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Mindmaster wrote:

Optimus Payne wrote:I'm sorry but I have to disagree with most of these posters. I am really tired of writers writing Transformers like they were ordinary people and not highly advanced transforming aliens. I mean, hangin' out in the bar getting drunk? Then getting in a bar fight with cadets? Cadets for what? They're friggin' robots! It's lazy writing in my opinion. And what's with Megatron? He has morals now? No. Me no likey. He should be a rat bastard. Some of you probably thinks this adds layers to his character but to me it's contrived and unoriginal. Darth Vader anyone? It would be much more interesting to me if he was always an a-hole and just decided he was better than everyone else. Kinda like my neighbor. I like the art though. And the story seems to be getting wider in scope which is a welcome change. I just wish they'd stop writing the dialogue and settings as if they are just big, mechanical humans, especially on their home planet!

So what your saying is that regardless of the faction, the Transformers are mindless machines that have been programmed for a specific job? Oi, you're gonna have to watch every single series all over again...

Please. Isn't that what this issue is saying, that they were programmed for a specific function? I mean how can super-advanced machines (and yes, they are still machines regardless of sentience or not) still have apartheid? Of all the things sentient robots could be doing pre-war, hanging out in a diner getting drunk and getting into bar-fights is not all that original.

And by the way I have been watching and collecting G1 from the beginning, and while each bot has their own distinct human-like personality, their CULTURE has always been different than ours. IDW just seems to be making Cybertron and interchangeable city on Earth (with a very western world feel at that).

If you want a more compelling look at what a technologically superior race of robots might look like then you have the Matrix trilogy

Plus my comments about characterization are still valid.

Can we keep Roberts, because this was excellent and actually makes me want to start collecting this series again.

BATTOUSAI XD wrote: I love Megatron's look! I would kill for a toy of that.

Seconded. Definitely want some Manual Labourer TFs!

Optimus Payne wrote:And by the way I have been watching and collecting G1 from the beginning, and while each bot has their own distinct human-like personality, their CULTURE has always been different than ours. IDW just seems to be making Cybertron and interchangeable city on Earth (with a very western world feel at that).

Let's see...
G1 cartoon: Decepticons getting actually DRUNK from energon.



G1 comic: there were more of human-like traits than anything, starting from Maccadam's Oil House to Megatron having a throne, and so on...

If you want a more compelling look at what a technologically superior race of robots might look like then you have the Matrix trilogy.

Watch Animatrix. The robots started their own city on the image of human cities.

Don't forget guys that James is going to be one of our guests at Auto Assembly this year and there's still time to book your tickets! I know he's pretty excited to be there, and can't wait to get on stage for the Q&A Panel!

Wow, this is awesome. Between Simon Furman, James Roberts, Nick Roche, Russel T Davies, Steven Moffat, and Warren Ellis, the brits know how to write Sci-FI like they mean it.

Chaoslock wrote: Watch Animatrix. The robots started their own city on the image of human cities.

Animatrix was awesome, way better than the live action trilogy.

Transformers have always had human characteristics, since their first bios were printed on the back the package. Every single comtinuity is fully humanized (except for maybe the film series). Worst offenders: Beast Wars, G1, Robots in Disguise, Animated.

That sets apart Transformers from most giant robots, Transformers have souls.
Plus, if they didn't have human-like characteristics and societies, all media would be focusing enterily on the humans since the Transformers aren't that relatable. AND WE WOULD ALL HATE THAT.

James Roberts? The one who wrote Eugenesis? I'm literally crying over here! I LOVED Last Stand of the Wreckers and I really like this preview! I hope IDW keeps him!

Yeah, he wrote Eugenesis & co-wrote LSotW with Nick Roche.

Is this the first issue of Ongoing he's written? Just so I know what issue to start buying/reading Ongoing at again. And how many issues is he scheduled for?

this is the first issue he's done and he's only rostered for one other (24 i think)

BUT.

he is effectivly co writer as he's been given credit for coming up with the chaos storyline with costa which is why IMO issue 21 doesnt suck donkey balls.

i dropped the comic back at issue 8 when scrapper got offed by spike but im back on board for this one as roberts fingers are all over it.

also he's meant to be doing number "125" with barber so if you only want roberts stuff he's there too.

partholon wrote:this is the first issue he's done and he's only rostered for one other (24 i think)

BUT.

he is effectivly co writer as he's been given credit for coming up with the chaos storyline with costa which is why IMO issue 21 doesnt suck donkey balls.

i dropped the comic back at issue 8 when scrapper got offed by spike but im back on board for this one as roberts fingers are all over it.

also he's meant to be doing number "125" with barber so if you only want roberts stuff he's there too.

