Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed

Tuesday, September 10th, 2019 6:50PM CDT

Category: Comic Book News
Posted by: D-Maximal_Primal Views: 18,600

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Thanks to IDW artist Andrew Griffith, we have a glimpse at one of the alternate covers for the upcoming IDW Transformers #12. The cover, which was done by Griffith, features Nautica in her favorite element: the deep sea, and very clearly enjoying herself.

Issue 12 of the IDW Transformers ongoing is set to be released within the next 2 weeks, and will star Nautica, marking her as another IDW 2005 original character that crosses over and plays some sort of major role in the new series.

You can check out the cover by Griffith below, and let us know what you think of it in the comments section below!

Credit(s): Andrew Griffith, IDW

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Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038693)
Posted by ScottyP on September 17th, 2019 @ 11:44am CDT

Big day for comics tomorrow. Death's Head 3, Aero 3 and House of X 4, gonna be a fun day. Wish there were good robot comics to mention.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038757)
Posted by Stargrave on September 18th, 2019 @ 2:43am CDT

Arriving in comic shops today is issue 12 of the ongoing IDW Transformers title and thanks to Graphic Policy we have the full preview. In this issue we see the introduction of long time fan favorite Nautica, seen here as a xeno-relations expert. Not sold yet? Enjoy the full preview below and see if it motivates you to get out to your local comic shop to get your issue today. You'll have your choice of covers too with cover A by the awesome Alex Milne, cover B by the amazing Andrew Griffith with colors by titanic Thomas Deer, and the retailer incentive cover by jamming Jeffrey Veregge.

Share your thoughts in the forum and as always stay tuned to Seibertron for the ultimate in Transformers news!

Here's the summary from Graphic's Policy:
"Out in the vast galaxy, Cybertronian explorers encounter all manner of beings—some friendly and some in stern opposition to Cybertronian expansion. When relations start to crumble and violence is threatened, there’s only one bot to turn to—Nautica, head of xeno-relations."

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038769)
Posted by Ironhidensh on September 18th, 2019 @ 7:31am CDT

ScottyP wrote:Big day for comics tomorrow. Death's Head 3, Aero 3 and House of X 4, gonna be a fun day. Wish there were good robot comics to mention.

Actually, it was House of X #5, and it was a doosey.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038773)
Posted by Stargrave on September 18th, 2019 @ 8:51am CDT

12 issue, 12 months.

Year in a snapshot gang what do you think of this first maxi-chapter of the new Transformers?

Where do you see the series going from here?

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038780)
Posted by ZeroWolf on September 18th, 2019 @ 10:14am CDT

Stargrave wrote:12 issue, 12 months.

Year in a snapshot gang what do you think of this first maxi-chapter of the new Transformers?

Where do you see the series going from here?

Thats not entirely accurate as the series debuted in March

this time last year the Unicron miniseries was lurching to its conclusion and we wondered how Lost Light was going to tie into things but we only had one issue left... And we were kept waiting on the last Optimus Prime issue.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038783)
Posted by Stargrave on September 18th, 2019 @ 10:34am CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:
Stargrave wrote:12 issue, 12 months.

Year in a snapshot gang what do you think of this first maxi-chapter of the new Transformers?

Where do you see the series going from here?

Thats not entirely accurate as the series debuted in March this time last year the Unicron miniseries was lurching to its conclusion and we wondered how Lost Light was going to tie into things but we only had one issue left... And we were kept waiting on the last Optimus Prime issue.

You know I didn’t think it could have been a full year yet I was like dang that can’t be right - how did they crank 12 issues out already?

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038786)
Posted by ZeroWolf on September 18th, 2019 @ 10:50am CDT

Easy, two issues a month

, hopefully Galaxies will pick up the slack from this series, I'm not feeling much of a pull now to collect the trade paperback

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038793)
Posted by Stargrave on September 18th, 2019 @ 11:13am CDT

ZeroWolf wrote:Easy, two issues a month , hopefully Galaxies will pick up the slack from this series, I'm not feeling much of a pull now to collect the trade paperback

Well i mean if you go and use math like that then yeah ok that totally makes sense :oops:

Totally thought it was a monthly not a bi monthly. I haven’t been regularly into comics for too long. I bought the first two issues but honestly am waiting for a collected edition I can just power through.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038795)
Posted by Ironhidensh on September 18th, 2019 @ 11:20am CDT

Stargrave wrote:12 issue, 12 months.

