Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Seibertron]

The King Arthur aspect, is that like a nod to the time travel episode in Season 2 cartoon?

I think it's more a coincidence than anything, though it'd be really interesting if that episode actually somehow inspired all of this. Trying to put my "I pretend to know about things other than Transformers" shoes on, I've been reading a novel from one of my favorite series, the "Orion" series by Ben Bova, his 6th book which came out before anything about the Last Knight came about, has to do with a time traveler of sorts, Merlin, and King Arthur as well, so ironically similar, but I think that's just the point of having those characters in any sort of story that impacts modern day. A handy coincidence I believe is all it is.

Considering that King Arthur and Merlin do not actually show up in the G1 episode "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court", I think it's even more of a stretch to say that The Last Knight is in any way influenced by that not-so-great G1 episode.

[Seibertron]

When you say that Canopy is a tertiary character does that mean that he is pretty much a throw-away and dies immediately?

[Sabrblade]

Merlin? Merlin? MERLIN???? Ah, slaggin', crap. Please don't mix magic in. Please don't have magic mixed in my favorite sci-fi franchise...

There's been magic displayed in Transformers fiction before.

Alternately:

"The science of GoBotron would appear as magic to you humans." -- Cy-Kill.

[Burn]

The closest I'll get to Imax is Vmax and after watching AOE at Vmax I'm reluctant to do it again.

BUT ... I am tempted to try it again, even going for the 3D experience which can get annoying with glasses.

Thanks for making it difficult to decide Ryan.

[Nexus Knight]

Merlin? Merlin? MERLIN???? Ah, slaggin', crap. Please don't mix magic in. Please don't have magic mixed in my favorite sci-fi franchise...

There's been magic displayed in Transformers fiction before.

Alternately:

"The science of GoBotron would appear as magic to you humans." -- Cy-Kill.

Really? I can't recall when there was. Though, I could have just not seen it, so if you can point it out, I'll change my statement.

Of course, I'll take Thor's (or Cy-kill's ) brand that magic is science. Hell, the tablet I'm using would have had me put to the stake 1000 years ago. I have always had the idea that if magic can be explained away with logical explanations, it's not actually magic. I'm extremely against the concept of magic (for reasons that aren't appropriate for a TF forum), so I am a little worried about it being in a TF franchise.

[Ironhidensh]

Deep inside me, buried under the cynical, grumpy old man, is the remains of the little boy who loves Transformers and desperately wants to get excited for this movie, but I just can't. I've been hurt too many times.

Though, not seeing it may not be an option, as my oldest son has expressed an interest in seeing it, and it has been placed before him as a reward option.

Also, I found this on Facebook this morning:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4635291325


I haven't seen this on the site anywhere. First look at movie Hotrod? Granted, I've been avoiding movie talk like a plauge, so this could very well be old news.

[Burn]

I haven't seen this on the site anywhere. First look at movie Hotrod? Granted, I've been avoiding movie talk like a plauge, so this could very well be old news.

Yep, old news.

[dragons]

Poster is no poster it's giant floor mat

[RNSrobot]

Mm mm mm, that bay sausage tastes good.

Y'all been played.

[Dr. Caelus]

Merlin? Merlin? MERLIN???? Ah, slaggin', crap. Please don't mix magic in. Please don't have magic mixed in my favorite sci-fi franchise...

There's been magic displayed in Transformers fiction before.

Alternately:

"The science of GoBotron would appear as magic to you humans." -- Cy-Kill.

Really? I can't recall when there was. Though, I could have just not seen it, so if you can point it out, I'll change my statement.

In the original cartoon, iirc:
- There's a Quintesson sorceror who uses magic straight up.
- An Atlantean princess transforms Seaspray into a flesh and blood person.
- Unicron repairs and completely physically alters the bodies of several Decepticons without touching them.
- The Matrix heavily alters Hot Rod into Rodimus with no apparent physical mechanism.
- The Matrix blows up Unicron through sheer force of goodness.
- The Matrix cures the galaxy spanning hate plague basically the same way.
- Starscream becomes a ghost.

Beast Era
- Starscream is still a ghost.
- The Vok are incorporeal floating skulls. At some point you just have to call it what it is.
- Megatron's master plan in Beast Machines was to devour enough souls to become a god.

Car Robots
- IIRC villain fed on energy of Earth's children through demonic ghost bats or something.
- Same villain was defeated by the collective love of Earth's children.

Unicron Trilogy
- IIRC Unicron is destroyed by Minicons using the Care Bear Stare.
- Starscream tries to become a god.

Transformers: Animated
- Prowl's entire character arc.

