Could've just watched both sub and dub back-to-back. That's what I did when Car Robots was first subbed in full, as I wanted to see what all was changed between the two versions after having been able to only watch the dub for so long.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Maybe I would have gotten more out of English dub this time around, but I really believe in experiencing shows the way they were meant to be experienced.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
In my case, I had fun noticing all the differences between RID and CR, as even the music and sound effects were completely changed. And certain shots were rearranged or even cut out completely. It felt like two different experiences. Not to mention the three episodes each version had that didn't exist in the other version.Gauntlet101010 wrote:If I watched the sub and dub back to back I don't think I'd enjoy the show. I think it'd be too similar of an experience. I think I'd get bored.
Erm, the whole Unicron Trilogy was a pretty atypical case when it came to anime development, as they were each a co-production with Hasbro still having some say over the story. Like, the giant Supreme class Starscream toy that Hasbro put out in their version of the toyline was only added into the show later per Hasbro's initiative and never got sold in the Takara line proper, only reaching Japan as an import in Hasbro packaging sold as a Toys R Us exclusive. Likewise, several Hasbro-only toys were added into the Energon/Superlink and Cybertron/Galaxy Force cartoons despite never being sold in the Takara toylines (like Supreme class Starscream, these toys were instead Hasbro-packaged imports). It was a very unusual time.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'm aware of Cybertron's odd nature. That's this weird standalone series in Japan. Despite Megatron sporting Unicron bits. BUT. The Japanese show did come first. So those depictions of the characters are the primary versions. So, if I'm gonna choose, I'll still choose to follow that version. Even if they did botch the original intent with the English dub trying to do damage control. It's still, primarily, a Japanese show. First and foremost.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Ooh, I never thought of doing that, going J-J-E. But, no, I wouldn't advise doing that. The Cybertron dub was designed to connect to the Armada and Energon dubs, which also had their fair share of differences from the Japanese versions.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Unless you're saying a more true viewing experience is watching it as Armada (J), Energon (J), and then Cybertron (E). (I know their names are different in Japan, but I don't recall them offhand) I'm only watching one version of all of these (after all, I have quite the journey to go through). So I gotta pick just ONE. I don't think I'll ever be a true TF expert, but I'll settle for catching up on all the stuff I just didn't bother watching and familiarizing myself with material outside my comfort zone.
But you're saying it's actually better in this case to at least watch Cybertron over the Japanese version?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
And Japan did the same thing to Beast Machines, Animated, Prime, Cyberverse... you know, all the really dramatic ones.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I watched the first two. Yeah, it's pretty different. I ... don't think I like it. Maybe if I were younger I'd appreciate it more. Beast Wars already had a lot of humor this was just too much. But maybe if I were in grade school I'd appreciate a more madcap Megs.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Yeah, Cyberverse season 1 is a completely different beast from the rest of it, bogged down mostly by its having to tie-in spiritually with the Bumblebee movie by having Bee both radio-speak and an amnesiac. Though, the anthology-style storytelling was also something of a hindrance, in hindsight it feels like it was meant as a means to educate new viewers on the modern backstory lore for Transformers. The first season does improve as more and more of the present-day story is revealed, with more of the Decepticons' operations on Earth being revealed little by little, and a series of mysteries on the Autobots' side being gradually explored and ultimately fulfilled by the season 1 finale.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Although I can't speak for Cyberverse because that's a series I skipped. I just started watching it and, like most of these, couldn't get into it. But I'll give it another try. When I get to it. If I don't burn myself out.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
That's actually one of the biggest differences between Power Rangers and its original counterpart Super Sentai. Power Rangers will make toys of some of the bad guys, but Super Sentai more often than than not can't be bothered to make any bad guy toys.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I get the whole "bad guy toys don't sell", but even Power Rangers have putties and a few lieutenants to balance things out.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Now that we know for certain that Car Robots is part of JG1 (it wasn't known to the western fandom at the time), what powers Brave Maximus is basically like a form of Jinchokon, the Chokon Power of humanity from Masterforce.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Brave Max is the most useless Fort Max of the three Max bros. WTF? A giant Transformer that needs a heroic spirit to remember to do something? Maybe just give him a heroic spirit or something. All of this "the Earth's children are so important" stuff is so saccharine it makes my teeth hurt. I could have done without it. And when he does finally activate he's so slow and useless, especially compared to his G1 brethren. Maybe it's because he's such an old toy now!
That toy didn't yet exist at the time Car Robots was in development, which would have been 1999-2000. The Megatron Megabolt toy was first released in 2002. While it was originally developed for Beast Machines, the earliest it would have seen release in that line would have been late spring/early summer 2001, when the Car Robots line ended in November 2000.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Not using Megabolt Megatron in this cartoon is an absolute waste. Even if it's not Megatron himself. He's living on top of my TR Fort Max right now since I found that mold sooooo disappointing. I just feel like the Destrons not directly controlling Brave Max - ever - was a waste of potential. They are just never, truly, a threat.