Year in a snapshot gang what do you think of this first maxi-chapter of the new Transformers?

Where do you see the series going from here?

Based on what I've read so far (I quit on the series at issue

, nowhere meaningful. I'll give galaxies a try, but that is based solely on ScottyP's endorsement. When the Ghostbuster crossover is out on trade, I'll get that on Dmax's endorsement.

But for the main series? At this point it is unsalvageable to me.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038796)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on September 18th, 2019 @ 11:23am CDT

1. I love MTMTE/LL Nautica's function and personality. She's perfect and should never change.
2. 2019 IDW Nautica is completely different, effectively a new character.
3. I love 2019 IDW Nautica's function and personality. She's perfect and should never change.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038797)
Posted by ZeroWolf on September 18th, 2019 @ 11:25am CDT

AcademyofDrX wrote:1. I love MTMTE/LL Nautica's function and personality. She's perfect and should never change.
2. 2019 IDW Nautica is completely different, effectively a new character.
3. I love 2019 IDW Nautica's function and personality. She's perfect and should never change.

So what you're saying is Nautica is perfect no matter what :lol:

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038836)
Posted by D-Maximal_Primal on September 18th, 2019 @ 6:04pm CDT

I enjoyed the story for Nautica and Roadrage. I enjoyed those 2, but not so much the story. Which lines up so far where the few good points about this series has been, in characters that I fell in love with previously and are still pretty good (Cyclonus, Nautica, and new one Roadrage)

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038841)
Posted by ScottyP on September 18th, 2019 @ 6:17pm CDT

I can't believe the first page of this issue was an info dump on random space alien species and some of the boring political climate surrounding them.

Pitre-Durocher did a great job without a lot to work with. Art on this was wonderful but the story, yikes. This story is not good. I've never been so entirely indifferent towards a Transformers story. At least Energon and Revenge of the Fallen had the gumption to just be plain old bad in most ways but at least it was fun to watch the trainwreck.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038854)
Posted by william-james88 on September 18th, 2019 @ 7:41pm CDT

ScottyP wrote:I can't believe the first page of this issue was an info dump on random space alien species and some of the boring political climate surrounding them.

Pitre-Durocher did a great job without a lot to work with. Art on this was wonderful but the story, yikes. This story is not good. I've never been so entirely indifferent towards a Transformers story. At least Energon and Revenge of the Fallen had the gumption to just be plain old bad in most ways but at least it was fun to watch the trainwreck.

I agree with the notion that this isnt even bad in a good way. Also, fair warning, I will be using some of what you just wrote in the review I am writing. I am rather brash in my reviews when it comes to the negative and that sums up some of my thoughts.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038861)
Posted by william-james88 on September 18th, 2019 @ 8:42pm CDT

A Bold New Era. Of Loneliness.
A Review of Transformers #12 and a Check-in On The "Bold New Era" After 12 Issues

Some Spoilers Were Unavoidable

IDW brought Transformers comics in a whole new spotlight starting with "Chaos Theory", followed by the "Death of Optimus Prime" and two new titles giving fans a wider breadth of the lore in a post war world. It brought a lot of fans into the fold. Roughly eight years have since passed, time marched on, fans slowly left through attrition and another completely fresh relaunch happened.

Now six months in, how's it been going? Well, Transformers fans are discussing X-Men comics instead and some of us aren't even really X-Men fans.

Since part of the goal here is to review Transformers #12, let's do that. The dialogue can get really grating in it's unnatural feel with lines like "We do not need to take this home with us. Home. If that is what it still is. We'll find out, I suppose." which feels more like it was written by Thundercracker for one of his films. Then there are just really excruciating sentences to read, filled to the brim with boredom, like these panels.

Everything isn't terrible, because seeing more Nautica is welcome and it's very fun to see Road Rage at all, in any capacity. Outside of a couple of fun interactions they're either world-building through exposition or doing just enough token actions to move the issue's "chase" plot forward. Ultimately, they're chasing an alien who planted a bomb, which is very similar to the oversimplified notions of radicalized insurgents we see in other fiction when trying to mirror aspects of the war on terror.

