Botcon Reverse Ban on Fan Art Sales

Hasbro has become Nazis

Day late and a dollar short. I've already made my decision about Botcon. There are too many others out there that are NOT being arsehats.

lol....shooting themselves in the foot much?! They've put their foot in the s**t and realizes that they don't like the f****n' smell. Done with Botcon.

Come on guys, I think Hasbro deserves some slack for this one. This decision means they are listening. (at least somewhat)

Hope this also show all us that, yes, sometimes it is GOOD to complain...
(hate apathy...)

couldn't someone sell a 3rd party figure there now,...and then if hasbro tries to confiscate the item,...that person could now sue Harbro because they said that fan ART was allowed at the convention?

and in a certain perspective a figure could be concieved as a work of art....just throwing that out there...

Im curious...

This whole 3rd party ban thing is only being distrubuted by fan websites. I checked the Botcon 2012 official website and there is no mention of any of these "alleged" 3rd party bans. And I get all Botcon update e-mails from Funpub and have never recieved one regarding a 3rd party ban. Wasnt Hasbro supposed to put out an official statement on their website ? Or did only people who bought a dealers admission recieve these e-mails about this ? Right now it seems that if you dont read fan websites, you would never know about this whole thing. Can somebody please post a link regarding the 3rd party ban that doesnt originate from a fan website or a known fan website member ???

By the way, the art sales ban was f**kin retarded to begin with. When you pay to visit a museum and view art, the museum profits from the admission fee. So Funpub is technically making money from unsanctioned artwork even if it is for display only. So if Funpub can make profit from the art, the artists should be able to make profit too.

Good. Hasbro has seen reason. I can totally see why they'd ban 3rd party stuff and KOs, but banning fan artists just hurts fans and Hasbro's rep, regardless of whether or not they're legally okay in doing so.

Of course I think a;; this last minute rule changing might have poisoned their reputation already, but it's nice that they listened to the massive outcry over this.

It was only a matter of time before Hasbro and Takara lashed back at unlicensed products. There was a time when third party was innocent. A limited little add on for a figure her and there, but it has become exceedingly mainstream, and infringing in recent years.

Sure, they took it a step too far banning the sale and commissioning of fan made Transformers art, but they realized that and that is why they backed down.

AutobotCliffjumper wrote:lol....shooting themselves in the foot much?! They've put their foot in the s**t and realizes that they don't like the f****n' smell. Done with Botcon.

Beericade wrote:Day late and a dollar short. I've already made my decision about Botcon. There are too many others out there that are NOT being arsehats.

joevill wrote:Hasbro has become Nazis

Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying "Fuck botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

5150 Cruiser wrote: Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying **** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

Nope. Won't see me in line in front or out back. The fans in my household have decided to spend our money at Cons that actually don't ostracize a good portion of the fan base. If Hasbro really listened to the fans as you implied they would have done something regarding the FunPub matter. Instead, they washed their hands and passed the buck. If they had their ears open they would at least attempt to recognize their adult fans and customers and do what the third party guys offer. But, no, they instead throw a temper tantrum because what they had to offer was shown up last year at their own Con. Sorry, but I don't do stockholders meetings disguised as a Con. A fan base shouldn't be relegated to slinking in the back shadows to get the things Hasbro and Takara can't pull off.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

AutobotCliffjumper wrote:lol....shooting themselves in the foot much?! They've put their foot in the s**t and realizes that they don't like the f****n' smell. Done with Botcon.

Beericade wrote:Day late and a dollar short. I've already made my decision about Botcon. There are too many others out there that are NOT being arsehats.

joevill wrote:Hasbro has become Nazis

Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying **** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

Did it ever occur to you that the 3 guys youre quoting dont care about fan art ??? This minor "change of heart" on fan art is nothing but a PR stunt. The fans want no bans at all, not republican style flip flopping.

Beericade wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying **** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

Nope. Won't see me in line in front or out back. The fans in my household have decided to spend our money at Cons that actually don't ostracize a good portion of the fan base. If Hasbro really listened to the fans as you implied they would have done something regarding the FunPub matter. Instead, they washed their hands and passed the buck. If they had their ears open they would at least attempt to recognize their adult fans and customers and do what the third party guys offer. But, no, they instead throw a temper tantrum because what they had to offer was shown up last year at their own Con. Sorry, but I don't do stockholders meetings disguised as a Con. A fan base shouldn't be relegated to slinking in the back shadows to get the things Hasbro and Takara can't pull off.

