Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

There is always a work around with the Deluxe Insecticons, by altering the design. Lean heavier into the Beast Modes and they become Legally distinct enough to avoid issue.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:There is always a work around with the Deluxe Insecticons, by altering the design. Lean heavier into the Beast Modes and they become Legally distinct enough to avoid issue.

These "bonus Insecticons" are really starting to gets on my nerves. They never appeared in any cartoons. Did they appeared in any comics? I mean in a significant way? Plus I had the opportunity to handle them at my local geek store and they feel like cheap-ass dollar store garbage compared to the real Insecticons. The fact that Bandai own 100% of the designs should also be the final nail in the coffin to ever see them again.

I can understand they still have their fan, "To each their own" and so on. But don't ever expect pure accuracy. So the logical step is for Hasbro to fist release the REAL Insecticons as individual DELUXES. Average Autobot car size. Then as a Select box set, the same Insecticons but retooled and repainted as the "Bandai" ones with enough differences that they kinda look like the originals but different enough to be their own thing.

TlDr; the Bandasecticons can only be retools/repaint in a "limited" release and will never be mainline.

I like the idea of a larger group representing the Insecticons. Yet, to look at them, I don't really think the designs as they were still hold up.



However, I think Hasbro already did remake them in a lowkey way. Minor redecos, a retool for Sea Clamp, and there you have your Deluxes...

-Kanrabat- wrote:So the logical step is for Hasbro to fist release the Insecticons

But they were already released during Prime Wars Trilogy. Just because they didn't satisfy your personal tastes, doesn't negate their release. Personally I go all the way back to T30. I'd rather have any character from 1984-1992 that hasn't been represented since 2013, rather than another of something that was already made. But again, that is just me. Personally I'm not even a fan of the Deluxe Insecticons, I just appreciate seeing characters get their due. I never got any micro masters back in the day because by the time they came along, I was done with Transformers. However those Earthrise Modulators were an awesome idea and got me to purchase representations of characters I never cared about before.

o.supreme wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So the logical step is for Hasbro to fist release the Insecticons

But they were already released during Prime Wars Trilogy. Just because they didn't satisfy your personal tastes, doesn't negate their release. Personally I go all the way back to T30. I'd rather have any character from 1984-1992 that hasn't been represented since 2013, rather than another of something that was already made. But again, that is just me. Personally I'm not even a fan of the Deluxe Insecticons, I just appreciate seeing characters get their due. I never got any micro masters back in the day because by the time they came along, I was done with Transformers. However those Earthrise Modulators were an awesome idea and got me to purchase representations of characters I never cared about before.

They were released in the Prime Wars Trilogy, but they were too small. Many characters were released in that trilogy that have been re-released today with way better scaling and engineering. So not only having deluxe scale Insecticons would be awesome, they could use the base of these molds to release other characters as well.

And as they did with the current trilogy, mix in some "newer" characters as well. The golden ratio seems to be 3 classic characters for 1 new. The deluxe sized Insecticons are sure to sell. The oddball characters are always a higher risk.

-Kanrabat- wrote:The deluxe sized Insecticons are sure to sell. The oddball characters are always a higher risk.

For example...

o.supreme wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So the logical step is for Hasbro to fist release the Insecticons

But they were already released during Prime Wars Trilogy. Just because they didn't satisfy your personal tastes, doesn't negate their release. Personally I go all the way back to T30. I'd rather have any character from 1984-1992 that hasn't been represented since 2013, rather than another of something that was already made. But again, that is just me. Personally I'm not even a fan of the Deluxe Insecticons, I just appreciate seeing characters get their due. I never got any micro masters back in the day because by the time they came along, I was done with Transformers. However those Earthrise Modulators were an awesome idea and got me to purchase representations of characters I never cared about before.

