A "Thank You" Note from Michael Bay and Accolades Trailer

D-340 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

D-340 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:I honestly find this level of comtempt for the man who helped revitalize the franchise astounding. Were the films everything they could have been? No. Were they perfect? Far from it. However despite this, even with how much of a base breaker RotF was among the core fans the film series has given Transformers a shot of popularity it's never seen before. You wish Bay had never directed the films? You may as well wish the Transformers franchise would have slowly withered away and died.

LOL. Transformers survived for 20 years prior to Bay's films. Hasbro woulda kept it going, Bay's films weren't the "saving the Transformers from total oblivion" factor that some would like to think they are.

You can appeal to the core audience, but that won't keep a franchise alive. The fact Hasbro had to reach out to Takara to even get a show produced says alot of were Transformers was headed at the time.

Also last I checked we as a fandom did nothing to earn Bay's respect. Protests, death threats, breaking into his house? If I was trying to make a film and the fans of the series did stuff like that I would neither respect them or cater to them. I may be a Transformers fan, but I also realize the people in this fanbase are pretty horrible examples of human beings: petty, childish, hateful, spiteful, and ungreatful for every consession Hasbro has made. I'd wager to say only Twilight fans are worse than us, and I only say that because I friggin' hate Twilight. I'm surprised Bay stuck with it for three films, paycheck or not.

If the core audience is children, yes it can. Hasbro did it, for quite some time. Yeah, Beast Machines was a misstep and not as popular(though I loved the series, I can see why it wasn't. It was way too dark), hence TransTech being scrapped. But Hasbro made the move, knowing it would be better for Transformers, which they were right. It kept the series relevant, and generated interest in a live action film. Like I said, the films made them more mainstream, but even without them, Transformers woulda been around in one way, shape or form. And it still woulda been popular, because of it's core audience, the kids. Every new series caters to the next generation of kids, that's why it didn't go any where in the first place.

As far as Bay's respect, who cares. Does the fandom really need the respect of a permanently prepubescent man child? And even if the fandom had Bay's respect, would that have changed anything? Would that have kept ROTF from being the absolute train wreck covered in elephant crap it was? Doubt it. It's got nothing to do with respecting the fandom, it's got to do with respecting the source material, which he doesn't. He could care less, it's a paycheck to him. Like I said before, if he coulda got away with not having the TF's in these movies at all, he'd have done it.

I enjoyed ROTF because of its action and humor, but because of the writers stike I'm sure it could of been better with a better flow.In the end it wasnt a terrible movie but it wasnt as awesome as it could have been.
As far as Bay I really belive he was excited about this movie and making TF as real as he could have.I read all the interviews as he was first making the movie I think the fandom beat him down a lot.

Whether you love or hate him as a director, I'm gonna miss him from the TF fandom. I felt he did really awesome in bringing them to life.

I think we all if not most of us can agree that as much as we hoped for we were not going to get a live action Transformers the Movie '86 when the films were first announced. And as much as most of us (especially G1 fans) hoped for a Spielberg or maybe even a Peter Jackson and shuttered with the announcement of Bay he made it a live action movie which I imagine is no easy feat. The brand is bigger. I've worked with kids since 1994 and never have I seen it so popular. No the movies werent perfect matter of fact some of it was crap but visually Bay made these robots come to life ( with the help of I.L.,M). Let's give him some slack. If we had got it 100% our way the live action movies would have been exactly like the '86 animated movie, fan favorite cult classics with no box office success.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Heh. I will undoubtedly enjoy this last film as a Topless Robot FAQ. The one written for the second film was the best part of ROTF:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bon ... 2_faqs.php

As far as a reboot goes- I can't wait. I haven't enjoyed a single aspect of the film series- nor have I bought a single toy, nor have I payed to see a single film.

I have bought a heck of a lot of the Classics, Animated, and WFC toys though.

When the reboot comes, I imagine it will be a joint Disney/Marvel offer, as Disney would love to get the Transformers in their basket, and Marvel has such a long creative history with the franchise.

Maybe some of the Pixar writers could even come and write a decent story with, I dunno, a few Robot Characters who actually have personality and depth. I know that sounds like an impossible task, but somehow I think they could manage.

i love topless robots stufff. should check out cracked.com as well. it is some funny piss taking material, for thoe who dont take the movies too seriously.

as for bay, yeh he is done, so be it. maybe dotm will be good, im going to see it anyway. and many like me will too. and then we will be included in the argument if the movie is poor, by saying look at the money it made.

the thing is this franchise was released at an optimum time, its a hollywood concept, the nostalgia market. you wait long enough for the core original fanbase to reach a certain age, then boom releasse new material. the sense of nostalgia with the oldies, like myself, will draw us to these movies. same thing with star wars.

then you make it simple as possible, to get the next current generation of kids, then boom, blockbuster heaven. Marketing sold this movie, not bay

5150 Cruiser wrote: Seeing posts like these...

How can you expect Bay, or anyone to want to respect the fandom with coment like this? Better yet, why would any director want to even attempt to reboot the movies if this is how your going to talk about him/her if their vison doesn't meet up to yours? This kind of crap talk makes me embarased to be part of the fandom. Some of you really don't know just how good we had it. You know who's directing the new G.I. Joe movie? The dude that directed the Justin Beiber movie. While i want any reboot to be sucsessfull, part of me wante Ewe Boll to direct the next reboot. Worse yet, the guy that directed the "Doom" movie. Then you haters will really see what "disrespecting" a franchise and source material is all about.

I was going to reply to everything, but ill reply to just this to keep it somewhat short.

When people 'like' or 'approve' of something, they generally buy it and the person(s)who made it make lots of money.

We don't all sit around on forum threads and post about how much we really, really liked something and continuously post about how much we like it....although, i once made a thread sometime back about how much i loved Animated after hating it for the first season.

So you don't see praise here, because we praise with out money. The people producing the content know, because of how much money they make.

Now, when something is terrible, we all still pay for it and then complain about how terrible it was or how terrible the person is who created it. And where else would we complain? I'm sure if i stuck my head out the window right now and screamed at the top of my lungs that i hated Micheal Bay, no one would care. In fact, you can bank on that.

So if i want to bring negative attention against the person who gladly took my money and then gave me a bag of shit in return, I would complain somewhere, where people would actually care, take notice, and respond. Such as seibertron.com.

Now, heres the "conundrum" that no one is getting here, aside from D-340 and a few others: We would gladly pay Micheal Bay for each of his movies. Not because hes a great director or had some wicked vision for the TF IP, but because of him taking the IP and making it noticeable and profitable for Hasbro, we now have so much more that we did'nt have 10 years ago. I hate Micheal Bay for making such shit Transformer movies as much as I love the guy for making the crap to sell movie tickets and make Hasbro money so that they would green light alot more projects, like "Transformers Prime", and "War for Cybertron", and the "Generations" toy line.

I'm not going to flame the younger crowd here posting that they loved the movie, because it was people like them, giving their money to Micheal Bay, that gave us older fans what we wanted.

