another fake out on the same Vein as what happened with Shockwave and the thirteen all being fake over on op? I'm more willing to believe, plus it would be silly to have another identity revealed after two previous reveals Grand Architect -> Pharma -> Adaptus -> someone else? I know pharma wasn't much of a ruse as most had guessed he was little more than a suit but still, the way the reveal was framed, it was supposed to be a shock...of sorts

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977463)
Posted by MaverickPrime on August 9th, 2018 @ 1:11am CDT

I don't understand the "Hasbro may have spoiled it" with the Prime Master, could someone please explain to me what they meant?

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977472)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 9th, 2018 @ 2:34am CDT

MaverickPrime wrote:I don't understand the "Hasbro may have spoiled it" with the Prime Master, could someone please explain to me what they meant?

Basically the Prima prime master symbol kinda looks like Rungs face, glasses and all. This is a spoiler of course as Adaptus called out Rung as Primus

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977477)
Posted by Va'al on August 9th, 2018 @ 3:16am CDT

Coming up next month (in theory) from IDW Publishing is issue #23 of the ongoing comics series Transformers: Lost Light, and with it another cover from previous collaborators on the franchise and its comic books: Geoff Senior!

Courtesy of Previews World, and notified via news staff WreckerJack, the cover has been mirrored below, and seems to follow on from the variant for issue #22 - which you can see in our database here - in which Rodimus and Megatron are 'arguing but not fighting' with this time a very fighty Tyrest and Pharma. Check it out!

(W) James Roberts (A) Jack Lawrence (CA) Geoff Senior
The final battle is here! Bots will live, bots will die, and the craziness can only increase! We're halfway through a finale six years in the making! And if you've ever loved a bot, you won't want to miss this.

In Shops: Sep 05, 2018

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977479)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 9th, 2018 @ 3:31am CDT

I can't help but notice they put the advertising on the cover about unicron yet, unless this issue ties into it, the ll finale has nothing to do with it.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977481)
Posted by Amelie on August 9th, 2018 @ 4:22am CDT

Given how long Senior has been out of comics - this cover looks leaps better than some of his Regeneration One covers, so hopefully he's more into the swing of things again.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977491)
Posted by Carnivius_Prime on August 9th, 2018 @ 7:24am CDT

Amelie wrote:Given how long Senior has been out of comics - this cover looks leaps better than some of his Regeneration One covers, so hopefully he's more into the swing of things again.

Actually I think some (not all) of his Regen One covers are far better than this one (though this one's nice too) but generally he's still a great artist and still produces TF comic art I find far more appealing than anybody else. Him actually doing several pages worth of actual comic panels was the only reason I bought that Requiem of the Wreckers (cos, like just about every other IDW G1 story I've read, the story itself did nothing for me). Many of his convention commissions are great too.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977495)
Posted by Randomhero on August 9th, 2018 @ 7:50am CDT

So can we address the elephant in the room?

The timeframe for this series. Holy crap is it bad.

This arc is taking place 4 weeks after Dying if the light which took place 3 weeks before everything else. So in one week All hail optimus, titans return, revolution, revolutionaries, first strike, the entirety of Optimus Prime, requiem of the wreckers, and till all are one took place. Also in the span of time the scavengers made time to stop off on earth during revolution.

Yeeeeeeeah umm no?

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977498)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 9th, 2018 @ 8:17am CDT

The timeline does seem very strange...can we just blame it on shock wave?

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977501)
Posted by ScottyP on August 9th, 2018 @ 8:23am CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:
MaverickPrime wrote:I don't understand the "Hasbro may have spoiled it" with the Prime Master, could someone please explain to me what they meant?

Basically the Prima prime master symbol kinda looks like Rungs face, glasses and all. This is a spoiler of course as Adaptus called out Rung as Primus

Bingo! I thought it was weird that the Prima symbol for PotP looked like a face with glasses, especially since Alchemist Prime is associated with glasses over in the Aligned continuity.

It is also possibly a coincidence and the Prima symbol is meant to evoke something else and this is just my own reading of an ink blot

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977503)
Posted by Randomhero on August 9th, 2018 @ 8:37am CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:The timeline does seem very strange...can we just blame it on shock wave?

