Bumblebee 'Solidly Profitable' according to Viacom CEO

Please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie... And also a reboot because this movie is too different from Bay's universe, and it'd be nice to see a new cinematic Transformers universe

For all the hype that surrounds the movie........, I hate to admit....., this can’t even beat any of the 5 bayverse movies. I wouldn’t say worst, but the most on par.

Blitzwing was so short lived. Luckily it’s not Starscream. But it was definitely a missed opportunity that Knight didn’t make use of the story of SS , instead of Biltzwing, damaging Bumblebee’s voice cord and having BB seeking revenge in the next movie.

The sparks between Charlie and BB also can’t be compared to Sam and BB’s. I really hate to admit...., but the bond between man and machine was so much fun and interesting in Bay’s TF than in Knight’s.

The fights between the bots were very unrealistic, i.e. one can easily twist the plot to make either the bot or the cons win. It’s very obvious that BB can’t possibly beat any of the cons, and at times, can easily be killed. but it managed to win all the battles.

What about the rumours on the show focusing more on the story of the bots and transformation? To me, I don’t find myself knowing more about BB or the cons. The transformation was also very minimal.

The G1 looking of the bots are really not bad, much much better than the insects-looking things in bayverse. Except, why still give us a ‘Grandma-on-pacifier’ looking BB?

.....I really, really hate to admit....., but I will still watch TF 1 to 5 over and over again, but this Bumblebee movie, it will be the first and the last time...

Sentinel_Primal wrote::PRAY: Please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie... And also a reboot because this movie is too different from Bay's universe, and it'd be nice to see a new cinematic Transformers universe

What made Beast Wars so good in the first place would likely never be recaptured by Hollywood.

With our luck, we'd end up with Optimus Primal throwing his feces at the camera while Megatron (voiced by a misdirected Sylvester Stallone) roars all of his dialogue (because he's a dinosaur, geddit?), while Cheetor (voiced by Owen Wilson) is the personal ride/pet/aide/sidekick/etc. of the movie's lead role who, for some reason, is an obnoxious human character played by a white male actor with a macho physique and a 'Murica! attitude.

Sabrblade wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote::PRAY: Please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie... And also a reboot because this movie is too different from Bay's universe, and it'd be nice to see a new cinematic Transformers universe

What made Beast Wars so good in the first place would likely never be recaptured by Hollywood.

With our luck, we'd end up with Optimus Primal throwing his feces at the camera while Megatron (voiced by a misdirected Sylvester Stallone) roars all of his dialogue (because he's a dinosaur, geddit?), while Cheetor (voiced by Owen Wilson) is the personal ride/pet/aide/sidekick/etc. of the movie's lead role who, for some reason, is an obnoxious human character played by a white male actor with a macho physique and a 'Murica! attitude.

Bumblebee turned out well Though I think we are a long way out from a Beast Wars movie anyway, and if they can find someone who cares for G1, they'll find someone who cares for beast wars... If they do ever make it. But I'd imagine it'll be after the big reboot film.

Sabrblade wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote::PRAY: Please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie... And also a reboot because this movie is too different from Bay's universe, and it'd be nice to see a new cinematic Transformers universe

What made Beast Wars so good in the first place would likely never be recaptured by Hollywood.

I don't get how people think a Beast Wars movie is a good idea. The story of Beast Wars is too complex to be told in 2 hours, unless it's limited to a handful of Transformers characters and all the events of the series get crammed into the movie. Leaving them out would cripple the story severely. If they go in another direction and come up with an all-new story, it would have to be a prequel to the series.

With our luck, we'd end up with Optimus Primal throwing his feces at the camera while Megatron (voiced by a misdirected Sylvester Stallone) roars all of his dialogue (because he's a dinosaur, geddit?), while Cheetor (voiced by Owen Wilson) is the personal ride/pet/aide/sidekick/etc.