I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

Beericade wrote: If they had their ears open they would at least attempt to recognize their adult fans and customers and do what the third party guys offer. But, no, they instead throw a temper tantrum because what they had to offer was shown up last year at their own Con. Sorry, but I don't do stockholders meetings disguised as a Con. A fan base shouldn't be relegated to slinking in the back shadows to get the things Hasbro and Takara can't pull off.

So because they don't offer the same things 3rd party compaines offer they don't care about adult fans? That damn Hasbro. Only caring about making toys for the kids!

But one thing i will give you credit. If you truly aren't happy with what hasbro is doing and will not be parcicipating, then good for you. I'm not one to protest, but if you do believe in something then stand by it.

Rated X wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that the 3 guys youre quoting dont care about fan art ??? This minor "change of heart" on fan art is nothing but a PR stunt. The fans want no bans at all, not republican style flip flopping.

Doesn't matter wheather they care about fan art or not. There pissed becasue there was a ban, but part of that ban is being lifted and they still want to cry like babies. NO, 100% of the bans may not have been lifted, (i still think Hasbro was in the right with their orignal decision) but at least they were listening. But to them Hasbro will always just be the big bad corperation that's out to ruin their fun.

At least they recognized that there is a major difference between a company, even a small one, selling what is, essentially, bootleg TF toys and an artist selling pictures. It's essentially a matter of scale: a single artist may make a few bucks here and there on what is essentially free advertising, while the third-party companies are actually competing with Hasbro while still profiting from the Transformers' brand by making toys based on TF characters or concepts. Hasbro and Takara are TOY companies after all.

...and yes, it DOES smack of the giant corporation stomping on the "little guy." However, BotCon IS Hasbro's home turf, there are dozens of other TF conventions where the third-party companies can still show their stuff.

Burn wrote:I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

As expensive as the whole trip is I'd be surprised that any kids and their (most likely bored out of their minds) parents turn up. If their parents are collectors themselves of course your statement is kinda irrelevant. We're talking about BotCon and how Hasbro's collectors offerings just suck in quality and price, at this point we could honestly do without the official club as far as I'm concerned, we get more info from Toy Fair and other non-Transformers conventions anyway.

Seriously I want to know now. How many kids can bee seen at BotCon on average?

Good news. I'm glad they're listening, even if it doesn't necessarily mean the same exception will apply in future years.

Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Vicalliose wrote:

Burn wrote:I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

As expensive as the whole trip is I'd be surprised that any kids and their (most likely bored out of their minds) parents turn up. If their parents are collectors themselves of course your statement is kinda irrelevant. We're talking about BotCon and how Hasbro's collectors offerings just suck in quality and price, at this point we could honestly do without the official club as far as I'm concerned, we get more info from Toy Fair and other non-Transformers conventions anyway.

Seriously I want to know now. How many kids can bee seen at BotCon on average?

Yes yes, BotCon isn't attended by the main target group of Transformers, it's aimed at the collectors.

That's not what i'm getting at.

What i'm getting at is this massive belief being perpetuated by those sprouting the anti-Hasbro sentiment that they are the target group of Transformers and that they're owed something by Hasbro and when Hasbro says otherwise, they cry and bemoan ... whilst running out to the nearest store to snap up the latest figures.

I'll be blunt. It's sad, it's pathetic, it's time people accepted that unless you're under the age of 15, Transformers is NOT aimed at you. You're just a minority demographic in the overall fanbase.

Rated X wrote:Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Then you are gonna have to find someone who paid for a dealer's table for BotCon, because I guarantee you those are the only people who got actual emails and warnings about 3rd party products and the Artists Alley. It's not a cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, they are just sending the news to whom it applies to, ie. the people who paid to get table space to sell items.

I just want to give a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has kicked up a giant sh*it storm over this nonsense, for it seems we do still have the power to have a say in the fandom we have dedicated so much to!

As an artist I have followed this pathetic attempt closely, and it's nice to see it get reversed. I've never gone to botcon or any other con, neither have I sold fan art-but it's still a scary thing to suddenly have loom over the fandom.

28 odd years into a fandom is too late to be bitchin' that something is suddenly so wrong. The pricipal of profiting from fan art has been illegal since, I would imagine, fan art's birth-so you can't come crying foul now if you've flounted the law on the basis it does no harm to your company. If it wasn't that big a problem then, and during all these long years, why now?