The one thing you can probably blame on is the Warren but it still doesn’t add up when it comes to the scavengers and Fort Max and his team.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977527)
Posted by Randomhero on August 9th, 2018 @ 10:57am CDT

ScottyP wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:
MaverickPrime wrote:I don't understand the "Hasbro may have spoiled it" with the Prime Master, could someone please explain to me what they meant?

Basically the Prima prime master symbol kinda looks like Rungs face, glasses and all. This is a spoiler of course as Adaptus called out Rung as Primus
Bingo! I thought it was weird that the Prima symbol for PotP looked like a face with glasses, especially since Alchemist Prime is associated with glasses over in the Aligned continuity.

It is also possibly a coincidence and the Prima symbol is meant to evoke something else and this is just my own reading of an ink blot

I don’t see it. I always thought it looked like Primas chest.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977538)
Posted by ArmadaPrime on August 9th, 2018 @ 11:22am CDT

Okay, so as of ZeroWolf's comment, I think we're out of frontpage-spoiler territory. At least, that's what's showing on my laptop. As such, on with the latest round of my increasingly absurd theorising!

I think that the Magnificence's four key players (Rodimus, Ratchet, Rung, and Tailgate) are meant to serve as new hosts for the Guiding Hand.
I'm not sure who the fifth is- possibly Megatron, who wasn't around for the magnificence to mention last issue, or possibly Pharma/Adaptus as he's already in a new body. I'm also not sure of the assignment exactly. Rung would presumably keep Primus, Rodimus would get Solomus or Primus, Ratchet would get Adaptus or Epistimus, the others I'm not too sure about. Crucially though I think this would be a symbiotic possession rather than a parasitic one; the bots wouldn't have to die. Think less "stealing your body" and more "guardian spirit".
Now what gets interesting is that the Magnificence's four are currently split up. On the ship right now with the architect are Rod, Ratchet, Rung, Nautica, and Whirl. This kinda leads to what I think might actually happen, as a sort of altered version of the Magnificence's plan:
Rung keeps Primus
Rodimus gets Solomus
Ratchet gets Adaptus
Nautica gets Epistimus
Whirl gets Mortilus
Those assignments actually line up a lot better character-wise imo!
It's a little far-fetched, but makes sense to me at least :-P

(of course, so did my two previous nonsense LL theories. But shhhh :-$

)

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977542)
Posted by Rodimus Prime on August 9th, 2018 @ 11:30am CDT

ArmadaPrime wrote:I think that the Magnificence's four key players (Rodimus, Ratchet, Rung, and Tailgate) are meant to serve as new hosts for the Guiding Hand.
I'm not sure who the fifth is- possibly Megatron, who wasn't around for the magnificence to mention last issue, or possibly Pharma/Adaptus as he's already in a new body. I'm also not sure of the assignment exactly. Rung would presumably keep Primus, Rodimus would get Solomus or Primus, Ratchet would get Adaptus or Epistimus, the others I'm not too sure about. Crucially though I think this would be a symbiotic possession rather than a parasitic one; the bots wouldn't have to die. Think less "stealing your body" and more "guardian spirit".
Now what gets interesting is that the Magnificence's four are currently split up. On the ship right now with the architect are Rod, Ratchet, Rung, Nautica, and Whirl. This kinda leads to what I think might actually happen, as a sort of altered version of the Magnificence's plan:
Rung keeps Primus
Rodimus gets Solomus
Ratchet gets Adaptus
Nautica gets Epistimus
Whirl gets Mortilus
Those assignments actually line up a lot better character-wise imo!
It's a little far-fetched, but makes sense to me at least (of course, so did my two previous nonsense LL theories. But shhhh )

Not as far-fetched as you might think. I don't think it'll happen exactly that way, but it is a plausible theory. ;)^

And it has kind of a Jinchuriki vibe from Naruto Shippuden. :lol:

And I agree with Amelie about the cover. It looks really good, better than Senior's Regeneration One stuff. That series belonged to Guido Guidi as far as covers went.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977545)
Posted by Randomhero on August 9th, 2018 @ 11:37am CDT

ArmadaPrime wrote:Okay, so as of ZeroWolf's comment, I think we're out of frontpage-spoiler territory. At least, that's what's showing on my laptop. As such, on with the latest round of my increasingly absurd theorising!