Don't give them any ideas, in case any of them are reading these boards.

of the movie's lead role who, for some reason, is an obnoxious human character played by a white male actor with a macho physique and a 'Murica! attitude.

As bad as that is, it would still be a step up over the disgusting interracial garbage they tried to pass off as romance in the Bee movie.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote::PRAY: Please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie, please lead to Beast Wars movie... And also a reboot because this movie is too different from Bay's universe, and it'd be nice to see a new cinematic Transformers universe

What made Beast Wars so good in the first place would likely never be recaptured by Hollywood.

I don't get how people think a Beast Wars movie is a good idea. The story of Beast Wars is too complex to be told in 2 hours, unless it's limited to a handful of Transformers characters and all the events of the series get crammed into the movie. Leaving them out would cripple the story severely. If they go in another direction and come up with an all-new story, it would have to be a prequel to the series.

I'd agree, unless it was an original story not actually set in the BW continuity but heavily inspired by BW it wouldn't work. I can't see it turning out well anyway, and to be honest I don't think it's necessary. Animation aside, BW still holds up very well.

With our luck, we'd end up with Optimus Primal throwing his feces at the camera while Megatron (voiced by a misdirected Sylvester Stallone) roars all of his dialogue (because he's a dinosaur, geddit?), while Cheetor (voiced by Owen Wilson) is the personal ride/pet/aide/sidekick/etc.

Don't give them any ideas, in case any of them are reading these boards.

If Knight or someone like him (a fan of the series) was at the helm then I can't see that being an issue. Though to be fair BW could be pretty low brow at times (remember Rhinox's indigestion episode?).

of the movie's lead role who, for some reason, is an obnoxious human character played by a white male actor with a macho physique and a 'Murica! attitude.

As bad as that is, it would still be a step up over the disgusting interracial garbage they tried to pass off as romance in the Bee movie.

I assume the word you're looking for is "interspecies", as in Bumblebee X Charlie, because interracial means something quite different and might raise a few eyebrows!

I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

ZeroWolf wrote:I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

SPOILER

But weren’t they just friends at the end of the film

ZeroWolf wrote:I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

I did. The end result may have been friendship, but that was still cringeworthy. And because of the end result being a friendship, it was totally unnecessary.

Also, it's almost a given that there will be at least one sequel. Is Bee going to find yet another human to be best friends with before he gets to Sam? Wouldn't it have been better to leave Bee and Charlie's friendship open-ended so it can be built on in a possible sequel?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

I did. The end result may have been friendship, but that was still cringeworthy. And because of the end result being a friendship, it was totally unnecessary.

Also, it's almost a given that there will be at least one sequel. Is Bee going to find yet another human to be best friends with before he gets to Sam? Wouldn't it have been better to leave Bee and Charlie's friendship open-ended so it can be built on in a possible sequel?

Would I prefer more of Bee and Charlie over another Human? Absolutely. But I think for the arc of Charlie’s emotional growth this was the best and only option.

Remember,, she says int he beginning that what’s eating her up was that she never got to say good bye to her Dad. And take it from someone who lost their father at the same age, but had 5 years to prepare for it, that’s an important thing to miss out on. Bee wasn’t really a surrogate Dad, but he was the first person she could connect with after that And since her Dad was a Car Guy, having someone like him manifest AS a car was probably a close enough bridge. When she thought Bee was dead at the bottom of the DryDock, she dove in to do just that, (or that’s my interpretation.) And getting to say it properly to Bee at the end set it in stone.

In my head, Bee tries to revisit his old friend sometime later, by surprising the now Mechanic Charlie at a repair facility. However. While up on the lift, Charlie manages to recognize the old battle wounds first, and shouts Oh my God a Decepticon!” Causing Bee to attempt to Transform and go on the Defensive, but of course he’s on a car lift and transforming doesn’t go... exactly as planned. Two old friends reunite with Bee hanging like a broken marionette, half transformed, 7 feet off the ground, unharmed but stuck, running through old clips of exasperations while Charlie is rolling on the floor laughing.