This brief interaction with an alien species reminds me of a problem that plagues the series and the various side plots dealing with alien/organic species and their politics. Why would we care about Transformers playing tightrope politics with random space aliens? We might if there were characters of said races helping out the Transformers or in direct conflict with them as a means of framing some wider message about expansionism or xenophobia or just the wonders of the unknown. This series really wants you to think it's doing that, even going out of its way with the first page of this issue being an info dump on random space alien species and some of the boring political climate surrounding them (now I know what those people felt when given reading material before seeing David Lynch's Dune on the big screen). However, the fact that little time is spent with the aliens overall make them feel more like a nuisance to the story rather than complimenting it.

What was enjoyable though was the notion that all mechanical creations have a mind, some are simply more basic than others and Nautica interacting with a bomb was probably the highlight of the issue. That complimented the Transformers mythos.

The goal of this issue seemed to be to introduce Nautica and Road Rage as a pair, not necessarily a romantic one, and it continues a general theme that's echoed throughout this series of recapturing the idea from the previous comics of fun relationships some bots have with eachother, without yet producing anything truly great. None of the pairs or interactions here are even close to Megatron and Rodimus from the previous series, for instance. Instead, with the partnerships we have seen, like Orion Pax and Megatron, Bumblebee and Windblade, Prowl and Chromia, the characters can be switched at random and aside from the change in political status (oh joy!) there would be little change to how they act with eachother.

For once I have no issues with the art. Sara Pitre-Durocher is on art duties here and she gives us a wonderful looking issue. She did a great job without a lot to work with. Colourist Joana Lafuente complimented the line art perfectly and all bots look as they should. I really like seeing the Road Rage MP toy used as a basis here for a smoother design and Nautica looks as great as you'd hope with her being the star of the issue.

The covers are easily the best part of this issue, they all look phenomenal. The main cover is handled by Alex Milne. The other covers are handled by Andrew Griffith and Jeffrey Veregge. You can also find all the cover images, full credits for the issue and a list of all the characters that appear in the book through our Vector Sigma Database page for Transformers #12.

Verdict

The issue wasn't terrible but there was nothing in it I cared much for aside from the way the characters were drawn and that bit about all mechanical beings/inventions able to talk to eachother at a basic level. It made me appreciate how good my fridge has been to me, always being on the task, keeping my food cold and bacteria free.

Final Score - Transformers #12
.

out of

The part that really works against this issue though is that it's technically an arc closer. Yeah, it doesn't feel like it in the slightest and will make for an odd first trade/hardcover, but that's what IDW chose to do. This makes it an odd issue to use to look back on the run so far, though I did try to cover that in my review. In the end, I am not enjoying this series much. The Transformers civil war offered us some great moments, the post war stories were on another level, but this pre war stuff is the most boring run I have ever read in any comic. And I worked in a comic store for years, reading everything I could. None of it is outrageously bad though, just uneventful and unengaging and I am not sure if that is worse or not.

Score So Far- Transformers #1-12
(This ignores individual review scores)
.

out of

Do better.

You can pick it up at the Seibertron.com eBay store or at your local shop, check here to find the closest shop to you.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038884)
Posted by snavej on September 19th, 2019 @ 6:42am CDT

At least they're interacting with other species in different ways than usual. You'd expect them to do that if they don't have a non-interference policy.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038889)
Posted by ScottyP on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:23am CDT

Ironhidensh wrote:
ScottyP wrote:Big day for comics tomorrow. Death's Head 3, Aero 3 and House of X 4, gonna be a fun day. Wish there were good robot comics to mention.

Actually, it was House of X #5, and it was a doosey.

Ah, right, yes. And it was extremely good. I wanted something like this from the TF relaunch :'( Subversions of the familiar, clever twisty-twists, nods and deep cut references to the past that don't interfere with newbies' enjoyment (like Storm/Jean Grey in HoX 5, I got the point fine from just context and later saw online what it was referencing, which I was totally unfamiliar with.)

Also Death's Head 3 had plenty of robot stuff, just not Cybertronian robot stuff, so I was wrong on that point too :lol:

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038892)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:36am CDT

ScottyP wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:
ScottyP wrote:Big day for comics tomorrow. Death's Head 3, Aero 3 and House of X 4, gonna be a fun day. Wish there were good robot comics to mention.

