BotCon loose sets SOLD OUT

Counterpunch wrote:http://www.botcon.com/

Front paged ya' brutha!

Thanks for the help!

Uh oh, looks like these is going like hot cakes!

I think this may have been the first time that even the loose sets went before the con happened. Glad I got a box set with my registration!

Hmm. The chances of my wangling an extra loose set for some friends on the Hub just took a nosedive. Ah well.

Botcon is going to be MAAAD.

-Nick

Wow! All I can say is wow!

I am beyond glad that I splurged and got myself the non-attending package so I could have a box set. Quite frankly I'm not really suprised. As a fandom and fanbase we have absolutely loved the Classics for one simple reason. They went back to basics for Transformers but with today's engineering and beloved characters from our childhood for alot of us at least.

Us fans were begging Hasbro to do the remaining seekers as far as Thrust, Dirge and Thundercracker were concerned. Is it no suprise that despite the outrage and anger from fans concerning the price and exclusivity that the set, both boxed and loose, is sold out? Come on, no one can say they're suprised.

One thing is for sure. The after market Ebay prices (or going bids) will be absolutely crazy!

come on ebay

Just more proof this it was a bad idea to make these guys a Botcon set. They are in such demand that they are all gone before the show opens. They should have been made for the general public Hasblow.

Not surprised, what with all the extra attention Transformers is receiving at the moment, Botcon will be crazy for the next few years.

Also means many people will be flogging these off on ebay for even crazier prices than usual.

I thought this happpened a while ago

they should make more sets.... when we cook dinner for people, we'd rather see leftovers than none. that way we know everyone had enough.

Liege Evilmus wrote:I thought this happpened a while ago

The BOXED sets that you could get by attending or through the non-attendee Iacon package sold out a while ago...these are the extra loose sets that you can get once you've already purchased a boxed set, I believe...

And I've never been happier to see $279 charged to a credit card in my life.

Wow! I'm glad I got my box set in before they sold out(last day as well). Now this, is this the first time a set ever completely sold out? I never had a chance to get to a Botcon before. I'm thinking maybe next year.

"You're done son" "ya' brutha" ??? this is my kind of topic yo' 4 real

If I may quote Captain Kirk
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vile MK III wrote:"You're done son" "ya' brutha" ??? this is my kind of topic yo' 4 real

What's up G? We use proper punctuation in the hood yo.

So get right or get to stepping.

Man, I am so tired of hearing the wah wah wah of people who didn't step up. If you didn't buy it when it was available, guess what? There's only you to blame. These would never have been available for sale any other way. Think otherwise? Well rock on with your conspiracy theories then. Just do it quietly so the rest of us don't have to listen to the whining. Why is it that every time Botcon rolls around people have to bitch about the availablity of the figures? It's been the same way for over ten years. Let it go man.

Exulted Unicron wrote:and now comes the over inflated eBay priced sets

F****** scalpers. Couldn't they have limited it to one per person to avoid this type of thievery?

Counterpunch wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:"You're done son" "ya' brutha" ??? this is my kind of topic yo' 4 real

What's up G? We use proper punctuation in the hood yo.

So get right or get to stepping.

My bad.

If I had money coming out of my ears, I'dve bought at set.
Sadly, I have a life, so you know...

TBH I would'a thought they'd sold out long before now.

Nice to hear that the exclusives are selling. That's definitly a positive for FP.

Much be hard for some...to actually have a life and pay for con exclusives. Whoa. I can't believe we only had a year's notice of when Botcon was.

Good thing I have paid for mine. Paying for my room up at RI. Going to the Beach for a week. Hittin Baltimore for a rave. Going to NY to catch the Rock the Bells tour. Paying for that hotel room. Life's just not fair. I hate how we actually have to pay for things we actually want in life.

Flux Convoy wrote:Man, I am so tired of hearing the wah wah wah of people who didn't step up. If you didn't buy it when it was available, guess what? There's only you to blame. These would never have been available for sale any other way. Think otherwise? Well rock on with your conspiracy theories then. Just do it quietly so the rest of us don't have to listen to the whining. Why is it that every time Botcon rolls around people have to bitch about the availablity of the figures? It's been the same way for over ten years. Let it go man.

I don't consider myself a sarcastically mean person but Amen Flux Convoy! I couldn't have said that any better myself. I learned my lesson from the year before last when I missed out on the Ironhide repaint of Energon Towline. Damn he would've made an excellent addition to my Classics Autobot line up by now.