Flashwave wrote:she says int he beginning that what’s eating her up was that she never got to say good bye to her Dad. And take it from someone who lost their father at the same age, but had 5 years to prepare for it, that’s an important thing to miss out on. Bee wasn’t really a surrogate Dad, but he was the first person she could connect with after that And since her Dad was a Car Guy, having someone like him manifest AS a car was probably a close enough bridge. When she thought Bee was dead at the bottom of the DryDock, she dove in to do just that, (or that’s my interpretation.) And getting to say it properly to Bee at the end set it in stone.

But did it have to bring their friendship to a definite close? Or did he just think he had to leave because Prime showed up

In my head, Bee tries to revisit his old friend sometime later, by surprising the now Mechanic Charlie at a repair facility. However. While up on the lift, Charlie manages to recognize the old battle wounds first, and shouts Oh my God a Decepticon!” Causing Bee to attempt to Transform and go on the Defensive, but of course he’s on a car lift and transforming doesn’t go... exactly as planned. Two old friends reunite with Bee hanging like a broken marionette, half transformed, 7 feet off the ground, unharmed but stuck, running through old clips of exasperations while Charlie is rolling on the floor laughing.

She had to say goodbye in order to move on and heal. She needed that closure that she never got to have with her dad.

And with this news, I may take a short break from Transformers. There's still a handful of figures I still want, like Studio Series Jetfire and Siege Shockwave, but overall I think I'll dip out and come back once the brand's "Back to Basics, Back to the 80's" phase has ended.

Munkky wrote:And with this news, I may take a short break from Transformers. There's still a handful of figures I still want, like Studio Series Jetfire and Siege Shockwave, but overall I think I'll dip out and come back once the brand's "Back to Basics, Back to the 80's" phase has ended.

To borrow a Furmanism "It never ends..."

Munkky wrote:And with this news, I may take a short break from Transformers. There's still a handful of figures I still want, like Studio Series Jetfire and Siege Shockwave, but overall I think I'll dip out and come back once the brand's "Back to Basics, Back to the 80's" phase has ended.

Well reason we are in that "phase" right now is because the franchise needs to heal, it needs to go in the safe direction.

Expect the next movie whether it's part of a new reboot universe or a prequel (Or maybe even sequel that ignores the Unicron plot for now) to the Bay films to not bring in anything drastically new and instead a rehash of a previous story in the franchise.

Like a Force Awakens of Transformers.

I really hope that Bumblebee is a soft reboot of the movie franchise. It's a GOOD movie that deserves it's own series.

It also give hopes for a possible BEAST WARS movie done the same way.

Deadput wrote:Like a Force Awakens of Transformers.

But we certainly WON'T need a "The Last Jedi of Transformers".

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Deadput wrote:Like a Force Awakens of Transformers.

But we certainly WON'T need a "The Last Jedi of Transformers".

I agree

TulioDude wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Deadput wrote:Like a Force Awakens of Transformers.

But we certainly WON'T need a "The Last Jedi of Transformers".

I agree

That was ROTF

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Deadput wrote:Like a Force Awakens of Transformers.

But we certainly WON'T need a "The Last Jedi of Transformers".

Certainly wouldn't want that of course.

It will probably be a G1 based story (A simple sort of story), maybe with a "minor" mcguffin (Hopefully not) but probably just a skirmish or a fight for energon/resources.

A story like the first 3 parter More then Meets the Eye episode(s) of G1 would probably be nice, although I've outgrown the Transformers I will always have a soft spot for that 3 parter. A movie like that would probably be nice.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

I did. The end result may have been friendship, but that was still cringeworthy. And because of the end result being a friendship, it was totally unnecessary.