Aw, he's just putting on airs. Gotta keep that reputation of his intact and mess with his brother. Total sibling vibes from those two to the very end.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Of all the Autobots I think my fav is Ultra Magnus. I'm a sucker for broody loner types. Almost makes me with I backed the Haslab. Almost. I do like his development from the start of the series to the end. And his friendship with Speedbreaker. Although him having to be convinced to merge with Prime at the end is like ... WTF? What about all the other times you did so without a fuss, dude? I'm glad he was brought intot he show when he was. Kinda mixed it up for a while.
You just named all three of my favorites as well. Magnus, Gelshark, and Black Convoy. Though, they were already my favorites from the English version, too.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can see why people like Gelshark now, but I think Black Convoy is my fav. His "the flowers of evil" dialogue is probably a lot more badass in Japan than here, but I like his competence and he always gives a good fight. I like the touch of him remembering his past as a Cybertron warrior a bit and Gigatron's plan of infusing him with his essence backfiring a little. His best moment has to be when he and the Combatrons are all pretending to be good guys, though.
To my surprise, there were actually subtle hints to Gigatron's search for Brave Maximus sprinkled sporadically throughout the series (hints that the English dub omitted because the dub didn't know they were hints because of how subtle they were). Off the top of my head:Gauntlet101010 wrote:Gigatron does get involved more than either Galvatron or Magmatron, but not enough. If I think back to G1 Prime and Megatron fighting is what sold me on the entire show. Their whole dynamic! We have a touch more of that here, but not quite enough. He also doesn't really have any plans to speak of - a trend among J Destron leaders. They just delegate the plans to their lieutenants and then get mad when they fail. Other than the endings, I with the J leaders would come up with more of their own plots to destroy the Cybertrons. Maybe the UT will show me that?
That's the gist of it, yes. In Episode 30, Black Convoy mentions that Brave Maximus was hidden on Earth to protect something called "Gaia Energy". This is something that's never explained within Car Robots itself, but the show does also say, in Episode 32, that the OOParts were created by Vector Sigma, whom JG1 has been treated as a god to the Transformers. So since the OOParts are part of Brave Maximus's activation, their origins being divine suggests that Brave Maximus himself might be as well.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I know this show is supposed to connect to G1 continuity. It mentions that Brave Max was sent to control energy found in the Earth, and I guess that's supposed to be the Anglomois Energy?
Rewatching the scene of Gigatron's debut in the first episode, the people seem more alarmed by the sight of his giant hand mode before he transforms. In the G1 cartoon's first two seasons, the Earth-based Decepticons all turned into Earthly vehicles and objects, whereas Gigatron's hand mode is something truly alien and otherworldly. And once he transforms, someone can be heard shouting "It's really a robot!", knowing what he is. They stay worried at his appearance because, well, look at him. He looks terrifying. None of the G1 season 1-2 Decepticon had giant demon wings. And he just announced his decision to dominate humanity. That's a threat the crowd of onlookers aren't going to just brush off when the giant demonic-looking robot making threats to them is basically standing right there in front of them while they remain completely at his mercy. Dr. Onishi truly was the bravest one there, speaking out against Gigatron the way he did.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I guess I can see how G1 could progress to this. In G1 we had just one spaceship in a volcano. Now the Autobots are well established on Earth. But, also, when Gigatron appears nobody should be surprised at this point. It should be more along the lines of "aw, not again!"
Which lady? The one always being harassed by Speedbreaker? Well, in the first episode, she was shocked that her own SUV (which she didn't know was secretly alive) suddenly ejected her. Anyone would be surprised by that.Gauntlet101010 wrote:That one lady shouldn't be freaked out by a driverless car.
Some do. In Episode 3, a random train dispatcher identifies Fire Convoy by name and faction on the spot. It's really only Yuki who didn't know what the Transformers were, and he's a dumb little kid from the other side of the world where the Transformers didn't have a major presence on Earth (and, from a real-world perspective, his unawareness was used to introduce the concept of Transformers and their two different factions to new young viewers who were just getting into Transformers through Car Robots).Gauntlet101010 wrote:People really ought to know who the Autobots are!
It mostly boils down to how Car Robots used a similar format to BWII with how it advertised its toys:Gauntlet101010 wrote:I think I enjoyed this series more consistently either Neo or II. But it took a while to get up to speed. I did find myself frustrated at the extremely repetitive fights. I mean. At a certain point we just keep seeing the Build Team and JRX fight Black Convoy and Ruination. It's hard to make a comedy/action show interesting when you back the same toys together. And I have to come back to flaws with the writing.
I feel like the length was a requirement of the fact that it was a toyetic anime. It needed to keep on the air with a new episode each week (Japan really doesn't like to do reruns), while still sticking to the timing of each toy wave's release schedule. It's something that pretty much every Japanese-made televised TF cartoon has to adhere to.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Still, the characters kind of helped to balance out the weaknesses of the show. I like that early-00s feel. The fights (and transformation sequences) were good, just repetitive. I don't think any of the shows I've watched needed to be as long as they were. If they had kept things tighter I think it would have helped.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
"Koji" in the dub, "Yuki" in Car Robots.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I mean, Cody
He's only a grade-schooler, most likely born in the 90s after all the weird stuff in G1 seasons 1-2 already happened in the 80s. At the oldest, I'd say he's only around 10 or 11 (the dub aged him up to be a teenager whose voice has already deepened).Gauntlet101010 wrote:should definitely recognize the Autobots because Cybertron really was in Earth's orbit.