Cheers, for the info Heh, I dropped Ongoing around the same time. I think I'll pick up 21-24, at least in digital form for now to see if it's worth getting back in.

Hmmmm, I'm surprised that no one has chimed in on this comic yet.

Spoiler free (at least no details)

The preceding issue, #21, splits the Autobot forces in two groups. Cybertron bound Autobots and the bots left back on Earth. I picked up #21 since there was a copy still available when I picked up #22. Kinda glad I got that issue as well just to give me a good lead into this issue and the upcoming Chaos story line.

So I haven't been reading any Transformers comics in MONTHS(!!) and I knew that James Roberts was going to be making his ongoing contributions to issue #22 and #23. Well folks, the wait is over and if anyone is looking for a good point to come back into reading in the IDW fold, now is the time. (At least with the James Roberts written issues) The word best describing this issue would be "exposition". Finally we get some great dialogue and deep insight into the relationship between Megatron and Optimus Prime and these two chat it up like old foes reminiscing the old war days, only that this war isn't over yet. Before this issue, I would pretty much think that the relationship between Megs and Prime would be stale to me. Just same old rival vs arch-rival, but this issue brings so much more dynamic to these two crucial parts to the Transformers lore that kept me glued to the pages with excitement and enthusiasm that even the movie didn't capture for me.

I don't want to get all caught up on just Prime and Megs either, the rest of the comic is satisfying with an Autobot council meeting and how the universe views the Cybertronian race. It makes this universe grand again. Nice to see lil easter eggs here and there as well. As most have read from the 7 page preview, I just want to put my 2 cents in on how much I love the opening sequence with Megs and Impactor chatting it up in Macadams and how that their functions were miners and showed how there is separation from the working miner class from the governing class. Just my opinion, but that mirrors the world so much to me.

Milne has also brought his A game to this one. I always liked his style, sometime there is to much going on in a panel, but not this time. Everything is clear and concise. Coloring is amazing with Joanna Lafuente on duties.

I know some of you may wait for the TPB, I was thinking about doing that as well, but I'm glad I didn't wait. I have read this issue over and over again and it is one of the few comics that I think is actually worth its actual price for once. I can only hope that the future of Transformers comics will be this great. I am so eager to read the next James Roberts written issue. This is a person that gets what I perceive to be what most of us wants from a Transformers comic. So engaging and entertaining. It has changed my views of Megs and Prime in such a good way that I want to go on with spoilers, but I won't. The joy is reading the issue for yourself and just experiencing this beautifully crafted comic. I am gushing with just this one issue.

A+ all around for the whole team that put this comic together.

maybe people are STILL shellshocked by it !



got through reading it today.

best comic IDW have put out in about 3 years, and yes im including LSOTW in that.

one of the most nuanced ,layered in depth exploration of our two most iconic characters thats ever been done.

so many ideas are just casually thrown out in this its unreal. roberts has grown the scope of the TF universe again in the space of 22 pages and the dialogue literaly lifts off the page.

this book is a dense read.

the rest of it is just a text heavy as the 7 page preview but everything in it is so interesting youll be enthralled by it. this bodes very VERY well for roberts ongoing book.

if your a TF fan just BUY the bloody thing.

you wont regret it

I love that no matter what, Megatron was able to prove that the Autobots are still as flawed and imperfect as ever. I love how the books mirrors his abuse in autobot custody with Whirl from the past, and then in the present day when he pushed the ever so "noble" Optimus Prime, he was "abused" yet again. And that's what was so deep. Megatron, in a sense, broke Prime. He pushed Prime's buttons and he "won". And Prime knew it too.

I really enjoyed issue 22. I hope we get more insight into the history of Megatron and Optimus Prime. I know James Roberts was handed the characterization of OP from Costa but I do find this version of OP to be less than compelling due to some of the dialogue and behavior of the character.

Convotron wrote:I really enjoyed issue 22. I hope we get more insight into the history of Megatron and Optimus Prime. I know James Roberts was handed the characterization of OP from Costa but I do find this version of OP to be less than compelling due to some of the dialogue and behavior of the character.