Also, it's almost a given that there will be at least one sequel. Is Bee going to find yet another human to be best friends with before he gets to Sam? Wouldn't it have been better to leave Bee and Charlie's friendship open-ended so it can be built on in a possible sequel?

Isn't the point of Memo to show that after Charlie's dad died, she wouldn't let anyone into her life, but after meeting Bee, she could?

15ngcs1 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

I did. The end result may have been friendship, but that was still cringeworthy. And because of the end result being a friendship, it was totally unnecessary.

Also, it's almost a given that there will be at least one sequel. Is Bee going to find yet another human to be best friends with before he gets to Sam? Wouldn't it have been better to leave Bee and Charlie's friendship open-ended so it can be built on in a possible sequel?

Isn't the point of Memo to show that after Charlie's dad died, she wouldn't let anyone into her life, but after meeting Bee, she could?

Now that you mention it I think that is indeed the point to his character, not even acknowledging the character at first but Bumblebee gives Charlie the opportunity to be able to have real friends again.

Plus having Memo around means that Charlie still has a friend after Bumblebee leaves because it would be kind of a bitter ending if Charlie is left all alone again even with a better relationship with her family.

(Plus I think he also exists so people don't end up thinking Bumblebee and Charlie's relationship is "romantic" which I will say was a big worry to me prior to seeing the movie, not that I have any problem with the concept of a Transformer and Human romance but I don't think a movie would be able to portray that well and it would be controversial both in the fandom and the general audience.)

Deadput wrote:

15ngcs1 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I thought he meant the humans with the romance comment

I did. The end result may have been friendship, but that was still cringeworthy. And because of the end result being a friendship, it was totally unnecessary.

Also, it's almost a given that there will be at least one sequel. Is Bee going to find yet another human to be best friends with before he gets to Sam? Wouldn't it have been better to leave Bee and Charlie's friendship open-ended so it can be built on in a possible sequel?

Isn't the point of Memo to show that after Charlie's dad died, she wouldn't let anyone into her life, but after meeting Bee, she could?

Now that you mention it I think that is indeed the point to his character, not even acknowledging the character at first but Bumblebee gives Charlie the opportunity to be able to have real friends again.

Plus having Memo around means that Charlie still has a friend after Bumblebee leaves because it would be kind of a bitter ending if Charlie is left all alone again even with a better relationship with her family.

(Plus I think he also exists so people don't end up thinking Bumblebee and Charlie's relationship is "romantic" which I will say was a big worry to me prior to seeing the movie, not that I have any problem with the concept of a Transformer and Human romance but I don't think a movie would be able to portray that well and it would be controversial both in the fandom and the general audience.)

And Memo becoming her friend also seemed to serve as a means of subverting the age-old cliche of "guy and girl get together by the end of the movie when there's little reason for them to do so", showing that they can be just friends in a platonic way without needing for force them into a romance. Sure, Memo was attracted to her, but he's an awkward boy-next-door type teenager, of course he'd find her attractive. The point of his offering to her hold her hand and her declining his offer shows strength in the writing for both Charlie's character (showing her independence not needing to jump into any kind of romantic relationship) and Memo's character (when Charlie declines his offer, the fact that he's cool with it shows that he can be the better man and respect her wishes with honor and grace, content with her at least opening up to him as a new friend).

Not exactly sure how they can call BB *profitable* just yet, unless they are just counting chickens before they hatch. i can see it being profitable, maybe within the next 2 weeks, but not just yet.

Most people go by the general rule now, that for a movie to be considered *profitable* its WW Gross has to be at least 3X it's budget. (to incorporate money for advertising, ancillaries etc...). For instance, some horror movies that have budgets of less than 10M, are easily profitable, if they make only 100M, (just domestically), they have already made 10x their budget.

For instance Transformers TLK (an awful film to be sure) had a budget of 217M, and a final WW Gross of 605M (92% of 3X its budget), thus it was not only a failure critically, but also financially.

