Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Optimizzy]

I guess I'll have to be the one voice of dissent here. I can't even express my disappointment on this.

I don't want the DJD humanized, I especially don't want them having a mom. For many reasons, especially a feminist point of view, but I won't go there. Too hot of a topic.

The big thing is, why do we have to turn the Decepticons into pussy cats?

I do feel that it is important to make the Decepticons less 1 dimensional... bad because they're the bad guys. I like my bad guys to have a reason for it beyond "Because I am bad."

Depth, personality, reason, yes. Cutesy... it spoils the appeal of the DJD (I probably wouldn't even think twice about it if it was any other Decepticons). The DJD are monsters, why can't they remain that way? Why does everything scary (some of us like things scary) have to become Tumblr girl squee-fest material?

I wanted more depth to the DJD,but I was thinking more... I dunno, reason they were chosen, what personality/life event quirk brought them to where they are now. Not cookies, goodnight kisses, and motherly scolding.

I think the problem is after their first appearance, and the alternate probability of them shown in the slaughter-hause; there's no way to develop them further without making them look more like wrestling heels, without changing the tone. Based on their few issues alone, one would think they've been booked to be the most OP transformers ever; to the point of why isn't the next issue, "DJD goes on rampage, Kills everyone everywhere". If they did something that was just this is how american psycho #1 got his/her job, it would get boring, especially considering the DJD haven't been shown before this point to have anymore character than "I love blood and violence! I've got a boner for murder!".

I think there are ways to preserve those fearsome rep, without making them cute. The religious aspect is good. The idea that they may not be happy with what they do but so it anyway could be better explored. The whole mom thing though just degrades it a bit.

[SW's SilverHammer]

I guess I'll have to be the one voice of dissent here. I can't even express my disappointment on this.

I don't want the DJD humanized, I especially don't want them having a mom. For many reasons, especially a feminist point of view, but I won't go there. Too hot of a topic.

The big thing is, why do we have to turn the Decepticons into pussy cats?

I do feel that it is important to make the Decepticons less 1 dimensional... bad because they're the bad guys. I like my bad guys to have a reason for it beyond "Because I am bad."

Depth, personality, reason, yes. Cutesy... it spoils the appeal of the DJD (I probably wouldn't even think twice about it if it was any other Decepticons). The DJD are monsters, why can't they remain that way? Why does everything scary (some of us like things scary) have to become Tumblr girl squee-fest material?

I wanted more depth to the DJD,but I was thinking more... I dunno, reason they were chosen, what personality/life event quirk brought them to where they are now. Not cookies, goodnight kisses, and motherly scolding.

I think the problem is after their first appearance, and the alternate probability of them shown in the slaughter-hause; there's no way to develop them further without making them look more like wrestling heels, without changing the tone. Based on their few issues alone, one would think they've been booked to be the most OP transformers ever; to the point of why isn't the next issue, "DJD goes on rampage, Kills everyone everywhere". If they did something that was just this is how american psycho #1 got his/her job, it would get boring, especially considering the DJD haven't been shown before this point to have anymore character than "I love blood and violence! I've got a boner for murder!".

I think there are ways to preserve those fearsome rep, without making them cute. The religious aspect is good. The idea that they may not be happy with what they do but so it anyway could be better explored. The whole mom thing though just degrades it a bit.

Okay then, here's a serious question, what does the DJD do when they aren't murdering and torturing people?

[sneakycheapy]

I guess I'll have to be the one voice of dissent here. I can't even express my disappointment on this.

I don't want the DJD humanized, I especially don't want them having a mom. For many reasons, especially a feminist point of view, but I won't go there. Too hot of a topic.

The big thing is, why do we have to turn the Decepticons into pussy cats?

I do feel that it is important to make the Decepticons less 1 dimensional... bad because they're the bad guys. I like my bad guys to have a reason for it beyond "Because I am bad."

Depth, personality, reason, yes. Cutesy... it spoils the appeal of the DJD (I probably wouldn't even think twice about it if it was any other Decepticons). The DJD are monsters, why can't they remain that way? Why does everything scary (some of us like things scary) have to become Tumblr girl squee-fest material?