Actually, it was House of X #5, and it was a doosey.
Ah, right, yes. And it was extremely good. I wanted something like this from the TF relaunch :'( Subversions of the familiar, clever twisty-twists, nods and deep cut references to the past that don't interfere with newbies' enjoyment (like Storm/Jean Grey in HoX 5, I got the point fine from just context and later saw online what it was referencing, which I was totally unfamiliar with.)

Also Death's Head 3 had plenty of robot stuff, just not Cybertronian robot stuff, so I was wrong on that point too

About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038893)
Posted by Comic_27 on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:36am CDT

Plot Twist: The previous universe didn't end - "A Bold New Era" is actually just Thundercracker making a Transformers movie despite not know what people were actually doing, so He's trying his best with what he can.

(Even if the previous universe DID end, it wouldn't really matter. Actually, it might make things better, since the Lost Light can jump between universes. Who knows? Maybe this "Bold New Era" is taking place in the new universe we saw in Lost Light #25.)

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038895)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:45am CDT

I would adore the TF equivalent of HoX/PoX, but I don't think that's a realistic standard. The X-Men wing of the Marvel universe as much more narrative history and depth than TF's, so there is a lot for the creators to build on. There may be six million years of Cybertronian history, but most of it is just "war" or "peace."

I understand and sympathise with the criticisms, but I don't think Ruckley et al get enough credit for the amount of worldbuilding they are doing in a relatively short amount of time. Elements of Cybertronian social structure are directly inherited from earlier incarnations, but unified Cybertron's domestic political history and approach to intergalactic diplomacy are almost entirely new. It's very hard to dramatize those ideas in just a dozen issues of a 30-page comic book.

I guess my view is that it's fair to criticize the series for what it's not doing well, largely by design; however, I also want to praise it for what it's trying to do, even if it doesn't always succeed.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038896)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:54am CDT

william-james88 wrote:About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

You didn't ask me, but my recommendation would be to start with the 2013-2015 Uncanny X-Men series written by Brian Michael Bendis. The tone is similar, and many of its characters are integral to the new series. That ran for 3 years.

It's outside of your timeframe criteria, but I strongly encourage you to read New X-Men written by Grant Morrison. That series came out in 2001-2004, and it is the strongest inspiration for what Hickman is doing. There are many individual scenes in HoX/PoX that directly homage it, and the new book's use of time in its narrative structure mirrors the end of the Morrison run.

New X-Men is also the best X-Men series in its history, and its 4-year continuous story is one of the best in modern superhero comics generally.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038897)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on September 19th, 2019 @ 10:00am CDT

I want to talk about this a lot more. If anyone would like it, I can put together a HoX / PoX readers' guide with recommended reading and other background over in the General Discussion forum. I really love this book.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038899)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 10:24am CDT

AcademyofDrX wrote:It's outside of your timeframe criteria, but I strongly encourage you to read New X-Men written by Grant Morrison. That series came out in 2001-2004, and it is the strongest inspiration for what Hickman is doing. There are many individual scenes in HoX/PoX that directly homage it, and the new book's use of time in its narrative structure mirrors the end of the Morrison run.

New X-Men is also the best X-Men series in its history, and its 4-year continuous story is one of the best in modern superhero comics generally.

Oh dont you worry about that, I know that series quite well and agree with you (Mark Silvestri drawing Wolverin doing Tai Chi is probably the greatest thing I have ever seen). Glad to know aspects are coming back. The last think I read was Avengers vs X-Men and I kinda stopped after that.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038900)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 10:25am CDT

AcademyofDrX wrote:I want to talk about this a lot more. If anyone would like it, I can put together a HoX / PoX readers' guide with recommended reading and other background over in the General Discussion forum. I really love this book.

Sure, that sounds fun.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038903)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on September 19th, 2019 @ 11:27am CDT

I think I'm about two years behind, and I don't think I've been missing anything in HoX. That Bendis UXM run isn't mandatory, but I do think it will help. It was the series immediately after AvX.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038904)
Posted by ScottyP on September 19th, 2019 @ 12:08pm CDT

AcademyofDrX wrote:I would adore the TF equivalent of HoX/PoX, but I don't think that's a realistic standard.

But it's what reading RiD and MTMTE was like, to me, so I think it's completely fair. Doesn't have to be two books or two narratives, I'm hoping for better plotting with a long-game in mind that uses its characters wisely while making the reader care or at least empathize with them so when confluct occurs it has impact.