Those things saled like hotcakes and they still want to get rid of Classics

Flux Convoy wrote:Man, I am so tired of hearing the wah wah wah of people who didn't step up. If you didn't buy it when it was available, guess what? There's only you to blame. These would never have been available for sale any other way. Think otherwise? Well rock on with your conspiracy theories then. Just do it quietly so the rest of us don't have to listen to the whining. Why is it that every time Botcon rolls around people have to bitch about the availablity of the figures? It's been the same way for over ten years. Let it go man.

Well when you see something you would like to see on mass market and then you find out their exclusives and you have to pay money that you don't have cause your not a member you get a little PO!

Flux Convoy wrote:Man, I am so tired of hearing the wah wah wah of people who didn't step up. If you didn't buy it when it was available, guess what? There's only you to blame. These would never have been available for sale any other way. Think otherwise? Well rock on with your conspiracy theories then. Just do it quietly so the rest of us don't have to listen to the whining. Why is it that every time Botcon rolls around people have to bitch about the availablity of the figures? It's been the same way for over ten years. Let it go man.

The funniest thing is, if he were as poor as some of us are (I've never complained about not getting one, I knew from the get go, that I couldn't), he'd be one of those he's complaining about. But, since he's loaded, he can make fun of those who aren't.

Had I known in advance what the con exclusive were going to be and had not run into financial trouble last month I would certainly have picked these up. As it is Thrust is the only one that can't be simply repainted anyway.

Still I think the one point of contention is many believe this was a bad move on Hasbro's part as purely a financial decision. In past years there was maybe one figure in the set that was a must have. And even then most of the time it wasn't that great a figure anyway. Ironhide from towline is pretty obvious and if you had the painting and customizing skillsit wasn't really hard to make one of your own. This year Hasbro putting out a set that many people have been clamoring for since Cl SS was first revealled. A set that they could have made a lot more money on by selling as a production piece rather than a limited edition Con exclusive.

Cyclonus_3009 wrote:

Flux Convoy wrote:Man, I am so tired of hearing the wah wah wah of people who didn't step up. If you didn't buy it when it was available, guess what? There's only you to blame. These would never have been available for sale any other way. Think otherwise? Well rock on with your conspiracy theories then. Just do it quietly so the rest of us don't have to listen to the whining. Why is it that every time Botcon rolls around people have to bitch about the availablity of the figures? It's been the same way for over ten years. Let it go man.

Well when you see something you would like to see on mass market and then you find out their exclusives and you have to pay money that you don't have cause your not a member you get a little PO!

Here's the thing, and I even stated this in my original post... They were never coming to retail in the first place. These figures and Botcon itself have been planned for a good long time. With these being part of the exclusives, they would never have come out any other way. Being a club member only shaves forty bucks off the registration anyway. Lastly no, I wouldn't be PO'd because if I want something bad enough I make it work for me. Everyone has the means to raise a couple hundred bucks in a few months time. Whether it's by selling things, working your job or tucking away lawn mowing money. It doesn't matter. Regardless of what I have or will ever say people will always complain and say they aren't able to do something. What you do about it shows your measure. I don't mean to sound harsh. It just gets under my skin.

TENIME_art wrote:

Flux Convoy wrote:Man, I am so tired of hearing the wah wah wah of people who didn't step up. If you didn't buy it when it was available, guess what? There's only you to blame. These would never have been available for sale any other way. Think otherwise? Well rock on with your conspiracy theories then. Just do it quietly so the rest of us don't have to listen to the whining. Why is it that every time Botcon rolls around people have to bitch about the availablity of the figures? It's been the same way for over ten years. Let it go man.

The funniest thing is, if he were as poor as some of us are (I've never complained about not getting one, I knew from the get go, that I couldn't), he'd be one of those he's complaining about. But, since he's loaded, he can make fun of those who aren't.

No the funniest thing is watching you make an ass of yourself as you presume to know me or what I earn. I'm hardly loaded. I have bills just like everyone. I have a full car insurance payment coming up in the same week as Botcon, I'm going through a divorce I didn't want and I have the added costs of attending, flying to, staying and buying the add ons at Botcon. I'm not making fun of anyone I'm stating that I'm sick of seeing the inanity of people who refuse to make life work for them. I'm emotionally in a world of hurt and my finances aren't the greatest but I wouldn't let anything stop me. I deserve to be happy for 3 days straight and I made it work. Don't want to try? Fine, not my problem.

Rock on brother

I don't think people should be so upset. Can't people who aren't going to get this set be happy for those that are?

TENIME_art wrote:But, since he's loaded, he can make fun of those who aren't.

I'm loaded.

But that's largely due to time travel.

Anyway, in the future, Wellfare covers Botcon.

Let's bring it back guys... calm down.

The points have been hashed to death...let's leave them buried now, okay???

tigertracks 24 wrote:Let's bring it back guys... calm down.

