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People are gonna be beating each other up in the aisles over Refraktor.

Wasn't it initially stated that Deluxe Wave 3 of siege would be 4 Refraktor 2 Brunt & 2 Red Alert? (or something like that??)

Well, from what I hear Hasbro is apparently packing him like he was a Bumblebee, so there's that at least.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Well, from what I hear Hasbro is apparently packing him like he was a Bumblebee, so there's that at least.

Yeah. Still gotta get to that box first, though.

sol magnus wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Well, from what I hear Hasbro is apparently packing him like he was a Bumblebee, so there's that at least.

Yeah. Still gotta get to that box first, though.

No different to any other release, right?

william-james88 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Well, from what I hear Hasbro is apparently packing him like he was a Bumblebee, so there's that at least.

Yeah. Still gotta get to that box first, though.

No different to any other release, right?

I would imagine not, now that I'm doing this Generations thing.

Microbot wrote:I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

I gotta say.....Springer is my favorite character, I hate the colors on this one.
That main body green is...like 90s neon.
I am excited for Brunt and Thundercracker still.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Microbot wrote:I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

A kid whose parents buy him Transformers?

Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Pretty sure one of the cyberverse figures with the vehicle armor has slammer covered so I'd rather see brunt repainted silver (battlestar galacticish) and maybe even have a red handprint on him

Ooh? Which one?

I would like to know this as well!

PushYouDown wrote:I gotta say.....Springer is my favorite character, I hate the colors on this one.
That main body green is...like 90s neon.

Springer was just ahead of his time, maybe?

Seriously, though, SIEGE Springer's greens and yellow are closer to the original G1 toy in terms of brightness or "saturation" than the G1 cartoon and movie character models, which were duller, more desaturated tones. Brighter colors work better on toys. This has been Hasbro's method of operation for decades. Toys are more attractive to casual buyers on the shelf, especially kids, when they're bright and colorful. The recent in-hand photos we got may be a bit over-saturated, hence the blue coming out in the "gray" legs much more strongly than in previous stock photos. The colors on Siege Springer, minus the gray, look to be pretty on point to those of Thrilling 30 Springer from 5 years ago.

Skritz wrote:Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

True story...One of my friends bought his 10 year old son PotP Inferno, because he is a firefighter, and of course our kids are friends and both like Transformers. My son had to explain to his son about the Combiner gimmick, (because of course they didn't read the instructions) . Of course I got an angry response from my friend because now his son said he wanted 4 deluxes to finish the combiner. They ended up getting a Dinobot, Jazz, and 2 Terrorcons... I didn't wan to crush his contentment by explaining team symmetry and all the combiner possibilities, so I told my son just not to say anything .

o.supreme wrote:

Skritz wrote:Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

True story...One of my friends bought his 10 year old son PotP Inferno, because he is a firefighter, and of course our kids are friends and both like Transformers. My son had to explain to his son about the Combiner gimmick, (because of course they didn't read the instructions) . Of course I got an angry response from my friend because now his son said he wanted 4 deluxes to finish the combiner. They ended up getting a Dinobot, Jazz, and 2 Terrorcons... I didn't wan to crush his contentment by explaining team symmetry and all the combiner possibilities, so I told my son just not to say anything .

Parents for sure buy generations Optimus Prime toys for their kids. That's why they are all sold out while Megatron stays on shelves.

Skritz wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Microbot wrote:I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

A kid whose parents buy him Transformers?

Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

Manchildren!
Grow up? We won't try!
Manchildren!
It's kids' toys that we buy!

Most of our
Paychecks go to
Purchase toys
That fuel the addiction
To that plastic crack!

Manchildren!
It's kids' toys that we buy!
Manchildren!
Grow up? We won't try!
Manchildren!

o.supreme wrote:

Skritz wrote:Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

True story...One of my friends bought his 10 year old son PotP Inferno, because he is a firefighter, and of course our kids are friends and both like Transformers. My son had to explain to his son about the Combiner gimmick, (because of course they didn't read the instructions) . Of course I got an angry response from my friend because now his son said he wanted 4 deluxes to finish the combiner. They ended up getting a Dinobot, Jazz, and 2 Terrorcons... I didn't wan to crush his contentment by explaining team symmetry and all the combiner possibilities, so I told my son just not to say anything .

You should have, just so he would have to go out and buy the other Terrorcons, and 2 more limbs for Inferno. He doesn't need to get Grimlock, because Volcanicus is a turd.

And to make myself a hypocrite, this discussion belongs in the PoTP thread, let's get back to Siege, please.

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Skritz wrote:Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

True story...One of my friends bought his 10 year old son PotP Inferno, because he is a firefighter, and of course our kids are friends and both like Transformers. My son had to explain to his son about the Combiner gimmick, (because of course they didn't read the instructions) . Of course I got an angry response from my friend because now his son said he wanted 4 deluxes to finish the combiner. They ended up getting a Dinobot, Jazz, and 2 Terrorcons... I didn't wan to crush his contentment by explaining team symmetry and all the combiner possibilities, so I told my son just not to say anything .

You should have, just so he would have to go out and buy the other Terrorcons, and 2 more limbs for Inferno. He doesn't need to get Grimlock, because Volcanicus is a turd.