I wanted more depth to the DJD,but I was thinking more... I dunno, reason they were chosen, what personality/life event quirk brought them to where they are now. Not cookies, goodnight kisses, and motherly scolding.

I think the problem is after their first appearance, and the alternate probability of them shown in the slaughter-hause; there's no way to develop them further without making them look more like wrestling heels, without changing the tone. Based on their few issues alone, one would think they've been booked to be the most OP transformers ever; to the point of why isn't the next issue, "DJD goes on rampage, Kills everyone everywhere". If they did something that was just this is how american psycho #1 got his/her job, it would get boring, especially considering the DJD haven't been shown before this point to have anymore character than "I love blood and violence! I've got a boner for murder!".

I think there are ways to preserve those fearsome rep, without making them cute. The religious aspect is good. The idea that they may not be happy with what they do but so it anyway could be better explored. The whole mom thing though just degrades it a bit.

Okay then, here's a serious question, what does the DJD do when they aren't murdering and torturing people?

Anything is preferable to being scolded by some mother-like character. Praying, writing, but really any activity that would support their depiction as the big bad and not degrade it.

I've always been a big fan of Roberts, but this... This is a real misstep, IMHO. But hey - it's only a preview. Maybe he can redeem it.

[ctrlFrequency]

I think the problem is after their first appearance, and the alternate probability of them shown in the slaughter-hause; there's no way to develop them further without making them look more like wrestling heels, without changing the tone. Based on their few issues alone, one would think they've been booked to be the most OP transformers ever; to the point of why isn't the next issue, "DJD goes on rampage, Kills everyone everywhere". If they did something that was just this is how american psycho #1 got his/her job, it would get boring, especially considering the DJD haven't been shown before this point to have anymore character than "I love blood and violence! I've got a boner for murder!".

Okay, I completely agree with your point on becoming 1 dimensional. There is, however, a difference between horror and gore. You can keep the horror element without degrading it into "and the DJD come along and kill everyone... again" Horror is layers. Gore is... well the DJD kill everyone... again. Horror keeps you up at night. Horror plays on your fear and paranoia in deliciously creative ways.

Personality and depth doesn't have to be boring resumes. Personality is Megatron starting a revolution because a caste system needed torn down, then spiraling out of control. Personality has, however, become turning everything cute.

Some things shouldn't be cute. The DJD, in my opinion, should keep you up at night and certainly not making you want to hug them.

I should never want to say "Awww! ♡♡♡♡♡" when it comes to them, I want to fear them, not see them brush their teeth with mom.

[Psychout]

I guess I'll have to be the one voice of dissent here. I can't even express my disappointment on this.

I don't want the DJD humanized, I especially don't want them having a mom. For many reasons, especially a feminist point of view, but I won't go there. Too hot of a topic.

The big thing is, why do we have to turn the Decepticons into pussy cats?

I do feel that it is important to make the Decepticons less 1 dimensional... bad because they're the bad guys. I like my bad guys to have a reason for it beyond "Because I am bad."

Depth, personality, reason, yes. Cutesy... it spoils the appeal of the DJD (I probably wouldn't even think twice about it if it was any other Decepticons). The DJD are monsters, why can't they remain that way? Why does everything scary (some of us like things scary) have to become Tumblr girl squee-fest material?

I wanted more depth to the DJD,but I was thinking more... I dunno, reason they were chosen, what personality/life event quirk brought them to where they are now. Not cookies, goodnight kisses, and motherly scolding.

I think the problem is after their first appearance, and the alternate probability of them shown in the slaughter-hause; there's no way to develop them further without making them look more like wrestling heels, without changing the tone. Based on their few issues alone, one would think they've been booked to be the most OP transformers ever; to the point of why isn't the next issue, "DJD goes on rampage, Kills everyone everywhere". If they did something that was just this is how american psycho #1 got his/her job, it would get boring, especially considering the DJD haven't been shown before this point to have anymore character than "I love blood and violence! I've got a boner for murder!".

I think there are ways to preserve those fearsome rep, without making them cute. The religious aspect is good. The idea that they may not be happy with what they do but so it anyway could be better explored. The whole mom thing though just degrades it a bit.