The points have been hashed to death...let's leave them buried now, okay???

I second that!

tigertracks 24 wrote:Let's bring it back guys... calm down.

The points have been hashed to death...let's leave them buried now, okay???

In the future, nothing stays buried.

Counterpunch wrote:In the future, nothing stays buried.

That sounds like a movie tagline. The unhappy smiley could be the movie logo and will become even more familiar than the Ghostbusters badge.

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do know that I can't believe we're having a Botcon Classics debate again after CB slapped up a sticky the other week.

Leonardo wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:In the future, nothing stays buried.

That sounds like a movie tagline. The unhappy smiley could be the movie logo and will become even more familiar than the Ghostbusters badge.

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do know that I can't believe we're having a Botcon Classics debate again after CB slapped up a sticky the other week.

In the future, not reading stickies is punishable by death.

Counterpunch wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:In the future, nothing stays buried.

That sounds like a movie tagline. The unhappy smiley could be the movie logo and will become even more familiar than the Ghostbusters badge.

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do know that I can't believe we're having a Botcon Classics debate again after CB slapped up a sticky the other week.

In the future, not reading stickies is punishable by death.

Sounds like a dream.

do can they still release Thundercracker in general retail if they put him in his Action Master rainbow colors?

They can release all of them to retail so long as they don't use the same paint scheme as the Botcon figures.

Koloth wrote:They can release all of them to retail so long as they don't use the same paint scheme as the Botcon figures.

Actually, no they can't.

FunPublications owns the wings on Thrust and the headmold on Dreadwind.

Those two are entirely out.

Pete at Botcon basically said that there is no way Hasbro can or will release these figures. FunPublications owns them the same way that Bandai owns the G1 Jetfire mold.

Counterpunch wrote:

Koloth wrote:They can release all of them to retail so long as they don't use the same paint scheme as the Botcon figures.

Actually, no they can't.

FunPublications owns the wings on Thrust and the headmold on Dreadwind.

Those two are entirely out.

Pete at Botcon basically said that there is no way Hasbro can or will release these figures. FunPublications owns them the same way that Bandai owns the G1 Jetfire mold.

Wait...is that in the future or right now? You've got me all confused.

TFBuyer wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Koloth wrote:They can release all of them to retail so long as they don't use the same paint scheme as the Botcon figures.

Actually, no they can't.

FunPublications owns the wings on Thrust and the headmold on Dreadwind.

Those two are entirely out.

Pete at Botcon basically said that there is no way Hasbro can or will release these figures. FunPublications owns them the same way that Bandai owns the G1 Jetfire mold.

Wait...is that in the future or right now? You've got me all confused.

I think it's a good thing, anyway. This way, those who have paid the BotCon prices won't be cheated later on down the line.

Yes, they have definitely screwed up royally. Can FP decide to go mint another set for a couple? The figures obviously sold well, and they could sell more. It's kinda silly that the con exclusives sold out a month before the convention opened. Does this usually happen? When if someone complains they got a defective one and need a replacement?

Scaleface wrote:Yes, they have definitely screwed up royally. Can FP decide to go mint another set for a couple? The figures obviously sold well, and they could sell more. It's kinda silly that the con exclusives sold out a month before the convention opened. Does this usually happen? When if someone complains they got a defective one and need a replacement?

Good point about the defectives. Maybe they have historical numbers as to the number of defectives that slip past QC and make that many % extra?

Or maybe if you get a defective one, ure just sol.

Scaleface wrote:Yes, they have definitely screwed up royally. Can FP decide to go mint another set for a couple? The figures obviously sold well, and they could sell more. It's kinda silly that the con exclusives sold out a month before the convention opened. Does this usually happen? When if someone complains they got a defective one and need a replacement?

Really, and not to be rude here, but does no one understand that as production numbers go up, costs of production go down?

Then this has to be balanced with the minimum number of units produced to turn a profit.

When the accountants say, predicted sales are X, cost is Y, and Profit is Z; in this instance Z < Y, then the toys do not get made.

It would appear that someone somewhere said, "we won't make a profit in producing another 3 sets of the jet mold."

I can understand the Botcon sets costing more than those produced for retail, but is there any reason why THIS set costs about twice the set of BotCon 2005?

With this set's popularity, you'd think they would at least consider making more loose sets and selling them online. I'd like a simple Seeker 3 pack for half price please. No need for Bugbite or Dreadwind (or whoever).

Scaleface wrote:I can understand the Botcon sets costing more than those produced for retail, but is there any reason why THIS set costs about twice the set of BotCon 2005?

Botcon 05' price was @ $265
(http://www.transformersclub.com/shop/index.cfm?do=detail&productid=838)
Botcon 07' price was $279

I don't understand what the big deal is?