One of the best moments in this run has been Rubble's death (ignoring the 'meh' art in that scene) because Rubble was built up and like him or not, he meant something to the story. Nothing's filled that void since and I think that's where I turned from enjoying the series with some quibbles to being incomprehensibly bored by it.

AcademyofDrX wrote:
william-james88 wrote:About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

You didn't ask me, but my recommendation would be to start with the 2013-2015 Uncanny X-Men series written by Brian Michael Bendis. The tone is similar, and many of its characters are integral to the new series. That ran for 3 years.

Good info, thanks! I have gone into it blindly. I watched the cartoon some in the 90s and read some of the books then but nothing too deep. PoX has been pretty confusing for me but only from the standpoint of not knowing who most of the characters are. The wider plot is still very clear, or at least feels as clear as it could be since I think some of it being muddy is the point. Anyway yeah I'll go look for that other thread ;)^

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038906)
Posted by AllNewSuperRobot on September 19th, 2019 @ 12:27pm CDT

william-james88 wrote:About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

Important to note: It isn't a crossover, it is a reboot.

New X-Men By Grant Morrison
Phoenix Endsong (redundant now)
Astonishing X-Men By Joss Whedon

Secondary X-Books:
Uncanny X-Force by Rick Remender
X-Men Legacy by Si Spurrier
X-Factor by Peter David

Essentially those are the only runs of the past 19 years you need to be aware of.

Jonathan Hickman is using lore far older and more relevant than anything Bendis wasted pages with. HoX/Po10 is actually refreshingly self contained. It also better depicted a reboot in the respective first issues of HoX & Po10, than IDW 2.0 has managed in 12.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038907)
Posted by sol magnus on September 19th, 2019 @ 12:29pm CDT

ScottyP wrote:Good info, thanks! I have gone into it blindly. I watched the cartoon some in the 90s and read some of the books then but nothing too deep. PoX has been pretty confusing for me but only from the standpoint of not knowing who most of the characters are. The wider plot is still very clear, or at least feels as clear as it could be since I think some of it being muddy is the point. Anyway yeah I'll go look for that other thread

As aghast as I am to be talking about X-Men in a Transformers comic thread, what I will say for X-Men is it's being written by Jonathan Hickman. I'm not the greatest X-Men fan in the world, but I only barely resisted getting this story simply because Hickman was attached to it.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038911)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 1:01pm CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

Important to note: It isn't a crossover, it is a reboot.

Wait, what? So like nothing that happened before is cannon to this series? Prof X never had his brain inserted in red skull? Phoenix didn't die? No Emma and Cyclops telepathic affair? Scarlet Witch never said No More Mutants?

Also Scotty, if you never read X-Men, then yeah new X-Men by Grant Morrison followed by Astonishing X-Men by Joss Whedon is all you need. And X-Force by Remender is fun if you like Wolverine and stories of preventing the apocalypse.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038916)
Posted by AllNewSuperRobot on September 19th, 2019 @ 2:26pm CDT

william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

Important to note: It isn't a crossover, it is a reboot.

Wait, what? So like nothing that happened before is cannon to this series? (1)Prof X never had his brain inserted in red skull? (2)Phoenix didn't die? (3)No Emma and Cyclops telepathic affair? (4)Scarlet Witch never said No More Mutants?

In order:

Everything is still canon, it is just not relevent.

1) Not referenced
2) Not referenced
3) Not referenced
4) Referenced in supplementary material, only.
Just like in Alan Moore's Watchman, there are prose parts to each issue of HoX/Po10. During which the big events are referenced.

One of the central characters to this story is Moira MacTaggart. So only contextual stuff related to her matters. In the past several years Phoenix, Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Cyclops have died. There is no mention of this or their resurrections.

There is even a bit of shade thrown over the past few years of X-Men books. Wherein the era is described as "the lost decade" :lol:

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038918)
Posted by AcademyofDrX on September 19th, 2019 @ 2:27pm CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:About the X-Men, what arcs/runs from the past 5 years would one have to read to best be prepared for this current House of X crossover?

Important to note: It isn't a crossover, it is a reboot.

New X-Men By Grant Morrison
Phoenix Endsong (redundant now)
Astonishing X-Men By Joss Whedon

Secondary X-Books:
Uncanny X-Force by Rick Remender
X-Men Legacy by Si Spurrier
X-Factor by Peter David

Essentially those are the only runs of the past 19 years you need to be aware of.