Okay then, here's a serious question, what does the DJD do when they aren't murdering and torturing people?

Search for more heretics to murder and torture?

[ctrlFrequency]

Of course when Psychout gets involved... I want gin and tonic and horror

[SW's SilverHammer]

Okay, I completely agree with your point on becoming 1 dimensional. There is, however, a difference between horror and gore. You can keep the horror element without degrading it into "and the DJD come along and kill everyone... again" Horror is layers. Gore is... well the DJD kill everyone... again. Horror keeps you up at night. Horror plays on your fear and paranoia in deliciously creative ways.

Personality and depth doesn't have to be boring resumes. Personality is Megatron starting a revolution because a caste system needed torn down, then spiraling out of control. Personality has, however, become turning everything cute.

Some things shouldn't be cute. The DJD, in my opinion, should keep you up at night and certainly not making you want to hug them.

I should never want to say "Awww! ♡♡♡♡♡" when it comes to them, I want to fear them, not see them brush their teeth with mom.

The problem is the neither DJD, nor their acts have been portrayed as horror, just Ultra Violence. As much as they get off on murder, it's been established it's also a job for them. They are straight men for lack of a better term. Here's the thing though, people aren't just defined by their Id, or what they do, but the people around them. If you think about the people around them, Nickle has already had worlds more of implied development than the DJD. Why? Think about this; the DJD's acts have been portrayed as "horrors" when they're really ultra-violence, and the reason they do what they do, and how they go about it hasn't really been expended upon beside, "be appalled at the level brutal violence they partake in!". Nickle hasn't done anything being supportive to the DJD, which is more horrific pshycologically, the person who kills "cuz" or the person who supports them, cares for them, and helps them be better killers?

[sneakycheapy]

The problem is the neither DJD, nor their acts have been portrayed as horror, just Ultra Violence. As much as they get off on murder, it's been established it's also a job for them. They are straight men for lack of a better term. Here's the thing though, people aren't just defined by their Id, or what they do, but the people around them. If you think about the people around them, Nickle has already had worlds more of implied development than the DJD. Why? Think about this; the DJD's acts have been portrayed as "horrors" when they're really ultra-violence, and the reason they do what they do, and how they go about it hasn't really been expended upon beside, "be appalled at the level brutal violence they partake in!". Nickle hasn't done anything being supportive to the DJD, which is more horrific pshycologically, the person who kills "cuz" or the person who supports them, cares for them, and helps them be better killers?

OK but this preview opens quite nicely with a bit of characterization for Tarn - a lot of depth in that line about closing his eyes. And if Tarn is going to be our "depth" character in the DJD, especially since we all know he's Roller, it doesn't matter if the rest of them are straight Ultra Violence - they work as a contrast to the more philosophical, troubled Tarn.

Nickel may be "more horrific psychologically" on one level, but this portrayal is too cute and declawing to really work from that angle.

[ctrlFrequency]

The problem is the neither DJD, nor their acts have been portrayed as horror, just Ultra Violence. As much as they get off on murder, it's been established it's also a job for them. They are straight men for lack of a better term. Here's the thing though, people aren't just defined by their Id, or what they do, but the people around them. If you think about the people around them, Nickle has already had worlds more of implied development than the DJD. Why? Think about this; the DJD's acts have been portrayed as "horrors" when they're really ultra-violence, and the reason they do what they do, and how they go about it hasn't really been expended upon beside, "be appalled at the level brutal violence they partake in!". Nickle hasn't done anything being supportive to the DJD, which is more horrific pshycologically, the person who kills "cuz" or the person who supports them, cares for them, and helps them be better killers?

I disagree on the horror element, I think it hasn't been developed and now it's looking grim.

But the foundations were set with characters outside the DJD describing them. They are, for lack of a better term, things that go bump in the night to the characters in the story. And from their the characters have embellished and heightened and created the horror. Right now it may be all in the minds of the fictional characters, but they are afraid of the DJD and not just because they killed a bunch of guys.

The biggest problem with this is instead of given them any sort back up to their reputation, Roberts went with a frankly over used plot device of cute-ing them. Oh look at the big bad DJD and their mom (again, as a woman, a feminist, and a mother, I hate this)! I can already hear hundreds of Tumblr and Deviant Art fan girls scribbling away at their art pads making (even more) DJD chibis with little hearts above their heads and hugging each other.

But beyond my obvious disdain for making everything cute, I think we're missing out on a real story here. Cute is superficial. I don't care how you spin it, it is the easiest, laziest way to develop story and call it dichotomy/depth. Instead we aren't delving into the depths that made monsters, we're.. well.. you know.

Nickel may be "more horrific psychologically" on one level, but this portrayal is too cute and declawing to really work from that angle.

Exactly.

Said in less words than I did (too many words is my downfall)

[Ironhidensh]

I guess I'll have to be the one voice of dissent here. I can't even express my disappointment on this.

I don't want the DJD humanized, I especially don't want them having a mom. For many reasons, especially a feminist point of view, but I won't go there. Too hot of a topic.

The big thing is, why do we have to turn the Decepticons into pussy cats?

I do feel that it is important to make the Decepticons less 1 dimensional... bad because they're the bad guys. I like my bad guys to have a reason for it beyond "Because I am bad."

Depth, personality, reason, yes. Cutesy... it spoils the appeal of the DJD (I probably wouldn't even think twice about it if it was any other Decepticons). The DJD are monsters, why can't they remain that way? Why does everything scary (some of us like things scary) have to become Tumblr girl squee-fest material?

I wanted more depth to the DJD,but I was thinking more... I dunno, reason they were chosen, what personality/life event quirk brought them to where they are now. Not cookies, goodnight kisses, and motherly scolding.

I think the problem is after their first appearance, and the alternate probability of them shown in the slaughter-hause; there's no way to develop them further without making them look more like wrestling heels, without changing the tone. Based on their few issues alone, one would think they've been booked to be the most OP transformers ever; to the point of why isn't the next issue, "DJD goes on rampage, Kills everyone everywhere". If they did something that was just this is how american psycho #1 got his/her job, it would get boring, especially considering the DJD haven't been shown before this point to have anymore character than "I love blood and violence! I've got a boner for murder!".

Was it really an alternate probability? I thought it really happened, just to quantum doubles. I was under the Impression that the DJD is running around assuming they took out Overlord and the Lost Light.

[Deadput]

You guys are saying that the DJD are soft now because someone else is looking after them who is not even a member herself?




The DJD hunt down traitorous or possible threat inducing Decepticons and kill Autobots that get in the way but the DJD are still Decepeticons themselves why can't they interact with their allies?


Because their sadistic towards their TARGETS/ENEMIES?

[SW's SilverHammer]

The problem is the neither DJD, nor their acts have been portrayed as horror, just Ultra Violence. As much as they get off on murder, it's been established it's also a job for them. They are straight men for lack of a better term. Here's the thing though, people aren't just defined by their Id, or what they do, but the people around them. If you think about the people around them, Nickle has already had worlds more of implied development than the DJD. Why? Think about this; the DJD's acts have been portrayed as "horrors" when they're really ultra-violence, and the reason they do what they do, and how they go about it hasn't really been expended upon beside, "be appalled at the level brutal violence they partake in!". Nickle hasn't done anything being supportive to the DJD, which is more horrific pshycologically, the person who kills "cuz" or the person who supports them, cares for them, and helps them be better killers?

Nickel may be "more horrific psychologically" on one level, but this portrayal is too cute and declawing to really work from that angle.

No it wouldn't work if the DJD had "claws". When it comes to their prowess, the're more inflated than wrestling heels, The Iron Sheik wasn't even billed to be that strong or crazy.

[Deadput]

Nickel may be "more horrific psychologically" on one level, but this portrayal is too cute and declawing to really work from that angle.

Nickle is not a DJD member herself she just looks after them as a medic and is justifiably angry with their state.

[Optimizzy]

The problem is the neither DJD, nor their acts have been portrayed as horror, just Ultra Violence. As much as they get off on murder, it's been established it's also a job for them. They are straight men for lack of a better term. Here's the thing though, people aren't just defined by their Id, or what they do, but the people around them. If you think about the people around them, Nickle has already had worlds more of implied development than the DJD. Why? Think about this; the DJD's acts have been portrayed as "horrors" when they're really ultra-violence, and the reason they do what they do, and how they go about it hasn't really been expended upon beside, "be appalled at the level brutal violence they partake in!". Nickle hasn't done anything being supportive to the DJD, which is more horrific pshycologically, the person who kills "cuz" or the person who supports them, cares for them, and helps them be better killers?

I disagree on the horror element, I think it hasn't been developed and now it's looking grim.

But the foundations were set with characters outside the DJD describing them. They are, for lack of a better term, things that go bump in the night to the characters in the story. And from their the characters have embellished and heightened and created the horror. Right now it may be all in the minds of the fictional characters, but they are afraid of the DJD and not just because they killed a bunch of guys.

The biggest problem with this is instead of given them any sort back up to their reputation, Roberts went with a frankly over used plot device of cute-ing them. Oh look at the big bad DJD and their mom (again, as a woman, a feminist, and a mother, I hate this)! I can already hear hundreds of Tumblr and Deviant Art fan girls scribbling away at their art pads making (even more) DJD chibis with little hearts above their heads and hugging each other.

But beyond my obvious disdain for making everything cute, I think we're missing out on a real story here. Cute is superficial. I don't care how you spin it, it is the easiest, laziest way to develop story and call it dichotomy/depth. Instead we aren't delving into the depths that made monsters, we're.. well.. you know.

Nickel may be "more horrific psychologically" on one level, but this portrayal is too cute and declawing to really work from that angle.

Exactly.

Said in less words than I did (too many words is my downfall)

Dang. When you're right you're right. And you're right. Especially about the chibis.

[Deadput]

The biggest problem with this is instead of given them any sort back up to their reputation, Roberts went with a frankly over used plot device of cute-ing them. Oh look at the big bad DJD and their mom (again, as a woman, a feminist, and a mother, I hate this)! I can already hear hundreds of Tumblr and Deviant Art fan girls scribbling away at their art pads making (even more) DJD chibis with little hearts above their heads and hugging each other.

But beyond my obvious disdain for making everything cute, I think we're missing out on a real story here. Cute is superficial. I don't care how you spin it, it is the easiest, laziest way to develop story and call it dichotomy/depth. Instead we aren't delving into the depths that made monsters, we're.. well.. you know.

Outside of Tailgate, Rewind and possibly Swerve I don't see how anything in Mtmte is cutefied.




Plus their not going to put the whole story in a preview the story is being saved for the you know story.

[Deadput]

Dang. When you're right you're right. And you're right. Especially about the chibis.

Except shes not right



She has an opinion and opinions are subjective their not facts same goes for me I have an opinion on this too which doesn't mean I'm right.





Simple facts of life.

[Optimizzy]

Dang. When you're right you're right. And you're right. Especially about the chibis.

Except shes not right



She has an opinion and opinions are subjective their not facts same goes for me I have an opinion on this too which doesn't mean I'm right.





Simple facts of life.

That's called a turn of a phrase. You see, I happen to agree with her. Thus, she is right in my eyes.

It did not need you to comment. I was not attacking anyone, but only agreeing.

You however... Well...I'll forgive it this once. Just cause I'm a swell chap.

But seriously, it's ok to critique something. It doesn't mean we don't like it. It means we care about it and want it to be the best it can be. Of course we all have our own opinions about that.

[ctrlFrequency]

You guys are saying that the DJD are soft now because someone else is looking after them who is not even a member herself?




The DJD hunt down traitorous or possible threat inducing Decepticons and kill Autobots that get in the way but the DJD are still Decepeticons themselves why can't they interact with their allies?


Because their sadistic towards their TARGETS/ENEMIES?

I think you miss the point. You don't have to be motherly scolding in an adorable way to do that job. As I said, it's more of an over used plot device to give depth. It was specifically to illicit one response... which was "Awww! Cute!" Which is exactly what everyone responded with.
I think that is lazy writing and hope beyond hope that this is not the way things will go through out the issue.