Dreamwave's Transformers
- Bludgeon and his cult perform a demonic ritual to summon The Fallen (and succeed).

Transformers: Aligned Continuity
- The Blood of Unicron (Dark Energob) makes Zombies.
- The Forge of Solus Prime makes/fixes things by beating on them. Smokescreen LITERALLY heals Optimus by smacking him with the hammer of a god.
- Unicron can make rock golems.
- Megatron is bound to Unicron's service after death, because of using Dark Energon.

IDW Comics
- D-Void, The Darkness, the Dead Universe, and almost everything associated with them
- Alternate Rewind isn't erased from the universe when they destroy the alternate Lost Light, which they explicitly state has no scientific explanation.
- The Enigma of Combination, whose source code (which presumably is the same as all of the other Primal relics) basically gives a person godlike power.
- Anything Perceptor says (according to Hot Rod).

I'm not 100% on all of those but that's what immediately popped into my head.

[william-james88]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4635291325


I haven't seen this on the site anywhere. First look at movie Hotrod? Granted, I've been avoiding movie talk like a plauge, so this could very well be old news.

Thanks for sending this in via e-mail just in case, but we posted it last week, there was a whole bunch of motion posters and hot rod was one of em

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/new-transformers-the-last-knight-motion-posters-cogman-revealed/37589/

[Nexus Knight]

Merlin? Merlin? MERLIN???? Ah, slaggin', crap. Please don't mix magic in. Please don't have magic mixed in my favorite sci-fi franchise...

There's been magic displayed in Transformers fiction before.

Alternately:

"The science of GoBotron would appear as magic to you humans." -- Cy-Kill.

Really? I can't recall when there was. Though, I could have just not seen it, so if you can point it out, I'll change my statement.

In the original cartoon, iirc:
- There's a Quintesson sorceror who uses magic straight up.
- An Atlantean princess transforms Seaspray into a flesh and blood person.
- Unicron repairs and completely physically alters the bodies of several Decepticons without touching them.
- The Matrix heavily alters Hot Rod into Rodimus with no apparent physical mechanism.
- The Matrix blows up Unicron through sheer force of goodness.
- The Matrix cures the galaxy spanning hate plague basically the same way.
- Starscream becomes a ghost.

Beast Era
- Starscream is still a ghost.
- The Vok are incorporeal floating skulls. At some point you just have to call it what it is.
- Megatron's master plan in Beast Machines was to devour enough souls to become a god.

Car Robots
- IIRC villain fed on energy of Earth's children through demonic ghost bats or something.
- Same villain was defeated by the collective love of Earth's children.

Unicron Trilogy
- IIRC Unicron is destroyed by Minicons using the Care Bear Stare.
- Starscream tries to become a god.

Transformers: Animated
- Prowl's entire character arc.

Dreamwave's Transformers
- Bludgeon and his cult perform a demonic ritual to summon The Fallen (and succeed).

Transformers: Aligned Continuity
- The Blood of Unicron (Dark Energob) makes Zombies.
- The Forge of Solus Prime makes/fixes things by beating on them. Smokescreen LITERALLY heals Optimus by smacking him with the hammer of a god.
- Unicron can make rock golems.
- Megatron is bound to Unicron's service after death, because of using Dark Energon.

IDW Comics
- D-Void, The Darkness, the Dead Universe, and almost everything associated with them
- Alternate Rewind isn't erased from the universe when they destroy the alternate Lost Light, which they explicitly state has no scientific explanation.
- The Enigma of Combination, whose source code (which presumably is the same as all of the other Primal relics) basically gives a person godlike power.
- Anything Perceptor says (according to Hot Rod).

I'm not 100% on all of those but that's what immediately popped into my head.

Maybe it's how I view "magic" as being, but many of these I don't consider to be so. I'm like my family, they have to outright state it as so for us to consider it magical. But several of these (like the Quintossen sorcerer, which I'd forgotten about) are on that fence, so I take back what I said. Though, would point out, Starscream was told to have a spark defect, which is why it's indestructible.

Maybe I'm overworrying, but hopefully the movie won't be ruined by it (at least, personally).

[Sabrblade]

Maybe it's how I view "magic" as being, but many of these I don't consider to be so. I'm like my family, they have to outright state it as so for us to consider it magical. But several of these (like the Quintossen sorcerer, which I'd forgotten about) are on that fence, so I take back what I said. Though, would point out, Starscream was told to have a spark defect, which is why it's indestructible.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider most of those examples in that list to be magic, but instead more of hard sci-fi or alien nature. The Quintesson sorcerer definitely counts, though, as does the Golden One outright using magic incantations to cast spell attacks against said sorcerer, all of which happened in the G1 cartoon episode "Madman's Paradise".