I think that the Magnificence's four key players (Rodimus, Ratchet, Rung, and Tailgate) are meant to serve as new hosts for the Guiding Hand.
I'm not sure who the fifth is- possibly Megatron, who wasn't around for the magnificence to mention last issue, or possibly Pharma/Adaptus as he's already in a new body. I'm also not sure of the assignment exactly. Rung would presumably keep Primus, Rodimus would get Solomus or Primus, Ratchet would get Adaptus or Epistimus, the others I'm not too sure about. Crucially though I think this would be a symbiotic possession rather than a parasitic one; the bots wouldn't have to die. Think less "stealing your body" and more "guardian spirit".
Now what gets interesting is that the Magnificence's four are currently split up. On the ship right now with the architect are Rod, Ratchet, Rung, Nautica, and Whirl. This kinda leads to what I think might actually happen, as a sort of altered version of the Magnificence's plan:
Rung keeps Primus
Rodimus gets Solomus
Ratchet gets Adaptus
Nautica gets Epistimus
Whirl gets Mortilus
Those assignments actually line up a lot better character-wise imo!
It's a little far-fetched, but makes sense to me at least (of course, so did my two previous nonsense LL theories. But shhhh )

I think you’re missing the point. Yes they have some significance but it’s not about the guiding hand taking on new representatives. The guiding hands has always been those people. It’s not about passing a torch, they don’t remember who they are because of information creep.

I think a bigger possibility is those characters are the same as the guiding hand but have to be sent in time to become the guiding hand...or the Magnificance just thinks they’re important. More than likely that.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977547)
Posted by ArmadaPrime on August 9th, 2018 @ 11:49am CDT

Rodimus Prime wrote:Not as far-fetched as you might think. I don't think it'll happen exactly that way, but it is a plausible theory. And it has kind of a Jinchuriki vibe from Naruto Shippuden.

And I agree with Amelie about the cover. It looks really good, better than Senior's Regeneration One stuff. That series belonged to Guido Guido as far as covers went.

Thats exactly the kind of vibe I was meaning, yes! I was trying desperately to remember a good example of it in other fiction but you got it in one

I think the fact that Tyrest/Solomus managed to spacebridge into Adaptus' mind demonstrates that there's not only a link between them, but definitely something a little more supernatural to them than your regular bot!

And agreed, that cover is ruddy fantastic.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977549)
Posted by Dr. Caelus on August 9th, 2018 @ 12:06pm CDT

Prima Rung.jpg

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977552)
Posted by ScottyP on August 9th, 2018 @ 12:26pm CDT

^ That's a more literal connection than I'd ever (intend to) suggest

Started and ended at "glasses" for me, and I'm realizing now I probably should have left that in a discarded draft :lol:

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977596)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 9th, 2018 @ 4:03pm CDT

ArmadaPrime wrote:Okay, so as of ZeroWolf's comment, I think we're out of frontpage-spoiler territory. At least, that's what's showing on my laptop. As such, on with the latest round of my increasingly absurd theorising!

I think that the Magnificence's four key players (Rodimus, Ratchet, Rung, and Tailgate) are meant to serve as new hosts for the Guiding Hand.
I'm not sure who the fifth is- possibly Megatron, who wasn't around for the magnificence to mention last issue, or possibly Pharma/Adaptus as he's already in a new body. I'm also not sure of the assignment exactly. Rung would presumably keep Primus, Rodimus would get Solomus or Primus, Ratchet would get Adaptus or Epistimus, the others I'm not too sure about. Crucially though I think this would be a symbiotic possession rather than a parasitic one; the bots wouldn't have to die. Think less "stealing your body" and more "guardian spirit".
Now what gets interesting is that the Magnificence's four are currently split up. On the ship right now with the architect are Rod, Ratchet, Rung, Nautica, and Whirl. This kinda leads to what I think might actually happen, as a sort of altered version of the Magnificence's plan:
Rung keeps Primus
Rodimus gets Solomus
Ratchet gets Adaptus
Nautica gets Epistimus
Whirl gets Mortilus
Those assignments actually line up a lot better character-wise imo!
It's a little far-fetched, but makes sense to me at least (of course, so did my two previous nonsense LL theories. But shhhh )

You know I was wondering the same thing, but then I went further...
What if...the guiding hand aren't going anywhere, though they are missing a finger, but they need counterparts, and the magnificence's five are going to be deputised...I mean most beings have two hands right?