I just absolutely hate, HATE the means that justified the ends and in this case, what was done with the movies. Thats my opinion. Flame it over and over all you like. Call me a immature fanboy....whatever, but in another 2-5 years, when the mainstream forgets about The Transformers and Micheal Bay makes some other crap movie im not going to watch, i'm gonna be the guy who still buys the comics, and still buys the toys, and still watches the cartoons because this is my hobby and this franchise or intellectual hobby is what I truly enjoy in life.

vegetacron wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: Seeing posts like these...

How can you expect Bay, or anyone to want to respect the fandom with coment like this? Better yet, why would any director want to even attempt to reboot the movies if this is how your going to talk about him/her if their vison doesn't meet up to yours? This kind of crap talk makes me embarased to be part of the fandom. Some of you really don't know just how good we had it. You know who's directing the new G.I. Joe movie? The dude that directed the Justin Beiber movie. While i want any reboot to be sucsessfull, part of me wante Ewe Boll to direct the next reboot. Worse yet, the guy that directed the "Doom" movie. Then you haters will really see what "disrespecting" a franchise and source material is all about.

I was going to reply to everything, but ill reply to just this to keep it somewhat short.

When people 'like' or 'approve' of something, they generally buy it and the person(s)who made it make lots of money.

We don't all sit around on forum threads and post about how much we really, really liked something and continuously post about how much we like it....although, i once made a thread sometime back about how much i loved Animated after hating it for the first season.

So you don't see praise here, because we praise with out money. The people producing the content know, because of how much money they make.

Now, when something is terrible, we all still pay for it and then complain about how terrible it was or how terrible the person is who created it. And where else would we complain? I'm sure if i stuck my head out the window right now and screamed at the top of my lungs that i hated Micheal Bay, no one would care. In fact, you can bank on that.

So if i want to bring negative attention against the person who gladly took my money and then gave me a bag of shit in return, I would complain somewhere, where people would actually care, take notice, and respond. Such as seibertron.com.

Now, heres the "conundrum" that no one is getting here, aside from D-340 and a few others: We would gladly pay Micheal Bay for each of his movies. Not because hes a great director or had some wicked vision for the TF IP, but because of him taking the IP and making it noticeable and profitable for Hasbro, we now have so much more that we did'nt have 10 years ago. I hate Micheal Bay for making such shit Transformer movies as much as I love the guy for making the crap to sell movie tickets and make Hasbro money so that they would green light alot more projects, like "Transformers Prime", and "War for Cybertron", and the "Generations" toy line.

I'm not going to flame the younger crowd here posting that they loved the movie, because it was people like them, giving their money to Micheal Bay, that gave us older fans what we wanted.

I just absolutely hate, HATE the means that justified the ends and in this case, what was done with the movies. Thats my opinion. Flame it over and over all you like. Call me a immature fanboy....whatever, but in another 2-5 years, when the mainstream forgets about The Transformers and Micheal Bay makes some other crap movie im not going to watch, i'm gonna be the guy who still buys the comics, and still buys the toys, and still watches the cartoons because this is my hobby and this franchise or intellectual hobby is what I truly enjoy in life.

I'm glad the movies happened, because they brought Transformers back into the spotlight and gave us lots of new toys. I'm not glad they were poorly written and directed. So I hope this is goodbye for good to all the big wigs involved, and that whatever comes next for live action movies has the quality of the G1 and Transformers Prime Cartoons, with plot and character development first, no more complexity in robot designs than necessary, and wittier and more tasteful humor and special effects. And yes, more robot dialogue voiced by Peter Cullen and Frank Welker and other great voice actors. I am looking forward to seeing the third movie in 3D and saying goodbye to this era of the franchise.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Heh. I will undoubtedly enjoy this last film as a Topless Robot FAQ. The one written for the second film was the best part of ROTF:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bon ... 2_faqs.php

Now THIS is hilarious. I just read thru the ROTF article and i was in tears from laughing so hard.

Blackstreak wrote:Whether you love or hate him as a director, I'm gonna miss him from the TF fandom. I felt he did really awesome in bringing them to life.

Finally, someone who agrees.

El Duque wrote:A couple of new updates from director Michael Bay's official website.

First, Michael Bay has posted a "Thank You" message on his official website to all the Transformers' fans of the world. He also encourages everyone to see Transformers DOTM in a high quality theater in 3D. See hiss message below.

I just want to take the opportunity to thank all the fans around the world for letting me have fun with the Transformers franchise. It has been a wonderful opportunity to have worked with about 4000 crew members around the world. These artists are some of the very best in the entire film business. I’m honored to have had you work along side me. We had an amazing time.

‘Dark of the Moon’ has some of the most technically challenging sequences ever shot. And shot in 3D. I must urge you to find the very best theatre and see this movie in that format. 3D was a forethought, not an afterthought in this movie. I’m glad Jim Cameron and Steven Spielberg really convinced me to shoot in this new technology. We used and invented many new techniques to make the 3D sharper, brighter and more color contrast. I think theatre owners heard their audience that they need to respect the specs of the projectors and not dim the bulbs to save money.

Many theaters are presenting it in the brand new 7.1 sound, which is awesome. This is the most complex, intricate sound track that me and my Academy Awarding winning sound team have done. They really out did themselves to make this a big picture experience. Hopefully you will have as much fun watching this movie as we all had making it.

Thanks,

Michael Bay

Second, a Transformers DOTM accolades trailer has been posted. Same as previous trailers, but with various positive reviews of the film overlaid. Click here to check it out on Vimeo.

Just goes to show you Bay's a better man than the people he tried to appease.

Mindmaster wrote:Finally, someone who agrees.

There's more of us than them, most of us are just content not to scream on forums about it.

I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

vegetacron wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:Heh. I will undoubtedly enjoy this last film as a Topless Robot FAQ. The one written for the second film was the best part of ROTF:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bon ... 2_faqs.php

Now THIS is hilarious. I just read thru the ROTF article and i was in tears from laughing so hard.

My brother read it in his Plinkett impression... I laughed hard.

I find it very sad how people are never satisfied.. theres always suggestions on how the movies should have been done but no one else delivers. People focus only on the negatives and not the positives of the TF movies which I think is unfair because we should be grateful for getting live action Tf movies in the first place. If you guys can make something better then by all means grab your camera and your crew then put your pro movie making skills to the test. A reboot sounds interesting but i cant imagine seeing the transformers in any other way, definitely not the G1 style.

People are calling for a reboot already?

I can't take much more of this fandom. I really can't. I just want to scream at the top of my lungs right now.

Thank you, Mr. Bay for your hard work. That being said, you could've been a bit more gracious accepting your PLASTIC award that you drew so much attention to.

Tekka wrote:I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

Now that he's out, I better not hear another bad word about him when the next TransFormers is ruined or if the director sucks. Bay will have had nothing to do with it at that point. If someone does, I'm gonna climb through the screen and slap someone, like a rabid monkey on roid rage.

vegetacron wrote: When people 'like' or 'approve' of something, they generally buy it and the person(s)who made it make lots of money.

We don't all sit around on forum threads and post about how much we really, really liked something and continuously post about how much we like it....although, i once made a thread sometime back about how much i loved Animated after hating it for the first season.