I think that this version of Optimus is one of the best, it's a great departure from the flawless 1 dimensional character we always get.

Making Optimus flawed adds to his character, it gives him options to grow and overcome his flaws as the story progesses. I think that the current storyline will have this as one of its themes, Prime will eventually overcome Megatron and fight him with new resolve.

A "perfect" character who always has the moral highground gets boring after a while since the character doesn't need to grow and change.

Stormwolf wrote:I think that this version of Optimus is one of the best, it's a great departure from the flawless 1 dimensional character we always get.

Making Optimus flawed adds to his character, it gives him options to grow and overcome his flaws as the story progesses. I think that the current storyline will have this as one of its themes, Prime will eventually overcome Megatron and fight him with new resolve.

A "perfect" character who always has the moral highground gets boring after a while since the character doesn't need to grow and change.

I never said I had an issue with the character being flawed. What I'm talking about is the dialogue and behavior of the character. TFA OP is flawed and that's one of my favourite incarnations of OP.

The problem with OP being flawed for the necessity of showing that the character can grow and overcome flaws is that IDW OP is flawed majorly at times. He's a veteran military commander with millions of years of experience. Yet he behaves at times like he's some rookie officer in command for the first time. Then again, he also behaves admirably at other times.

For example, on page 9, bottom lefthand panel, OP says:

IDW Optimus Prime wrote:I don't know how I feel about you. Hate is too simple a word. Too...easy. It might sustain you, Megatron, but it diminishes me. I am lessened by it.

Now I think that's a great bit of dialogue for OP. It gives us an Optimus Prime that has more depth in that he admits that he doesn't know how he feels about his greatest enemy, yet he doesn't deny that he harbours ill feelings about Megatron. This gives us a more grounded and less perfect OP but also one that has dignity. This is, in my opinion, one great moment that shows how much more compelling IDW OP can be.

However, that one step forward is put two steps back when OP has a mini freak out when Rodimus informs OP about the overheard conversation. He tells everyone to get out and then sits alone in the dark, having a pout or something. Then OP goes back into the holding cell and says:

IDW Optimus Prime wrote:Shut up. I don't have time to spar. This is the last time we speak.

He goes through a tough guy routine, foolishly thinking that he could ever pressure Megatron through such means. Then he uses the VVH on Megatron out of frustration.

The character basically has an emotional glass jaw. It doesn't take much to shatter his composure. Sure, one could rationalize the stress of the events in the IDW comics that have lead up to this but he's not just flawed, he's woefully weak psychologically.

I know it was Costa, not Roberts, who wrote this but in issue 18, OP basically says "Why can't you ever die?" when the kinetic harpoon maneuver doesn't kill Megatron. I couldn't help but laugh because of the silliness of that bit. OP breaks his ion rifle on Megatron's head, then grabs him by the throat! I mean, really, IDW Megatron and OP aren't equals by any means. Megatron is OP's superior in every way.

With how the IDW OP has been written so far, I just can't believe that Megatron and the Decepticons haven't unequivocally defeated Optimus Prime and the Autobots because OP doesn't seem to possess the mental stability or fortitude that the Autobot's commander should have.

I agree that a flawed character is more compelling but IDW OP comes off, more often than not to me, as a big goon.

So I take it what Jazz did is being swept under the carpet?

Lord Raze wrote:So I take it what Jazz did is being swept under the carpet?

And that's why it's better that Costa leaves IDW for good.


In my opinion, this issue was superior to all of the Ongoing to this point combined. Not because the events, but the writing.

Sorry for going off tangent here, but can someone who's more knowledgeable in the IDW-verse explain how Megatron and Galvatron are two different entities?

Blurrz wrote:Sorry for going off tangent here, but can someone who's more knowledgeable in the IDW-verse explain how Megatron and Galvatron are two different entities?

Galvatron was part of Nova Prime's/Nemesis Prime crew aboard the first Ark long before Megatron even existed. Nova Prime screwed up and got himself and his crew including Galvatron trapped in the dead universe, where they died and where turned into undead robots.


Furman wanted to go a different route with the comic, he knew he had to introduce Galvatron down the road since he's a fan favourite, but didn't want to have to rehash Unicron. So he decided to have Galvatron as a separate being from Megatron so that he could develop them in new different ways from their traditional interpretation. But then IDW removed him in favour of AHM.