Sorry, I've held off posting before now to avoid the rant I know is kempt inside me- But I just had to thank everyone using their voices

get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Rated X wrote:Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Then you are gonna have to find someone who paid for a dealer's table for BotCon, because I guarantee you those are the only people who got actual emails and warnings about 3rd party products and the Artists Alley. It's not a cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, they are just sending the news to whom it applies to, ie. the people who paid to get table space to sell items.

Well than how about one of these anonymous dealers come forward and show us the e-mail ???

Everything other update for paying Botcon ticket holders is posted on the website so why not this one. Dealers are ticket holders too. When I bought my Primus package, I had access to buy a dealers ticket, so all their updates should be addressed in “official” public forums as well. Only sending e-mails that might get bounced back by full inboxes might ruin the whole legality of this move since Hasbro and Funpub has not made this official. They have a legal obligation to take reasonable steps to notify their customers since a change was made after payment was received. “False advertising” is a legitimate beef in court.

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Rated X wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Rated X wrote:Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Then you are gonna have to find someone who paid for a dealer's table for BotCon, because I guarantee you those are the only people who got actual emails and warnings about 3rd party products and the Artists Alley. It's not a cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, they are just sending the news to whom it applies to, ie. the people who paid to get table space to sell items.

Well than how about one of these anonymous dealers come forward and show us the e-mail ???

Everything other update for paying Botcon ticket holders is posted on the website so why not this one. Dealers are ticket holders too. When I bought my Primus package, I had access to buy a dealers ticket, so all their updates should be addressed in “official” public forums as well. Only sending e-mails that might get bounced back by full inboxes might ruin the whole legality of this move since Hasbro and Funpub has not made this official. They have a legal obligation to take reasonable steps to notify their customers since a change was made after payment was received. “False advertising” is a legitimate beef in court.

I'm not a dealer, so I've received no 'dealer exclusive warning'. But I did take it upon my myself to email Pete@botcon directly about a private sell/trade involving 2 fans outside of the dealer room, with 3rd party products. This was his reply:

pete@botcon wrote:Hey...
>
>Anything you do outside of the exhibitor hall is your business
>
>We're not gonna have patrols our running through the hotel
>
>Thanks for checking though!!!
>
>Pete
>
>p.s. GREAT you are getting rid of the stuff too! The value of all that
>stuff will plummet in the long run. PERSONAL opinion...

On a more official level, we have been told (like everything else), there will be an official statement using official, policy based wording, that will be sent out regarding the ban of certain, unlicensed products:

Pete@botcon wrote:Just got an email from the brand team and it reiterates what I know some of you have gotten in email responses from us...
*****************
As long as it is official Hasbro OR TakaraTomy product then they are official products. They can also sell officially Licensed TF goods from Hasbro or TT.
If it's either made by Hasbro or TakaraTomy it is officially licensed by Hasbro or TakaraTomy... Anything else is a knock off or an unofficially licenced good.
*****************
So. To be 100% clear... Licensed Transformers either from Hasbro or Takara Tomy are fine. Licensed Sci-Fi related toys from other companies is fine as well. However, again, anything that violates Hasbro IP should not be brought to BotCon.

He also emailed us asking not to run with THAT statement as a news story, because he was awaiting for official wordage from the Brand team.

No official message has ever been sent, and with 20 days 'til the event, I doubt we will get one. If Pete is the front man for Fun Pub, and these are his words, that would make relatively official.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Well considering the thing that got me into Transformers collecting, i.e. spending ALOT of money on OFFICIAL HASBRO PRODUCTS was the 3rd party city commander, I highly doubt it will...what was it...kill off a franchise that has been around longer than I've been alive...

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Well considering the thing that got me into Transformers collecting, i.e. spending ALOT of money on OFFICIAL HASBRO PRODUCTS was the 3rd party city commander, I highly doubt it will...what was it...kill off a franchise that has been around longer than I've been alive...

That was in the toddler stage of this whole third party expansion. But now, you have companies being able to turn out products faster and faster (6 figures in a span of 6 months for Hercules) and at high quality. It only take them finding a way to make low-cost production possible and next thing you know HasTak can't keep up or compete with the rampant 3rd party KO's and the whole franchise falls a part. Knock offs have killed off the products they originally copied from and HasTak/Transformers is not immune to the very same thing happening.