Another example of pure magic from the G1 cartoon would be from the episode "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court", in which a wizard uses a magic spell to recharge the power-drained Autobots with lightning.

Heh, in fact, I just found out that the Wiki has a page for Magic.

[Giant Purple Griffin]

Another example of pure magic from the G1 cartoon would be from the episode "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court", in which a wizard uses a magic spell to recharge the power-drained Autobots with lightning.

Even though his name is Beorht, that wizard is basically Merlin anyway.

[Sabrblade]

Another example of pure magic from the G1 cartoon would be from the episode "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court", in which a wizard uses a magic spell to recharge the power-drained Autobots with lightning.

Even though his name is Beorht, that wizard is basically Merlin anyway.

There are some who call him... Tim.

[ScottyP]

I know those are dragon heads on the poster, but all I can see is Kremzeek.

[Ironhidensh]

I know those are dragon heads on the poster, but all I can see is Kremzeek.

I thought the same.

[NovaSentinel]

Looks alot like Megatron's Movie 1 body on that poster, maybe we'll see it again in a flashback sequence of the war on Cybertron?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Looks alot like Megatron's Movie 1 body on that poster, maybe we'll see it again in a flashback sequence of the war on Cybertron?

I was thinking the same. that is totally a movie 1 Megs and a movie 4 Prime

[Sabrblade]

The "Every Legend Hides a Secret" poster from Transformers: The Last Knight news article has the wrong news story on it.

[Dagon]

thanks to some clever editing, the plot wasn't revealed.

I'd actually bet that this is due more to the general condition of the Transformers movies being tragically light on plot rather than any meisterwerk of editing.

[Dr. Caelus]

I think I must have a much stricter definition of Science Fiction than most.

To me Science Fiction is things like Jurassic Park, Bladerunner, or The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - stories where some attempt is made to explain the fictional phenomenon (e.g., cloning dinosaurs), or at least indicate that within the context of that universe the phenomenon wouldn't defy such explanation (e.g., artificial intelligence). I'm even willing to grant the one-time-miracle discovery (e.g., time travel) provided it's the product of scientific research.

But if a story requires consistent suspension of disbelief in our current understanding of the universe, and characters who perform fantastical feats are not shown to be acting upon the fruits of scientific investigation, then the story, or at least those elements of the story, fall within the genre of Fantasy.

For example, a story in which two vastly powerful beings engaged in a cosmic scale eons long war eventually travel to the astral plane to fight there, then travel back to the physical plane as disembodied spirits and possess a pair of asteroids, which they then shape into planets according to their will - what aspect of science is there to that story? There is none, ergo - Primus and Unicron are as much fantasy characters as the Valar in Tolkien's books.

Honestly, the "magic is science we don't understand yet" bugs the heck out of me for three reasons:

(1) Given the formal definition of "science", the phrase, "science we don't understand" doesn't really make sense.

(2) If we adopt a broader definition of science, then in any universe where magic is studied and applied (e.g., Harry Potter) magic itself would be a science within the context of that world, making that story science fiction.

(3) You can literally say "it's science we don't understand" about everything that you encounter in reality or fiction. It would make everything science fiction, but clearly not everything is science fiction.

And this last point has practical relevance. I'm on my second submission of my first novel, and closing in on finishing the second. Submitting to a publisher necessitates defining the genre of the work. To my mind, both books are variations on fantasy, and I could never convince a publisher they're science fiction, even if I quoted Arthur C. Clarke in my query letter.

[Deadput]

thanks to some clever editing, the plot wasn't revealed.

I'd actually bet that this is due more to the general condition of the Transformers movies being tragically light on plot rather than any meisterwerk of editing.

Every story generally has a plot it's just that sometimes not every plot is a good one.

I've seen many movies worse then the Transformers series and still continue to do so it kind of raises their standards a little.

[Kurona]

Eh, it's an action movie. It's not heavy on plot and it really shouldn't be; movies of this sort work best with a relatively simple plot that's easy to follow with a few twists and turns inserted in there somewhere. It shares that much in common with the original cartoon:-

“...we feel action should be emphasised over plot—especially avoiding any complicated story lines—to ensure the success of this series with its intended viewers.”
—Bryce Malek and Dick Robbins

[william-james88]

Eh, it's an action movie. It's not heavy on plot and it really shouldn't be; movies of this sort work best with a relatively simple plot that's easy to follow with a few twists and turns inserted in there somewhere.

Thats what Logan was and it was perfect.