Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[SpikeyTigertron]

I can see fans being salty a bout WFC:Siege being smaller than Combiner Wars figures... But as others have stated... Those are also more hollow, and effectively share a *lot* of engineering across the line saving costs (which they could budget into slightly larger figures?). Siege figures look more complex than any of the CW line.

As far as those that keep complaining "these aren't CHUG" (Pre-thrilling 30) again, as others have pointed out that was a time when plastic was cheaper and inflation was lower. While for being large-for-largeness-sake is one thing.... stylistically I wouldn't call them better figures than siege. Also nobody brings up Binaltech/Alternators.... if you want to talk about "big figures for your $". But I would also argue they haven't aged well (at least their robot modes).

[SpikeyTigertron]

One could also argue by the figures trending smaller in the current line... they'd *scale better* with the Combiner War combiners in gestalt mode?!

[Jelze Bunnycat]

The weight is an important factor to consider, because of a property you should have learned in physics: density.

Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.

Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.

[SpikeyTigertron]

The weight is an important factor to consider, because of a property you should have learned in physics: density.

Even if the figures shrink in terms of height or volume, if the weight (technically its mass) remains the same, more is squeezed into a certain space, which results into more being possible when it comes to transformation, articulation and possibly the thickness and quality of the plastic.

Out of curiosity, with the standards set by Siege, how do figures of other lines weigh in? Not just the current Cyberverse line, but older main lines as well.

That's a good question.... My guess would be the Unicron Trilogy would be the "current" heavy-weights. Though some of the first series of movie toys could surprise people.

But taking a cross section of Thrilling 30/Age of Extinction/Studio and CW trilogy could get interesting.

[X3ROhour]

is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.

[Hellscream9999]

is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.

I am, but I guess we're in the minority

[durroth]

is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.

I am, but I guess we're in the minority

Honestly I'm more bothered by the fact Battletrap *does*, but that's just me.

Also, I vote we use Generations Trailbreaker as the standard measure for things getting shorter. If its not shorter than trailbreaker we're probably fine.

[wolverinetodd]

is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.

I'm a bit disappointed by that fact, but then Hasbro spoiled us by giving us two completely new Legends Class figures in POTP with Roadtrap and Battleslash to create Battletrap. Originally both Duocons were comprised of two vehicle alt modes that didn't have individual Con modes, but both vehicles combined to form one Con, just as we're seeing with Siege Skytread. If Hasbro had introduced Battletrap into the POTP Deluxe Class line as just one Con that transforms into two different vehicles, as it was originally in G1, then the reveal of Siege Skytread (Flywheels) wouldn't be an issue. Apparently there's no Legends Class in the WFC line, otherwise we might would've gotten a "Skyspear" and a "Dirt-Tread" that combine to form Skytread.

Considering I'm going to display both my POTP Battletrap and WFC Siege Skytread (Flywheels) in their combined Deluxe Class size Con forms, I'm okay with the way Skytread is.

[Carnivius_Prime]

is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.

I am, but I guess we're in the minority

Honestly I'm more bothered by the fact Battletrap *does*, but that's just me.

I think Skytread looks far better and has a more pleasing aesthetic and colour layout than Battletrap and obviously easier to buy both vehicles needed to make him since they're both in one Deluxe package whereas Battletrap's were two seperate Legends purchases (which often cost a fair chunk more than one Deluxe and many stores ran out of one or the other forcing customers to wait or look elsewhere before combining them into his actual true form). Some aspects of Battletrap's design feel worsened by making both sections into their own robot forms (Battletrap's hands in particular). That said, the arms of Skytread being quite noticable as junk under his jet component is somewhat off-putting but otherwise I think his vehicle components both look better than those of Battletrap. Can't have it all. Heck, part of the appeal of the original Duocon toys was the oddly satisfying (though purposely simplistic) transformation of pressing the air vehicle on top of the ground vehicle to make the robot pop into shape. I liked that but yeah...

[o.supreme]

The recent Seibertron galleries have shown the Transformers Siege toys to be smaller than previous incarnations. For instance, Siege Megatron and Hound are shorter than Titans Return Megatron and Combiner Wars Hound respectively. But does that mean we are getting ripped off? Especially since the MSRP is now $19.99 for deluxes and $29.99 for voyagers? Well ‎TF Fan West Lee, on Facebook, chose to look at this from a mass perspective. Figures in the past might be tall but if they are hollow, a very common complaint from fans, then maybe fixing that aspect might mean more material and thus lower the overall height for this line. And he found that this line offers more in terms of mass (and thus meterial) than previous lines. Here is what he had to say along with the images showing that Siege Megatron, for instance, has much more material than most other voyagers.