It's business, and knock-offs/unlicensed products are indeed serious threat to business. You might view it as innocent companions with Hasbro product, or as vigilante companies giving fans what they really deserve, but it is all in danger of becoming a serious competitor with the ones who own the franchise they are capitalizing from.

But 7 Bumblebee toys and 10 Optimus Prime Toys...in one toy line mind you....absolutley won't drive collectors away.

And Im through discussing this for fear of bringing the wrath ofthe moderaters for getting off topic.

AutobotMR2 wrote:But 7 Bumblebee toys and 10 Optimus Prime Toys...in one toy line mind you....absolutley won't drive collectors away.

Not saying Hasbro hasn't made some bad choices, but it's still not unlicensed companies places to address the problem.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Well considering the thing that got me into Transformers collecting, i.e. spending ALOT of money on OFFICIAL HASBRO PRODUCTS was the 3rd party city commander, I highly doubt it will...what was it...kill off a franchise that has been around longer than I've been alive...

That was in the toddler stage of this whole third party expansion. But now, you have companies being able to turn out products faster and faster (6 figures in a span of 6 months for Hercules) and at high quality. It only take them finding a way to make low-cost production possible and next thing you know HasTak can't keep up or compete with the rampant 3rd party KO's and the whole franchise falls a part. Knock offs have killed off the products they originally copied from and HasTak/Transformers is not immune to the very same thing happening.

It's business, and knock-offs/unlicensed products are indeed serious threat to business. You might view it as innocent companions with Hasbro product, or as vigilante companies giving fans what they really deserve, but it is all in danger of becoming a serious competitor with the ones who own the franchise they are capitalizing from.

You mention that this is business and I understand that in business that it's a dog-eat-dog world. I would rather have Has/Tak get some competition to light some serious fire under their asses. Complacency will kill a company that no longer has the willpower to want to bring better things to the table. I've always been a supporter of the Transformers franchise (minus the last 2 movies/the movie toys, they were terrible) but when there are issues, I will not turn a blind eye to it. When we complain, it's not because we are being babies and have nothing else to do with our lives, we are trying to make things better by using our strength in numbers. If everyone else is happy following the pack of apathy, by all means do it! I for one will stand my ground on being upset when I pay a ton of $ to a convention that has no organization. I for one am not a fan of waiting 5+ hours in a convention hall to pick up my exclusives and souvenir sets. I could go on, but hey have it me trolls.

Well said sir.

AutobotMR2 wrote:Well said sir.

Thank you! I'm glad we're on the same ark!

Like I said, I have spent ALOT of money, at the cost of anger from my wife on toys from Hasbro. I'm not anti Hasbro...I'm anti money grubbing.

Burn wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:

Burn wrote:I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

As expensive as the whole trip is I'd be surprised that any kids and their (most likely bored out of their minds) parents turn up. If their parents are collectors themselves of course your statement is kinda irrelevant. We're talking about BotCon and how Hasbro's collectors offerings just suck in quality and price, at this point we could honestly do without the official club as far as I'm concerned, we get more info from Toy Fair and other non-Transformers conventions anyway.

Seriously I want to know now. How many kids can bee seen at BotCon on average?

Yes yes, BotCon isn't attended by the main target group of Transformers, it's aimed at the collectors.

That's not what i'm getting at.

What i'm getting at is this massive belief being perpetuated by those sprouting the anti-Hasbro sentiment that they are the target group of Transformers and that they're owed something by Hasbro and when Hasbro says otherwise, they cry and bemoan ... whilst running out to the nearest store to snap up the latest figures.

I'll be blunt. It's sad, it's pathetic, it's time people accepted that unless you're under the age of 15, Transformers is NOT aimed at you. You're just a minority demographic in the overall fanbase.

well said.

I for one enjoy what hasbro produces, are all the toy great...no, but a lot of them are. I like the current transformers tv show. the war for cybertron game was awesome hell I even liked the first and third live action movies(devestators design can never be forgiven so screw rotf). I would hate to see the things I enjoy go away because hasbro could not compete with this third party crap.

AutobotCliffjumper wrote:I would rather have Has/Tak get some competition to light some serious fire under their asses. Complacency will kill a company that no longer has the willpower to want to bring better things to the table.

Then maybe these companies should get together and come up with something ORIGINAL instead of basing their work on property someone else created.

They're not being competition while they're riding Hasbro/TT's coat tails.

