Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[william-james88]

Sometimes. If we are lucky. Not always though and usually it isn't. I'm talking about SRP though. And honestly, I think the idea that costs would be different in Japan is hard to trust. All the toys are made in China or Vietnam. If anything wouldn't it be more expensive to have them shipped to the states?

Well for the talk of the extra cost due to importing, this below comes straight from BBTS for their alternity line listing:

Please Note: These items are bought at retail in Japan and marked up before being sold to us - the price is high for an Alternity, but it is the only option.

Also, in terms of price, another example of Hasbro and Takara being the same is the price of some Masterpieces. The asia exclusive MP 10 was just a few dollars cheaper than the upcoming Takara reissue. And the Hasbro Datsun Mastepiece toys were even more expensive than the Takara versions and we know for sure that import does not factor even if it might simply be a myth in the other cases.

[Nemesis Maximo]

At least, based on Canadian price of 60$CAN+tx for a Hasbro leader, the Takara one at Amiami is around 55$CAN.
Add Shipping and the cost OF THE TAKARA IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE HASBRO WITH TAXES.

TAKARA IS SAME PRICE AS HASBRO FOR BETTER PAINTS APS!!!

Once again, privileged Americans live in another world, with their cheaper everything and all-the-time free shipping.

[Tsutsukakushi]

Doing some Wiki searches. America has much lower minimum wages than countries like Canada, Japan, Some European and Austrailia countries.

Doing more Wiki searches indicates. That America has more workers making minimum wage compared to the countries I just listed.

What does all of this have to do with Transformers toy prices in other countries? Everything, As the higher the minimum wage is and less workers on minimum wage is in some countries. The more things cost in that country due to having paying out those higher salaries. It's called evening things out.

[Burn]

The luxury tax is on imported motor vehicles, not Transformer toys.

How about YOU go do some research, in fact, try this.

[Va'al]

Thanks to wonderful fellow Seibertronian Generator_G1, we have a brief pictorial review of the recently shipped and released Generations Combiner Wars Leader Class Ultra Magnus in all his IDW aesthetics and features, such as Minimus Ambus. Read on below to find out what they think of the ex-Duly Appointed Enforcer of the Tyrest Accord, and for some nice in-hand shots of the toy, including comparisons with Classics Ultra Magnus and some more recent releases like the CW Armada Megatron and MP Smokescreen!

Just to consolidate and update my mini review (which is all over the place..lol)

Just some thoughts on Combiner Wars Ultra Magnus to those who might be interested....

1. His front panel detaches easily from the front. It still locks back into place though.
2. His shoulders are mistransformed out of the box, you have to push up until you hear a soft click to lock the shoulders.
3, His ratchets on his hips are very similar to CW Optimus as they only have a limited range of motion. Replacement ratchets would help here.
4. His cab does not detach from the trailer.
5. His feet are also mistransformed. Also no ankle tilts.
6. Minimus is pretty much required to sit inside Magnus in bot mode as he fills out the hollow area in the neck.
7. His elbows and knees are very soft ratchet joints. No loud clickety-clack sound from them.
8. Head only swivels from side to side. Can't look up unless you pop of UM's head and MA becomes visible.
9. He is very hollow when seen from the back. I guess some 3P would like to make fillers for the back of this legs and arms,
10. No wrist articulation.
11. His hands cannot hold his guns securely. They always fall off. I guess UM has butterfingers or something.
12. He does not roll very well. His crotch drags along the ground.
13, Minimus Ambus cannot be in the cab when UM is in vehicle mode. The inside of the cab is where the head goes.
14. No waist swivel.
15. Arms goes full 350 degrees at the shoulder/ Bicep swivels are present.
16. Thigh swivels are present.
17. No light piping on the Magnus head. He does have the aviator shades like in CW Defensor.

Vehicle comparison with Classics UM










Size comparison with other bots




Overall for me, the figure is a 7/10. He looks good on a shelf and is a very good representation of the IDW Magnus but the build quality is not up to par with the Leader Class Megatron / Armada Megatron that preceded it.

[-Kanrabat-]

The cost of importing Takara products into Australia works out to roughly the same price of buying Hasbro figures in Australian retail stores.

So ... yeah.

Same thing for Canada. The prices over here is a a point where if I but Hasbro, it's either due to a mad sale, a deco preference, of just dumb impatience.
For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

As usual, the "X" will keep ignoring us.

[Burn]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

[-Kanrabat-]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

[Burn]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

That ... seems kinda pointless. Just get Hasbro's UM if you want Minimus.

[-Kanrabat-]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

That ... seems kinda pointless. Just get Hasbro's UM if you want Minimus.