Fair enough. your correct that for the most pear, people will voice their opinion anout something they dislike before something they just "like".

vegetacron wrote:So you don't see praise here, because we praise with out money. The people producing the content know, because of how much money they make..

True. The amount of money people spend on a particular product says alot on how much they liked/enjoyed etc. But thats not the sole way to express ones aproval of any given subject. There have been plenty of threads here from people expressing their like for ROTF, as well as the movie verse in general.

Now, when something is terrible, we all still pay for it and then complain about how terrible it was or how terrible the person is who created it. And where else would we complain? I'm sure if i stuck my head out the window right now and screamed at the top of my lungs that i hated Micheal Bay, no one would care. In fact, you can bank on that.

So if i want to bring negative attention against the person who gladly took my money and then gave me a bag of shit in return, I would complain somewhere, where people would actually care, take notice, and respond. Such as seibertron.com.

See, your not getting my point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with voicing a negative opinion on something you don't like. Especialy if you paid for it and can't get a refund. BUt there's a difference between a negative coment, and telling someone to F*** off, you make shit movies, and saying that you don't care about respecting him or not. If thats the case, why should he respect you? And on that note, we disrespected him long before he "disrespected" us. Death treats, home being broken into.. and for what? Prime being a long nose Perterbuilt and having flames? Lame.
So in the end, complain all you want. Its your right. But expect the same level of "respect" back. Also, I don't know what you concider a "Younger crowd", but i'm 29 and grew up with G1. I liked both movies. They brought me out of my TF dark ages.Yes, i'm sure the somehow, the franchise would have continued without the movies, but it would have been alot less lonely road.

Autobot032 wrote:

Tekka wrote:I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

Now that he's out, I better not hear another bad word about him when the next TransFormers is ruined or if the director sucks. Bay will have had nothing to do with it at that point. If someone does, I'm gonna climb through the screen and slap someone, like a rabid monkey on roid rage.

I'm afraid that every Transformers series from now on will be tainted by the Bay, and the stench of Revenge of the Fallen will carry on into eternity. Transformers fans across the world will continue to curse his name ad infinitum until hell freezes over and Autobots fly.

Tekka wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Tekka wrote:I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

Now that he's out, I better not hear another bad word about him when the next TransFormers is ruined or if the director sucks. Bay will have had nothing to do with it at that point. If someone does, I'm gonna climb through the screen and slap someone, like a rabid monkey on roid rage.

I'm afraid that every Transformers series from now on will be tainted by the Bay, and the stench of Revenge of the Fallen will carry on into eternity. Transformers fans across the world will continue to curse his name ad infinitum until hell freezes over and Autobots fly.

But some autobots do fly...

Capt.Failure wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Tekka wrote:I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

Now that he's out, I better not hear another bad word about him when the next TransFormers is ruined or if the director sucks. Bay will have had nothing to do with it at that point. If someone does, I'm gonna climb through the screen and slap someone, like a rabid monkey on roid rage.

I'm afraid that every Transformers series from now on will be tainted by the Bay, and the stench of Revenge of the Fallen will carry on into eternity. Transformers fans across the world will continue to curse his name ad infinitum until hell freezes over and Autobots fly.

But some autobots do fly...

CURSE YOU MICHAEL BAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

I just wish some of the haters would direct their hatred towards Orci and Kurtzman. They're the ones who wrote the stuff in the first place.

Funny how people weren't happy or upset when they left! Nope, so much easier to hate on Bay.

That's okay, he's sitting back and laughing at you anyway. That's why I like the guy.

Burn wrote:I just wish some of the haters would direct their hatred towards Orci and Kurtzman. They're the ones who wrote the stuff in the first place.

Funny how people weren't happy or upset when they left! Nope, so much easier to hate on Bay.

That's okay, he's sitting back and laughing at you anyway. That's why I like the guy.

*Capt.Failure extends a closed fist to Burn*

Respect knuckles, bro...

Capt.Failure wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Tekka wrote:I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

Now that he's out, I better not hear another bad word about him when the next TransFormers is ruined or if the director sucks. Bay will have had nothing to do with it at that point. If someone does, I'm gonna climb through the screen and slap someone, like a rabid monkey on roid rage.

I'm afraid that every Transformers series from now on will be tainted by the Bay, and the stench of Revenge of the Fallen will carry on into eternity. Transformers fans across the world will continue to curse his name ad infinitum until hell freezes over and Autobots fly.

But some autobots do fly...

lol ah! you beat me to it!

... You do know G1 autobots could fly. Like all of 'm including Optimus (with Sideswipe's jetpack)

That being said, I think the last part of the trilogy will be the best.
I don't "hate" Mr. Bay or any of the makers, the movie had to be made for the mainstream. So G1 it could not be.
I do think they could've given other, personally more interesting, characters some more screen time in ROTF and although it was a bit of a letdown I still enjoy it. Just don't let awesome combiners like Devastator be owned by two minibots or some human boat, gawd...

It would be cool if a more serious big shot director took up the franchise.
But I don't think all future Transformers live action things will be "diseased" by ROTF what some other forum member posted.

3 more friggin days! I've been waiting for this move since november :s

You GUYS!!! You're not getting it!! Look how the joke plays out in every quote... My genius is WASTED on you!

Burn wrote:I just wish some of the haters would direct their hatred towards Orci and Kurtzman. They're the ones who wrote the stuff in the first place.

Funny how people weren't happy or upset when they left! Nope, so much easier to hate on Bay.

That's okay, he's sitting back and laughing at you anyway. That's why I like the guy.

Still, isn't he the guy responsible for penis jokes and the twins? I can stomach bad/corny writing, but some of the stuff in the movies where rather poor taste and immature and Bay certainly didn't help.

...yeah ok, he *is* a fun scapegoat. But that doesn't change he's to blame for some of the bad things.

Silverbolt007 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Tekka wrote:I will miss Michael Bay because he was a convenient scapegoat. If anything goes wrong anywhere in the world at any time, it's his fault... Even if it's not Transformers related.

Now that he's out, I better not hear another bad word about him when the next TransFormers is ruined or if the director sucks. Bay will have had nothing to do with it at that point. If someone does, I'm gonna climb through the screen and slap someone, like a rabid monkey on roid rage.

I'm afraid that every Transformers series from now on will be tainted by the Bay, and the stench of Revenge of the Fallen will carry on into eternity. Transformers fans across the world will continue to curse his name ad infinitum until hell freezes over and Autobots fly.

But some autobots do fly...

lol ah! you beat me to it!

u mad, bro?

Heh, kidding. It's all in good fun.

What's most obnoxious is that people who hate the movies still watch them and insult Bay. ..rghwwwwwwWWWWHy........?

"I hated the movie before seeing it, so obviously I had to see it and go online to tell the world how much I hated it. Now I'm going to read up on anything regarding a sequel, BASH and hate it, then go see it. Then go back online and complain about it and insult Bay. Not so finally, I'm going to the same for the last in the trilogy. DEMAND a reboot, and repeat the process."



I enjoyed the movies. Didn't love them. I see it as another take on the TF universe. My favorite take on the TF universe has been done by Dreamwave and IDW comics.

Burn wrote:I just wish some of the haters would direct their hatred towards Orci and Kurtzman. They're the ones who wrote the stuff in the first place.

Funny how people weren't happy or upset when they left! Nope, so much easier to hate on Bay.

That's okay, he's sitting back and laughing at you anyway. That's why I like the guy.

I just started posting again but I really like this Mod.Have you ever been to any Botcons?Have we met before?

ya know, lets look back a couple years. you know all this "BURN MICHAEL BAY" stuff? well, if dotm is as good as it looks, were all going to want him back... can you guys say irony?
who knows what the future may hold.
maybe if speilburge as director, he'll get to cameo with an acting part? I doubt it, but still, no bay will be VERY Noticeable in transformers 4.

I think its weird only Bay takes the blame.There are so many people involved in this that one guy can't do it all.How about Hasbro?This is there baby and they worked side by side with Bay.Bay had to get there approval and some of there designers worked with Bay.Then you have the writers and producers and the the movie company.I'm pretty sure deals have to be made here to get something better over here.I'm sure there are always sacrifices one side because another side wants there way on something.My brother works in the movie industry and he has worked on some of this stuff.Its never one persons fault theres always tons of people with there hand in the cookie jar.With the sucess of the first movie you have a lot more people wanting to get there touch or hand in the movie while they can.
In the end everyone can't have it the way they want not even Mr.Bay.Maybe your favorite character wasn't in it or they changed the story arc a little or there was some toliet humor.Did these things real ruin the movie?Just ask your self when it was over was it a fun movie?To me it was when it was all over I had fun and thats all i can hope for out of a movie.Its just a movie and a toy line to get my mind of stress in life even if its just for 2 hours.

5150 Cruiser wrote:See, your not getting my point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with voicing a negative opinion on something you don't like. Especialy if you paid for it and can't get a refund. BUt there's a difference between a negative coment, and telling someone to F*** off, you make shit movies, and saying that you don't care about respecting him or not. If thats the case, why should he respect you? And on that note, we disrespected him long before he "disrespected" us. Death treats, home being broken into.. and for what? Prime being a long nose Perterbuilt and having flames? Lame.

So in the end, complain all you want. Its your right. But expect the same level of "respect" back.

Honestly, the guy is so famous and makes so much money, he really, really doesn't care what an angry fanboy or ever an army of angry fanboys has to say about him. As long as he is making the money and turning a profit on his studio's investment, then thats all that matters to him. Just like someone else posted, "He just laughs at all this", because he can. But you won't find me running to his booth for an autograph if i see'm at a Botcon.

On that same note, im not the guy sending him death threats and breaking into his house or whatever. Now you're just generalizing me into a stereotype. At that same Botcon, i wouldn't be the guy wanting to take a swing at him. I just don't like how he did the movies. Thats my opinion. I think he sucks, these movies suck, and anything he ever directs is going to suck. I'll definitely be happy if the IP gets a reboot and a better team makes a better movie.

5150 Cruiser wrote:Also, I don't know what you concider a "Younger crowd", but i'm 29 and grew up with G1. I liked both movies. They brought me out of my TF dark ages.Yes, i'm sure the somehow, the franchise would have continued without the movies, but it would have been alot less lonely road.

I don't know what you are trying to say here, so i'm going to improvise:

"Also, i don't know what you consider a "younger crowd", but i'm 29 and I grew up with G1. They brought Transformers out of the dark and i'm sure the franchise would have continued without the movies, but it would have taken longer."

And to that i say, you've completely missed the point of what i have been saying, only focusing on the negative things. I'm not going to re-write the post you are quoting me from, so please re-read it and comprehend it this time.

vulgar_wraith wrote:I think its weird only Bay takes the blame.There are so many people involved in this that one guy can't do it all.How about Hasbro?This is there baby and they worked side by side with Bay.Bay had to get there approval and some of there designers worked with Bay.Then you have the writers and producers and the the movie company.I'm pretty sure deals have to be made here to get something better over here.I'm sure there are always sacrifices one side because another side wants there way on something.

My brother works in the movie industry and he has worked on some of this stuff.Its never one persons fault theres always tons of people with there hand in the cookie jar.With the sucess of the first movie you have a lot more people wanting to get there touch or hand in the movie while they can.

In the end everyone can't have it the way they want not even Mr.Bay.Maybe your favorite character wasn't in it or they changed the story arc a little or there was some toliet humor.Did these things real ruin the movie?Just ask your self when it was over was it a fun movie?To me it was when it was all over I had fun and thats all i can hope for out of a movie.Its just a movie and a toy line to get my mind of stress in life even if its just for 2 hours.

Unlike Michael Bay, Hasbro produces and leases the Transformers IP out so much that they have about a 75/25% chance in hitting the mark to make the fan base happy. Meaning, that 75% of the stuff they say ok to is usually ok, while 25% of it is just utter crap. Those numbers could be off and i'm sure it would take a presidential poll to figure out the approval rating and all. lol

But thats kind of a 'to be expected'-type situation with Hasbro. People like you forget what Directors do. Directors direct movies. They influence how the story is going to be portrayed to an audience. If he says, "I want more military than Transformers", then we end up with the ROTF.

Was it a fun movie? The first was fun at first, because of the stupid simple attraction that it was a 'LIVE ACTION TRANSFORMERS MOVIE'. And then you watch it again and you begin to start making excuses for it as to why it did this and that wrong, but thats ok....cause theres going to be a second movie. And then you watch the second movie and its not fun, because the stupid simple attraction is gone and you are looking for a real, in-depth story with real characters and reasons for things going on in the stories and to see the characters brought to life and given some sorta life.....some sorta character that makes them memorable. But ROTF didn't have ANY of that. There was no substance there. About the ONLY character that will stick out in my mind is Optimus Prime and he was a memorable character long, long before Micheal Bay took a huge shit on this IP.

Now we're just days away from the 3rd installment and as dedicated as a TF fan as I am, i'm seriously asking myself if the $15 is really going to be worth or if i should just wait and download it off the internet like all the other disgruntled fans like me are going to do.... There is no fun in that. So to answer your question, "no".

go away mike

vegetacron wrote:

vulgar_wraith wrote:I think its weird only Bay takes the blame.There are so many people involved in this that one guy can't do it all.How about Hasbro?This is there baby and they worked side by side with Bay.Bay had to get there approval and some of there designers worked with Bay.Then you have the writers and producers and the the movie company.I'm pretty sure deals have to be made here to get something better over here.I'm sure there are always sacrifices one side because another side wants there way on something.

My brother works in the movie industry and he has worked on some of this stuff.Its never one persons fault theres always tons of people with there hand in the cookie jar.With the sucess of the first movie you have a lot more people wanting to get there touch or hand in the movie while they can.

In the end everyone can't have it the way they want not even Mr.Bay.Maybe your favorite character wasn't in it or they changed the story arc a little or there was some toliet humor.Did these things real ruin the movie?Just ask your self when it was over was it a fun movie?To me it was when it was all over I had fun and thats all i can hope for out of a movie.Its just a movie and a toy line to get my mind of stress in life even if its just for 2 hours.