And as for bringing better things to the table ... I think the target demographic of Transformers is quite happy with how things are. Like I said, it's this very vocal MINORITY who need to accept the fact that Transformers is NOT aimed at them and that Hasbro/TT owe them NOTHING.

That being said ... both companies DO acknowledge the minority demographic and have made plenty of attempts to appease them in recent years.

But still they bitch and moan ...

I would agree with you if the third party companies were ACTUALLY following what Hasbro is doing i.e. making toys of characters at the same time as Hasbro. But the fact is they aren't when was the last time you saw a Triple Changing Springer, or a true set of Constructicons, or updated Insecticons? Truth is...you haven't because Hasbro hasn't made them. SO what are they riding?? A toy that they haven't made in almost 20 years???????

But they are still basing their work on something another company done. It doesn't matter whether it was done yesterday or 30 years ago.

These people are clearly highly talented, if people really wanted them to be competitive, then they'd come up with something original and find a way to actually compete with Hasbro/TT instead of just running after them filling in pot holes.

AutobotMR2 wrote:I would agree with you if the third party companies were ACTUALLY following what Hasbro is doing i.e. making toys of characters at the same time as Hasbro. But the fact is they aren't when was the last time you saw a Triple Changing Springer, or a true set of Constructicons, or updated Insecticons? Truth is...you haven't because Hasbro hasn't made them. SO what are they riding?? A toy that they haven't made in almost 20 years???????

that's like saying since I havnt logged any trees out of the woods I own in awhile that it is okay for others to............

I see we are getting way off topic, but I thought I'd throw this in there...

I don't collect transforming toys. The ONLY reason these 3rd party companies get my money, is because they make recognizable and awe inspiring Transformers toys and accessories. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH prefer to buy them from Hasbro. I have no love for the 3rd party companies themselves. I wish Hasbro would straight up KO all the 3rd party stuff and put it on my shelves for a 10th the price.

njb902 wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:I would agree with you if the third party companies were ACTUALLY following what Hasbro is doing i.e. making toys of characters at the same time as Hasbro. But the fact is they aren't when was the last time you saw a Triple Changing Springer, or a true set of Constructicons, or updated Insecticons? Truth is...you haven't because Hasbro hasn't made them. SO what are they riding?? A toy that they haven't made in almost 20 years???????

that's like saying since I havnt logged any trees out of the woods I own in awhile that it is okay for others to............

It sounds more like, to use your analogy.....that they are logging trees made from the seeds that grew in an open field that you don't own, but since the seeds are from your trees they should be in fact YOUR trees. ANYWAY, GRR you are right, if Hasbro released their own Hercules or Warbot Defender for a significantly cheaper price, it's not even a question...bought on sight.

If there's one positive thing to come out of this is it's obvious that Hasbro ARE listening to the (minority) fanbase and are looking to make them happy.

It's like I said very early on, it was probably a decision made by Hasbro Legal, the guys like Aaron Archer and Co. (the ones who actually do interact with the public and don't hide in a court room) probably had no saying. Once the negative feedback rolled in someone obviously pushed the case against Hasbro Legal and things changed.

Now that they're listening, instead of pursuing 3rd party stuff in the courts, they might work out a way to work together.

The "club" now has new store software, and with all the damage that's been done to the Club's rep in the last few months, wouldn't that be a perfect avenue to market Hasbro endorsed 3rd party stuff?

Win Win for everyone.

Now I agree with you! I can't describe how wonderful an idea that would be!

Just think, the 3rd party guys can be contracted for the design work, then everything is assembled at Hasbro's factories, the quality control will be (slightly) better and things SHOULD be a little cheaper.

Plus it gives even more reason for people to join the Club. Instead of ANOTHER Shattered Glass character as the free figure for the year, you could get something ORIGINAL. How's that for an incentive?

It won't happen because it's too damn good of an idea.

God knows it WOULD be awesome. Think of all the money Has/Tak would save in design R&D! They could just adapt the products to meet child safety laws and work with their production facilities.

Won't happen, but it's nice to dream.

I don't think Hasbro would ever license out to any of the existing third party manufacturers. You don't stop diamond thieve by giving them a job at Zales.

However, I do wish Hasbro would give thought to the notion of a collectors division. Not a line focused on collectors but still held to the same standards as mass market toys aimed at children, but an actual collectors division that focused on high quality, super articulate figures. Focus on selling them online, through the various toy retailers who's main traffic is collectors.