I see both sides of this.
Although, keep in mind it's not just one person's personal tastes that should be considered.
Go look up how fast some of the 3P original G1 Insecticons sold out.
I'm all for the obscure Insecticons getting their due, but selling the original 3 first is going to help make that happen.
It's also a case of there being good reason for the original 3 being made a couple times already; they're relatively popular.
Along with the fact that in this instance, what sells is going to be put as a priority. As Hastak starts to branch-out with the future line(s), they have to stick to "old faith-fuls" at least a bit.
Now, who knows, could the lesser known characters sell just as well? Maybe...
Doesn't seem as likely, but who knows. The bottom line is Hastak has a track record of playing it safe. Which is understandable. It took quite a while for them to start releasing characters with beast/creature alt modes. Some rode the coat tails of the combining gimmick. But even those (Terrorcons, Seacons, etc.) followed the original combiner teams. Predaking is a well-known and pretty popular character, which is why he was chosen for the Titan class combiner.
But it's still taken a while for the BW characters to get their due.
I'm sure the lesser known Insecticons will as well, but it may be some time.
Between what we're getting in the Kingdom and SS86 lines, Hastak has even more wiggle room for releasing the original 3, so it seems like a no-brainer that'll happen sooner than later.

If the rumors are correct, I'll be saving money next year.

-Kanrabat- wrote:They were released in the Prime Wars Trilogy, but they were too small.

I'm just curious, why do you think that? Because you think they should be deluxes? Would that make them better?

I wouldn't mind deluxe Insecticons, but I think the Prime Wars versions are very good, if there were new ones made they'd have to be perfect for me to replace the legends figures.

Asepticon wrote:If the rumors are correct, I'll be saving money next year.

Same... & I’m more than okay with that!!!
In the grand scheme it won’t be long until characters I’ve waited a long, long time for will be released.
With versions that are as close to my ideal as they may ever get.
I’m predicting in just under 3 years I’ll be making my collecting outro.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:They were released in the Prime Wars Trilogy, but they were too small.

I'm just curious, why do you think that? Because you think they should be deluxes? Would that make them better?

I wouldn't mind deluxe Insecticons, but I think the Prime Wars versions are very good, if there were new ones made they'd have to be perfect for me to replace the legends figures.

Better engineering, better cartoon accuracy, and better scaling. As they did since Siege.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:They were released in the Prime Wars Trilogy, but they were too small.

I'm just curious, why do you think that? Because you think they should be deluxes? Would that make them better?

I wouldn't mind deluxe Insecticons, but I think the Prime Wars versions are very good, if there were new ones made they'd have to be perfect for me to replace the legends figures.

Better engineering, better cartoon accuracy, and better scaling. As they did since Siege.

Plus getting to actually have accessories/weapons.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

Asepticon wrote:If the rumors are correct, I'll be saving money next year.

Same... & I’m more than okay with that!!!
In the grand scheme it won’t be long until characters I’ve waited a long, long time for will be released.
With versions that are as close to my ideal as they may ever get.
I’m predicting in just under 3 years I’ll be making my collecting outro.

I'm edging closer and closer to this point as well, I have almost everything I want from Studio Series and the War for Cybertron Trilogy, it's literally just six or seven more toys and I'm pretty much done. The thing is though, I've been at this point a couple of times in this hobby, first with Dark of the Moon, and then with Power of the Primes, I was at the "Just a couple more and I'll call it a night" point, but then Hasbro always did something with the brand that sucked me back in. That's why I'm so intrigued about Transformers: Legacy and its supposed inclusion of Prime characters, that would be enough to keep me around for at least a couple more years. I'll happily take the Arcee mentioned in these leaks, and I'd also appreciate a Bulkhead, Knock Out and (seeing as most of the posts in this thread mention Insecticons) a Voyager-sized Prime Insecticon with a couple per case for army building.

Munkky wrote:I'm edging closer and closer to this point as well, I have almost everything I want from Studio Series and the War for Cybertron Trilogy, it's literally just six or seven more toys and I'm pretty much done. The thing is though, I've been at this point a couple of times in this hobby, first with Dark of the Moon, and then with Power of the Primes, I was at the "Just a couple more and I'll call it a night" point, but then Hasbro always did something with the brand that sucked me back in. That's why I'm so intrigued about Transformers: Legacy and its supposed inclusion of Prime characters, that would be enough to keep me around for at least a couple more years. I'll happily take the Arcee mentioned in these leaks, and I'd also appreciate a Bulkhead, Knock Out and (seeing as most of the posts in this thread mention Insecticons) a Voyager-sized Prime Insecticon with a couple per case for army building.