If I ever see Hasbro UM on clearance, like 30$, I will buy. For the time being, I think I will not ruin my Takara figure by gooping all over poor ol' Alpha Trion.

[Burn]

For the time being, I think I will not ruin my Takara figure by gooping all over poor ol' Alpha Trion.

[Wolfman Jake]

Those new in-hand shots look great, despite the reduced paint detailing on the Hasbro version. Can't wait to have this figure in my paws!

[Rated X]

Sometimes. If we are lucky. Not always though and usually it isn't. I'm talking about SRP though. And honestly, I think the idea that costs would be different in Japan is hard to trust. All the toys are made in China or Vietnam. If anything wouldn't it be more expensive to have them shipped to the states?

Well for the talk of the extra cost due to importing, this below comes straight from BBTS for their alternity line listing:

Please Note: These items are bought at retail in Japan and marked up before being sold to us - the price is high for an Alternity, but it is the only option.

Don you really believe Takara spends thousands to ship pallets of figures from their Chinese factory to Japan only to load them right back on another boat to North America ? I call total BS, especially if these factories are deep in the Chinese mainland thousands of miles from Japan. I truly believe they are loaded up into a cargo plane and shipped out the closest Chinese international airport just like the Botcon figures. Japanese cost of living and Japanese toy prices have nothing to do with the price increases. Its a total scam. The reason they do it is because we buy into it instead of telling them to go to hell with their price gouging. Takara probably sells more figures to westerners than they do in Japan based on the size of the island alone. And so ive heard, in Japan the real "Asian market" is all the goofy things westerners make fun of like super deformed robots and dumb novelty transformers that turn into memory sticks, teddy bears, disney characters, baseball caps, video consoles, etc. The "Asian market" has nothing to do with cartoon accurate decos and extra paint apps. Thats a myth. They stick it to us (myself included) because we keep buying into it like a bunch of suckers. Ive often speculated Hasbro and Takara collaborate on the paint sceme decisions before either version is produced. I believe the Hasbro version only exists to justify the price increase of the Takara "collectors version". They make that much more that its worth the effort to make two versions rather than just a one size fits all product. And different packaging is no excuse either. How many times have we seen Takara get lazy and throw a Japanese sticker right over the clear plastic on an American box ? How much extra could that cost ? And we as collecters totally allow it to happpen by buying Takara. (myself included) And to the other people posting up Eagles and Old Glory (which I have no idea why that started) Maybe we won the war 70 years ago, but financially Japan has destroyed us since the 80s. Go to Wall Street, youll see that Japan practically owns us since the age of modern electronics and economical cars. They are so smart, they manipulate cheap Chinese labor to make them rich. When was the last time you bought a TV with a sticker that said "made in Japan" ?

[Sabrblade]

Not sure why the term "Asian market" keeps getting tossed around when Takara only handles the Japanese market while Hasbro Asia covers all of the rest of Asia.

[Rated X]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Wouldnt it make more sense to buy the Hasbro version and paint the rims and very minor paint apps ? That is, unless you like the red thighs or the slightly different shade of blue that much...

[Sabrblade]

For any other reasons, I'm going Takara all the way. Why shouldnt I? EVEN WITH SHIPPING, it ammount to the same price as if I'd buy locally at full price! I get the Takara premiun paint job on top of that.

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

My Takara UM is already on pre-order. I wonder... Should I customise my Alpha Trion into a Minimus?

Wouldnt it make more sense to buy the Hasbro version and paint the rims and very minor paint apps ? That is, unless you like the red thighs or the slightly different shade of blue that much...

There's also different colored plastics involved:

[-Kanrabat-]

There's also different colored plastics involved:

Once again, this confirm Takara all the way for me.

[fenrir72]

Still too much money for just a Minimus Ambus figure

You know, if Japanese prices were more comparable in retail I would actually say get Takara and Hasbro and sell the Hasbro. But I mean, I hate the mark up TT does for some paint apps. Yeah they do look better and for deluxes I dont mind paying $10 more for awesome decos...but leader class that are almost $30 more? nah.

Paying 10$ more for a deluxe, or 30$ more for a leader ammount to paying 50% more. It's the same thing. Still, it may look bigger for you Americans.

No its not the same thing. This is not a math thing. Its a price gouging thing. Its clearly about how much more money can Takara justify adding to the price for a few extra swipes of paint. If $10 is the cost, then Takara UM should only cost $55. And if $30 is the cost, than every takara deluxe figure should cost $45. The few extra swipes of paint only have one cost to the factory no matter how big a piece of plastic they are painted on.