Jonathan Hickman is using lore far older and more relevant than anything Bendis wasted pages with. HoX/Po10 is actually refreshingly self contained. It also better depicted a reboot in the respective first issues of HoX & Po10, than IDW 2.0 has managed in 12.

FWIW I vouch for all of these stories. I think Whedon's run is overrated, but a lot of people like it, and I understand why.

And I agree the heavy lore is much older than Bendis, but for better or for worse Bendis is a part of it. Based on Hickman's statements, I would bet he called Bendis to talk about using some of his characters. Plus you can't overlook the invocation of "House of M" in the title.

I've been grumpy about the ending of that series for a decade, but Hickman's found a way to almost justify it.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038919)
Posted by AllNewSuperRobot on September 19th, 2019 @ 2:35pm CDT

Everything right back to the 60's series is a 'part' of X-Men lore. But, unlike most other stuff, everything Bendis did has been unceremoniously swept under the rug since. Rightly so, as it is was a blight.

The equivalent of the McCarthy run of IDWverse.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038921)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 2:44pm CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
In order:

Everything is still canon, it is just not relevent.

1) Not referenced
2) Not referenced
3) Not referenced
4) Referenced in supplementary material, only.
Just like in Alan Moore's Watchman, there are prose parts to each issue of HoX/Po10. During which the big events are referenced.

One of the central characters to this story is Moira MacTaggart. So only contextual stuff related to her matters. In the past several years Phoenix, Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Cyclops have died. There is no mention of this or their resurrections.

There is even a bit of shade thrown over the past few years of X-Men books. Wherein the era is described as "the lost decade"

yeah that does feel like a reboot alright, or at least so much as can be accepted when still being within the larger Marvel universe (which I assume it is). Man, this sucks in a way since a friend of mine just lent me all the X-Men comics I missed in the past 6 years and it all feels like a waste now when I could simply be reading these issues instead.

AcademyofDrX wrote:
FWIW I vouch for all of these stories. I think Whedon's run is overrated, but a lot of people like it, and I understand why.

And I agree the heavy lore is much older than Bendis, but for better or for worse Bendis is a part of it. Based on Hickman's statements, I would bet he called Bendis to talk about using some of his characters. Plus you can't overlook the invocation of "House of M" in the title.

I've been grumpy about the ending of that series for a decade, but Hickman's found a way to almost justify it.

It is overrated, but only because it was heralded as the best x-men comic of all time (even winning the award for best comic series that year). It has my favourite Cyclops story/moment though.

Also, while New X-Men was great, there is an added element of familiarity to Joss Whedon's team and costumes, which inspires good times. Also the art is more cohesive. Some of the art in New X-Men is really bad.

And yes, the fact that this new serie's name is a rather big reference to House of M simply made me assume that there was a connection there.

About Hickman, while I absolutely adored some of his work (FF), his later avengers stuff got really tedious. I could have really done without that meandering story where a not justice league come in.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038922)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 2:47pm CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Everything right back to the 60's series is a 'part' of X-Men lore. But, unlike most other stuff, everything Bendis did has been unceremoniously swept under the rug since. Rightly so, as it is was a blight.

The equivalent of the McCarthy run of IDWverse.

I wasn't a huge fan of what I read, but fraction was worse for me. Really hated those Greg Land Uncanny issues where nothing of substance happened.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038925)
Posted by AllNewSuperRobot on September 19th, 2019 @ 2:54pm CDT

Astonishing had two things going for it. The best written Cyclops of at least the past 20 years and the ending arc, "Unstoppable", is one of the best X-Men stories ever.

william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Everything right back to the 60's series is a 'part' of X-Men lore. But, unlike most other stuff, everything Bendis did has been unceremoniously swept under the rug since. Rightly so, as it is was a blight.

The equivalent of the McCarthy run of IDWverse.

I wasn't a huge fan of what I read, but fraction was worse for me. Really hated those Greg Land Uncanny issues where nothing of substance happened.

You'll note I compared Bendis to McCarthy, not Costa...

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038926)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 3:49pm CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Astonishing had two things going for it. The best written Cyclops of at least the past 20 years and the ending arc, "Unstoppable", is one of the best X-Men stories ever.

william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Everything right back to the 60's series is a 'part' of X-Men lore. But, unlike most other stuff, everything Bendis did has been unceremoniously swept under the rug since. Rightly so, as it is was a blight.

The equivalent of the McCarthy run of IDWverse.

I wasn't a huge fan of what I read, but fraction was worse for me. Really hated those Greg Land Uncanny issues where nothing of substance happened.

You'll note I compared Bendis to McCarthy, not Costa...

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038931)
Posted by Ironhidensh on September 19th, 2019 @ 5:45pm CDT

World building doesn’t matter if nobody gives a damn about the world.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038955)
Posted by Rodimus Prime on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:40pm CDT

What's the bigger problem with this title, the story or the pacing? Or are they equally bad? Would it be better if these 12 issues got reedited and cut down to say 9 or even 6 issues?

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038956)
Posted by william-james88 on September 19th, 2019 @ 9:43pm CDT

Rodimus Prime wrote:What's the bigger problem with this title, the story or the pacing? Or are they equally bad? Would it be better if these 12 issues got reedited and cut down to say 9 or even 6 issues?

I think the biggest issue is the pacing. The story is bland though.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2038990)
Posted by ScottyP on September 20th, 2019 @ 10:22am CDT

Making a list to go dig through Ultimate Comics' back issue warehouse ay lunchtime, thanks for all this info!

william-james88 wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:What's the bigger problem with this title, the story or the pacing? Or are they equally bad? Would it be better if these 12 issues got reedited and cut down to say 9 or even 6 issues?

I think the biggest issue is the pacing. The story is bland though.

I could deal with the pacing if the story was better and the pacing is making the story develop too slowly for it to feel like a good one. It's a feedback loop of crap.

The worldbuilding would be cool if there were characters that the reader cared about presenting the world through their actions, emotions, conflicts, interest or even relationships but since Rubble got offed there's been very little of this executed effectively.

I like the idea of what this series tries to do but something keeps stopping it from achieving relevance at every turn. It's either dull characters, poor dialogue, rushed art, lack of recognizing these are Transformers (though this has been a little better lately) and yes, tortoise-like pacing. Usually those don't all come together at once but when the issues pile up things start to wear thin. I'm genuinely shocked the sales attrition rate on this isn't higher - but maybe that's because X-Men has folks going to shops again

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039017)
Posted by william-james88 on September 20th, 2019 @ 1:24pm CDT

ScottyP wrote: It's a feedback loop of crap.

As for House of X/ Power of X HOLY SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!! I will be honest, I was super skeptical about the notion that this was an actual reboot. I mean really? But it is. And yeah, the only thing it really references is Grant Morrison's new X-Men which is great because that's the last time such pure and deep sci fi notions were explored. I really like the notion of Hickman just coming to a title and doing as if nothing before mattered (like he did with FF and Avengers) and knowing that whatever he does will probably be undone later. So might as well give something the readers will never forget. Very Morrison like.

By comparison, I am very surprised that the Transformers IDW series is not using their reboot as a truly new jumping on point for new ideas. Instead, a lot of it is just using things directly from the previous incarnation of the book.

EDIT: Oh man, I just read issue 5 and I am NOT sure how I feel about this. It is the boldest move I have ever seen the franchise go. It's a very good issue for sure, but man, they look and sound just like my x-men but are they really my x-men? I mean, this is nuts on a whole other level. And Scotty, yeah, to better appreciate issue 5 and know some of those characters involved, Bendis' Uncanny X-Men would be a prerequisite. Just so you see where some of these now ridiculously crucial characters come from.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039275)
Posted by partholon on September 23rd, 2019 @ 4:46am CDT

On the pacing /story thing I give the edge to the story being the problem (the writing altogether tbh).

But considering this book was coming out every 2 weeks and it STILL felt glacial that's gotta be some kind of record for bad pacing.

I still haven't been arsed to read past issue 8 and it astounds me to think at this stage the entire G2 comic from the 90s was done and dusted.

Look at it this way lads, where do you think we'd be now if we were talking about issue 12 of an Alex milne / Jonathan Hickman run?

Now THAT would be a "bold new era" if he came up with anything like his FF/xmen work.

The moral of the story is simple. Stop hiring hacks idw

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039289)
Posted by william-james88 on September 23rd, 2019 @ 8:56am CDT

partholon wrote:Look at it this way lads, where do you think we'd be now if we were talking about issue 12 of a Jonathan Hickman run?