I understand... I will say there's a chance that past 3 years from now I could still get a few, IF they're characters I've waited for and never happened before then.
However, it's getting easier and easier to stick to my guns... Especially with price increases...
I'm betting the Prime figures may be incredibly well done, but I know I'll resist opening that door.
Beyond what we know of currently, here are my wants:

Insecticons
Blitzwing
Astrotrain

The rest of the Dinobots, Perceptor, Blaster... I'm in for all of those as long as I like their looks. And it will be very tough for me to pass on a new Menasor.
I think I'll also be in for the toy version of Galvatron; he'll be my only Gen Selects figure.

But that's it, and then I'll be done-zo!!!!

Yeah, Blitzwing and Astrotrain definitely need to be redone.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah, Blitzwing and Astrotrain definitely need to be redone.

I think part of the problem is these are tricky figures due to being triple-changers.
Personally I’m okay with the alt mode appearances being sacrificed a bit for a good-looking, more screen-accurate bot mode.
Ideally I see this working the best by making him leader class; voyager-sized with the extra engineering required to help make the best of the alt modes.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah, Blitzwing and Astrotrain definitely need to be redone.

I think part of the problem is these are tricky figures due to being triple-changers.
Personally I’m okay with the alt mode appearances being sacrificed a bit for a good-looking, more screen-accurate bot mode.
Ideally I see this working the best by making him leader class; voyager-sized with the extra engineering required to help make the best of the alt modes.

Also the fact Astrotrain was just released during Siege and re-released in Earthrise does not help his chances of getting a new figure so soon. If anything maybe a retool to look more earth based a la Ultra Magnus might the only thing we can hope for for a while.

Blitzwing might still make the cut in SS-86 since he was in the movie and is a popular character and has repaint potential.

Overcracker wrote:Also the fact Astrotrain was just released during Siege and re-released in Earthrise does not help his chances of getting a new figure so soon. Blitzwing might still make the cut in SS-86 since he was in the movie and is a popular character and has repaint potential.

My thoughts exactly. I think Blitzwing is a great opportunity for the SS86 line, though we just got a figure called Blitzwing in the regular SS. As for Astrotrain, it would be nice to get a screen accurate figure at the leader size. He was a pretty big bot after all.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Also the fact Astrotrain was just released during Siege and re-released in Earthrise does not help his chances of getting a new figure so soon. Blitzwing might still make the cut in SS-86 since he was in the movie and is a popular character and has repaint potential.

My thoughts exactly. I think Blitzwing is a great opportunity for the SS86 line, though we just got a figure called Blitzwing in the regular SS. As for Astrotrain, it would be nice to get a screen accurate figure at the leader size. He was a pretty big bot after all.

I think that it wouldn't be too soon to have a SS'86 leader Astrotrain that is a "mini mp" with cartoon accurate modes. Meaning a clean shuttle mode and a train mode who don't have a tiny nose. Leave out the tender for more meant and engineering for him. As for the Siege/ER Astrotrain, he's the Cybertronian version. So the Earth mode can be the true "mini MP."

Overcracker wrote:
Also the fact Astrotrain was just released during Siege and re-released in Earthrise does not help his chances of getting a new figure so soon. If anything maybe a retool to look more earth based a la Ultra Magnus might the only thing we can hope for for a while.

Blitzwing might still make the cut in SS-86 since he was in the movie and is a popular character and has repaint potential.

But Astrotrain's re-release in ER didn't involve any retooling did it?
I know he's no where near as popular as Bumblebee, Prime, or Megatron, but he's pretty well-known in the realm of G1.
It won't surprise me at all if he gets another figure soon.
Not to mention, if nothing else, I could see them making a toy colors version released from Gen Selects like what we're supposedly getting with Galvatron.
This is a pretty smart way for Hastak to get a little more $$$ from figures that don't have easy repaint/re-tool options.

I'll be really, really surprised if we don't get a new Blitzwing within 2 years.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I think that it wouldn't be too soon to have a SS'86 leader Astrotrain that is a "mini mp" with cartoon accurate modes. Meaning a clean shuttle mode and a train mode who don't have a tiny nose. Leave out the tender for more meant and engineering for him. As for the Siege/ER Astrotrain, he's the Cybertronian version. So the Earth mode can be the true "mini MP."