And to make myself a hypocrite, this discussion belongs in the PoTP thread, let's get back to Siege, please.

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

ZeroWolf wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder? That's a good idea, except all 3 are identical, so I guess it doesn't matter which is which.

Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder? That's a good idea, except all 3 are identical, so I guess it doesn't matter which is which.

In the original cartoon, they were all simply "Reflector." They were never really addressed individually. It's unknown if they all have separate consciousness or one shared mind. They also frequently were depicted as MORE than just three nearly identical robots, especially to fill out the background in battle scenes.

The original toyline called the three robot components of Reflector "Spectro," "Spyglass," and "Viewfinder." Viewfinder is the one that looks most like the G1 cartoon model. Spectro is the red toy robot, and Spyglass is the blue toy robot.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder? That's a good idea, except all 3 are identical, so I guess it doesn't matter which is which.

In the original cartoon, they were all simply "Reflector." They were never really addressed individually. It's unknown if they all have separate consciousness or one shared mind. They also frequently were depicted as MORE than just three nearly identical robots, especially to fill out the background in battle scenes.

Moreover, the cartoon was very inconsistent on its portrayal of the three. Most of the time the three would speak in unison as one, while other times an individual one (who lacked the central guy's tummy circle) would be seen by itself. One anomalous occasion had a fourth member not only speak with his own unique non-Chris Latta voice and beg for his life against the others, but that fourth one was also sent to Cybertron through the space bridge, becoming separate from the main three by a span of lightyears and still functioning just like them. Another weird instance once had the main three shown to be pressed up against each other, in which case the two who lacked the tummy circle disappeared into the central guy's body, as though he was the only "real" one while the other two were projected duplicates a la the Insecticons' clones. This weird instance never happened again afterward.

One attempt to explain how there were so many Reflectors in the cartoon came in Fun Pub's Wings Universe fiction, in which Reflector was said to have been the leader of a subgroup of identical-looking Decepticons called the Photons.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

PushYouDown wrote:I gotta say.....Springer is my favorite character, I hate the colors on this one.
That main body green is...like 90s neon.

Springer was just ahead of his time, maybe?

Seriously, though, SIEGE Springer's greens and yellow are closer to the original G1 toy in terms of brightness or "saturation" than the G1 cartoon and movie character models, which were duller, more desaturated tones. Brighter colors work better on toys. This has been Hasbro's method of operation for decades. Toys are more attractive to casual buyers on the shelf, especially kids, when they're bright and colorful. The recent in-hand photos we got may be a bit over-saturated, hence the blue coming out in the "gray" legs much more strongly than in previous stock photos. The colors on Siege Springer, minus the gray, look to be pretty on point to those of Thrilling 30 Springer from 5 years ago.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the photos are oversaturated. It happens sometimes, even with the alleged professionals who take Hasbro's stock photos.

o.supreme wrote:Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

I am continually baffled as to why people would want Sunstreaker and Sideswipe retooled from one another. Their transformation schemes are entirely opposite! It makes no sense! the same way a Tracks/Sideswipe retool makes no sense. If anything, Sunstreaker and Tracks should share molds, not Sideswipe.

I am curious to see what the final molding differences are between Ratchet and Ironhide. He looks good in the artwork so far.

Springer, wow, that is GREEN. They needed to go 20 shades darker

Sabrblade wrote:Moreover, the cartoon was very inconsistent on its portrayal of the three. Most of the time the three would speak in unison as one, while other times an individual one (who lacked the central guy's tummy circle) would be seen by itself. One anomalous occasion had a fourth member not only speak with his own unique non-Chris Latta voice and beg for his life against the others, but that fourth one was also sent to Cybertron through the space bridge, becoming separate from the main three by a span of lightyears and still functioning just like them. Another weird instance once had the main three shown to be pressed up against each other, in which case the two who lacked the tummy circle disappeared into the central guy's body, as though he was the only "real" one while the other two were projected duplicates a la the Insecticons' clones. This weird instance never happened again afterward.

One attempt to explain how there were so many Reflectors in the cartoon came in Fun Pub's Wings Universe fiction, in which Reflector was said to have been the leader of a subgroup of identical-looking Decepticons called the Photons.

I'd love to see what the original Sunbow production bible said for Reflector. It's probably pretty specific about how many there are, if they're all separate entities or one mind controlling the collective, etc. Likely, all of the inconsistencies in the original cartoon are due to having multiple writers cranking out scripts as fast as possible, not bothering to read the production bible to make sure the characters are internally consistent. It's why we got anomalies like the occasional flying Autobot or three mutually exclusive origin stories for the Constructicons.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I am continually baffled as to why people would want Sunstreaker and Sideswipe retooled from one another. Their transformation schemes are entirely opposite! It makes no sense! the same way a Tracks/Sideswipe retool makes no sense. If anything, Sunstreaker and Tracks should share molds, not Sideswipe.

Same here. I think it comes from people used to the Universe 2.0/Henkei figures sharing a mold with just an alternate transformation scheme and head. That, and they are supposed to be "brothers," so why not look similar too? Someone said earlier that some clever retooling could give us a Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, and Tracks all from the same core design. We've already seen something close with Generations/Reveal the Shield/United Wheeljack and (Turbo) Tracks as well as Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors Sunstreaker and Wheeljack.