Unlike Michael Bay, Hasbro produces and leases the Transformers IP out so much that they have about a 75/25% chance in hitting the mark to make the fan base happy. Meaning, that 75% of the stuff they say ok to is usually ok, while 25% of it is just utter crap. Those numbers could be off and i'm sure it would take a presidential poll to figure out the approval rating and all. lol

But thats kind of a 'to be expected'-type situation with Hasbro. People like you forget what Directors do. Directors direct movies. They influence how the story is going to be portrayed to an audience. If he says, "I want more military than Transformers", then we end up with the ROTF.

Was it a fun movie? The first was fun at first, because of the stupid simple attraction that it was a 'LIVE ACTION TRANSFORMERS MOVIE'. And then you watch it again and you begin to start making excuses for it as to why it did this and that wrong, but thats ok....cause theres going to be a second movie. And then you watch the second movie and its not fun, because the stupid simple attraction is gone and you are looking for a real, in-depth story with real characters and reasons for things going on in the stories and to see the characters brought to life and given some sorta life.....some sorta character that makes them memorable. But ROTF didn't have ANY of that. There was no substance there. About the ONLY character that will stick out in my mind is Optimus Prime and he was a memorable character long, long before Micheal Bay took a huge shit on this IP.

Now we're just days away from the 3rd installment and as dedicated as a TF fan as I am, i'm seriously asking myself if the $15 is really going to be worth or if i should just wait and download it off the internet like all the other disgruntled fans like me are going to do.... There is no fun in that. So to answer your question, "no".

I dunno, I thought both movies were fun. Alot of people thought both movies were fun (90% of the people interviewed for exit polls, 75% of those polled on Rottentomatoes). I guess those people's opinions don't count. You speak of Bay "taking a ****" on the franchise but it's more popular than ever now, and that kind of popularity isn't gained when people hate something that introduced them to it. Fact is Bay did something right or we'd have never seen a third film, and that something was make a popular, profitable two films before it. If that's your definition of Bay "relieving himself" on the franchise than I'm just unhappy he didn't do it more often.

vegetacron wrote:

vulgar_wraith wrote:I think its weird only Bay takes the blame.There are so many people involved in this that one guy can't do it all.How about Hasbro?This is there baby and they worked side by side with Bay.Bay had to get there approval and some of there designers worked with Bay.Then you have the writers and producers and the the movie company.I'm pretty sure deals have to be made here to get something better over here.I'm sure there are always sacrifices one side because another side wants there way on something.

My brother works in the movie industry and he has worked on some of this stuff.Its never one persons fault theres always tons of people with there hand in the cookie jar.With the sucess of the first movie you have a lot more people wanting to get there touch or hand in the movie while they can.

In the end everyone can't have it the way they want not even Mr.Bay.Maybe your favorite character wasn't in it or they changed the story arc a little or there was some toliet humor.Did these things real ruin the movie?Just ask your self when it was over was it a fun movie?To me it was when it was all over I had fun and thats all i can hope for out of a movie.Its just a movie and a toy line to get my mind of stress in life even if its just for 2 hours.

Unlike Michael Bay, Hasbro produces and leases the Transformers 3 Toys IP out so much that they have about a 75/25% chance in hitting the mark to make the fan base happy. Meaning, that 75% of the stuff they say ok to is usually ok, while 25% of it is just utter crap. Those numbers could be off and i'm sure it would take a presidential poll to figure out the approval rating and all. lol

But thats kind of a 'to be expected'-type situation with Hasbro. People like you forget what Directors do. Directors direct movies. They influence how the story is going to be portrayed to an audience. If he says, "I want more military than Transformers", then we end up with the ROTF.

Was it a fun movie? The first was fun at first, because of the stupid simple attraction that it was a 'LIVE ACTION TRANSFORMERS MOVIE'. And then you watch it again and you begin to start making excuses for it as to why it did this and that wrong, but thats ok....cause theres going to be a second movie. And then you watch the second movie and its not fun, because the stupid simple attraction is gone and you are looking for a real, in-depth story with real characters and reasons for things going on in the stories and to see the characters brought to life and given some sorta life.....some sorta character that makes them memorable. But ROTF didn't have ANY of that. There was no substance there. About the ONLY character that will stick out in my mind is Optimus Prime and he was a memorable character long, long before Micheal Bay took a huge shit on this IP.

Now we're just days away from the 3rd installment and as dedicated as a TF fan as I am, i'm seriously asking myself if the $15 is really going to be worth or if i should just wait and download it off the internet like all the other disgruntled fans like me are going to do.... There is no fun in that. So to answer your question, "no".

I think the movies are fun and are great mindless summer entertainment. They are not literary masterpieces. I still think the first movie was great because it was the first transformers in a while. I think the surprise factor is now lost.
______________________________________________________________________________________

I wish they had Lego Transformers. My two favorite lego sets are LEGO Star Wars Millennium Falcon and lego harry potter hogwarts castle. Toys Rule.

vulgar_wraith wrote:I just started posting again but I really like this Mod.Have you ever been to any Botcons?Have we met before?

They don't let me out of the country.

Capt.Failure wrote:I dunno, I thought both movies were fun. Alot of people thought both movies were fun (90% of the people interviewed for exit polls, 75% of those polled on Rottentomatoes). I guess those people's opinions don't count. You speak of Bay "taking a ****" on the franchise but it's more popular than ever now, and that kind of popularity isn't gained when people hate something that introduced them to it. Fact is Bay did something right or we'd have never seen a third film, and that something was make a popular, profitable two films before it. If that's your definition of Bay "relieving himself" on the franchise than I'm just unhappy he didn't do it more often.

And thats opinion and thus why we'll never reach a happy understanding and why this thread will go on and on until a moderator locks it. I don't waste my time at Rottentomatoes, so that fact is a little lost on me. I am a long time Transformer fan who went to see a Transformer movie that impressed upon me and/or gave me the opinion that the creative/production team (and therefore the director), sucked.

If you like the movies and want more, thats great. Good for you. Merry christmas. You're right, Transformers is THRIVING because of Micheal Bay and crew. But i know it would have been better with a different team behind it, so thats why i am saying, "Micheal Bay sucks. Lets reboot this already and move on."

There are plenty of people to blame for the films, not least of all the writers.

I would point out that those two geniuses are also responsible for basing the Star Trek reboot plot around "Spock Driving Too Slow."

I clapped when they left. And I will do the same here for MBay.

I really do think Disney will be offering the big bucks up pretty soon, with the intention of launching a new Marvel Transformers series.

I can hear the little cash registers going off in their heads right now as they plot out "Transformers Land."

It's a big IP, and as they collect things like The Muppets and Spider-man, I suppose it's only a matter of time.

More power to them.

vegetacron wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:I dunno, I thought both movies were fun. Alot of people thought both movies were fun (90% of the people interviewed for exit polls, 75% of those polled on Rottentomatoes). I guess those people's opinions don't count. You speak of Bay "taking a ****" on the franchise but it's more popular than ever now, and that kind of popularity isn't gained when people hate something that introduced them to it. Fact is Bay did something right or we'd have never seen a third film, and that something was make a popular, profitable two films before it. If that's your definition of Bay "relieving himself" on the franchise than I'm just unhappy he didn't do it more often.