I'm not saying they have to be cruel and sadistic to each other (that would be very silly, and a lot of repairs), but why do we have to make it cute.

Outside of Tailgate, Rewind and possibly Swerve I don't see how anything in Mtmte is cutefied.




Plus their not going to put the whole story in a preview the story is being saved for the you know story.

I didn't say everything was cute. Just this.


And for the record, I'm not knocking Roberts either, but just because in general I like the way he writes does not mean:

1: I think less of him because he used an over used plot device. Everyone does once in awhile.

2: I have to fan girl over his work even if I think it's not the quality he is capable of. I don't fan girl.

Dang. When you're right you're right. And you're right. Especially about the chibis.

Except shes not right



She has an opinion and opinions are subjective their not facts same goes for me I have an opinion on this too which doesn't mean I'm right.





Simple facts of life.

Well, actually I am right about the Tumblr/Deviant Art girlies making chibis. Google DJD.... :/

But yes, it is an opinion. And my opinion is right. Your opinion is right. Everyone's opinion is right. But that doesn't mean I can't argue my opinion.

And thank you Optimizzy (I was afraid I'd be alone in my opinion, I just don't do socially acceptable cute. Bats are cute, darn it!)

[Optimizzy]

Cute Crawling Chaos.

Totes Adorb



...and thus less terrifying unfortunately

[ArmadaPrime]

Homestly, I quite enjoy Nickel so far. I was hoping for more humanisation of the group, and whilst it seems to have gone quite far down this route it is still only a preview. Besides, I personally feel that being that bit more friendly between themselves makes the contrast to their brutal personalities on the battlefield that bit more frightening. It's kind of the whole "how are these people capable of that" thing imo.

Also, note the conspicuous lack of either Kaon or Vos in the pages we've seen, neither of them have even been mentioned, even when referring to Kaon's pet. Is there any particular indication that what we're currently seeing is at the 'current' mtmte time, or even that things within the DJD haven't just changed drastically from when we saw them last? I have honestly no idea how the issue will play out and where it will take us, and I kinda like that.

[padfoo]

These guys used to give me nightmares. They were brutal think Last Stand of the Wreckers Overlord times 5, just brutal! While I like this preview, this is not the DJD, they make Cybertonians (and readers) piss their pants!

[Deadput]

These guys used to give me nightmares. They were brutal think Last Stand of the Wreckers Overlord times 5, just brutal! While I like this preview, this is not the DJD, they make Cybertonians (and readers) piss their pants!

Uhhhhhh the DJD still act the same as they do this is just the first time were seeing them away from the battlefield (or should I say slaughterfield )

[Deadput]

Edit: double post sorry my computer is lagging today

[Convoy]

I'm pretty darn unfamiliar with the DJD. I had to look them up the other day after seeing that comic cover with them on it. They just look really cool.
I saw, in this preview, a symbiotic relationship between the DJD and Nickel. Not unlike the mighty rhino and those cute birds that perch on thier back eating parasites. Or those cute little fish that keep the ferocious shark clean. The DJD wasn't being cute. They're just sitting there allowing their symbiotic partner to help keep them the fantastic killing machines they are.

[ricemazter]

Hmmmmm, I'm really not quite sure how to feel about this. I like the idea of Nickle, but it really is just too cute. Maybe if she looked less, for lack of a better word, chibi and more like a full sized transformer it would work better. Also, if her dialogue were tweaked a bit so she was less supportive and more biting. Not sure if anyone ever saw this, but in that CG clone wars show there was an episode where general greivous had a droid medic sort of thing that helped him out with repairs and whatnot. That robot was, if I remember correctly, very sarcastic and combative towards greivous but wasn't doting like nickel is here. I find it especially a shame, I want to like her and there really aren't enough female cons in the TF verse. Maybe this opens up a possibility to see an idw strika at some point though.

Speaking of Chibi's and tumbler, why is it that people feel the need to make all the horrible, sociopathic characters cute? Not knocking people's preferences, I just always found it odd in my opinion.