However BB, while having a much more modest budget of only 135M, has to date only made 364M WW (90% of 3X it's budget, still less percentage wise than TLK). Now while there is a *possibility* BB could still rack in another 40M Globally in the next 2-3 weeks, it's not entirely a guarantee. Unless the advertising/ancillaries for this film were again, much ,more conservative, then I guess they *technically* could call it a financial success.

Of course, none of this takes away the fact that general audiences, and critics seem to universally agree that BB IS the best Live Action TF film to date, its just that the *general audience* that is going to see this film is a relatively small crowd.

I'm happy that awards buzz (no pun intended), is Giving Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse an extra push. I just hoped that positive word of mouth would do the same for BB (no awards contention necessary).

o.supreme wrote:Not exactly sure how they can call BB *profitable* just yet, unless they are just counting chickens before they hatch. i can see it being profitable, maybe within the next 2 weeks, but not just yet.

Most people go by the general rule now, that for a movie to be considered *profitable* its WW Gross has to be at least 3X it's budget. (to incorporate money for advertising, ancillaries etc...). For instance, some horror movies that have budgets of less than 10M, are easily profitable, if they make only 100M, (just domestically), they have already made 10x their budget.

For instance Transformers TLK (an awful film to be sure) had a budget of 217M, and a final WW Gross of 605M (92% of 3X its budget), thus it was not only a failure critically, but also financially.

However BB, while having a much more modest budget of only 135M, has to date only made 364M WW (90% of 3X it's budget, still less percentage wise than TLK). Now while there is a *possibility* BB could still rack in another 40M Globally in the next 2-3 weeks, it's not entirely a guarantee. Unless the advertising/ancillaries for this film were again, much ,more conservative, then I guess they *technically* could call it a financial success.

Of course, none of this takes away the fact that general audiences, and critics seem to universally agree that BB IS the best Live Action TF film to date, its just that the *general audience* that is going to see this film is a relatively small crowd.

I'm happy that awards buzz (no pun intended), is Giving Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse an extra push. I just hoped that positive word of mouth would do the same for BB (no awards contention necessary).

Not sure I understand ypur point 100%, but Bee's total as of thr article was 100m Domestic+ 307m ww, for a total income of 407. Which put them at 99.5% of 3x Budget. Yes no?

boxofficemojo.com reflects 367M, as of this weekend (109M Domestic, 258M foreign)**this total has been updated since I initially posted earlier

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?i ... rmers6.htm

o.supreme wrote:boxofficemojo.com reflects 367M, as of this weekend (109M Domestic, 258M foreign)**this total has been updated since I initially posted earlier

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?i ... rmers6.htm

Odd.

News Article wrote:Speaking at the Citi TMT West Conference in Las Vegas this last Wednesday, Bakish made explicit reference to Bumblebee’s success, and that it had proven “solidly profitable”. Bakish specifically compared Bumblebee to 2017’s infamous The Last Knight, which had lost over $100 million domestically. As recorded by Box Office Mojo, Bumblebee currently stands at a domestic gross of over $100 million with a $135 million budget, with an additional $307 million grossed worldwide. Though relatively low compared to early films in the franchise, Bumblebee does appear to be steering the franchise back towards profitability.

So either the BOM numbers were adjusted down or the article made a goof. That would be the source of our confusion though

Did you enjoy the Transformers Bumblebee movie? Do you want to add the best looking version you can purchase to your collection? Got a Ultra 4K HD ready TV that needs something to test it? Answer yes to these questions and Best Buy have the product for you. Today they revealed their exclusive Steel Book Ultra 4K Blu-ray set for the Bumblebee Movie, priced at $32.99.



The set includes the Ultra 4K HD edition, the digital edition of the movie for you to download and the regular Blu-ray edition, all in a snazzy steel book which features artwork inside of Hailee Steinfeld's character Charlie and Bee watching the sunset.

Will you be picking this up or do you have a preorder else where? Let us know in the Energon Pub and stay tuned to Seibertron for all the latest news and reviews!

Just pre-ordered mine

I'm not really into steelbooks, I just try to get whichever version has the most actual content. Target's TLK BRD was the only version that included Machinima's CW. I'm hoping at least one release of BB will have TR & PotP included. Yeah I know these series are horrible, still I'd like to have them in some format for the sake of completion.

So...no word on bonus content yet I assume, since we dont even have a release date.

o.supreme wrote:boxofficemojo.com reflects 367M, as of this weekend (109M Domestic, 258M foreign)**this total has been updated since I initially posted earlier

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?i ... rmers6.htm

One week later BMO has it at 117M domestic & 296M foreign= WW 413M (Budget X3=405M)

NOW it is officially profitable

o.supreme wrote:

o.supreme wrote:boxofficemojo.com reflects 367M, as of this weekend (109M Domestic, 258M foreign)**this total has been updated since I initially posted earlier

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?i ... rmers6.htm

One week later BMO has it at 117M domestic & 296M foreign= WW 413M (Budget X3=405M)

NOW it is officially profitable

Great to hear that!

I love how this movie has been steadily and nicely bringing in more money, and Japan doesn't get the movie for another month and a half yet!

This video has been popping up and seems legit/legal like a promotion for the release in asian markets. So dont see why I culdnt post it here, enjoy the best parts of the BB movie!

william-james88 wrote:This video has been popping up and seems legit/legal like a promotion for the release in asian markets. So dont see why I culdnt post it here, enjoy the best parts of the BB movie!

How to Share With Just Friends

got goosebumps again!

After finally seeing the movie about a week ago (I loved it, it was everything I hoped it would be), I kinda got the desire to see what this movie's Bumblebee robot mode design would look like with the other movie Bumblebee vehicle modes/parts like how they did with the 76 Camaro; main desire is to see it with the black with yellow accents 67 Camaro from AOE, but any of the modern Camaros would be cool too.

So excited at how well the movie is doing both in the states and abroad! Can't wait to see what it will do in Japan and hopefully they greenlight a sequel soon!

While Bumblebee’s US theatrical run may be winding down, we have word that Bumblebee will journey on on a foreign shore familiar to many Transformer fans: China. Taken directly from the China Box Office Twitter, Bumblebee has been renewed for showings until March 2nd.

For those unfamiliar with Chinese regulations, most foreign films are restricted to about a month in theaters. To have Bumblebee extended required the studio's filing of an official request to Chinese authorities. This is an apparent first in the Transformers franchise, seeing as most records indicate no other Transformers film has ran in China long enough to substantiate a renewal. With the extension, Bumblebee’s run will last 57 days in total, dwarfing The Last Knight and Age of Extinction's runs of 31 and 35 days respectively.

With Bumblebee grossing the least of all Paramount's films, and with overseas revenue tending to be more lucrative than domestic, this extension may be the push Bumblebee needs to catch up with its predecessors.


What are your thoughts? Do you see this as a sign of good faith from Paramount, or does this seem more like a desperate attempt to increase the film's relatively-low profits? Do you care? Let us know what you think in the forums below, and stay tuned to Seibertron for more Transformers News and Reviews.

Well first of all I'm surprised that neither AoE nor TLK got an extension like this, considering Chinese involvement in those films. Or maybe it's like you said, Bumblebee is not doing as well as those movies did financially.

Actually I think aoe and tlk would have got similar extensions if they were released at the same time that bee was. I think paramount will be happy with the money it's made compared to how much it cost so I don't think that's the reason at all

Ultimately it is a shame. If this film had been the first live action Transformers, I think this would have been extremely well received. Sadly the oversaturation of Bayformers may have poisoned the well, so to speak.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Ultimately it is a shame. If this film had been the first live action Transformers, I think this would have been extremely well received. Sadly the oversaturation of Bayformers may have poisoned the well, so to speak.