...No it doesn't? At least, not yet. It didn't first appear until TFTM in the year 2005; the Autobots only had the Ark in seasons 1-2 of the cartoon.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Autobot City is definitely a thing that exists
I just figured it was destroyed (or at least severely damaged) in the finale, what with that massive explosion the final battle surging through it from the Earth's core all the way to the surface, as well as Devil Gigatron flooding another part of the Cybertron Net with lava in the penultimate episode.Gauntlet101010 wrote:But also, the Cybernet is even more of a problem. Because I guess it's just lying low during all this time? Was it built in secret? How long did it take the Build Team to make exactly!? It's such a terrible element to add to the show.
Yyyyeah, the lack of any G1 Transformers on Earth in Car Robots is a major oddity. And it seems some of the folks at Takara over in Japan agreed with that and set out to make sense of it.Gauntlet101010 wrote:I guess we're supposed to imaging that Fire Convoy contacted Optimus Prime and told him not to worry about Gigatron. Which would be fine, TBH. Standard superhero logic, really. Although Gigs never bumped into any present-day Autobots.
The running theory is that Fire Convoy's team simply adopted the old insignia in order to better blend in with the time period, whereas the Destrongers just didn't care about blending in or lining up with history and so kept their insignia instead of using (though, you can't even see any insignia on them since their animation models didn't have any, so for them it's kind of a moot point).Gauntlet101010 wrote:But, then, why is he an Autobot and not a Maximal? Does his team just like the retro look? (I know the real life reason of course)
It does kinda show where Autobot City got its beginning with Brave Maximus. Or rather, where "Cybertron City" got its beginning with "Cybertron City".Gauntlet101010 wrote:There doesn't seem to be any real link between this and G1. It just seems like it's been tossed into that gap era without much thought or care. It doesn't add a thing to G1 lore. And G1 doesn't add a thing to it.
Japan did get this art piece published in May 2000, which was the month Car Robots episodes 5-9 premiered over there (and was long before Brave Max made his debut in October-November, so that background was unknowingly-at-the-time some major foreshadowing):Gauntlet101010 wrote:I thought it was supposed to be after Victory, years de damned, but if it really is pre-movie then ... yeah, terrible stuff. Terrible and pointless. Make a special anniversary episode where Black Convoy meets G1 Convoy or something. I dunno what, but something. There's a lot of interesting things you can do if you decide to play with the timeline like that. But them being at that point in the timeline just for shits and giggles seems just utterly pointless to me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
He's only a grade-schooler, most likely born in the 90s after all the weird stuff in G1 seasons 1-2 already happened in the 80s. At the oldest, I'd say he's only around 10 or 11 (the dub aged him up to be a teenager whose voice has already deepened).
Cybertron Net
Autobot City
The canonicity of that old manga is... a gray area.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Cybertron Net
You know, I have that manga and never made the connection. While it may not be canon (or is it?
I dunno!). they definitely used it as inspiration!
We have to remember that in Japan, it's the little head robot that's the living being of the Headmaster while the larger body is lifeless. Brave Max is the same, with Plasma being his true self, who forms the head of Brave, who forms the head of Brave Maximus.Gauntlet101010 wrote:But Autobot City is using Max's body as it's base? Does that mean Max is dead at the end of Car Robots? Because Autobot City looks nothing like him!
I feel like I'm back in 2007 all over again when all this was first found out in the west and everyone was like "HUH?!!"Gauntlet101010 wrote:It's interesting that they decided to write a whole series just to shoehorn in Car Robots into the overall G1 lore. Someone on the team really likes Car Robots! They could have kept it this little niche show it's own tidy corner of their brand and they looked at that and said "naw. Naw, we can make this work." I guess it works ... in the same way Masterforce does. Maybe a bit less because Masterforce does try to explain how it fits in. And it also asks us to believe that everyone can forget the Transformers.
But, overall, I don't think it's inclusion actually helps it or G1. You need so much material to make it work. So much suspension of disbelief to make it work. Just for it to "count"? Even though the show doesn't utilize it's setting well enough to justify such a convoluted premise?
At this point, I think most in Japan have just accepted it and moved on, what with more efforts to better incorporate Car Robots having been made in the time since. At the time of 2007, sure, it was probably surprising. But now, it's old news, some most are just on the indifferent side.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Do you know what the fans overseas make of this? Do they like it? To me it sounds like overcomplicating what should be a fun little miniseries.
I know a few places to read it.Gauntlet101010 wrote:Gotta track down that "Transformers: Star Gate Sen'eki" though. Sounds interesting.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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