So...our toys are getting fatter, like me, not necessarily a good thing

[Emerje]

So...our toys are getting fatter, like me, not necessarily a good thing

Muscle weighs more than fat and this is looking like a strong series.

Emerje

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

The Universe Sideswipe mold is only half a head taller than Titans Return Highbrow (I happen to own Red Alert so I can check such things). It's tall next to, say, Generations Wheeljack but that's because he's squat like the original Wheeljack toy was.

Regarding Skytread and Battletrap:
1. The original Duocon toys never had separate robot modes for the components, so Battleslash and Roadtrap are effectively a bonus feature and nothing more.
2. Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.

And now some questions about Cog:
1. Do Gasket and Grommet use the same connector as the Duocons?
2. Has anyone tested whether either Gasket or Grommet can work as a Titan Master taxi as-is?

[o.supreme]

Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.

I know you added that "retail" part to justify Punch/Counterpunch, but I'd like to see said mandate. Also you can spin it the opposite way. One could say that Skytread was initially planned to be part of PotP, but because it was reduced to a 12 month line, Hasbro cut costs by ditching the individual bot mode designs, and just released it as a deluxe for the Siege line. ...I'm not saying this has any merit, but it is just as likely theorizing.

[YoungPrime]

Agreed. Here I was looking forward to Siege Sideswipe as a cheaper alternative to the Universe one. But now...


Now, not so much.

I was never that big a fan of that 2.0 Sideswipe mold. I honestly wish that Ironhide, Ratchet and Trailbreaker were that height and bulk in bot mode. While Siege Sideswipe's height would be fine.

[Evil Eye]

You know one of the things I'm happiest about with Siege? The Weaponizer gimmick is entirely based around 5mm ports, which means not only can you (as Ryan did) go crazy with mega-combinations, but literally any figure with 5mm ports is technically cross-compatible with the line. Like, if I'm not very much mistaken, Cog's torso/shield component could easily mount on Rook's shoulder, which combined with his already-present "power fist" gimmick with his combiner hand would allow for him to take his "violence arm" thing up to 11. Likewise, MechTech figures from DOTM made ample use of 5mm pegs and ports, so they can join in the fun too.

[Carnivius_Prime]

You know one of the things I'm happiest about with Siege? The Weaponizer gimmick is entirely based around 5mm ports, which means not only can you (as Ryan did) go crazy with mega-combinations, but literally any figure with 5mm ports is technically cross-compatible with the line. Like, if I'm not very much mistaken, Cog's torso/shield component could easily mount on Rook's shoulder, which combined with his already-present "power fist" gimmick with his combiner hand would allow for him to take his "violence arm" thing up to 11. Likewise, MechTech figures from DOTM made ample use of 5mm pegs and ports, so they can join in the fun too.

Mentioned a couple times that I'm almost certainly buying a couple of Lionizers to go with my SS Lockdown as his Steeljaws but I'll likely take photos of him wielding them in weapon form too. Using Firedrive with Titans Return Hot Rod probably gives him a decent gun (cos the two supplied with him looked ridiculous with the hollowed out seating space for the Titan Master) so he can stop envying the Takara version in that aspect. So yeah. More weapons are always a good thing! (I've always wanted weapon packs for Transformers, to help arm up all those who don't have a gun or could use more anyways) As long as they don't look silly like the Micromasters combined 'weapon' forms and actually look feasible as guns and melee weapons and such.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Power of the Primes had a mandate that all regular retail Deluxes be combiner limbs, so Battletrap was forced to be split between two Legends-class releases to come out at normal retail. Battleslash and Roadtrap were hastily made up because Hasbro couldn't justifiably sell toys that, on their own, were only half a robot.

I know you added that "retail" part to justify Punch/Counterpunch, but I'd like to see said mandate. Also you can spin it the opposite way. One could say that Skytread was initially planned to be part of PotP, but because it was reduced to a 12 month line, Hasbro cut costs by ditching the individual bot mode designs, and just released it as a deluxe for the Siege line. ...I'm not saying this has any merit, but it is just as likely theorizing.

I'm pretty sure someone has a quote from an interview or announcement handy about it, I seem to recall reading it in the PotP thread. And it's similar to the "Evewrybody above Legends is a Headmaster" mandate from Titans Return.

The mandate is evident in the Dinobots, in Jazz and Moonracer, in making Dreadwind and Blackwing from the Skydive and Air Raid molds (instead of something more suitable, especially in Dreadwind's case). It's also present at the Voyager level, resulting in Grimlock and Starscream's molds being made into combiner torsos. While I think the Dinobots, Jazz, Moonracer, and Starscream/Elita pull it off with aplomb... it's still something they weren't originally but had to be because of the line's directives.

If Skytread had been planned to have separate robot modes for his components - which I doubt - there would likely be vestigial traces.

[ScottyP]

is anyone else bothered
by the fact
that Skytread
doesn't become
two separate bots
as well as vehicles?

or is that just me?

maybe i missed a post.

I am, but I guess we're in the minority

I wouldn't use the term "bothered", but I am definitely disappointed that it doesn't. This is not because I necessarily want a Flywheels like that, it's because PotP Battletrap was amazing and I would like more toys similar to it.

[o.supreme]

Honestly, my disappointment, doesn't come from the toys themselves, Both Battletrap, and Skytread are uniquely great on their own. It's just the lack of consistency on the part of Hasbro that bugs me. Make them both with individual bot modes & combined mode, or just a combined mode, is all I would wish.

[Galvatronian]

Hadn't quite seen it that way, as like some others I agreed that battletrap should have been like skytread, but you reminded me of the joy of him when I first got him (having no idea there was a combined mode) and just exactly why it won toy of the year.
On the other note, we ask for less hollow transformers, they give it, then we're unhappy they are smaller? it just stands to reason, you can't have tall toys, no hallowness, the same price, good in both alts modes AND that intuitive/complex but not too complex, with a twist of clever transformation, it just doesn't work. More plastic, higher price. Scale up sideswipe or hound by a cm (1/3 of an inch), and it's volume increases a lot, probably putting up to voyager price point. If you really want perfect bots to perfect scale, not just fun kids toys with a g1 aesthetic buy masterpiece!

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Or, here's a thought, you people could stop acting like hollow thighs and such ruin a toy. Seriously, they aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be, get over it already.

I would rather have a Generations figure with hollow bits if it means said figure can stand next to both other CHUG toys and toys from mainline series (RiD, Unicron Trilogy, movieverse, Animated, Prime) without looking like a midget! That's half the fun of the CHUG toys in the first place. We're not asking for perfect scale, just for "good enough" scale. And the degree of shrinkage seen... It keeps them from being good enough.

[Evil Eye]

Hadn't quite seen it that way, as like some others I agreed that battletrap should have been like skytread, but you reminded me of the joy of him when I first got him (having no idea there was a combined mode) and just exactly why it won toy of the year.
On the other note, we ask for less hollow transformers, they give it, then we're unhappy they are smaller? it just stands to reason, you can't have tall toys, no hallowness, the same price, good in both alts modes AND that intuitive/complex but not too complex, with a twist of clever transformation, it just doesn't work. More plastic, higher price. Scale up sideswipe or hound by a cm (1/3 of an inch), and it's volume increases a lot, probably putting up to voyager price point. If you really want perfect bots to perfect scale, not just fun kids toys with a g1 aesthetic buy masterpiece!

Technically speaking, they could probably make them better than they are AND sell them at the same price, but that would mean shaving a few pennies off the CEO's profit margin. As is I think Siege looks awesome, but pretending that they have no choice but to hollow things out is disingenuous.

[AcademyofDrX]

I'm not going to invalidate others' criticisms of size, I'm just going to say that I think this line is exactly what I'm looking for. My end goal is a complete CHUG set for the 1985 catalog,* and I think the WfC trilogy is going to slot into that perfectly. T30 / Prime Wars Legends for Minibots and Insecticons, Unite Warriors Devastator, PotP Dinobots, WfC for Deluxe cars (assuming the next two lines complete the lineup), the Classics seekers, and the Siege Voyager commanders. T30 and TR fill in the gaps.

Will they all scale perfectly together? No. Legends will be a little small, the Leaders like Blaster will be too big, but I want to split the difference between you accuracy and cartoon accuracy, and I think this will do it.

As it is, I expect shorter Autobot cars to fit better beside the minibots and Classics seekers. Some people are happy with their less show-accurate decade-old CHUG collections, and that's fine. But I don't have one yet and I would rather be getting in on the ground floor with this line. Sure beats trawling eBay for those older figures.

* Not including the Deluxe Insecticons of course

[Emerje]

I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.



How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.

Emerje

[Wireless_Phantom]

I'm fine with some easily hidden gaps in the torso and hollowness in the arms and legs like we mostly see in combiners. What I can't overlook is what we've seen with Ironhide and his gaping holes.



How did that even get out of the production stage!? I'm seriously on the fence about getting him, he had better be a surprisingly large Deluxe to make up for all that empty space in his back and arms, but I doubt it looking at his SDCC display.

Emerje

To be fair I think that the hole in the back is where the head goes. The fore-arms are a bit annoying but there may be a reason.