By issue 2 we had already experienced 9 lifetimes of stories, literally.

And by issue 5, I am going through an existential crisis.

But it's not a fair comparison since this is not necessarily what I want to read in a Transformers comic. I will gladly take something half way.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039291)
Posted by AllNewSuperRobot on September 23rd, 2019 @ 9:11am CDT

Indeed. Compare like for like.

Where were we by issue 12 with Furman's -Ations? RiD?? MTMTE???

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039294)
Posted by sol magnus on September 23rd, 2019 @ 9:44am CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Indeed. Compare like for like.

Where were we by issue 12 with Furman's -Ations? RiD?? MTMTE???

I remember people saying the -ations were taking a long time.

RiD was complained about incessantly, especially next to MTMTE.

Bringing these up as comparison to this series doesn't inspire any confidence in your (you and others) objectivity regarding these proceedings.

I have no problem acknowledging the pacing issues - it feels at times as though things are happening, at other times it feels like nothing is happening. Some of the story points don't thrill me - Killing Brainstorm was the first quibble, and there are a few others. But I guess after 40 years of reading I'm just not expecting perfection.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039296)
Posted by william-james88 on September 23rd, 2019 @ 9:57am CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Indeed. Compare like for like.

Where were we by issue 12 with Furman's -Ations? RiD?? MTMTE???

I will be honest, of those only MTMTE had really good pacing. Stories would be quick and fun and not necessarily overarching. But that's because it was like a road movie with little adventures here and there making a greater whole. Wasn't a fan of RID. Optimus Prime had some serious pacing issues too (art was pretty good though). TAAO had decent pacing.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039297)
Posted by Ironhidensh on September 23rd, 2019 @ 10:00am CDT

Here is the real question: How many people are still buying this book because they actually like and enjoy it, and how many are doing it simply out of some sort of sense of responsibility and loyalty to the franchise?

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039300)
Posted by sol magnus on September 23rd, 2019 @ 10:30am CDT

Ironhidensh wrote:Here is the real question: How many people are still buying this book because they actually like and enjoy it, and how many are doing it simply out of some sort of sense of responsibility and loyalty to the franchise?

Since only like 5 people even post to this thread you'll never get a sample of any significant meaning.

I'll still go ahead and say I enjoy reading the issues, despite imperfections. Imperfections and quibbles can be improved. Cancellation requires a complete starting over, so I will err on the side of continuance.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039303)
Posted by AllNewSuperRobot on September 23rd, 2019 @ 10:36am CDT

sol magnus wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Indeed. Compare like for like.

Where were we by issue 12 with Furman's -Ations? RiD?? MTMTE???

I remember people saying the -ations were taking a long time.

RiD was complained about incessantly, especially next to MTMTE.

Bringing these up as comparison to this series doesn't inspire any confidence in your (you and others) objectivity regarding these proceedings.

Nonsense and that isn't the point. By comparing like for like, I mean comparing this book to other Transformer books, which is valid and 100% objective.
I also said where were we in those books by issue 12? In terms of story, world building etc
What had been achieved in those other books during a dozen issues.

Depending on where you place Megatron Origin, within 12 issues Furman's runs had: Infiltration, Stormbringer and the beginning of Escalation. Throwing in a handful of Spotlights among those arcs.

RiD had shoehorned introduced Bumblebee as Autobot Leader, Starscream as a rival, introduced the NAILS, established the post-war reinvention of Cybertron and by issue 12, Megatron had "returned".

MTMTE most importantly, solidified it's characterisation and gave new interpretations for virtually every cast member. To most who followed the book, it gave them characters they cared about and had empathy with.

That is just the cliff notes version too.

Now objectively list what IDW 2.0 has done uniquely off it's own back, without trading in on pre-existing continuity.

Re: Andrew Griffith Cover for IDW Transformers #12 Revealed (2039306)
Posted by william-james88 on September 23rd, 2019 @ 10:53am CDT

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Now objectively list what IDW 2.0 has done uniquely off it's own back, without trading in on pre-existing continuity.

It introduced the senate and different political groups and how one would deal with passing of a motion to delagate... I-)

But objectively, it did give us an idea of how megatron staged an uprising and how the decepticon symbol was formed, along with giving a backdrop on his relationship with Optimus. In the overarching story, that's pretty much where we are at in 12 issues.

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