Engaging subject. But to put it simply......everything in Japan costs higher. Using as analogy, in the USA, a 12 episode BD compilation of lets say Samurai Girls/Fate StayNight would cost you $ 60.00. In Japan, thats just (1) episode/disc. They really do jack up the prices with all the bling that comes with it.

You also have to contend with packaging. Different fonts. Different instruction manuals plus those sales gimmicks where you scan the codes. That comes as extra cost for the advertisement sales gimmicks.

The extra apps also entail reassignment of painting resources. Now, it's more complicated with the programming of computer controlled resources. Of course, you add more paint. More paint......extra cost.

But it's done on the same plant? Yes it is but the product is programmed for a different market. Tomy isn't even considering the overseas market for their product. Iirc, in one of TFYuki tweets or was it in a Hobby magazine, the designers mentioned the foreign market as an after though when they repurposed Slingshot from another mold instead of A-B. So no huffing and puffing will ever get the prices to be at par with the USA domestic release.

Some of what you say has the potential to make sense, but I would be inclined to think the factory workers have the paint machine programming down to a science. The only difference is the size of the piece of plastic being painted. Some takara deluxes that get the shiny paint treatment actually have more paint apps than the larger takara voyager figures which never get shiny paint job, just a different shade of color plastic. Yet the bigger ones with less extra paint apps get a bigger price gouge.

And then sometimes you get the real suspect takara items...

Jetfire- Hasbro has chrome weapons while takara has no paint on the weapons, shouldnt Hasbro cost more ?

Springer- same paint apps different shades of green and yellow plastic. Where is the extra cost ?

Grapple -same figure but twice the price for a painted yellow head and an autobot tampo ?

Its a load of BS honestly. Which brings me to my next argument...been collecting CHUG since 2007 and still dont get this imaginary "Asian market". Especially when Takara has a tendency to replicate paint schemes designed by American animators for an American cartoon that Japan got a voiceover of. I used to argue with board members back in 2009 about Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge. Their response was other than botcon the US would never get them in retail because thats the "Asian market". Needless to say they ate their words eventually. But then the US gets Black Shadow (a Japanese character) from Hasbro but Takara never makes one. Shouldnt that have been the Asian market? And how about skids? Everyone anticipated a G1 accurate darker blue Takara skids that never happened. Instead takara decided to do Rollbar, an AOE homage of a non transformer vehicle in a movie made for western audiences. How is that the "Asian market" ? And then theres slingshot and wildrider who Hasbro introduced first before Takara. Once again, the "Asian market" doesnt seem so Asian all of a sudden. Wasnt the western market version supposed to be IDW Alpha Bravo ? Im surprised Takara beat Hasbro in announcing a deluxe CW Groove ? We all know the inevitable Hasbro version will come as an online exclusive on American websites. Ok Ive given enough examples, the bottom line is that there is no "Asian Market". Its all a scam to get collectors to buy online and spend more money for more desired paint schemes. And my arguement from the very beginning more desired doesnt necessarily mean more costly to produce by the factory. You cant tell me silver rims, some knee paint, and a few other small apps costs $30 more to program or produce. Its price gouging. Theyre coming out the same mold as the hasbro version and being shipped straight to American online retailers. So in reality Japans higher cost of living has nothing to do with the price difference. The Hasbro version is just as much an Asian import as the takara version. To make it even worse, the factory is in China, and the figures being dubbed "Japanese" have never even set foot on Japanese soil. Yet they are being sold at Japanese prices out of the same shipping container used to ship hasbro versions the same route overseas from China. And they try to justify it with 25 cents more worth paint applied by a guy they paid 2 dollars a day dirt cheap Chinese labor. Now do you see where Im going with this ? The Takara price difference is total BS just like the "Asian market".

If we are using the amiami/hobbysearch price reference, which I also failed to mention

amiami: Y 5650 (30%) at retail= Y 8100
hobbysearch: Y 6375 at retail= Y 7000

Price difference? Beats me.

You can huff and puff and blow the house down with your rant of an imaginary market. The Japan market IS different from the Asian Market. We can go on to geographics where Japan is but that's a marketing strat.Some TF stuff don't get released in Japan and Asia at the same time or vice versa. Pricing is waaaaaaaaaaaay different.

My post makes perfect sense. It's you who can't comprehend. In Japan, the standard of living is different to the USA. Everything costs more there. Their "hobby market" is different ther than good old US of A.

It is Kanrabat who does make sense when the American side of the Pacific keeps on complaining about prices when the domestic market is more price friendly than Japan or Asia. Here, you guys complain of lack of paint apps or in Metroplex's case, lack of guns and expect it to be priced less than the Tomy version?