Or maybe people didn't like it because it wasn't as great as some fans think it was.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Ultimately it is a shame. If this film had been the first live action Transformers, I think this would have been extremely well received. Sadly the oversaturation of Bayformers may have poisoned the well, so to speak.

Or maybe people didn't like it because it wasn't as great as some fans think it was.

"Greatness" is subjective. As a Decepticon fan, ALL Transformers films, baring '86, have been a series of perpetually huge disappointments. Without mentioning the bizarre fetishising of Prime and Bumblebee.

Nevertheless It is better than Bayformers, although that isn't a particularly high standard to begin with. A friend who is a non-Transformers fan went to see Bumblebee and he enjoyed it. In summation, his final words on the film were "it was a Transformers film not made by a sexual predator"

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Ultimately it is a shame. If this film had been the first live action Transformers, I think this would have been extremely well received. Sadly the oversaturation of Bayformers may have poisoned the well, so to speak.

Or maybe people didn't like it because it wasn't as great as some fans think it was.

Nevertheless It is better than Bayformers

Like you said about "greatness," "better" is also subjective. You think it was better than Bayformers. I don't. That's the good thing about opinions. We can have different ones. This movie is the first TF film I don't care to ever see again. And going by the box office, I'm not the only one. I'm not saying it's horrible, but I don't think it was good. The story and character development was on par with Bayverse, but it was missing the big action pieces. I wouldn't have minded that if the story was better.

I saw the first Bayformers twice, the second once and the third likewise, before tapping out. Never gone back to them, never bought them on DVD or the toys etc Because I don't support things I don't like, even within a series that I do. The emphasis on humans, shows the creators behind Bayformers don't get what Transformers is. By the same token, over-humanising Transformers in IDW demonstrated the same thing to me, hence why I turned my back on that too.

Transformers is not rocket science to get right. But when you use the very core of the series as a backdrop, you are being disingenuous in what you are making.

The story for Bumblebee was a simple one, not award winning by any means. An origin story, clearly skirting the line between Hard and Soft Reboot, before they cowardly back-peddled out of the idea completely. But it is less focused on superficial spectacle (and flaunting Bay's Jingoistic nonsense) than tell a story, which is one mark that in particular, that puts it above Bayformers.

Thing is paramount never said it was anything but a prequel, it was us fans that always brought on the speculation about its status. I mean it's not like tf designs didn't radically change from one installment to another already... (amarda -> Energon -> Cybertron, Prime -> Rid 2015, all of IDW practically) Knight thought he could change the looks and still get away with it being a prequel.

Also re: humans in the franchise, it all depends on the story you want to tell, if its just a war story the humans (other then celebrity voices as Studios want star power in the film somewhere... And no, the brand is not that kind of star power) will not be required. Doing a "in disguise" type of story then yeah, you need humans, there's a balance to strike.

I'm not even talking about what other people call it,that's largely irrelevant. To me, watching Bumblebee, it came across in it's execution as a Reboot. A Directorial change was that much of a breath of fresh air, in my view.

When it comes to humans, that balance is rarely struck. If one in five scenes of your film is on humans and not Transformers, in their titular film, it is not a Transformers film. By the same token if Transformers don't transform for the majority of your story, they are not Transformers. They are colourful generic robots ala latter IDWverse.

But that's only by your standards and definitions, not Hasbros or Paramounts. Also I would love it if the movies went more like IDW with characters and concepts, I still have hope that one day Hasbro will do a DC and start putting out direct to disc/stream animated movies based on IDW arcs or other past comic arcs that warrant the work.

I'm an individual, not some faceless conglomerate, I have no interest in tailoring my own experience to the views of such people.

Indeed. I think Megatron: Origin, the -Ations and LSoTW would make great animated movies. Even Maximum Dinobots, with a little tweaking, would be entertaining to see in motion.