And thats opinion and thus why we'll never reach a happy understanding and why this thread will go on and on until a moderator locks it. I don't waste my time at Rottentomatoes, so that fact is a little lost on me. I am a long time Transformer fan who went to see a Transformer movie that impressed upon me and/or gave me the opinion that the creative/production team (and therefore the director), sucked.

If you like the movies and want more, thats great. Good for you. Merry christmas. You're right, Transformers is THRIVING because of Micheal Bay and crew. But i know it would have been better with a different team behind it, so thats why i am saying, "Micheal Bay sucks. Lets reboot this already and move on."

And I can only imagine that if your little fantasy world were some other director and team made it, and it came out and had equal success you'd be saying, "Nolan/Snyder/Spielburg/Lucas/whoever sucks. Let's reboot this already and move on."

If anything the series will probably suffer without him. People are familiar with the new looks and style of these films and the level of action they brought to the screen and will want more of that. Expect the next set of films to not see the same success. Combined with the fandom's seething hatred of new things and it will be a long time before we see another surge in popularity and success for the series.

vegetacron wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:I dunno, I thought both movies were fun. Alot of people thought both movies were fun (90% of the people interviewed for exit polls, 75% of those polled on Rottentomatoes). I guess those people's opinions don't count. You speak of Bay "taking a ****" on the franchise but it's more popular than ever now, and that kind of popularity isn't gained when people hate something that introduced them to it. Fact is Bay did something right or we'd have never seen a third film, and that something was make a popular, profitable two films before it. If that's your definition of Bay "relieving himself" on the franchise than I'm just unhappy he didn't do it more often.

And thats opinion and thus why we'll never reach a happy understanding and why this thread will go on and on until a moderator locks it. I don't waste my time at Rottentomatoes, so that fact is a little lost on me. I am a long time Transformer fan who went to see a Transformer movie that impressed upon me and/or gave me the opinion that the creative/production team (and therefore the director), sucked.

If you like the movies and want more, thats great. Good for you. Merry christmas. You're right, Transformers is THRIVING because of Micheal Bay and crew. But i know it would have been better with a different team behind it, so thats why i am saying, "Micheal Bay sucks. Lets reboot this already and move on."

I don't understand the anger on your part.I see a bad movie and its like oh well on to the next thing.I'm just a little older than you and G1 was awesome to me as a child.Seeing these movies is a dream come true to me.There are parts that made me go meh but I have never seen a movie that didnt have a few parts like that.I liked Wheelie and all his lines,I luaghed at the wrecking balls on Devastator and Sams parents come off as real to me.They seem like my parents a little bit, so I can relate to it.I didn't like Jetfires voice or how he acted but thats little.Nothing to make me hate the movie.If you going to complain about some of the movie industry tricks that many movies use to keep cost down,I dont see why you watch any movies.I rather have a decent movie for $10 then have the movie cost $20-$30 to make it perfect.So they used the spy palne footage again...So?Does that make it less of a movie?If your going to pick a movie apart for whats bad and not watch it for whats good why go? ROTF had its issues but it had a lot of good too.

Capt.Failure wrote:

vegetacron wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:I dunno, I thought both movies were fun. Alot of people thought both movies were fun (90% of the people interviewed for exit polls, 75% of those polled on Rottentomatoes). I guess those people's opinions don't count. You speak of Bay "taking a ****" on the franchise but it's more popular than ever now, and that kind of popularity isn't gained when people hate something that introduced them to it. Fact is Bay did something right or we'd have never seen a third film, and that something was make a popular, profitable two films before it. If that's your definition of Bay "relieving himself" on the franchise than I'm just unhappy he didn't do it more often.

And thats opinion and thus why we'll never reach a happy understanding and why this thread will go on and on until a moderator locks it. I don't waste my time at Rottentomatoes, so that fact is a little lost on me. I am a long time Transformer fan who went to see a Transformer movie that impressed upon me and/or gave me the opinion that the creative/production team (and therefore the director), sucked.

If you like the movies and want more, thats great. Good for you. Merry christmas. You're right, Transformers is THRIVING because of Micheal Bay and crew. But i know it would have been better with a different team behind it, so thats why i am saying, "Micheal Bay sucks. Lets reboot this already and move on."

And I can only imagine that if your little fantasy world were some other director and team made it, and it came out and had equal success you'd be saying, "Nolan/Snyder/Spielburg/Lucas/whoever sucks. Let's reboot this already and move on."

If anything the series will probably suffer without him. People are familiar with the new looks and style of these films and the level of action they brought to the screen and will want more of that. Expect the next set of films to not see the same success. Combined with the fandom's seething hatred of new things and it will be a long time before we see another surge in popularity and success for the series.

I think your totally right.It saddens me to think this way.

I loved the 07 movie the first few times I watched it in theaters, then I saw Revenge of the Fallen and tried really hard to enjoy it. I felt there were elements of the story that, if expanded on/focused on more (i.e., TF's on Earth in the past etc.), that it would have been a great movie. Instead, I was pretty disappointed (I didn't HATE it, it was just a let down).

When I first saw the ads for the 07 film I thought they were going to approach the franchise from the point of view of the humans (which they did) using a "War of the Worlds/Independence Day" plot etc. (which they did not), which I thought would be a great way to take the very campy/childish G1 TF's and put it on the big screen (I loved G1, but continuity, character and story were sacrificed to sell toys, sorry, but it was still light years ahead of any other show at the time, so I can't say anything from the 80's outdid it, but a hit bigscreen movie does not an 80's cartoon make, and the box office numbers for the original G1 movie are proof, and the reason G.I. Joe the Movie was a direct to TV/Video release).

I personally don't mind at all when Hollywood takes a franchise I love and completely revamps it, but if they do so, I want them to actually make movies that are interesting and compelling, not just special effects bananzas with no content (which unfortunately, now that I go back and watch even the first movie now that the "wow" factor has worn off, I must admit that that's all it really is, just a big blow up stuff, cool robots fest with no real plot/character and a few jokes thrown in.

I don't hate Michael Bay and I don't hate Hasbro or anyone else for making the movies the way that they did, they used a very lowbrow formula to try and grab a teenage audience that for the most part, has a very short attention span and it worked. It just makes it difficult for a 31 year old (me) to take the movies seriously and really enjoy them.

All that being said, Dark of the Moon looks like it may actually deliver on what the first two movies seemed to promise based on the previews, but never provided (Mars lander in the first movie was a sideline, they made it seem like it was the core element of the plot, the Fallen being some super powerful ancient evil from prehistoric Earth in the second, and again, pretty much a sideline and very easily defeated).

Transformers, just like Batman, Ironman, the X-Men etc. will likely always be a lucrative property, I just hope that eventually (assuming DotM doesn't do it, fingers still crossed) someone will come along and make something more out of it. It's not just hot girls, fast cars, big explosions and awesome special effects that make a great film that stands the test of time, those things should be the icing on the cake for a film that can stand on its own without them.

Transformers, just like Batman, Ironman, the X-Men etc. will likely always be a lucrative property, I just hope that eventually (assuming DotM doesn't do it, fingers still crossed) someone will come along and make something more out of it. It's not just hot girls, fast cars, big explosions and awesome special effects that make a great film that stands the test of time, those things should be the icing on the cake for a film that can stand on its own without them.

'Tis too true. Hopefully Transformers will get the treatment it deserves the next time around.

I've used this argument before, and I'll use it again because it's true, logical and honest.

Bay can be blamed for the following:

- Bad attitude.
- Jerky, fast cuts that make it difficult to make out scenes and characters.
- Not giving the films enough time to flesh out characters or depth in scenes.
- Some, but not all of the sophomoric and juvenile humor. (More on this in a moment.)

Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci can be blamed for the following:

- Hack writing.
- Boring writing. (The first hour of the first film was human dramedy, with barely a whisper or hint of TransFormers in it.)
- Reusing the same old schtick, sometimes in the same film. (Star Trek. Remember Kirk nearly died on a ledge? No less than THREE times in the same TWO HOUR movie?? Really? There's no other possible danger they could've come up with? And they got that idea from Star Trek III when he kicked Kruge into the erupting planet beneath him.)
- No new or fresh ideas of their own. (They've built their reputation and career on the works of other people. Zorro, TransFormers, Mission: Impossible, Star Trek, Hawaii Five-0, all of it is their take on someone else's work, none of it original or their own.)

Bay can only go so far with what he's given. Past a certain point, he's being given only so much and he has to make it work. People have made this argument before: "Well, what about Ridley Scott? He'd never film something off of a script so weak!" and guess what? They're wrong. He has made bombs before, and if he does turn down a script...he has far more power, money and name status to allow him to say "Oh screw off. Write me something worthy of my work." Bay is very faithful to the people he works with, and when he accepts a job, it's not just for him but also for his crew. It's not just his paycheck, not just his time, it's their's. It's a team effort and he's one of the biggest proponents of "there is no I in team".

When the writers went on strike during ROTF, he went on with it. Filming what he could, where and when he could, and kept the paychecks coming to his crew, his cast, and answering to his bosses at Paramount and Dreamworks, not to mention the producers.

People look at Bay and make light of his work and mock him and tear into him, but they have no idea what it's like to be in his shoes. Plenty of people rely on him and plenty of people demand a lot of him. He answers that call, every time. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it commendable and deserves respect? YES.

Orci & Kurtzman are your culprits, ladies and gentlemen.

The Mask Of Zorro? Excellent movie.
The Legend Of Zorro? Boring, over long and pales in comparison to the original.

Mission: Impossible III? Fun, accessible to everyone, but throwaway entertainment. Much like hollow sweets that give you nothing.

TransFormers? BORING. The human focus was too heavy. (Oh and before anyone complains about the humor being Bay's fault...I read excerpts of the first movie's novel. Chock full of crappy humor. Bay had no control over the book. What was it based on? The screenplay written by Orci & Kurtzman.)

Star Trek? Fun, accessible to everyone, but horribly flawed. The flaws become more and more apparent with each viewing. So much so that they stick out and jar you. Doesn't make the film bad, but it certainly could've been better.

Revenge Of The Fallen? A much better movie, but had Ehren Kruger helping out. Heavily flawed and awkward in some scenes, overly silly in others. I don't deny that there are serious problems with the film, but it's nowhere near as bad as critics say. (Once you see DOTM, you'll see that all of ROTF's good parts came from Kruger, and none from them.)

Hawaii Five-0? Great show, but they wrote the pilot and I have to say it was one of the weakest TV shows I've ever seen. Action, action, action, and no depth to the characters, no real background story. (It took other writers and the rest of the entire SEASON to do that.)

TransFormers Prime? Great show, loads more depth than some of their other work, but it's dark. Autobots that kill humans? Those aren't the TransFormers I remember. Sure, it's more realistic, I don't deny that, but it's not the Optimus Prime I remember. It's not the Optimus Prime that Peter Cullen turned into a hero for generations. Where is his humor? His heart? His compassion? And the episodes written by other writers make the show stronger.

Bay had nothing to do with Prime or the other properties and they all have one weakness...the writing. If you can't see that, then you're just unwilling to, and he's your scapegoat for everything and anything.

There's one positive thing about Bay leaving the movies: He doesn't have to deal with this ungrateful and self entitled fandom, anymore.

Autobot032 wrote:I've used this argument before, and I'll use it again because it's true, logical and honest.

Bay can be blamed for the following:

- Bad attitude.
- Jerky, fast cuts that make it difficult to make out scenes and characters.
- Not giving the films enough time to flesh out characters or depth in scenes.
- Some, but not all of the sophomoric and juvenile humor. (More on this in a moment.)

Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci can be blamed for the following:

- Hack writing.
- Boring writing. (The first hour of the first film was human dramedy, with barely a whisper or hint of TransFormers in it.)
- Reusing the same old schtick, sometimes in the same film. (Star Trek. Remember Kirk nearly died on a ledge? No less than THREE times in the same TWO HOUR movie?? Really? There's no other possible danger they could've come up with? And they got that idea from Star Trek III when he kicked Kruge into the erupting planet beneath him.)
- No new or fresh ideas of their own. (They've built their reputation and career on the works of other people. Zorro, TransFormers, Mission: Impossible, Star Trek, Hawaii Five-0, all of it is their take on someone else's work, none of it original or their own.)

Bay can only go so far with what he's given. Past a certain point, he's being given only so much and he has to make it work. People have made this argument before: "Well, what about Ridley Scott? He'd never film something off of a script so weak!" and guess what? They're wrong. He has made bombs before, and if he does turn down a script...he has far more power, money and name status to allow him to say "Oh screw off. Write me something worthy of my work." Bay is very faithful to the people he works with, and when he accepts a job, it's not just for him but also for his crew. It's not just his paycheck, not just his time, it's their's. It's a team effort and he's one of the biggest proponents of "there is no I in team".

When the writers went on strike during ROTF, he went on with it. Filming what he could, where and when he could, and kept the paychecks coming to his crew, his cast, and answering to his bosses at Paramount and Dreamworks, not to mention the producers.

People look at Bay and make light of his work and mock him and tear into him, but they have no idea what it's like to be in his shoes. Plenty of people rely on him and plenty of people demand a lot of him. He answers that call, every time. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it commendable and deserves respect? YES.

Orci & Kurtzman are your culprits, ladies and gentlemen.

The Mask Of Zorro? Excellent movie.
The Legend Of Zorro? Boring, over long and pales in comparison to the original.

Mission: Impossible III? Fun, accessible to everyone, but throwaway entertainment. Much like hollow sweets that give you nothing.

TransFormers? BORING. The human focus was too heavy. (Oh and before anyone complains about the humor being Bay's fault...I read excerpts of the first movie's novel. Chock full of crappy humor. Bay had no control over the book. What was it based on? The screenplay written by Orci & Kurtzman.)

Star Trek? Fun, accessible to everyone, but horribly flawed. The flaws become more and more apparent with each viewing. So much so that they stick out and jar you. Doesn't make the film bad, but it certainly could've been better.