In an ideal world, I wish both sides of the Pacific would release the same version at the same pricing but wer ARE in the REAL world where we don't always get what we want.

Also surprising that you complain of Hasbro's predatory pricing and still can afford tons of overpriced 3rd party figs. Don't hear you rave against their price range.

[BlueBefore]

price gouging.

I literally died of laughter. Lawsuit probably pending.

[fenrir72]

Also....these Tomy/Takara versions of UM etc....it's for the Japanese market. It's only now,thanks to the advent of PayPal, the internet, seibertron and like sites that we have the ability to bypass the "middleman" (BBTS for the USA) and go for for direct proxies (like amiami, hobbysearch, hlj)or even the specialty shops (comic book shops and Diamond distribution)that we are able to buy "for the Japanese market" only items.

The price IS really different for the Japanese consumer. And please, read a little bit of economic 101. The standard of living do have a big impact on pricing on products. Regardless it be necessities and luxuries like toys.

Plus, the unalienable right of the capiltalist pigs to profit over the backs of thee poor and uneducated masses addicted to plastic crack.

They come from the same factories/same molds etc and still the corporate slugs all eagerly with a maniacal laugh and rubbing their palms together ala "Dr. Evil" and snicker............these stoopid gaijin, they "like" (there is no love in their vocabulary)our products so much, let US price them so high that they will still buy our "plastic crack" in droves.Hahahahahaaha

Btw, iirc, during an interview with one of the engineers involved with MP-Ultra Magnus, the corporate slugs always reminded them not to go overboard and watch the price tag to that effect.

[fenrir72]

At least, based on Canadian price of 60$CAN+tx for a Hasbro leader, the Takara one at Amiami is around 55$CAN.
Add Shipping and the cost OF THE TAKARA IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE HASBRO WITH TAXES.

TAKARA IS SAME PRICE AS HASBRO FOR BETTER PAINTS APS!!!

Once again, privileged Americans live in another world, with their cheaper everything and all-the-time free shipping.

Pax America! The greatest country on Earth! What's not to envy from you? (Well Japan has those used underwear dispenser.....nothing can top that )

[Rated X]

Not sure why the term "Asian market" keeps getting tossed around when Takara only handles the Japanese market while Hasbro Asia covers all of the rest of Asia.

Because thats the excuse Hasbro gives at Botcon pannels when you ask why they cant do cartoon accurate decos and put more paint apps. They never say "Japanese market" because collecting transformable robots is huge all over Asia. They pretty much tell you if youre a kid, buy Hasbro, if youre a collector buy Takara. They pretty much insinuate that more serious collectors live in the Asian hemisphere and thats the reason why Hasbro paint schemes will always stay crappy. They describe Takara as being a "collectors grade" premium figure in America and totally disregard that its being sold in toy stores for little kids in Japan. Alot of stereotyping going on in Hastak corporate about exactly who collects transformers and who just plays with them on the sidewalk. I wonder if Hasbro versions are sold in Japanese toy stores for little kids ? That would help justify the price increase if Japanese consumers had the cheap option available. But somehow I doubt it works that way in Japan. I am fully aware of "Hasbro Asia". Remember Ive been to the Philippines twice. Takara versions are sold in specialty shops at malls and werent hard to find in Manila. The prices were the same as online retailers. And Hasbro stuff was everywhere at about the same prices of TRU in the US. Transformers toys are a lot more popular there than they are here. But thats Manila. I would love for somebody who actually lives in Japan to confirm if Hasbro stuff is widly available for the kids at cheaper prices ? In Japan, is Takara considered to be "collectors grade" or is it the standard version for everyone including kids ?

[REMINATOR]

Normally I'm pro-Takara because of cost and not everything makes it my way (and if it days it takes FOREVER and I end up spending a fair bit in fuel to find them) but in this particular case, I want Minimus Ambus over Alpha Trion.

I'm sort of the same boat too. 99% of the time I'll go for the TTomy, but that red thigh just kill the figure in my eyes when it comes to UM. So Hasbro Version for me despite I want that Alpha Trion over MAmbus. Since I don't like to split the figures and trade MAmbus for A3, MAmbus will stay in UM chest most of the time. He'll never see daylight until convert UM into his alt.mode.

[BlueBefore]

A lot of stereotyping going on in Hastak corporate about exactly who collects transformers and who just plays with them on the sidewalk.

When filthy rich white manchildren complain about how capitalism is oppressing them I can't help but to laugh.

[william-james88]

For all this America rules talk, here's the counter argument written by Americans: