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fenrir72 wrote:Fortmax is a risk investment as evidenced by using a shared mold instead of an entirely new design. It's a big bruiser. Limited market penetration. So if it doesn't sell enough, this might limit the amount of other subsequent projects in the pipeline.

Seriously man? Why are you treating this as some new thing? It's the third release in the f&%king titan class line. Obviously they're doing well enough to release a third figure and schedule/budget 3 more after it. You keep claiming econ 101, isn't the real first step in that whole process companies putting out product that meet consumer standards? This release doesn't for a lot of fans, get over it

Only person I saw going emo was the guy who used extra large font and different colors to emphasize why everyone should buy a figure they might not enjoy.

See, now I'm beginning to take some issue with that post.

For one thing, we have intelligent people here, and everyone can disagree, but there are degrees of fact. Dr. Va'al is very smart and he knows his stuff, so when he says trust him with regards to distribution outside the US, believe him. He knows.

Secondly, I did not decry anyone here as "heretic" or anything like that. I gave an honest opinion shared by several: A remold on that size is disappointing, and the lack of some extra oomph or extra pa-zaam like that of the original toy is a let down. Our opinion. You can advertise all you want, as we will display our opinions. But there are founded reasons for doubt, disappointment and apparent laziness.

Thirdly, I am a college student. I make about $6000-7000 a year gross, not net. I cannot afford big things like this a lot. I buy stuff on sale, cause that's how I find them, and I am patient enough to do so. I didn't have the resources to get Metroplex when he came out, so I had to get him cheap on ebay in an auction. Devastator was always meant to be a Christmas present, and the deals happened, and him being big meant he was still around, and still is. Sales are good. Others are fulfilling the quota of buying stuff up instantly at full price, I am simply an after-marketer usually.

Also, I think we need to try to move away from economics discussion in this thread. distribution is a whole other topic and is discouraging to readers of this thread. The same thing happened in the legends thread with the thought that Takara would actually convert headmasters into non-headmasters, which is no way been shown to be a founded argument, but the argument derailed the thread. Some people do understand economics, but some also don't want to hear about it.

So let's return to titans return, stay off economics, cool some of these arguments down some, shrink back down to our britches sizes, and keep going. This is a gentle reminder from staff. We don't need moderators getting involved please

On that note, We should be expecting more titans return stuff as well as mass release here very soon, so keep an eye out! Looks like legends and leaders may hit first.

Is everyone forgetting that we don't buy Transformers figures directly from Hasbro? Retailers, both brick and mortar and online, buy stock which they then resell to us, the consumer. Hasbro's sales are done when they sell to the retailers. Any one person buying Fortress Maximus or passing on him doesn't affect Hasbro's bottom line at all. What to be wary of is stores miscalculating the consumer demand, and either ordering too many, or not enough. The former is of more concern to them, honestly. Selling out your stock is always good, even if some people can't get what they want. Retailers with left over stock will either wait it out until it eventually sells, which for the case of an annual Titan class release, won't be taking up space for a competing SKU anyway, not until the next year's one comes out. Stores who don't want to deal with leftover stock will cut their losses and sell them to an outlet retailer for cheap (TJMaxx, Marshall's, etc.). Fortress Maximus is going to sell out, despite some adult collectors turning up their noses. Even if this Titan class release underperforms compared to expectations from Metroplex and Devastator, it will take a PATTERN of low sales to really start impacting the Titan class line. Everyone should chill out. Fort Max isn't make or break for Titan class figures. If you want him, buy him! If you don't, don't! Everyone wins!

Thanks for the comment Wolfman!

I would like to add something else. Feeling you overpaid for something is a real turnoff. No one wants to feel forced buying something. If you are turned off enough, you may want to stop collecting all togther, and then Hasbro and its retail distributors lose you as a customer for other upcoming products. A sale is always better than no sale.

You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

Ironhidensh wrote:You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

What if they switched back to the Supreme class assortment?

Ironhidensh wrote:You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

How about something the size of Armada Unicron? I remember saving up my money for so long, and spending an equivalent amount of time trying to convince my parents to let me get him way back when... Shame, looking back on him, you got so much bang for your buck

People were wondering f you could flip the legs of Fort Max to give him his city mode and the truth is you cant. What you can do it have his legs stick straight up off he ground and open his leg flaps. Its not great and doesnt work to me, but this is what people can get if they are desperate:

- from General Tekno

Mr Skram wrote:Only person I saw going emo was the guy who used extra large font and different colors to emphasize why everyone should buy a figure they might not enjoy.

It got your attention didn't it?

Sabrblade wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

What if they switched back to the Supreme class assortment?

Even that is pushing it. Big for the sake of big is a tired gimmick.

william-james88 wrote:People were wondering f you could flip the legs of Fort Max to give him his city mode and the truth is you cant. What you can do it have his legs stick straight up off he ground and open his leg flaps. Its not great and doesnt work to me, but this is what people can get if they are desperate:

- from General Tekno

With those non-Hasbro additions, shouldn't this go in the "Third Party Products" boards?

Ironhidensh wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

What if they switched back to the Supreme class assortment?

Even that is pushing it. Big for the sake of big is a tired gimmick.

Even if it's for characters who are supposed to be that big? I mean, would you really want a Unicron or a Metroplex that's the same size as Optimus Prime and Megatron?

Sabrblade wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

What if they switched back to the Supreme class assortment?

Even that is pushing it. Big for the sake of big is a tired gimmick.

Even if it's for characters who are supposed to be that big? I mean, would you really want a Unicron or a Metroplex that's the same size as Optimus Prime and Megatron?

Having had bigger figures, yeah, I'd rather size be capped at leader. I'm okay with gestalts being a bit larger, but the super sized figures just stand out to much. I'm far mor concerned with figure detail than scale anyway.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:You know, I actually wish Hasbro/Takara would drop and discontinue the Titan class. I swe it as wasted money that could be better served in the deluxe, voyager, and leader classes. Maybe get less reprints. Titan class is simply too dann big. It has no place in my collection, and as a parent, I'd never buy something so big and expensive for my kid as they will jusst break it during normal play. Its just a waste of resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

What if they switched back to the Supreme class assortment?

Even that is pushing it. Big for the sake of big is a tired gimmick.

Even if it's for characters who are supposed to be that big? I mean, would you really want a Unicron or a Metroplex that's the same size as Optimus Prime and Megatron?

Having had bigger figures, yeah, I'd rather size be capped at leader. I'm okay with gestalts being a bit larger, but the super sized figures just stand out to much. I'm far mor concerned with figure detail than scale anyway.

That's fair, but I always felt that the $50 Supreme class figures were a nice 'larger toy' than the titan class. I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well; but I wouldn't mind the return to the Supreme class, from a market perspective, I'm sure they would be more likely to sell to random people than titan class figures (assuming they exist, I haven't actually seen one at a store in person )

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

Hellscream9999 wrote:...but I wouldn't mind the return to the Supreme class, from a market perspective, I'm sure they would be more likely to sell to random people than titan class figures (assuming they exist, I haven't actually seen one at a store in person )

In the past three years, I've seen a Titan Class Transformers product on my local store shelves (Minneapolis/St. Paul area) all of ONCE. It was a lone Metroplex in a Toys "R" Us. I've not seen Devastator anywhere yet. Granted, I haven't been hunting for Transformers at my local stores lately, as I do most of my toy shopping online now. It's just so much less of a hassle that way.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

So? It showed that it can work; so it wasn't a ball with fangs - he had a nice ball-alt mode a few years earlier, it was different incarnation of him based on they're established continuity. Transformers change...

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

So?

Meaning that that toy isn't a good example of a small toy for a giant character since that toy wasn't of a giant character.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

So?

Meaning that that toy isn't a good example of a small toy for a giant character since that toy wasn't of a giant character.

Yes it is, he was smaller in the fiction they established, and it was clearly Unicron in a smaller - albeit different - body.

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

So?

Meaning that that toy isn't a good example of a small toy for a giant character since that toy wasn't of a giant character.

Yes it is, he was smaller in the fiction they established, and it was clearly Unicron in a smaller - albeit different - body.

You're saying the same thing I'm saying. Unicron in that form wasn't a giant character but a normal-sized character, with his toy likewise being a normal-sized toy instead of a giant toy.

An example of a smaller toy for a bigger character would be something like Movie 1 Deluxe Brawl vs. his being Leader-sized in the movie, or the Scout class-sized Hybrid Style Galaxy Convoy vs. his being Leader-sized in the show.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

So?

Meaning that that toy isn't a good example of a small toy for a giant character since that toy wasn't of a giant character.

Yes it is, he was smaller in the fiction they established, and it was clearly Unicron in a smaller - albeit different - body.

You're saying the same thing I'm saying. Unicron in that form wasn't a giant character but a normal-sized character, with his toy likewise being a normal-sized toy instead of a giant toy.

An example of a smaller toy for a bigger character would be something like Movie 1 Deluxe Brawl vs. his being Leader-sized in the movie, or the Scout class-sized Hybrid Style Galaxy Convoy vs. his being Leader-sized in the show.

Alright, those are more fair, I was just showing how it could work if reinterpretation of that character was involved, but to be fair, brawl was more of an up-scaling though

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:I mean, I think Cybertron Unicron showed us that deluxe representations of large characters can work quite well;

Except that that toy didn't turn into a planet-sized object. The Cybertron toy was a normal-sized body.

So?

Meaning that that toy isn't a good example of a small toy for a giant character since that toy wasn't of a giant character.

Yes it is, he was smaller in the fiction they established, and it was clearly Unicron in a smaller - albeit different - body.

You're saying the same thing I'm saying. Unicron in that form wasn't a giant character but a normal-sized character, with his toy likewise being a normal-sized toy instead of a giant toy.

An example of a smaller toy for a bigger character would be something like Movie 1 Deluxe Brawl vs. his being Leader-sized in the movie, or the Scout class-sized Hybrid Style Galaxy Convoy vs. his being Leader-sized in the show.

Alright, those are more fair, I was just showing how it could work if reinterpretation of that character was involved, but to be fair, brawl was more of an up-scaling though

And rightfully so, since he was way bigger than Jazz in the movie.

sigh ... topic please ...

This thread has taken a bizarre turn since I last looked

@Wolfman Jake, thanks for that post, I was thinking the same thing earlier!

I wonder when the rest of the titan returns line will appear, we've got sightings of fort and the legends wave 1 but still no deluxe, voyagers or leaders.