Revenge Of The Fallen? A much better movie, but had Ehren Kruger helping out. Heavily flawed and awkward in some scenes, overly silly in others. I don't deny that there are serious problems with the film, but it's nowhere near as bad as critics say. (Once you see DOTM, you'll see that all of ROTF's good parts came from Kruger, and none from them.)

Hawaii Five-0? Great show, but they wrote the pilot and I have to say it was one of the weakest TV shows I've ever seen. Action, action, action, and no depth to the characters, no real background story. (It took other writers and the rest of the entire SEASON to do that.)

TransFormers Prime? Great show, loads more depth than some of their other work, but it's dark. Autobots that kill humans? Those aren't the TransFormers I remember. Sure, it's more realistic, I don't deny that, but it's not the Optimus Prime I remember. It's not the Optimus Prime that Peter Cullen turned into a hero for generations. Where is his humor? His heart? His compassion? And the episodes written by other writers make the show stronger.

Bay had nothing to do with Prime or the other properties and they all have one weakness...the writing. If you can't see that, then you're just unwilling to, and he's your scapegoat for everything and anything.

There's one positive thing about Bay leaving the movies: He doesn't have to deal with this ungrateful and self entitled fandom, anymore.

Whether or not people liked/hated the live action TF movies. One can't deny how much money micheal bay & his team made for hasbro/Takara & the TF toy line. because of micheal bays TF movies,the TF moie toy lines reached record time highs in selling decent in stores.

Micheal bay appears to be a decent polite man. his good bye words were polite & sincere.

Shia la beouf saying he isn't returning after TF3 ends is kinda RIDICULOUS & a EMPTY threat. Because without micheal bay they'll be a reboot. reboots never have the same actors.

I'm going to miss the live action franchise and I just hope that they'll make more toys in the Bayformers aesthetic from time to time. But I doubt they will.

Treetop Maximus wrote:I'm going to miss the live action franchise and I just hope that they'll make more toys in the Bayformers aesthetic from time to time. But I doubt they will.

I agree on the toys part.

One has to give micheal bay & his team the "positive credit" they deserve for helping to design the most awesome TF toys of all time. which are known as the movie-verse TF toys.

These movie-verse TF toys are pure awesome. the sculpts/designs look like they cater to older kids over 12 years old & older veteran adult TF fans. I like that they use realistic liscensed vechicles & realistic military vechicles. the complex transformations are another plus in my book. the Movie verse leader sized TF toys are pure works of art especially the optimus toys. the sheer fact takara is labeling some movie verse leader toys as Masterpiece toys says a lot in terms of design & poseability & hard work to make these toys look amazing.

Autobot032 wrote:I've used this argument before, and I'll use it again because it's true, logical and honest.

Bay can be blamed for the following:

- Bad attitude.
- Jerky, fast cuts that make it difficult to make out scenes and characters.
- Not giving the films enough time to flesh out characters or depth in scenes.
- Some, but not all of the sophomoric and juvenile humor. (More on this in a moment.)

Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci can be blamed for the following:

- Hack writing.
- Boring writing. (The first hour of the first film was human dramedy, with barely a whisper or hint of TransFormers in it.)
- Reusing the same old schtick, sometimes in the same film. (Star Trek. Remember Kirk nearly died on a ledge? No less than THREE times in the same TWO HOUR movie?? Really? There's no other possible danger they could've come up with? And they got that idea from Star Trek III when he kicked Kruge into the erupting planet beneath him.)
- No new or fresh ideas of their own. (They've built their reputation and career on the works of other people. Zorro, TransFormers, Mission: Impossible, Star Trek, Hawaii Five-0, all of it is their take on someone else's work, none of it original or their own.)

Bay can only go so far with what he's given. Past a certain point, he's being given only so much and he has to make it work. People have made this argument before: "Well, what about Ridley Scott? He'd never film something off of a script so weak!" and guess what? They're wrong. He has made bombs before, and if he does turn down a script...he has far more power, money and name status to allow him to say "Oh screw off. Write me something worthy of my work." Bay is very faithful to the people he works with, and when he accepts a job, it's not just for him but also for his crew. It's not just his paycheck, not just his time, it's their's. It's a team effort and he's one of the biggest proponents of "there is no I in team".

When the writers went on strike during ROTF, he went on with it. Filming what he could, where and when he could, and kept the paychecks coming to his crew, his cast, and answering to his bosses at Paramount and Dreamworks, not to mention the producers.

People look at Bay and make light of his work and mock him and tear into him, but they have no idea what it's like to be in his shoes. Plenty of people rely on him and plenty of people demand a lot of him. He answers that call, every time. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it commendable and deserves respect? YES.

Orci & Kurtzman are your culprits, ladies and gentlemen.

The Mask Of Zorro? Excellent movie.
The Legend Of Zorro? Boring, over long and pales in comparison to the original.

Mission: Impossible III? Fun, accessible to everyone, but throwaway entertainment. Much like hollow sweets that give you nothing.

TransFormers? BORING. The human focus was too heavy. (Oh and before anyone complains about the humor being Bay's fault...I read excerpts of the first movie's novel. Chock full of crappy humor. Bay had no control over the book. What was it based on? The screenplay written by Orci & Kurtzman.)

Star Trek? Fun, accessible to everyone, but horribly flawed. The flaws become more and more apparent with each viewing. So much so that they stick out and jar you. Doesn't make the film bad, but it certainly could've been better.

Revenge Of The Fallen? A much better movie, but had Ehren Kruger helping out. Heavily flawed and awkward in some scenes, overly silly in others. I don't deny that there are serious problems with the film, but it's nowhere near as bad as critics say. (Once you see DOTM, you'll see that all of ROTF's good parts came from Kruger, and none from them.)

Hawaii Five-0? Great show, but they wrote the pilot and I have to say it was one of the weakest TV shows I've ever seen. Action, action, action, and no depth to the characters, no real background story. (It took other writers and the rest of the entire SEASON to do that.)

TransFormers Prime? Great show, loads more depth than some of their other work, but it's dark. Autobots that kill humans? Those aren't the TransFormers I remember. Sure, it's more realistic, I don't deny that, but it's not the Optimus Prime I remember. It's not the Optimus Prime that Peter Cullen turned into a hero for generations. Where is his humor? His heart? His compassion? And the episodes written by other writers make the show stronger.

Bay had nothing to do with Prime or the other properties and they all have one weakness...the writing. If you can't see that, then you're just unwilling to, and he's your scapegoat for everything and anything.

There's one positive thing about Bay leaving the movies: He doesn't have to deal with this ungrateful and self entitled fandom, anymore.

I would be more willing to accept this proposed idea.I will still say the movies are not as bad as some say I still think they fun.

vulgar_wraith wrote:I would be more willing to accept this proposed idea.I will still say the movies are not as bad as some say I still think they fun.

This. With this kind of entertainment fun trumps everything. I had tons of fun, and so did the audiences when I saw them. I haven't seen an audience get this into a film since the Star Wars special editions. Cheering, applause, laughing along and booing the Decepticons, things I look forward to again on Tuesday.