This was part of my point.
I don't think it would be crazy at all to get another version very soon, especially if it's a whole new mold and a good departure from the Siege version.
It really is time for a lot of these characters to get some screen accurate figures...
I know there are people that hate the thought of that.
But there are a whole lot of people out there that are in favor of this!

Sowndwave76 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:I think that it wouldn't be too soon to have a SS'86 leader Astrotrain that is a "mini mp" with cartoon accurate modes. Meaning a clean shuttle mode and a train mode who don't have a tiny nose. Leave out the tender for more meant and engineering for him. As for the Siege/ER Astrotrain, he's the Cybertronian version. So the Earth mode can be the true "mini MP."

This was part of my point.
I don't think it would be crazy at all to get another version very soon, especially if it's a whole new mold and a good departure from the Siege version.
It really is time for a lot of these characters to get some screen accurate figures...
I know there are people that hate the thought of that.
But there are a whole lot of people out there that are in favor of this!

I'd say the most likely route would actually be a retool/reshell of the Siege bot. Ditch the tender since he never had one in the cartoon and use the extra resources to fixing the rest. Use the base bot as the skeleton. Train mode is almost good as-is just fix the size of the front so that all the wheels have the same spacing. Dio this in a way that adds material to his feet and you can give him a little more height in bot mode. Shuttle mode can be as easy of a fix as a detachable "shield" panel that covers all the unfinished ugly of the top of the shuttle, this part can become a shield or just peg onto his back for bot mode. Or, if they have the resources they can re-do the arms to improve the shuttle mode. The rest would be just adjusting the finishing details and making whatever changes needed for the deco.

They already have the proper base of the bot and the general transformation worked out, I really can't see them reinventing the wheel.

o.supreme wrote:

Emerje wrote:Problem is Hasbro would have to go it alone. We're never getting Deluxe Insecticons for the same reason why we'll never get a proper G1 Jetfire remake: Takara Tomy can't sell it. The designs and original toys are owned by Bandai and Hasbro doesn't make anything anymore that isn't also sold by (or sellable by) Takara Tomy. So the only way the Deluxe Insecticons are ever getting made is if they look absolutely nothing like the original toy designs aside from colors just like Skyfire, to which I'd have to ask what's the point? Yes, they sold that tiny Micromaster Chop Shop with Megatron, but that was hardly recognizable as the Beetras design. They didn't sell the Legends Chop Shop at all.

Emerje

What about T30 Roadbuster & Whirl, did those not get ported over to Takara either?

Even still, the fact that CW Chop Shop was made, shows it can be done. I'm not sure how long this whole "Brand Unification" thing will last, but I'm thinking it will slowly erode over time to where both Hasbro and TT will begin making there own product again, in addition to the mostly shared line.

The difference is that Dorvack wasn't made by Takatoku, the rights belong to Fuji TV and Ashi Productions, the latter of which Takara Tomy has a good relationship with (Ashi produced Beast Wars II and Neo, Cybertron, and even animated some of G1). Takara Tomy even licensed out Roadbuster to Art Storm for repaints of their Dorvack line in 2014.

Beetras, on the other hand, was the creation of Takatoku with plans for it to be animated, but it never happened. Beetras would go to Bandai when they bought Takatoku in 1984 making them untouchable by Takara Tomy.

The Chop Shop that Hasbro made was just a Shrapnel figure with a new head and colors that Hasbro owns which doesn't infringe on anything, but apparently it was enough for Takara Tomy to pass on it (though to be fair this was also the time when TT was skipping a lot of Hasbro molds or pushing them on Adventures).

Also, brand unity is about more than just sharing the same decos, it's also about sharing budgets which I believe has given us some of our best figures of late in a long time.

Emerje

It is weird that 3P can make an exact likeness of a Transformer and simply release it under a different name, mostly without issue. But HasTak can't re-release stuff they originally did back in the 80's in a similar fashion?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It is weird that 3P can make an exact likeness of a Transformer and simply release it under a different name, mostly without issue. But HasTak can't re-release stuff they originally did back in the 80's in a similar fashion?

Hasbro only licensed the Beetras molds from Bandai, they didn't buy them outright. And with Hasbro's relationship with Takara having strengthened over the years, it wouldn't be a good idea for molds owned by Takara's biggest rival to be sold in the toyline that Hasbro and Takara share with each other. Therein lies the bureaucratic mess.