I'm of course dead wrong, as I some how lack the ability to fully guess what Roberts is going to do (not a bad thing).

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977868)
Posted by ArmadaPrime on August 10th, 2018 @ 6:34pm CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:You know I was wondering the same thing, but then I went further...
What if...the guiding hand aren't going anywhere, though they are missing a finger, but they need counterparts, and the magnificence's five are going to be deputised...I mean most beings have two hands right?

I'm of course dead wrong, as I some how lack the ability to fully guess what Roberts is going to do (not a bad thing).

Oooohh, I like that! Something like the Guiding Hand and the Following Hand, perhaps?
And I wouldn't worry too much about Mortilus, according to legend the Hand brought him back from death once before anyway...
I really do feel like one of our two theories has gotta be right! Naturally, I fully expect to be proven wrong within two pages of #23 :lol:

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977875)
Posted by Dr. Caelus on August 10th, 2018 @ 7:50pm CDT

Given the events in Optimus Prime, do the Thirteen exist in the Functionist universe?

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1977908)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 11th, 2018 @ 2:27am CDT

ArmadaPrime wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:You know I was wondering the same thing, but then I went further...
What if...the guiding hand aren't going anywhere, though they are missing a finger, but they need counterparts, and the magnificence's five are going to be deputised...I mean most beings have two hands right?

I'm of course dead wrong, as I some how lack the ability to fully guess what Roberts is going to do (not a bad thing).

Oooohh, I like that! Something like the Guiding Hand and the Following Hand, perhaps?
And I wouldn't worry too much about Mortilus, according to legend the Hand brought him back from death once before anyway...
I really do feel like one of our two theories has gotta be right! Naturally, I fully expect to be proven wrong within two pages of #23

still speculation is fun as well ;-)

even if the truth is something we never saw coming!

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978241)
Posted by JereRB2ND on August 13th, 2018 @ 10:37am CDT

Caelus wrote:Given the events in Optimus Prime, do the Thirteen exist in the Functionist universe?

The two universes don't diverge until Megaton's creation/death. The Thirteen had already abandoned the planet at that point. (excepting Alpha Trion). Since the Functionalists largely kept their shenanigans to Cybertron, it stands to reason that the Thirteen of this universe would be in whatever state they are in ours.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978304)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 13th, 2018 @ 12:34pm CDT

...but wait a moment...does that mean there's a second shockwave running around the functionist universe...along with a second unicron? After all those things are all fixed in place after the divergence point

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978325)
Posted by ArmadaPrime on August 13th, 2018 @ 1:06pm CDT

JereRB2ND wrote:
Caelus wrote:Given the events in Optimus Prime, do the Thirteen exist in the Functionist universe?

The two universes don't diverge until Megaton's creation/death. The Thirteen had already abandoned the planet at that point. (excepting Alpha Trion). Since the Functionalists largely kept their shenanigans to Cybertron, it stands to reason that the Thirteen of this universe would be in whatever state they are in ours.

ZeroWolf wrote:...but wait a moment...does that mean there's a second shockwave running around the functionist universe...along with a second unicron? After all those things are all fixed in place after the divergence point

I don't think, in the Functionist-U, Shockwave would have ever been subject to Empurata. With no Decepticon movement the whole drama between the Senate, Sentinel Prime, and Shockwave's Jhiaxian Institute would've gone down way differently- I think Senator Shockwave and his outliers would likely join up with Megatron's new faction somewhere down the road.
Besides, even if he had fallen victim to the Council, a post-empurata Shockwave would have no Decepticon faction to help further his plans, so I doubt the whole black-whole-time-travel gambit would ever come to pass.
Which means that the Functionist-Thirteen are actually the original Thirteen, without any of Shockwave's machinations. But we know that it's only because of Shockwave's meddling that the Thirteen's story turned out how we know it did, and so the Functionist-Thirteen would probably be nothing like the original legends of the Thirteen, and...

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978329)
Posted by Ms. Trebuchette on August 13th, 2018 @ 1:13pm CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:...but wait a moment...does that mean there's a second shockwave running around the functionist universe...along with a second unicron? After all those things are all fixed in place after the divergence point

In theory no?

Shockwave only became Onyx because the war gave him cover/need to expand Regenesis off-world. It's likely Dark Cybertron never happened in the FU and, therefore Shockwave never went back. Given that Alpha Trion is predisposed to telling stories, the 13 still became legendary figures in the FU, but maybe not religious figures.

In short, it's likely that FU Onyx Prime is just regular, old Onyx and not Everyone's Favorite Time-Traveling Furry!

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978335)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 13th, 2018 @ 1:31pm CDT

But that doesn't work as shock wave was masquerading as onyx before megs birth, which due to time travel will have created a loop in which he always ends up there some how to progress the legend of the thirteen. We've already seen duplicates created through this as there was a duplicate orion pax, so therefore, there must be an onyx wave doing who knows what...unless it's explained away that the functionist unicron got him...

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978337)
Posted by Ms. Trebuchette on August 13th, 2018 @ 1:43pm CDT

But that's my point. Shockwave's master plan had him do everything that Alpha Trion told him that Onyx Prime did/the Primes did up to a certain point. When Shockwave got picky/hasty, he always reported things to Alpha Trion exactly as he had been told them when he was younger.

In other words, I assumed that Onyx the Sheppard would have gone on to be Onyx Prime and done all the things that Shockwave did as Onyx (up until the 13 Primes left Cybertron). It's after Onyx leaves Cybertron that Shockwave changes things (on the other hand, that probably means that Unicron is running around gobbling up colonies in the FU unless Shockwave did something POST-the 13 that lead to Unicron getting big and hungry).

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978348)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 13th, 2018 @ 2:13pm CDT

But shockwave created the thirteen in established events leading up to the divergence so when brainstorm pulled the trigger and the timelines splintered a copy onyx wave was created.

As for unicron, it's also possible that he is still asleep in the fu...waiting till he's awoken...

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978355)
Posted by JereRB2ND on August 13th, 2018 @ 2:34pm CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:...but wait a moment...does that mean there's a second shockwave running around the functionist universe...along with a second unicron? After all those things are all fixed in place after the divergence point

Actually...it most likely means there's *no* Shockwave running around at this point. I went and re-read LL #3. The Functionalists came to power by putting the Senate to death 5 million years ago while Nominus was Prime. At that time, Shockwave was a senator (I think). So...he'd be dead too. Before empurata. Before shadowplay. So anything that came afterwards that depended on his individual action...didn't happen. Which means *a lot*. But I don't feel like writing a book in a forum post today.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978360)
Posted by Ms. Trebuchette on August 13th, 2018 @ 2:39pm CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:But shockwave created the thirteen in established events leading up to the divergence so when brainstorm pulled the trigger and the timelines splintered a copy onyx wave was created.

As for unicron, it's also possible that he is still asleep in the fu...waiting till he's awoken...

But I think that is a paradox. Shockwave only travels back in time because of events that occurred specifically because of the war. If there is no war, there is no expanded Regenesis program, there is no Dark Cybertron, and there is no Shockwave going back in time. I think the only way to avoid a paradox in either book is to presume there was always an Onyx that WOULD have been one of the 13 Primes. Shockwave manipulated things while posing as Onyx but let history march on unmanipulated (or at least told Alpha record it as unmanipulated) until Onyx disappears from history.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978369)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 13th, 2018 @ 3:06pm CDT

From looking back on it, it's doubtful that an original thirteen would have arisen as it was Shockwave which manipulated everything they did to match the stories he was told which he made them do because he was told that they do...Argh I hate time travel stories! Still I don't think that fu Shockwave would need to go back in time as original Shockwave does which keeps the loop intact. The fu never replaced the main universe but existed alongside it.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978450)
Posted by Rodimus Prime on August 13th, 2018 @ 8:57pm CDT

Considering Roberts' penchant for hooking up characters, I wonder if there might be a possibility that in the very end Rodimus and Megatron end up together...?