Scaleface wrote:With this set's popularity, you'd think they would at least consider making more loose sets and selling them online. I'd like a simple Seeker 3 pack for half price please. No need for Bugbite or Dreadwind (or whoever).

Why? It's a huge drawing point for BotCon.

You know, everyone had a chance to buy a set. Everyone did. It was costly, but the option was there.

This is my last essay on this subject. It’s long, so forgive me.

The Classics line had a defined role (filler) and a defined budget. When the possibility of Wave 4 came up, I’m sure somebody in development said “Hey, we could do the additional seekers, a Sideswipe, and a bunch of other repaints” and somebody else, in upper management said, “We shut it down, because we’re not shipping anything new for two months prior to the movie toys. We want those shelves clear. We’re not going to compete with ourselves.”

What we can glean from Botcon is that there were 1050 boxed sets, + 400 loose, + a phantom ‘50' (50 unaccounted for sets that go to other retailers, con guests, etc) to come up with a total run of 1500. If we assume standard operating procedure for a small business venture, then we have to assume their working on a double mark-up (cost x 2). We’ll also assume that 66-70% of the boxed set price goes to administrative and con related expenses, and we come back to the loose bagged set price of $180.

$180 x 1500 sets = $270,000 divided by 2 (cost) = $135,000 divided by 5 molds = $27,000 per mold, cost or roughly $18 a figure on average. This model is based on the lowest possible profit margin, and the highest possible cost.

Now, I don’t know what Hasbro’s standard production run is, but I do know, based on store invoices (see Cujo’s Classic Devastator post waaay back), that the big retailers pay 70% of the retail cost. The standard clearance price on Target’s TF’s always come up at 30% off initially, so this theory seems to apply to all the big3 toy retailers.

The absolute lowest guess I can come up with is the rule of 2, that every major retailer gets 2 copies of a mass released figure. There are 1500 Targets, 1200 TRU’s, and over 4500 Wal-marts in the US alone. That would mean, at the least, every mass released mold has a production run of almost 15,000 (14,440) just in the United States. This example does not include K-mart, Freds, Wal-greens, etc...or any non-US market.

In the Classics example, for mass release (non-exclusives) there are 8 different characters, comprising 6 original molds, 1 repaint, and 1 retool (slightly reworked mold). Assuming the rule of 2, all of these figures were sold to mass market retailers for the sum of $806,400. If Hasbro also works on a double mark up strategy, we can assume:

$806,400 divided by 2 = $403,200 divided by 8 molds = $50,400 a piece divided by 14440 (the lowest number of figures on the market) = $3.49 apiece. This is the highest possible number Hasbro pays for a mass released TF s.

How much does a 30,000 figure run lower the cost? 50K? 100K? Based on the Botcon exclusive numbers versus the mass market assumptions, Hasbro gets nearly 10 times as many figures at roughly double the cost. I think that seems a little crazy myself, but there must be a cheap way to get these figures produced, because there are bootleggers all over China doing a good job at relatively low cost, so maybe these numbers aren’t too far off.

If we say that there are 75,000 figures pressed from any individual mold, and that Hasbro pays a flat $50,000 for 15,000 units, then they spend $250,000 per mold (x eight) for a cool 2 million. They would then pocket 2 million in profits. But this example is completely flawed, as the price that Hasbro pays for 75,000 figures should approach $125,000 (or far less, I’d guess), and give them a cost of $1.66 per figure. Add in a 25% mark-up for packaging, and Hasbro pays $2.10 per figure.

Which I still think is high. And repaints, conventional wisdom tells us, cost Hasbro less than the new molds. So are they half price? 1/4? If Bumblebee was produced at $2.85 a piece, was Cliffjumper produced at less than $1? I don’t know.

In order for Hasbro to ‘stop making profits’, they would have to press less than 5000 and sell them for less than $2.50 a piece. Hasbro earned over $640 million dollars last year, and holds the licenses on over a dozen high profile and profitable brands, including Marvel, Nerf, & My Little Pony. I’ve never seen the numbers for TF alone, but I think they made 154 million on Star Wars alone last year, but had to pay out 50+ million in licensing. We are talking about a company that, if the TF movie does well, could see sales top $800 million dollars next year. My numbers may be completely wrong, but Hasbro, rest assured, knows exactly what they are doing.

3 seekers don’t break the bank, or even cause them momentary financial concern. This decision had nothing to do with sales at the retail level. They didn’t want the hassle before the movie toys started shipping, wanted to keep their own shelf space clear at large retailers, and in the process, gave FP a great set of exclusives to drive up the interest for Botcon.

Done.