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978492)
Posted by Va'al on August 14th, 2018 @ 7:49am CDT

Out from IDW Publishing this week, though it's not a new issue, we have some Transformers: Lost Light comics reading in trade paperback form with the series' third collected volume! The full preview is offered below, for your viewing convenience, as you can finally catch up on everything happening before the current story arc if you've been waiting for the trade!

Transformers: Lost Light, Vol. 3
James Roberts (w) • Alex Milne, Brendan Cahill, Jack Lawrence (a) • Jack Lawrence (c)
Crammed into a dead Decepticon astropod that's 10 sizes too small, the displaced crew of the Lost Light faces their most serious threat yet: each other. No worries though, Rodimus can save the day! Or maybe they’ll all die... Plus, the Scavengers have never had it so good. The war is a receding memory, their patchy service records have been forgotten, and the five of them can roam the galaxy as they please. All's well that ends well? Not quite. Collects issues #13–18.
TPB • FC • $19.99 • 144 pages • ISBN: 978-1-68405-331-5

Bullet points:
Winner of the Comixology Award for Best Ongoing Comic Series of 2017 as well as Best Writer for James Roberts!

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978494)
Posted by ArmadaPrime on August 14th, 2018 @ 8:05am CDT

Hm, seeing the bit about the Necrobot's cape and the Benzene cluster makes me wonder if Red, Max, and Cerebros might use it to join the rest of the gang for the final confrontation. It'd definitely be neat to see them again, I've always enjoyed the Luna 1 crew quite a bit

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978549)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 14th, 2018 @ 5:03pm CDT

ArmadaPrime wrote:Hm, seeing the bit about the Necrobot's cape and the Benzene cluster makes me wonder if Red, Max, and Cerebros might use it to join the rest of the gang for the final confrontation. It'd definitely be neat to see them again, I've always enjoyed the Luna 1 crew quite a bit

If the Necrobot really was Mortilus, it begs 2 questions: 1) will he somehow show up again in the finale of LL, and 2) If Red took the cape (and I assume he did) what if he sees Functionist Cybertron in the cloak and Luna 1 comes to the rescue? Luna 1 is a bit of a larger plot point to finish up, seeing as how it could also be a new TF homeland.

EDIT: also, if 6 of 12 has the matrix for a head, what if this is a way to reintroduce the matrix to this universe? most likely a far away claim, but ya know, if they really are as far behind OP and Unicron as they have said, and the Warren and universe jumping did not actually tamper with their perception of time, they could be a final brief stage of Unicron.

I do not want a single person to say it's not possible cause of Robert's story and he was not involved with Unicron, just let the idea sit.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978562)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 14th, 2018 @ 5:49pm CDT

But isn't that a fake matrix though that six of 12 is parading around? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just i thought it was a fake he made to try and prove that the functionist council were fulfilling the will of Primus. Though speaking of Primus, I think the LL crew should capture that intact and use that against unicron

might even the odds slightly.

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978572)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on August 14th, 2018 @ 7:38pm CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:But isn't that a fake matrix though that six of 12 is parading around? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just i thought it was a fake he made to try and prove that the functionist council were fulfilling the will of Primus. Though speaking of Primus, I think the LL crew should capture that intact and use that against unicron might even the odds slightly.

I believed they had found the original, even though Rodimus did say in issue 3 or 4 that that was not the matrix and he should know cause he carried it. But maybe the matrix is still somewhere on this Cybertron

Re: Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22 (1978619)
Posted by ZeroWolf on August 15th, 2018 @ 2:36am CDT

It's certainly possible, but will it get chance to play a part in the unicron saga or will Roberts need it to stop the functionist council

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Dual Review of IDW Transformers: Lost Light #22

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